WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.450 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.450 --> 00:00:03.630 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:03.630 --> 00:00:06.050 align:middle line:84% Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:06.050 --> 00:00:09.870 align:middle line:84% continue to offer high-quality educational resources for free. 00:00:09.870 --> 00:00:12.620 align:middle line:84% To make a donation or to view additional materials 00:00:12.620 --> 00:00:15.170 align:middle line:84% from hundreds of MIT courses, visit 00:00:15.170 --> 00:00:17.270 align:middle line:90% MITOpenCourseWare@ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:17.270 --> 00:00:20.390 align:middle line:90% 00:00:20.390 --> 00:00:23.290 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: So first, I need to know what you know. 00:00:23.290 --> 00:00:25.460 align:middle line:84% IF I say-- no, really, it's not a big deal. 00:00:25.460 --> 00:00:27.965 align:middle line:84% If I say Dizzy Gillespie, does that mean anything? 00:00:27.965 --> 00:00:29.180 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It does. 00:00:29.180 --> 00:00:30.350 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: Who is he? 00:00:30.350 --> 00:00:32.392 align:middle line:84% What do you think of when I say, Dizzy Gillespie? 00:00:32.392 --> 00:00:36.386 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The trumpet player, bandleader, also 00:00:36.386 --> 00:00:38.255 align:middle line:90% an advocate [INAUDIBLE]. 00:00:38.255 --> 00:00:40.980 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: Everybody is on that page? 00:00:40.980 --> 00:00:42.390 align:middle line:90% Well, let me back up. 00:00:42.390 --> 00:00:43.530 align:middle line:90% Give a timeout here. 00:00:43.530 --> 00:00:44.790 align:middle line:90% I'll make a meta comment. 00:00:44.790 --> 00:00:47.520 align:middle line:84% The question I'm about to ask are not a test. 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:49.680 align:middle line:84% I'm not going to give you points. 00:00:49.680 --> 00:00:51.690 align:middle line:84% I really just need to know so that-- 00:00:51.690 --> 00:00:54.202 align:middle line:84% I mean, there's a zillion things I could do, 00:00:54.202 --> 00:00:56.160 align:middle line:84% and so I'm just trying to get a sense of what's 00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:58.330 align:middle line:84% going to be the most useful for the time where here. 00:00:58.330 --> 00:01:00.930 align:middle line:84% So I just need to know what reference people have. 00:01:00.930 --> 00:01:03.630 align:middle line:84% So if I say Afro-Cuba, what does that mean to you? 00:01:03.630 --> 00:01:08.388 align:middle line:84% Afro-Cuban thing, what is that about? 00:01:08.388 --> 00:01:10.960 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Like a fusion genre. 00:01:10.960 --> 00:01:12.720 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: OK, fusion with-- 00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:16.590 align:middle line:84% fusion always implies something and something and something. 00:01:16.590 --> 00:01:20.843 align:middle line:90% So what's-- help him out, now. 00:01:20.843 --> 00:01:22.260 align:middle line:84% Don't everybody leave him hanging. 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:23.070 align:middle line:90% Come on, now. 00:01:23.070 --> 00:01:24.710 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think of a lot of congas. 00:01:24.710 --> 00:01:27.120 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: You think a lot of congas, OK. 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:30.445 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Like a Latin and bebop sort of thing. 00:01:30.445 --> 00:01:32.610 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: OK, that's what I was getting. 00:01:32.610 --> 00:01:35.780 align:middle line:84% Those are the terms that get used is this Afro-Cuban thing, 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:38.730 align:middle line:84% there's this Latin thing, there's this bebop thing. 00:01:38.730 --> 00:01:42.390 align:middle line:84% Because that's really what I want to help us with today. 00:01:42.390 --> 00:01:44.400 align:middle line:90% These terms are useful. 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:48.510 align:middle line:84% These terms, as all terms, are misleading, 00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:51.030 align:middle line:84% and they're used all the time, and that's OK. 00:01:51.030 --> 00:01:53.970 align:middle line:84% I'm not here to challenge the terms at all, 00:01:53.970 --> 00:01:55.150 align:middle line:90% although I've done that. 00:01:55.150 --> 00:01:58.860 align:middle line:84% For example, one of my mentors and teachers-- and I 00:01:58.860 --> 00:02:02.880 align:middle line:84% could, in fact, call him a friend, Max Roach, 00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:04.860 align:middle line:84% Max told me, OK, Bill, you're all right, 00:02:04.860 --> 00:02:06.900 align:middle line:84% but if you call me a jazz-bebop drummer, 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:09.419 align:middle line:90% I'm going to kick your ass. 00:02:09.419 --> 00:02:15.510 align:middle line:84% And even then, I knew not to-- yes, sir, Mr. Roach, sir. 00:02:15.510 --> 00:02:20.680 align:middle line:84% I never called-- because there was a reason for that. 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:24.330 align:middle line:84% It had to do with who Max felt he was and who Max 00:02:24.330 --> 00:02:26.850 align:middle line:84% and what Max felt that those terms meant. 00:02:26.850 --> 00:02:28.680 align:middle line:90% Because terms aren't just terms. 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:30.510 align:middle line:84% You know that because you're smart. 00:02:30.510 --> 00:02:31.380 align:middle line:90% You go to MIT. 00:02:31.380 --> 00:02:33.000 align:middle line:84% So you know the terms aren't just-- 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:37.780 align:middle line:84% words aren't just out there, and they reflect a lot of things. 00:02:37.780 --> 00:02:41.670 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to stay with the Max example for a minute. 00:02:41.670 --> 00:02:42.780 align:middle line:90% Max, he really would. 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:46.050 align:middle line:84% I mean, in public, I've seen him go after people 00:02:46.050 --> 00:02:48.870 align:middle line:84% who call themselves critics for calling him 00:02:48.870 --> 00:02:52.200 align:middle line:84% a jazz-bebop drummer, even when they 00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:55.230 align:middle line:84% were saying he is the inventor of jazz-bebop drumming, 00:02:55.230 --> 00:02:58.530 align:middle line:84% he wanted to go up and do some bebop upside their head. 00:02:58.530 --> 00:03:02.280 align:middle line:84% At the same time, in other circumstances, 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:04.200 align:middle line:84% when Max was at the drum set and he 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:07.500 align:middle line:84% was playing a suite, the big fusion kind of suite 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:12.550 align:middle line:84% of orchestra and so-called jazz-bebop band and so forth, 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:14.560 align:middle line:84% Max was an incredible percussionist. 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.490 align:middle line:84% And so if you wanted Max to play tympani, 00:03:17.490 --> 00:03:19.070 align:middle line:90% he'd tympani you to death. 00:03:19.070 --> 00:03:19.570 align:middle line:90% Boom. 00:03:19.570 --> 00:03:19.680 align:middle line:90% Boom. 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:19.840 align:middle line:90% Boom. 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:20.470 align:middle line:90% Boom. 00:03:20.470 --> 00:03:23.210 align:middle line:84% So he'd have the tympani, and he'd had his drum set. 00:03:23.210 --> 00:03:26.680 align:middle line:84% So on his chart, it said, letter G, bebop. 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:32.650 align:middle line:84% He didn't get up and punch the copyist out, he played bebop. 00:03:32.650 --> 00:03:36.430 align:middle line:84% So the words have a meaning, and the words also 00:03:36.430 --> 00:03:37.390 align:middle line:90% have a connotation. 00:03:37.390 --> 00:03:39.940 align:middle line:84% So I'm belaboring that because what 00:03:39.940 --> 00:03:43.130 align:middle line:84% we're going to talk about today is really about that. 00:03:43.130 --> 00:03:47.890 align:middle line:84% It's really about what Dizzy means and meant by Afro-Cuban 00:03:47.890 --> 00:03:51.610 align:middle line:84% and what it meant to him and what it means to me. 00:03:51.610 --> 00:03:53.290 align:middle line:84% I really thought about this a long time 00:03:53.290 --> 00:03:57.040 align:middle line:84% because Mark and I are old friends, 00:03:57.040 --> 00:03:58.790 align:middle line:84% and we're also professional colleagues. 00:03:58.790 --> 00:04:02.500 align:middle line:84% So I'm really interested and the work that you guys are doing. 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:03.910 align:middle line:84% I think it's very important work. 00:04:03.910 --> 00:04:04.910 align:middle line:90% I really do. 00:04:04.910 --> 00:04:08.110 align:middle line:84% And I work with a lot of different people, 00:04:08.110 --> 00:04:11.160 align:middle line:84% a lot of different musicians, but I also work with a group 00:04:11.160 --> 00:04:14.680 align:middle line:84% down in New York called the Center for Jazz Studies. 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:16.680 align:middle line:84% See, this way you know I'm a professor because I 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.730 align:middle line:90% could use the chalk. 00:04:17.730 --> 00:04:19.147 align:middle line:84% See up until now, you just thought 00:04:19.147 --> 00:04:20.850 align:middle line:84% I was a dumb, bald guy who couldn't 00:04:20.850 --> 00:04:24.000 align:middle line:90% press buttons, but now-- 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.100 align:middle line:84% When you pay the money you pay to come to MIT, 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:28.593 align:middle line:84% you don't want to be talked at by just anybody. 00:04:28.593 --> 00:04:29.760 align:middle line:90% You want a professor, right? 00:04:29.760 --> 00:04:31.127 align:middle line:90% I mean, that's-- hi. 00:04:31.127 --> 00:04:31.710 align:middle line:90% How you doing? 00:04:31.710 --> 00:04:32.850 align:middle line:90% What's up? 00:04:32.850 --> 00:04:34.440 align:middle line:90% You got it. 00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:35.040 align:middle line:90% Sarah Palin. 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:36.340 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: We want to see chalk. 00:04:36.340 --> 00:04:37.230 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: You want to see chalk. 00:04:37.230 --> 00:04:37.950 align:middle line:90% That's right. 00:04:37.950 --> 00:04:42.750 align:middle line:84% So the Center for Jazz Studies is a group of people 00:04:42.750 --> 00:04:47.280 align:middle line:90% in New York, gathered around-- 00:04:47.280 --> 00:04:49.770 align:middle line:84% it's a set of ideas and gathered around a person 00:04:49.770 --> 00:04:53.580 align:middle line:84% called Robert O'Meally, who just stepped down as the director. 00:04:53.580 --> 00:04:56.400 align:middle line:84% the Center was in place for about 15 years. 00:04:56.400 --> 00:04:58.950 align:middle line:84% The new director is a trombonist called 00:04:58.950 --> 00:05:02.940 align:middle line:84% George Lewis and a composer and a MacArthur fellow. 00:05:02.940 --> 00:05:06.390 align:middle line:84% So when I go down to New York to hang out at the Columbia 00:05:06.390 --> 00:05:07.770 align:middle line:90% Center for Jazz Studies-- 00:05:07.770 --> 00:05:09.630 align:middle line:90% and George is my friend. 00:05:09.630 --> 00:05:11.710 align:middle line:84% I knew George before he was a MacArthur. 00:05:11.710 --> 00:05:13.690 align:middle line:84% But now that George is a MacArthur, 00:05:13.690 --> 00:05:16.435 align:middle line:84% I love to go out to eat with him because I never pay. 00:05:16.435 --> 00:05:19.060 align:middle line:90% 00:05:19.060 --> 00:05:22.240 align:middle line:84% George, you're the MacArthur, you pay. 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:27.040 align:middle line:84% And I'm belaboring this because I want you to check it out. 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.220 align:middle line:84% The Center for Jazz Studies, most of the people 00:05:30.220 --> 00:05:33.100 align:middle line:84% who are in the center are quote, "scholars" rather than 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:34.840 align:middle line:90% musicians. 00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:38.470 align:middle line:84% And it's this whole notion of, it's what some of us 00:05:38.470 --> 00:05:45.470 align:middle line:90% call the new jazz studies. 00:05:45.470 --> 00:05:47.720 align:middle line:84% Many of you didn't know there was an old jazz studies. 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:53.150 align:middle line:84% Well, as things tend to progress in intellectual circles, 00:05:53.150 --> 00:05:54.620 align:middle line:84% this group-- and I guess I'm part 00:05:54.620 --> 00:05:57.470 align:middle line:84% of this group-- is part of this thing called the new jazz 00:05:57.470 --> 00:05:58.220 align:middle line:90% studies. 00:05:58.220 --> 00:06:02.120 align:middle line:90% The old jazz studies was about-- 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.360 align:middle line:84% there's this stuff called jazz, and these musicians make it. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.930 align:middle line:84% And the people doing the studying, the intellectuals, 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:10.730 align:middle line:84% aren't musicians, but since musicians 00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:15.080 align:middle line:84% don't know how to talk, then these critics and so 00:06:15.080 --> 00:06:16.850 align:middle line:84% forth will have to do it for them 00:06:16.850 --> 00:06:21.260 align:middle line:84% and inform the people just what jazz is about. 00:06:21.260 --> 00:06:25.250 align:middle line:84% The new jazz studies said, well, wait a minute, 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:27.980 align:middle line:84% some of these musicians do seem to be able to run their mouths 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:30.480 align:middle line:84% and actually, can put a couple sentences together, 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:31.800 align:middle line:90% and so forth. 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.610 align:middle line:84% But also, in the old jazz studies, 00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:37.070 align:middle line:90% the notion tended to be about-- 00:06:37.070 --> 00:06:41.053 align:middle line:84% even when it was good stuff, not the negative stuff 00:06:41.053 --> 00:06:43.220 align:middle line:84% that I presented, but even when folks did good work, 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:47.190 align:middle line:84% it tended to be about recognizing that jazz 00:06:47.190 --> 00:06:50.940 align:middle line:84% is something that exists in a world culture 00:06:50.940 --> 00:06:55.560 align:middle line:84% and talk about the various effects and affects, 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.890 align:middle line:84% the various things that impinge and helped to create this stuff 00:06:58.890 --> 00:06:59.670 align:middle line:90% called jazz. 00:06:59.670 --> 00:07:02.670 align:middle line:84% Jazz is the stuff over here and in the world impinges 00:07:02.670 --> 00:07:06.120 align:middle line:84% and the sociological aspects and the racial aspects and economic 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:09.360 align:middle line:84% and all of those things, and that makes sense. 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.830 align:middle line:84% The new jazz studies, though, comes in the next-- 00:07:13.830 --> 00:07:16.800 align:middle line:84% I think now, it's the next little step 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.640 align:middle line:84% in a very long conversation, which recognizes 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:23.190 align:middle line:90% that it works both ways. 00:07:23.190 --> 00:07:25.530 align:middle line:84% That there are perhaps ways in which jazz, in fact, 00:07:25.530 --> 00:07:28.780 align:middle line:90% affects all these other things. 00:07:28.780 --> 00:07:31.500 align:middle line:84% So one of the publications, the first publication 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:32.740 align:middle line:90% out of this group-- 00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:36.630 align:middle line:84% I mean, it is an intellectual group at Columbia University, 00:07:36.630 --> 00:07:39.060 align:middle line:84% so the bottom line, they want to do papers and books 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:40.920 align:middle line:90% and have conferences and stuff. 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:43.432 align:middle line:90% So we kind say, OK. 00:07:43.432 --> 00:07:45.390 align:middle line:84% The first publication is a book that I strongly 00:07:45.390 --> 00:07:46.230 align:middle line:90% recommend to you. 00:07:46.230 --> 00:07:50.400 align:middle line:84% It's called The Jazz Cadence of American Culture. 00:07:50.400 --> 00:07:53.980 align:middle line:84% The Jazz Cadence of American Culture. 00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:55.350 align:middle line:90% It's a great title, actually. 00:07:55.350 --> 00:07:55.890 align:middle line:90% I like it. 00:07:55.890 --> 00:08:05.590 align:middle line:90% 00:08:05.590 --> 00:08:08.560 align:middle line:84% Jazz Cadence of American Culture, and the person who 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.070 align:middle line:84% gets all the credit for the book is my friend and colleague, 00:08:12.070 --> 00:08:15.730 align:middle line:84% Big Bob O'Meally who's the Zora Neale Hurston 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:20.050 align:middle line:84% Professor of English Literature at Columbia University. 00:08:20.050 --> 00:08:23.428 align:middle line:84% Bob is not a musician, although Bob-- 00:08:23.428 --> 00:08:24.970 align:middle line:84% I'm always going to stop and tell you 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:26.387 align:middle line:84% stories because the stories really 00:08:26.387 --> 00:08:27.713 align:middle line:90% tell you more than the theory. 00:08:27.713 --> 00:08:28.880 align:middle line:90% Bob really is a good friend. 00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:29.922 align:middle line:90% I've known Bob for years. 00:08:29.922 --> 00:08:31.990 align:middle line:84% We taught together at Wesleyan University 00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:33.429 align:middle line:90% long before he went to Columbia. 00:08:33.429 --> 00:08:39.309 align:middle line:84% And Bob grew up in Washington, DC and Bob loves the music. 00:08:39.309 --> 00:08:41.409 align:middle line:90% He's an English professor. 00:08:41.409 --> 00:08:42.220 align:middle line:90% He's a critic. 00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:44.650 align:middle line:84% He's written several books on Ralph Ellison 00:08:44.650 --> 00:08:46.720 align:middle line:84% and a couple of books on Billie Holiday 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.600 align:middle line:90% and all that kind of stuff. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:53.062 align:middle line:84% But Bob has an alto saxophone in a case. 00:08:53.062 --> 00:08:54.520 align:middle line:84% And I've always seen the case, I've 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:56.440 align:middle line:90% never seen the alto saxophone. 00:08:56.440 --> 00:09:00.950 align:middle line:84% And Bob will come to a gig and with his case and he said, 00:09:00.950 --> 00:09:01.840 align:middle line:90% Bill, I'm ready. 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:03.490 align:middle line:90% And I'll say, I'll let you know. 00:09:03.490 --> 00:09:09.080 align:middle line:90% 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:10.870 align:middle line:84% And then when the gig is over, oh, man, 00:09:10.870 --> 00:09:11.870 align:middle line:90% I forgot you were there. 00:09:11.870 --> 00:09:12.530 align:middle line:90% I'm sorry. 00:09:12.530 --> 00:09:14.780 align:middle line:90% That's our little joke. 00:09:14.780 --> 00:09:16.760 align:middle line:84% But Bob, actually, is a very brilliant man 00:09:16.760 --> 00:09:18.380 align:middle line:90% and a good person. 00:09:18.380 --> 00:09:21.410 align:middle line:84% So Bob is the editor of this text. 00:09:21.410 --> 00:09:23.660 align:middle line:84% And seriously, I really do suggest it to you, The Jazz 00:09:23.660 --> 00:09:25.770 align:middle line:90% Cadence of American Culture. 00:09:25.770 --> 00:09:29.840 align:middle line:84% And it's a collection of essays by a lot of people, a lot 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.520 align:middle line:90% of people, a lot of people. 00:09:32.520 --> 00:09:37.500 align:middle line:84% And that was the first one that came out about 15 years ago, 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:40.040 align:middle line:90% 10 years ago. 00:09:40.040 --> 00:09:41.000 align:middle line:90% There are three. 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:42.500 align:middle line:84% The second one, which is the one I'm 00:09:42.500 --> 00:09:44.870 align:middle line:90% going to talk about today, is-- 00:09:44.870 --> 00:09:48.658 align:middle line:84% I'm sorry the third one is called Uptown Conversations. 00:09:48.658 --> 00:09:53.540 align:middle line:90% 00:09:53.540 --> 00:09:56.240 align:middle line:84% Uptown Conversations is also credited to Bob, but then 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.710 align:middle line:84% to other people, Farah Griffin, and one other person. 00:10:00.710 --> 00:10:02.450 align:middle line:84% I'll think of who it is in a minute. 00:10:02.450 --> 00:10:06.230 align:middle line:84% The point is that where this collection represented 00:10:06.230 --> 00:10:08.067 align:middle line:84% the old jazz studies, all the good stuff, 00:10:08.067 --> 00:10:08.900 align:middle line:90% a lot of good stuff. 00:10:08.900 --> 00:10:11.540 align:middle line:84% Ralph Ellison's in there and just a lot of good stuff. 00:10:11.540 --> 00:10:12.770 align:middle line:90% Check it out. 00:10:12.770 --> 00:10:18.200 align:middle line:84% Uptown Conversations is like a manifesto of the new jazz 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:19.010 align:middle line:90% studies. 00:10:19.010 --> 00:10:24.620 align:middle line:84% And George Lewis is there with a long article 00:10:24.620 --> 00:10:27.440 align:middle line:90% called "The AACM in New York." 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.370 align:middle line:90% 00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:34.790 align:middle line:84% Now, I bring all that to say that George has a book, 00:10:34.790 --> 00:10:40.555 align:middle line:84% George himself, his newest book is this huge thick, it's thick, 00:10:40.555 --> 00:10:42.105 align:middle line:90% it's thick. 00:10:42.105 --> 00:10:43.730 align:middle line:84% If you have roaches, it's a great book. 00:10:43.730 --> 00:10:47.420 align:middle line:84% You just drop it on the roach, the roach is dead. 00:10:47.420 --> 00:10:50.190 align:middle line:90% It's incredible. 00:10:50.190 --> 00:10:52.870 align:middle line:84% He has a book on the AACM, which, again, 00:10:52.870 --> 00:10:53.940 align:middle line:90% I strongly recommend. 00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:55.380 align:middle line:90% Now, why am I saying all this? 00:10:55.380 --> 00:10:57.838 align:middle line:84% I'm saying all this because I'm waiting for my registration 00:10:57.838 --> 00:11:02.430 align:middle line:84% to go through, but also, on the real side, because one 00:11:02.430 --> 00:11:05.370 align:middle line:84% of the tenants of the new jazz criticism, the new jazz 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:09.240 align:middle line:84% studies, is this notion that since we recognize that there 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.290 align:middle line:84% are folks like Salim Washington and Bill 00:11:13.290 --> 00:11:17.370 align:middle line:84% Lowe in this group, people who alleged to be intellectuals 00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:20.580 align:middle line:84% and also alleged to be musicians, 00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:23.010 align:middle line:84% how can a musician talk about this stuff? 00:11:23.010 --> 00:11:26.100 align:middle line:90% How do we talk about our stuff? 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:28.678 align:middle line:84% And there's a way in which we want to be scholarly. 00:11:28.678 --> 00:11:30.720 align:middle line:84% Remember, I came with my chalk, so you guys would 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:34.710 align:middle line:84% know I'm a real professor, but also, there 00:11:34.710 --> 00:11:36.510 align:middle line:84% are strategies you have to develop. 00:11:36.510 --> 00:11:41.250 align:middle line:84% How much of what I have to say about Dizzy Gillespie 00:11:41.250 --> 00:11:48.180 align:middle line:84% should be objective, intellectual work, and how much 00:11:48.180 --> 00:11:54.030 align:middle line:84% should be subjective, since my subjectivity about Dizzy 00:11:54.030 --> 00:11:57.600 align:middle line:84% is really personal, and I would think that it's useful to you 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:00.210 align:middle line:84% guys because, among other things, 00:12:00.210 --> 00:12:01.350 align:middle line:90% I have a blessed life. 00:12:01.350 --> 00:12:02.790 align:middle line:90% I don't always feel like that. 00:12:02.790 --> 00:12:06.330 align:middle line:84% I feel blessed today because my man won the election, 00:12:06.330 --> 00:12:09.360 align:middle line:84% and that makes me think about all the good things 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:14.400 align:middle line:84% that I have, and I'm blessed because my musical experiences 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:15.560 align:middle line:90% have really been wonderful. 00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:16.560 align:middle line:90% I mean, over the years-- 00:12:16.560 --> 00:12:19.620 align:middle line:90% I'm just a trombone player. 00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:23.670 align:middle line:84% Over the years, I've had the good fortune 00:12:23.670 --> 00:12:27.300 align:middle line:90% of working with my gods. 00:12:27.300 --> 00:12:29.740 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't know any other way of saying it, 00:12:29.740 --> 00:12:31.530 align:middle line:90% so I worked with Dizzy. 00:12:31.530 --> 00:12:32.910 align:middle line:90% I played in Dizzy's band. 00:12:32.910 --> 00:12:34.260 align:middle line:90% It was one week. 00:12:34.260 --> 00:12:39.240 align:middle line:84% I did a week with Dizzy at a place called the Buddy Rich 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:39.960 align:middle line:90% Jazz Club. 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.210 align:middle line:84% Buddy Rich had a jazz club for half of a hot minute 00:12:42.210 --> 00:12:45.540 align:middle line:84% in New York in the '70s, and Dizzy was one 00:12:45.540 --> 00:12:46.950 align:middle line:90% of the first people in there. 00:12:46.950 --> 00:12:49.950 align:middle line:84% His big band was booked right at the same time 00:12:49.950 --> 00:12:56.160 align:middle line:84% as the George Wein's Newport Jazz Festival. 00:12:56.160 --> 00:12:57.540 align:middle line:90% And there's a story about that. 00:12:57.540 --> 00:12:58.890 align:middle line:90% Remind me in case I forget. 00:12:58.890 --> 00:13:02.670 align:middle line:90% It all has to do with tuxedos. 00:13:02.670 --> 00:13:04.260 align:middle line:84% So if I don't tell you about tuxedo, 00:13:04.260 --> 00:13:05.940 align:middle line:84% remind me to tell you about tuxedo. 00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:10.320 align:middle line:84% But the point is I work with this. 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:15.870 align:middle line:84% I was in his band, and the generation that my cohort-- 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:18.090 align:middle line:84% that let you know I'm an intellectual I can say words 00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:19.530 align:middle line:90% like cohort. 00:13:19.530 --> 00:13:21.780 align:middle line:84% My cohort of musicians, we grew up 00:13:21.780 --> 00:13:23.610 align:middle line:84% in the '60s and the '70s and the '80s. 00:13:23.610 --> 00:13:27.330 align:middle line:84% Very important time to be learning the music 00:13:27.330 --> 00:13:33.390 align:middle line:84% because if we use that term bebop, for us, 00:13:33.390 --> 00:13:37.080 align:middle line:90% bebop was already there. 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:40.260 align:middle line:90% Bebop existed. 00:13:40.260 --> 00:13:43.240 align:middle line:84% When I was growing up bebop was a thing. 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.600 align:middle line:84% It wasn't something new, it was something that was in place. 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:49.860 align:middle line:84% And in fact, there were a lot of challenges to bebop from people 00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:52.920 align:middle line:84% closer to my age in terms of what's 00:13:52.920 --> 00:13:55.060 align:middle line:90% the way to go with the music. 00:13:55.060 --> 00:13:59.340 align:middle line:84% So I remember at the age of 21 trying to figure out, well, 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:05.010 align:middle line:84% should I learn my craft following JJ Johnson 00:14:05.010 --> 00:14:10.560 align:middle line:84% and Dizzy and them, or can I skip over that and jump right 00:14:10.560 --> 00:14:13.650 align:middle line:90% in with Archie Shepp. 00:14:13.650 --> 00:14:15.390 align:middle line:84% Now, that may seem like a trivial-- 00:14:15.390 --> 00:14:17.100 align:middle line:84% turns out, that wasn't trivial at all. 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:20.250 align:middle line:84% Because in the 1970s, that wasn't even trivial. 00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:23.070 align:middle line:84% Your life depended very often on how 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:27.150 align:middle line:84% you answered that in terms of your survival, your musical 00:14:27.150 --> 00:14:31.005 align:middle line:84% and economic survival in New York, which way were you going. 00:14:31.005 --> 00:14:34.350 align:middle line:90% 00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:37.735 align:middle line:84% I grew up at a time when bebop was considered the standard. 00:14:37.735 --> 00:14:40.820 align:middle line:90% 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:44.210 align:middle line:84% Now, it wasn't that many years before that bebop 00:14:44.210 --> 00:14:47.870 align:middle line:84% was this new, radical thing that folks like Dizzy 00:14:47.870 --> 00:14:52.580 align:middle line:84% were considered crazy and weird and outside 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:57.450 align:middle line:90% and messing up Jazz by doing it. 00:14:57.450 --> 00:15:00.140 align:middle line:90% So I grew up in a time where-- 00:15:00.140 --> 00:15:03.380 align:middle line:84% oh, and also, Dizzy was still around. 00:15:03.380 --> 00:15:06.020 align:middle line:84% It wasn't like, if you're in Western classical music 00:15:06.020 --> 00:15:07.490 align:middle line:84% and you're deciding whether you're 00:15:07.490 --> 00:15:13.030 align:middle line:84% going to be a Beethovenist or are you going 00:15:13.030 --> 00:15:15.350 align:middle line:84% to go with Beethoven, are you going to go with Brahms, 00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:17.840 align:middle line:90% fortunately, they're both dead. 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.960 align:middle line:84% So you can just make up really what you think they're about 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.300 align:middle line:84% and go ahead and do that and you pick it up, 00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:25.645 align:middle line:84% and I'm a Beethovenist, and dah, dah, dah, 00:15:25.645 --> 00:15:28.920 align:middle line:90% and you just do your thing. 00:15:28.920 --> 00:15:33.510 align:middle line:84% You could decide to be a beboppist and then go down, 00:15:33.510 --> 00:15:37.170 align:middle line:84% and as I did and have to sit in and play the third trombone 00:15:37.170 --> 00:15:39.705 align:middle line:84% chart in Dizzy's big band at Buddy Rich's place. 00:15:39.705 --> 00:15:43.130 align:middle line:90% 00:15:43.130 --> 00:15:46.760 align:middle line:90% Now, that's Dizzy. 00:15:46.760 --> 00:15:48.680 align:middle line:84% Now, whatever I may have thought about Dizzy, 00:15:48.680 --> 00:15:50.690 align:middle line:84% it turns out it was fine for me because I loved Dizzy. 00:15:50.690 --> 00:15:53.150 align:middle line:84% I didn't have any problem with that Dizzy was old fashioned 00:15:53.150 --> 00:15:54.660 align:middle line:90% or any of that. 00:15:54.660 --> 00:15:59.540 align:middle line:84% But even if I did have that notion, that's Dizzy. 00:15:59.540 --> 00:16:01.670 align:middle line:90% I recognize who he is. 00:16:01.670 --> 00:16:03.920 align:middle line:84% If I'm going in another direction, that's still Dizzy. 00:16:03.920 --> 00:16:05.910 align:middle line:90% I want to learn from him. 00:16:05.910 --> 00:16:09.510 align:middle line:90% So you want to give what-- 00:16:09.510 --> 00:16:10.010 align:middle line:90% I can give. 00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:12.600 align:middle line:84% I can bow down and kiss ass and all that. 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:14.750 align:middle line:84% But the real give, if you're making music, 00:16:14.750 --> 00:16:16.023 align:middle line:90% the real give is what? 00:16:16.023 --> 00:16:17.315 align:middle line:90% What's the real thing you give? 00:16:17.315 --> 00:16:20.080 align:middle line:90% 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:25.350 align:middle line:84% What can you really give to Mark if you like him? 00:16:25.350 --> 00:16:28.110 align:middle line:90% What can you really give to him? 00:16:28.110 --> 00:16:31.320 align:middle line:84% What's the most valuable thing that you have 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:34.450 align:middle line:90% that you can share with him? 00:16:34.450 --> 00:16:36.110 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Your insight. 00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:37.910 align:middle line:90% A different perspective. 00:16:37.910 --> 00:16:41.082 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: Not even a different perspective. 00:16:41.082 --> 00:16:42.290 align:middle line:90% What's the coin of the realm? 00:16:42.290 --> 00:16:44.430 align:middle line:84% What's the real coin of the realm in here? 00:16:44.430 --> 00:16:45.500 align:middle line:90% What are you guys doing? 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:48.200 align:middle line:84% I mean, are you are you making nuclear weapons? 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.360 align:middle line:90% Are you making poison gas? 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:51.980 align:middle line:90% This is MIT. 00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:55.340 align:middle line:90% Those are possible. 00:16:55.340 --> 00:16:56.375 align:middle line:90% What are you doing? 00:16:56.375 --> 00:16:59.160 align:middle line:90% 00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:02.577 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: He makes music, so new music. 00:17:02.577 --> 00:17:04.160 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: Don't even worry about new. 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:05.035 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Just music. 00:17:05.035 --> 00:17:06.020 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: Just music. 00:17:06.020 --> 00:17:09.770 align:middle line:84% If you love music, the most you can give to Mark 00:17:09.770 --> 00:17:12.410 align:middle line:84% is your sense of music, not your sense 00:17:12.410 --> 00:17:17.460 align:middle line:84% of new or old, hipty dipty, dippy blue, music. 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:22.550 align:middle line:84% So if somebody calls me on the phone and says, 00:17:22.550 --> 00:17:25.510 align:middle line:84% for x number of dollars, you show up, dressed properly-- 00:17:25.510 --> 00:17:27.260 align:middle line:84% and that's what the tuxedo story is about. 00:17:27.260 --> 00:17:29.660 align:middle line:84% You show up dressed properly with your trombone 00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:33.770 align:middle line:84% in working order, they don't say all that. 00:17:33.770 --> 00:17:37.730 align:middle line:84% They just say, Dizzy needs a third trombone player, 00:17:37.730 --> 00:17:38.930 align:middle line:90% and I got your name. 00:17:38.930 --> 00:17:41.420 align:middle line:90% Can you come and do it? 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.720 align:middle line:84% Now, when I get there, the most valuable thing, 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.570 align:middle line:84% the way I can show Dizzy that I love him the most 00:17:47.570 --> 00:17:52.370 align:middle line:84% is to play the shit out of the trombone, in whatever manner 00:17:52.370 --> 00:17:55.390 align:middle line:90% he asks me to do. 00:17:55.390 --> 00:17:59.320 align:middle line:84% Because that's the real coin of the realm. 00:17:59.320 --> 00:18:01.660 align:middle line:84% For the folks in my generation, at least 00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:04.000 align:middle line:84% most of them that I talk to, the question 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.840 align:middle line:90% becomes, how do you do that? 00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:08.440 align:middle line:90% What's the mechanism? 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.030 align:middle line:90% What's the exchange? 00:18:10.030 --> 00:18:13.120 align:middle line:90% What's the conversation? 00:18:13.120 --> 00:18:16.660 align:middle line:84% I could sit up under Dizzy, and some have. 00:18:16.660 --> 00:18:19.840 align:middle line:84% One of my good buddies did that, Jon Faddis. 00:18:19.840 --> 00:18:22.840 align:middle line:84% Jon set up under Dizzy, and I've heard 00:18:22.840 --> 00:18:25.960 align:middle line:84% Dizzy say sometime Dizzy couldn't tell the difference 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.330 align:middle line:90% between Dizzy and Jon Faddis. 00:18:28.330 --> 00:18:29.890 align:middle line:90% Sometimes Dizzy couldn't tell. 00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:33.640 align:middle line:84% And for a while, you're going to follow Dizzy, damn, Jon. 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.770 align:middle line:84% And Jon has got the chops to do that. 00:18:36.770 --> 00:18:38.650 align:middle line:84% But there was a point in Jon's life though, 00:18:38.650 --> 00:18:44.500 align:middle line:84% when while he's sitting up and Jon, contrary to what happened, 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:47.590 align:middle line:84% Jon was the chosen one, not Mr. Marsalis. 00:18:47.590 --> 00:18:51.700 align:middle line:84% Jon was chosen one by Dizzy to be the next guy. 00:18:51.700 --> 00:18:53.620 align:middle line:90% Jon was the chosen one. 00:18:53.620 --> 00:18:58.160 align:middle line:84% Jon has almost the same sense of humor, very crazy, as Dizzy. 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.580 align:middle line:84% I mean, Jon was right there, but there was a point in Jon's life 00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:04.670 align:middle line:84% where Jon said, wait a minute, the essence of this music 00:19:04.670 --> 00:19:06.590 align:middle line:90% is I gotta find my own voice. 00:19:06.590 --> 00:19:07.910 align:middle line:90% Dizzy already did this. 00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:09.560 align:middle line:90% I gotta find mine, and he did. 00:19:09.560 --> 00:19:11.780 align:middle line:84% I mean, he got out from under that, 00:19:11.780 --> 00:19:14.780 align:middle line:84% and he still loved Dizzy and he still-- 00:19:14.780 --> 00:19:16.970 align:middle line:90% Jesus, but even he-- 00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:22.850 align:middle line:84% So one way is you get up under somebody and learn that. 00:19:22.850 --> 00:19:26.300 align:middle line:84% I also have aspirations, I guess, to be a composer. 00:19:26.300 --> 00:19:28.290 align:middle line:90% So what do you do with that? 00:19:28.290 --> 00:19:31.070 align:middle line:84% Do I always want to write like the people I like, 00:19:31.070 --> 00:19:35.810 align:middle line:84% or do I want to use that to find my own voice? 00:19:35.810 --> 00:19:41.120 align:middle line:84% So that does those questions make sense to you? 00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:42.170 align:middle line:90% Ask questions. 00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:45.290 align:middle line:84% And if you can imagine, they're not just questions 00:19:45.290 --> 00:19:47.368 align:middle line:90% that you have in a class. 00:19:47.368 --> 00:19:49.410 align:middle line:84% Nothing wrong with having questions in the class. 00:19:49.410 --> 00:19:50.785 align:middle line:84% In fact, it's a good thing to do, 00:19:50.785 --> 00:19:53.930 align:middle line:84% but these are questions that have to do with making music 00:19:53.930 --> 00:19:57.470 align:middle line:90% for a good bit of the time. 00:19:57.470 --> 00:19:59.480 align:middle line:90% So that's where I want us to be. 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:01.950 align:middle line:84% That was the point of all of that. 00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:06.320 align:middle line:84% How do we use the stuff that comes before? 00:20:06.320 --> 00:20:08.660 align:middle line:84% One of the ways that we use the stuff that comes 00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:14.120 align:middle line:84% before is to define the stuff that comes before. 00:20:14.120 --> 00:20:17.240 align:middle line:84% You see, the nature of this music is that even very often, 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.982 align:middle line:84% the definitions are kind of loose and whatnot. 00:20:19.982 --> 00:20:21.440 align:middle line:84% So if we're going to have something 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:37.130 align:middle line:84% called Afro-Cuban jazz, three very, very complicated terms 00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:38.870 align:middle line:90% Now, let's see if I can do this. 00:20:38.870 --> 00:20:41.770 align:middle line:90% 00:20:41.770 --> 00:20:42.490 align:middle line:90% Cuban. 00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:43.960 align:middle line:90% Afro-Cuban. 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.410 align:middle line:90% What does Cuban refer to? 00:20:47.410 --> 00:20:48.800 align:middle line:90% What does the word Cuban refer? 00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:49.300 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:20:49.300 --> 00:20:51.700 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think a certain, I guess, 00:20:51.700 --> 00:20:58.270 align:middle line:84% full rhythms and instrumentation from Cuba, like the tumbao 00:20:58.270 --> 00:21:01.390 align:middle line:90% and the bell pats [INAUDIBLE]. 00:21:01.390 --> 00:21:04.370 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: OK, something from Cuba. 00:21:04.370 --> 00:21:10.520 align:middle line:84% I contend that in the second half of the 20th century, 00:21:10.520 --> 00:21:12.710 align:middle line:84% indeed, I would contend for the last 300 years, 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:15.002 align:middle line:84% but certainly, for the second half of the 20th century, 00:21:15.002 --> 00:21:19.580 align:middle line:84% if you are an American person, then the notion of Cuba 00:21:19.580 --> 00:21:23.840 align:middle line:84% is not just the name of an island in the Caribbean. 00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:28.130 align:middle line:90% 00:21:28.130 --> 00:21:31.010 align:middle line:84% Although it is the name of an island in the Caribbean, 00:21:31.010 --> 00:21:32.570 align:middle line:84% but it's a little bit more than that. 00:21:32.570 --> 00:21:39.260 align:middle line:90% 00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:40.940 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That's an example of musician 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:41.690 align:middle line:90% speaking for themselves. 00:21:41.690 --> 00:21:42.690 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: That's right. 00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:45.740 align:middle line:84% That's why we need those critics. 00:21:45.740 --> 00:21:46.820 align:middle line:90% But check it out. 00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:49.190 align:middle line:84% I mean, that was funny, and that's very Dizzy. 00:21:49.190 --> 00:21:51.980 align:middle line:90% That's very Dizzy. 00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:57.800 align:middle line:84% In the old jazz studies pantheon, 00:21:57.800 --> 00:22:00.590 align:middle line:84% when you talk about bebop, there's Charlie Parker 00:22:00.590 --> 00:22:01.610 align:middle line:90% and there's Dizzy. 00:22:01.610 --> 00:22:03.860 align:middle line:84% And very often, what's talked about is 00:22:03.860 --> 00:22:05.690 align:middle line:84% that Charlie Parker was the musician, 00:22:05.690 --> 00:22:09.290 align:middle line:84% was the consummate artist and Dizzy could play, 00:22:09.290 --> 00:22:13.010 align:middle line:84% but Dizzy was more showbiz oriented, 00:22:13.010 --> 00:22:17.510 align:middle line:84% that he was more about doing just what you just saw, 00:22:17.510 --> 00:22:20.600 align:middle line:90% connecting with the audience. 00:22:20.600 --> 00:22:24.200 align:middle line:84% And as we all know, you can't be showbiz oriented 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:29.900 align:middle line:90% and talk about theory, can you? 00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:32.690 align:middle line:84% What the new jazz studies requires of me 00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:34.370 align:middle line:84% or what I require of it, actually, 00:22:34.370 --> 00:22:37.440 align:middle line:84% is a way to put into perspective, 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.340 align:middle line:90% here's what I know. 00:22:38.340 --> 00:22:40.632 align:middle line:84% Well, Dizzy just said, that story that Dizzy just told, 00:22:40.632 --> 00:22:45.090 align:middle line:84% which you get the power to play the trumpet from your asshole. 00:22:45.090 --> 00:22:47.490 align:middle line:84% I mean, the important thing about that story 00:22:47.490 --> 00:22:49.170 align:middle line:90% is that he told it. 00:22:49.170 --> 00:22:53.130 align:middle line:84% He told the story, and when he was explaining that 00:22:53.130 --> 00:22:55.020 align:middle line:84% to this woman, it was on television. 00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:57.150 align:middle line:90% It was on national television. 00:22:57.150 --> 00:22:58.140 align:middle line:90% It was on NBC. 00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:59.940 align:middle line:84% It was on national television, and I 00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:02.980 align:middle line:84% don't know if they had time to bleep him out or not, 00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:04.420 align:middle line:90% and his wife heard it. 00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:06.000 align:middle line:84% There's a lot of information packed 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.670 align:middle line:84% in that little story, a lot of information that, 00:23:08.670 --> 00:23:12.180 align:middle line:84% for me, is important about that generation that preceded me. 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:16.470 align:middle line:84% Generation of African-American men mostly, but some women, 00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:21.750 align:middle line:84% who were in the so-called jazz world, who had to walk a very 00:23:21.750 --> 00:23:25.890 align:middle line:84% interesting and difficult, a very difficult path 00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:34.790 align:middle line:84% between show business and so-called art, 00:23:34.790 --> 00:23:48.210 align:middle line:84% between physical survival versus aesthetic integrity. 00:23:48.210 --> 00:23:51.660 align:middle line:90% 00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:55.800 align:middle line:84% And it's this balance, and it is a balance, 00:23:55.800 --> 00:23:58.650 align:middle line:84% and it's very complicated, and it's very tricky. 00:23:58.650 --> 00:24:00.510 align:middle line:90% And you have to be very skilled. 00:24:00.510 --> 00:24:03.360 align:middle line:84% And the ones that lasted like Dizzy-- 00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:05.040 align:middle line:84% now, wait till you hear the people I'm 00:24:05.040 --> 00:24:07.020 align:middle line:90% going to put in that category. 00:24:07.020 --> 00:24:10.350 align:middle line:90% Dizzy, Miles, Parker himself. 00:24:10.350 --> 00:24:12.510 align:middle line:90% Parker didn't quite survive. 00:24:12.510 --> 00:24:15.840 align:middle line:90% Parker played the game though. 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:17.370 align:middle line:90% Parker did play the game. 00:24:17.370 --> 00:24:19.590 align:middle line:90% There's a game in this. 00:24:19.590 --> 00:24:22.050 align:middle line:90% There's some gamesmanship. 00:24:22.050 --> 00:24:24.210 align:middle line:84% Now, for those of us who come afterwards, 00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:30.420 align:middle line:84% if you weren't around when Dizzy and Charlie Parker were 00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:34.830 align:middle line:84% so-called creating bebop, you can still know about it 00:24:34.830 --> 00:24:38.430 align:middle line:90% because you get the recordings. 00:24:38.430 --> 00:24:40.650 align:middle line:84% How much of your study is based when 00:24:40.650 --> 00:24:45.933 align:middle line:84% Mark put 17 chord changes on the board and tell you to do it. 00:24:45.933 --> 00:24:47.850 align:middle line:84% And then he'll say go listen to the recording. 00:24:47.850 --> 00:24:49.930 align:middle line:90% So you get it in your ear. 00:24:49.930 --> 00:24:53.620 align:middle line:84% The fact that it is a recording means that some of these people 00:24:53.620 --> 00:24:57.190 align:middle line:90% played this game successfully. 00:24:57.190 --> 00:24:59.060 align:middle line:90% That's not trivial. 00:24:59.060 --> 00:25:00.560 align:middle line:90% That's not trivial. 00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:03.550 align:middle line:84% The fact that there are all those recordings of Miles 00:25:03.550 --> 00:25:09.460 align:middle line:84% and Diz and Monk and Charlie Parker 00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:11.230 align:middle line:84% is because they were able to play 00:25:11.230 --> 00:25:14.740 align:middle line:90% this game in a particular way. 00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:15.550 align:middle line:90% That's important. 00:25:15.550 --> 00:25:20.500 align:middle line:84% If you're were 30-something whatever age I was in the '70s, 00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:23.290 align:middle line:84% dealing with trying to find my voice, not just 00:25:23.290 --> 00:25:26.680 align:middle line:84% my voice as a musician, it's not just my voice 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.018 align:middle line:90% as what notes will I play. 00:25:29.018 --> 00:25:30.310 align:middle line:90% Am I going to be Afro-Cubanist? 00:25:30.310 --> 00:25:31.570 align:middle line:90% Am I going to be free player? 00:25:31.570 --> 00:25:33.737 align:middle line:84% Am I going to play in a big-- what am I going to do? 00:25:33.737 --> 00:25:36.580 align:middle line:84% It's not just that though, it's how do you conduct yourself. 00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:40.120 align:middle line:84% Because so much of the people, Dizzy and Max, 00:25:40.120 --> 00:25:42.418 align:middle line:84% what I learned from those guys, Bill Barron, what 00:25:42.418 --> 00:25:43.960 align:middle line:84% I learned from those guys is that how 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.590 align:middle line:84% you presented yourself was as much 00:25:47.590 --> 00:25:52.720 align:middle line:84% a part of your musical identity as the notes you chose. 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.210 align:middle line:84% How you looked, how you carried yourself, 00:25:55.210 --> 00:25:58.720 align:middle line:84% how you dealt with cab drivers, how 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.360 align:middle line:84% you dealt with who your women were, who your people were. 00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:04.240 align:middle line:90% 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.220 align:middle line:84% That was much that was as much about your music 00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:08.470 align:middle line:90% as the notes you played. 00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:13.380 align:middle line:84% Now, when I was coming up there was a resistance to that. 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:15.530 align:middle line:84% So one of the biggest arguments in a lot 00:26:15.530 --> 00:26:20.510 align:middle line:84% of the bands that I played in the '70s in New York was dress. 00:26:20.510 --> 00:26:22.610 align:middle line:84% We're going to play down at the such and such. 00:26:22.610 --> 00:26:24.920 align:middle line:90% Well, what's the dress? 00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:27.470 align:middle line:84% These three people want to wear dashikis, 00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:30.715 align:middle line:84% these three people over here want to have on tuxedos, 00:26:30.715 --> 00:26:32.840 align:middle line:84% these four people over here want to have on a shirt 00:26:32.840 --> 00:26:35.540 align:middle line:84% and tie, and these seven people who are younger, 00:26:35.540 --> 00:26:38.180 align:middle line:84% want to have on jeans with holes in them. 00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:40.740 align:middle line:90% 00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:45.360 align:middle line:84% Because the issue is, how seriously 00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:48.750 align:middle line:90% will the music be received? 00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:51.900 align:middle line:84% And very often, rightfully or wrongfully, that's 00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:56.040 align:middle line:90% based on how the people look. 00:26:56.040 --> 00:26:58.980 align:middle line:84% Seems kind of silly, but we wouldn't 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:03.510 align:middle line:84% have all these recordings if Diz and Byrd and Miles 00:27:03.510 --> 00:27:06.330 align:middle line:84% didn't play the game in a particular way. 00:27:06.330 --> 00:27:08.933 align:middle line:90% 00:27:08.933 --> 00:27:09.600 align:middle line:90% Miles was great. 00:27:09.600 --> 00:27:12.630 align:middle line:84% Miles come out of his house with the wrong colored pants 00:27:12.630 --> 00:27:15.690 align:middle line:84% on and not have time to go change. 00:27:15.690 --> 00:27:18.900 align:middle line:84% By the time that happened, he was so much the fashion guy, 00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:20.370 align:middle line:90% that became the new fashion. 00:27:20.370 --> 00:27:22.740 align:middle line:84% Miles come up looking raggedy as hell 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:24.270 align:middle line:84% because he made the wrong choice, 00:27:24.270 --> 00:27:27.000 align:middle line:84% but because Miles had it on, oh shit, that's what we got to do. 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:27.667 align:middle line:90% He got to have-- 00:27:27.667 --> 00:27:30.133 align:middle line:90% 00:27:30.133 --> 00:27:32.550 align:middle line:84% Miles was seen on the street wearing his bedroom slippers. 00:27:32.550 --> 00:27:34.453 align:middle line:84% Everybody in New York was walking out 00:27:34.453 --> 00:27:35.370 align:middle line:90% with bedroom slippers. 00:27:35.370 --> 00:27:35.980 align:middle line:90% It's incredible. 00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:36.655 align:middle line:90% It's incredible. 00:27:36.655 --> 00:27:38.280 align:middle line:84% That's the game that you play, but that 00:27:38.280 --> 00:27:42.110 align:middle line:84% was part of his power as a musician as well. 00:27:42.110 --> 00:27:43.420 align:middle line:90% Now, is that jive? 00:27:43.420 --> 00:27:44.755 align:middle line:90% Is that silly is that-- 00:27:44.755 --> 00:27:48.478 align:middle line:90% 00:27:48.478 --> 00:27:50.020 align:middle line:84% all that time, you spent figuring out 00:27:50.020 --> 00:27:51.808 align:middle line:84% what pants to put on, you should have 00:27:51.808 --> 00:27:52.975 align:middle line:90% been practicing the trumpet. 00:27:52.975 --> 00:27:55.170 align:middle line:90% Oh, really? 00:27:55.170 --> 00:27:59.140 align:middle line:90% A story, Wes Brown-- 00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:00.940 align:middle line:90% watch how I segue. 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:01.660 align:middle line:90% I'm masterful. 00:28:01.660 --> 00:28:02.170 align:middle line:90% I'm sorry. 00:28:02.170 --> 00:28:04.370 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Don't forget the tuxedo. 00:28:04.370 --> 00:28:05.320 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: Thank you. 00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:05.820 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:28:05.820 --> 00:28:06.640 align:middle line:90% I'm coming to that. 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.220 align:middle line:90% Wes Brown, who knows Wes Brown? 00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:10.510 align:middle line:90% You don't know Wes Brown. 00:28:10.510 --> 00:28:12.880 align:middle line:84% Wes Brown is a very fine bass player 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.620 align:middle line:90% and I've known for many years. 00:28:14.620 --> 00:28:16.700 align:middle line:84% Wes lives out in the western part of the State. 00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:18.550 align:middle line:84% That's not why he's called Wes, but he just 00:28:18.550 --> 00:28:21.790 align:middle line:84% happens to live out in the west part of the State. 00:28:21.790 --> 00:28:24.778 align:middle line:84% And Wes, was young-- well, not so young anymore, 00:28:24.778 --> 00:28:27.070 align:middle line:84% but when I first knew him and where we the story comes, 00:28:27.070 --> 00:28:29.050 align:middle line:84% from he was relatively young, about the age 00:28:29.050 --> 00:28:31.750 align:middle line:90% of most of you guys in here. 00:28:31.750 --> 00:28:34.570 align:middle line:84% Very bright, very talented, African-American man 00:28:34.570 --> 00:28:37.000 align:middle line:84% who played a mess out the bass and was 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.560 align:middle line:84% on the scene with us in Middletown 00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:41.370 align:middle line:84% in New Haven, Connecticut, and he was one of cats, 00:28:41.370 --> 00:28:43.680 align:middle line:90% you know, Anthony Davidson. 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.320 align:middle line:84% And he wouldn't make no money, but he was one of the cats. 00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:50.670 align:middle line:84% And he got a gig with Willie "The Lion" Smith 00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:57.720 align:middle line:84% to play bass in a trio thing out in Las Vegas. 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.090 align:middle line:84% So the thing-- I didn't tell you about Wes Brown 00:29:00.090 --> 00:29:02.490 align:middle line:84% is that Wes Brown doesn't like to wear shoes. 00:29:02.490 --> 00:29:06.110 align:middle line:90% 00:29:06.110 --> 00:29:09.110 align:middle line:90% So that's his thing. 00:29:09.110 --> 00:29:11.042 align:middle line:84% Even now, he's gotten a little more mature, 00:29:11.042 --> 00:29:12.500 align:middle line:84% but Wes doesn't like to wear shoes, 00:29:12.500 --> 00:29:13.667 align:middle line:90% and that's just Wes's thing. 00:29:13.667 --> 00:29:16.932 align:middle line:84% So Wes will walk around the wintertime with just 00:29:16.932 --> 00:29:17.640 align:middle line:90% in his bare feet. 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.640 align:middle line:84% Well, if it was cold in Middletown, Connecticut, 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:21.770 align:middle line:84% so if it's cold, he might put on some socks, 00:29:21.770 --> 00:29:23.150 align:middle line:90% but he never wore shoes. 00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:28.460 align:middle line:84% So he gets this gig with The Lion. 00:29:28.460 --> 00:29:31.313 align:middle line:84% So they go to Las Vegas, and the way the business works, 00:29:31.313 --> 00:29:32.480 align:middle line:90% they didn't really rehearse. 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.730 align:middle line:84% He's a bass player, he was supposed to know the tunes. 00:29:34.730 --> 00:29:36.590 align:middle line:84% He's going to make it or not on the gig. 00:29:36.590 --> 00:29:39.320 align:middle line:84% So he shows up on the gig in Las Vegas. 00:29:39.320 --> 00:29:42.500 align:middle line:84% He was dressed he had on just the right clothes and well-- 00:29:42.500 --> 00:29:43.760 align:middle line:90% from here to here. 00:29:43.760 --> 00:29:45.500 align:middle line:84% He had on the right suit and everything. 00:29:45.500 --> 00:29:46.100 align:middle line:90% Looked good. 00:29:46.100 --> 00:29:47.240 align:middle line:90% Clean. 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:48.740 align:middle line:84% Had his aftershave, he smelled good. 00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:49.830 align:middle line:90% He wasn't dirty now. 00:29:49.830 --> 00:29:52.490 align:middle line:84% He just didn't have his shoes on. 00:29:52.490 --> 00:29:57.230 align:middle line:84% But he's playing a formal gig, so he had on black socks. 00:29:57.230 --> 00:30:00.520 align:middle line:84% So he plays the gig, and they said, that's good, man. 00:30:00.520 --> 00:30:01.280 align:middle line:90% He plays the gig. 00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:02.780 align:middle line:90% He's fine. 00:30:02.780 --> 00:30:04.250 align:middle line:90% Gig is over. 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:07.490 align:middle line:84% Yeah, baby, you sound good, but come with me. 00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:09.900 align:middle line:90% Took him upstairs to his-- 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:11.460 align:middle line:90% they're on the road, mind you. 00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:15.070 align:middle line:84% Took him upstairs to his room, opens the closet, 00:30:15.070 --> 00:30:18.480 align:middle line:84% and Wes said he had 10 pairs of shoes 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:20.310 align:middle line:90% on the floor in this closet. 00:30:20.310 --> 00:30:23.250 align:middle line:84% 10 pairs of all kinds of hip shoes. 00:30:23.250 --> 00:30:25.860 align:middle line:90% 10 pairs of shoes, just shoes. 00:30:25.860 --> 00:30:27.570 align:middle line:90% Looked like a shoe store. 00:30:27.570 --> 00:30:31.690 align:middle line:84% And he said, baby, one of those is yours. 00:30:31.690 --> 00:30:32.940 align:middle line:90% You can take any one you want. 00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:35.640 align:middle line:84% Take two pairs if you want, but you don't come 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.400 align:middle line:90% on my stage with no shoes on. 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:40.500 align:middle line:90% And went out the room. 00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:43.530 align:middle line:84% So Wes played the gig with some very nice shoes, 00:30:43.530 --> 00:30:46.860 align:middle line:90% but he was serious about that. 00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:48.840 align:middle line:84% He didn't make any cracks about-- 00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:50.940 align:middle line:84% now, if Wes hadn't played the bass correctly, 00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:53.565 align:middle line:84% he would have fired him, and he wouldn't have gotten any shoes. 00:30:53.565 --> 00:30:56.010 align:middle line:84% So it wasn't like bass playing didn't matter, 00:30:56.010 --> 00:30:58.627 align:middle line:84% it's that it was the total picture. 00:30:58.627 --> 00:31:00.960 align:middle line:84% In case I forget, let me just tell you the tuxedo story, 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:05.220 align:middle line:84% and then I'll get on and let you hear some more music. 00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:09.260 align:middle line:84% My time with Dizzy, as I told you, that's the way it was. 00:31:09.260 --> 00:31:13.950 align:middle line:84% It was 1970 something, probably '75 or '76, somewhere in there. 00:31:13.950 --> 00:31:16.890 align:middle line:90% 00:31:16.890 --> 00:31:18.540 align:middle line:90% Get the call. 00:31:18.540 --> 00:31:19.170 align:middle line:90% Go down. 00:31:19.170 --> 00:31:22.017 align:middle line:84% We're going to play a week with Dizzy, 00:31:22.017 --> 00:31:23.100 align:middle line:90% no time for the rehearsal. 00:31:23.100 --> 00:31:24.892 align:middle line:84% So-and-so couldn't make it, you're the one. 00:31:24.892 --> 00:31:26.225 align:middle line:90% Come on down. 00:31:26.225 --> 00:31:29.830 align:middle line:84% It starts at whatever it was, 9:30. 00:31:29.830 --> 00:31:30.330 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:31:30.330 --> 00:31:31.770 align:middle line:90% I'll play with Diz. 00:31:31.770 --> 00:31:36.270 align:middle line:84% Now, the big festival was in town, the Newport Jazz 00:31:36.270 --> 00:31:38.320 align:middle line:84% Festival, George Wein's Festival, as it happened, 00:31:38.320 --> 00:31:40.800 align:middle line:90% I had a gig before. 00:31:40.800 --> 00:31:45.240 align:middle line:84% I had a gig at Lincoln Center with Marian McPartland, 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:46.180 align:middle line:90% actually, her band. 00:31:46.180 --> 00:31:48.013 align:middle line:84% She put her band together, so I was playing. 00:31:48.013 --> 00:31:53.580 align:middle line:84% Now, for that gig, you had to wear a tuxedo for the gig 00:31:53.580 --> 00:31:54.510 align:middle line:90% at Lincoln Center. 00:31:54.510 --> 00:31:58.320 align:middle line:84% Now, at that time in my life, I was a young whippersnapper 00:31:58.320 --> 00:32:00.060 align:middle line:90% and part of the new generation. 00:32:00.060 --> 00:32:00.960 align:middle line:90% I didn't own a tux. 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.552 align:middle line:90% I figured that was-- 00:32:03.552 --> 00:32:05.760 align:middle line:84% I don't know what I thought, but I didn't have a tux. 00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:06.720 align:middle line:90% So I had to go rent. 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.553 align:middle line:84% Every time I got a gig where I needed a tux, 00:32:08.553 --> 00:32:09.630 align:middle line:90% I had to go rent a tux. 00:32:09.630 --> 00:32:11.518 align:middle line:84% And I waited until the last minute. 00:32:11.518 --> 00:32:12.810 align:middle line:90% Oh, shit, I got to rent my tux. 00:32:12.810 --> 00:32:14.940 align:middle line:84% So literally, just before the gig, 00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.920 align:middle line:84% I lived in Brooklyn, I run down, downtown Brooklyn. 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.850 align:middle line:90% I went, look, I need a tux. 00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:24.070 align:middle line:84% So they had one tux, one tux left that fit me, 00:32:24.070 --> 00:32:27.570 align:middle line:84% and it was one of the tux with the shirts. 00:32:27.570 --> 00:32:31.110 align:middle line:84% This was one of the most elaborate shirts I ever seen. 00:32:31.110 --> 00:32:35.130 align:middle line:84% The tux was just a tux, but it was a nice tux, 00:32:35.130 --> 00:32:39.990 align:middle line:84% but the shirt had all these ruffles and piping on the side. 00:32:39.990 --> 00:32:42.120 align:middle line:90% I mean, just woof. 00:32:42.120 --> 00:32:45.360 align:middle line:84% Now, I thought that was funny because well, the Marian 00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:47.040 align:middle line:84% McPartland gig, that would fit right in. 00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:48.120 align:middle line:90% So nobody said a word. 00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:49.350 align:middle line:90% I went out, I played my gig. 00:32:49.350 --> 00:32:51.210 align:middle line:84% Now, because I had the idea was I'm 00:32:51.210 --> 00:32:54.030 align:middle line:84% going to go change because I knew that the dress for Dizzy's 00:32:54.030 --> 00:32:55.530 align:middle line:90% gig was shirt and tie. 00:32:55.530 --> 00:32:57.888 align:middle line:84% And I had my suit in my bag, so when 00:32:57.888 --> 00:32:59.430 align:middle line:84% I'm done at Lincoln Center, I'm going 00:32:59.430 --> 00:33:05.370 align:middle line:84% to change or jump in the cab, go down, make the gig. 00:33:05.370 --> 00:33:10.770 align:middle line:84% Well, in all the running, I forgot my suit. 00:33:10.770 --> 00:33:12.960 align:middle line:84% So when I'm done with Marian, now, I 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:18.630 align:middle line:84% gotta go downtown to the club, and I'm 00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:21.210 align:middle line:90% dressed, a little overdressed. 00:33:21.210 --> 00:33:25.032 align:middle line:90% I got on this super tux. 00:33:25.032 --> 00:33:27.240 align:middle line:84% So I get down, I know some of the people in the band. 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:27.690 align:middle line:90% I know Jimmy. 00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:28.050 align:middle line:90% He's there. 00:33:28.050 --> 00:33:28.530 align:middle line:90% I know Jimmy. 00:33:28.530 --> 00:33:29.250 align:middle line:90% I know some of the cats. 00:33:29.250 --> 00:33:30.970 align:middle line:84% Hey, Bill, they start looking and they start laughing. 00:33:30.970 --> 00:33:32.680 align:middle line:84% I said, OK, guys, look, I'm here. 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:34.287 align:middle line:90% I made a mistake. 00:33:34.287 --> 00:33:35.370 align:middle line:90% Let's just get on with it. 00:33:35.370 --> 00:33:36.330 align:middle line:90% So I'm sitting down. 00:33:36.330 --> 00:33:37.260 align:middle line:84% And now, ladies and gentlemen, cause 00:33:37.260 --> 00:33:39.060 align:middle line:84% it's all about showbiz, that's the point. 00:33:39.060 --> 00:33:40.893 align:middle line:84% Now, ladies and gentlemen, this is the last. 00:33:40.893 --> 00:33:41.970 align:middle line:90% For now, here's the band. 00:33:41.970 --> 00:33:44.095 align:middle line:84% We're up there, warming up and we're sitting there. 00:33:44.095 --> 00:33:45.420 align:middle line:90% Dizzy Gillespie. 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:47.800 align:middle line:90% So Birks comes out. 00:33:47.800 --> 00:33:51.880 align:middle line:84% Gets his trumpet, looks, and he goes-- 00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:53.335 align:middle line:90% and he says in the mic, damn. 00:33:53.335 --> 00:33:57.430 align:middle line:90% 00:33:57.430 --> 00:34:00.910 align:middle line:90% Jimmy, who's the ah-- damn! 00:34:00.910 --> 00:34:03.290 align:middle line:90% And he went on for 10 minutes. 00:34:03.290 --> 00:34:05.260 align:middle line:84% He went on for 10-- well, it wasn't 10 minutes, 00:34:05.260 --> 00:34:06.052 align:middle line:90% probably 5 minutes. 00:34:06.052 --> 00:34:07.810 align:middle line:90% But it felt like three hours-- 00:34:07.810 --> 00:34:08.980 align:middle line:90% damn. 00:34:08.980 --> 00:34:10.270 align:middle line:90% Stand up, brother. 00:34:10.270 --> 00:34:15.070 align:middle line:84% I mean, he just went on and on and on. 00:34:15.070 --> 00:34:16.475 align:middle line:84% Jimmy, these new cats, don't they 00:34:16.475 --> 00:34:18.850 align:middle line:84% know they're not supposed to look better than the leader? 00:34:18.850 --> 00:34:20.770 align:middle line:90% Damn. 00:34:20.770 --> 00:34:22.790 align:middle line:90% I mean, he just went on and on. 00:34:22.790 --> 00:34:25.630 align:middle line:90% I felt about that small. 00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:26.920 align:middle line:90% That's his. 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:30.010 align:middle line:84% Don't come on my set looking like a fool, 00:34:30.010 --> 00:34:31.150 align:middle line:90% and it was all funny. 00:34:31.150 --> 00:34:33.800 align:middle line:84% It was all fun and games and all of that. 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:35.860 align:middle line:84% And everybody was laughing, and the first 00:34:35.860 --> 00:34:39.310 align:middle line:84% set I missed and the tunes that I knew by heart, 00:34:39.310 --> 00:34:42.909 align:middle line:84% and I messed up because I was just so rattled by that whole-- 00:34:42.909 --> 00:34:45.639 align:middle line:84% but by the second set, I got it together, and was fine. 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.179 align:middle line:90% The point is though, I helped. 00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:51.440 align:middle line:84% That was something I gave to the night, 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.760 align:middle line:84% because Dizzy used me to make his comedic entrance 00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:56.810 align:middle line:90% for the day. 00:34:56.810 --> 00:34:59.780 align:middle line:84% If Dizzy didn't do that, we wouldn't be there playing 00:34:59.780 --> 00:35:02.270 align:middle line:90% for those people. 00:35:02.270 --> 00:35:04.220 align:middle line:90% I just run that out. 00:35:04.220 --> 00:35:05.570 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:07.850 align:middle line:90% There he is. 00:35:07.850 --> 00:35:09.300 align:middle line:84% Now, I want to do this next thing. 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:10.980 align:middle line:90% I hope this works. 00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:13.520 align:middle line:90% Let's see now. 00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:14.855 align:middle line:90% I want the RGB. 00:35:14.855 --> 00:35:19.140 align:middle line:90% 00:35:19.140 --> 00:35:21.910 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:35:21.910 --> 00:35:22.410 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:35:22.410 --> 00:35:26.776 align:middle line:90% 00:35:26.776 --> 00:35:29.758 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC] 00:35:29.758 --> 00:35:42.140 align:middle line:90% 00:35:42.140 --> 00:35:43.535 align:middle line:90% See, I have my tux on again. 00:35:43.535 --> 00:36:25.750 align:middle line:90% 00:36:25.750 --> 00:36:27.890 align:middle line:90% OK, that's not Dizzy Gillespie. 00:36:27.890 --> 00:36:30.600 align:middle line:84% You figured that out, and that's also not Arturo Sandoval. 00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:32.900 align:middle line:84% That's me, and that's on my trip to Cuba. 00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:36.560 align:middle line:84% Dizzy's first trip to Cuba was in 1987 or '88 or so. 00:36:36.560 --> 00:36:39.230 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:36:39.230 --> 00:36:40.790 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: Nope. 00:36:40.790 --> 00:36:42.652 align:middle line:90% I don't think so. 00:36:42.652 --> 00:36:45.015 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:36:45.015 --> 00:36:46.890 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: You just wanted to come in and see 00:36:46.890 --> 00:36:48.360 align:middle line:90% what the music was. 00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:51.120 align:middle line:90% Lying about his umbrella. 00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:52.830 align:middle line:90% This was my life, Dizzy. 00:36:52.830 --> 00:36:54.930 align:middle line:84% I had always wanted to go to Cuba. 00:36:54.930 --> 00:36:57.780 align:middle line:84% And I still, I've been now six times. 00:36:57.780 --> 00:37:00.540 align:middle line:84% And like, Dizzy, I live in a country, 00:37:00.540 --> 00:37:04.840 align:middle line:84% I have a passport that says me and Cuba, 00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:06.930 align:middle line:84% there's some problematic stuff going on. 00:37:06.930 --> 00:37:09.900 align:middle line:84% And the problematics don't come from the Cuban people. 00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:11.400 align:middle line:84% The Cuban government has no problem 00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.710 align:middle line:84% letting Americans come in to Cuba, 00:37:13.710 --> 00:37:15.060 align:middle line:90% it's the other way around. 00:37:15.060 --> 00:37:17.130 align:middle line:84% The American government, there's a ban. 00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:23.730 align:middle line:84% There's an embargo, and Americans traveling to Cuba, 00:37:23.730 --> 00:37:28.410 align:middle line:84% there's a very limited license you can get from the Treasury 00:37:28.410 --> 00:37:29.070 align:middle line:90% Department. 00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:30.612 align:middle line:84% You would think the State Department, 00:37:30.612 --> 00:37:32.340 align:middle line:84% turns out from the Treasury Department. 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.800 align:middle line:84% And you can get the license if you're 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:39.090 align:middle line:84% going to do scholarly work or if you're a journalist 00:37:39.090 --> 00:37:40.648 align:middle line:90% or if you're going to-- 00:37:40.648 --> 00:37:42.315 align:middle line:84% I don't know something to do with money. 00:37:42.315 --> 00:37:45.310 align:middle line:90% 00:37:45.310 --> 00:37:46.630 align:middle line:90% I've been several times. 00:37:46.630 --> 00:37:47.860 align:middle line:90% This was my first time. 00:37:47.860 --> 00:37:49.840 align:middle line:90% That time I went very legally. 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:54.280 align:middle line:84% I got the proper credentials and through the Treasury Department 00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:55.390 align:middle line:90% took forever. 00:37:55.390 --> 00:37:57.820 align:middle line:90% I was traveling with a group. 00:37:57.820 --> 00:37:59.890 align:middle line:84% I was traveling with a group of scholars 00:37:59.890 --> 00:38:06.040 align:middle line:84% who went to Cuba to study various Afro-Cuban religious 00:38:06.040 --> 00:38:09.190 align:middle line:90% practices. 00:38:09.190 --> 00:38:12.430 align:middle line:90% Afro-Cuban religious practices. 00:38:12.430 --> 00:38:15.250 align:middle line:90% I was a part of that group. 00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:17.510 align:middle line:84% I had on my scholarly hat, but I'm no fool. 00:38:17.510 --> 00:38:19.030 align:middle line:90% I took my trombone with me. 00:38:19.030 --> 00:38:20.530 align:middle line:90% I'm going to Cuba. 00:38:20.530 --> 00:38:22.900 align:middle line:84% I'm not going to just go with a pencil and paper. 00:38:22.900 --> 00:38:25.000 align:middle line:90% Please. 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.240 align:middle line:84% These two gentlemen act as the camera person is being-- 00:38:28.240 --> 00:38:30.220 align:middle line:84% she wants to show me there's another guy 00:38:30.220 --> 00:38:31.900 align:middle line:90% over here, three drummers. 00:38:31.900 --> 00:38:35.260 align:middle line:90% These are Batá drums. 00:38:35.260 --> 00:38:38.380 align:middle line:84% Now, these same guys, earlier in the day were in Hulguin. 00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:45.990 align:middle line:84% Hulguin is a city on the coast in the Eastern part, 00:38:45.990 --> 00:38:51.810 align:middle line:84% sort of in the middle of Cuba on top on the Atlantic Ocean side. 00:38:51.810 --> 00:38:58.800 align:middle line:84% And it was not too far from the headquarters of United Fruit, 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.970 align:middle line:84% back in the day, but that's another story. 00:39:00.970 --> 00:39:03.360 align:middle line:84% Anyway, we were there for various reasons, 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.760 align:middle line:84% and early in the day, these guys had 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.300 align:middle line:84% drums that looked like conga drums, 00:39:07.300 --> 00:39:08.383 align:middle line:90% and they were conga drums. 00:39:08.383 --> 00:39:11.940 align:middle line:84% And they were playing, and they performed with the dancers. 00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.640 align:middle line:84% You're going to see some of that later, these folkloric, 00:39:14.640 --> 00:39:20.070 align:middle line:84% ritual dances that the Cubans still do for tourists. 00:39:20.070 --> 00:39:22.410 align:middle line:84% You got to go see one of these, and it's great. 00:39:22.410 --> 00:39:23.950 align:middle line:90% It's just wonderful to see. 00:39:23.950 --> 00:39:29.200 align:middle line:84% But this was at night, and we all shared mojitos, et cetera. 00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:31.680 align:middle line:90% And it's a dangerous drink. 00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:35.320 align:middle line:90% 00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:38.065 align:middle line:84% Mojitos are very dangerous, I mean, the real ones. 00:39:38.065 --> 00:39:41.810 align:middle line:90% 00:39:41.810 --> 00:39:45.230 align:middle line:84% A friend, Leonard Brown, had been the year before, 00:39:45.230 --> 00:39:51.680 align:middle line:84% and these guys knew of me, and this was a test. 00:39:51.680 --> 00:39:54.740 align:middle line:90% These guys are part of-- 00:39:54.740 --> 00:39:59.090 align:middle line:84% we call, the Americans call it voodoo or Santeria. 00:39:59.090 --> 00:40:01.370 align:middle line:90% They call it something else. 00:40:01.370 --> 00:40:04.220 align:middle line:84% They're part of the group that provides 00:40:04.220 --> 00:40:07.790 align:middle line:84% the music and the dance for the religious rituals, 00:40:07.790 --> 00:40:10.860 align:middle line:84% and there's a whole secret society aspect of it. 00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:14.210 align:middle line:84% This is the same demographic that Chano Pozo came from. 00:40:14.210 --> 00:40:15.690 align:middle line:90% That's the point of this. 00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:17.390 align:middle line:90% This is the same demographic. 00:40:17.390 --> 00:40:20.420 align:middle line:84% These are the same set of folks that Chano Pozo came from. 00:40:20.420 --> 00:40:21.890 align:middle line:90% Not that these guys knew Chano. 00:40:21.890 --> 00:40:23.960 align:middle line:84% No, they're too young, but I'm not 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:27.410 align:middle line:84% claiming that they're Chano's grandchildren or something. 00:40:27.410 --> 00:40:30.110 align:middle line:84% I never asked them about Chano Pozo. 00:40:30.110 --> 00:40:32.870 align:middle line:84% But in terms of their place in the Cuban society, 00:40:32.870 --> 00:40:36.260 align:middle line:90% this is Chano Pozo people. 00:40:36.260 --> 00:40:39.750 align:middle line:84% And the deal was, we met and hung out in the day, and you 00:40:39.750 --> 00:40:42.690 align:middle line:84% all right, but the real deal, are you all right, 00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:43.620 align:middle line:90% can you play? 00:40:43.620 --> 00:40:46.840 align:middle line:84% They say you're a musician, can you play? 00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:48.900 align:middle line:84% Remember Dizzy said earlier, he told 00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:51.690 align:middle line:84% Stan Getz, Stan, what we need to do is when we get down there, 00:40:51.690 --> 00:40:54.570 align:middle line:84% we take out our horns because they're going to play at us, 00:40:54.570 --> 00:40:57.450 align:middle line:84% we're going to play it then, this whole notion of music 00:40:57.450 --> 00:41:00.960 align:middle line:84% as a form of exchange, of cultural exchange, 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.690 align:middle line:90% of spiritual exchange. 00:41:03.690 --> 00:41:06.540 align:middle line:84% So it's not about I'm going down to look at you or you coming 00:41:06.540 --> 00:41:12.660 align:middle line:84% to look at me, so that whole objective observer business 00:41:12.660 --> 00:41:14.190 align:middle line:90% gets messed with. 00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:16.978 align:middle line:84% If you're a musician, you're supposed to share music. 00:41:16.978 --> 00:41:18.270 align:middle line:90% You ain't no damn ethnographer. 00:41:18.270 --> 00:41:20.250 align:middle line:84% Come down here, can you play, or can't you? 00:41:20.250 --> 00:41:24.048 align:middle line:84% So they had been teasing me, and I didn't think-- 00:41:24.048 --> 00:41:26.010 align:middle line:84% I had my horn because it was there, 00:41:26.010 --> 00:41:28.167 align:middle line:84% but you can see, woman, you who don't know me, 00:41:28.167 --> 00:41:29.250 align:middle line:90% but I'm not ready to play. 00:41:29.250 --> 00:41:30.960 align:middle line:84% If you see me in shorts and sandals, 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.680 align:middle line:90% I'm not ready to play anything. 00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:36.980 align:middle line:84% I'm ready to drink some mojitos, because it was hot. 00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:38.190 align:middle line:90% It was beautiful hot. 00:41:38.190 --> 00:41:41.270 align:middle line:84% I'm ready to drink some mojitos and look 00:41:41.270 --> 00:41:44.270 align:middle line:84% at all the pretty women, but I'm not ready to play the trombone. 00:41:44.270 --> 00:41:46.460 align:middle line:90% I'm not ready to perform. 00:41:46.460 --> 00:41:48.890 align:middle line:84% But this wasn't a performance, you see? 00:41:48.890 --> 00:41:50.967 align:middle line:84% These guys, they were playing for-- everybody 00:41:50.967 --> 00:41:52.550 align:middle line:84% was digging it, because they got down. 00:41:52.550 --> 00:41:53.750 align:middle line:84% I mean, they were good during the day, 00:41:53.750 --> 00:41:55.460 align:middle line:84% but this night, they got their old drums. 00:41:55.460 --> 00:41:56.627 align:middle line:90% These were the ritual drums. 00:41:56.627 --> 00:41:59.583 align:middle line:84% Some priest and priestess had blessed these drums. 00:41:59.583 --> 00:42:00.500 align:middle line:90% This is the real deal. 00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:02.810 align:middle line:84% If you touch one of those drums without asking, 00:42:02.810 --> 00:42:04.340 align:middle line:90% you might lose your hand-- 00:42:04.340 --> 00:42:05.945 align:middle line:90% seriously. 00:42:05.945 --> 00:42:07.880 align:middle line:84% I mean, these guys are not fooling around. 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:09.320 align:middle line:90% That's the stuff. 00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:10.250 align:middle line:90% That's power. 00:42:10.250 --> 00:42:12.883 align:middle line:90% That's not just some drums. 00:42:12.883 --> 00:42:14.300 align:middle line:84% And so they were playing, and then 00:42:14.300 --> 00:42:16.730 align:middle line:84% all of a sudden, the rhythm went somewhere else. 00:42:16.730 --> 00:42:18.410 align:middle line:84% You talk about the Afro-Cuban rhythms, 00:42:18.410 --> 00:42:19.760 align:middle line:90% the rhythms went somewhere else. 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:20.745 align:middle line:90% I'm digging it. 00:42:20.745 --> 00:42:22.370 align:middle line:84% And all of a sudden I hear, Toca, Toca. 00:42:22.370 --> 00:42:23.780 align:middle line:90% Bill, Toca. 00:42:23.780 --> 00:42:26.810 align:middle line:90% Oh, shit. 00:42:26.810 --> 00:42:28.940 align:middle line:84% So I didn't share with you at the very beginning, 00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:32.720 align:middle line:84% I went out and knelt down, hoping that they'd not ask me. 00:42:32.720 --> 00:42:35.450 align:middle line:84% No, they kept playing, and they said, play. 00:42:35.450 --> 00:42:37.760 align:middle line:90% Now, here I am. 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:39.900 align:middle line:90% What am I going to do? 00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:41.310 align:middle line:90% I'm where I want to be. 00:42:41.310 --> 00:42:43.370 align:middle line:84% I'm with the music that I want to hear. 00:42:43.370 --> 00:42:44.730 align:middle line:90% Nobody passed out a chart. 00:42:44.730 --> 00:42:48.470 align:middle line:84% We're not playing "Night in Tunisia." 00:42:48.470 --> 00:42:50.630 align:middle line:90% We're not playing "10 10 Dayo." 00:42:50.630 --> 00:42:52.490 align:middle line:84% We're not even playing "Guantanamera." 00:42:52.490 --> 00:42:55.880 align:middle line:84% They're just playing the root stuff. 00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:57.743 align:middle line:84% They're playing the rhythmic stuff. 00:42:57.743 --> 00:42:59.660 align:middle line:84% They're calling on the gods and the goddesses. 00:42:59.660 --> 00:43:01.910 align:middle line:90% They're calling on the orishas. 00:43:01.910 --> 00:43:03.200 align:middle line:90% What am I going to do? 00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:04.970 align:middle line:90% And what I decided-- 00:43:04.970 --> 00:43:07.053 align:middle line:84% I always remember this decision, I still 00:43:07.053 --> 00:43:08.720 align:middle line:84% don't know if it was the right decision. 00:43:08.720 --> 00:43:13.550 align:middle line:84% What I decided was that I needed to look 00:43:13.550 --> 00:43:19.010 align:middle line:84% for not Bill, the bebopper, not Bill, the Afro-Latin, not Bill 00:43:19.010 --> 00:43:23.570 align:middle line:90% the salsa, the trombone player. 00:43:23.570 --> 00:43:26.790 align:middle line:84% Surrounded by all this rhythms, what you going to do? 00:43:26.790 --> 00:43:32.630 align:middle line:84% And I made a conscious decision not to try to play some tune. 00:43:32.630 --> 00:43:36.500 align:middle line:84% Now, the day before and during that day and the next day, 00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:38.930 align:middle line:84% I hung out with the musicians, and we did we play. 00:43:38.930 --> 00:43:40.190 align:middle line:90% I got that on the tape too. 00:43:40.190 --> 00:43:41.030 align:middle line:90% I may or may not show you. 00:43:41.030 --> 00:43:42.590 align:middle line:84% I played "Night in Tunisia" and all that stuff 00:43:42.590 --> 00:43:43.715 align:middle line:90% because that's what you do. 00:43:43.715 --> 00:43:45.170 align:middle line:90% Sa Davis was down there with us. 00:43:45.170 --> 00:43:48.170 align:middle line:84% We had a great time, but this was something different. 00:43:48.170 --> 00:43:49.910 align:middle line:90% This is the top of the building. 00:43:49.910 --> 00:43:52.010 align:middle line:90% This was the roof of a building. 00:43:52.010 --> 00:43:55.850 align:middle line:90% There are no lights except here. 00:43:55.850 --> 00:43:56.670 align:middle line:90% This little town. 00:43:56.670 --> 00:43:57.710 align:middle line:90% There's no lights. 00:43:57.710 --> 00:44:00.470 align:middle line:90% It's dark it's pretty. 00:44:00.470 --> 00:44:01.580 align:middle line:90% Mojitos. 00:44:01.580 --> 00:44:05.120 align:middle line:84% And these guys are talking about Toca. 00:44:05.120 --> 00:44:07.940 align:middle line:90% So what do you do? 00:44:07.940 --> 00:44:10.790 align:middle line:90% Well, this is what I did. 00:44:10.790 --> 00:44:13.465 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC] 00:44:13.465 --> 00:44:42.200 align:middle line:90% 00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:45.920 align:middle line:90% Now, is that Afro-Cuban? 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.230 align:middle line:90% Is that Afro-Cuban bebop? 00:44:48.230 --> 00:44:51.270 align:middle line:90% That's a real question. 00:44:51.270 --> 00:44:52.230 align:middle line:90% Is that free jazz? 00:44:52.230 --> 00:44:56.470 align:middle line:90% 00:44:56.470 --> 00:45:00.310 align:middle line:84% Is that a 6 foot 1" person about to shit in his pants? 00:45:00.310 --> 00:45:02.680 align:middle line:90% What is it? 00:45:02.680 --> 00:45:03.460 align:middle line:90% What is it? 00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:10.940 align:middle line:90% 00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:13.500 align:middle line:90% Microphones. 00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:14.000 align:middle line:90% Really? 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:23.552 align:middle line:90% 00:45:23.552 --> 00:45:26.010 align:middle line:84% And it goes on for a while, but there's some other things I 00:45:26.010 --> 00:45:28.013 align:middle line:90% wanted to show you before we-- 00:45:28.013 --> 00:45:29.430 align:middle line:84% the point here is that what is it? 00:45:29.430 --> 00:45:31.920 align:middle line:84% It's what-- I love, that's a great shot there. 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:32.650 align:middle line:90% I like that. 00:45:32.650 --> 00:45:33.150 align:middle line:90% I did. 00:45:33.150 --> 00:45:33.650 align:middle line:90% I knew that. 00:45:33.650 --> 00:45:35.680 align:middle line:90% I planned that. 00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:37.980 align:middle line:90% I like that a lot. 00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:41.340 align:middle line:84% The punch line is when we're all done, they said I was OK, 00:45:41.340 --> 00:45:46.360 align:middle line:84% and they bought me some more drinks and we were fine. 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:48.330 align:middle line:84% But the point is that I will always 00:45:48.330 --> 00:45:56.140 align:middle line:84% remember how I felt then, and I was not analytical, 00:45:56.140 --> 00:46:00.520 align:middle line:84% I didn't even try to figure out where the [? cloud ?] lay was. 00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:05.800 align:middle line:84% And the question I think that it poses 00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:10.350 align:middle line:84% for you guys, if you're going to be in music that you know 00:46:10.350 --> 00:46:16.060 align:middle line:84% about, second or third hand, and then you find yourself 00:46:16.060 --> 00:46:18.167 align:middle line:90% in it firsthand what do you do? 00:46:18.167 --> 00:46:19.750 align:middle line:84% remember, I asked you the first thing. 00:46:19.750 --> 00:46:21.940 align:middle line:84% I asked you, what do you give back? 00:46:21.940 --> 00:46:26.270 align:middle line:84% You've gotta find in yourself what you want to give back, 00:46:26.270 --> 00:46:27.520 align:middle line:90% because that's your best shot. 00:46:27.520 --> 00:46:30.070 align:middle line:84% If you try to be cute, you're going to fuck up. 00:46:30.070 --> 00:46:36.203 align:middle line:84% I'm telling you, if you're in the vicinity of the real cats, 00:46:36.203 --> 00:46:37.870 align:middle line:84% if you're in the vicinity of these guys, 00:46:37.870 --> 00:46:40.000 align:middle line:84% if you're in the vicinity of Dizzy, 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:42.310 align:middle line:84% if you're in the presence of people that are really 00:46:42.310 --> 00:46:46.150 align:middle line:84% doing it, if you try to be cute, you're going to mess up. 00:46:46.150 --> 00:46:48.790 align:middle line:84% Because you haven't been at it long enough that 00:46:48.790 --> 00:46:50.185 align:middle line:90% you can get over being cute. 00:46:50.185 --> 00:46:54.150 align:middle line:90% 00:46:54.150 --> 00:46:57.330 align:middle line:84% You gotta figure out where you are and bring that 00:46:57.330 --> 00:47:01.290 align:middle line:84% to the moment, whatever that moment is, 00:47:01.290 --> 00:47:03.360 align:middle line:84% whether it's writing out for bars 00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:05.970 align:middle line:84% or whatever it is, find out where you are, 00:47:05.970 --> 00:47:08.610 align:middle line:90% and use that to give back. 00:47:08.610 --> 00:47:11.220 align:middle line:90% 00:47:11.220 --> 00:47:12.519 align:middle line:90% That makes sense? 00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:13.896 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:47:13.896 --> 00:47:16.537 align:middle line:90% 00:47:16.537 --> 00:47:18.620 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: That's Harry Belafonte is the narrator. 00:47:18.620 --> 00:47:20.570 align:middle line:90% Actually, it's his video. 00:47:20.570 --> 00:47:23.810 align:middle line:84% Real quick though, the separations 00:47:23.810 --> 00:47:27.170 align:middle line:84% that we think of as separations, there's a separation 00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:29.630 align:middle line:84% that we make between people who are musicians, particularly 00:47:29.630 --> 00:47:31.670 align:middle line:84% jazz musicians and people who are intellectuals. 00:47:31.670 --> 00:47:38.450 align:middle line:84% Dizzy just gave that little funny story about him and Chano 00:47:38.450 --> 00:47:42.230 align:middle line:84% being able to talk to each other in the 1940s 00:47:42.230 --> 00:47:48.890 align:middle line:84% is about a clear exposition of world international African 00:47:48.890 --> 00:47:51.560 align:middle line:84% diasporan concepts that you could possibly have. 00:47:51.560 --> 00:47:54.290 align:middle line:90% 00:47:54.290 --> 00:47:56.540 align:middle line:84% It wasn't done in an institution. 00:47:56.540 --> 00:48:00.740 align:middle line:84% It wasn't the result of years-- it was these two guys 00:48:00.740 --> 00:48:06.820 align:middle line:84% on the street, talking negritude, saying-- 00:48:06.820 --> 00:48:09.820 align:middle line:84% and Chano was the one who brought it. 00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:12.320 align:middle line:84% The crazy drummer from Cuba brings that. 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:15.100 align:middle line:84% And at the time, by 1948, in Harlem, 00:48:15.100 --> 00:48:18.520 align:middle line:84% the going back and forth between musicians and poets 00:48:18.520 --> 00:48:21.610 align:middle line:84% and dancers between Harlem and Cuba 00:48:21.610 --> 00:48:24.700 align:middle line:90% have been going on for years. 00:48:24.700 --> 00:48:29.170 align:middle line:84% Langston Hughes was a frequent traveler to Cuba, 00:48:29.170 --> 00:48:31.450 align:middle line:84% and some of the Cuban, Nicolas Guillén, 00:48:31.450 --> 00:48:34.390 align:middle line:84% in particular, very important Cuban poet, 00:48:34.390 --> 00:48:37.840 align:middle line:84% he and Langston are literally like that 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.820 align:middle line:84% in more ways than one, but literally like that. 00:48:39.820 --> 00:48:45.010 align:middle line:84% And Langston translated a lot of his poetry. 00:48:45.010 --> 00:48:48.513 align:middle line:84% That connection-- and that was long before the Castro 00:48:48.513 --> 00:48:49.930 align:middle line:84% revolution, that was long before-- 00:48:49.930 --> 00:48:52.990 align:middle line:84% back in the '30s and the '40s, people in America, 00:48:52.990 --> 00:48:55.450 align:middle line:84% the ruling classes of America thought of Cuba 00:48:55.450 --> 00:48:58.030 align:middle line:84% as their personal, private brothel. 00:48:58.030 --> 00:49:01.690 align:middle line:90% 00:49:01.690 --> 00:49:05.500 align:middle line:84% And there was a lot of travel back and forth between Harlem 00:49:05.500 --> 00:49:09.340 align:middle line:84% and Havana, between Harlem and Santiago 00:49:09.340 --> 00:49:12.910 align:middle line:90% of musicians, poets, dancers. 00:49:12.910 --> 00:49:15.550 align:middle line:84% This is the same time when Katherine Dunham travels 00:49:15.550 --> 00:49:18.430 align:middle line:84% to Cuba and to Jamaica to find a way 00:49:18.430 --> 00:49:23.800 align:middle line:84% to make her dance technique, her African diasporan ballet dance 00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:24.650 align:middle line:90% technique. 00:49:24.650 --> 00:49:28.540 align:middle line:84% So there's a tendency to think of these new jazz studies 00:49:28.540 --> 00:49:34.652 align:middle line:84% things as these 21st century items, devised by people who 00:49:34.652 --> 00:49:35.860 align:middle line:90% are designated intellectuals. 00:49:35.860 --> 00:49:37.277 align:middle line:84% If you call Dizzy an intellectual, 00:49:37.277 --> 00:49:40.510 align:middle line:84% he will point you out, or actually just laugh at you. 00:49:40.510 --> 00:49:44.650 align:middle line:84% He was very happy to be who he was. 00:49:44.650 --> 00:49:47.230 align:middle line:84% So I just throw that out, that the categories, 00:49:47.230 --> 00:49:51.820 align:middle line:84% the names mean something, but the divisions aren't as clear 00:49:51.820 --> 00:49:54.250 align:middle line:90% as the names imply. 00:49:54.250 --> 00:49:57.790 align:middle line:84% The very fact that Dizzy could ask his friend, Mario, to get 00:49:57.790 --> 00:50:01.120 align:middle line:84% him a drummer and the rest, literally, 00:50:01.120 --> 00:50:04.810 align:middle line:84% is cultural history of significant-- 00:50:04.810 --> 00:50:06.280 align:middle line:84% one result of that conversation is 00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:10.300 align:middle line:84% that Max Roach stopped playing drums for five years. 00:50:10.300 --> 00:50:14.050 align:middle line:84% Max heard [? genre ?] and said, shit, I can't handle that. 00:50:14.050 --> 00:50:15.460 align:middle line:90% What was that? 00:50:15.460 --> 00:50:21.550 align:middle line:84% And Max literally stopped and got a wire recorder 00:50:21.550 --> 00:50:23.890 align:middle line:84% and went up into the hills of Haiti for two years 00:50:23.890 --> 00:50:28.210 align:middle line:84% doing what we call ethnomusicological discovery. 00:50:28.210 --> 00:50:34.638 align:middle line:84% Because what Chano put in to what they were doing was just, 00:50:34.638 --> 00:50:36.680 align:middle line:84% Max needed to go somewhere else to figure it out. 00:50:36.680 --> 00:50:38.222 align:middle line:84% But what you got to understand, Chano 00:50:38.222 --> 00:50:40.510 align:middle line:84% had been playing with jazz bands in Cuba, 00:50:40.510 --> 00:50:42.410 align:middle line:90% because it went both ways. 00:50:42.410 --> 00:50:44.860 align:middle line:90% It's not just the one. 00:50:44.860 --> 00:50:46.090 align:middle line:90% What, I have 2 minutes now? 00:50:46.090 --> 00:50:46.982 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:50:46.982 --> 00:50:49.252 align:middle line:90% 00:50:49.252 --> 00:50:50.710 align:middle line:84% BILL LOWE: Now, if you want to hear 00:50:50.710 --> 00:50:53.720 align:middle line:84% the rest of that, as it turns out, 00:50:53.720 --> 00:50:56.560 align:middle line:84% the reason why I mentioned Wes Brown, 00:50:56.560 --> 00:50:58.690 align:middle line:84% Wes Brown is going to be the bass player 00:50:58.690 --> 00:51:00.190 align:middle line:84% or is the bass player in the group 00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:05.770 align:middle line:84% that I'm bringing to Bunker Hill Community College on Thursday, 00:51:05.770 --> 00:51:07.790 align:middle line:90% the 13th of November. 00:51:07.790 --> 00:51:10.430 align:middle line:90% That's a week from today. 00:51:10.430 --> 00:51:12.940 align:middle line:84% Oh, Lord, I got to go finish my arrangements. 00:51:12.940 --> 00:51:17.020 align:middle line:84% Anyway, the 13th at 1:00 from 1:00 until 2:15, 00:51:17.020 --> 00:51:19.330 align:middle line:84% we're doing a tribute to Dizzy Gillespie, 00:51:19.330 --> 00:51:26.350 align:middle line:84% and the band is being billed as Bill Lowe's Afro-Cuban Jazz 00:51:26.350 --> 00:51:27.965 align:middle line:90% Tent. 00:51:27.965 --> 00:51:29.590 align:middle line:84% But here's something a little different 00:51:29.590 --> 00:51:30.730 align:middle line:90% that I'm doing with it. 00:51:30.730 --> 00:51:32.890 align:middle line:84% The core of this, the center of this, 00:51:32.890 --> 00:51:37.900 align:middle line:84% the drumming center, I have on traps, Toma. 00:51:37.900 --> 00:51:40.990 align:middle line:84% Toma Fujiwara is playing trap drums. 00:51:40.990 --> 00:51:45.220 align:middle line:84% And the African percussion is not Sa Davis, 00:51:45.220 --> 00:51:52.990 align:middle line:84% but in fact, it's Mr. Obeng, who is a Ghanaian master musician, 00:51:52.990 --> 00:51:55.320 align:middle line:90% who I worked with many years. 00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:58.150 align:middle line:84% He used to be at Wesleyan, and Martin Obeng. 00:51:58.150 --> 00:52:01.420 align:middle line:84% And he literally is a Ghanaian drum master, 00:52:01.420 --> 00:52:03.430 align:middle line:84% and he comes with all of his Ghanaian stuff 00:52:03.430 --> 00:52:05.000 align:middle line:84% and the talking drums and all this. 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:08.350 align:middle line:84% And so we're going to do Afro Afro-Cuban. 00:52:08.350 --> 00:52:12.490 align:middle line:84% And Frank Wilkins is in the band and Fred Woodard and Taylor 00:52:12.490 --> 00:52:14.990 align:middle line:90% Bynum and a lot of people. 00:52:14.990 --> 00:52:16.690 align:middle line:90% So you should come out, 1:00. 00:52:16.690 --> 00:52:18.700 align:middle line:84% It's a free concert, and remember 00:52:18.700 --> 00:52:22.100 align:middle line:84% I said at the beginning, what do I do with this stuff? 00:52:22.100 --> 00:52:25.210 align:middle line:84% So what I decided to do for this is I've put together 00:52:25.210 --> 00:52:28.090 align:middle line:90% a suite, a suite of four-- 00:52:28.090 --> 00:52:32.170 align:middle line:84% I haven't figured out, four or five of Dizzy's tunes. 00:52:32.170 --> 00:52:37.540 align:middle line:84% And the rhythm is going to start at approximately 1:10, 00:52:37.540 --> 00:52:39.880 align:middle line:84% and then at 2:15, it's going to stop. 00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:41.950 align:middle line:84% And in between, we're going to play all 00:52:41.950 --> 00:52:44.260 align:middle line:90% of these tunes, this one suite. 00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:48.370 align:middle line:84% See, if the music that's going before you has gone before you, 00:52:48.370 --> 00:52:51.860 align:middle line:84% then you use that to make your next thing. 00:52:51.860 --> 00:52:53.570 align:middle line:84% I don't have any problem with that. 00:52:53.570 --> 00:52:54.710 align:middle line:90% You may have. 00:52:54.710 --> 00:52:58.370 align:middle line:84% It may suck once you hear it, but the intent 00:52:58.370 --> 00:53:02.150 align:middle line:84% is, this is what went before, and I'm playing with it. 00:53:02.150 --> 00:53:05.840 align:middle line:84% I got a Ghanaian guy doing the core, of course, 00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:06.800 align:middle line:90% not Chano Pozo. 00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:10.520 align:middle line:84% It's not even Sa Davis, it's Martin Obeng, and it's-- 00:53:10.520 --> 00:53:11.187 align:middle line:90% oh, my goodness. 00:53:11.187 --> 00:53:12.103 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Sorry, Bill. 00:53:12.103 --> 00:53:13.400 align:middle line:90% BILL LOWE: Don't be sorry. 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:17.200 align:middle line:84% It's time to leave Thank you all very much. 00:53:17.200 --> 00:53:21.000 align:middle line:90%