1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:01,670 The following content is provided 2 00:00:01,670 --> 00:00:03,820 under a Creative Commons license. 3 00:00:03,820 --> 00:00:06,540 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue 4 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:10,120 to offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:12,690 To make a donation or to view additional materials 6 00:00:12,690 --> 00:00:16,430 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:16,430 --> 00:00:17,205 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:24,875 --> 00:00:26,250 PROFESSOR: My name is Mark Harvey 9 00:00:26,250 --> 00:00:28,530 and I'm currently teaching a course called 10 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:30,450 Musical Improvisation. 11 00:00:30,450 --> 00:00:33,820 And this demonstration is part of that course in collaboration 12 00:00:33,820 --> 00:00:36,130 with [? Mitas ?] and Phil Scarff, 13 00:00:36,130 --> 00:00:37,640 who's the leader of Natraj, which 14 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,905 presented a great concert yesterday. 15 00:00:39,905 --> 00:00:42,922 I know some of you were there, but if you weren't there, 16 00:00:42,922 --> 00:00:44,630 maybe you'll be able to hear Natraj again 17 00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:46,850 in another setting. 18 00:00:46,850 --> 00:00:49,925 And so, Ravikiran is the other presenter. 19 00:00:49,925 --> 00:00:53,370 He'll be coming a little bit late, but he will be here. 20 00:00:53,370 --> 00:00:56,250 So we're going to begin with Phil. 21 00:00:56,250 --> 00:00:58,490 PHIL SCARFF: So today's workshop is 22 00:00:58,490 --> 00:01:02,090 going to be on application of frameworks 23 00:01:02,090 --> 00:01:07,170 from Indian classical music to improvisation in other idioms. 24 00:01:07,170 --> 00:01:11,241 And in Indian classical music there are two major systems. 25 00:01:11,241 --> 00:01:12,740 They're really two different idioms. 26 00:01:12,740 --> 00:01:14,281 There's North Indian classical music, 27 00:01:14,281 --> 00:01:15,992 which is also called Hindustani music. 28 00:01:15,992 --> 00:01:17,700 And there's South Indian classical music, 29 00:01:17,700 --> 00:01:20,390 which is also called Carnatic music. 30 00:01:20,390 --> 00:01:24,420 So I'm going to be talking about Hindustani music today. 31 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:27,640 And our guest Chitravina Ravikiran 32 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,994 will be covering Carnatic music after I 33 00:01:31,994 --> 00:01:33,160 talk about Hindustani music. 34 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,980 So it'll be interesting to see the contrast between the two. 35 00:01:37,980 --> 00:01:40,570 So you might want to pay attention to that. 36 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:46,972 So what we'll do is, you've got a handout. 37 00:01:46,972 --> 00:01:48,930 I see people seem to have that, so that's good. 38 00:01:48,930 --> 00:01:50,930 So I'm going to talk about a number of things 39 00:01:50,930 --> 00:01:52,530 that are outlined on the handout. 40 00:01:52,530 --> 00:01:54,738 I'm going to demonstrate some stuff as we go through. 41 00:01:54,738 --> 00:02:00,310 If you have questions feel free to raise your hand or whatever 42 00:02:00,310 --> 00:02:02,990 as we go, because I'd rather take the questions 43 00:02:02,990 --> 00:02:06,460 as we go than lose people if I'm going off on a tangent 44 00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:07,880 and you don't follow me. 45 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,860 Probably other people have similar questions, too. 46 00:02:11,860 --> 00:02:14,010 So what I'm going to do to start with is, 47 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:18,697 I'm going to present an alap in raga Hamsadhwani. 48 00:02:18,697 --> 00:02:20,530 For those who were at the concert yesterday, 49 00:02:20,530 --> 00:02:23,560 we played the piece "Red Swan," which is in raga Hamsadhwani. 50 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,000 So this sort of ties back to the concert. 51 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,990 I'm not going to go too much into the nuts 52 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:30,817 and bolts of ragas. 53 00:02:30,817 --> 00:02:33,150 There'll be a little bit of discussion here and there as 54 00:02:33,150 --> 00:02:36,280 needed to cover the frameworks, but this 55 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,040 is more about sort of a higher level 56 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,210 view of Indian classical music and how 57 00:02:41,210 --> 00:02:43,420 the frameworks from that music can 58 00:02:43,420 --> 00:02:46,510 be translated to other situations. 59 00:02:46,510 --> 00:02:48,210 So I'm going to play an alap, which 60 00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:50,260 is an exposition of the raga. 61 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:55,360 It's done kind of solo with no percussion, just melody. 62 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,270 And it starts out without meter. 63 00:02:59,270 --> 00:03:01,670 And it can evolve to a point where 64 00:03:01,670 --> 00:03:04,280 there's sort of an internal meter going on, 65 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,960 but there's still no percussion. 66 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,745 So what I want you to do is listen to this 67 00:03:07,745 --> 00:03:09,370 and pay attention to some of the things 68 00:03:09,370 --> 00:03:13,170 like how we're making use of range, 69 00:03:13,170 --> 00:03:16,180 note density, rhythmic development. 70 00:03:20,917 --> 00:03:22,000 Well, mainly those things. 71 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,590 We'll talk about some other things afterwards. 72 00:03:23,590 --> 00:03:25,340 But listen for those things and then we'll 73 00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:26,810 discuss them after I finish. 74 00:03:29,792 --> 00:03:32,774 [MUSIC] 75 00:08:58,930 --> 00:09:00,895 [APPLAUSE] 76 00:09:00,895 --> 00:09:01,395 Thank you. 77 00:09:10,764 --> 00:09:13,442 OK, so did anybody notice anything about range-- 78 00:09:13,442 --> 00:09:15,147 the use of range in that? 79 00:09:19,043 --> 00:09:19,875 Yeah. 80 00:09:19,875 --> 00:09:22,291 AUDIENCE: It seemed to start in the lower end of the range 81 00:09:22,291 --> 00:09:24,531 and slowly build up to through the entire range. 82 00:09:24,531 --> 00:09:25,864 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, that's right. 83 00:09:25,864 --> 00:09:26,960 Very good. 84 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,340 And this is very typical of a Hindustani alap. 85 00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:33,519 It starts around the low tonic. 86 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:36,060 It may kind of build into it and work a little bit around it, 87 00:09:36,060 --> 00:09:38,500 but the focus is going to be on introducing that tonic 88 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:40,300 and sort of establishing the tonic. 89 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:42,830 Then, you can optionally move down, 90 00:09:42,830 --> 00:09:44,420 which I did a little bit of, and you 91 00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:46,990 can expand the range downward. 92 00:09:46,990 --> 00:09:48,407 Then you can start expanding up. 93 00:09:48,407 --> 00:09:49,865 And you go up kind of sequentially. 94 00:09:49,865 --> 00:09:52,200 It can be note by note, it can be phrase by phrase, 95 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,960 but more or less it goes sequentially upwards. 96 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,750 And then as you do this development, 97 00:09:57,750 --> 00:09:58,770 then the range expands. 98 00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:02,020 We're not moving a confined range upward, 99 00:10:02,020 --> 00:10:04,050 we're expanding the range. 100 00:10:04,050 --> 00:10:07,150 So as this progresses, then, we use more and more of the range. 101 00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:12,090 And then there's a resolution point at the upper tonic. 102 00:10:12,090 --> 00:10:13,854 And then it can optionally continue 103 00:10:13,854 --> 00:10:15,520 above that, which I did a little bit of. 104 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,650 And then the range again then starts condensing back down 105 00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:20,740 and comes back to the Sa. 106 00:10:20,740 --> 00:10:23,820 And then, depending upon the tradition, 107 00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:27,130 the performer may decide then to do another section where 108 00:10:27,130 --> 00:10:29,890 it goes into more of a rhythmic presentation. 109 00:10:29,890 --> 00:10:35,030 So there's like an internal time going on. 110 00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:37,850 And so I did that next. 111 00:10:37,850 --> 00:10:41,140 And then, so what other things did people notice? 112 00:10:41,140 --> 00:10:44,585 Are there any comments about, say, density of notes? 113 00:10:44,585 --> 00:10:45,210 Yeah, go ahead. 114 00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:47,001 AUDIENCE: Well, not about density of notes, 115 00:10:47,001 --> 00:10:50,104 but noticed that you only used a few notes of the scale. 116 00:10:50,104 --> 00:10:51,930 I think four or five. 117 00:10:51,930 --> 00:10:53,360 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, that's true. 118 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,770 I used five notes because this raga only has five notes. 119 00:10:56,770 --> 00:10:59,490 So, yes, it's a pentatonic raga, so only five notes 120 00:10:59,490 --> 00:11:00,430 are there in the raga. 121 00:11:00,430 --> 00:11:06,360 So in most ragas, you don't go outside whatever the notes are 122 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,590 that are defined as being part of the raga. 123 00:11:08,590 --> 00:11:10,010 You don't go outside those. 124 00:11:10,010 --> 00:11:12,620 Occasionally, there are some ragas, exceptions, 125 00:11:12,620 --> 00:11:13,750 where you do. 126 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:15,160 But for the most part, you don't. 127 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:16,660 So that's why I stuck to five notes. 128 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:18,076 But you're right about that, good. 129 00:11:18,076 --> 00:11:19,240 That's good observation. 130 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,020 So any observations about note density? 131 00:11:23,020 --> 00:11:24,985 How it may have varied or developed or evolved? 132 00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:30,280 Or, say, frequency of notes. 133 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,640 How long did the notes last? 134 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:34,980 Yes. 135 00:11:34,980 --> 00:11:37,710 AUDIENCE: The ones at the top or the bottom of the range 136 00:11:37,710 --> 00:11:39,534 were usually longer. 137 00:11:39,534 --> 00:11:40,200 PHIL SCARFF: OK. 138 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,830 That's a good observation. 139 00:11:41,830 --> 00:11:45,826 When I started out, I was playing much more sustained. 140 00:11:45,826 --> 00:11:47,450 When I got up to the high tonic, I also 141 00:11:47,450 --> 00:11:49,770 sustained a bit, that's true. 142 00:11:49,770 --> 00:11:51,090 And any other comments? 143 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:51,944 Yes. 144 00:11:51,944 --> 00:11:53,152 AUDIENCE: It was progressive. 145 00:11:53,152 --> 00:11:55,582 So you started out with long notes 146 00:11:55,582 --> 00:12:03,340 and you progressed and went into faster and more diminutions. 147 00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:04,680 PHIL SCARFF: Yes, that's right. 148 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,780 So the notes came faster, at a faster pace. 149 00:12:07,780 --> 00:12:09,010 A higher density of notes. 150 00:12:09,010 --> 00:12:11,850 It started out with fewer notes, much more contemplative kind 151 00:12:11,850 --> 00:12:12,800 of playing. 152 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,860 And then as this involved, then the notes 153 00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:18,950 came at a more rapid pace gradually. 154 00:12:18,950 --> 00:12:20,590 So that's another thing. 155 00:12:20,590 --> 00:12:22,850 So note density's another framework. 156 00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:24,830 Oh I forgot to mention. 157 00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:26,720 Now, what I wanted to do is, I'm going 158 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,480 to talk about each of these frameworks. 159 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,105 And I'm going to talk about what is the tradition in Hindustani 160 00:12:31,105 --> 00:12:33,190 music, and then also how can we extrapolate 161 00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:35,850 the tradition in other ways, maybe changing a parameter 162 00:12:35,850 --> 00:12:38,390 here or there to use the same kind of idea, 163 00:12:38,390 --> 00:12:40,520 but extrapolate it and make it into something else 164 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:41,920 and then also apply. 165 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,630 You can apply the tradition directly 166 00:12:43,630 --> 00:12:46,360 or you can apply the extrapolation. 167 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:47,910 Any of those things are possible. 168 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:50,020 So of course, we talked about the range. 169 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:52,360 That can be applied directly to another improvisation 170 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,130 in another style. 171 00:12:54,130 --> 00:12:56,790 But we can also make changes to the range. 172 00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:58,610 So instead of starting on a low note, 173 00:12:58,610 --> 00:13:00,727 we can start on a high note. 174 00:13:00,727 --> 00:13:02,060 And we can build the range down. 175 00:13:02,060 --> 00:13:02,910 Instead of building the range up, 176 00:13:02,910 --> 00:13:04,260 we can build the range down. 177 00:13:04,260 --> 00:13:07,750 Or maybe we can start with a very wide range 178 00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:09,670 and then condense it down and then 179 00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:11,890 focus on a note at the end. 180 00:13:11,890 --> 00:13:13,770 So there's a lot of different possibilities, 181 00:13:13,770 --> 00:13:15,540 things you can do with the range. 182 00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:16,940 So that's the framework. 183 00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:19,720 And then the idea is, you can use the parameters 184 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,766 from the tradition, or you can adjust them 185 00:13:21,766 --> 00:13:23,140 and make some changes and come up 186 00:13:23,140 --> 00:13:26,500 with some new ideas for other improvisations. 187 00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,060 So the same with note density. 188 00:13:28,060 --> 00:13:29,480 So does anybody have any ideas? 189 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,105 What could we do with note density that 190 00:13:31,105 --> 00:13:36,070 might make it a little different from what you heard just now? 191 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:38,240 Any ideas about what we could do instead 192 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,070 of starting with long notes and then 193 00:13:40,070 --> 00:13:42,720 progressing to short notes and faster lines, what 194 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,120 are some other things that one could do in a performance? 195 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:45,510 Yes. 196 00:13:45,510 --> 00:13:47,340 AUDIENCE: Keep the same density throughout. 197 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:48,960 PHIL SCARFF: You could keep the same density throughout. 198 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:49,501 That's right. 199 00:13:49,501 --> 00:13:50,464 That's one option. 200 00:13:50,464 --> 00:13:51,922 Any other options you can think of? 201 00:13:51,922 --> 00:13:52,070 Yeah. 202 00:13:52,070 --> 00:13:53,390 AUDIENCE: You could play backwards. 203 00:13:53,390 --> 00:13:55,015 PHIL SCARFF: You could do it backwards. 204 00:13:55,015 --> 00:13:55,525 Exactly. 205 00:13:55,525 --> 00:13:56,640 Yeah, exactly. 206 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:57,750 Those are all great ideas. 207 00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:58,958 So you could do it backwards. 208 00:13:58,958 --> 00:14:02,085 You could start with very fast lines, very rapid notes, 209 00:14:02,085 --> 00:14:03,970 very rapid passages, high note density, 210 00:14:03,970 --> 00:14:08,750 and then work your way back down to a very slow, longer notes, 211 00:14:08,750 --> 00:14:11,570 less dense presentation. 212 00:14:11,570 --> 00:14:17,090 So another thing is, in Hindustani music 213 00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:18,770 we have a thing called chalan, which 214 00:14:18,770 --> 00:14:22,280 refers to things like characteristic phrases 215 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,480 that are used over and over in compositions 216 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,780 and in improvisation, a kind of thematic material 217 00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:30,570 that comes back. 218 00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:33,820 And so that can take the form of actual melodic fragments. 219 00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:37,490 Or it can also be rules like, you may not 220 00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:40,160 play a certain note in ascent if you played 221 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,200 another note before it, and things like this 222 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,900 can also be part of the chalan. 223 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:46,654 So one thing that I was doing, and I'm not sure 224 00:14:46,654 --> 00:14:48,070 how apparent this might have been, 225 00:14:48,070 --> 00:14:52,795 but some phrases that are common in Hamsadhwani. 226 00:14:52,795 --> 00:14:59,308 First of all, many times-- [PLAYS F-SHARP] we start 227 00:14:59,308 --> 00:15:02,300 on the third and end on the second. 228 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:05,330 So you heard me play a lot of phrases that would start-- 229 00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:08,430 [PLAYS F-SHARP]-- on this pitch and end on [PLAYS E]. 230 00:15:08,430 --> 00:15:10,414 So you can do this-- [PLAYS PHRASE] 231 00:15:10,414 --> 00:15:19,742 or [PLAYS MORE PHRASES]-- like that. 232 00:15:19,742 --> 00:15:21,950 And then there are some characteristic phrases, also, 233 00:15:21,950 --> 00:15:23,648 like this-- [PLAYS PHRASES]. 234 00:15:26,492 --> 00:15:28,920 Those two phrases are very common. 235 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,130 Even this-- [PLAYS PHRASE]. 236 00:15:32,130 --> 00:15:33,759 So those things, you heard those coming 237 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:34,800 back over and over again. 238 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,970 How obvious they were, I'm not sure, 239 00:15:36,970 --> 00:15:40,320 but that's part of the way we present the music. 240 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,540 So we can take that idea and, in another context, 241 00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:48,260 we can take like, say, a small melodic fragment, 242 00:15:48,260 --> 00:15:54,000 and use that as like a little theme you keep coming back to 243 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,150 in the improvisation. 244 00:15:56,150 --> 00:16:01,409 So for example, if you take-- let me turn this off. 245 00:16:01,409 --> 00:16:03,700 You take a tune-- in fact, this happens in compositions 246 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:04,200 quite a bit. 247 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,070 So for example, a jazz piece like "Tenor Madness" 248 00:16:08,070 --> 00:16:12,380 by Sonny Rollins uses a thematic fragment 249 00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:13,470 that keeps coming back. 250 00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:15,720 And we can also use that as a basis for improvisation. 251 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,510 So I'll play that composition and then play 252 00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:23,508 a little improv using that kind of fragment as an idea. 253 00:16:23,508 --> 00:16:25,740 [PLAYS "TENOR MADNESS"] 254 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:54,500 Something like that. 255 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,220 You can take that little, those themes-- [PLAYS THEME] 256 00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:59,900 and [PLAYS THEME], which is a variation, 257 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,390 and use that in build an improvisation around that. 258 00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:04,990 So that's kind of an extrapolation 259 00:17:04,990 --> 00:17:07,180 of the use of chalan in Hindustani music. 260 00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:13,079 OK, now, towards the end, did anybody notice anything 261 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:15,569 different about what I did towards the end of my alap 262 00:17:15,569 --> 00:17:17,844 presentation? 263 00:17:17,844 --> 00:17:20,010 AUDIENCE: You started moving to a rhythm [INAUDIBLE] 264 00:17:20,010 --> 00:17:21,200 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, I moved into rhythm 265 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,990 and I also started repeating notes. 266 00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:26,695 Like-- [PLAYS EXAMPLES]. 267 00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:35,860 So that's called jhala. 268 00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:40,529 And even in that case, I started with a repetition. 269 00:17:40,529 --> 00:17:42,820 The pulse of the repetition, or the rate of repetition, 270 00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:44,577 was a little bit slower. 271 00:17:44,577 --> 00:17:45,535 And then I built it up. 272 00:17:45,535 --> 00:17:47,670 I made it faster, and then I made it quite fast 273 00:17:47,670 --> 00:17:48,630 towards the end. 274 00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:50,990 So even that, there was a note density kind 275 00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:55,090 of progression in that presentation as well. 276 00:17:55,090 --> 00:17:58,020 So for jhala, where we're repeating 277 00:17:58,020 --> 00:18:00,209 notes in kind of a rhythmic fashion, 278 00:18:00,209 --> 00:18:01,750 does anybody have any ideas about how 279 00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:02,820 you might extrapolate? 280 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:05,480 What could you do differently using that kind of concept 281 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,400 but changing a parameter or two here or there? 282 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,862 Does anybody have any ideas? 283 00:18:10,862 --> 00:18:11,362 Yeah. 284 00:18:11,362 --> 00:18:13,147 AUDIENCE: Can you move the notes around, rather than 285 00:18:13,147 --> 00:18:13,797 repeat the same note? 286 00:18:13,797 --> 00:18:15,450 PHIL SCARFF: You can move notes around, right. 287 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:16,440 Rather than repeating the same note, 288 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,840 you could move notes around. 289 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:18,970 That's a great idea. 290 00:18:18,970 --> 00:18:25,830 And another thought I had was, instead of repeating them 291 00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:30,390 in more or less equal length, you could vary the length. 292 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:32,942 Like you could say, play a long note, and then 293 00:18:32,942 --> 00:18:34,400 a shorter note, and a shorter note, 294 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,410 and a shorter-- so you condense down the repetition. 295 00:18:37,410 --> 00:18:40,820 So maybe like-- [PLAYS EXAMPLE]. 296 00:18:53,099 --> 00:18:55,140 Something like that, which is not typically done. 297 00:18:55,140 --> 00:18:56,848 Usually when the jhala starts, it kind of 298 00:18:56,848 --> 00:18:59,740 starts at a moderate clip. 299 00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:00,620 So that's one idea. 300 00:19:00,620 --> 00:19:01,911 Or you could even slow it down. 301 00:19:01,911 --> 00:19:04,860 You can start very fast and come down to slower speed. 302 00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:07,214 So some things that can be done with that, too, 303 00:19:07,214 --> 00:19:09,130 to change it around. 304 00:19:11,850 --> 00:19:15,234 So then one other one other thing is rhythmic progression. 305 00:19:15,234 --> 00:19:16,900 And I think that was already alluded to, 306 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:23,580 but I started out in a very rubato mode, 307 00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:27,240 where I was playing not with really any time implied 308 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,950 and with longer notes. 309 00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:33,440 And then as the note density increased, 310 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,780 after a while I went into a time and started 311 00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:38,920 playing lines that were in time, but kind of in a moderate clip. 312 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,628 And then after that, I went into the jhala and the jhala built 313 00:19:41,628 --> 00:19:45,620 up to a much faster internal speed. 314 00:19:45,620 --> 00:19:48,340 So there was a progression of rhythmic ideas 315 00:19:48,340 --> 00:19:52,279 as well, which, again, we can change parameters on that. 316 00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:53,820 You can start with a very fast rhythm 317 00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:55,944 and move to a slower rhythm or something like that. 318 00:19:55,944 --> 00:19:58,840 Or you could be in time and then go out of time-- 319 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,600 that kind of thing can be used. 320 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,960 OK, now another thing that is done, another framework, 321 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,090 is called bistar. 322 00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:09,440 And in bistar, what we do, it's like the beginning 323 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,540 of the alap, where we're playing rubato style, 324 00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:15,290 but it's done over time. 325 00:20:15,290 --> 00:20:18,950 So this would be after the composition is introduced 326 00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:21,170 and after the percussion comes in 327 00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:25,270 and there's a rhythmic cycle going on at a certain speed. 328 00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:27,760 The performer may elect to play in that speed, which 329 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,126 would be very obvious, but then you could also go out of time. 330 00:20:31,126 --> 00:20:33,250 While the time's going on, you can play out of time 331 00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:34,030 on top of that. 332 00:20:34,030 --> 00:20:35,630 That's called bistar. 333 00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:37,940 I guess I won't try to demonstrate that right now, 334 00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:40,030 but that's another idea that can be used. 335 00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:46,540 OK then, there's a technique called gatkari. 336 00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:50,030 And the gat means the composition and kari 337 00:20:50,030 --> 00:20:51,300 means, like, play. 338 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:53,290 So you play with the composition is basically 339 00:20:53,290 --> 00:20:54,440 what it means, literally. 340 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,520 So in this case, I haven't played the composition yet. 341 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,730 So what I'll do is I'll play for you now just the first line 342 00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:02,800 of a simple composition in Hamsadhwani. 343 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,625 And this is in a 16 beat cycle. 344 00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:10,325 [PLAYS MUSIC] 345 00:21:30,784 --> 00:21:33,380 So that's the first line of the composition. 346 00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:35,500 So traditionally, what can happen is, 347 00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:38,030 you can take a line of the composition, 348 00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:41,405 and in that cycle of 16 beats, part of the cycle, 349 00:21:41,405 --> 00:21:43,780 you play the composition and then, for part of the cycle, 350 00:21:43,780 --> 00:21:44,720 improvise. 351 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,800 So for example, you could play the first eight 352 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:47,860 beats of the composition. 353 00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:49,318 And then improvise for eight beats. 354 00:21:49,318 --> 00:21:50,180 That adds up to 16. 355 00:21:50,180 --> 00:21:52,580 And then you keep repeating that. 356 00:21:52,580 --> 00:21:56,110 So it stays aligned with the cycle of the composition. 357 00:21:56,110 --> 00:21:58,365 So I'll just demonstrate a little of that right now. 358 00:21:58,365 --> 00:22:01,335 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 359 00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:22,980 So that's an idea that's called gatkari, or a framework. 360 00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:30,525 And now, one thing we could do to change it up-- well, 361 00:22:30,525 --> 00:22:31,150 let me ask you. 362 00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:32,110 What ideas do you have? 363 00:22:32,110 --> 00:22:32,910 What could be done? 364 00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:34,250 Can you think of any ideas on how 365 00:22:34,250 --> 00:22:36,333 you might change a parameter to make it different? 366 00:22:39,259 --> 00:22:39,800 Any thoughts? 367 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:40,383 Yes, go ahead. 368 00:22:40,383 --> 00:22:42,650 AUDIENCE: Rather than coming back to the first half, 369 00:22:42,650 --> 00:22:43,858 come back to the second half. 370 00:22:43,858 --> 00:22:45,690 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, that's right, exactly. 371 00:22:45,690 --> 00:22:47,440 You can even come back to different points 372 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,560 in the composition. 373 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,980 So the first time through the cycle, 374 00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:53,390 maybe you improvise on the last eight beats. 375 00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:56,390 Then maybe next time you start on beat five. 376 00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:58,460 And maybe you go for four beats and then 377 00:22:58,460 --> 00:22:59,400 you come back to the composition. 378 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:00,105 So you could do that. 379 00:23:00,105 --> 00:23:02,271 You kind of mix it up and improvise, come in and out 380 00:23:02,271 --> 00:23:04,190 and improvise in different sections. 381 00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:05,950 That would be a way to extrapolate that. 382 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,110 OK, and now there's another framework called layakari. 383 00:23:14,110 --> 00:23:18,120 And laya has to do with the rhythm, 384 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:19,400 and again kari is like play. 385 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,050 So this is like rhythm play. 386 00:23:21,050 --> 00:23:25,630 So in this framework, what is done is, 387 00:23:25,630 --> 00:23:28,529 the performer will play different rhythmic patterns 388 00:23:28,529 --> 00:23:29,570 or rhythmic combinations. 389 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,170 There's more emphasis on rhythm in this particular framework. 390 00:23:37,170 --> 00:23:41,480 So I've given in a handout a few examples. 391 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,910 But basically, let's take this 16-beat cycle. 392 00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:55,300 I think it might make sense if we have people clap for this. 393 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:55,800 One second. 394 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,230 I'll show you a clapping pattern. 395 00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:07,000 So in this rhythmic cycle, which is called tintal, 396 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,940 the typical clapping pattern is pretty simple. 397 00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:16,546 It goes like this-- [CLAPS] 1, 2 3, 4, [CLAPS] 5, 6, 7, 8, 398 00:24:16,546 --> 00:24:20,200 [UPSIDE-DOWN CLAP] 9, 10, 11, 12, [CLAPS] 13, 14, 15, 16. 399 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:20,920 And [CLAPS] 1. 400 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,750 So we're clapping every four beats. 401 00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:27,580 And the third clap is done as a wave, 402 00:24:27,580 --> 00:24:29,460 or upside down-- you flip your hand over. 403 00:24:29,460 --> 00:24:31,720 So everybody do this with me. 404 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,264 Let's see-- I'll just count four beats 405 00:24:34,264 --> 00:24:36,180 and we'll start at the beginning of the cycle. 406 00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:40,340 One, two, three, four-- [CLAPS] 1, 2, 3, 4, [CLAPS] 5, 407 00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:43,820 6, 7, 8, [CLAPS] 9, 10, 11, 12 [CLAPS] 13, 408 00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:47,660 14, 15, 16. [CLAPS] 2, 3, 4, [CLAPS] 409 00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:52,250 6, 7, 8, [CLAPS] 10, 11, 12, [CLAPS] 14, 15, 16. 410 00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:52,980 OK, good. 411 00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:54,480 Now, what I'm going to ask you to do 412 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,800 is do that clapping pattern while I play. 413 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,250 So keep the time going. 414 00:25:00,250 --> 00:25:04,250 So what I'll do is, I'll play a few rhythmic combinations 415 00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:08,280 and I'll play some of them slowly, 416 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,180 using quarter notes, essentially, 417 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:13,750 just so you can hear more easily how they work. 418 00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:18,000 And then I'll play some faster, also, more like eighth notes. 419 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,272 So it'll give you a little more sense 420 00:25:20,272 --> 00:25:21,480 of how it might be performed. 421 00:25:25,260 --> 00:25:27,340 I'll start off with simple ones and make 422 00:25:27,340 --> 00:25:28,892 it a little more complicated as I go. 423 00:25:31,670 --> 00:25:34,199 So I'll give you four beats, and I'll probably 424 00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:36,490 play the composition once or twice just to get started. 425 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:40,800 But I'll give you four beats and we'll start the clapping, OK? 426 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,575 One, two, three, four. 427 00:25:42,575 --> 00:25:45,050 [PLAYS MUSIC WITH STUDENTS CLAPPING] 428 00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:36,110 OK, good. 429 00:26:36,110 --> 00:26:38,560 So that's some examples of different ways 430 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:39,960 you can set the rhythm. 431 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,800 You can also leave out, in these patterns-- 432 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,410 Well, actually, let me play one or two more. 433 00:26:45,410 --> 00:26:49,376 So for example, if you take the one where I did three, three, 434 00:26:49,376 --> 00:26:53,551 three, three, and four, altogether it comes out to 16. 435 00:26:53,551 --> 00:26:55,300 So I did three, three, three, three, four. 436 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:57,660 So what you can do is, if you leave out 437 00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:02,600 the first note in each set, it's like a variation. 438 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,460 So let's do the clapping pattern again. 439 00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:11,210 One, two, three, four. [CLAPPING STARTS] 440 00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:14,514 First I'll play the whole thing, then I'll leave out the note. 441 00:27:14,514 --> 00:27:16,999 [PLAYING MUSIC] 442 00:27:38,410 --> 00:27:42,390 It's a little hard to line up the clapping 443 00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:46,100 with the improvisation there, but that was the idea. 444 00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:48,770 And so you can take that thing. 445 00:27:48,770 --> 00:27:52,080 Now, does anybody have any ideas for how to extrapolate that. 446 00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:56,990 Yes. 447 00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:59,490 AUDIENCE: You could, rather than be in just a 16-beat cycle, 448 00:27:59,490 --> 00:28:01,490 go further [INAUDIBLE]. 449 00:28:01,490 --> 00:28:03,750 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, sure, absolutely you could. 450 00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:05,550 You could do two cycles. 451 00:28:05,550 --> 00:28:07,390 You could do whatever, yeah, that's true. 452 00:28:07,390 --> 00:28:09,100 You can make it a longer pattern. 453 00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:12,320 I'll say that would be probably considered 454 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:13,540 to be part of the tradition. 455 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:15,800 It's not really exactly an extrapolation 456 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,830 outside the tradition. 457 00:28:16,830 --> 00:28:19,510 But yes, that's a great idea. 458 00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:21,370 So it's something to think about. 459 00:28:21,370 --> 00:28:24,080 This one, I haven't really come up 460 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,190 with any brilliant ideas for how to extrapolate this, 461 00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:32,820 but I'm sure that in this room there's enough mental capacity 462 00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:36,310 to think of some other ways of doing this. 463 00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:39,840 So I'll leave that to you to think about. 464 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,800 OK, now a few other examples. 465 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,500 There's a technique called tans, or a framework 466 00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:46,790 called tans, which are basically fast lines. 467 00:28:46,790 --> 00:28:48,939 And there are different ways to build tans. 468 00:28:48,939 --> 00:28:50,730 So I'm going to demonstrate a few of those. 469 00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:54,710 So first of all, you can use just a limited number of notes, 470 00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:57,580 like, say, three or four notes to construct tans. 471 00:28:57,580 --> 00:28:59,756 So then it's like, in a confined range, 472 00:28:59,756 --> 00:29:01,380 you're playing sort of a rapid passage. 473 00:29:01,380 --> 00:29:05,082 So something like this 474 00:29:05,082 --> 00:29:07,974 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 475 00:29:14,050 --> 00:29:17,810 Something like that is a confined range. 476 00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:20,400 And so what could we do with that? 477 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,810 Well, I'm going to kind of move along 478 00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:24,700 because we need to switch over to Ravikiran 479 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:25,850 in a couple of minutes. 480 00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:28,330 So some ideas there. 481 00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:30,550 You could take some tones. 482 00:29:30,550 --> 00:29:34,290 Now, notice I used all adjacent tones in the scale. 483 00:29:34,290 --> 00:29:37,070 So you could take some non-adjacent tones, maybe. 484 00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:40,180 Three non-adjacent tones, maybe with larger intervals 485 00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:42,500 in between, and use those instead. 486 00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:44,730 Something like that is a way to extrapolate that. 487 00:29:44,730 --> 00:29:48,010 Then we have tans that expand and contract. 488 00:29:48,010 --> 00:29:50,462 So let me play an example of that. 489 00:29:50,462 --> 00:29:52,917 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 490 00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:08,720 So there I started low, I expanded up 491 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,250 a little bit above the high tonic, 492 00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:11,590 and then came back down again. 493 00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:12,940 So expanding, contracting. 494 00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:16,590 You can contract, expand, those kind of things. 495 00:30:16,590 --> 00:30:21,340 Some ideas for how to extrapolate that. 496 00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:23,540 OK, instead of going in sequence, 497 00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:25,720 maybe go out of sequence. 498 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,740 So instead of sequentially expanding, maybe 499 00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:31,642 you start with a small range, then go to a large range, 500 00:30:31,642 --> 00:30:33,850 then maybe a medium range, then an even bigger range, 501 00:30:33,850 --> 00:30:36,330 or something like that, so you kind of mix it up. 502 00:30:36,330 --> 00:30:38,940 It's an idea for extrapolating that. 503 00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:41,940 Then we have a type of tan which is called a palta tan. 504 00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:43,720 Here we take a short melodic fragment 505 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,570 and repeat it going up and down the scale, 506 00:30:46,570 --> 00:30:49,700 making any necessary adjustments to accommodate the chalan. 507 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,820 So for example, if we take a simple pattern like this-- 508 00:30:52,820 --> 00:30:56,400 [PLAYS PATTERN] three notes-- we can make a tan out of that. 509 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,329 So I'll just demonstrate how that works. 510 00:30:58,329 --> 00:31:00,824 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 511 00:31:08,102 --> 00:31:09,460 So something like that. 512 00:31:09,460 --> 00:31:12,510 Now, that could be extrapolated by maybe, 513 00:31:12,510 --> 00:31:14,700 instead of going up in a scalar fashion, 514 00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:15,890 you go up in intervals. 515 00:31:15,890 --> 00:31:18,220 Like you go up in some sort of arpeggio. 516 00:31:18,220 --> 00:31:22,000 Or maybe, instead of picking adjacent notes, 517 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,211 you pick notes that have intervals in between, 518 00:31:24,211 --> 00:31:26,460 and then you take that pattern and move it up and down 519 00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:27,180 the scale. 520 00:31:27,180 --> 00:31:29,590 Things like that can be done to extrapolate. 521 00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:33,180 Then finally, another type of tan, which is frequently 522 00:31:33,180 --> 00:31:35,570 used to conclude a segment-- so we've 523 00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:37,700 been doing these other types of tans, confined 524 00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:39,746 range, expanding-contracting, palta tans, 525 00:31:39,746 --> 00:31:40,870 different things like this. 526 00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:43,550 We may choose to conclude that segment by just 527 00:31:43,550 --> 00:31:44,630 played a straight tan. 528 00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:47,080 It goes straight up or straight down, pretty simple. 529 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:53,840 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] Something like that-- or [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 530 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,550 to conclude a segment, that's usually used. 531 00:31:56,550 --> 00:32:03,100 So that's pretty much the end of my part of the presentation. 532 00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:08,690 Are there any other questions before we move on to our guest? 533 00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:10,736 OK, yes, go ahead. 534 00:32:10,736 --> 00:32:14,002 AUDIENCE: Could you chromaticize what you're doing? 535 00:32:14,002 --> 00:32:15,210 PHIL SCARFF: Yes, absolutely. 536 00:32:15,210 --> 00:32:16,700 AUDIENCE: With ornamentation? 537 00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:18,782 PHIL SCARFF: Oh, yeah. 538 00:32:18,782 --> 00:32:19,490 Absolutely, yeah. 539 00:32:19,490 --> 00:32:21,240 You can chromaticize it. 540 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,910 I mean, this can be applied to anything. 541 00:32:23,910 --> 00:32:26,030 So you could do anything chromatically. 542 00:32:26,030 --> 00:32:29,510 You could use chord progressions. 543 00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:31,190 It can be free form. 544 00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:33,060 You can move all around. 545 00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:35,980 Yeah, anything can be done to extrapolate. 546 00:32:35,980 --> 00:32:38,800 It's really a wide open scenario. 547 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:39,650 Yeah. 548 00:32:39,650 --> 00:32:40,150 Yes. 549 00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:42,566 AUDIENCE: What's the instrument that plays the background? 550 00:32:42,566 --> 00:32:45,210 PHIL SCARFF: Oh, this is an electronic tambura, 551 00:32:45,210 --> 00:32:47,210 which takes the place of the real tambura, which 552 00:32:47,210 --> 00:32:50,420 is a stringed instrument which is used to provide a drone. 553 00:32:50,420 --> 00:32:52,530 In Indian classical music, we always 554 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:55,450 have a drone going on while the music is happening. 555 00:32:55,450 --> 00:32:57,826 AUDIENCE: And is it this resonant in the actual tambura? 556 00:32:57,826 --> 00:32:59,075 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, it is very. 557 00:32:59,075 --> 00:33:02,430 Yeah, it is really quite resonant, yes. 558 00:33:02,430 --> 00:33:03,256 Yes. 559 00:33:03,256 --> 00:33:07,720 AUDIENCE: This might be slightly off topic, but what 560 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,944 are the similarities and differences between chord 561 00:33:10,944 --> 00:33:14,680 progressions in jazz versus using a raga in Indian music? 562 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,060 PHIL SCARFF: Right, so the two idioms 563 00:33:19,060 --> 00:33:21,010 are very similar in a lot of ways. 564 00:33:21,010 --> 00:33:25,230 And so the way I would say you compare a chord progression 565 00:33:25,230 --> 00:33:27,965 to Indian music in, let's say, jazz, right? 566 00:33:27,965 --> 00:33:29,340 That's what you're talking about. 567 00:33:29,340 --> 00:33:33,320 So in a jazz composition, you'll have a fixed length. 568 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,880 Like it might be 32 bars, for example. 569 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,680 And it has a particular chord progression 570 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,300 that lasts for that 32 bars. 571 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:41,070 And then the cycle begins again, and it 572 00:33:41,070 --> 00:33:42,830 keeps on cycling through. 573 00:33:42,830 --> 00:33:44,750 So in Indian classical music, the analogy 574 00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:47,130 is you have the tal, which is the rhythmic cycle. 575 00:33:47,130 --> 00:33:49,599 And that rhythmic cycle has a specific structure 576 00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:51,390 which goes on for whatever number of beats. 577 00:33:51,390 --> 00:33:53,100 It may be 16 beats such as tintal, 578 00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:56,830 which we got a very slight introduction to today. 579 00:33:56,830 --> 00:33:58,580 And that keeps repeating over and over. 580 00:33:58,580 --> 00:34:00,920 So the tal becomes the structure. 581 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,180 And the tabla-- in my interpretation 582 00:34:04,180 --> 00:34:07,520 here, the tabla, which is the percussion that 583 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,780 would perform the tal, is playing specific strokes. 584 00:34:11,780 --> 00:34:15,089 So for example in tintal, the strokes go like this. 585 00:34:15,089 --> 00:34:17,630 I can verbalize the strokes that would be played on the drum. 586 00:34:17,630 --> 00:34:23,429 It goes-- dah, din, din, dah, dah, din, din, dah, dah, tin, 587 00:34:23,429 --> 00:34:27,370 tin, tah, tah, din din, dah. 588 00:34:27,370 --> 00:34:30,550 Those are the 16 beats that define tintal. 589 00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:35,159 So those strokes work in analogous fashion 590 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:36,659 to a chord progression in jazz, so 591 00:34:36,659 --> 00:34:38,670 that it defines where you are in the cycle 592 00:34:38,670 --> 00:34:42,290 and when you're coming back to the beginning of the cycle. 593 00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:44,590 Any other questions? 594 00:34:44,590 --> 00:34:48,362 OK, great, so let's have Ravikiran come up. 595 00:34:48,362 --> 00:34:49,775 PROFESSOR: Thanks, Phil Scarff. 596 00:34:51,904 --> 00:34:52,904 PHIL SCARFF: Yeah, yeah. 597 00:34:52,904 --> 00:34:56,210 The pitches are essentially the same. 598 00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:59,500 But they're slightly different, because the tuning's not 599 00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:01,370 identical. 600 00:35:01,370 --> 00:35:05,500 In Indian classical music we don't use even-tempered tuning. 601 00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:09,540 So it's sort of related to just tuning, 602 00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:11,175 but it's not just tuning, either. 603 00:35:11,175 --> 00:35:12,680 It depends on the raga. 604 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,700 So there's slight differences in the notes, 605 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:16,410 depending on the raga. 606 00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:19,410 But pretty much it's the same 12 chromatic pitches. 607 00:35:23,517 --> 00:35:25,100 So for example, one thing that happens 608 00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:28,160 is, the major third is one of the big discrepancies. 609 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,360 In the even-tempered system, the major third 610 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,540 is, I think, 14 cents above the major third that's 611 00:35:34,540 --> 00:35:36,370 used in Indian classical music, which 612 00:35:36,370 --> 00:35:39,120 is more of a just major third. 613 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,730 And a similar thing happens to the major seventh 614 00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:44,010 because it's related to the fifth. 615 00:35:44,010 --> 00:35:47,010 See, the root and the fifth would be justly tuned, 616 00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:48,810 as opposed to even tempered. 617 00:35:48,810 --> 00:35:51,250 So then the fifth, being justly tuned from the root, 618 00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:53,520 is the major third below the seventh. 619 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,655 So the seventh also is much flatter-- the natural seventh. 620 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,089 All set? 621 00:36:01,089 --> 00:36:02,380 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: Yes, sir. 622 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,550 So good afternoon and-- can you all hear me? 623 00:36:13,290 --> 00:36:17,590 So I think the introduction that Phil 624 00:36:17,590 --> 00:36:21,970 gave toward improvisational techniques 625 00:36:21,970 --> 00:36:25,100 in the North Indian system, much of it actually 626 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:27,480 holds good in the South Indian system of Carnatic music, 627 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,010 as well. 628 00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:37,420 Carnatic is probably about 2000, 2500 years old system. 629 00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:43,440 The origins can be traced back to the era of the vedas 630 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,530 and so forth in India. 631 00:36:45,530 --> 00:36:55,050 But somewhere along the line, probably around the 1300s, 632 00:36:55,050 --> 00:37:01,590 India actually developed two distinct classical systems. 633 00:37:01,590 --> 00:37:03,370 This was also around the time when 634 00:37:03,370 --> 00:37:06,590 there was a lot of Persian guests 635 00:37:06,590 --> 00:37:08,790 in the northern part of India. 636 00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:13,774 So a lot of imports happened, and a kind of a hybrid culture 637 00:37:13,774 --> 00:37:15,440 developed in the northern part of India. 638 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,590 That's why the two systems of music, even today, 639 00:37:18,590 --> 00:37:21,270 they have a lot of common concepts, common roots, 640 00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:24,900 common ideas, common ideals. 641 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:31,360 But the manner in which they have evolved and developed 642 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,570 have varied about 700 years down the line. 643 00:37:35,570 --> 00:37:39,610 So now, the concept of improvisation, 644 00:37:39,610 --> 00:37:44,986 if you can just summarize it, it can either be purely melodic, 645 00:37:44,986 --> 00:37:50,250 or it could be melo-rhythmic, or it could be purely rhythmic. 646 00:37:50,250 --> 00:37:54,150 So that's what it boils down to in most system of music. 647 00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:58,270 And so the example that Phil played of the first period, 648 00:37:58,270 --> 00:38:09,280 like the time, cycle bound but there's no rhythm, [INAUDIBLE] 649 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,340 like the freestyle improvisation, 650 00:38:11,340 --> 00:38:15,510 the pure melodic one, the alapana. 651 00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:19,710 He explained to you how beautifully it's 652 00:38:19,710 --> 00:38:22,280 organized in a particular manner from the lower notes 653 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,150 to the higher notes and from slow speed 654 00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:26,495 to the fastest speeds in Hindustani music. 655 00:38:26,495 --> 00:38:30,620 In Carnatic music, in fact some of the discussions about how 656 00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:35,130 it can be extrapolated were happening, I noticed that. 657 00:38:35,130 --> 00:38:37,020 But in Carnatic music, many of these things 658 00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:39,560 are already applied, in the sense that, you don't always 659 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:40,980 start from the lower notes. 660 00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:43,984 You have several actual situations 661 00:38:43,984 --> 00:38:45,400 where you start from higher notes, 662 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,190 or you actually render in faster speeds first 663 00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:51,010 and then you just come down and finish 664 00:38:51,010 --> 00:38:53,810 with tranquil kind of a feel to it. 665 00:38:53,810 --> 00:38:59,040 Or the other possibility which can also happen 666 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,560 is the interspersing of these all the time. 667 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,320 So there are times when you just keep interspersing 668 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,980 the fast and slow phrases through the improvisation. 669 00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:10,805 Now, I'll just give an example of that. 670 00:39:10,805 --> 00:39:12,300 Can you hear well the instrument? 671 00:39:17,136 --> 00:39:20,112 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 672 00:39:50,970 --> 00:39:54,710 So here you see higher octave, lower octaves fast, slow, 673 00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:59,350 everything happening as the musical dynamics keep 674 00:39:59,350 --> 00:40:02,310 evolving during the course of the improvisation. 675 00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:06,900 This is very typical in many Carnatic ragas, when you do not 676 00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:08,880 really start in a slow fashion. 677 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,370 But the slow to fast, low to high 678 00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:14,190 also holds good in many cases. 679 00:40:14,190 --> 00:40:16,779 Probably about 50-60% of the improvisation 680 00:40:16,779 --> 00:40:18,820 that we do in Carnatic music, pure improvisation, 681 00:40:18,820 --> 00:40:21,480 we do that same kind of development. 682 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,480 But there are exceptions like this, 683 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,680 but the exception has a good percentage of about 30-40% 684 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,070 in Carnatic. 685 00:40:30,070 --> 00:40:31,910 So that's one of the things. 686 00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:35,786 And then if you're looking at pure rhythmic improvisation-- 687 00:40:35,786 --> 00:40:38,160 today we are not having any percussion instruments for me 688 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,826 to actually demonstrate that part of it, 689 00:40:39,826 --> 00:40:46,810 but it's very, very exciting, very involved and very well 690 00:40:46,810 --> 00:40:49,670 defined concepts of rhythm. 691 00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:53,070 So let's actually go to the melo-rhythmic part of it. 692 00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:55,170 Prior to that, I'll also give a parallel 693 00:40:55,170 --> 00:41:00,410 of what Phil showed in the jor and the jhala 694 00:41:00,410 --> 00:41:02,640 kind of improvisation, where we actually 695 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,120 do a similar kind of development in Carnatic also. 696 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,350 It's like, there is an element of rhythm, 697 00:41:09,350 --> 00:41:11,472 but it's not like cyclic rhythm. 698 00:41:11,472 --> 00:41:32,280 [TUNING INSTRUMENT] 699 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,910 This instrument is the chitravina. 700 00:41:36,910 --> 00:41:39,829 Chitravina is like a 20-string slide. 701 00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:41,870 As you can all see, the technique of playing this 702 00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:43,780 is very simple. 703 00:41:43,780 --> 00:41:47,040 I'm sure that all of you can do this in no time. 704 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,920 So all we do is just slide this on the thing 705 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,290 and we get the notes. 706 00:41:52,290 --> 00:41:56,590 I'll just show this example of non-cyclic rhythm 707 00:41:56,590 --> 00:42:01,780 but still some kind of structured improvisation. 708 00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:03,590 This is known as tanam in Carnatic music. 709 00:42:03,590 --> 00:42:05,287 It's slightly distinct from the tan 710 00:42:05,287 --> 00:42:07,040 that you just heard in Hindustani, 711 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,060 where it's more composition based. 712 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:11,810 They also have the composition percussion 713 00:42:11,810 --> 00:42:13,270 happening in that kind of thing. 714 00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:16,080 But here it can be without the percussion also. 715 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,144 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 716 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,200 Kind of thing. 717 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,260 So this is like as you will notice, 718 00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:41,620 there is the element of rhythm, but it's not 719 00:44:41,620 --> 00:44:43,200 like a tangible rhythm. 720 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:49,100 So this is like a semi-rhythmic kind of improvisation. 721 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:53,850 And then we have, the composition typically starts. 722 00:44:53,850 --> 00:45:01,490 I suppose I should add here that Carnatic music has 723 00:45:01,490 --> 00:45:03,650 several times only the composition 724 00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:06,530 rendered with no improvisation. 725 00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:09,415 So there are times when we only just interpret 726 00:45:09,415 --> 00:45:14,740 the composition, because there's a very rich tradition 727 00:45:14,740 --> 00:45:18,980 of several kinds of different musical forms, which 728 00:45:18,980 --> 00:45:21,100 are represented in a typical Carnatic concert. 729 00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:25,970 It's almost like Western classical in that sphere, 730 00:45:25,970 --> 00:45:28,340 except that there's no harmony to the composition, 731 00:45:28,340 --> 00:45:30,520 it's all melodic compositions. 732 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,040 And there's a lot of lyrics also happening in many of them. 733 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,610 So many times, the improvisation could 734 00:45:36,610 --> 00:45:39,990 be optional in many of these compositions. 735 00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:44,160 And in certain times when we do, we 736 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,040 can have a very short improvisation. 737 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,560 For example, it could just be like a few seconds 738 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,645 of the pure melodic prelude that I just played. 739 00:45:51,645 --> 00:45:54,020 And then we just go into the composition. 740 00:45:54,020 --> 00:45:57,050 And then we just move into some improvisation alone 741 00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:59,420 or on top of the compositions. 742 00:45:59,420 --> 00:46:03,340 So now I'll just dwell on two types of improvisation that's 743 00:46:03,340 --> 00:46:07,430 possible in the melo-rhythmic manner. 744 00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:09,370 So once a piece starts, the percussion joins, 745 00:46:09,370 --> 00:46:11,560 and so then we get into the cyclic rhythm. 746 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:16,120 Just like you just had this clapping and finger counting 747 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,920 happening in Hindustani, we have the similar kind of structure. 748 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:27,250 But what happens in Carnatic is that you have the percussion 749 00:46:27,250 --> 00:46:29,820 not merely keeping time but they also 750 00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:33,300 keep improvising on the composition parallel 751 00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:34,800 to what we are playing sometimes. 752 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,841 So when you actually hear it with the percussion, 753 00:46:36,841 --> 00:46:39,460 you can have a very different kind of feel to the thing. 754 00:46:39,460 --> 00:46:43,020 But what I'll do now is just demonstrate a simple tala 755 00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:46,880 like a parallel of the tintal that you just heard. 756 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,890 This is eight counts, so it's known as Adi tala. 757 00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:54,460 So it's [CLAPS] one, two, three, four, 758 00:46:54,460 --> 00:46:57,420 [CLAPS] five, six, [CLAPS] seven, eight. 759 00:46:57,420 --> 00:47:01,060 So it's like, first a beat, followed by three finger counts 760 00:47:01,060 --> 00:47:03,815 starting from the little finger, and then a beat 761 00:47:03,815 --> 00:47:06,740 and a wave of the hand, another beat and a wave of the hand. 762 00:47:06,740 --> 00:47:08,960 So you want to try it with me? 763 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:15,460 So [CLAPS] one, two, three, four, [CLAPS] five, six, 764 00:47:15,460 --> 00:47:17,340 [CLAPS] seven, eight. 765 00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:22,820 [CLAPS] One, two, three, four, [CLAPS] five, six, [CLAPS] 766 00:47:22,820 --> 00:47:24,565 seven, eight. 767 00:47:24,565 --> 00:47:26,680 So this is one of the talas. 768 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,340 I'll also just demonstrate another simple tala. 769 00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:31,940 It's just three counts. 770 00:47:31,940 --> 00:47:34,140 [CLAPS] One, [CLAPS] two, three. 771 00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:36,730 Just two beats and one wave of the hand. 772 00:47:36,730 --> 00:47:39,948 [CLAPS] One, [CLAPS] two, three. [CLAPS] One, [CLAPS] 773 00:47:39,948 --> 00:47:41,410 two, three. 774 00:47:41,410 --> 00:47:43,540 So what I'll do is, I'll take a composition in this 775 00:47:43,540 --> 00:47:47,070 just for contrast, take a small part of this 776 00:47:47,070 --> 00:47:49,530 and just show how the improvisation can happen. 777 00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:52,600 One of them is with the lyrics, because a competition 778 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,000 has lyrics. 779 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,130 So a line from the competition is taken and melodically 780 00:47:57,130 --> 00:48:00,430 developed, keeping the rhythm and the lyrics constant. 781 00:48:00,430 --> 00:48:03,050 Only the melody is skipped, changing. 782 00:48:03,050 --> 00:48:08,250 It's distinct from a melodic variation in the context 783 00:48:08,250 --> 00:48:11,295 that a melodic variation can still have a lot of closeness 784 00:48:11,295 --> 00:48:12,170 to the original line. 785 00:48:12,170 --> 00:48:15,265 But here, the whole thing can change drastically 786 00:48:15,265 --> 00:48:16,640 from the original melody, but you 787 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,360 keep coming back to the original refrain of the line 788 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:21,980 that you took for the improvisation. 789 00:48:21,980 --> 00:48:25,790 So I'll just take one competition 790 00:48:25,790 --> 00:48:28,083 in the style of three counts and just show it to you. 791 00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:42,235 So you all will keep time with me? 792 00:48:42,235 --> 00:48:44,710 [CLAPS] One, [CLAPS] two, three. 793 00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:48,175 [CLAPS] [CLAPS] three. 794 00:48:48,175 --> 00:48:50,528 [PLAYS EXAMPLE] 795 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,895 So this is the main line. 796 00:49:09,895 --> 00:49:13,830 [SINGS] 797 00:49:13,830 --> 00:49:16,760 So this particular composition is in Sanskrit. 798 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,700 [CONTINUES SINGING] 799 00:49:29,070 --> 00:49:31,920 So this line can be then changed. 800 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,620 [CONTINUES SINGING] 801 00:49:43,874 --> 00:49:45,290 So when I play an instrument, I'll 802 00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:48,760 try and vocalize those syllables with the kind 803 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,640 of plucking that I do. 804 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,892 [PLAYS] 805 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,430 So I keep going back to that. 806 00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:17,910 Then a new round of improvisation can start. 807 00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:20,862 [PLAYS] 808 00:50:45,460 --> 00:50:48,960 So this kind of improvisation keeps happening many times. 809 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,547 In a typical concert in Carnatic you 810 00:50:50,547 --> 00:50:52,430 would also have a melodic accompaniment, 811 00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:56,100 which is, 99 out of 100 times, a violin. 812 00:50:56,100 --> 00:51:01,880 The violin in is one of the most common melodic accompanying 813 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,790 instruments in Carnatic music. 814 00:51:03,790 --> 00:51:08,860 It's also a very often used solo or duo instrument. 815 00:51:08,860 --> 00:51:12,380 Since about late 1700s the violin 816 00:51:12,380 --> 00:51:15,890 has been an integral part of Carnatic music in India. 817 00:51:15,890 --> 00:51:18,730 So oftentimes when I play, the accompanist 818 00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:20,280 will respond to the improvisation 819 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,529 in his or her own way and then I continue. 820 00:51:23,529 --> 00:51:25,320 So it's almost like a dialogue, an exchange 821 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,249 is built up between the main artist and that accompanist 822 00:51:28,249 --> 00:51:29,040 during these times. 823 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:30,998 And the percussion, of course, is very dynamic. 824 00:51:30,998 --> 00:51:36,120 So they keep having their own fun when this happens. 825 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,130 And then the other kind of improvisation 826 00:51:38,130 --> 00:51:40,190 that can be possible in a melo-rhythmic manner 827 00:51:40,190 --> 00:51:44,130 in Carnatic is the sol-fa improvisation. 828 00:51:44,130 --> 00:51:47,060 Just like the do re me in Western, 829 00:51:47,060 --> 00:51:49,970 there are seven notes, fundamentally. 830 00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:54,235 They are known as sa, re, ga, ma, pa, dha, ni. 831 00:51:54,235 --> 00:51:56,270 Those are the seven names. 832 00:51:56,270 --> 00:52:03,180 So many times we use those notes themselves to improvise. 833 00:52:03,180 --> 00:52:04,730 [SINGS] 834 00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:14,770 So you just enunciate those notes fast. 835 00:52:14,770 --> 00:52:17,240 In the typical instrument, you can just create a stroke 836 00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,890 for every one of the notes. 837 00:52:19,890 --> 00:52:22,340 [PLAYS] 838 00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:36,559 So it can be just melodic. 839 00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:39,100 Sometimes you can have a lot of interesting rhythmic patterns 840 00:52:39,100 --> 00:52:42,060 just like what you just saw-- maybe descending patterns, 841 00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:44,450 ascending patterns of notes, or sometimes even 842 00:52:44,450 --> 00:52:45,360 kind of patterns. 843 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,322 And I'll just demonstrate some patterns. 844 00:52:48,322 --> 00:52:50,727 [PLAYS] 845 00:52:58,650 --> 00:53:01,300 So one two three one two three one two three one two three 846 00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:04,450 one two three one two three one two three-- [SINGS] 847 00:53:04,450 --> 00:53:06,360 they're just threes. 848 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,540 [SINGS] 849 00:53:15,830 --> 00:53:18,620 So these are even patterns. 850 00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:20,890 But if you notice, the song is actually 851 00:53:20,890 --> 00:53:25,840 starting-- it's like a take off after 9 out of 12. 852 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,530 That's where this is-- one two three four one two three 853 00:53:30,530 --> 00:53:32,347 four five-- [SINGS]. 854 00:53:32,347 --> 00:53:33,930 So that's where the take off point is. 855 00:53:33,930 --> 00:53:36,346 So each time you ought to be landing kind of clear on that 856 00:53:36,346 --> 00:53:37,670 particular after 9. 857 00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:41,680 Whatever improvisation we do, it's like flying an aircraft. 858 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,380 You can go all over the place, but unless you land properly, 859 00:53:44,380 --> 00:53:47,380 it's going to be, you know, an accident. 860 00:53:47,380 --> 00:53:49,930 So you ought to really learn how to land correctly 861 00:53:49,930 --> 00:53:54,450 on the song in music in this improvisation. 862 00:53:54,450 --> 00:53:58,300 So some of these landing points could be pretty intricate. 863 00:53:58,300 --> 00:53:59,924 And then with the intricate points, 864 00:53:59,924 --> 00:54:02,090 you can really build a lot of beautiful, interesting 865 00:54:02,090 --> 00:54:04,250 mathematical patterns which can be a lot of fun 866 00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:07,890 for the artists themselves and for the listeners as well. 867 00:54:07,890 --> 00:54:10,730 Then I'll just demonstrate some small other patterns. 868 00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:14,740 [SINGS] 869 00:54:21,470 --> 00:54:24,390 So this is like five plus seven plus nine-- 870 00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:26,960 kind of an ascending pattern. 871 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:27,810 [SINGS] 872 00:54:38,500 --> 00:54:40,120 So again, it's like, the reverse. 873 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,460 Like nine, seven, five, kind of thing. 874 00:54:42,460 --> 00:54:44,090 So you can have a lot of things. 875 00:54:44,090 --> 00:54:47,820 But everything I'm doing still within this kind of framework 876 00:54:47,820 --> 00:54:51,590 of only four per beat happening right now. 877 00:54:51,590 --> 00:54:55,300 Sometimes if the composition starts on the beat, 878 00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:59,090 then you can even change over from four. 879 00:54:59,090 --> 00:55:02,120 You can have fives, or threes, or sevens, or nines, 880 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,740 or so many other kinds of pulse rate can be changed. 881 00:55:05,740 --> 00:55:07,220 For example, if the same song were 882 00:55:07,220 --> 00:55:10,370 to be starting in a different point on the beat-- 883 00:55:10,370 --> 00:55:11,750 [SINGS] 884 00:55:23,630 --> 00:55:26,510 That means you're having five per beat there. 885 00:55:26,510 --> 00:55:28,956 And then-- one two three four five one two three four 886 00:55:28,956 --> 00:55:31,622 five one two three four five one two three one two three one two 887 00:55:31,622 --> 00:55:33,914 three one two three one two three one two three one two 888 00:55:33,914 --> 00:55:35,955 three four one two three four one two three four. 889 00:55:35,955 --> 00:55:37,540 The tempo has to be still constant, 890 00:55:37,540 --> 00:55:39,600 but within that, you keep changing the thing. 891 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,506 So in Carnatic music, one of the key things 892 00:55:42,506 --> 00:55:44,130 which is distinct from Hindustani music 893 00:55:44,130 --> 00:55:48,570 is, in Hindustani music it's legal to accelerate 894 00:55:48,570 --> 00:55:50,440 doing the course of the competition. 895 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,540 So you start and then the composition 896 00:55:52,540 --> 00:55:55,220 itself can be accelerated en masse. 897 00:55:55,220 --> 00:55:58,250 But in Carnatic you'd still need to maintain the basic tempo. 898 00:55:58,250 --> 00:56:00,750 But within that, you can change the pulse rate 899 00:56:00,750 --> 00:56:03,880 and you can show different kind of speeds. 900 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,960 So I think I've covered most of the basic things 901 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:08,780 in this short time. 902 00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:12,360 So if you have any questions, please feel free to. 903 00:56:15,735 --> 00:56:16,235 Yes. 904 00:56:16,235 --> 00:56:18,500 AUDIENCE: Is that the standard way of playing it? 905 00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,290 So you always pluck with these two fingers and mute with-- 906 00:56:21,290 --> 00:56:23,050 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: No, I pluck with these two, actually. 907 00:56:23,050 --> 00:56:24,450 The first and the second finger. 908 00:56:24,450 --> 00:56:27,390 And this I use sometimes to damp. 909 00:56:27,390 --> 00:56:30,120 So a note-- [PLAYS NOTE] So I can, 910 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,393 if I want more staccato kind of thing. [PLAYS STACCATO] 911 00:56:34,393 --> 00:56:35,860 AUDIENCE: Can you use your thumb? 912 00:56:35,860 --> 00:56:38,840 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: Thumb is generally not so much played 913 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,517 in actual things. 914 00:56:40,517 --> 00:56:42,600 I use the little finger for strumming these drone, 915 00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,730 or rhythm, strings. 916 00:56:44,730 --> 00:56:48,280 Sometimes a thumb is-- actually found thumb really should not 917 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:52,210 be, if your technique is good, you don't really use the thumb. 918 00:56:52,210 --> 00:56:56,550 In the left hand, I use it to grip with these three fingers. 919 00:56:56,550 --> 00:56:59,480 And then these two are used to dampen 920 00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,426 any unnecessary vibration from the other side. 921 00:57:02,426 --> 00:57:04,378 [PLAYS] 922 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:15,420 So this finger is a very integral part 923 00:57:15,420 --> 00:57:17,350 of good slide technique, in my opinion. 924 00:57:17,350 --> 00:57:20,210 Because if you don't use this, you'll 925 00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:23,660 end up always hearing a sort of monotonous 926 00:57:23,660 --> 00:57:26,080 sliding kind of quality to it. 927 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:31,200 [PLAYS] Kind of thing. 928 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,540 So if you want a very gripping kind of music, 929 00:57:33,540 --> 00:57:36,310 sometimes this is a very useful to employ. 930 00:57:40,247 --> 00:57:42,080 AUDIENCE: Is there any underlying difference 931 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,010 between the way ragas are described 932 00:57:44,010 --> 00:57:46,505 in Hindustani versus Carnatic music? 933 00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:48,130 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: Well, the concept 934 00:57:48,130 --> 00:57:51,710 of the raga structure as an entity 935 00:57:51,710 --> 00:57:56,920 is the same for both, in the sense that both of them 936 00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,630 have the same kind of approach that it's 937 00:58:00,630 --> 00:58:04,260 like a melodic formula of ascending and descending notes 938 00:58:04,260 --> 00:58:07,530 in a particular sequence and pattern. 939 00:58:07,530 --> 00:58:11,300 And even a small change to the sequence, an addition 940 00:58:11,300 --> 00:58:15,420 or edition can make it a different raga. 941 00:58:15,420 --> 00:58:18,150 And that's actually the million dollar question, 942 00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:24,300 because in the West, when we think of a major scale, 943 00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:26,937 we may think of a lot of variations 944 00:58:26,937 --> 00:58:28,520 within that particular sequence, it'll 945 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:29,890 still be within the scale. 946 00:58:29,890 --> 00:58:31,750 It will still be major scale. 947 00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:36,230 But in Indian music, because it's all melodic development, 948 00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:38,280 you don't just think of it as one scale. 949 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:39,860 Even a small change in the sequence 950 00:58:39,860 --> 00:58:42,705 make it a different raga. 951 00:58:42,705 --> 00:58:46,140 People actually have asked me about this. 952 00:58:46,140 --> 00:58:48,360 A lot of my Western contemporary musicians 953 00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,230 have come and asked me, what is the whole rationale 954 00:58:51,230 --> 00:58:54,180 of just changing one note and calling it a different raga, 955 00:58:54,180 --> 00:58:56,605 or altering the sequence minutely, 956 00:58:56,605 --> 00:58:59,140 and how does it change the whole thing? 957 00:58:59,140 --> 00:59:02,960 The analogy I can give there, it's 958 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:08,000 like a different shade of the same color. 959 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,210 If you look at an Adobe Photoshop or something, 960 00:59:10,210 --> 00:59:14,640 you just have so many shades, like a million shades of green. 961 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,400 So the similar way, you can have so many different shades 962 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:18,460 of the major scale. 963 00:59:18,460 --> 00:59:22,660 So even altering a note here, if you're a capable musician who 964 00:59:22,660 --> 00:59:25,385 is well-versed in melodic development, 965 00:59:25,385 --> 00:59:27,510 then you can really create so many different shades 966 00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:30,790 of the same thing just with a small tweak in the sequence. 967 00:59:30,790 --> 00:59:33,270 And so that no two sequences will be similar, 968 00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:37,890 if you are to explore it like that, and take it on that path. 969 00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:41,100 And I'll just give you an example, small example, 970 00:59:41,100 --> 00:59:43,172 but a fairly extreme one. 971 00:59:43,172 --> 00:59:45,290 [PLAYS SCALE] 972 00:59:49,140 --> 00:59:51,380 Basic major scale. 973 00:59:51,380 --> 00:59:54,055 Now-- 974 00:59:54,055 --> 00:59:56,240 [PLAYS] 975 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,210 So here, I only changed the sequence. 976 01:00:03,210 --> 01:00:06,460 You still have all the notes in both ascent and descent. 977 01:00:06,460 --> 01:00:08,350 [PLAYS] 978 01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:23,120 So it creates a totally different kind 979 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,100 of signature tune to this particular raga. 980 01:00:26,100 --> 01:00:28,185 [PLAYS] 981 01:00:42,060 --> 01:00:44,560 So that's a totally different shade of the same major scale. 982 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,620 It can be a very bouncy kind of cheer. 983 01:00:48,620 --> 01:00:51,720 It can be a very contained kind of cheer, happiness. 984 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,540 It can be an exciting kind of happiness. 985 01:00:54,540 --> 01:00:56,830 It can be so many different kinds of moods 986 01:00:56,830 --> 01:00:59,700 that you will be able to create with a change in sequence. 987 01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:02,110 And that is one part of the raga structure. 988 01:01:02,110 --> 01:01:06,550 The other thing that makes a raga distinct from just a scale 989 01:01:06,550 --> 01:01:09,290 or a sequence formula is the kind 990 01:01:09,290 --> 01:01:11,620 of oscillations and the ornamentation 991 01:01:11,620 --> 01:01:15,550 that are in-built, or embedded within the raga. 992 01:01:15,550 --> 01:01:17,930 So in Hindustani music, your typical oscillations 993 01:01:17,930 --> 01:01:21,582 like the glide, the mint, as they call it. 994 01:01:21,582 --> 01:01:23,040 In Carnatic, you have what is known 995 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,180 as the oscillation of a note. 996 01:01:25,180 --> 01:01:28,010 And this oscillation is quite distinct from a vibrato 997 01:01:28,010 --> 01:01:30,510 or a tremolo or something like that, 998 01:01:30,510 --> 01:01:35,710 because sometimes it can be much wider amplitude. 999 01:01:35,710 --> 01:01:37,180 Now, the major scale, so I'll just 1000 01:01:37,180 --> 01:01:41,200 show how the second, fourth, and sixth notes are oscillated. 1001 01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,182 [PLAYS] 1002 01:01:56,090 --> 01:01:59,110 So the second is oscillated between the second 1003 01:01:59,110 --> 01:01:59,820 and the third. 1004 01:01:59,820 --> 01:02:03,590 [SINGS] 1005 01:02:03,590 --> 01:02:06,520 [PLAYS] 1006 01:02:24,148 --> 01:02:26,390 Even the sixth is oscillated like that. 1007 01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:29,150 And if you notice, the seventh is 1008 01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:34,620 given a force which propels it almost to the next note. 1009 01:02:34,620 --> 01:02:42,940 [PLAYS] So it's almost on the higher tonic note itself. 1010 01:02:42,940 --> 01:02:45,510 You don't play the seventh flat in this particular raga. 1011 01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:47,870 [PLAYS] 1012 01:02:47,870 --> 01:02:51,272 You rarely play that seventh in a pure manner in Carnatic. 1013 01:02:51,272 --> 01:02:53,230 You play the third in a pure manner many times, 1014 01:02:53,230 --> 01:02:55,030 you just have the natural third. 1015 01:02:55,030 --> 01:02:57,550 But very rarely the seventh will be played just 1016 01:02:57,550 --> 01:02:58,730 naturally as such. 1017 01:02:58,730 --> 01:03:01,340 It'll be generally pushed almost with a force. 1018 01:03:01,340 --> 01:03:05,100 So the ornamentation is a combination of grace and force 1019 01:03:05,100 --> 01:03:06,530 in almost every system of music. 1020 01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:09,390 It can either be grace or force. 1021 01:03:09,390 --> 01:03:12,560 So the typical ornamentation gives each raga 1022 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,530 a different kind of flavor. 1023 01:03:15,530 --> 01:03:16,200 Yes, sir. 1024 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,075 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1025 01:03:23,655 --> 01:03:26,740 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: No, see, the technical term 1026 01:03:26,740 --> 01:03:30,830 in Indian term, Indian parlance, is either nadai or gati. 1027 01:03:30,830 --> 01:03:31,960 Gati is Sanskrit. 1028 01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,150 So it's like, one two three four, one two three four 1029 01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:35,200 is Chatusram. 1030 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,110 Tha ka dhi mi, tha ka dhi mi tha ka dhi mi. 1031 01:03:37,110 --> 01:03:40,380 All of these have technical syllables and all of that. 1032 01:03:40,380 --> 01:03:42,235 I'm just trying to demystify most of this 1033 01:03:42,235 --> 01:03:44,930 for you right now using more simple terms. 1034 01:03:44,930 --> 01:03:47,460 Tha ka dhi mi, tha ka dhi mi, tha ka dhi mi, tha ka dhi mi. 1035 01:03:47,460 --> 01:03:49,912 Tha ki ta, tha ki ta, tha ki ta, tha ki ta. 1036 01:03:49,912 --> 01:03:52,120 Tha ka tha ki ta, tha ka tha ki ta, tha ka tha ki ta, 1037 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:52,670 tha ka tha ki ta. 1038 01:03:52,670 --> 01:03:54,360 Tha ka dhi mi tha ki ta, tha ka dhi mi tha ki ta, tha ka dhi mi 1039 01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,300 tha ki ta, tha ka dhi mi tha ki ta. 1040 01:03:55,300 --> 01:03:56,586 Tha ka dhi mi tha ka tha ki ta, tha ka dhi mi tha ka tha ki ta, 1041 01:03:56,586 --> 01:03:58,550 Tha ka dhi mi tha ka tha ki ta. 1042 01:03:58,550 --> 01:04:02,770 So all this is like four, three, seven, five and nine, 1043 01:04:02,770 --> 01:04:06,210 known as Chaturasram, Thisram, Misram, Khandam, Sankeernam. 1044 01:04:06,210 --> 01:04:09,760 These are the different kind of pulse rates which are possible. 1045 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,670 These are the traditional pulse rates 1046 01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:13,790 that are generally used in Indian music. 1047 01:04:13,790 --> 01:04:15,610 Now, you can also use, of course, 1048 01:04:15,610 --> 01:04:19,080 people are using 11, 13, and other kinds of pulse rates 1049 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,997 also in certain compositions. 1050 01:04:20,997 --> 01:04:22,372 AUDIENCE: That's a gati or nadai. 1051 01:04:22,372 --> 01:04:24,247 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: That's a gati or nadai. 1052 01:04:24,247 --> 01:04:25,637 In Sanskrit, gati means nadai. 1053 01:04:29,460 --> 01:04:30,590 Yes. 1054 01:04:30,590 --> 01:04:32,763 AUDIENCE: When you're improvising outside 1055 01:04:32,763 --> 01:04:36,312 of the Carnatic tradition, such as a song like you 1056 01:04:36,312 --> 01:04:39,335 did yesterday, "Lonely Woman," how 1057 01:04:39,335 --> 01:04:40,980 do you make your note choices? 1058 01:04:40,980 --> 01:04:44,734 What sort of thought process is involved in that? 1059 01:04:44,734 --> 01:04:48,590 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: Well, when I play with musicians 1060 01:04:48,590 --> 01:04:51,230 from other cultures, from diverse cultures, 1061 01:04:51,230 --> 01:04:55,300 my natural inclination would be to see 1062 01:04:55,300 --> 01:04:59,990 if it is like fitting into any kind of particular sequence 1063 01:04:59,990 --> 01:05:02,380 pattern, or what kind of sequence dominates. 1064 01:05:02,380 --> 01:05:05,890 So I'll almost think of it like another raga. 1065 01:05:05,890 --> 01:05:09,107 But many times, I'll identify one particular sequence. 1066 01:05:09,107 --> 01:05:11,440 Then I'll also know what notes are outside the sequence, 1067 01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,520 so I'll have a fair idea of how the melody is. 1068 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,809 So that way, I think Carnatic music-- 1069 01:05:17,809 --> 01:05:19,350 I mean this as an objective statement 1070 01:05:19,350 --> 01:05:20,976 not because I come from the tradition-- 1071 01:05:20,976 --> 01:05:22,891 but having collaborated with a lot of artists, 1072 01:05:22,891 --> 01:05:24,410 I think that Carnatic is probably 1073 01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:27,030 the most complete melodic system. 1074 01:05:27,030 --> 01:05:29,850 So the kind of grounding that you get melodically 1075 01:05:29,850 --> 01:05:34,341 when you learn this system makes you versatile 1076 01:05:34,341 --> 01:05:36,340 enough to collaborate with almost any other kind 1077 01:05:36,340 --> 01:05:39,822 of culture most of the time. 1078 01:05:39,822 --> 01:05:41,780 When I say Carnatic in this particular context, 1079 01:05:41,780 --> 01:05:43,920 it includes the North Indian also. 1080 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,705 The raga system of music is very melodically complete. 1081 01:05:49,610 --> 01:05:51,990 But now, when we played "Lonely Woman," 1082 01:05:51,990 --> 01:05:55,570 we had almost free style kind of approach to it yesterday. 1083 01:05:55,570 --> 01:05:59,490 So that one was more easy to do. 1084 01:05:59,490 --> 01:06:03,060 But the other composition, the [? domba ?] [INAUDIBLE]. 1085 01:06:03,060 --> 01:06:05,320 There, at least, there are certain notes 1086 01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,932 which is more like one of the pentatonics. 1087 01:06:08,932 --> 01:06:14,860 [PLAYS SCALE] Or [PLAYS SCALE] kind of thing, so there. 1088 01:06:14,860 --> 01:06:18,800 So it was not difficult [INAUDIBLE]. 1089 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:19,728 Yes. 1090 01:06:19,728 --> 01:06:21,269 AUDIENCE: Could you talk a little bit 1091 01:06:21,269 --> 01:06:26,382 about the role of dance with Carnatic music. 1092 01:06:26,382 --> 01:06:28,340 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: See, I personally believe 1093 01:06:28,340 --> 01:06:34,230 that, until almost 1700, dance and music were pretty much 1094 01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:37,010 close in the south of India. 1095 01:06:37,010 --> 01:06:40,740 But then by 1700s, or rather, the later part 1096 01:06:40,740 --> 01:06:46,280 of 1700s, pure music forms started 1097 01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,660 getting more distinctive. 1098 01:06:48,660 --> 01:06:50,810 And started diverging from dance. 1099 01:06:50,810 --> 01:06:55,470 So today the dance repertoire and music repertoire 1100 01:06:55,470 --> 01:07:00,240 are pretty distinctive, with a couple of overlaps like padams 1101 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,010 or tillanas and javalis and so forth happening. 1102 01:07:03,010 --> 01:07:08,020 But there is very, very much of a divergence today. 1103 01:07:08,020 --> 01:07:10,480 That's why, if you actually look at some composers 1104 01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:16,220 before Tyagaraja and others who were more in the mid-1700s, 1105 01:07:16,220 --> 01:07:20,380 people like Oottukkadu Venkata Kavi, a lot of his compositions 1106 01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:26,280 would be very, very extrapolatable to dance also, 1107 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,920 because he was much closer to that period 1108 01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,990 when dance, drama-- I mean theater-- and music 1109 01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:36,060 were pretty much integrated, actually, almost. 1110 01:07:39,505 --> 01:07:41,505 AUDIENCE: This is more a philosophical question. 1111 01:07:41,505 --> 01:07:42,990 When you're a musician and you're 1112 01:07:42,990 --> 01:07:47,210 practicing ragas and compositions, to what degree 1113 01:07:47,210 --> 01:07:50,800 can you, maybe over the course of your career, 1114 01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,046 over rehearse to the point where the improvisation sounds 1115 01:07:54,046 --> 01:07:57,970 rehearsed rather than having that momentary brilliance 1116 01:07:57,970 --> 01:08:00,560 that is the beauty of Carnatic music. 1117 01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:04,140 Do you see that as a problem making Carnatic music? 1118 01:08:04,140 --> 01:08:08,508 That sometimes it's improvisational, 1119 01:08:08,508 --> 01:08:11,895 but it's over-rehearsed and not spur of the moment? 1120 01:08:11,895 --> 01:08:13,270 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: I would say 1121 01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:15,970 that that's not a problem only with any one 1122 01:08:15,970 --> 01:08:17,170 particular system of music. 1123 01:08:17,170 --> 01:08:19,364 I think in any system of music, you 1124 01:08:19,364 --> 01:08:23,410 have to have a fine balance between the necessary amount 1125 01:08:23,410 --> 01:08:26,270 of practice for command and control, 1126 01:08:26,270 --> 01:08:33,250 but not to compromise your personal enjoyment 1127 01:08:33,250 --> 01:08:35,520 or the spontaneity and the freshness 1128 01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,689 of the thing-- for yourself, first. 1129 01:08:37,689 --> 01:08:39,859 So even in, say, piano or something, 1130 01:08:39,859 --> 01:08:43,310 if you really keep practicing mechanically just the fingers, 1131 01:08:43,310 --> 01:08:46,255 only develop muscle memory, then only your muscles 1132 01:08:46,255 --> 01:08:48,479 will be playing the music, not your mind. 1133 01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,700 So the passion has to still be kept up. 1134 01:08:52,700 --> 01:08:56,990 And that's a very difficult thing. 1135 01:08:56,990 --> 01:09:00,189 Unless you, yourself, figure it out, 1136 01:09:00,189 --> 01:09:02,899 it's very difficult to have a formula for that, 1137 01:09:02,899 --> 01:09:04,689 like a common formula. 1138 01:09:04,689 --> 01:09:08,920 So each artist has to-- I mean, when I play, 1139 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,770 if I practice for about five, six hours, or seven hours 1140 01:09:11,770 --> 01:09:14,010 continuously at a stretch, the moment 1141 01:09:14,010 --> 01:09:17,760 I start finding things too effortless, I stop. 1142 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:23,090 So there has to be just that 5%, 10% of effort still happening 1143 01:09:23,090 --> 01:09:26,550 for you to really be in it. 1144 01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:28,050 If it starts getting too effortless, 1145 01:09:28,050 --> 01:09:29,850 it's almost mechanical. 1146 01:09:29,850 --> 01:09:31,735 Then you are not even there. 1147 01:09:31,735 --> 01:09:33,859 There has to be a certain amount of effortlessness, 1148 01:09:33,859 --> 01:09:39,029 but probably about 90% effortlessness and 10% effort 1149 01:09:39,029 --> 01:09:39,529 balance. 1150 01:09:43,268 --> 01:09:46,232 AUDIENCE: Going back to the response 1151 01:09:46,232 --> 01:09:49,340 you had about collaboration, is it 1152 01:09:49,340 --> 01:09:53,110 at all disorienting that Carnatic verses you 1153 01:09:53,110 --> 01:09:55,230 so well in melodic structure is it 1154 01:09:55,230 --> 01:09:58,680 disorienting when that melodic structure is not 1155 01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,620 there, not the point, and in fact the source of structure 1156 01:10:01,620 --> 01:10:05,474 is harmonic or something else? 1157 01:10:05,474 --> 01:10:07,140 I'm kind of curious about your statement 1158 01:10:07,140 --> 01:10:08,725 that it trains you well, because I've 1159 01:10:08,725 --> 01:10:11,054 seen where disorientation between-- 1160 01:10:11,054 --> 01:10:12,470 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: No, see, you 1161 01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:14,740 have to really understand two things here. 1162 01:10:14,740 --> 01:10:18,960 The melodic approach in the harmonic approach are distinct 1163 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:20,970 and they have their own rationale. 1164 01:10:20,970 --> 01:10:23,670 each one has its own evolution which 1165 01:10:23,670 --> 01:10:25,710 has been over a period of time based 1166 01:10:25,710 --> 01:10:28,160 on aesthetics-- general aesthetics, 1167 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:30,980 individual aesthetics common aesthetics, 1168 01:10:30,980 --> 01:10:33,890 national, regional, cultural, all kinds of aesthetics 1169 01:10:33,890 --> 01:10:34,530 come into play. 1170 01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:41,130 The melodic combinations, from my experience, 1171 01:10:41,130 --> 01:10:47,290 I have seen that almost any combination of notes played 1172 01:10:47,290 --> 01:10:50,900 or heard successively can be made to work, 1173 01:10:50,900 --> 01:10:52,730 over a period of time. 1174 01:10:52,730 --> 01:10:56,250 But when you start playing simultaneous notes, which 1175 01:10:56,250 --> 01:10:59,510 is more harmony, when you start getting 1176 01:10:59,510 --> 01:11:02,074 into polyphonic, vertical arrangement of notes, 1177 01:11:02,074 --> 01:11:03,490 there are sudden combinations only 1178 01:11:03,490 --> 01:11:06,240 which can work better than other combinations. 1179 01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,870 And even that is, you know, so many experiments 1180 01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:10,250 keep happening all the time. 1181 01:11:10,250 --> 01:11:14,970 You will take this conventional combinations of the three note 1182 01:11:14,970 --> 01:11:17,720 chords and then you start doing so many other kinds of things. 1183 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,400 But again, it takes time for the ears 1184 01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:22,970 to start getting adjusted to that. 1185 01:11:22,970 --> 01:11:25,980 Now, similarly, when you start listening to harmony 1186 01:11:25,980 --> 01:11:32,100 with a melodic ear, so to speak, or melody with a harmonic ear, 1187 01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:34,870 then you'll start finding things which are disorienting 1188 01:11:34,870 --> 01:11:37,340 or which are not resolved. 1189 01:11:37,340 --> 01:11:41,140 And that's where my whole concept of melharmony came in. 1190 01:11:41,140 --> 01:11:43,400 That was the rationale when I started melharmony. 1191 01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,710 Actually you guys can do a wiki search 1192 01:11:45,710 --> 01:11:50,050 on melharmony, which is a concept I started in 2000. 1193 01:11:50,050 --> 01:11:51,590 My whole rationale was that people 1194 01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:59,400 were hearing music with their culture and their type of ears. 1195 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:00,980 And then they would actually find-- 1196 01:12:00,980 --> 01:12:02,490 so suppose somebody from the West 1197 01:12:02,490 --> 01:12:04,300 was hearing a melodic concept. 1198 01:12:04,300 --> 01:12:06,525 He may find it pretty uni-dimensional with only one 1199 01:12:06,525 --> 01:12:08,650 or two melodies happening at the same time with not 1200 01:12:08,650 --> 01:12:10,620 much of a vertical dimension. 1201 01:12:10,620 --> 01:12:13,850 And similarly, to a person who was hearing Western music 1202 01:12:13,850 --> 01:12:16,582 with a raga in mind, there'll be so many notes 1203 01:12:16,582 --> 01:12:18,540 which are going out of that particular sequence 1204 01:12:18,540 --> 01:12:20,630 or out of the scale. 1205 01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:22,320 But that will still be rationally 1206 01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,010 applicable for that particular culture. 1207 01:12:25,010 --> 01:12:27,100 So what I started doing is try to create 1208 01:12:27,100 --> 01:12:30,670 this system of harmony with an emphasis on melodic rules. 1209 01:12:30,670 --> 01:12:32,570 That's what melharmony is. 1210 01:12:32,570 --> 01:12:40,300 So that's where I tried to start reconciling that difference, 1211 01:12:40,300 --> 01:12:43,020 to create that bridge between these two oceans. 1212 01:12:43,020 --> 01:12:44,460 But it's a very serious concept. 1213 01:12:44,460 --> 01:12:47,010 So melharmony has its own separate rules 1214 01:12:47,010 --> 01:12:53,130 for harmony itself-- very, very rationally explainable, 1215 01:12:53,130 --> 01:12:55,590 applicable rules. 1216 01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:58,160 And so I've been collaborating with different orchestras, 1217 01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:02,590 like, say, BBC, or Sacramento Symphony, and different kinds 1218 01:13:02,590 --> 01:13:04,700 of orchestras, or with jazz groups. 1219 01:13:04,700 --> 01:13:07,309 So some of these compositions that I play are melharmonic. 1220 01:13:07,309 --> 01:13:09,100 So there is that element of vertical thing, 1221 01:13:09,100 --> 01:13:14,110 but with the emphasis on structured rules of 1222 01:13:14,110 --> 01:13:15,970 [INAUDIBLE]. 1223 01:13:15,970 --> 01:13:17,970 In fact, the Society for Music Theory conference 1224 01:13:17,970 --> 01:13:21,070 in Boston in 2005-- maybe, I don't 1225 01:13:21,070 --> 01:13:24,700 know whether you were there in that-- Robert Morris, the Chair 1226 01:13:24,700 --> 01:13:26,550 of composing from Eastman School of Music, 1227 01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:27,883 presented a paper on melharmony. 1228 01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,645 So it's a very interesting topic and subject. 1229 01:13:38,020 --> 01:13:39,686 PROFESSOR: I think we'll leave it there. 1230 01:13:39,686 --> 01:13:41,828 Let's give a big round of applause for Ravikiran. 1231 01:13:41,828 --> 01:13:43,804 [APPLAUSE] 1232 01:13:43,804 --> 01:13:45,780 And for Phil Scarff. 1233 01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:50,720 Thank you all very much. 1234 01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,270 CHITRAVINA RAVIKIRAN: Pleasure.