WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.979 align:middle line:90% [SQUEAKING] 00:00:01.979 --> 00:00:03.951 align:middle line:90% [RUSTLING] 00:00:03.951 --> 00:00:06.416 align:middle line:90% [CLICKING] 00:00:06.416 --> 00:00:09.880 align:middle line:90% 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:12.360 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Well, as you saw in the first day, when 00:00:12.360 --> 00:00:15.240 align:middle line:84% I talked about new ventures and the elements 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.480 align:middle line:84% that have to come together to have a successful venture, 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:21.200 align:middle line:84% and Bob also said it's the people 00:00:21.200 --> 00:00:24.580 align:middle line:84% issues that tend to sink ventures more often than not. 00:00:24.580 --> 00:00:26.880 align:middle line:84% It's not the technology, it's not the funding, 00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:28.220 align:middle line:90% it's people issues. 00:00:28.220 --> 00:00:30.480 align:middle line:84% So it seems very important then that we 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:34.520 align:middle line:84% have something that talks about people issues and organizations. 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:39.040 align:middle line:84% And tonight we have a panel, unfortunately, one of whom 00:00:39.040 --> 00:00:41.120 align:middle line:90% is sick and not able to come. 00:00:41.120 --> 00:00:44.320 align:middle line:84% But Vivian Vitale is our moderator. 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.760 align:middle line:90% I met Vivian a few years ago. 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:51.160 align:middle line:84% I'm on the board of a public company that is still 00:00:51.160 --> 00:00:54.280 align:middle line:90% run by one of the founders. 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:57.220 align:middle line:84% I'm chair of the Nomination and Governance Committee. 00:00:57.220 --> 00:01:00.950 align:middle line:84% So when we were looking to expand the board, 00:01:00.950 --> 00:01:02.810 align:middle line:84% that was what our committee does. 00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:05.830 align:middle line:84% So after doing a search, et cetera, we had some candidates 00:01:05.830 --> 00:01:08.110 align:middle line:90% and I met with Vivian. 00:01:08.110 --> 00:01:11.050 align:middle line:84% And it became clear pretty soon, pretty soon, 00:01:11.050 --> 00:01:14.510 align:middle line:84% in talking to her that she was a great candidate for a founders-- 00:01:14.510 --> 00:01:17.550 align:middle line:84% for any company, but a founder one, in particular. 00:01:17.550 --> 00:01:22.110 align:middle line:84% I remember we talked about the things you had worked on 00:01:22.110 --> 00:01:25.390 align:middle line:84% as senior management, and at least two of the three 00:01:25.390 --> 00:01:27.450 align:middle line:84% you worked on, I think I knew the founders, 00:01:27.450 --> 00:01:30.070 align:middle line:84% and I think I had incorporated one of those companies. 00:01:30.070 --> 00:01:36.170 align:middle line:84% And so the idea that we'd have a board member with HR experience, 00:01:36.170 --> 00:01:38.310 align:middle line:84% organization experience, that knows 00:01:38.310 --> 00:01:42.550 align:middle line:84% how to deal with a founder-led company that was growing 00:01:42.550 --> 00:01:43.530 align:middle line:90% seemed really great. 00:01:43.530 --> 00:01:46.030 align:middle line:84% So I couldn't think of a better candidate 00:01:46.030 --> 00:01:47.770 align:middle line:90% to put this panel together. 00:01:47.770 --> 00:01:50.070 align:middle line:84% And last year, I did the dope slap and said, 00:01:50.070 --> 00:01:51.250 align:middle line:90% Vivian's the person. 00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:54.790 align:middle line:84% And I convinced her-- again, with our highly paid 00:01:54.790 --> 00:01:58.740 align:middle line:84% compensation, these beautiful water bottles. 00:01:58.740 --> 00:02:02.680 align:middle line:84% And Vivian assembled a panel of other people 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:05.180 align:middle line:84% that she thought would be useful in the organization, people 00:02:05.180 --> 00:02:06.060 align:middle line:90% issues. 00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:08.120 align:middle line:84% And so I'm going to turn it over to Vivian, 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:12.160 align:middle line:84% and we're going to-- we want to make it interactive. 00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:15.540 align:middle line:84% So if you have questions, we hope you have a bunch. 00:02:15.540 --> 00:02:16.520 align:middle line:90% Put your hands up. 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:18.760 align:middle line:90% We'll have the mics run around. 00:02:18.760 --> 00:02:21.260 align:middle line:84% We do have some questions sort of pre-canned. 00:02:21.260 --> 00:02:25.580 align:middle line:84% But if you have some issues, just 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:28.020 align:middle line:84% say them and we'll see what we can do with them. 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:31.180 align:middle line:84% So without further ado, Vivian, thank you once again. 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:32.732 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:02:32.732 --> 00:02:36.200 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: We did this last year and we really enjoyed it. 00:02:36.200 --> 00:02:38.820 align:middle line:84% And what made it really great was 00:02:38.820 --> 00:02:40.440 align:middle line:90% people were very interactive. 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:43.380 align:middle line:84% And we do have questions that people have submitted here ahead 00:02:43.380 --> 00:02:45.860 align:middle line:90% of time, but this can-- 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:47.780 align:middle line:84% I think it might work best freeform 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:51.460 align:middle line:84% with people raising their hands and what you want to talk about, 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:56.730 align:middle line:84% the areas that, as many people are building their companies 00:02:56.730 --> 00:02:59.130 align:middle line:84% are interested in, and really what you 00:02:59.130 --> 00:03:02.075 align:middle line:90% do as a founder, early stage. 00:03:02.075 --> 00:03:03.450 align:middle line:84% What are the things that you need 00:03:03.450 --> 00:03:07.550 align:middle line:84% to do in terms of building your organization? 00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:09.070 align:middle line:90% How do you hire people? 00:03:09.070 --> 00:03:10.230 align:middle line:90% How do you pay people? 00:03:10.230 --> 00:03:11.790 align:middle line:90% How do you deal with problems? 00:03:11.790 --> 00:03:13.930 align:middle line:84% All those, hopefully, we'll be able to touch on 00:03:13.930 --> 00:03:15.070 align:middle line:90% with you tonight. 00:03:15.070 --> 00:03:17.810 align:middle line:90% We have different experiences. 00:03:17.810 --> 00:03:20.030 align:middle line:84% I'll tell you a little bit about my experience. 00:03:20.030 --> 00:03:22.590 align:middle line:90% I worked many, many years. 00:03:22.590 --> 00:03:26.070 align:middle line:84% Right now, I'm not working full-time anymore. 00:03:26.070 --> 00:03:29.170 align:middle line:84% I have a small consulting practice 00:03:29.170 --> 00:03:32.550 align:middle line:84% where I do really just the work that I like to do, 00:03:32.550 --> 00:03:35.130 align:middle line:84% which is working with people building their business 00:03:35.130 --> 00:03:37.470 align:middle line:84% or helping people grow in their roles, 00:03:37.470 --> 00:03:40.790 align:middle line:84% particularly when someone is new to a position, 00:03:40.790 --> 00:03:45.030 align:middle line:84% particularly if they're working in an HR or people function. 00:03:45.030 --> 00:03:48.370 align:middle line:84% I like to help people get started doing that. 00:03:48.370 --> 00:03:52.470 align:middle line:84% And then I'm on two public company boards with Joe. 00:03:52.470 --> 00:03:54.200 align:middle line:84% I'm on the NETSCOUT system board-- 00:03:54.200 --> 00:03:56.700 align:middle line:90% God bless you, over there-- 00:03:56.700 --> 00:03:58.760 align:middle line:90% and also Progress Software. 00:03:58.760 --> 00:04:02.200 align:middle line:84% And then I also work on a couple of nonprofits. 00:04:02.200 --> 00:04:06.200 align:middle line:84% I work on Entrepreneurship for All, which some people may know 00:04:06.200 --> 00:04:11.920 align:middle line:84% about, works outside the Boston area helping entrepreneurs 00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:15.780 align:middle line:84% get going and help them get their business launched. 00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:18.440 align:middle line:84% And then I work with a company, an organization 00:04:18.440 --> 00:04:21.600 align:middle line:84% called Family Services of Merrimack Valley, which 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.800 align:middle line:84% is a nonprofit that helps the disadvantaged in the greater 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:27.047 align:middle line:90% Lawrence area. 00:04:27.047 --> 00:04:28.380 align:middle line:90% So that's a little bit about me. 00:04:28.380 --> 00:04:30.800 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to turn it over to my colleagues here. 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:32.520 align:middle line:84% We've worked together before, and I 00:04:32.520 --> 00:04:34.800 align:middle line:84% thought that they would be able to provide 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:36.680 align:middle line:84% a different view of some of the questions 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:38.180 align:middle line:84% you might have that I might have. 00:04:38.180 --> 00:04:40.620 align:middle line:84% And I think really highly of them, 00:04:40.620 --> 00:04:42.620 align:middle line:84% and I know that they'll offer a lot tonight. 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:44.360 align:middle line:90% So start with Kim here. 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.200 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: Hi, so I'm Kim Crowley. 00:04:46.200 --> 00:04:48.480 align:middle line:84% I have I've had the pleasure of working 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.070 align:middle line:84% for Viv as one of my first bosses 00:04:52.070 --> 00:04:53.730 align:middle line:90% in my career, my HR career. 00:04:53.730 --> 00:04:56.130 align:middle line:90% So 25 years of HR experience-- 00:04:56.130 --> 00:04:59.270 align:middle line:84% I am a VP of HR with Thermo Fisher Scientific. 00:04:59.270 --> 00:05:01.590 align:middle line:90% I started with them in 2010. 00:05:01.590 --> 00:05:04.330 align:middle line:84% I sidestepped and went to a much smaller company, 00:05:04.330 --> 00:05:07.070 align:middle line:84% a few years ago by the name of Azenta Life Sciences, who 00:05:07.070 --> 00:05:09.830 align:middle line:84% I've always really kind of grown up in much more of the life 00:05:09.830 --> 00:05:11.670 align:middle line:90% science industry. 00:05:11.670 --> 00:05:14.170 align:middle line:84% I did go back to Thermo Fisher, so they are now. 00:05:14.170 --> 00:05:18.190 align:middle line:90% 00:05:18.190 --> 00:05:21.630 align:middle line:84% On the flip side, while Viv has had smaller companies, 00:05:21.630 --> 00:05:23.910 align:middle line:84% co-founders, I've been on the flip side of it 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.270 align:middle line:84% with larger companies as we start 00:05:26.270 --> 00:05:29.110 align:middle line:84% to look-- very acquisitive companies-- start 00:05:29.110 --> 00:05:30.250 align:middle line:90% to look at acquisitions. 00:05:30.250 --> 00:05:31.750 align:middle line:90% What do we look for? 00:05:31.750 --> 00:05:35.790 align:middle line:84% How do we handle different scenarios? 00:05:35.790 --> 00:05:39.130 align:middle line:84% And how do we introduce them into a larger company? 00:05:39.130 --> 00:05:43.270 align:middle line:84% So I'm very happy to be here and looking forward 00:05:43.270 --> 00:05:47.390 align:middle line:90% to the conversation. 00:05:47.390 --> 00:05:48.430 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: Hi. 00:05:48.430 --> 00:05:50.490 align:middle line:90% I'm Michelle Bonenfant. 00:05:50.490 --> 00:05:54.030 align:middle line:84% I too am very happy to be here with you today. 00:05:54.030 --> 00:05:58.610 align:middle line:84% So, similar to Kim, I started my career working for Vivian. 00:05:58.610 --> 00:06:01.350 align:middle line:84% She was one of my first, I call, real bosses 00:06:01.350 --> 00:06:04.710 align:middle line:84% when I was toying with following in the legal field 00:06:04.710 --> 00:06:08.670 align:middle line:84% or if I would head into technology. 00:06:08.670 --> 00:06:13.790 align:middle line:84% My career has spanned high tech, so I have spent all of my space 00:06:13.790 --> 00:06:15.030 align:middle line:90% in high tech. 00:06:15.030 --> 00:06:18.990 align:middle line:84% I currently am the Senior Director of Global People 00:06:18.990 --> 00:06:24.190 align:middle line:84% Operations for Quickbase, but I pivoted away from HR 00:06:24.190 --> 00:06:25.910 align:middle line:90% for a number of years. 00:06:25.910 --> 00:06:28.250 align:middle line:84% So although I started in that space, 00:06:28.250 --> 00:06:30.970 align:middle line:84% I had an aptitude for technology, 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:34.710 align:middle line:84% and I leaned into the go to market space 00:06:34.710 --> 00:06:38.510 align:middle line:84% with a human capital management organization. 00:06:38.510 --> 00:06:42.750 align:middle line:90% I worked for Ultimate Software. 00:06:42.750 --> 00:06:47.340 align:middle line:84% They merged with a company called Kronos to become UKG. 00:06:47.340 --> 00:06:50.300 align:middle line:84% And I had the privilege of working 00:06:50.300 --> 00:06:53.580 align:middle line:90% with hundreds of companies-- 00:06:53.580 --> 00:06:55.800 align:middle line:84% small companies, midsize companies, 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.380 align:middle line:84% large companies-- operationally, to understand 00:06:59.380 --> 00:07:03.800 align:middle line:84% their infrastructure and how to set them up for success. 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.820 align:middle line:84% So I'm happy to be here with you today. 00:07:06.820 --> 00:07:10.820 align:middle line:84% I'm happy to share the learnings that I found along the way. 00:07:10.820 --> 00:07:13.260 align:middle line:84% I've participated in many different mergers 00:07:13.260 --> 00:07:16.660 align:middle line:84% and acquisitions of small companies, large companies, 00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:19.700 align:middle line:84% and really put that infrastructure in place. 00:07:19.700 --> 00:07:20.660 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Good. 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:22.300 align:middle line:90% Thank you very much. 00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:27.700 align:middle line:84% So I'll just tell you a little bit about how I always 00:07:27.700 --> 00:07:29.700 align:middle line:90% approached my work. 00:07:29.700 --> 00:07:33.420 align:middle line:84% I never, ever thought I wanted to work in a capacity 00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:38.340 align:middle line:84% where I would be doing people or HR work, 00:07:38.340 --> 00:07:41.440 align:middle line:84% but I started out really more in public relations, 00:07:41.440 --> 00:07:43.260 align:middle line:90% marketing, and what have you. 00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:47.290 align:middle line:84% But I just I ended up being a person 00:07:47.290 --> 00:07:50.090 align:middle line:84% where people came to for advice and counsel, 00:07:50.090 --> 00:07:53.170 align:middle line:84% and I started to see that you could really 00:07:53.170 --> 00:07:57.850 align:middle line:84% help people and help people be more effective by providing 00:07:57.850 --> 00:08:00.810 align:middle line:84% clarity often around what needed to be done, 00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:04.610 align:middle line:84% or even just explaining a policy that I 00:08:04.610 --> 00:08:05.830 align:middle line:90% might know something about. 00:08:05.830 --> 00:08:08.510 align:middle line:84% I was the writer in the company I worked for initially, 00:08:08.510 --> 00:08:12.970 align:middle line:84% and so in addition to doing some of the public relations work 00:08:12.970 --> 00:08:15.290 align:middle line:84% that I did, I ended up writing kind 00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:18.450 align:middle line:84% of the onboarding materials and the company manuals 00:08:18.450 --> 00:08:19.690 align:middle line:90% and all of that. 00:08:19.690 --> 00:08:23.810 align:middle line:84% And so I got to see that you could just 00:08:23.810 --> 00:08:28.410 align:middle line:84% have such an impact by helping people realize what 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:32.450 align:middle line:84% organizations wanted them to do, but also helping facilitate 00:08:32.450 --> 00:08:35.049 align:middle line:90% them to be successful. 00:08:35.049 --> 00:08:39.090 align:middle line:90% And I was very fortunate in-- 00:08:39.090 --> 00:08:42.210 align:middle line:84% I grew companies in the companies that I worked for, 00:08:42.210 --> 00:08:46.620 align:middle line:84% and I shared similar values with the founders of those companies, 00:08:46.620 --> 00:08:48.060 align:middle line:90% the leaders of those companies. 00:08:48.060 --> 00:08:50.560 align:middle line:84% And it's my belief that that's what 00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:52.500 align:middle line:84% helped make those companies successful. 00:08:52.500 --> 00:08:56.400 align:middle line:84% Certainly, it was the products and it was the right market. 00:08:56.400 --> 00:09:00.320 align:middle line:84% But when you have the right combination of people 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.600 align:middle line:84% with similar values and similar goals 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:09.160 align:middle line:84% and you put those together, you can, work miracles. 00:09:09.160 --> 00:09:14.200 align:middle line:84% And so I'd like to see what questions you may have, 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:16.960 align:middle line:84% as those of you that are thinking about starting 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.200 align:middle line:84% your business or have a business or things that you'd 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:23.320 align:middle line:84% like to know about, we have different points of view. 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:25.840 align:middle line:84% Kim has definitely seen it at scale. 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:27.780 align:middle line:84% Michelle has done both sides of it. 00:09:27.780 --> 00:09:31.080 align:middle line:84% As she mentioned, she understands a lot more 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.160 align:middle line:84% about technology than probably Kim or I do. 00:09:35.160 --> 00:09:40.080 align:middle line:84% But I think that she also has seen different companies 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:42.910 align:middle line:84% through growth and acquisition as I have as well. 00:09:42.910 --> 00:09:45.630 align:middle line:84% So hopefully, we can help you with things 00:09:45.630 --> 00:09:49.470 align:middle line:84% that you want to talk about tonight. 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:51.770 align:middle line:84% So I don't know if anybody wants to start off, 00:09:51.770 --> 00:09:53.690 align:middle line:84% or I can read off one of the questions here 00:09:53.690 --> 00:09:55.190 align:middle line:90% and we can give you some-- 00:09:55.190 --> 00:09:56.810 align:middle line:90% we can start from there. 00:09:56.810 --> 00:09:59.510 align:middle line:90% 00:09:59.510 --> 00:10:00.343 align:middle line:90% How about I do that? 00:10:00.343 --> 00:10:01.343 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: We got one. 00:10:01.343 --> 00:10:02.830 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: OK, got a question. 00:10:02.830 --> 00:10:04.270 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I'll get it started. 00:10:04.270 --> 00:10:08.870 align:middle line:84% So culture is key, Especially-- at any size of business. 00:10:08.870 --> 00:10:10.270 align:middle line:90% When do you bring in HR? 00:10:10.270 --> 00:10:11.010 align:middle line:90% At what point? 00:10:11.010 --> 00:10:12.710 align:middle line:90% So let's say you're [INAUDIBLE]. 00:10:12.710 --> 00:10:18.550 align:middle line:84% When should we start thinking of that HR quotient, 00:10:18.550 --> 00:10:21.950 align:middle line:84% in order to keep that DNA that you 00:10:21.950 --> 00:10:25.430 align:middle line:84% have with maybe those co-founders, that special spark 00:10:25.430 --> 00:10:27.790 align:middle line:84% that you want to instill in the company, 00:10:27.790 --> 00:10:32.790 align:middle line:84% how do you ensure that result, even with investors coming on? 00:10:32.790 --> 00:10:35.430 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: OK I think that whenever 00:10:35.430 --> 00:10:40.100 align:middle line:84% you're starting anything, I think if it's your product 00:10:40.100 --> 00:10:42.420 align:middle line:90% or if it's your company-- 00:10:42.420 --> 00:10:44.457 align:middle line:84% typically, maybe you're doing that on your own. 00:10:44.457 --> 00:10:47.040 align:middle line:84% But most likely, you're doing it with one or two other people, 00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:48.340 align:middle line:90% at least to start. 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:51.580 align:middle line:84% I think it's important for you to talk about what's 00:10:51.580 --> 00:10:55.660 align:middle line:84% important to you and to make sure that the people 00:10:55.660 --> 00:10:57.678 align:middle line:84% that you're working with-- particularly, 00:10:57.678 --> 00:10:59.220 align:middle line:84% I've been in situations where there's 00:10:59.220 --> 00:11:04.660 align:middle line:84% been co-founders, co-founders that co-managed 00:11:04.660 --> 00:11:08.300 align:middle line:84% and built their companies from there. 00:11:08.300 --> 00:11:13.500 align:middle line:84% Having alignment, I think, around what's important to you-- 00:11:13.500 --> 00:11:15.740 align:middle line:84% important around what you're trying 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:18.340 align:middle line:84% to develop in terms of the quality 00:11:18.340 --> 00:11:20.140 align:middle line:90% that you want to put into it. 00:11:20.140 --> 00:11:23.540 align:middle line:84% What are the values around what you're producing? 00:11:23.540 --> 00:11:27.460 align:middle line:84% And then how do you operate together? 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:30.620 align:middle line:90% What things are important? 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:35.900 align:middle line:84% Trust is something that gets built over time. 00:11:35.900 --> 00:11:38.810 align:middle line:84% If you're going into business with someone, hopefully that you 00:11:38.810 --> 00:11:41.770 align:middle line:84% have some measure of trust or understanding there, but I think 00:11:41.770 --> 00:11:44.250 align:middle line:90% it starts very early. 00:11:44.250 --> 00:11:47.930 align:middle line:84% And I think whoever builds that organization, 00:11:47.930 --> 00:11:52.370 align:middle line:84% he or she being conscious about it from the beginning, 00:11:52.370 --> 00:11:56.010 align:middle line:84% particularly if it's something you want to grow and expand, 00:11:56.010 --> 00:11:58.290 align:middle line:84% you're going to create an environment 00:11:58.290 --> 00:12:01.070 align:middle line:84% and you're going to create a livelihood, 00:12:01.070 --> 00:12:03.230 align:middle line:84% hopefully for yourself and for others. 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:05.690 align:middle line:84% You want to make sure that has elements 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:08.570 align:middle line:84% that not only are sustainable, but also things 00:12:08.570 --> 00:12:11.490 align:middle line:90% that you believe in. 00:12:11.490 --> 00:12:12.570 align:middle line:90% In terms of where-- 00:12:12.570 --> 00:12:14.550 align:middle line:90% I think you start that early on. 00:12:14.550 --> 00:12:20.030 align:middle line:84% And then I think, when you bring people into an organization-- 00:12:20.030 --> 00:12:23.530 align:middle line:84% I did consulting with companies that were really small. 00:12:23.530 --> 00:12:27.410 align:middle line:84% I used to say that my rule of thumb 00:12:27.410 --> 00:12:31.730 align:middle line:90% was around 50 people or more. 00:12:31.730 --> 00:12:36.160 align:middle line:84% You needed some help in that area. 00:12:36.160 --> 00:12:37.900 align:middle line:84% It could be maybe somebody outside. 00:12:37.900 --> 00:12:40.740 align:middle line:90% It could be an advisor. 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:43.220 align:middle line:90% It could be family. 00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:45.960 align:middle line:84% You need somebody outside your circle 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:49.060 align:middle line:84% to help you figure out how to structure, 00:12:49.060 --> 00:12:52.142 align:middle line:84% to help you figure out how to build your business. 00:12:52.142 --> 00:12:54.100 align:middle line:84% And maybe it's even a little smaller than that, 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:58.280 align:middle line:84% depending on what the nature of the work is that you have. 00:12:58.280 --> 00:13:02.160 align:middle line:84% And then I think, as you go through it, 00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:07.860 align:middle line:84% how you hire is probably one of the most important things, 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:10.080 align:middle line:84% whether you're a small company, or whether you're 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:11.280 align:middle line:90% a large company. 00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:14.240 align:middle line:84% What that process is, and how you vet people, 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.920 align:middle line:84% and how you treat people in that process-- 00:13:16.920 --> 00:13:19.480 align:middle line:84% whether or not you hire them or not-- 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:23.540 align:middle line:84% is all a part of creating that culture. 00:13:23.540 --> 00:13:28.320 align:middle line:84% And I also think that, early on, it's important for companies 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:32.000 align:middle line:90% to have a cadence just like-- 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.070 align:middle line:84% I had one boss that used to say that managing 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:37.990 align:middle line:90% was often parenting. 00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:40.830 align:middle line:84% So sometimes if you have regular routines around how 00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:43.370 align:middle line:84% you do things, it becomes predictable, 00:13:43.370 --> 00:13:47.870 align:middle line:84% but it also gives people a sense of security. 00:13:47.870 --> 00:13:51.150 align:middle line:84% You do that as you parent, but you also do that when you manage 00:13:51.150 --> 00:13:54.590 align:middle line:90% and you build an organization. 00:13:54.590 --> 00:13:58.530 align:middle line:84% And then I think, as you go through that, you go through, 00:13:58.530 --> 00:13:59.990 align:middle line:90% a lot of-- 00:13:59.990 --> 00:14:01.790 align:middle line:90% you make mistakes. 00:14:01.790 --> 00:14:05.050 align:middle line:84% Sometimes they're hiring mistakes. 00:14:05.050 --> 00:14:08.650 align:middle line:84% Sometimes they're directional mistakes. 00:14:08.650 --> 00:14:12.710 align:middle line:84% And having the ability with your team 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:16.520 align:middle line:84% to figure out how to move on from that, 00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:18.570 align:middle line:84% you start to create the environment. 00:14:18.570 --> 00:14:20.910 align:middle line:84% And then you build upon it from there. 00:14:20.910 --> 00:14:23.390 align:middle line:90% And I think it changed. 00:14:23.390 --> 00:14:25.630 align:middle line:84% The largest growth I saw was probably 00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:30.630 align:middle line:84% from a company of 55 people to probably around-- 00:14:30.630 --> 00:14:34.320 align:middle line:84% I guess we were about 2,000 people when RSA was sold. 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:38.860 align:middle line:84% I worked at a company called RSA Security that was bought by EMC. 00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:42.660 align:middle line:84% At each stage of growth, it was sometimes a different company 00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:44.660 align:middle line:90% and you needed different things. 00:14:44.660 --> 00:14:48.740 align:middle line:84% But I think what was important is we came back to the values 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:51.980 align:middle line:84% that we had around how we wanted to run our business, 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:56.320 align:middle line:84% how we wanted to treat one another, what was important, 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.500 align:middle line:90% what we measured. 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:02.060 align:middle line:84% I would say the organizations that worked best for me 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:07.300 align:middle line:84% and the ones that I was most proud to be associated with, 00:15:07.300 --> 00:15:09.580 align:middle line:84% were the ones that were organizations 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:15.820 align:middle line:84% of high achievement, but also human kindness. 00:15:15.820 --> 00:15:21.860 align:middle line:84% And I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. 00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:22.960 align:middle line:90% Very high standards. 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.780 align:middle line:84% I think that you don't compromise those. 00:15:25.780 --> 00:15:28.980 align:middle line:84% But I do think that you still can have a how. 00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:31.610 align:middle line:84% And even if you have the tough things that you have to do 00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:37.130 align:middle line:84% in an organization-- we were just talking about that now-- 00:15:37.130 --> 00:15:39.730 align:middle line:84% there's a how in terms you can treat people, even 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:42.110 align:middle line:84% if you have to make a change in the organization 00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:44.210 align:middle line:84% or if you had to do a workforce reduction 00:15:44.210 --> 00:15:48.210 align:middle line:84% or whatever the case may be, where you can still treat people 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:51.750 align:middle line:84% with respect and kindness, even in difficult times. 00:15:51.750 --> 00:15:54.070 align:middle line:84% So my point of view on that question. 00:15:54.070 --> 00:15:57.250 align:middle line:84% I'll ask these guys to jump in a little bit. 00:15:57.250 --> 00:16:00.330 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: I think you asked the question also 00:16:00.330 --> 00:16:01.510 align:middle line:90% around culture. 00:16:01.510 --> 00:16:05.970 align:middle line:84% And I think when you think about how do you build culture 00:16:05.970 --> 00:16:08.830 align:middle line:84% and how you maintain that as you start your organization, 00:16:08.830 --> 00:16:11.290 align:middle line:84% it's really building that foundation, so even just 00:16:11.290 --> 00:16:13.390 align:middle line:84% as simple as like, what is your mission statement, 00:16:13.390 --> 00:16:16.970 align:middle line:84% and something that I think you in the core leadership team 00:16:16.970 --> 00:16:20.210 align:middle line:84% can build upon so that you re-emphasize 00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:21.930 align:middle line:90% that as you continue to grow. 00:16:21.930 --> 00:16:23.230 align:middle line:90% What is your mission? 00:16:23.230 --> 00:16:27.170 align:middle line:84% What was it that you were set out to accomplish? 00:16:27.170 --> 00:16:30.570 align:middle line:84% And even a company like Thermo Fisher is at the 130,000 00:16:30.570 --> 00:16:31.230 align:middle line:90% employees. 00:16:31.230 --> 00:16:34.730 align:middle line:84% Our mission is to make the world healthier, cleaner, safer. 00:16:34.730 --> 00:16:39.050 align:middle line:84% And why it is so critical and it's so important is 00:16:39.050 --> 00:16:41.650 align:middle line:84% because even on our worst days, when I'm trying to motivate 00:16:41.650 --> 00:16:45.210 align:middle line:84% finance professionals-- how do you contribute to the overall 00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:47.210 align:middle line:90% culture of the organization-- 00:16:47.210 --> 00:16:51.630 align:middle line:84% it comes down to a patient and saving lives. 00:16:51.630 --> 00:16:54.590 align:middle line:84% And the patient becomes your family member. 00:16:54.590 --> 00:16:59.710 align:middle line:84% It's your mother, your brother, your sister, your child. 00:16:59.710 --> 00:17:01.070 align:middle line:90% That's what culture does. 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:04.690 align:middle line:84% It brings you back and it makes-- 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:08.690 align:middle line:84% for you as entrepreneurs, it makes your mission 00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:11.730 align:middle line:84% and what you're trying to do just as 00:17:11.730 --> 00:17:14.490 align:middle line:84% important to your employees as it is to you. 00:17:14.490 --> 00:17:19.130 align:middle line:84% So you use that as a tool to motivate your workforce, 00:17:19.130 --> 00:17:21.589 align:middle line:90% but also to attract your talent. 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:26.800 align:middle line:84% So what I've noticed growing up in HR over the past couple 00:17:26.800 --> 00:17:30.160 align:middle line:84% of decades is that the younger generations, 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.500 align:middle line:84% they want something that they can connect to. 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:36.040 align:middle line:84% They want to know that what they're doing is symbolic 00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:37.460 align:middle line:90% and it's important to them. 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:39.680 align:middle line:84% And so when you think about culture and how 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.680 align:middle line:84% do you articulate your culture and what you're trying to do, 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.060 align:middle line:84% keep that in mind, and how do you do that. 00:17:46.060 --> 00:17:54.400 align:middle line:84% And you leverage that brand for your people purposes, as well. 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.500 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: I agree with what Kim stated. 00:17:57.500 --> 00:17:59.720 align:middle line:84% So I was actually focusing on the culture piece 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.000 align:middle line:90% of the question that you asked. 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.280 align:middle line:84% I can tell you that one of the companies that I 00:18:05.280 --> 00:18:09.960 align:middle line:84% am most proud to have worked for and worked with 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:14.040 align:middle line:84% started relatively small with a problem. 00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:17.600 align:middle line:84% The founder worked for ADP and he 00:18:17.600 --> 00:18:20.780 align:middle line:84% was unhappy with how things were being processed. 00:18:20.780 --> 00:18:22.320 align:middle line:90% He was a salesperson. 00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:27.310 align:middle line:84% He thought he had a better way to create a product 00:18:27.310 --> 00:18:29.050 align:middle line:90% that companies could use. 00:18:29.050 --> 00:18:32.830 align:middle line:84% And so he took himself and a gentleman 00:18:32.830 --> 00:18:39.470 align:middle line:84% that he worked with and, just really kind out of his garage, 00:18:39.470 --> 00:18:43.070 align:middle line:84% started a product with his brother, who 00:18:43.070 --> 00:18:44.830 align:middle line:90% was more the technical piece. 00:18:44.830 --> 00:18:50.630 align:middle line:84% But I think, what I admired most about their philosophy 00:18:50.630 --> 00:18:54.490 align:middle line:84% and how they approached it, they really cared about people. 00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:56.070 align:middle line:90% It was people first. 00:18:56.070 --> 00:18:59.690 align:middle line:84% And the motto was that, if you took care of your people, 00:18:59.690 --> 00:19:02.070 align:middle line:84% your people would take care of your customers, 00:19:02.070 --> 00:19:03.970 align:middle line:84% and everything else would work out. 00:19:03.970 --> 00:19:07.270 align:middle line:84% And it seems very simple, but it was true. 00:19:07.270 --> 00:19:09.910 align:middle line:90% And he never shied from that. 00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:15.690 align:middle line:84% He didn't formally hire an HR person to run the business. 00:19:15.690 --> 00:19:20.830 align:middle line:84% But what he did do was, he hired people who believed in people. 00:19:20.830 --> 00:19:22.480 align:middle line:90% And they were hard workers. 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.100 align:middle line:90% They were really high achievers. 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:26.900 align:middle line:84% And then, naturally, what happened 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:33.020 align:middle line:84% was people kind of gravitated to the roles within the business 00:19:33.020 --> 00:19:36.780 align:middle line:84% that they had their strengths and weaknesses with. 00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:41.100 align:middle line:84% And then he hired, over time, where there were gaps. 00:19:41.100 --> 00:19:43.900 align:middle line:84% But the philosophy never changed. 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:49.620 align:middle line:84% And watching that company from a very small number of people 00:19:49.620 --> 00:19:55.980 align:middle line:84% in revenue to expand to be a significant number of people 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:59.340 align:middle line:90% revenue and ultimately sold-- 00:19:59.340 --> 00:20:01.940 align:middle line:90% it was public at one point. 00:20:01.940 --> 00:20:03.360 align:middle line:90% It became private. 00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:07.420 align:middle line:84% It was then picked up and bought by a private equity firm that 00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:11.360 align:middle line:84% basically wanted it for 20 years, 00:20:11.360 --> 00:20:13.460 align:middle line:84% and they weren't willing to sell it 00:20:13.460 --> 00:20:16.280 align:middle line:84% because of the people and their connection. 00:20:16.280 --> 00:20:18.220 align:middle line:84% The profitability was extraordinary 00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:21.810 align:middle line:84% and it was shared throughout the organization. 00:20:21.810 --> 00:20:24.310 align:middle line:90% So I think Kim is right. 00:20:24.310 --> 00:20:27.630 align:middle line:84% I think that you have to have a mission statement. 00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:30.530 align:middle line:84% You have to have something that your organization ties to that's 00:20:30.530 --> 00:20:31.850 align:middle line:90% throughout the business. 00:20:31.850 --> 00:20:34.410 align:middle line:84% So for me, I wasn't in HR, but it was 00:20:34.410 --> 00:20:36.050 align:middle line:90% something I always thought of. 00:20:36.050 --> 00:20:38.990 align:middle line:84% I knew that I was going to be taken care of as an employee, 00:20:38.990 --> 00:20:40.890 align:middle line:84% and so I took care of my customers. 00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:44.070 align:middle line:84% And so, as a result, revenue was generated. 00:20:44.070 --> 00:20:47.430 align:middle line:84% So I think it's very important, the line with culture. 00:20:47.430 --> 00:20:54.014 align:middle line:90% 00:20:54.014 --> 00:20:59.130 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Your personal and professional relationships 00:20:59.130 --> 00:21:04.818 align:middle line:84% within the small teams should be accomplished. 00:21:04.818 --> 00:21:07.830 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I think that you're in a small business, 00:21:07.830 --> 00:21:09.410 align:middle line:90% you're going to have that. 00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:12.170 align:middle line:90% Right? 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:19.040 align:middle line:84% I think that it can get difficult, particularly 00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:20.480 align:middle line:90% friendships. 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:29.360 align:middle line:84% And I think what helps with that, what helps it work, 00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:34.060 align:middle line:84% is a level of understanding about, say, 00:21:34.060 --> 00:21:36.400 align:middle line:84% two people as friends going into business together 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.760 align:middle line:90% or friends working together. 00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:43.920 align:middle line:84% I think role clarity in terms of who is really 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:47.840 align:middle line:84% responsible for what, and an awareness 00:21:47.840 --> 00:21:53.600 align:middle line:84% of what own one's own strengths and weaknesses are, particularly 00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:58.240 align:middle line:84% in a co-founding situation or an early stage situation 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:00.480 align:middle line:84% where you're maybe bringing together 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.600 align:middle line:84% people you were in school with, or maybe people 00:22:02.600 --> 00:22:05.680 align:middle line:84% you've worked with before, or what have you. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:11.160 align:middle line:84% And those relationships may have started out as friendships 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.900 align:middle line:84% and then had a professional component or vice versa. 00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:20.630 align:middle line:84% But I think the role clarity is really important, and also 00:22:20.630 --> 00:22:24.470 align:middle line:84% norms of behavior and really having discussions, not 00:22:24.470 --> 00:22:26.250 align:middle line:90% waiting for those to evolve. 00:22:26.250 --> 00:22:30.470 align:middle line:84% If you decide you're going to go into business with someone 00:22:30.470 --> 00:22:32.770 align:middle line:84% you've developed something with, for example, 00:22:32.770 --> 00:22:36.770 align:middle line:84% I think talking about that is really, really, really important 00:22:36.770 --> 00:22:38.310 align:middle line:90% in setting that up. 00:22:38.310 --> 00:22:43.830 align:middle line:84% As organizations evolve, I think there 00:22:43.830 --> 00:22:48.670 align:middle line:84% has to be rules of the road for how people operate. 00:22:48.670 --> 00:22:50.250 align:middle line:90% We worked together. 00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:51.170 align:middle line:90% We were very social. 00:22:51.170 --> 00:22:53.630 align:middle line:84% We're still we're very good friends now. 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:57.910 align:middle line:84% But when we work together, it was-- 00:22:57.910 --> 00:23:00.510 align:middle line:84% we had a collegial work environment. 00:23:00.510 --> 00:23:04.150 align:middle line:84% The friendships really developed more later, 00:23:04.150 --> 00:23:08.830 align:middle line:84% and the friendships developed out of really mutual respect, 00:23:08.830 --> 00:23:12.810 align:middle line:84% and from working together and achieving something together, 00:23:12.810 --> 00:23:14.520 align:middle line:90% building something together. 00:23:14.520 --> 00:23:16.990 align:middle line:84% One you've had the opportunity to build something together 00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:19.260 align:middle line:84% and it's successful, I mean, it's euphoric. 00:23:19.260 --> 00:23:20.560 align:middle line:90% And there's nothing like it. 00:23:20.560 --> 00:23:23.900 align:middle line:84% And my best experiences were really 00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:28.140 align:middle line:84% building organizations that could thrive. 00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:31.480 align:middle line:84% The company that I grew up at, I was there 10 years. 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:36.500 align:middle line:84% And the company was sold on the week of my 10 year anniversary 00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:37.860 align:middle line:90% there, which was-- 00:23:37.860 --> 00:23:39.140 align:middle line:90% and my birthday. 00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.540 align:middle line:84% And it was just one of those things. 00:23:42.540 --> 00:23:45.300 align:middle line:90% But I was so proud of it. 00:23:45.300 --> 00:23:49.260 align:middle line:84% And I will tell you, I remember crying that day with my children 00:23:49.260 --> 00:23:52.460 align:middle line:84% when that happened, because I didn't 00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.378 align:middle line:84% spend as much time at home often as I did at work. 00:23:55.378 --> 00:23:56.920 align:middle line:84% It was just the nature of what I did. 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.720 align:middle line:84% And I'm telling my kids, this is part of your legacy now. 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:02.900 align:middle line:90% It's like, Ma, you were fine. 00:24:02.900 --> 00:24:04.640 align:middle line:84% You were just a guilty working mother. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:09.280 align:middle line:84% But having that pride in building something together-- 00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:14.290 align:middle line:84% So I think having a dialogue around it, and early days doing 00:24:14.290 --> 00:24:16.610 align:middle line:84% that and establishing who does what, 00:24:16.610 --> 00:24:20.830 align:middle line:84% and also knowing sometimes when to back away. 00:24:20.830 --> 00:24:23.690 align:middle line:84% I have seen a couple of situations 00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:28.970 align:middle line:84% where I consulted where there were co-CEOs, for example. 00:24:28.970 --> 00:24:31.890 align:middle line:84% That really doesn't typically work very well. 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:35.950 align:middle line:84% One person usually needs to be in charge. 00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:38.670 align:middle line:84% It's not that the other person doesn't add equal value, 00:24:38.670 --> 00:24:42.410 align:middle line:84% and that's often why you often have your CTO person and maybe 00:24:42.410 --> 00:24:44.530 align:middle line:84% your person that runs the other side. 00:24:44.530 --> 00:24:47.450 align:middle line:84% The last company I worked at, the founder never 00:24:47.450 --> 00:24:48.970 align:middle line:90% wanted to run the company. 00:24:48.970 --> 00:24:52.250 align:middle line:84% He just wanted to be the evangelist for the product 00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:53.670 align:middle line:90% that he helped develop. 00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:56.370 align:middle line:84% And he decided that early on, so there 00:24:56.370 --> 00:24:59.830 align:middle line:84% were other people that came in and ran that organization. 00:24:59.830 --> 00:25:04.070 align:middle line:84% So I hope that helps answer your question. 00:25:04.070 --> 00:25:08.410 align:middle line:90% 00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:11.300 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the question I have is, 00:25:11.300 --> 00:25:16.940 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] company, so is the founder. 00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:19.440 align:middle line:84% And subsequently, there are some people 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.560 align:middle line:84% who want to join the company, and they kind of 00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:28.320 align:middle line:84% try to be-- also have the title of co-founder or something 00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:29.000 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.920 align:middle line:84% Is there a difference between founder and co-founder? 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.820 align:middle line:90% So that's number one question. 00:25:34.820 --> 00:25:38.680 align:middle line:84% Second one is actually like, [INAUDIBLE] 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.220 align:middle line:84% a startup company, sometimes a high growth. 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:43.760 align:middle line:90% So you need all the people in. 00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:47.800 align:middle line:84% And sometimes you're not sure whether that person 00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:50.800 align:middle line:90% will work out [INAUDIBLE]. 00:25:50.800 --> 00:25:53.680 align:middle line:84% So I wonder whether in terms of how 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.680 align:middle line:84% to structure the kind of relationships 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.480 align:middle line:84% are going to be using the time frame of six months, 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.600 align:middle line:90% or a year, or three months. 00:26:02.600 --> 00:26:05.420 align:middle line:84% Which time frame would be reasonable to work 00:26:05.420 --> 00:26:08.450 align:middle line:84% with a person trying to figure out whether there is a fit 00:26:08.450 --> 00:26:08.950 align:middle line:90% or not? 00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:15.270 align:middle line:84% And increase their compensation by equity [INAUDIBLE]? 00:26:15.270 --> 00:26:16.430 align:middle line:90% Is it the best thing? 00:26:16.430 --> 00:26:23.150 align:middle line:84% Is it the only way to kind of make this kind of management? 00:26:23.150 --> 00:26:26.166 align:middle line:90% Or what other [INAUDIBLE]? 00:26:26.166 --> 00:26:31.050 align:middle line:90% 00:26:31.050 --> 00:26:32.550 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: That's a lot to unpack. 00:26:32.550 --> 00:26:33.510 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: A lot of questions. 00:26:33.510 --> 00:26:34.810 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: That's a lot of good ones. 00:26:34.810 --> 00:26:36.010 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah, I know. 00:26:36.010 --> 00:26:37.593 align:middle line:84% I don't know where to start with that. 00:26:37.593 --> 00:26:41.830 align:middle line:84% So what I guess I will say is that sometimes I 00:26:41.830 --> 00:26:45.550 align:middle line:84% think it's a good situation, even not 00:26:45.550 --> 00:26:50.070 align:middle line:84% in just a founding situation to sort of try 00:26:50.070 --> 00:26:55.350 align:middle line:84% before you buy, if you will, particularly if you're 00:26:55.350 --> 00:27:01.740 align:middle line:84% uncertain about that person's capability. 00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:05.550 align:middle line:84% Sometimes people may represent their skills different, better 00:27:05.550 --> 00:27:08.790 align:middle line:90% than they are. 00:27:08.790 --> 00:27:14.230 align:middle line:84% And so if you can, have someone come in as a consultant. 00:27:14.230 --> 00:27:18.950 align:middle line:84% I think depending on how with the nature is that they're 00:27:18.950 --> 00:27:23.150 align:middle line:84% providing the service about, I usually 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.770 align:middle line:84% could assess that, I would say, in less than three months, 00:27:26.770 --> 00:27:28.590 align:middle line:90% sometimes a day. 00:27:28.590 --> 00:27:31.210 align:middle line:90% Sometimes you would know. 00:27:31.210 --> 00:27:34.050 align:middle line:84% But I trust my intuitive judgment on that. 00:27:34.050 --> 00:27:37.750 align:middle line:84% That was one of my things that I was always good at doing. 00:27:37.750 --> 00:27:41.563 align:middle line:84% But I think that within three months-- 00:27:41.563 --> 00:27:44.230 align:middle line:84% I mean, that's why in the past, people used to have these 90-day 00:27:44.230 --> 00:27:46.810 align:middle line:84% probation periods when people came in. 00:27:46.810 --> 00:27:48.870 align:middle line:84% They don't do that so much at work anymore. 00:27:48.870 --> 00:27:52.030 align:middle line:84% But you can usually tell if people 00:27:52.030 --> 00:27:53.530 align:middle line:90% are going to be contributing. 00:27:53.530 --> 00:27:55.270 align:middle line:84% And most importantly, you're going 00:27:55.270 --> 00:27:58.430 align:middle line:84% to be able to tell if you're going to have good give and take 00:27:58.430 --> 00:28:04.840 align:middle line:84% with them, and so to bring in someone in that respect. 00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:07.440 align:middle line:84% And then it depends on what you can afford. 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.740 align:middle line:84% It depends what that person's expertise is. 00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:13.740 align:middle line:84% I think early on, if you can do it in a way 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:19.740 align:middle line:84% that it's some of a monetary compensation versus stock 00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:22.340 align:middle line:84% or anything like that, I wouldn't do anything like that 00:28:22.340 --> 00:28:23.420 align:middle line:90% early on. 00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:27.640 align:middle line:84% If you're limited in money, you can try to negotiate something. 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:30.180 align:middle line:84% Or if someone really does want the job, 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:35.820 align:middle line:84% they'll maybe accept a little bit less of a consulting fee 00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:39.020 align:middle line:84% if they think that you might be hiring them. 00:28:39.020 --> 00:28:41.540 align:middle line:84% So I hope that answers some of your questions. 00:28:41.540 --> 00:28:45.380 align:middle line:84% In the beginning, your question was about who should-- 00:28:45.380 --> 00:28:47.640 align:middle line:90% about co-founder title. 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:52.540 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] co-founder kind of different. 00:28:52.540 --> 00:28:56.620 align:middle line:84% Let's say someone who joined a couple months later 00:28:56.620 --> 00:29:01.460 align:middle line:84% and they just love to have this kind of co-founder 00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:02.710 align:middle line:90% in their title. 00:29:02.710 --> 00:29:05.930 align:middle line:84% In that case, the founder and co-founder is different. 00:29:05.930 --> 00:29:09.010 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: It can be ambiguous. 00:29:09.010 --> 00:29:12.210 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think that in the situations where 00:29:12.210 --> 00:29:16.813 align:middle line:84% I've seen the co-founders, they really did come in together. 00:29:16.813 --> 00:29:17.730 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Together. 00:29:17.730 --> 00:29:18.605 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Right? 00:29:18.605 --> 00:29:21.070 align:middle line:84% It wasn't that somebody came and asked for that coming in. 00:29:21.070 --> 00:29:23.370 align:middle line:90% I personally have not seen that. 00:29:23.370 --> 00:29:27.210 align:middle line:84% I guess what I would say is it would depend on the value 00:29:27.210 --> 00:29:29.350 align:middle line:84% that that person was bringing in. 00:29:29.350 --> 00:29:33.090 align:middle line:84% So if he or she had an expertise that you really 00:29:33.090 --> 00:29:35.930 align:middle line:84% needed to make your business be successful 00:29:35.930 --> 00:29:39.050 align:middle line:84% and it complemented you, then that 00:29:39.050 --> 00:29:41.630 align:middle line:90% might be something I would do. 00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:44.290 align:middle line:84% But I don't know that I would give it away right away. 00:29:44.290 --> 00:29:51.490 align:middle line:84% I think I would take the time to get to know that person, 00:29:51.490 --> 00:29:53.950 align:middle line:84% whether it's coming in and working as a consultant, 00:29:53.950 --> 00:29:57.830 align:middle line:84% whether it's problem solving on something together. 00:29:57.830 --> 00:30:01.300 align:middle line:84% I also think in that whole recruitment process, 00:30:01.300 --> 00:30:04.800 align:middle line:84% if it's a small organization that you have-- 00:30:04.800 --> 00:30:09.680 align:middle line:84% whenever we hired executives, we would all-- 00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:12.320 align:middle line:84% I would always have more than one-- 00:30:12.320 --> 00:30:13.820 align:middle line:84% of course, your interviewing aside. 00:30:13.820 --> 00:30:20.600 align:middle line:84% But I'd always take try to take people out to dinner and just 00:30:20.600 --> 00:30:23.340 align:middle line:84% in an-- or an informal environment. 00:30:23.340 --> 00:30:26.920 align:middle line:84% I used to always look for how well people treated the wait 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:31.800 align:middle line:84% staff in a restaurant when we were going to hire an executive. 00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:36.320 align:middle line:84% Did they treat that person with respect? 00:30:36.320 --> 00:30:38.920 align:middle line:84% How did they behave around others? 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:44.120 align:middle line:84% Because someone can interview very well, 00:30:44.120 --> 00:30:46.160 align:middle line:84% but you might miss some of the subtleties 00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.560 align:middle line:84% for how their human interaction is. 00:30:48.560 --> 00:30:51.380 align:middle line:84% And so that's what I would advise. 00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:55.080 align:middle line:84% I would take my time and try to really get 00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:57.900 align:middle line:84% to know the person, and the whole person, 00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:00.990 align:middle line:84% not just what they're bringing to the table 00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:04.930 align:middle line:84% for their particular technical expertise or skill set. 00:31:04.930 --> 00:31:08.933 align:middle line:90% 00:31:08.933 --> 00:31:09.850 align:middle line:90% Way in the back there. 00:31:09.850 --> 00:31:14.528 align:middle line:90% 00:31:14.528 --> 00:31:16.070 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Thank you for your answers. 00:31:16.070 --> 00:31:21.010 align:middle line:84% I have a question regarding your kind of-- about your experience, 00:31:21.010 --> 00:31:23.150 align:middle line:84% as you mentioned, in mergers and acquisitions 00:31:23.150 --> 00:31:24.750 align:middle line:90% and that sort of thing. 00:31:24.750 --> 00:31:27.950 align:middle line:84% So I wanted to ask you for that [INAUDIBLE] advice 00:31:27.950 --> 00:31:31.470 align:middle line:84% that not everybody might know [INAUDIBLE] 00:31:31.470 --> 00:31:34.990 align:middle line:84% regarding or for a startup that's 00:31:34.990 --> 00:31:40.090 align:middle line:84% trying to restructure these companies, but at the same time, 00:31:40.090 --> 00:31:43.690 align:middle line:84% is facing battles in being acquired by the large companies. 00:31:43.690 --> 00:31:48.190 align:middle line:84% What advice do you have for those startups to be disruptive 00:31:48.190 --> 00:31:51.150 align:middle line:84% and to dominate in that sense and overtake 00:31:51.150 --> 00:31:52.615 align:middle line:90% those large companies? 00:31:52.615 --> 00:31:54.490 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: So you want me to take this one? 00:31:54.490 --> 00:31:55.907 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I think that's you. 00:31:55.907 --> 00:31:59.580 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: So being with a very large company, when 00:31:59.580 --> 00:32:02.240 align:middle line:84% I think about the competitive landscape-- 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:06.100 align:middle line:84% and so, right now, I'll give you a real time story. 00:32:06.100 --> 00:32:07.720 align:middle line:90% We're a multinational company. 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.300 align:middle line:84% We have a very large business that we do in China, 00:32:10.300 --> 00:32:13.740 align:middle line:84% and the China competition can do it better and faster. 00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:15.200 align:middle line:90% And they're small. 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.820 align:middle line:90% They're much smaller than us. 00:32:16.820 --> 00:32:19.140 align:middle line:84% I was in China over the summer and we 00:32:19.140 --> 00:32:21.600 align:middle line:84% got the opportunity to go meet with a bunch of customers. 00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:28.280 align:middle line:84% And the difference is, is that our sell is size and scale. 00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:30.740 align:middle line:84% We can service anything you need. 00:32:30.740 --> 00:32:33.740 align:middle line:84% The problem with doing business with a larger company 00:32:33.740 --> 00:32:38.100 align:middle line:84% is the pace is slow and the rigidity is large. 00:32:38.100 --> 00:32:42.220 align:middle line:84% So the smaller companies build on the relationship and how 00:32:42.220 --> 00:32:45.420 align:middle line:84% flexible, nimble, and fast they can be. 00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:48.060 align:middle line:90% And that's the difference. 00:32:48.060 --> 00:32:50.830 align:middle line:84% It really is in terms of customer service. 00:32:50.830 --> 00:32:52.580 align:middle line:84% And then there's always different dynamics 00:32:52.580 --> 00:32:54.610 align:middle line:84% that are playing from an economic standpoint, 00:32:54.610 --> 00:32:57.730 align:middle line:84% that you just got to get ahead, and be on top of, 00:32:57.730 --> 00:32:58.510 align:middle line:90% and think about. 00:32:58.510 --> 00:33:00.570 align:middle line:84% But frankly, those are the things 00:33:00.570 --> 00:33:02.870 align:middle line:84% that being a large company, it irritates us. 00:33:02.870 --> 00:33:05.970 align:middle line:84% It's like oh, we just can't move fast enough or we cannot 00:33:05.970 --> 00:33:08.158 align:middle line:84% accommodate for this particular customer, 00:33:08.158 --> 00:33:10.450 align:middle line:84% because that would mean we have to extend that to other 00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:12.750 align:middle line:84% customers or things of that nature. 00:33:12.750 --> 00:33:18.150 align:middle line:90% But that's one thing. 00:33:18.150 --> 00:33:20.490 align:middle line:84% And then certainly, depending upon what 00:33:20.490 --> 00:33:23.130 align:middle line:84% is going to be-- what you're selling, 00:33:23.130 --> 00:33:25.930 align:middle line:84% it's going to be-- whether it's quality, 00:33:25.930 --> 00:33:28.750 align:middle line:84% what we find with the smaller companies, it's usually price. 00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:30.650 align:middle line:84% They can do it for a better price. 00:33:30.650 --> 00:33:35.690 align:middle line:84% So if it's a good enough type of product where the customer is 00:33:35.690 --> 00:33:37.210 align:middle line:84% looking for, they're not necessarily 00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:39.650 align:middle line:84% going to go for our bigger quality product 00:33:39.650 --> 00:33:41.990 align:middle line:84% that we've invested a lot of R&D dollars in. 00:33:41.990 --> 00:33:45.090 align:middle line:84% But they're going to look for the good enough product that's 00:33:45.090 --> 00:33:46.310 align:middle line:90% at a better price point. 00:33:46.310 --> 00:33:49.770 align:middle line:90% 00:33:49.770 --> 00:33:52.480 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I would say also, one of the companies 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.560 align:middle line:84% that I'm on the board for, the company's been 00:33:55.560 --> 00:33:56.800 align:middle line:90% around a long time. 00:33:56.800 --> 00:34:00.600 align:middle line:90% It's an infrastructure company. 00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:05.720 align:middle line:84% Our direction now is growing through acquisition. 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:10.280 align:middle line:84% And we've been very selective and disciplined in that process. 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:14.440 align:middle line:84% The prices for companies over private 00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:17.719 align:middle line:84% or ones that are being divested or whatever 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:20.820 align:middle line:84% is because of all the money that's been in the market. 00:34:20.820 --> 00:34:24.520 align:middle line:84% It's been really hard to compete sometimes with what 00:34:24.520 --> 00:34:27.120 align:middle line:90% private equity could do. 00:34:27.120 --> 00:34:32.760 align:middle line:84% But what I would say is that with the right approach, 00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:37.840 align:middle line:84% when we've been acquiring, been really careful to keep 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:41.880 align:middle line:84% the right talent, particularly the people that understand 00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:43.860 align:middle line:90% the technology and whatever. 00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:47.520 align:middle line:84% And many times, the people that have founded these companies 00:34:47.520 --> 00:34:51.409 align:middle line:84% have a very strong following of the people that work for them. 00:34:51.409 --> 00:34:55.190 align:middle line:84% And so in order to retain them and also 00:34:55.190 --> 00:34:58.630 align:middle line:84% make sure you get the most out of that acquisition investment 00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:02.290 align:middle line:84% to make sure that you're keeping a founder, 00:35:02.290 --> 00:35:07.990 align:middle line:84% at least for a period of time, and make it a win-win situation, 00:35:07.990 --> 00:35:10.110 align:middle line:90% that, I think, works the best. 00:35:10.110 --> 00:35:12.970 align:middle line:84% And the smart companies, I think, 00:35:12.970 --> 00:35:17.110 align:middle line:84% understand that and know how to make it attractive for people 00:35:17.110 --> 00:35:20.058 align:middle line:90% to stay. 00:35:20.058 --> 00:35:21.850 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: I would agree with that. 00:35:21.850 --> 00:35:25.770 align:middle line:84% So in my current organization, it's a strategy that we have. 00:35:25.770 --> 00:35:27.630 align:middle line:84% So rather than building out the product 00:35:27.630 --> 00:35:31.150 align:middle line:84% offering that we have now, we're looking 00:35:31.150 --> 00:35:37.470 align:middle line:84% outside to see what products can be complementary or something 00:35:37.470 --> 00:35:40.010 align:middle line:90% that the customer will utilize. 00:35:40.010 --> 00:35:43.870 align:middle line:84% We acquired a company last-- a year ago June. 00:35:43.870 --> 00:35:48.420 align:middle line:84% And the revenue component on that organization 00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:49.940 align:middle line:90% is extraordinary. 00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:55.940 align:middle line:84% It ran intact as a separate part of the business 00:35:55.940 --> 00:35:58.240 align:middle line:84% for almost the better part of a year, 00:35:58.240 --> 00:36:01.700 align:middle line:84% so that we could really assess the talent that was there. 00:36:01.700 --> 00:36:03.840 align:middle line:90% The founder is still there. 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.860 align:middle line:84% He had a great say in how the operation would 00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:10.380 align:middle line:90% come into the business. 00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:16.380 align:middle line:84% And it's only been the past six months that it's now-- 00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:20.220 align:middle line:84% I would say outside of the G&A functions, 00:36:20.220 --> 00:36:21.900 align:middle line:84% that part of the organization is now 00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:24.360 align:middle line:84% rolling up into the engineering organization. 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.480 align:middle line:84% So I think there's lots of opportunity there. 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:30.060 align:middle line:84% And I think from my experience, companies 00:36:30.060 --> 00:36:33.900 align:middle line:84% want their acquisition to be successful, 00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:36.040 align:middle line:84% and the talent and the people that are there. 00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:38.740 align:middle line:84% Oftentimes, it's not simply the product that's 00:36:38.740 --> 00:36:40.467 align:middle line:90% the most important piece. 00:36:40.467 --> 00:36:41.300 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 00:36:41.300 --> 00:36:44.500 align:middle line:84% A lot of times, too, I think if you do it the right way, 00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:46.450 align:middle line:84% you look at the talent that you're bringing in 00:36:46.450 --> 00:36:47.790 align:middle line:90% through an acquisition. 00:36:47.790 --> 00:36:51.990 align:middle line:84% And sometimes you have better talent that you're hiring, 00:36:51.990 --> 00:36:56.170 align:middle line:84% and you may not have the same talent inside. 00:36:56.170 --> 00:36:58.270 align:middle line:84% It's not always popular to do that, 00:36:58.270 --> 00:37:02.150 align:middle line:84% but I can think of organizations that-- in the past, 00:37:02.150 --> 00:37:04.110 align:middle line:84% I was a part of them and we made acquisitions. 00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:06.210 align:middle line:84% I actually made changes on my staff 00:37:06.210 --> 00:37:10.050 align:middle line:84% because the people that we got through the acquisition 00:37:10.050 --> 00:37:11.630 align:middle line:90% just had a better skill set. 00:37:11.630 --> 00:37:13.510 align:middle line:84% And that's never an easy conversation. 00:37:13.510 --> 00:37:14.968 align:middle line:84% But at the end of the day, you have 00:37:14.968 --> 00:37:16.990 align:middle line:84% to do what's best for the business. 00:37:16.990 --> 00:37:23.270 align:middle line:84% And you got to go as a meritocracy, in my opinion. 00:37:23.270 --> 00:37:25.970 align:middle line:90% 00:37:25.970 --> 00:37:26.950 align:middle line:90% A question up there? 00:37:26.950 --> 00:37:29.130 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Thank you for sharing. 00:37:29.130 --> 00:37:32.520 align:middle line:84% My question is I'm going to bring [INAUDIBLE]. 00:37:32.520 --> 00:37:38.490 align:middle line:90% 00:37:38.490 --> 00:37:42.290 align:middle line:84% As a founder, I actually find myself to be more-- 00:37:42.290 --> 00:37:45.370 align:middle line:90% 00:37:45.370 --> 00:37:50.730 align:middle line:84% I found the relationship more than interests. 00:37:50.730 --> 00:37:52.590 align:middle line:90% That's just the way I am. 00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:56.970 align:middle line:84% But sometimes I feel like [INAUDIBLE]. 00:37:56.970 --> 00:38:03.510 align:middle line:84% I think sometimes being to understanding in what-- 00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:07.090 align:middle line:84% And that can be somewhat capitalized 00:38:07.090 --> 00:38:12.250 align:middle line:84% or [INAUDIBLE] come across as [INAUDIBLE]. 00:38:12.250 --> 00:38:16.490 align:middle line:90% And I think some founders-- 00:38:16.490 --> 00:38:24.010 align:middle line:84% like founders comes from a variety of boxes right. 00:38:24.010 --> 00:38:26.770 align:middle line:84% So maybe there's a team or some dynamic 00:38:26.770 --> 00:38:29.690 align:middle line:84% that works better most of the time with founders 00:38:29.690 --> 00:38:32.830 align:middle line:84% or throughout your experience was very mindful 00:38:32.830 --> 00:38:35.780 align:middle line:90% of people in my situation. 00:38:35.780 --> 00:38:36.530 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Yeah. 00:38:36.530 --> 00:38:42.560 align:middle line:90% 00:38:42.560 --> 00:38:44.940 align:middle line:84% The best advice that I can give you is-- 00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:46.440 align:middle line:84% and it's interesting, because I just 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.580 align:middle line:84% had this conversation with one of the executives that we have. 00:38:49.580 --> 00:38:54.320 align:middle line:84% And I think the best thing that you 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:57.160 align:middle line:84% can do-- we try and try oftentimes to look at the faults 00:38:57.160 --> 00:38:58.587 align:middle line:90% that we have and change them. 00:38:58.587 --> 00:39:00.920 align:middle line:84% And there's going to come a certain point in your career 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:02.400 align:middle line:84% where you have to step back and be 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:04.290 align:middle line:90% very self-aware of who you are. 00:39:04.290 --> 00:39:06.040 align:middle line:84% And you look at the strengths and you look 00:39:06.040 --> 00:39:07.760 align:middle line:90% at where you have opportunity. 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:11.280 align:middle line:84% And so you said, oftentimes, you may not have the boundaries 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.020 align:middle line:90% that you need. 00:39:12.020 --> 00:39:13.720 align:middle line:90% That's who you are. 00:39:13.720 --> 00:39:16.740 align:middle line:84% So even when you think about that from a leader standpoint, 00:39:16.740 --> 00:39:17.573 align:middle line:90% that is who you are. 00:39:17.573 --> 00:39:20.115 align:middle line:84% So you say, OK, these are the things that I'm really good at. 00:39:20.115 --> 00:39:22.320 align:middle line:84% These are the things that I need some help with. 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.000 align:middle line:84% And you go higher and you put people 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.460 align:middle line:84% that trust that fill in those gaps around you. 00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:30.020 align:middle line:84% So my advice to my colleague as we were talking about it, 00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:32.440 align:middle line:84% he's incredibly strategic in nature. 00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:34.460 align:middle line:90% He's very broad thinking. 00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:36.320 align:middle line:84% His issue is that he has a really hard time 00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:40.350 align:middle line:84% bringing strategy to execution and mobilizing his workforce. 00:39:40.350 --> 00:39:44.670 align:middle line:84% And so instead of sitting there and trying to change him forever 00:39:44.670 --> 00:39:47.370 align:middle line:84% around how do you articulate that strategy better, 00:39:47.370 --> 00:39:50.830 align:middle line:84% we try to put folks around him that he trusts 00:39:50.830 --> 00:39:54.030 align:middle line:84% that are execution-oriented, and then they go off 00:39:54.030 --> 00:39:56.890 align:middle line:84% and they and they mobilize the rest of the workforce. 00:39:56.890 --> 00:40:00.310 align:middle line:84% So you might want to think about, 00:40:00.310 --> 00:40:02.350 align:middle line:84% how do you complement your own style 00:40:02.350 --> 00:40:04.710 align:middle line:84% with people that are a little bit different, that you 00:40:04.710 --> 00:40:05.970 align:middle line:90% trust their advice? 00:40:05.970 --> 00:40:07.330 align:middle line:90% Because that's going to be hard. 00:40:07.330 --> 00:40:09.050 align:middle line:84% Those conversations will be difficult. 00:40:09.050 --> 00:40:11.670 align:middle line:84% But you know that when the person comes to you, OK, 00:40:11.670 --> 00:40:16.190 align:middle line:84% they mean it with the best of intentions. 00:40:16.190 --> 00:40:20.298 align:middle line:84% And they can balance some of that out for you. 00:40:20.298 --> 00:40:22.090 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah, I agree with that too. 00:40:22.090 --> 00:40:25.590 align:middle line:90% I think we are who we are. 00:40:25.590 --> 00:40:29.550 align:middle line:84% And so I can think of a point in my career, when I first 00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:33.030 align:middle line:84% got into a more senior role, I started 00:40:33.030 --> 00:40:35.990 align:middle line:84% to try to be somebody different than who I was. 00:40:35.990 --> 00:40:40.020 align:middle line:84% And I was more hard nosed about things, for lack of a better way 00:40:40.020 --> 00:40:44.460 align:middle line:84% to describe it, and I didn't trust my intuitive judgment 00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:47.860 align:middle line:84% as much as I used to, and I wasn't as effective. 00:40:47.860 --> 00:40:51.360 align:middle line:84% So I think if that's who you are, 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.500 align:middle line:84% I think Kim's advice is good advice. 00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:57.300 align:middle line:90% Understand who you are. 00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:03.520 align:middle line:84% We change a little bit, but over time, we're pretty fully formed 00:41:03.520 --> 00:41:06.880 align:middle line:84% by the time we get to around 30, 35, 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:10.220 align:middle line:90% even more when you're over 50. 00:41:10.220 --> 00:41:15.020 align:middle line:84% And then you just hire to your compliment 00:41:15.020 --> 00:41:19.180 align:middle line:84% and take trusted advice of people 00:41:19.180 --> 00:41:22.380 align:middle line:84% that are different from you and have a different point of view. 00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:26.580 align:middle line:84% But I think that understanding who you are 00:41:26.580 --> 00:41:28.860 align:middle line:84% and having people probably appreciate 00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:35.740 align:middle line:84% the fact that you are like you are, and that you do show-- 00:41:35.740 --> 00:41:39.850 align:middle line:84% sounds like you show empathy and consideration, very much so. 00:41:39.850 --> 00:41:42.077 align:middle line:90% And that's a gift. 00:41:42.077 --> 00:41:43.410 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: It is a gift. 00:41:43.410 --> 00:41:45.350 align:middle line:90% It's also-- you know what? 00:41:45.350 --> 00:41:46.410 align:middle line:90% It's a muscle. 00:41:46.410 --> 00:41:49.430 align:middle line:84% So the more you use it, the better you'll get at it. 00:41:49.430 --> 00:41:53.110 align:middle line:84% So the more you recognize that that's not your strength 00:41:53.110 --> 00:41:55.470 align:middle line:84% and you need to lean on someone else to do it, 00:41:55.470 --> 00:41:57.990 align:middle line:84% the better you'll get at being able to recognize that. 00:41:57.990 --> 00:42:01.270 align:middle line:84% And it won't be as painful for you to do. 00:42:01.270 --> 00:42:04.610 align:middle line:84% Because I think when you do have that element of empathy, 00:42:04.610 --> 00:42:07.730 align:middle line:84% it's hard to push people away at first. 00:42:07.730 --> 00:42:11.850 align:middle line:84% But just know that you're doing better by them, 00:42:11.850 --> 00:42:14.450 align:middle line:84% by putting them in front of people 00:42:14.450 --> 00:42:17.760 align:middle line:84% who are better able to lead them in the direction 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:18.510 align:middle line:90% that they need to. 00:42:18.510 --> 00:42:20.990 align:middle line:84% And then you can focus on the things that you need to. 00:42:20.990 --> 00:42:23.930 align:middle line:84% You'll get better at it, I promise. 00:42:23.930 --> 00:42:27.218 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: We have one way in the back there. 00:42:27.218 --> 00:42:28.510 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: She was waiting. 00:42:28.510 --> 00:42:29.260 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Yeah. 00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:34.680 align:middle line:90% 00:42:34.680 --> 00:42:35.888 align:middle line:90% Getting your workout tonight. 00:42:35.888 --> 00:42:36.597 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I know. 00:42:36.597 --> 00:42:37.878 align:middle line:90% I already did my [INAUDIBLE]. 00:42:37.878 --> 00:42:40.208 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:42:40.208 --> 00:42:41.520 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Hi. 00:42:41.520 --> 00:42:44.600 align:middle line:84% My question surrounds female founders 00:42:44.600 --> 00:42:53.160 align:middle line:84% and balancing some of the traits that some executives might not 00:42:53.160 --> 00:42:58.200 align:middle line:84% find as common with founders, and how 00:42:58.200 --> 00:43:03.520 align:middle line:84% to balance being yourself and being that other persona 00:43:03.520 --> 00:43:07.120 align:middle line:84% that some people are used to, especially when you're raising 00:43:07.120 --> 00:43:10.480 align:middle line:84% and you're scaling or hiring senior members 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:13.398 align:middle line:90% to join your team and the board. 00:43:13.398 --> 00:43:14.440 align:middle line:90% That's my first question. 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:18.660 align:middle line:84% The other one is more technical about, as a startup, 00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:21.200 align:middle line:84% there are no processes in place where you just 00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:24.680 align:middle line:84% set up milestones and goals for your employees 00:43:24.680 --> 00:43:28.320 align:middle line:84% that change regularly based on performance. 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:32.120 align:middle line:84% But at what point should we actually put that down on paper 00:43:32.120 --> 00:43:37.190 align:middle line:84% and start making processes for the company so that-- 00:43:37.190 --> 00:43:43.710 align:middle line:84% I mean, it takes a lot of time, a lot of thought that comes up 00:43:43.710 --> 00:43:48.310 align:middle line:84% with the strategy [INAUDIBLE] how do you see-- 00:43:48.310 --> 00:43:52.240 align:middle line:84% when do you see that as very important? 00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:54.890 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: OK, so I'm the process girl here. 00:43:54.890 --> 00:43:57.430 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:43:57.430 --> 00:44:01.570 align:middle line:84% So my bias is that you should have SOPs out of the gate. 00:44:01.570 --> 00:44:03.670 align:middle line:84% You should have-- you should document 00:44:03.670 --> 00:44:04.970 align:middle line:90% you should put them in place. 00:44:04.970 --> 00:44:07.150 align:middle line:84% It doesn't mean that they live forever. 00:44:07.150 --> 00:44:10.230 align:middle line:84% But it's so much easier to do business 00:44:10.230 --> 00:44:12.990 align:middle line:84% when you know what you need to do, and you know-- 00:44:12.990 --> 00:44:17.150 align:middle line:84% and you have guidelines, and you have a place 00:44:17.150 --> 00:44:22.730 align:middle line:84% that you can refer to and you can send people back to. 00:44:22.730 --> 00:44:27.590 align:middle line:84% It's easy to find worth in all the other work. 00:44:27.590 --> 00:44:32.780 align:middle line:84% But what will happen is, if you don't put policies in place 00:44:32.780 --> 00:44:35.720 align:middle line:84% and you don't put process in place, inevitably, 00:44:35.720 --> 00:44:40.260 align:middle line:84% you're going to spend more time having to stop and address 00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:43.767 align:middle line:84% issues that you wouldn't have had to if you had them in place. 00:44:43.767 --> 00:44:46.100 align:middle line:84% And I think the earlier you do that, the better that you 00:44:46.100 --> 00:44:47.380 align:middle line:90% are at them. 00:44:47.380 --> 00:44:49.880 align:middle line:84% And they certainly can be changed. 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:51.460 align:middle line:90% They're not there forever. 00:44:51.460 --> 00:44:53.600 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah, I agree with that. 00:44:53.600 --> 00:44:57.380 align:middle line:84% And I think that it doesn't mean you have to be bureaucratic. 00:44:57.380 --> 00:44:58.740 align:middle line:90% Right? 00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:01.440 align:middle line:84% But I think process is important. 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.740 align:middle line:84% Again, back to my earlier comments, 00:45:03.740 --> 00:45:08.660 align:middle line:84% routines so people have guidelines and guardrails 00:45:08.660 --> 00:45:10.700 align:middle line:90% for work. 00:45:10.700 --> 00:45:14.140 align:middle line:84% I think the thing that makes organizations, 00:45:14.140 --> 00:45:19.260 align:middle line:84% people effective is having really clarity around-- 00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:23.940 align:middle line:84% when things are wrong, whether it's at home or whether 00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:27.460 align:middle line:84% it's in a relationship or whether it's at work, 00:45:27.460 --> 00:45:30.730 align:middle line:84% the degree to which you can be clear about what 00:45:30.730 --> 00:45:34.330 align:middle line:84% your expectations are, clear about what your own needs are, 00:45:34.330 --> 00:45:36.970 align:middle line:84% clear about what the outcome is you want to be-- 00:45:36.970 --> 00:45:41.770 align:middle line:84% always focus on clarity, I think always makes things better. 00:45:41.770 --> 00:45:45.730 align:middle line:84% It may lead to some conflict, but the conflict also, 00:45:45.730 --> 00:45:47.670 align:middle line:84% if it helps you get to better clarity, 00:45:47.670 --> 00:45:50.470 align:middle line:84% you're going to be in a better place. 00:45:50.470 --> 00:45:51.650 align:middle line:90% Conflict is good. 00:45:51.650 --> 00:45:54.923 align:middle line:84% If it gets you to a better place. 00:45:54.923 --> 00:45:56.590 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: Your first question though, 00:45:56.590 --> 00:45:59.485 align:middle line:84% I just-- my own personal advice to you, you just be you. 00:45:59.485 --> 00:46:00.610 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: Exactly. 00:46:00.610 --> 00:46:02.650 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: Female or whatever, you 00:46:02.650 --> 00:46:06.130 align:middle line:84% be your authentic self and that'll 00:46:06.130 --> 00:46:07.310 align:middle line:90% take you a whole long way. 00:46:07.310 --> 00:46:13.770 align:middle line:90% 00:46:13.770 --> 00:46:14.770 align:middle line:90% Lots of questions. 00:46:14.770 --> 00:46:14.970 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Good. 00:46:14.970 --> 00:46:16.090 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Lots of questions. 00:46:16.090 --> 00:46:17.090 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah. 00:46:17.090 --> 00:46:22.297 align:middle line:90% 00:46:22.297 --> 00:46:23.130 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Thank you. 00:46:23.130 --> 00:46:28.160 align:middle line:84% I would like to go back again to the open conflict, 00:46:28.160 --> 00:46:32.040 align:middle line:84% when you have the different set of people-- 00:46:32.040 --> 00:46:34.960 align:middle line:84% technical co-founder and business co-founder. 00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.380 align:middle line:84% As we have seen in previous sessions, all the time, 00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:43.680 align:middle line:84% the value of the technical model starts going down and business 00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:45.840 align:middle line:90% co-founders [INAUDIBLE]. 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.440 align:middle line:84% And that naturally creates some kind 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:51.400 align:middle line:84% of insecurity for the other person. 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.280 align:middle line:84% In your experience, how you actually 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:59.520 align:middle line:84% try to solve that particular situation or experience? 00:46:59.520 --> 00:47:01.720 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Well, I think that personally, I've 00:47:01.720 --> 00:47:05.460 align:middle line:84% been in some situations where I would help facilitate that. 00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:08.620 align:middle line:84% But usually when someone asked me to do that, 00:47:08.620 --> 00:47:11.320 align:middle line:84% there was already more of a problem 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:12.980 align:middle line:84% than you would have wanted it to be. 00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:19.360 align:middle line:84% So I would say, that in business you're 00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.680 align:middle line:84% going to have that natural conflict that's 00:47:22.680 --> 00:47:26.150 align:middle line:84% going to come about because of sometimes the amount of time 00:47:26.150 --> 00:47:27.870 align:middle line:84% people take to develop the technology 00:47:27.870 --> 00:47:29.810 align:middle line:84% or the quality with which they will, 00:47:29.810 --> 00:47:32.050 align:middle line:84% and what the go to market needs might be. 00:47:32.050 --> 00:47:35.730 align:middle line:84% And so that's part of what happens. 00:47:35.730 --> 00:47:41.310 align:middle line:84% But I think that being able to have a dialogue 00:47:41.310 --> 00:47:46.070 align:middle line:84% and be able to try to problem solve together, if you have 00:47:46.070 --> 00:47:50.550 align:middle line:84% outside financial advisors or professors or whoever is helping 00:47:50.550 --> 00:47:55.710 align:middle line:84% you get going, chances are you have trusted resources 00:47:55.710 --> 00:47:56.770 align:middle line:90% around you. 00:47:56.770 --> 00:48:01.710 align:middle line:84% If you had a trusted resource that both parties respected, 00:48:01.710 --> 00:48:05.870 align:middle line:84% hopefully that person could help maybe even just 00:48:05.870 --> 00:48:10.550 align:middle line:84% facilitate a dialogue to help you come to more common ground. 00:48:10.550 --> 00:48:14.230 align:middle line:84% I think it's important to understand-- 00:48:14.230 --> 00:48:19.510 align:middle line:84% know when to ask for help, and also to be honest always 00:48:19.510 --> 00:48:21.050 align:middle line:90% in these interactions. 00:48:21.050 --> 00:48:24.050 align:middle line:84% Sometimes we get angry and we walk away. 00:48:24.050 --> 00:48:28.230 align:middle line:84% And you may not really have really gotten to the issue. 00:48:28.230 --> 00:48:30.250 align:middle line:84% One of the things I used to always try to do-- 00:48:30.250 --> 00:48:32.030 align:middle line:84% I still try to do this in my life 00:48:32.030 --> 00:48:33.930 align:middle line:84% when I'm having a conflict with someone. 00:48:33.930 --> 00:48:35.870 align:middle line:84% I'd say, well, do you have any-- when 00:48:35.870 --> 00:48:39.070 align:middle line:84% we were done-- do you have any undelivered communication? 00:48:39.070 --> 00:48:42.737 align:middle line:84% Chances are more stuff came out when you say, 00:48:42.737 --> 00:48:45.070 align:middle line:84% is there anything else here you have to say and you sure 00:48:45.070 --> 00:48:46.778 align:middle line:84% there's nothing else you're holding back. 00:48:46.778 --> 00:48:48.050 align:middle line:90% Well, maybe they were. 00:48:48.050 --> 00:48:50.870 align:middle line:84% And a person said to me once, when 00:48:50.870 --> 00:48:54.370 align:middle line:84% you take what's covert, what's behind, 00:48:54.370 --> 00:48:57.290 align:middle line:84% and you can make it overt, then you can problem solve. 00:48:57.290 --> 00:49:00.550 align:middle line:84% And a lot of times people don't always honestly dialogue. 00:49:00.550 --> 00:49:03.130 align:middle line:90% So hopefully, that helps. 00:49:03.130 --> 00:49:06.270 align:middle line:84% But I think don't be afraid to ask for help with people 00:49:06.270 --> 00:49:12.270 align:middle line:84% that and trust, and who that other party would trust as well. 00:49:12.270 --> 00:49:14.110 align:middle line:90% Is there more hands? 00:49:14.110 --> 00:49:14.610 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:49:14.610 --> 00:49:16.318 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I thought I would weigh in here 00:49:16.318 --> 00:49:18.670 align:middle line:84% with a problem I have in the past that I'd 00:49:18.670 --> 00:49:20.780 align:middle line:90% like to pose to you. 00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:24.200 align:middle line:84% And then I'll tell you how I resolved it and you can tell me 00:49:24.200 --> 00:49:26.020 align:middle line:90% if that made sense. 00:49:26.020 --> 00:49:28.820 align:middle line:84% So this may not be typical for the kind of companies 00:49:28.820 --> 00:49:30.020 align:middle line:90% that come out of here. 00:49:30.020 --> 00:49:32.180 align:middle line:90% So one of my co-founders-- 00:49:32.180 --> 00:49:36.800 align:middle line:84% my co-founder, was an MIT Computer Science professor, 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:42.220 align:middle line:84% a really brilliant guy and just fantastic. 00:49:42.220 --> 00:49:46.480 align:middle line:84% I began to notice over time, we weren't meeting schedules 00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:50.920 align:middle line:84% and the team seemed to not be functioning well. 00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:57.240 align:middle line:84% So I started asking people like, why are we behind? 00:49:57.240 --> 00:50:01.580 align:middle line:84% What slowly came out was people said, [INAUDIBLE] 00:50:01.580 --> 00:50:02.900 align:middle line:90% pieced this together. 00:50:02.900 --> 00:50:06.900 align:middle line:84% Well, I go to the co-founder and I say, 00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:08.680 align:middle line:90% here's what I'm proposing to do. 00:50:08.680 --> 00:50:10.800 align:middle line:84% And immediately-- I'm so brilliant [INAUDIBLE] 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:12.700 align:middle line:90% what do you think of that? 00:50:12.700 --> 00:50:14.860 align:middle line:84% And it would feel like [INAUDIBLE]. 00:50:14.860 --> 00:50:19.310 align:middle line:84% The teams [INAUDIBLE] that are motivated and brilliant 00:50:19.310 --> 00:50:20.130 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE]. 00:50:20.130 --> 00:50:21.370 align:middle line:90% And so they would go back. 00:50:21.370 --> 00:50:25.130 align:middle line:84% And over time, they sort of were afraid to bring issues 00:50:25.130 --> 00:50:27.630 align:middle line:90% forward because [INAUDIBLE]. 00:50:27.630 --> 00:50:30.353 align:middle line:90% 00:50:30.353 --> 00:50:32.270 align:middle line:84% So what would you do in a situation like that? 00:50:32.270 --> 00:50:34.050 align:middle line:84% And then I'll tell you what I did. 00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:36.050 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Well, I think what 00:50:36.050 --> 00:50:37.970 align:middle line:84% you have to do in a situation like that 00:50:37.970 --> 00:50:40.890 align:middle line:84% is you have to tell the person what they're doing. 00:50:40.890 --> 00:50:45.250 align:middle line:84% Now, they may not want to hear it. 00:50:45.250 --> 00:50:48.970 align:middle line:84% Sometimes people-- sometimes their egos 00:50:48.970 --> 00:50:53.810 align:middle line:84% are such that they have to be better, smarter, whatever. 00:50:53.810 --> 00:50:57.270 align:middle line:84% Sometimes they just are smarter and think faster, 00:50:57.270 --> 00:51:00.170 align:middle line:90% and that's where they go. 00:51:00.170 --> 00:51:03.330 align:middle line:84% A lot of times, I think when people do 00:51:03.330 --> 00:51:06.610 align:middle line:90% that, they aren't aware of it. 00:51:06.610 --> 00:51:10.190 align:middle line:84% And sometimes by bringing a level of awareness to it, 00:51:10.190 --> 00:51:11.490 align:middle line:90% it makes it better. 00:51:11.490 --> 00:51:16.720 align:middle line:84% If it's really driven by ego, chances are that won't fix it. 00:51:16.720 --> 00:51:19.380 align:middle line:84% But I think the other way potentially-- 00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:22.000 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you guys have any other thoughts on that. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:23.000 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah. 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.160 align:middle line:84% I took a class on radical candor, 00:51:25.160 --> 00:51:30.400 align:middle line:84% and it is phenomenal if any of you are interested. 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:31.520 align:middle line:90% But it's just that. 00:51:31.520 --> 00:51:36.040 align:middle line:84% It's having very honest conversation 00:51:36.040 --> 00:51:42.480 align:middle line:84% and putting it in the room in a way, not in a-- 00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.140 align:middle line:84% not in a mean way, in a kind way. 00:51:45.140 --> 00:51:47.572 align:middle line:90% So it's very valuable. 00:51:47.572 --> 00:51:49.280 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Is that what you did, Joe? 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:51.360 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: I'm laughing, because my first response would 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.140 align:middle line:84% be, you're making everybody feel stupid. 00:51:53.140 --> 00:51:54.995 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:51:54.995 --> 00:51:56.120 align:middle line:90% I wouldn't really say that. 00:51:56.120 --> 00:51:58.860 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: But that's Kim's kind. 00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:01.240 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Here's what I did once I figured it out. 00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:03.880 align:middle line:84% Took a while to figure out what was going on. 00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:05.820 align:middle line:84% I went and I talked to him about it. 00:52:05.820 --> 00:52:09.880 align:middle line:84% And it wasn't ego, it was just the way he was. 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:14.870 align:middle line:84% And so I said, well, why don't we try this? 00:52:14.870 --> 00:52:18.130 align:middle line:84% Whenever you have meetings with the team or one on one, 00:52:18.130 --> 00:52:20.270 align:middle line:90% why don't I be there too? 00:52:20.270 --> 00:52:24.350 align:middle line:84% And he would kind of say, well, did you think of this? 00:52:24.350 --> 00:52:28.190 align:middle line:84% And I'll just show that I was just as stupid as they were. 00:52:28.190 --> 00:52:31.630 align:middle line:84% And I would point out-- if I'd push back 00:52:31.630 --> 00:52:34.510 align:middle line:84% a little bit against him and sort of get to something, 00:52:34.510 --> 00:52:37.810 align:middle line:84% so they realized they weren't the stupid ones. 00:52:37.810 --> 00:52:40.610 align:middle line:84% It was just-- and so we did that for a while. 00:52:40.610 --> 00:52:43.345 align:middle line:84% It was painful, but eventually he understood. 00:52:43.345 --> 00:52:44.470 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: That's good. 00:52:44.470 --> 00:52:46.220 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So if you don't figure this out, 00:52:46.220 --> 00:52:48.015 align:middle line:84% you're never going to get anywhere. 00:52:48.015 --> 00:52:49.390 align:middle line:84% And by the way, some of the stuff 00:52:49.390 --> 00:52:53.990 align:middle line:84% you asked for is totally off our plan because you stop growing. 00:52:53.990 --> 00:52:55.550 align:middle line:90% So we worked it out. 00:52:55.550 --> 00:52:59.950 align:middle line:90% It took a while and [INAUDIBLE]. 00:52:59.950 --> 00:53:02.190 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Well, he learned. 00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:04.034 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So I was stupid too, then. 00:53:04.034 --> 00:53:06.444 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:53:06.444 --> 00:53:16.140 align:middle line:90% 00:53:16.140 --> 00:53:18.680 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You mentioned bureaucracy a little bit. 00:53:18.680 --> 00:53:21.860 align:middle line:84% And I was wondering, at what level of a company 00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:24.760 align:middle line:84% does that start to be a concern from an HR perspective? 00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:27.020 align:middle line:84% And how do you avoid the pitfalls 00:53:27.020 --> 00:53:29.597 align:middle line:84% of falling into the bureaucratic tendency? 00:53:29.597 --> 00:53:31.180 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: That's a good question. 00:53:31.180 --> 00:53:37.020 align:middle line:84% Well, the nature of the beast of what we do is some of it is-- 00:53:37.020 --> 00:53:39.160 align:middle line:90% HR function has so much to it. 00:53:39.160 --> 00:53:41.620 align:middle line:90% And a lot of it is-- 00:53:41.620 --> 00:53:44.860 align:middle line:84% there's administrative, because we're paying people. 00:53:44.860 --> 00:53:50.540 align:middle line:84% We have to figure out where we slot people in an organization. 00:53:50.540 --> 00:53:54.260 align:middle line:84% You want to make sure you have fairness 00:53:54.260 --> 00:53:56.740 align:middle line:90% and then you have benefits. 00:53:56.740 --> 00:53:58.920 align:middle line:84% And then there's the whole other side of it 00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.640 align:middle line:84% that's more helping your business be successful. 00:54:01.640 --> 00:54:07.580 align:middle line:90% So I think that I always liked-- 00:54:07.580 --> 00:54:09.880 align:middle line:84% Michelle can probably speak to this more. 00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:12.910 align:middle line:90% I think if you had systems-- 00:54:12.910 --> 00:54:15.810 align:middle line:84% and this is where I think technology can help, 00:54:15.810 --> 00:54:19.730 align:middle line:84% if it's managed appropriately when you're structuring 00:54:19.730 --> 00:54:21.230 align:middle line:90% and putting systems in place. 00:54:21.230 --> 00:54:24.450 align:middle line:84% And I'm all for putting systems in place and process in place 00:54:24.450 --> 00:54:28.370 align:middle line:84% early on, because it's much easier to build upon it 00:54:28.370 --> 00:54:29.750 align:middle line:90% than it is to go back. 00:54:29.750 --> 00:54:31.150 align:middle line:90% I joined one company. 00:54:31.150 --> 00:54:33.630 align:middle line:90% It was 500 people when I joined. 00:54:33.630 --> 00:54:35.970 align:middle line:84% There was no-- everybody was doing everything 00:54:35.970 --> 00:54:37.510 align:middle line:90% on spreadsheets. 00:54:37.510 --> 00:54:39.690 align:middle line:90% It was ridiculous. 00:54:39.690 --> 00:54:41.990 align:middle line:90% There was no job structure. 00:54:41.990 --> 00:54:47.370 align:middle line:84% And to go back and retrofit that was just crazy. 00:54:47.370 --> 00:54:49.650 align:middle line:84% But I think you can do it in a way, 00:54:49.650 --> 00:54:53.730 align:middle line:84% if you do it early on, to keep it simple 00:54:53.730 --> 00:54:55.610 align:middle line:84% but yet do the things that you need 00:54:55.610 --> 00:54:58.130 align:middle line:84% to do from a reporting, compliance, 00:54:58.130 --> 00:54:59.217 align:middle line:90% and fairness standpoint. 00:54:59.217 --> 00:55:01.050 align:middle line:84% And I don't know what you would add on that. 00:55:01.050 --> 00:55:04.330 align:middle line:84% Because Michelle, that's what she-- her wheelhouse. 00:55:04.330 --> 00:55:05.330 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah. 00:55:05.330 --> 00:55:09.720 align:middle line:84% I also think you're at a major advantage right now with AI. 00:55:09.720 --> 00:55:13.680 align:middle line:84% So when I think back to when I was 00:55:13.680 --> 00:55:19.120 align:middle line:84% kind of starting to put businesses operationally strong, 00:55:19.120 --> 00:55:21.200 align:middle line:90% I was starting from scratch. 00:55:21.200 --> 00:55:25.400 align:middle line:84% And now you have so much technology at your fingertips 00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:28.460 align:middle line:84% that help you do things even easier. 00:55:28.460 --> 00:55:31.820 align:middle line:84% So when you were talking about policies, and documentation, 00:55:31.820 --> 00:55:36.900 align:middle line:84% my gosh, you could ask ChatGPT to throw up a policy for you. 00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:40.720 align:middle line:84% And then it's not you take that, and then you iterate on it, 00:55:40.720 --> 00:55:43.520 align:middle line:84% and you make it yours, but it's a starting place 00:55:43.520 --> 00:55:45.463 align:middle line:90% and it takes such little time. 00:55:45.463 --> 00:55:46.880 align:middle line:84% The other thing I would say to you 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:49.340 align:middle line:90% is technology is your friend. 00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:51.880 align:middle line:84% You can have really low cost solutions 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:53.800 align:middle line:84% that help put that infrastructure 00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:59.520 align:middle line:84% in place that creates, really, the basis for fairness. 00:55:59.520 --> 00:56:02.420 align:middle line:84% Because your business is-- if it's successful, 00:56:02.420 --> 00:56:03.420 align:middle line:90% it's going to grow. 00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:05.080 align:middle line:84% You're going to hire more people. 00:56:05.080 --> 00:56:08.630 align:middle line:84% You don't want to have to stop and take 00:56:08.630 --> 00:56:12.070 align:middle line:84% the time to go backwards and put things in place 00:56:12.070 --> 00:56:16.930 align:middle line:84% so that you can ensure that it's not noise for your employees. 00:56:16.930 --> 00:56:19.163 align:middle line:84% You know you're paying your employees effectively. 00:56:19.163 --> 00:56:20.830 align:middle line:84% You're giving them the benefits that are 00:56:20.830 --> 00:56:23.030 align:middle line:90% the right benefits for them. 00:56:23.030 --> 00:56:24.550 align:middle line:90% You're staying compliant. 00:56:24.550 --> 00:56:29.670 align:middle line:84% Because the government and legal is going to want to make sure 00:56:29.670 --> 00:56:31.710 align:middle line:84% you're doing all of the things, that you're 00:56:31.710 --> 00:56:33.270 align:middle line:90% staying legally compliant. 00:56:33.270 --> 00:56:35.830 align:middle line:84% And there's a lot of opportunity for you to do it 00:56:35.830 --> 00:56:39.070 align:middle line:90% with low cost technology today. 00:56:39.070 --> 00:56:42.150 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I think the bureaucracy comes in, honestly, 00:56:42.150 --> 00:56:45.310 align:middle line:84% in organizations that get too hierarchical. 00:56:45.310 --> 00:56:48.310 align:middle line:84% I believe in organizations being very flat. 00:56:48.310 --> 00:56:51.310 align:middle line:84% I believe in letting your decision 00:56:51.310 --> 00:56:54.550 align:middle line:84% making be as low in the organization as possible. 00:56:54.550 --> 00:56:56.890 align:middle line:84% People are more engaged, they're more empowered, 00:56:56.890 --> 00:56:59.870 align:middle line:84% and generally, they know what needs to be done. 00:56:59.870 --> 00:57:02.770 align:middle line:84% But that's something, as an organization grows, 00:57:02.770 --> 00:57:03.990 align:middle line:90% sometimes you get away from. 00:57:03.990 --> 00:57:07.140 align:middle line:84% And sometimes it's necessary, but I've 00:57:07.140 --> 00:57:10.560 align:middle line:84% seen more bureaucracy get put into organizations. 00:57:10.560 --> 00:57:12.780 align:middle line:84% Sometimes people like to empire build because it 00:57:12.780 --> 00:57:14.620 align:middle line:90% makes them more important. 00:57:14.620 --> 00:57:18.100 align:middle line:84% And so I always believed in flatter 00:57:18.100 --> 00:57:22.038 align:middle line:90% and not a lot of hierarchy. 00:57:22.038 --> 00:57:23.580 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: I think the test is when 00:57:23.580 --> 00:57:25.080 align:middle line:90% it doesn't make sense anymore. 00:57:25.080 --> 00:57:26.940 align:middle line:84% Then you know you've got too much in. 00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:31.180 align:middle line:84% And at 130,000 employees, I can't tell you how many times 00:57:31.180 --> 00:57:33.280 align:middle line:84% it's-- somebody will tell me, well, Kim, 00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:34.900 align:middle line:90% this is what the process is. 00:57:34.900 --> 00:57:37.180 align:middle line:84% The process is going to prohibit us 00:57:37.180 --> 00:57:40.120 align:middle line:84% from either meeting customer needs or driving revenue. 00:57:40.120 --> 00:57:42.920 align:middle line:84% It just doesn't make sense anymore. 00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:47.080 align:middle line:84% I'm oversimplifying, but it-- so ask yourself the question, 00:57:47.080 --> 00:57:50.348 align:middle line:84% is it getting in the way of you actually running your business? 00:57:50.348 --> 00:57:51.640 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That all makes sense. 00:57:51.640 --> 00:57:53.730 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:57:53.730 --> 00:57:56.900 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: How [INAUDIBLE]. 00:57:56.900 --> 00:58:01.140 align:middle line:84% I started my car business a couple of years ago. 00:58:01.140 --> 00:58:05.490 align:middle line:84% And as a founder [INAUDIBLE] had to learn a lot 00:58:05.490 --> 00:58:07.210 align:middle line:90% to do this sort of thing. 00:58:07.210 --> 00:58:08.970 align:middle line:90% It's actually multi-sector. 00:58:08.970 --> 00:58:11.770 align:middle line:84% And of course, all the time you should get better [INAUDIBLE] 00:58:11.770 --> 00:58:13.010 align:middle line:90% processing this. 00:58:13.010 --> 00:58:17.650 align:middle line:84% And now I'm unsure I can afford to hire people, 00:58:17.650 --> 00:58:21.370 align:middle line:84% and found it super difficult to actually know how to 00:58:21.370 --> 00:58:22.290 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE]. 00:58:22.290 --> 00:58:26.090 align:middle line:84% Because it does not matter how much people work and how much 00:58:26.090 --> 00:58:27.970 align:middle line:90% you love the work. 00:58:27.970 --> 00:58:30.050 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:58:30.050 --> 00:58:35.050 align:middle line:84% And I find it so difficult to keep myself away from studying. 00:58:35.050 --> 00:58:39.810 align:middle line:84% Because it's my baby, and [INAUDIBLE] trying to, 00:58:39.810 --> 00:58:44.020 align:middle line:84% but it's difficult. So I don't know if there's any advice. 00:58:44.020 --> 00:58:45.770 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Well, I've seen that movie. 00:58:45.770 --> 00:58:46.750 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Every day. 00:58:46.750 --> 00:58:47.250 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:58:47.250 --> 00:58:48.610 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 00:58:48.610 --> 00:58:49.910 align:middle line:90% It's hard. 00:58:49.910 --> 00:58:56.970 align:middle line:84% I think, though, as you lead, one of the hardest thing to do 00:58:56.970 --> 00:59:01.290 align:middle line:84% is you have to turn over a little bit of control 00:59:01.290 --> 00:59:04.130 align:middle line:90% of your destiny to others. 00:59:04.130 --> 00:59:09.232 align:middle line:90% And that's hard to do. 00:59:09.232 --> 00:59:10.690 align:middle line:84% And you have to trust, and you have 00:59:10.690 --> 00:59:12.890 align:middle line:84% to have the right people, and all of that 00:59:12.890 --> 00:59:15.330 align:middle line:90% doesn't happen overnight. 00:59:15.330 --> 00:59:18.290 align:middle line:90% But it takes a certain-- 00:59:18.290 --> 00:59:20.390 align:middle line:84% it's a personal growth to be able to do that, 00:59:20.390 --> 00:59:22.970 align:middle line:84% because we want to control the things ourselves, especially 00:59:22.970 --> 00:59:24.670 align:middle line:84% if it's something that we've built. 00:59:24.670 --> 00:59:28.290 align:middle line:90% And I think it's very hard-- 00:59:28.290 --> 00:59:31.990 align:middle line:84% very hard for founders to let go. 00:59:31.990 --> 00:59:34.410 align:middle line:90% It's literally their baby. 00:59:34.410 --> 00:59:38.890 align:middle line:84% And having that balance, I think, will always 00:59:38.890 --> 00:59:42.770 align:middle line:84% be difficult for anybody that's founded an organization 00:59:42.770 --> 00:59:45.210 align:middle line:90% and has to stay with it. 00:59:45.210 --> 00:59:48.890 align:middle line:84% I think, hopefully, the key is having people around you, 00:59:48.890 --> 00:59:51.330 align:middle line:84% like in the example that Joe gave, 00:59:51.330 --> 00:59:54.970 align:middle line:84% that will help you and give you feedback to know maybe 00:59:54.970 --> 00:59:57.010 align:middle line:84% when you need to jump in and maybe when 00:59:57.010 --> 01:00:00.031 align:middle line:90% you need to pull back. 01:00:00.031 --> 01:00:02.777 align:middle line:84% That's, I think, the best advice I could give you. 01:00:02.777 --> 01:00:04.860 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: I think it's reminding yourself, too, 01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:09.640 align:middle line:84% that doing it yourself all the time is not a scalable model. 01:00:09.640 --> 01:00:12.320 align:middle line:84% So that's the hard reality of it is, 01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:16.200 align:middle line:84% is this scalable if I continue to do it myself? 01:00:16.200 --> 01:00:18.280 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: And you'll burn out. 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:19.580 align:middle line:90% You'll get tired. 01:00:19.580 --> 01:00:21.380 align:middle line:90% You'll get you'll get angry. 01:00:21.380 --> 01:00:22.900 align:middle line:90% You'll start snapping. 01:00:22.900 --> 01:00:24.020 align:middle line:90% People will leave. 01:00:24.020 --> 01:00:27.240 align:middle line:84% They're not going to want to be around you. 01:00:27.240 --> 01:00:28.680 align:middle line:90% All of those things. 01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:30.760 align:middle line:84% Trust me, high control right here. 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:33.200 align:middle line:90% I have four children. 01:00:33.200 --> 01:00:34.060 align:middle line:90% Trust me. 01:00:34.060 --> 01:00:35.320 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:39.960 align:middle line:84% I have learned that it's better to let-- better to let go, 01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:43.940 align:middle line:84% and better to help when they need you. 01:00:43.940 --> 01:00:52.668 align:middle line:90% 01:00:52.668 --> 01:00:53.700 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Hi. 01:00:53.700 --> 01:00:56.830 align:middle line:84% So my question is related to hiring. 01:00:56.830 --> 01:01:00.990 align:middle line:84% Now, you've already touched that [INAUDIBLE] you 01:01:00.990 --> 01:01:04.630 align:middle line:84% have your committee and they are engineers from-- one 01:01:04.630 --> 01:01:06.870 align:middle line:84% is software and one is [INAUDIBLE] 01:01:06.870 --> 01:01:08.830 align:middle line:84% machine learning, AI, everything. 01:01:08.830 --> 01:01:12.670 align:middle line:84% And now you're at a place where your product has 01:01:12.670 --> 01:01:16.230 align:middle line:84% gained attention and it's time to expand your team further. 01:01:16.230 --> 01:01:21.030 align:middle line:84% So your [INAUDIBLE] responsible to hire that talent, 01:01:21.030 --> 01:01:24.430 align:middle line:84% but they also fear that they might find someone 01:01:24.430 --> 01:01:26.510 align:middle line:90% who's better than them at it. 01:01:26.510 --> 01:01:29.450 align:middle line:84% Now, you're approaching the founding team, 01:01:29.450 --> 01:01:32.410 align:middle line:84% but you also have that sense that they could be doing this. 01:01:32.410 --> 01:01:38.675 align:middle line:84% How does the founder navigate that very problematic scenario? 01:01:38.675 --> 01:01:40.050 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: It is problematic. 01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:40.150 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Yeah. 01:01:40.150 --> 01:01:41.270 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: You want to jump? 01:01:41.270 --> 01:01:42.020 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Yeah. 01:01:42.020 --> 01:01:44.710 align:middle line:90% 01:01:44.710 --> 01:01:47.110 align:middle line:84% I think you have to stay close to the team that's 01:01:47.110 --> 01:01:52.470 align:middle line:84% hiring to have a common ground in terms of what you're hiring. 01:01:52.470 --> 01:01:54.110 align:middle line:84% There's a level of letting them do it 01:01:54.110 --> 01:01:56.840 align:middle line:84% and trying to go through the candidate selection process, 01:01:56.840 --> 01:01:58.900 align:middle line:84% but also keeping your finger-- we 01:01:58.900 --> 01:02:00.960 align:middle line:84% talk about our general management team. 01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:04.920 align:middle line:84% Anybody who's in a GM role, you're an inch off the ground. 01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:08.060 align:middle line:84% So you're keeping a close enough level to the detail 01:02:08.060 --> 01:02:10.640 align:middle line:84% and how they're hiring or what they're looking for. 01:02:10.640 --> 01:02:15.740 align:middle line:84% You'll see the insecurities in it if it's there. 01:02:15.740 --> 01:02:20.800 align:middle line:84% And quite honestly, how you quickly rectify it, 01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:23.240 align:middle line:84% you take it much more on a personal level, 01:02:23.240 --> 01:02:26.600 align:middle line:84% helping them feel good about what they're hiring in, 01:02:26.600 --> 01:02:30.300 align:middle line:84% the experiences that they can convey to the new hires, 01:02:30.300 --> 01:02:31.400 align:middle line:90% and things of that nature. 01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:36.100 align:middle line:84% You can bolster their ego up so that the insecurity that's there 01:02:36.100 --> 01:02:37.268 align:middle line:90% is a little bit less. 01:02:37.268 --> 01:02:39.060 align:middle line:84% But I think as you're growing, you probably 01:02:39.060 --> 01:02:41.268 align:middle line:84% want to stay a little bit closer to who you're hiring 01:02:41.268 --> 01:02:43.620 align:middle line:84% and who is making the hiring decisions for you, 01:02:43.620 --> 01:02:46.162 align:middle line:90% because it's costly. 01:02:46.162 --> 01:02:48.620 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I also think that, in all the companies I've 01:02:48.620 --> 01:02:52.475 align:middle line:84% worked in, we had a very elaborate hiring process. 01:02:52.475 --> 01:02:53.850 align:middle line:84% Almost everybody and their mother 01:02:53.850 --> 01:02:56.670 align:middle line:84% would interview the people that were coming in. 01:02:56.670 --> 01:03:00.730 align:middle line:84% And the good news about that is that it does give you more 01:03:00.730 --> 01:03:02.990 align:middle line:84% buy in for the candidate, ultimately. 01:03:02.990 --> 01:03:06.850 align:middle line:84% But sometimes it lengthens the process. 01:03:06.850 --> 01:03:11.410 align:middle line:84% I've seen us lose candidates because our hiring process was 01:03:11.410 --> 01:03:12.610 align:middle line:90% too inclusive. 01:03:12.610 --> 01:03:17.050 align:middle line:84% The other thing too is the hiring manager 01:03:17.050 --> 01:03:19.510 align:middle line:90% should make that final decision. 01:03:19.510 --> 01:03:22.770 align:middle line:84% And I think having clarity around that-- yes, I'll 01:03:22.770 --> 01:03:24.030 align:middle line:90% take all your input. 01:03:24.030 --> 01:03:28.570 align:middle line:84% But ultimately, say you see a candidate that is higher skilled 01:03:28.570 --> 01:03:30.790 align:middle line:84% and that's going to complement the team. 01:03:30.790 --> 01:03:33.250 align:middle line:84% Some of the other people that might have been up here 01:03:33.250 --> 01:03:35.290 align:middle line:90% may not have supported that. 01:03:35.290 --> 01:03:37.550 align:middle line:84% They may have felt threatened by something like that. 01:03:37.550 --> 01:03:41.770 align:middle line:84% So I think real clarity around who the decision maker is, and I 01:03:41.770 --> 01:03:44.710 align:middle line:84% think a groupthink isn't always the best. 01:03:44.710 --> 01:03:46.790 align:middle line:84% I think it's good to take everyone's input, 01:03:46.790 --> 01:03:50.402 align:middle line:84% but then you make your own decision. 01:03:50.402 --> 01:03:53.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Another question regarding 01:03:53.160 --> 01:03:56.760 align:middle line:84% interpersonal relationships and [INAUDIBLE]. 01:03:56.760 --> 01:03:59.680 align:middle line:84% Now another scenario-- you actually 01:03:59.680 --> 01:04:01.960 align:middle line:90% responded to him about that. 01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:04.760 align:middle line:84% You can have a judgment from everyone 01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:10.480 align:middle line:84% in [INAUDIBLE] an opinion and discuss it with them. 01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:13.400 align:middle line:84% I've seen a scenario where, obviously, the founder 01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:14.880 align:middle line:90% has authority. 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:17.240 align:middle line:84% And although everyone sitting in front of him 01:04:17.240 --> 01:04:21.480 align:middle line:84% all around the table, people fear 01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:24.540 align:middle line:84% that if they talk about office politics, 01:04:24.540 --> 01:04:29.040 align:middle line:84% that's disrupting the normal operations or productivity. 01:04:29.040 --> 01:04:32.960 align:middle line:84% And the reason being is someone close to the founder, 01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:36.840 align:middle line:84% they fear that mentioning that would obviously 01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:39.120 align:middle line:84% have other person mentioned to the founder 01:04:39.120 --> 01:04:43.400 align:middle line:84% that this is the reason that they [INAUDIBLE] in politics. 01:04:43.400 --> 01:04:47.520 align:middle line:84% Now, that's another scenario where you are trusting someone, 01:04:47.520 --> 01:04:49.637 align:middle line:84% but you are giving your own opinion. 01:04:49.637 --> 01:04:50.470 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 01:04:50.470 --> 01:04:52.310 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But you still have to decide who 01:04:52.310 --> 01:04:55.097 align:middle line:90% you lean on in this situation. 01:04:55.097 --> 01:04:55.930 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 01:04:55.930 --> 01:04:58.710 align:middle line:84% I think that that's hard, and I can 01:04:58.710 --> 01:05:01.230 align:middle line:84% see how that has that can be an issue, especially 01:05:01.230 --> 01:05:03.070 align:middle line:90% in a small organization. 01:05:03.070 --> 01:05:06.270 align:middle line:84% I think that over time, you will have-- 01:05:06.270 --> 01:05:09.990 align:middle line:84% or the founder will have-- you will always 01:05:09.990 --> 01:05:15.590 align:middle line:84% have a more trusted colleague, but trust goes both ways. 01:05:15.590 --> 01:05:19.230 align:middle line:84% And I think that I would judge people 01:05:19.230 --> 01:05:23.270 align:middle line:90% by their behavior and actions. 01:05:23.270 --> 01:05:29.510 align:middle line:84% And if someone is not operating in good faith or breaching 01:05:29.510 --> 01:05:34.490 align:middle line:84% confidences or whatever the case may be, 01:05:34.490 --> 01:05:38.090 align:middle line:84% I would think about my level of trust with that person. 01:05:38.090 --> 01:05:42.050 align:middle line:84% I would try to talk about it or get it to be better. 01:05:42.050 --> 01:05:45.830 align:middle line:84% But I think that those are human dynamics that are always 01:05:45.830 --> 01:05:47.820 align:middle line:84% going to happen, and there's going 01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:52.000 align:middle line:84% to be people that you know you can just count on. 01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:56.500 align:middle line:84% And I might weight that person's input more heavily based 01:05:56.500 --> 01:05:58.460 align:middle line:84% on my experience, and their honesty, 01:05:58.460 --> 01:06:01.520 align:middle line:84% and what have you, if that's helpful. 01:06:01.520 --> 01:06:02.020 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:06:02.020 --> 01:06:05.820 align:middle line:90% 01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:08.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So all these issues discussed 01:06:08.260 --> 01:06:11.920 align:middle line:84% are quite complex, closely related to human behavior, 01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:13.660 align:middle line:90% emotions, stuff like that. 01:06:13.660 --> 01:06:18.220 align:middle line:84% But at the current age of AI, I wonder 01:06:18.220 --> 01:06:20.380 align:middle line:84% in terms of all this [INAUDIBLE], all 01:06:20.380 --> 01:06:23.820 align:middle line:84% this experience, all this [? insight ?] 01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:29.700 align:middle line:84% where the founder [INAUDIBLE] working for a system. 01:06:29.700 --> 01:06:34.260 align:middle line:84% Is there any particular kind of tool that you recommend, 01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:38.840 align:middle line:84% resource that people [INAUDIBLE] tons of experience, 01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:39.960 align:middle line:90% tons of insight. 01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:42.860 align:middle line:84% But at the same time, is there some resources 01:06:42.860 --> 01:06:46.530 align:middle line:84% out there [INAUDIBLE] on a daily basis, something 01:06:46.530 --> 01:06:53.140 align:middle line:84% that you would like to give some guidance on? 01:06:53.140 --> 01:06:55.650 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: There's a lot of different things. 01:06:55.650 --> 01:06:57.770 align:middle line:84% So why don't you guys talk about some 01:06:57.770 --> 01:07:00.450 align:middle line:84% of your experiences and I can jump in on that. 01:07:00.450 --> 01:07:02.850 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah, there are a lot. 01:07:02.850 --> 01:07:04.930 align:middle line:84% Do I believe that there's an assistant that 01:07:04.930 --> 01:07:07.110 align:middle line:90% would take over our role today? 01:07:07.110 --> 01:07:09.490 align:middle line:90% No, I don't. 01:07:09.490 --> 01:07:12.410 align:middle line:90% But I'm an embracer of AI. 01:07:12.410 --> 01:07:15.690 align:middle line:84% I know that there are folks that are nervous about it, 01:07:15.690 --> 01:07:21.530 align:middle line:84% and rightfully so, but I do see a lot of potential coming. 01:07:21.530 --> 01:07:25.130 align:middle line:84% And this may be more than what you're looking for right now. 01:07:25.130 --> 01:07:28.570 align:middle line:84% But I have spent a lot of time with LinkedIn, 01:07:28.570 --> 01:07:33.570 align:middle line:84% and in the hiring space with LinkedIn, and LinkedIn Learning. 01:07:33.570 --> 01:07:39.050 align:middle line:84% And the technology that they have embedded in their product 01:07:39.050 --> 01:07:41.530 align:middle line:84% that you can use is extraordinary. 01:07:41.530 --> 01:07:44.920 align:middle line:84% So it's not quite an assistant yet 01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:50.200 align:middle line:84% that you may be looking for outside of ChatGPT 01:07:50.200 --> 01:07:54.960 align:middle line:84% or the bots that are popping up everywhere. 01:07:54.960 --> 01:08:01.320 align:middle line:84% But from a platform perspective that gives you good guidance 01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:04.680 align:middle line:84% at a relatively reasonable price, 01:08:04.680 --> 01:08:06.980 align:middle line:84% LinkedIn has a lot embedded in it. 01:08:06.980 --> 01:08:10.800 align:middle line:84% And they're really investing in their AI technologies. 01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:13.620 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I think, from a self-development standpoint, 01:08:13.620 --> 01:08:15.520 align:middle line:84% there are things that you can do too. 01:08:15.520 --> 01:08:19.680 align:middle line:84% I think that, hopefully, we're all a work in progress 01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:21.300 align:middle line:90% as long as we are on this Earth. 01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:25.040 align:middle line:84% And so I think it's important to try 01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:28.160 align:middle line:90% to be as self-aware as we can. 01:08:28.160 --> 01:08:31.520 align:middle line:84% There's programs that we participated 01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:35.660 align:middle line:84% in, we made an investment in the company, we worked in together. 01:08:35.660 --> 01:08:38.160 align:middle line:84% This model still exists, and it's 01:08:38.160 --> 01:08:41.850 align:middle line:84% one of the most powerful models I ever worked with. 01:08:41.850 --> 01:08:42.850 align:middle line:90% I still use it. 01:08:42.850 --> 01:08:45.870 align:middle line:84% It's called process communication model, 01:08:45.870 --> 01:08:52.069 align:middle line:84% and it's very similar-- it's a basis of a Myers-Briggs-- people 01:08:52.069 --> 01:08:55.229 align:middle line:84% seem to know that a personality type. 01:08:55.229 --> 01:08:59.810 align:middle line:84% But this talks about how people evolve and change over time. 01:08:59.810 --> 01:09:04.270 align:middle line:84% It also talks about how people react under stress. 01:09:04.270 --> 01:09:06.350 align:middle line:84% At one point many years ago, I was certified 01:09:06.350 --> 01:09:08.090 align:middle line:90% to teach this program. 01:09:08.090 --> 01:09:13.510 align:middle line:84% But we incorporated it into our work, and training, 01:09:13.510 --> 01:09:15.850 align:middle line:84% and our management development and all that. 01:09:15.850 --> 01:09:19.490 align:middle line:84% And then I did it in three different companies. 01:09:19.490 --> 01:09:24.370 align:middle line:84% And it really helped for a level of self-awareness, first of all, 01:09:24.370 --> 01:09:27.830 align:middle line:84% but also help people for self understanding and working 01:09:27.830 --> 01:09:28.689 align:middle line:90% together. 01:09:28.689 --> 01:09:31.330 align:middle line:84% And there may be some better tools out there now. 01:09:31.330 --> 01:09:35.550 align:middle line:84% But I think the degree to which we can work on our own 01:09:35.550 --> 01:09:39.109 align:middle line:84% self-development and that will come through our own work, 01:09:39.109 --> 01:09:40.510 align:middle line:90% not so much-- 01:09:40.510 --> 01:09:42.750 align:middle line:84% AI can maybe give us some tools that we 01:09:42.750 --> 01:09:46.290 align:middle line:84% can look at for that to use for a level of self-awareness. 01:09:46.290 --> 01:09:48.370 align:middle line:90% I think that that's helpful too. 01:09:48.370 --> 01:10:00.418 align:middle line:90% 01:10:00.418 --> 01:10:04.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So my understanding is that the first few employees 01:10:04.390 --> 01:10:08.310 align:middle line:84% that you hire for the company are crucial to forming 01:10:08.310 --> 01:10:10.390 align:middle line:90% the culture of the company. 01:10:10.390 --> 01:10:14.790 align:middle line:84% So let's say, hypothetically, you start the company 01:10:14.790 --> 01:10:18.085 align:middle line:84% and you're hiring your first few employees, 01:10:18.085 --> 01:10:19.710 align:middle line:84% and you're interviewing someone and you 01:10:19.710 --> 01:10:21.750 align:middle line:84% think that they're very technically 01:10:21.750 --> 01:10:24.125 align:middle line:84% qualified for the position, but you're not sure 01:10:24.125 --> 01:10:25.750 align:middle line:84% if they'd be a good fit for the culture 01:10:25.750 --> 01:10:28.310 align:middle line:90% that you're trying to cultivate. 01:10:28.310 --> 01:10:30.430 align:middle line:84% Firstly, is there anything you think 01:10:30.430 --> 01:10:34.790 align:middle line:84% you could do about that to sort of meld them to the culture 01:10:34.790 --> 01:10:36.470 align:middle line:90% that you want to perform? 01:10:36.470 --> 01:10:38.620 align:middle line:84% Secondly, do you think it's worth finding somebody 01:10:38.620 --> 01:10:42.580 align:middle line:84% that you think might be less technically qualified, 01:10:42.580 --> 01:10:46.980 align:middle line:84% but a better fit for the culture that you create? 01:10:46.980 --> 01:10:48.247 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Oh that's hard. 01:10:48.247 --> 01:10:49.580 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: It is a hard one. 01:10:49.580 --> 01:10:51.242 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: I have a bias. 01:10:51.242 --> 01:10:53.200 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: It's just like a spouse, though. 01:10:53.200 --> 01:10:54.600 align:middle line:84% You're never going to change them. 01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:56.808 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: You're never going to change them. 01:10:56.808 --> 01:10:58.500 align:middle line:90% 100%, yeah, so I don't know. 01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:01.060 align:middle line:90% I'm a gut hirer. 01:11:01.060 --> 01:11:04.140 align:middle line:84% So if I feel in my gut that person's not 01:11:04.140 --> 01:11:07.120 align:middle line:84% going to meld with the rest of my team, 01:11:07.120 --> 01:11:11.100 align:middle line:84% I never hire them regardless of what their technical acumen is. 01:11:11.100 --> 01:11:14.360 align:middle line:84% But that may not be the case for everyone else. 01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:16.900 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: I'll give you another example of-- 01:11:16.900 --> 01:11:18.120 align:middle line:90% I agree with Michelle. 01:11:18.120 --> 01:11:19.940 align:middle line:84% I think in a small environment, it's 01:11:19.940 --> 01:11:22.000 align:middle line:90% critical to have the connection. 01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:26.380 align:middle line:90% 01:11:26.380 --> 01:11:28.700 align:middle line:84% However, I will give you an example 01:11:28.700 --> 01:11:32.860 align:middle line:84% of we have somebody in the company 01:11:32.860 --> 01:11:37.210 align:middle line:84% that I worked with, he's like, mass spectrometry god 01:11:37.210 --> 01:11:40.230 align:middle line:90% and he drives us crazy. 01:11:40.230 --> 01:11:43.082 align:middle line:84% But because he is who he is-- so a couple of things. 01:11:43.082 --> 01:11:45.290 align:middle line:84% One, if they're so technically competent-- two things 01:11:45.290 --> 01:11:46.082 align:middle line:90% that I'll tell you. 01:11:46.082 --> 01:11:48.610 align:middle line:84% If they're going to advance your technology and you 01:11:48.610 --> 01:11:50.850 align:middle line:84% can figure out how to manage them and manage 01:11:50.850 --> 01:11:52.730 align:middle line:90% the relationship, OK. 01:11:52.730 --> 01:11:55.530 align:middle line:84% Second, if you want to keep them out 01:11:55.530 --> 01:11:58.770 align:middle line:84% of the hands of your competitors, OK. 01:11:58.770 --> 01:12:02.650 align:middle line:84% So I think it's a balance of how disruptive their behavior would 01:12:02.650 --> 01:12:07.810 align:middle line:84% be to your culture versus the benefit of the capabilities they 01:12:07.810 --> 01:12:08.868 align:middle line:90% bring. 01:12:08.868 --> 01:12:10.410 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah, that's fair. 01:12:10.410 --> 01:12:12.850 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: And maybe like the instance 01:12:12.850 --> 01:12:16.410 align:middle line:84% that Joe talked about, is it something is-- 01:12:16.410 --> 01:12:18.370 align:middle line:90% it the core of that person? 01:12:18.370 --> 01:12:21.610 align:middle line:90% Is it a character flaw? 01:12:21.610 --> 01:12:26.570 align:middle line:84% If it's a character flaw, those aren't easy to fix. 01:12:26.570 --> 01:12:32.330 align:middle line:84% If someone is mean spirited or so ego-- or narcissistic 01:12:32.330 --> 01:12:35.520 align:middle line:84% or any of those things, even they might be brilliant, 01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:38.240 align:middle line:90% it would be toxic. 01:12:38.240 --> 01:12:41.280 align:middle line:84% Sometimes people are oblivious, or they're so focused 01:12:41.280 --> 01:12:42.880 align:middle line:84% on something or they're not aware 01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:51.320 align:middle line:84% that they're doing something, then that can work. 01:12:51.320 --> 01:12:54.760 align:middle line:90% But Kim's advice is good too. 01:12:54.760 --> 01:12:56.520 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: Keep them in a closet. 01:12:56.520 --> 01:12:58.160 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: Sometimes you put that person over in a box. 01:12:58.160 --> 01:12:59.780 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: How bad do you need it? 01:12:59.780 --> 01:13:02.160 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 01:13:02.160 --> 01:13:04.320 align:middle line:84% And what is that person's needs too? 01:13:04.320 --> 01:13:06.740 align:middle line:84% That person might just want to go develop the technology. 01:13:06.740 --> 01:13:09.020 align:middle line:84% They may not care so much about the interactions. 01:13:09.020 --> 01:13:09.620 align:middle line:90% Who knows? 01:13:09.620 --> 01:13:16.355 align:middle line:90% 01:13:16.355 --> 01:13:18.480 align:middle line:84% I don't know if we have-- do you have any questions 01:13:18.480 --> 01:13:19.840 align:middle line:90% for the people in the-- 01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:20.900 align:middle line:90% online at all? 01:13:20.900 --> 01:13:21.400 align:middle line:90% No? 01:13:21.400 --> 01:13:23.840 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:26.400 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yep, there's someone up there. 01:13:26.400 --> 01:13:27.460 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: Right there. 01:13:27.460 --> 01:13:28.500 align:middle line:90% Right up back. 01:13:28.500 --> 01:13:29.040 align:middle line:90% Nope. 01:13:29.040 --> 01:13:30.240 align:middle line:90% Nope. 01:13:30.240 --> 01:13:31.570 align:middle line:90% Right up behind you. 01:13:31.570 --> 01:13:34.670 align:middle line:90% 01:13:34.670 --> 01:13:37.110 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah, go ahead. 01:13:37.110 --> 01:13:41.750 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Just holding on to that question of-- 01:13:41.750 --> 01:13:45.750 align:middle line:84% OK, I'm still young, so I don't have so much experience. 01:13:45.750 --> 01:13:49.550 align:middle line:84% But I've seen people change over time 01:13:49.550 --> 01:13:52.830 align:middle line:84% and see that they were very mean before but then certain life 01:13:52.830 --> 01:13:55.910 align:middle line:90% experiences made them change. 01:13:55.910 --> 01:14:00.790 align:middle line:84% So in that aspect, do you think people 01:14:00.790 --> 01:14:04.150 align:middle line:84% can change if they were mean and not easy to work with, 01:14:04.150 --> 01:14:06.110 align:middle line:84% but then certain things happen in life? 01:14:06.110 --> 01:14:07.070 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 01:14:07.070 --> 01:14:09.487 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And what are the kind of examples have you seen? 01:14:09.487 --> 01:14:11.870 align:middle line:84% And what percentage would you put? 01:14:11.870 --> 01:14:13.410 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: I think people can. 01:14:13.410 --> 01:14:17.830 align:middle line:84% So that model that I told you I like-- 01:14:17.830 --> 01:14:20.730 align:middle line:84% the premise of how people change-- 01:14:20.730 --> 01:14:23.550 align:middle line:84% and this is true to my own life experience, OK? 01:14:23.550 --> 01:14:27.990 align:middle line:84% People change under periods of profound stress, 01:14:27.990 --> 01:14:31.257 align:middle line:84% when their own needs aren't being met anymore. 01:14:31.257 --> 01:14:33.340 align:middle line:84% So you have to do something different because life 01:14:33.340 --> 01:14:35.220 align:middle line:90% isn't working for you. 01:14:35.220 --> 01:14:36.680 align:middle line:90% And it isn't necessarily-- 01:14:36.680 --> 01:14:38.760 align:middle line:84% I mean, sometimes it happens with a tragedy. 01:14:38.760 --> 01:14:41.860 align:middle line:84% Unfortunately, sometimes someone dies. 01:14:41.860 --> 01:14:45.260 align:middle line:90% Sometimes someone gets ill. 01:14:45.260 --> 01:14:48.680 align:middle line:84% And sometimes life's just not working for you, 01:14:48.680 --> 01:14:50.500 align:middle line:84% and so you have to do something different. 01:14:50.500 --> 01:14:53.160 align:middle line:84% I have seen people change with that. 01:14:53.160 --> 01:14:57.920 align:middle line:84% I've also seen people go through real tragedies 01:14:57.920 --> 01:15:03.900 align:middle line:90% and they were still wonderful. 01:15:03.900 --> 01:15:07.580 align:middle line:84% And they didn't let the tragedy get them down or whatever. 01:15:07.580 --> 01:15:12.640 align:middle line:84% And so, as human beings, I think we are remarkable 01:15:12.640 --> 01:15:15.640 align:middle line:84% in that we can still change, and we can learn, and whatever. 01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:19.100 align:middle line:84% But I do think that's when I've seen 01:15:19.100 --> 01:15:21.920 align:middle line:90% the change happen with people. 01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:25.680 align:middle line:84% And sometimes people aren't successful. 01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:29.150 align:middle line:84% I've seen a person that was very good at what she did, 01:15:29.150 --> 01:15:31.530 align:middle line:84% but she got fired from a lot of jobs 01:15:31.530 --> 01:15:35.330 align:middle line:84% because she didn't work well with others. 01:15:35.330 --> 01:15:37.650 align:middle line:84% But the quality of her work was really good, 01:15:37.650 --> 01:15:39.470 align:middle line:90% and this person now is-- 01:15:39.470 --> 01:15:41.510 align:middle line:84% I've known her almost her whole life. 01:15:41.510 --> 01:15:43.610 align:middle line:90% She's, I'd say, in her mid-50s. 01:15:43.610 --> 01:15:49.170 align:middle line:84% She's finally come to it, that it was her own need 01:15:49.170 --> 01:15:54.770 align:middle line:84% to have high achievement and not be collegial that got in the way 01:15:54.770 --> 01:15:57.650 align:middle line:84% and caused her to lose her jobs over time. 01:15:57.650 --> 01:16:01.230 align:middle line:84% And she's been much more successful later in life, 01:16:01.230 --> 01:16:04.390 align:middle line:84% but she's kind of learned what she had to learn. 01:16:04.390 --> 01:16:07.290 align:middle line:90% 01:16:07.290 --> 01:16:09.730 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: I think what I would ask you is-- 01:16:09.730 --> 01:16:14.070 align:middle line:84% people change when they want to or experience changes. 01:16:14.070 --> 01:16:17.570 align:middle line:84% And as founders, do you want to take 01:16:17.570 --> 01:16:22.450 align:middle line:84% the time, the precious time at the beginning of your journey, 01:16:22.450 --> 01:16:25.960 align:middle line:84% to hire people that may have to change 01:16:25.960 --> 01:16:27.607 align:middle line:90% to fit into your organization? 01:16:27.607 --> 01:16:28.440 align:middle line:90% VIVIAN VITALE: Yeah. 01:16:28.440 --> 01:16:35.720 align:middle line:90% 01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:37.160 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I have two questions. 01:16:37.160 --> 01:16:43.540 align:middle line:84% Before [INAUDIBLE] to start with a very few small group of people 01:16:43.540 --> 01:16:46.640 align:middle line:84% and they are at a very early stage 01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:49.280 align:middle line:84% and are not familiar with the business world, probably not 01:16:49.280 --> 01:16:49.780 align:middle line:90% at all. 01:16:49.780 --> 01:16:51.760 align:middle line:84% But they have a very good product 01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:54.000 align:middle line:84% and they are very good at what they 01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:57.100 align:middle line:84% do, just do not have the knowledge in that area. 01:16:57.100 --> 01:17:02.520 align:middle line:84% So at that stage, probably having an HR person 01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:05.400 align:middle line:84% is not the main concern of the founder. 01:17:05.400 --> 01:17:08.880 align:middle line:84% Maybe having a lawyer who [INAUDIBLE] would be having 01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:10.920 align:middle line:90% an accountant who [INAUDIBLE]. 01:17:10.920 --> 01:17:13.520 align:middle line:90% 01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:16.360 align:middle line:84% When is an appropriate time for someone 01:17:16.360 --> 01:17:18.820 align:middle line:84% to start maybe acquiring an HR person, 01:17:18.820 --> 01:17:21.320 align:middle line:84% and why is that related to the number of people 01:17:21.320 --> 01:17:26.350 align:middle line:84% who are working in the company, the type of the company 01:17:26.350 --> 01:17:27.570 align:middle line:90% or stage? 01:17:27.570 --> 01:17:30.650 align:middle line:84% I would like to [INAUDIBLE] on that part. 01:17:30.650 --> 01:17:37.710 align:middle line:84% And second, many people already talked about the culture. 01:17:37.710 --> 01:17:40.630 align:middle line:84% Again, this is a term that not everybody 01:17:40.630 --> 01:17:45.830 align:middle line:84% is necessarily familiar with because [INAUDIBLE] 01:17:45.830 --> 01:17:48.290 align:middle line:84% the whole system operates, your business plan, 01:17:48.290 --> 01:17:49.930 align:middle line:90% your marketing strategy. 01:17:49.930 --> 01:17:53.990 align:middle line:84% So for people who are not familiar with this area, again, 01:17:53.990 --> 01:17:57.590 align:middle line:84% what are some questions that they should 01:17:57.590 --> 01:18:00.470 align:middle line:84% think about when they're in the process of choosing 01:18:00.470 --> 01:18:01.470 align:middle line:90% their culture? 01:18:01.470 --> 01:18:03.390 align:middle line:84% And if you could give us an example, maybe 01:18:03.390 --> 01:18:07.350 align:middle line:84% the companies that you already know so [INAUDIBLE]. 01:18:07.350 --> 01:18:08.605 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:18:08.605 --> 01:18:10.730 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: You have a bunch of questions there. 01:18:10.730 --> 01:18:12.980 align:middle line:84% I'm going to let you guys talk about the culture part, 01:18:12.980 --> 01:18:16.590 align:middle line:84% and I'll talk about who you hire. 01:18:16.590 --> 01:18:20.650 align:middle line:84% I think that it depends what your needs are. 01:18:20.650 --> 01:18:23.940 align:middle line:84% If early on you need some help in terms 01:18:23.940 --> 01:18:27.180 align:middle line:84% of thinking of your structure, thinking 01:18:27.180 --> 01:18:29.620 align:middle line:84% about what you want your culture to be or whatever, 01:18:29.620 --> 01:18:32.220 align:middle line:84% I would say work with a trusted advisor 01:18:32.220 --> 01:18:36.760 align:middle line:90% or people to help you do that. 01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:42.740 align:middle line:84% I did some consulting and work with a venture capital company 01:18:42.740 --> 01:18:47.660 align:middle line:84% that had invested in the last company I worked in. 01:18:47.660 --> 01:18:52.900 align:middle line:84% And I would do some sessions with those folks. 01:18:52.900 --> 01:18:55.620 align:middle line:84% What I found-- and this is just on the basis of my own 01:18:55.620 --> 01:18:57.460 align:middle line:90% experience-- 01:18:57.460 --> 01:19:02.200 align:middle line:84% around 25 to 50 people in an organization, 01:19:02.200 --> 01:19:04.860 align:middle line:84% you needed some of outside advice. 01:19:04.860 --> 01:19:07.660 align:middle line:84% Typically, people would bring in-- 01:19:07.660 --> 01:19:09.940 align:middle line:84% have outside legal advice if they needed it 01:19:09.940 --> 01:19:12.820 align:middle line:84% and hire that on a contract basis. 01:19:12.820 --> 01:19:15.700 align:middle line:84% They tended to bring in a financial person 01:19:15.700 --> 01:19:18.500 align:middle line:84% before they would bring in a human resource person. 01:19:18.500 --> 01:19:20.890 align:middle line:84% And probably, that is more the need. 01:19:20.890 --> 01:19:21.950 align:middle line:90% You have to pay people. 01:19:21.950 --> 01:19:25.930 align:middle line:84% You have to do some of the more financial things early on. 01:19:25.930 --> 01:19:27.510 align:middle line:84% The one thing I would say, though, 01:19:27.510 --> 01:19:30.610 align:middle line:84% is a lot of times in most of these early companies, when they 01:19:30.610 --> 01:19:32.930 align:middle line:84% do hire their HR person, they have the HR person work 01:19:32.930 --> 01:19:34.490 align:middle line:90% for the finance person. 01:19:34.490 --> 01:19:36.490 align:middle line:90% Don't do that. 01:19:36.490 --> 01:19:41.450 align:middle line:84% It really is better to have that function separate because it's 01:19:41.450 --> 01:19:45.690 align:middle line:84% as important in a different way, and to give that person 01:19:45.690 --> 01:19:48.170 align:middle line:90% equal status. 01:19:48.170 --> 01:19:50.270 align:middle line:84% And so that's what I would say about that. 01:19:50.270 --> 01:19:53.770 align:middle line:84% And I think the second part of your culture question, 01:19:53.770 --> 01:19:55.870 align:middle line:84% maybe these guys can chime in on. 01:19:55.870 --> 01:19:58.477 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: Yeah, I think that when you think about, 01:19:58.477 --> 01:20:00.810 align:middle line:84% culture and what are some of the questions that you ask, 01:20:00.810 --> 01:20:05.730 align:middle line:84% you go back to, again, what is your mission or the value 01:20:05.730 --> 01:20:08.970 align:middle line:90% of the company or your product? 01:20:08.970 --> 01:20:11.630 align:middle line:84% How do you take that into your employee population? 01:20:11.630 --> 01:20:12.990 align:middle line:90% How do you want it to feel? 01:20:12.990 --> 01:20:15.210 align:middle line:84% What are going to be the common values that you 01:20:15.210 --> 01:20:17.570 align:middle line:90% have amongst your employees? 01:20:17.570 --> 01:20:19.310 align:middle line:90% Is it level of integrity? 01:20:19.310 --> 01:20:21.310 align:middle line:84% Is it the amount of intensity that you have. 01:20:21.310 --> 01:20:22.770 align:middle line:90% How do you want to be known? 01:20:22.770 --> 01:20:26.090 align:middle line:84% And then I think you take that into how 01:20:26.090 --> 01:20:30.090 align:middle line:84% do you take what you're producing, you take the values, 01:20:30.090 --> 01:20:35.410 align:middle line:84% and you enable a level of excitement amongst yourself 01:20:35.410 --> 01:20:38.510 align:middle line:84% and your colleagues to achieve that. 01:20:38.510 --> 01:20:40.810 align:middle line:84% And that could be-- there's different exercises 01:20:40.810 --> 01:20:41.477 align:middle line:90% that you can do. 01:20:41.477 --> 01:20:42.852 align:middle line:84% And so when you look into culture 01:20:42.852 --> 01:20:44.370 align:middle line:84% and how to create a culture, you can 01:20:44.370 --> 01:20:46.910 align:middle line:84% do a lot of different research on how do you do that. 01:20:46.910 --> 01:20:49.723 align:middle line:84% You create values, you create your mission statement. 01:20:49.723 --> 01:20:51.890 align:middle line:84% But I think it's something that you actually put pen 01:20:51.890 --> 01:20:55.850 align:middle line:84% to paper, just like you would goals, so that you can-- 01:20:55.850 --> 01:20:58.783 align:middle line:84% it's something that you pick up even on your hardest days 01:20:58.783 --> 01:21:00.450 align:middle line:84% and you're like, OK, are we living the-- 01:21:00.450 --> 01:21:02.130 align:middle line:90% are we living the mission? 01:21:02.130 --> 01:21:03.530 align:middle line:90% Is the culture still there? 01:21:03.530 --> 01:21:06.810 align:middle line:84% It's something that you can-- that's constant. 01:21:06.810 --> 01:21:07.810 align:middle line:90% MICHELE BONENFANT: Yeah. 01:21:07.810 --> 01:21:09.190 align:middle line:90% I agree with Kim. 01:21:09.190 --> 01:21:12.530 align:middle line:84% I think that it's an exercise you have to go through. 01:21:12.530 --> 01:21:16.720 align:middle line:84% What is important to you as a company? 01:21:16.720 --> 01:21:21.260 align:middle line:84% So to those founders, what do they get up for every day? 01:21:21.260 --> 01:21:23.560 align:middle line:84% What is important for them to see 01:21:23.560 --> 01:21:26.200 align:middle line:90% in their employees every day? 01:21:26.200 --> 01:21:30.840 align:middle line:84% And I do, I think you put it pen to paper and you write it down. 01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:33.100 align:middle line:84% And it's your values, and your mission, 01:21:33.100 --> 01:21:34.980 align:middle line:84% and I think your culture comes out of that. 01:21:34.980 --> 01:21:38.200 align:middle line:90% 01:21:38.200 --> 01:21:43.000 align:middle line:84% KIM CROWLEY: I wish I knew how to spell his last name, but I-- 01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:45.540 align:middle line:84% so the last company that I was at, it was a smaller company, 01:21:45.540 --> 01:21:47.880 align:middle line:84% and it was a conglomerate of a bunch of small companies 01:21:47.880 --> 01:21:48.820 align:middle line:90% that were bought. 01:21:48.820 --> 01:21:51.320 align:middle line:84% And what I first realized is each one of them 01:21:51.320 --> 01:21:55.440 align:middle line:84% had very separate cultures of the acquired 01:21:55.440 --> 01:21:56.700 align:middle line:90% company that came in. 01:21:56.700 --> 01:21:58.460 align:middle line:84% And so we were really trying to rebrand, 01:21:58.460 --> 01:22:01.240 align:middle line:84% and how did we allow them to keep their culture, but also 01:22:01.240 --> 01:22:04.320 align:middle line:84% kind of have much more of an open corporate culture? 01:22:04.320 --> 01:22:08.280 align:middle line:84% I had somebody come in who used to be the Culture 01:22:08.280 --> 01:22:09.920 align:middle line:90% Officer of Facebook. 01:22:09.920 --> 01:22:12.300 align:middle line:84% And he talked about-- he's fascinating. 01:22:12.300 --> 01:22:14.850 align:middle line:84% And he talked about working with Mark Zuckerberg, 01:22:14.850 --> 01:22:18.510 align:middle line:84% and Zuckerberg's whole philosophy 01:22:18.510 --> 01:22:20.190 align:middle line:84% was, I want every employee to feel 01:22:20.190 --> 01:22:22.310 align:middle line:90% like Facebook is their company. 01:22:22.310 --> 01:22:25.430 align:middle line:84% And so that's how they started new hire onboarding is 01:22:25.430 --> 01:22:28.390 align:middle line:90% this is now your company. 01:22:28.390 --> 01:22:32.130 align:middle line:84% The different aspects of didn't want people dressing up, 01:22:32.130 --> 01:22:35.230 align:middle line:84% wanted it to be a casual environment, 01:22:35.230 --> 01:22:39.230 align:middle line:84% wanted different spaces for people to think freely 01:22:39.230 --> 01:22:42.010 align:middle line:90% and to be creative about ideas. 01:22:42.010 --> 01:22:44.930 align:middle line:84% And coming from a life science company, 01:22:44.930 --> 01:22:48.170 align:middle line:84% which is slightly different, it was just fascinating. 01:22:48.170 --> 01:22:51.370 align:middle line:90% So Mike Rognlien was his name. 01:22:51.370 --> 01:22:56.350 align:middle line:84% I cannot spell the last name, but it was fascinating. 01:22:56.350 --> 01:22:59.270 align:middle line:84% You could look up Facebook creating culture. 01:22:59.270 --> 01:23:01.590 align:middle line:90% It's just kind of neat. 01:23:01.590 --> 01:23:04.750 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: The thing is, as a leader, as a CEO 01:23:04.750 --> 01:23:09.030 align:middle line:84% in particular, you have so much power. 01:23:09.030 --> 01:23:10.550 align:middle line:90% You really do. 01:23:10.550 --> 01:23:14.520 align:middle line:84% And you have the power to create that organization, 01:23:14.520 --> 01:23:18.300 align:middle line:84% and people will look to you to create the culture 01:23:18.300 --> 01:23:19.640 align:middle line:90% and what have you. 01:23:19.640 --> 01:23:23.340 align:middle line:84% And in the strongest cultures that I was a part of, 01:23:23.340 --> 01:23:27.180 align:middle line:84% I'd like to think that I was a part of it, and I was, 01:23:27.180 --> 01:23:31.140 align:middle line:84% but it was really the CEO that set the tone. 01:23:31.140 --> 01:23:35.200 align:middle line:84% And he or she-- how they behaved and what have you. 01:23:35.200 --> 01:23:39.780 align:middle line:84% And the really good CEOs, as the companies got-- they never 01:23:39.780 --> 01:23:43.660 align:middle line:84% lost their relationships to the employees in the company, 01:23:43.660 --> 01:23:46.300 align:middle line:84% and they didn't have the hierarchy. 01:23:46.300 --> 01:23:48.660 align:middle line:84% They would drop into people's offices, 01:23:48.660 --> 01:23:53.340 align:middle line:84% and they would travel if it was a global company. 01:23:53.340 --> 01:23:57.060 align:middle line:84% And one of the nicest thing about when we were at RSA 01:23:57.060 --> 01:23:59.860 align:middle line:84% Security together, we were global in, I don't know, 01:23:59.860 --> 01:24:02.033 align:middle line:84% 20-some odd countries or whatever. 01:24:02.033 --> 01:24:02.700 align:middle line:90% KIM CROWLEY: 26. 01:24:02.700 --> 01:24:04.408 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: You could go to RSA Japan, 01:24:04.408 --> 01:24:07.640 align:middle line:84% you could go to RSA Australia, go to RSA Vancouver, 01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:11.570 align:middle line:84% you could go RSA India, you could go RSA Ireland. 01:24:11.570 --> 01:24:13.890 align:middle line:84% And of course, it had its culture 01:24:13.890 --> 01:24:16.530 align:middle line:84% for where country you were in, but it was still 01:24:16.530 --> 01:24:21.250 align:middle line:84% the RSA culture in terms of how people treated one another, 01:24:21.250 --> 01:24:25.490 align:middle line:84% what was important, what was valued, what was rewarded. 01:24:25.490 --> 01:24:30.890 align:middle line:84% That's part of also how you set the tone for your culture. 01:24:30.890 --> 01:24:33.350 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Well, we've come up on the time. 01:24:33.350 --> 01:24:34.670 align:middle line:90% This is fantastic. 01:24:34.670 --> 01:24:37.950 align:middle line:84% I've done this course for a number of years. 01:24:37.950 --> 01:24:39.810 align:middle line:84% I've been around the track a few times. 01:24:39.810 --> 01:24:42.090 align:middle line:84% This panel is always a great session 01:24:42.090 --> 01:24:43.970 align:middle line:84% because I always learn something, 01:24:43.970 --> 01:24:47.350 align:middle line:90% and that's something important. 01:24:47.350 --> 01:24:49.390 align:middle line:84% So there's been a lot imparted here. 01:24:49.390 --> 01:24:53.090 align:middle line:84% I hope you think about it as you grow your companies, 01:24:53.090 --> 01:24:57.130 align:middle line:84% from dealing with a co-founder to maybe acquiring companies 01:24:57.130 --> 01:24:58.730 align:middle line:90% when you get really big. 01:24:58.730 --> 01:25:00.152 align:middle line:84% And thank you all for your input. 01:25:00.152 --> 01:25:01.610 align:middle line:84% VIVIAN VITALE: You're very welcome. 01:25:01.610 --> 01:25:02.490 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Thank you very much. 01:25:02.490 --> 01:25:03.865 align:middle line:84% MICHELE BONENFANT: Thank you all. 01:25:03.865 --> 01:25:06.540 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 01:25:06.540 --> 01:25:09.000 align:middle line:90%