WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.223 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:03.223 --> 00:00:05.640 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: Students come in with opinions already, 00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:07.920 align:middle line:84% and they can say things in a seminar that 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:10.920 align:middle line:84% are based upon just their common knowledge 00:00:10.920 --> 00:00:13.973 align:middle line:90% and not based on the readings. 00:00:13.973 --> 00:00:15.390 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: Today on Chalk Radio, 00:00:15.390 --> 00:00:18.810 align:middle line:84% we're exploring global food production, water, and climate 00:00:18.810 --> 00:00:21.210 align:middle line:84% change, and the challenge of teaching 00:00:21.210 --> 00:00:24.468 align:middle line:84% when polarized opinions come to class. 00:00:24.468 --> 00:00:26.010 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: I'd say generally, 00:00:26.010 --> 00:00:28.440 align:middle line:84% the students learn that most of these issues 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.990 align:middle line:84% are more subtle and complex than they thought 00:00:30.990 --> 00:00:32.890 align:middle line:90% when they came in the class. 00:00:32.890 --> 00:00:36.330 align:middle line:84% So one of the things that happens at the end of the class 00:00:36.330 --> 00:00:39.240 align:middle line:84% is, people's opinions are usually not 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:44.865 align:middle line:84% as polarized as they were in the beginning. 00:00:44.865 --> 00:00:46.740 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: I'm Curt Newton, your guest host 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:48.690 align:middle line:90% for this episode of Chalk Radio. 00:00:48.690 --> 00:00:53.130 align:middle line:84% At MIT, officially, I'm director of MIT OpenCourseWare. 00:00:53.130 --> 00:00:56.950 align:middle line:84% But for so many years at MIT and in my personal life, 00:00:56.950 --> 00:01:00.370 align:middle line:84% I'm also doing a lot of work on climate change. 00:01:00.370 --> 00:01:03.060 align:middle line:84% So when Sarah Hansen, your usual host, 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:06.090 align:middle line:84% lined up this episode dealing with these issues that 00:01:06.090 --> 00:01:10.230 align:middle line:84% are so deeply personal for me around climate change, food 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:13.980 align:middle line:84% systems, and water, and gave me the chance to join in, 00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:16.370 align:middle line:90% I jumped at it. 00:01:16.370 --> 00:01:19.280 align:middle line:84% With prolonged droughts made worse by climate change 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:21.680 align:middle line:84% affecting food production and ecosystems 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:24.380 align:middle line:84% all around the world, this conversation 00:01:24.380 --> 00:01:26.420 align:middle line:90% couldn't be more timely. 00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:30.170 align:middle line:84% Our guest, Dennis McLaughlin, is a professor in MIT'S Civil 00:01:30.170 --> 00:01:32.120 align:middle line:84% and Environmental Engineering department, 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:36.960 align:middle line:84% and he's the instructor for Course 1.74 Land, Water, Food, 00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:38.440 align:middle line:90% and Climate. 00:01:38.440 --> 00:01:41.050 align:middle line:84% Professor McLaughlin's interest in hydrology and what 00:01:41.050 --> 00:01:43.090 align:middle line:84% it can tell us about our food systems 00:01:43.090 --> 00:01:45.540 align:middle line:90% has been years in the making. 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:50.220 align:middle line:84% It all started back in 1991 on a research trip that took him 00:01:50.220 --> 00:01:52.450 align:middle line:90% halfway around the world. 00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:54.360 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: I went to Australia. 00:01:54.360 --> 00:01:56.220 align:middle line:84% And there were a lot of discussions 00:01:56.220 --> 00:02:00.270 align:middle line:84% at the time about what was sustainable food production 00:02:00.270 --> 00:02:03.750 align:middle line:84% and whether or not Australia could grow more food 00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:07.170 align:middle line:84% with limited water and the connection 00:02:07.170 --> 00:02:10.860 align:middle line:84% between the availability of water and the population 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:12.510 align:middle line:90% and food supply. 00:02:12.510 --> 00:02:15.750 align:middle line:84% It struck me as a really interesting application area 00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:18.655 align:middle line:90% for hydrology. 00:02:18.655 --> 00:02:20.280 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: Dennis explained that some 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.310 align:middle line:84% of the big wheat-growing areas were becoming reliant 00:02:23.310 --> 00:02:27.180 align:middle line:84% on irrigation to supplement natural rainfall with water 00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:29.580 align:middle line:84% pumped from underground in order to keep 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:31.680 align:middle line:90% the crop big and healthy. 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.290 align:middle line:84% But over time, all that irrigation 00:02:34.290 --> 00:02:36.688 align:middle line:84% causes salts to build up in the soil. 00:02:36.688 --> 00:02:38.730 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: You could go out in the fields 00:02:38.730 --> 00:02:41.220 align:middle line:84% and see near the irrigation ditches 00:02:41.220 --> 00:02:43.860 align:middle line:84% just white layers of salt accumulating. 00:02:43.860 --> 00:02:45.780 align:middle line:84% It's the same kind of problem that 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:50.440 align:middle line:84% ruined Mesopotamian civilization millennia ago. 00:02:50.440 --> 00:02:53.280 align:middle line:84% And it wasn't like it was a big surprise. 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.190 align:middle line:84% But there was not really a good mechanism 00:02:56.190 --> 00:03:01.770 align:middle line:84% to encourage farmers to hold back on their irrigation. 00:03:01.770 --> 00:03:07.260 align:middle line:84% There was a lot of interest in changing regulations 00:03:07.260 --> 00:03:09.780 align:middle line:84% and incentives for farmers to have 00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:12.330 align:middle line:84% less adverse environmental impact, especially 00:03:12.330 --> 00:03:16.170 align:middle line:84% with salinity, and to make sure that there was enough water 00:03:16.170 --> 00:03:20.040 align:middle line:84% to keep the agriculture economy healthy and going. 00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:22.260 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's not a reasonable solution 00:03:22.260 --> 00:03:24.090 align:middle line:84% to say we won't have any more farming, 00:03:24.090 --> 00:03:27.630 align:middle line:84% and therefore we won't have salt accumulation, and so on. 00:03:27.630 --> 00:03:31.230 align:middle line:84% So it's that balance between sustainable 00:03:31.230 --> 00:03:36.092 align:middle line:84% use and economically productive use that's tricky. 00:03:36.092 --> 00:03:37.800 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: This experience in Australia 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:41.370 align:middle line:84% led to the creation of a course on water usage and agriculture 00:03:41.370 --> 00:03:42.660 align:middle line:90% and food systems. 00:03:42.660 --> 00:03:45.900 align:middle line:84% It was here where Professor McLaughlin recognized 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:49.860 align:middle line:84% that teaching these topics can bring about an extra challenge. 00:03:49.860 --> 00:03:52.110 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: One of the interesting things about 00:03:52.110 --> 00:03:54.630 align:middle line:84% the course, and a challenging thing as a teacher, 00:03:54.630 --> 00:03:57.120 align:middle line:84% is a lot of the topics we talk about-- 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:01.350 align:middle line:84% sort of like talking about climate change, or GMOs, 00:04:01.350 --> 00:04:05.010 align:middle line:84% or food waste, or vegetarianism-- 00:04:05.010 --> 00:04:07.500 align:middle line:84% students come in with opinions already. 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:09.780 align:middle line:84% And they can say things in a seminar that 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.810 align:middle line:84% are based upon just their common knowledge 00:04:12.810 --> 00:04:14.550 align:middle line:90% and not based on the readings. 00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:18.000 align:middle line:84% So for example, in GMOs, the focus of most 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:21.060 align:middle line:84% of the students is, oh, would GMOs hurt me? 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:24.180 align:middle line:84% Human health-- are they going to cause me to have cancer 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:25.920 align:middle line:90% or whatever? 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:29.020 align:middle line:84% And that's really not the scientific perspective 00:04:29.020 --> 00:04:30.990 align:middle line:84% so much in GMOs, because there's almost zero 00:04:30.990 --> 00:04:35.530 align:middle line:84% evidence that any GMOs are harmful to human health. 00:04:35.530 --> 00:04:38.550 align:middle line:84% And they learn that by reading the papers. 00:04:38.550 --> 00:04:40.950 align:middle line:84% The problem is, what do they do to the ecosystem, 00:04:40.950 --> 00:04:43.050 align:middle line:84% and what do they do to other plants 00:04:43.050 --> 00:04:45.060 align:middle line:84% that are not genetically manipulated, 00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:48.360 align:middle line:84% and what are the unintended consequences of GMOs, 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.460 align:middle line:84% because GMOs are generally designed to help the farmer be 00:04:53.460 --> 00:04:55.650 align:middle line:90% more productive. 00:04:55.650 --> 00:04:58.620 align:middle line:84% One of the things that happens at the end of the class is 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:01.110 align:middle line:84% people's opinions are usually not 00:05:01.110 --> 00:05:06.780 align:middle line:84% as polarized as they were in the beginning. 00:05:06.780 --> 00:05:09.090 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: In my own work on climate change, 00:05:09.090 --> 00:05:10.980 align:middle line:84% I've certainly had this experience 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:14.190 align:middle line:84% of trying to have conversations with people coming out 00:05:14.190 --> 00:05:18.370 align:middle line:84% of polarized opinions and preconceived notions. 00:05:18.370 --> 00:05:20.340 align:middle line:84% I was really curious to hear how Dennis 00:05:20.340 --> 00:05:23.670 align:middle line:84% moved beyond that in this class and helped the students have 00:05:23.670 --> 00:05:25.710 align:middle line:84% more productive conversations to view 00:05:25.710 --> 00:05:30.202 align:middle line:84% these sometimes controversial issues from multiple angles. 00:05:30.202 --> 00:05:32.660 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: It's really just an introductory course. 00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:35.000 align:middle line:84% And it's to kind of stimulate interest 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:38.090 align:middle line:84% that they had when they came in and show them 00:05:38.090 --> 00:05:42.500 align:middle line:84% that it is possible to pursue difficult topics by going 00:05:42.500 --> 00:05:43.460 align:middle line:90% to the literature. 00:05:43.460 --> 00:05:46.490 align:middle line:84% Many of them aren't used to reading scientific papers, 00:05:46.490 --> 00:05:48.380 align:middle line:90% the undergraduates especially. 00:05:48.380 --> 00:05:50.000 align:middle line:84% They're used to being lectured to 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.212 align:middle line:90% and things being in textbooks. 00:05:52.212 --> 00:05:54.170 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: And here's where Dennis McLaughlin 00:05:54.170 --> 00:05:55.670 align:middle line:90% gets creative. 00:05:55.670 --> 00:05:58.040 align:middle line:84% For each article he assigns, a student 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.980 align:middle line:84% is asked to present that article to the class. 00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:05.810 align:middle line:84% But Dennis also gives a specific prompt to make sure 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:07.580 align:middle line:84% that these presentations actually 00:06:07.580 --> 00:06:10.067 align:middle line:84% help the students understand the material. 00:06:10.067 --> 00:06:12.150 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: Another challenge in the course 00:06:12.150 --> 00:06:15.170 align:middle line:84% is to make sure that their presentations don't 00:06:15.170 --> 00:06:16.920 align:middle line:90% bore the other students. 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.420 align:middle line:84% So I said, you just have a minute or two, 00:06:20.420 --> 00:06:22.070 align:middle line:84% and you should pose some questions 00:06:22.070 --> 00:06:24.530 align:middle line:84% for the class or some issues and make them 00:06:24.530 --> 00:06:26.630 align:middle line:90% as controversial as possible. 00:06:26.630 --> 00:06:29.240 align:middle line:90% So that's what we try to do. 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.400 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: As controversial as possible? 00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:33.470 align:middle line:84% Wouldn't encouraging controversy just 00:06:33.470 --> 00:06:37.520 align:middle line:84% prevent us from moving beyond polarized opinions? 00:06:37.520 --> 00:06:41.240 align:middle line:84% Dennis went on to explain why controversy really 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.600 align:middle line:84% is productive and important to deal with, especially 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:46.907 align:middle line:84% in science and engineering classrooms. 00:06:46.907 --> 00:06:48.740 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: Another thing they're not 00:06:48.740 --> 00:06:52.370 align:middle line:84% used to, the students, even some of the graduate students, 00:06:52.370 --> 00:06:54.830 align:middle line:90% is scientific controversy. 00:06:54.830 --> 00:06:58.250 align:middle line:84% There's perhaps not that much controversy, ironically, 00:06:58.250 --> 00:07:00.140 align:middle line:90% interestingly, about GMOs. 00:07:00.140 --> 00:07:02.180 align:middle line:84% But there's a lot of controversy about things 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:05.090 align:middle line:84% like organic farming and whether or not 00:07:05.090 --> 00:07:08.060 align:middle line:84% we should be willing to sacrifice yield a bit 00:07:08.060 --> 00:07:10.650 align:middle line:84% to have more sustainable agriculture. 00:07:10.650 --> 00:07:12.650 align:middle line:84% And one of the things we find out in the class 00:07:12.650 --> 00:07:17.330 align:middle line:84% is, many people who are organic farming advocates 00:07:17.330 --> 00:07:21.650 align:middle line:84% are out of the mainstream of the scientific literature. 00:07:21.650 --> 00:07:27.260 align:middle line:84% But when you review the papers on the other side that say, 00:07:27.260 --> 00:07:30.560 align:middle line:84% for example, it's silly to try to continue 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.660 align:middle line:90% smallholder farming in Africa. 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:35.120 align:middle line:84% Africa's agricultural future should 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.590 align:middle line:84% be large, industrial farms, perhaps run by foreigners 00:07:39.590 --> 00:07:41.780 align:middle line:90% who buy or lease the land. 00:07:41.780 --> 00:07:44.270 align:middle line:84% Some people write assessments like that. 00:07:44.270 --> 00:07:45.950 align:middle line:84% And you say, well, yeah, but they're 00:07:45.950 --> 00:07:49.070 align:middle line:84% being funded by the large agricultural industry. 00:07:49.070 --> 00:07:50.930 align:middle line:84% Well, does that mean they're wrong? 00:07:50.930 --> 00:07:51.770 align:middle line:90% Are they biased? 00:07:51.770 --> 00:07:53.540 align:middle line:90% Well, I don't know. 00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:56.090 align:middle line:90% But they become advocates, too. 00:07:56.090 --> 00:07:58.730 align:middle line:84% So the students read the papers, and we 00:07:58.730 --> 00:08:05.240 align:middle line:84% try to discuss both sides of an argument based on the merits. 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.720 align:middle line:84% And I'm not saying students don't get exposure 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:10.070 align:middle line:90% to that kind of thing elsewhere. 00:08:10.070 --> 00:08:11.737 align:middle line:84% But if they're taking physics, and we're 00:08:11.737 --> 00:08:19.058 align:middle line:84% talking about Newton's law, it's not presented as a controversy. 00:08:19.058 --> 00:08:21.320 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: Motivating students to engage 00:08:21.320 --> 00:08:24.800 align:middle line:84% with the scientific literature to unpack controversies 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.200 align:middle line:84% is only part of the work involved in teaching 00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:28.820 align:middle line:90% this engineering course. 00:08:28.820 --> 00:08:33.362 align:middle line:84% There's something else, too, something really important. 00:08:33.362 --> 00:08:34.820 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: It's a challenge 00:08:34.820 --> 00:08:38.299 align:middle line:84% to decide how much effort and discussion 00:08:38.299 --> 00:08:42.470 align:middle line:84% to spend on learning about scientific issues, 00:08:42.470 --> 00:08:47.450 align:middle line:84% scientific controversies, more or less agreed-on facts, 00:08:47.450 --> 00:08:50.240 align:middle line:84% and how much to spend on things like values, 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:53.990 align:middle line:84% because you really can't talk about smallholder farming 00:08:53.990 --> 00:08:56.060 align:middle line:90% unless you talk about poverty. 00:08:56.060 --> 00:08:58.910 align:middle line:84% You can ask questions as to why is the smallholder farmer so 00:08:58.910 --> 00:08:59.450 align:middle line:90% poor? 00:08:59.450 --> 00:09:02.540 align:middle line:84% Why does the smallholder kids not want to stay on the farm? 00:09:02.540 --> 00:09:04.130 align:middle line:90% They want to go to the city. 00:09:04.130 --> 00:09:05.480 align:middle line:90% What do they do in the city? 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:06.980 align:middle line:90% Are there jobs there? 00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:09.440 align:middle line:84% Well, do they have any education? 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:11.330 align:middle line:84% Well, no, because the smallholder farmer 00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:15.360 align:middle line:84% doesn't have enough money to send the child to school. 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.330 align:middle line:84% What about the role of women in farming 00:09:17.330 --> 00:09:19.310 align:middle line:84% and the role of cultural differences 00:09:19.310 --> 00:09:20.960 align:middle line:90% in how women are viewed? 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.590 align:middle line:84% And can they, for example, participate in ownership? 00:09:24.590 --> 00:09:26.330 align:middle line:84% You could just spend the whole semester 00:09:26.330 --> 00:09:29.213 align:middle line:90% talking about this stuff. 00:09:29.213 --> 00:09:31.130 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: Dennis's course attracts students 00:09:31.130 --> 00:09:34.190 align:middle line:84% from a wide variety of disciplines and backgrounds. 00:09:34.190 --> 00:09:37.790 align:middle line:84% And it's this diversity of experiences among the students 00:09:37.790 --> 00:09:41.878 align:middle line:84% that enriches the class for everyone, including Dennis. 00:09:41.878 --> 00:09:43.295 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: I had a student 00:09:43.295 --> 00:09:49.760 align:middle line:84% in the last class who was an art student at Mass College of Art. 00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:54.860 align:middle line:84% And she knew almost nothing about engineering or science, 00:09:54.860 --> 00:09:59.390 align:middle line:84% but she came from Venezuela and settled in Puerto Rico, 00:09:59.390 --> 00:10:01.400 align:middle line:90% and her aunt is a farmer. 00:10:01.400 --> 00:10:06.590 align:middle line:84% And so she talked about how hard it was for Puerto Rican farmers 00:10:06.590 --> 00:10:09.260 align:middle line:84% to be competing with Central American farmers, who 00:10:09.260 --> 00:10:11.870 align:middle line:84% were very poor, who were exporting 00:10:11.870 --> 00:10:13.770 align:middle line:90% produce to Puerto Rico. 00:10:13.770 --> 00:10:16.310 align:middle line:84% So Puerto Rico, this place where you 00:10:16.310 --> 00:10:21.350 align:middle line:84% can grow food all the time, this very productive climate, 00:10:21.350 --> 00:10:25.610 align:middle line:84% is not producing much food for its own residents because 00:10:25.610 --> 00:10:26.510 align:middle line:90% of pricing. 00:10:26.510 --> 00:10:29.660 align:middle line:84% And she actually brought that to the class and talked about it. 00:10:29.660 --> 00:10:32.400 align:middle line:84% And I wouldn't have even thought about it. 00:10:32.400 --> 00:10:35.840 align:middle line:84% So there's this interaction between the students who 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:41.120 align:middle line:84% have had farming experience or just a student from Puerto Rico 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.100 align:middle line:84% who's talking to one from Philadelphia, 00:10:43.100 --> 00:10:46.280 align:middle line:84% and they're both from cities, but they have a much different 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:48.300 align:middle line:90% perspective. 00:10:48.300 --> 00:10:49.850 align:middle line:84% So not only did the other students 00:10:49.850 --> 00:10:53.723 align:middle line:84% learn from these students, but I learned from them. 00:10:53.723 --> 00:10:55.640 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: As you may have picked up by now, 00:10:55.640 --> 00:10:59.190 align:middle line:84% climate change is an important topic in this course. 00:10:59.190 --> 00:11:01.820 align:middle line:84% We asked Dennis how climate change will 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:04.123 align:middle line:90% affect food and agriculture. 00:11:04.123 --> 00:11:06.290 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: Well, that sounds like a question 00:11:06.290 --> 00:11:07.820 align:middle line:90% we could pose in the class. 00:11:07.820 --> 00:11:12.310 align:middle line:84% And we do discuss it through reading papers. 00:11:12.310 --> 00:11:16.400 align:middle line:84% So this is a big topic and a controversial one. 00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:19.780 align:middle line:84% One thing that there seems to be pretty good agreement on 00:11:19.780 --> 00:11:23.680 align:middle line:84% is if climate change increases temperatures 00:11:23.680 --> 00:11:25.870 align:middle line:84% during the growing season sufficiently, that 00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:27.790 align:middle line:90% will hurt agriculture. 00:11:27.790 --> 00:11:31.220 align:middle line:84% But it depends on the crop, depends on the place. 00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:34.540 align:middle line:84% It's a lot different talking about small increases 00:11:34.540 --> 00:11:38.860 align:middle line:84% in average temperature versus large increases 00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:42.820 align:middle line:84% that could actually reduce yield or even kill crops. 00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:47.118 align:middle line:84% So temperature extremes probably won't help. 00:11:47.118 --> 00:11:49.410 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: This course really pushes its participants 00:11:49.410 --> 00:11:51.990 align:middle line:84% to look beyond their own assumptions. 00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:55.290 align:middle line:84% Questions, contradictions, uncertainties-- 00:11:55.290 --> 00:11:58.170 align:middle line:84% those are inevitable when we take on topics as complex 00:11:58.170 --> 00:12:01.480 align:middle line:84% as food, water, and climate change. 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:03.480 align:middle line:84% Professor McLaughlin embraces that 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.000 align:middle line:84% questioning as a core part of the class, 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.058 align:middle line:84% even as he tries to provide some answers. 00:12:09.058 --> 00:12:11.100 align:middle line:84% DENNIS MCLAUGHLIN: Especially undergrads, they're 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:13.830 align:middle line:84% used to going into class and thinking they're learning, 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:16.120 align:middle line:84% quote, facts, and that's the end of the story. 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.880 align:middle line:84% But I view the teacher as kind of adjusting, resetting 00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:24.270 align:middle line:84% the discussion to keep things kind of on track 00:12:24.270 --> 00:12:27.390 align:middle line:90% and consistent with the papers. 00:12:27.390 --> 00:12:31.740 align:middle line:84% But giving the students the freedom to say silly things 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:34.530 align:middle line:84% or to go beyond the scope of the paper 00:12:34.530 --> 00:12:37.110 align:middle line:84% is part of why they like the course. 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:40.530 align:middle line:84% When they learned that there are differences of opinion, 00:12:40.530 --> 00:12:42.660 align:middle line:84% even among experts and that there 00:12:42.660 --> 00:12:45.900 align:middle line:84% are values, value judgments, and that there's 00:12:45.900 --> 00:12:50.260 align:middle line:84% social equity, and all kinds of things-- 00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:54.090 align:middle line:84% they don't even connect that, really, with formal education. 00:12:54.090 --> 00:12:56.190 align:middle line:84% But it's not so easy because, for one thing, 00:12:56.190 --> 00:12:59.230 align:middle line:84% it takes the students off balance a bit. 00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:01.860 align:middle line:84% So it's definitely an art, and you learn it 00:13:01.860 --> 00:13:03.540 align:middle line:90% over multiple times. 00:13:03.540 --> 00:13:06.870 align:middle line:84% You can't just start the very first year 00:13:06.870 --> 00:13:09.120 align:middle line:90% and be perfect on it. 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.240 align:middle line:84% So you have to learn the teaching style as well 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:13.350 align:middle line:90% as the content. 00:13:13.350 --> 00:13:16.812 align:middle line:84% You have to teach yourself how to be observant to what works 00:13:16.812 --> 00:13:17.520 align:middle line:90% and what doesn't. 00:13:17.520 --> 00:13:20.277 align:middle line:90% 00:13:20.277 --> 00:13:22.360 align:middle line:84% CURT NEWTON: Maybe we could all take a page or two 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:25.225 align:middle line:84% from Professor McLaughlin and his students 00:13:25.225 --> 00:13:26.950 align:middle line:84% and get a little more comfortable 00:13:26.950 --> 00:13:30.670 align:middle line:90% being knocked off balance. 00:13:30.670 --> 00:13:33.790 align:middle line:84% Dennis' perspective made me wonder how other educators 00:13:33.790 --> 00:13:35.950 align:middle line:90% handle similar situations. 00:13:35.950 --> 00:13:38.320 align:middle line:84% How do you integrate conversations 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:41.890 align:middle line:84% about values and culture into your science and engineering 00:13:41.890 --> 00:13:45.310 align:middle line:84% courses in a way that feels balanced? 00:13:45.310 --> 00:13:48.760 align:middle line:84% You can share your insights via the link in the show notes. 00:13:48.760 --> 00:13:52.600 align:middle line:84% And we'll pass them along to MIT faculty and listeners, who 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:54.730 align:middle line:84% could incorporate your ideas into their teaching. 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:57.658 align:middle line:90% 00:13:57.658 --> 00:13:59.200 align:middle line:84% If you're interested in learning more 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:01.030 align:middle line:84% about Professor McLaughlin's work 00:14:01.030 --> 00:14:04.450 align:middle line:84% or teaching with his open educational resources, 00:14:04.450 --> 00:14:08.750 align:middle line:84% you can check out his course, 1.74 Land, Water, Food, 00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:12.860 align:middle line:84% and Climate, on our MIT OpenCourseWare website. 00:14:12.860 --> 00:14:17.920 align:middle line:84% It's one of over 150 courses in OCW's extensive environment 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:19.420 align:middle line:90% courses collection. 00:14:19.420 --> 00:14:23.050 align:middle line:84% And for even more, check out the MIT Climate website 00:14:23.050 --> 00:14:27.670 align:middle line:84% at climate.MIT.edu, where you'll find a wealth of material 00:14:27.670 --> 00:14:30.500 align:middle line:90% spanning these topics and more. 00:14:30.500 --> 00:14:32.480 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much for listening. 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.080 align:middle line:84% Until next time, signing off from Cambridge, Massachusetts, 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.740 align:middle line:84% I'm Curt Newton from MIT OpenCourseWare. 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:45.910 align:middle line:84% Chalk Radio's producers include Sarah Hansen, Brett Paci, 00:14:45.910 --> 00:14:47.770 align:middle line:90% and Dave Lishansky. 00:14:47.770 --> 00:14:51.250 align:middle line:84% Scriptwriting assistance from Nidhi Shastri. 00:14:51.250 --> 00:14:55.090 align:middle line:84% Show notes for this episode were written by Peter Chipman. 00:14:55.090 --> 00:14:58.330 align:middle line:84% We're funded by MIT Open Learning and supporters 00:14:58.330 --> 00:14:58.960 align:middle line:90% like you. 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:03.210 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:08.412 align:middle line:90%