1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:01,670 The following content is provided 2 00:00:01,670 --> 00:00:03,820 under a Creative Commons license. 3 00:00:03,820 --> 00:00:06,540 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue 4 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:10,120 to offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:12,700 To make a donation or to view additional materials 6 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:16,426 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:16,426 --> 00:00:17,200 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:20,707 --> 00:00:22,290 TIM RAY: I guess first of all I wanted 9 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:25,920 to entertain any questions you might've had about the concert. 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,368 I know Mark is having you write up some reports. 11 00:00:30,368 --> 00:00:33,000 Actually I got an advanced copy of one person's report 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,190 that had some really interesting comments. 13 00:00:35,190 --> 00:00:38,660 One of the comments that this person wrote 14 00:00:38,660 --> 00:00:43,360 was about hearing-- trying to listen 15 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,470 for the difference between the improvised sections 16 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:48,690 and the written sections. 17 00:00:48,690 --> 00:00:50,230 What was your feeling on that? 18 00:00:50,230 --> 00:00:52,460 Did you feel like you had a pretty good sense of when 19 00:00:52,460 --> 00:00:54,918 we were improvising and when we were playing written music? 20 00:00:54,918 --> 00:00:59,830 Was it a little hard to tell sometimes, right? 21 00:00:59,830 --> 00:01:02,990 I actually tell-- we hear that comment a lot, actually. 22 00:01:02,990 --> 00:01:05,200 Including from symphony players. 23 00:01:08,430 --> 00:01:11,254 It might have been hard for you to tell, don't think that means 24 00:01:11,254 --> 00:01:12,218 anything negative. 25 00:01:12,218 --> 00:01:15,110 Like I say, a lot of musicians come up to us afterwards 26 00:01:15,110 --> 00:01:17,235 and they go, I don't know what you guys were doing, 27 00:01:17,235 --> 00:01:19,570 or how you were blending the composition 28 00:01:19,570 --> 00:01:20,860 and the improvisation. 29 00:01:20,860 --> 00:01:26,330 And that's, to me, is sort of an affirmation of one 30 00:01:26,330 --> 00:01:29,485 of my goals for this group, is to blend composition 31 00:01:29,485 --> 00:01:32,920 and improvisation in kind of a seamless way. 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,460 I mean, it's obviously not seamless, 33 00:01:34,460 --> 00:01:39,260 but to make that-- make those lines blurry. 34 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:42,470 And I think a lot of composers of modern music-- 35 00:01:42,470 --> 00:01:45,490 I know Mark Harvey's compositions do somewhat 36 00:01:45,490 --> 00:01:47,980 the same thing, as well as of course Greg's. 37 00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:50,450 And a lot of people I know sometimes 38 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:55,070 look for that kind of blurry line between composition 39 00:01:55,070 --> 00:01:55,770 improvisation. 40 00:01:55,770 --> 00:01:57,686 Because it's really all the same thing, right? 41 00:01:57,686 --> 00:01:59,600 It's just composition, you write it down. 42 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,940 Improvisation is spontaneous, but still it's 43 00:02:01,940 --> 00:02:03,940 all kind of the same thing. 44 00:02:03,940 --> 00:02:08,039 The piece that you transcribed from an improvisation, 45 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:10,139 did you play that-- were you playing it 46 00:02:10,139 --> 00:02:12,520 exactly how it sounded originally? 47 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,550 Or did you kind of reinterpret it? 48 00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:18,838 Because it sounded like a real piece. 49 00:02:18,838 --> 00:02:21,210 [LAUGHTER] 50 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:22,150 Yeah, that's-- 51 00:02:22,150 --> 00:02:23,450 GREG HOPKINS: (LAUGHING) What do you mean by that? 52 00:02:23,450 --> 00:02:24,470 TIM RAY: Yeah, right. 53 00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:25,080 GREG HOPKINS: I know what you mean. 54 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,288 I know exactly what you mean. 55 00:02:26,288 --> 00:02:28,530 TIM RAY: Sounded like real music, not improvisation. 56 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:31,190 No, I'm teasing. 57 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:32,380 No, that's a good question. 58 00:02:32,380 --> 00:02:34,810 That's another one people ask a lot. 59 00:02:34,810 --> 00:02:36,885 Yeah, that was, again, that was sort of Eugene's. 60 00:02:39,530 --> 00:02:41,240 That was something that he had improvised 61 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,030 with a different piano player years ago in this cathedral. 62 00:02:44,030 --> 00:02:46,060 Now he talked about it a little bit, I know. 63 00:02:46,060 --> 00:02:48,601 GREG HOPKINS: Oh, you're talking about the piano-cello piece. 64 00:02:48,601 --> 00:02:50,850 TIM RAY: Yeah, the piano-cello piece, right. 65 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:53,227 And as he said, they wrote it out. 66 00:02:53,227 --> 00:02:54,310 I mean, they wrote it out. 67 00:02:54,310 --> 00:02:56,650 Eugene kind of just memorized his cello part. 68 00:02:56,650 --> 00:03:00,150 And his part was pretty much as played, 69 00:03:00,150 --> 00:03:04,620 as improvised back however many years ago that was. 70 00:03:04,620 --> 00:03:07,690 And then the piano part, they wrote it out and of course, 71 00:03:07,690 --> 00:03:11,350 being a jazz player I changed it. 72 00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:14,780 So I mean I basically followed the intent of it, 73 00:03:14,780 --> 00:03:18,440 you know, and I played something specific to what 74 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,640 was played back then, as according to the music. 75 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:25,050 But then I did some other-- I changed it up a little bit. 76 00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:26,570 Made it a little bit more-- gave it 77 00:03:26,570 --> 00:03:29,015 a little bit of a personal thing, a personal touch. 78 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:33,620 But yeah, that's one of the things. 79 00:03:33,620 --> 00:03:35,160 I know you weren't here last week 80 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,760 when we were doing the thing with diatonic improvisation, 81 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,882 but basically that's what that was. 82 00:03:39,882 --> 00:03:42,340 It was a whole thing about just improvising 83 00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:43,980 in the key of D major. 84 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:47,790 And Eugene and this guy, Paul Halley, 85 00:03:47,790 --> 00:03:51,082 was the pianist, basically did an amazing job of kind 86 00:03:51,082 --> 00:03:52,040 of creating this thing. 87 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,890 And as you said, it sounded like real music. 88 00:03:53,890 --> 00:03:56,223 It sounded like something that could have been composed. 89 00:03:56,223 --> 00:03:58,120 It had sections and melody in the cello, 90 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,810 melody in the piano, all kinds of variations 91 00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:02,790 and accompaniments. 92 00:04:02,790 --> 00:04:04,290 And like I said, that was just one 93 00:04:04,290 --> 00:04:06,660 of those things that kind of worked out really well 94 00:04:06,660 --> 00:04:09,580 improvisationally and happened to be recorded. 95 00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:15,636 And so that that's why it keeps getting played. 96 00:04:15,636 --> 00:04:18,010 But yeah, so I don't know if that answered your question, 97 00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:22,079 but that's kind of the genesis of that. 98 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,030 So, cool. 99 00:04:24,030 --> 00:04:25,040 And then Greg and I-- 100 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,560 GREG HOPKINS: He probably played the piece though, many times, 101 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:27,061 right? 102 00:04:27,061 --> 00:04:27,893 TIM RAY: Yeah, yeah. 103 00:04:27,893 --> 00:04:29,530 Eugene's played that piece many times. 104 00:04:29,530 --> 00:04:33,820 GREG HOPKINS: So it's not improvisation of the moment, 105 00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:37,250 it's a creation that he recreates many times over 106 00:04:37,250 --> 00:04:38,750 and over and over. 107 00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:43,600 So they kind of played it similar each time. 108 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:44,860 TIM RAY: Right, yeah. 109 00:04:44,860 --> 00:04:46,300 You know, and sometimes it's funny 110 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:49,960 because we, Greg and I and Mark, are kind of jazz-- you know, 111 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,500 what we might call hardcore jazz guys. 112 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:54,710 Who sort of believe in the sanctity 113 00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:56,170 of spontaneous improvisation. 114 00:04:56,170 --> 00:05:00,070 But actually, if you look back not that long ago in history 115 00:05:00,070 --> 00:05:01,370 that happened a lot. 116 00:05:01,370 --> 00:05:03,990 Duke Ellington spans a perfect example. 117 00:05:03,990 --> 00:05:05,830 Cootie Williams would take a trumpet solo 118 00:05:05,830 --> 00:05:08,707 and Duke would say, I like that, do that solo again. 119 00:05:08,707 --> 00:05:10,790 The next thing you know, that Cootie Williams solo 120 00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:12,310 becomes part of the book. 121 00:05:12,310 --> 00:05:15,200 What started off as an improvisation, or at least 122 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,460 largely as an improvisation, became part of the music. 123 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:21,331 So there's a little bit of history even in the jazz 124 00:05:21,331 --> 00:05:21,830 world-- 125 00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:23,455 GREG HOPKINS: Well, a lot of jazz music 126 00:05:23,455 --> 00:05:27,220 starts out as improvisation and becomes concrete. 127 00:05:27,220 --> 00:05:30,010 Like some of Charlie Parker's tunes. 128 00:05:30,010 --> 00:05:32,540 And he would play them the same each time. 129 00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:34,515 OK, this is the melody. 130 00:05:37,262 --> 00:05:39,220 And they're nothing but, really, improvisations 131 00:05:39,220 --> 00:05:44,064 that become part of history. 132 00:05:44,064 --> 00:05:44,730 TIM RAY: Indeed. 133 00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:52,110 And then, the duet that Greg and I 134 00:05:52,110 --> 00:05:56,069 did, I made a little comment at the beginning about I 135 00:05:56,069 --> 00:05:57,610 didn't know what was going to happen. 136 00:05:57,610 --> 00:05:59,670 And it's kind of true, I don't really 137 00:05:59,670 --> 00:06:00,890 know what's going to happen. 138 00:06:00,890 --> 00:06:04,224 That's one of those moments, which 139 00:06:04,224 --> 00:06:06,890 I like to do in our program, and Greg and I have done this a lot 140 00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:08,210 over the course of our-- 141 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:10,709 GREG HOPKINS: We never decide what tune we're going to play. 142 00:06:10,709 --> 00:06:12,460 TIM RAY: Yeah, well we don't decide it. 143 00:06:12,460 --> 00:06:15,330 I'm happy to have Greg start. 144 00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:18,130 And I don't know, did you-- when you started did you know-- 145 00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:19,460 GREG HOPKINS: I had no idea. 146 00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:21,150 TIM RAY: I had a feeling you were-- 147 00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:22,691 GREG HOPKINS: I was searching around, 148 00:06:22,691 --> 00:06:25,230 I was kind of doing a little prelude stuff. 149 00:06:25,230 --> 00:06:28,510 Saying, now what do I feel like I want to play here? 150 00:06:28,510 --> 00:06:30,960 Well, we just played something in sharp key so I said, 151 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,430 we're going to go into flats. 152 00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:38,630 Because I wanted to have a different taste. 153 00:06:38,630 --> 00:06:42,030 And A-flat came out, OK, well let's-- I know this tune. 154 00:06:42,030 --> 00:06:44,150 And, hey let's play rhythm changes in A-flat, 155 00:06:44,150 --> 00:06:46,360 and then we went into the Thelonious Monk 156 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,020 tune "Little Rootie Tootie". 157 00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:54,030 Which we-- I know that Tim knows and I know. 158 00:06:54,030 --> 00:06:58,590 So basically after a little fooling around, 159 00:06:58,590 --> 00:07:02,060 OK, let's do that, no problem. 160 00:07:02,060 --> 00:07:05,130 But we had fun with Monk's riffs, 161 00:07:05,130 --> 00:07:10,200 so then we really played the composition. 162 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,925 And as a composer, I think that's-- I really appreciate 163 00:07:13,925 --> 00:07:22,610 that, when an improviser or a soloist plays the composition. 164 00:07:22,610 --> 00:07:29,670 Because that's a strong way to approach a improvisation-- 165 00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:32,470 playing the musical composition instead of just playing 166 00:07:32,470 --> 00:07:33,980 your horn, your instrument. 167 00:07:33,980 --> 00:07:37,350 And playing a bunch of licks and making the changes is fine, 168 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:42,280 but what does it all mean related to Mr. Monk's music? 169 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,610 Because I put myself not as so much a soloist, 170 00:07:46,610 --> 00:07:48,480 it's not about me as much as it's 171 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,600 about how can I interpret his composition. 172 00:07:53,600 --> 00:08:02,880 So I'm more like the conduit instead of the focal point. 173 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,530 So we had a lot of fun with his riffs. 174 00:08:05,530 --> 00:08:06,890 TIM RAY: Yeah, we did. 175 00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:09,460 And that gets a little bit back to what we were talking about 176 00:08:09,460 --> 00:08:12,790 with the assignment, which is this tune 177 00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:14,583 of Greg's, [? "Karagassian". ?] 178 00:08:14,583 --> 00:08:16,254 GREG HOPKINS: Oh, you have that one? 179 00:08:16,254 --> 00:08:18,170 TIM RAY: Yeah, you guys all brought it, right? 180 00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:22,740 All right, so we're going to start playing in just a second. 181 00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:28,280 But the idea, being to-- obviously, get the foundation. 182 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,530 In other words, learn the melody, 183 00:08:30,530 --> 00:08:34,100 get comfortable with the minor blues progression-- which 184 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:36,539 is what the improvisation is based on-- if you're not 185 00:08:36,539 --> 00:08:40,080 already comfortable with that, and then use 186 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,200 some of the motifs in the melody to inform your improvisation. 187 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,330 Use to improvise in the motivic fashion, as much as you can. 188 00:08:49,330 --> 00:08:52,650 I mean, you don't-- obviously, no one-- well, 189 00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:54,120 I shouldn't say no one. 190 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,820 It would be rare to hear an improvisation created 191 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:59,450 completely out of motivic stuff, although I'm 192 00:08:59,450 --> 00:09:00,670 sure it's been done. 193 00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:02,770 GREG HOPKINS: Sure it is. 194 00:09:02,770 --> 00:09:04,820 TIM RAY: Some of my favorite improvisers do that. 195 00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:05,860 I mean they don't-- 196 00:09:05,860 --> 00:09:09,260 GREG HOPKINS: I'm always playing the melody up here. 197 00:09:09,260 --> 00:09:14,360 Even when I play a standard tune, I'm on the melody. 198 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,661 So then you're never at a loss for what to do. 199 00:09:19,661 --> 00:09:21,410 I don't really have to think of something. 200 00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:22,800 It's here. 201 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:23,856 Do something with that. 202 00:09:23,856 --> 00:09:24,980 TIM RAY: Yeah, that's true. 203 00:09:24,980 --> 00:09:26,896 GREG HOPKINS: But then what do you do with it? 204 00:09:26,896 --> 00:09:29,400 You have to know your compositional techniques. 205 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:34,260 Repetition, sequence, transposition, elongation, 206 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:39,910 augmentation, diminution, transformation, embellishment, 207 00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:41,492 all that stuff. 208 00:09:41,492 --> 00:09:42,852 TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely. 209 00:09:42,852 --> 00:09:44,310 GREG HOPKINS: And then sometimes we 210 00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:47,602 play stuff, little cannons back and forth. 211 00:09:47,602 --> 00:09:49,310 Question and answer, question and answer. 212 00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:54,470 TIM RAY: Yeah, cool. 213 00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:56,592 So, should we jump into this piece? 214 00:09:56,592 --> 00:09:57,300 What do we think? 215 00:09:57,300 --> 00:09:59,030 Yeah, we've got plenty of time. 216 00:09:59,030 --> 00:10:05,310 OK, so [? "Karagassian". ?] I know I suggested maybe we have 217 00:10:05,310 --> 00:10:08,250 you guys do some-- you know, pair up to do some 218 00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:10,220 improvisations. 219 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:13,860 But maybe just for rehearsal sake, 220 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:16,040 why don't we all play the melody. 221 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,574 And we'll see if we're on the same page. 222 00:10:19,574 --> 00:10:22,110 GREG HOPKINS: So, as you know this is written for my cat. 223 00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:25,910 My late cat [? Karagassian. ?] I wrote the piece probably 224 00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:27,660 in 15 minutes. 225 00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:30,170 It just came out. 226 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:31,970 Because the cat had so much spirit. 227 00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:33,250 And it's all here. 228 00:10:35,810 --> 00:10:37,310 You know cats, they're very playful. 229 00:10:37,310 --> 00:10:39,690 So this melody's very playful. 230 00:10:39,690 --> 00:10:45,786 It's meant to be had a lot of fun with. 231 00:10:45,786 --> 00:10:48,760 TIM RAY: Yes, indeed. 232 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,290 So yeah, so let's all play the melody. 233 00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:55,320 If you guys on guitar want to do some chord 234 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,825 changes in the three-four measure 235 00:10:58,825 --> 00:11:00,700 you can, or you can just stay with the melody 236 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:01,690 if you want to do that. 237 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,700 Let's just do that and see where we're at. 238 00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:10,170 And then we'll get into some improv. 239 00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:13,210 Do you want to count it off, Greg? 240 00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:15,325 GREG HOPKINS: One, two, a one, two, three. 241 00:11:15,325 --> 00:11:18,085 [MUSIC PLAYING] 242 00:11:48,225 --> 00:11:49,350 TIM RAY: That's a hard one. 243 00:11:49,350 --> 00:12:19,838 [MUSIC PLAYING] 244 00:12:19,838 --> 00:12:21,000 All right. 245 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:21,810 Not bad. 246 00:12:21,810 --> 00:12:22,620 GREG HOPKINS: Not bad at all. 247 00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:24,036 But the inflection is pretty good. 248 00:12:27,150 --> 00:12:30,140 Yeah, it's really soft and distant. 249 00:12:30,140 --> 00:12:33,607 And then in the third measure we can clobber that note. 250 00:12:33,607 --> 00:12:35,440 Actually, play a different note than E-flat. 251 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,800 That's like a crash. 252 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,060 One more time. 253 00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:49,090 A one, two, a one, two. 254 00:12:49,090 --> 00:12:49,940 Yeah, but softer. 255 00:12:49,940 --> 00:12:50,490 Much softer. 256 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:51,430 Just touch it. 257 00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:55,310 One, two, a one, two. 258 00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:56,260 That's it. 259 00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:58,380 One, two. 260 00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:00,194 Loud. 261 00:13:00,194 --> 00:13:00,860 Two, three,four. 262 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:07,780 One, two. 263 00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:15,270 So I always put a doit on that. 264 00:13:15,270 --> 00:13:16,270 You know what a doit is? 265 00:13:16,270 --> 00:13:17,500 Where you fall up? 266 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:22,190 It's a fall up instead of a fall down. 267 00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:24,990 TIM RAY: Yeah, it's always hard on a piano, right? 268 00:13:24,990 --> 00:13:27,110 I usually just [INAUDIBLE] short little-- 269 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:28,526 GREG HOPKINS: That's an old term , 270 00:13:28,526 --> 00:13:31,400 nobody talks about that stuff anymore. 271 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,260 D-O-I-T it's called doit. 272 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:36,900 Doy-eet. 273 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:37,930 TIM RAY: Where are we? 274 00:13:37,930 --> 00:13:38,960 GREG HOPKINS: Bar nine. 275 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:39,470 Third line. 276 00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:41,620 Two, a one, two, three. 277 00:13:47,730 --> 00:13:50,125 Two, three. 278 00:13:50,125 --> 00:13:53,130 Three, four. 279 00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:55,530 Two, three. 280 00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:56,300 Three, four. 281 00:14:00,490 --> 00:14:00,990 Good. 282 00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:02,320 A two, a one, two. 283 00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:09,520 Quiet. 284 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,010 Two, three. 285 00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:32,370 Yeah, nice. 286 00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,490 So the fermata would just be for the ending. 287 00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:38,110 And then we would go to that three four bar 288 00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:40,910 and then go right back to the beginning and start the blues. 289 00:14:44,184 --> 00:14:46,100 TIM RAY: The blues is in four four by the way, 290 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,560 and I know the chart's not clear about that. 291 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,290 But, yeah four four blues. 292 00:14:50,290 --> 00:14:50,915 For the improv. 293 00:14:50,915 --> 00:14:51,706 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah. 294 00:14:51,706 --> 00:14:53,240 So the whole ending part is supposed 295 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,780 to create this tension, a little angst. 296 00:14:56,780 --> 00:15:00,010 With the rhythm, four against three, and then the four 297 00:15:00,010 --> 00:15:01,290 goes faster than you think. 298 00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:03,750 And then when we start to play the blues form, 299 00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:06,504 it relaxes back to regular tempo. 300 00:15:06,504 --> 00:15:08,670 So the cat's kind of clawing its way up the curtain. 301 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:17,180 But we don't play-- we don't improvise on that, 302 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:18,930 but you could certainly include the motifs 303 00:15:18,930 --> 00:15:19,888 in your improvisations. 304 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:23,860 TIM RAY: Cool. 305 00:15:23,860 --> 00:15:24,950 GREG HOPKINS: Should we do it with some solos? 306 00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:26,240 TIM RAY: Yeah, let's do it with some solos. 307 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,191 Yeah. 308 00:15:27,191 --> 00:15:29,690 GREG HOPKINS: Now, we perform it as a totally conversational 309 00:15:29,690 --> 00:15:31,220 piece. 310 00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:33,120 There's no accompaniment. 311 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,710 Everybody's just soloing at the same time, which 312 00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:43,010 is an interesting style which I like. 313 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:46,790 I tend to play a lot less when I'm playing conversationally. 314 00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:51,226 Because you want the person to talk back to you. 315 00:15:51,226 --> 00:15:53,475 You can't be like some professors who 316 00:15:53,475 --> 00:15:54,974 just talk and talk and talk and talk 317 00:15:54,974 --> 00:15:56,280 and you can't say anything. 318 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,430 OK. 319 00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:58,160 Just take notes. 320 00:16:02,027 --> 00:16:02,610 TIM RAY: Cool. 321 00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:06,570 But you want to-- maybe we'll start with-- well, 322 00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:08,140 let's play the melody again. 323 00:16:08,140 --> 00:16:12,395 And then, and then maybe we'll do a little bit of soloing. 324 00:16:12,395 --> 00:16:13,550 I'll maybe keep the form-- 325 00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:15,220 GREG HOPKINS: It's going to be tough with this many people 326 00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:16,280 to play conversationally. 327 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,430 TIM RAY: Yeah, well maybe by the end we'll get there. 328 00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:22,760 We won't start there, though. 329 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,571 But I would like to hear some people kind of pair off. 330 00:16:25,571 --> 00:16:28,070 But you want-- maybe we should do, like, individually first. 331 00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:29,361 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, I think so. 332 00:16:29,361 --> 00:16:32,430 Let's do a chorus each. 333 00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:33,780 TIM RAY: Cool, all right. 334 00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:35,600 GREG HOPKINS: And will you comp? 335 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,612 TIM RAY: Yeah, I'll do some comp. 336 00:16:37,612 --> 00:16:40,070 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, do some typical comping. 337 00:16:40,070 --> 00:16:42,820 Base notes, you play the melody. 338 00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:45,710 I mean, all you need really is base and melody. 339 00:16:45,710 --> 00:16:50,050 Two parts to have counterpoint. 340 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:54,110 Any two lines could be counterpointal. 341 00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:56,990 Then there's conversational. 342 00:16:56,990 --> 00:17:00,120 Much more fun than playing alone. 343 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,532 GUEST SPEAKER: And we've all-- everybody's assignment 344 00:17:02,532 --> 00:17:04,102 was to prepare, right? 345 00:17:04,102 --> 00:17:07,170 Some thoughts about how you would treat the motif. 346 00:17:07,170 --> 00:17:08,754 So why don't we start there? 347 00:17:08,754 --> 00:17:11,859 Then we see how that expands. 348 00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:13,020 TIM RAY: Cool. 349 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:15,663 GREG HOPKINS: So, do the melody once and then we'll start. 350 00:17:15,663 --> 00:17:17,329 So just go around, you want to go first? 351 00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:19,200 We'll go around. 352 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,090 We can start there. 353 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,673 A one, two. 354 00:17:25,673 --> 00:21:46,429 [MUSIC PLAYING] 355 00:21:46,429 --> 00:21:47,470 TIM RAY: Yeah, all right. 356 00:21:47,470 --> 00:21:47,970 Cool. 357 00:21:47,970 --> 00:21:49,194 Let's stop there. 358 00:21:49,194 --> 00:21:49,860 Nice, all right. 359 00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:51,750 Great, it's great to hear all of you play. 360 00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:53,490 Excellent, thank you. 361 00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:55,370 GREG HOPKINS: So we all played one chorus. 362 00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:59,130 TIM RAY: Yeah, so we all did one chorus. 363 00:21:59,130 --> 00:22:00,890 While I heard a lot of really nice ideas, 364 00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:03,660 I didn't hear a whole lot of use of the motifs. 365 00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:05,350 Let's look at those real quick. 366 00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:07,280 GREG HOPKINS: I heard the first motif a lot. 367 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:07,540 TIM RAY: Did you? 368 00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:07,750 OK. 369 00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:09,333 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, some of you played 370 00:22:09,333 --> 00:22:14,100 that opening, which I did five times. 371 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,330 But I transposed it each time. 372 00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:20,904 So it kind of created a little line cliche, as we say. 373 00:22:20,904 --> 00:22:21,570 TIM RAY: Indeed. 374 00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:22,410 Indeed. 375 00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:22,910 Right. 376 00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:24,993 So that first one, I think we looked at these just 377 00:22:24,993 --> 00:22:26,240 briefly last time. 378 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,100 Yeah, the first one is a good one to grab. 379 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,190 The repeated note, that's a nice one. 380 00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:35,370 GREG HOPKINS: Number two, number two. 381 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:36,372 That's funky. 382 00:22:36,372 --> 00:22:37,830 TIM RAY: That's pretty funky, yeah. 383 00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:39,560 GREG HOPKINS: You could go [PLAYS MUSIC]. 384 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,210 You could go [PLAYS MUSIC]. 385 00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:42,736 You could go [PLAYS MUSIC]. 386 00:22:42,736 --> 00:22:44,180 You could go [PLAYS MUSIC]. 387 00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:45,669 You could go [PLAYS MUSIC]. 388 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,470 Just play it, you could do-- yeah, 389 00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,630 we could do several choruses just on that. 390 00:23:00,630 --> 00:23:02,600 TIM RAY: Just on that, I know. 391 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:03,620 And we probably have. 392 00:23:03,620 --> 00:23:05,330 GREG HOPKINS: By changing notes, I'm 393 00:23:05,330 --> 00:23:08,680 using the rhythmic contours of motif. 394 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,590 So, the da da da da, I could do anything I want there. 395 00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:21,373 [PLAYS MUSIC] 396 00:23:21,373 --> 00:23:22,340 Yeah. 397 00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:25,620 You could work your way through creating interesting melodies 398 00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:29,575 by changing the notes. 399 00:23:29,575 --> 00:23:32,080 TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely. 400 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,922 Do you want to do a little motivic exercise, maybe? 401 00:23:34,922 --> 00:23:36,380 We'll go-- we'll do the same thing. 402 00:23:36,380 --> 00:23:37,040 We'll go around the-- 403 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,748 GREG HOPKINS: Let's just play that motif. 404 00:23:38,748 --> 00:23:39,577 Da da da da. 405 00:23:39,577 --> 00:23:40,160 TIM RAY: Yeah. 406 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,360 GREG HOPKINS: So you can play four notes. 407 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:43,820 One two three four. 408 00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:48,027 You can play any intervals, though. 409 00:23:48,027 --> 00:23:48,610 TIM RAY: Cool. 410 00:23:52,670 --> 00:23:53,847 GREG HOPKINS: Not yet. 411 00:23:53,847 --> 00:23:55,430 This is my warm up, Mark, for the day. 412 00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:56,927 [LAUGHTER] 413 00:23:56,927 --> 00:23:58,052 GUEST SPEAKER: Pretty good. 414 00:23:58,052 --> 00:23:59,927 GREG HOPKINS: It's a good tune to warm up on. 415 00:23:59,927 --> 00:24:00,570 TIM RAY: It is. 416 00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:03,411 So, you want to do everybody four measures? 417 00:24:03,411 --> 00:24:04,410 GREG HOPKINS: Let's do-- 418 00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:04,970 TIM RAY: [INAUDIBLE] 419 00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:05,080 Sure. 420 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:05,870 Four bars each. 421 00:24:05,870 --> 00:24:06,430 TIM RAY: What do you think? 422 00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:06,930 OK. 423 00:24:06,930 --> 00:24:08,160 Just doing that motif. 424 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,500 Just the repeated note motif. 425 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:09,860 All right. 426 00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:10,693 Why don't you start. 427 00:24:10,693 --> 00:24:12,530 GREG HOPKINS: A two, a one, two. 428 00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:35,561 Good Nice idea. 429 00:24:35,561 --> 00:24:36,060 Yeah. 430 00:24:56,670 --> 00:24:57,340 Do another one. 431 00:24:57,340 --> 00:24:57,980 You go. 432 00:24:57,980 --> 00:24:58,650 One. 433 00:24:58,650 --> 00:24:59,090 AUDIENCE: From this [INAUDIBLE]? 434 00:24:59,090 --> 00:24:59,881 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah. 435 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,060 Flute. 436 00:25:17,121 --> 00:25:17,912 TIM RAY: You ready? 437 00:25:24,856 --> 00:25:25,685 Yeah, nice. 438 00:25:25,685 --> 00:25:26,710 GREG HOPKINS: Next solo. 439 00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:46,000 [LAUGHTER] 440 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,500 Yeah. 441 00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:49,470 So we're setting parameters now. 442 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:52,799 You have to use that material and create with that. 443 00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:54,840 It's like, I mean we're sculptors, Let's face it, 444 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,300 we're just shaping stuff out of these materials. 445 00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:00,960 So sometimes it's really good to limit yourself. 446 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,040 That's what an etude is, an etude is always 447 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,880 like one idea for the whole page. 448 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,562 And the composer of the etude does it 449 00:26:08,562 --> 00:26:12,260 in all the different keys so you'll learn it. 450 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:15,320 So it's really good to set the parameters like that I think. 451 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,820 TIM RAY: Yeah, oh I think so too. 452 00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:18,590 I think it's a great way to-- you know, 453 00:26:18,590 --> 00:26:19,960 there's all kinds of parameters. 454 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,310 You can obviously-- we're doing the little motivic thing 455 00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:25,380 with the four notes, but you can, 456 00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:27,410 obviously-- there's any number of other motifs 457 00:26:27,410 --> 00:26:28,460 you could do that with. 458 00:26:28,460 --> 00:26:32,250 You can do set parameters, as far 459 00:26:32,250 --> 00:26:33,830 as the range of your instruments, 460 00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:38,070 or dynamics, or rhythmic density, 461 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:40,530 you know, do a solo with all quarter notes. 462 00:26:40,530 --> 00:26:41,070 Right? 463 00:26:41,070 --> 00:26:43,240 Or do a solo with all quarter note triplets, right? 464 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,610 Something like that, that's another great way 465 00:26:45,610 --> 00:26:50,755 to kind of expand your range. 466 00:26:50,755 --> 00:26:52,130 In other words, expand your range 467 00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:53,950 of what you're doing with improvisation. 468 00:26:57,130 --> 00:27:00,020 Let's do another one of those. 469 00:27:00,020 --> 00:27:02,037 Let's see, what's another good motif to grab? 470 00:27:02,037 --> 00:27:03,620 GREG HOPKINS: Bar nine is pretty good. 471 00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:13,906 That might be a little hard. 472 00:27:13,906 --> 00:27:15,540 Well, the opening motif is good. 473 00:27:19,157 --> 00:27:19,740 TIM RAY: Cool. 474 00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:20,580 Cool. 475 00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:24,190 Yeah, let's do the same thing. 476 00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:25,170 Four measures again? 477 00:27:25,170 --> 00:27:25,810 GREG HOPKINS: Four measures. 478 00:27:25,810 --> 00:27:27,240 We'll do the opening motif. 479 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,240 Two, a one, two, three. 480 00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:44,520 Nice. 481 00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:49,700 Nice. 482 00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:50,720 Go ahead. 483 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:51,505 Change direction. 484 00:27:56,883 --> 00:27:57,383 Nice. 485 00:28:20,032 --> 00:28:20,615 TIM RAY: Yeah. 486 00:28:50,792 --> 00:28:51,500 GREG HOPKINS: OK. 487 00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:56,440 So, I mean, how would you practice something like that? 488 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,932 Well, let's play that motif. 489 00:28:59,932 --> 00:29:00,890 Just those three notes. 490 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:08,745 OK, let's go up in half steps. 491 00:29:08,745 --> 00:29:11,370 So I'm going to sequence it, I'm going to play it in every key. 492 00:29:14,010 --> 00:29:17,216 OK, and then we go (PLAYS MUSIC). 493 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:24,700 Yeah. 494 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:32,290 So the first one, D G, D G, D G D. Now, 495 00:29:32,290 --> 00:29:33,830 what am I-- I'm hearing in my head, 496 00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:36,138 I'm hearing five one five. 497 00:29:36,138 --> 00:29:38,280 So I'm hearing it in the key. 498 00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:45,170 Up a half. 499 00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:47,710 So an A-flat now. 500 00:29:47,710 --> 00:29:52,450 Let's do it in A. A. 501 00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:55,506 Next key. 502 00:29:55,506 --> 00:29:56,398 Next key. 503 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,580 Next key. 504 00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:02,300 Next key. 505 00:30:20,865 --> 00:30:21,855 Yeah, good. 506 00:30:21,855 --> 00:30:23,840 OK? 507 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,820 So then we could (PLAYS MUSIC). 508 00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:35,490 You can put it in, and we could do the same thing going down. 509 00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:36,940 We could do the motif down. 510 00:30:44,445 --> 00:30:46,320 I mean, that's what you do when you practice. 511 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,930 You do really mundane-- maybe not mundane, 512 00:30:49,930 --> 00:30:54,240 you do really small, little things. 513 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,370 I mean, it might take me 10 minutes 514 00:30:56,370 --> 00:31:00,410 to really feel comfortable with that, just those intervals 515 00:31:00,410 --> 00:31:02,907 going up in sequences like that. 516 00:31:02,907 --> 00:31:03,990 TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely. 517 00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:05,698 GREG HOPKINS: And then you could sequence 518 00:31:05,698 --> 00:31:08,550 things four different ways. 519 00:31:08,550 --> 00:31:10,020 Let's sequence it in whole steps. 520 00:31:19,602 --> 00:31:22,060 Up a whole step, I'm going to go up a whole step each time. 521 00:31:30,210 --> 00:31:31,811 Too high? 522 00:31:31,811 --> 00:31:32,310 Yeah. 523 00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:34,890 So the person is going to be in G then A then B 524 00:31:34,890 --> 00:31:39,130 then C-sharp, then E-flat, then F, and then G again. 525 00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:39,727 Right? 526 00:31:39,727 --> 00:31:40,310 TIM RAY: Yeah. 527 00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:41,282 Absolutely. 528 00:31:41,282 --> 00:31:42,490 GREG HOPKINS: Can we do that? 529 00:31:42,490 --> 00:31:43,000 TIM RAY: Sure. 530 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,291 GREG HOPKINS: Let's just go up. 531 00:31:44,291 --> 00:31:45,269 Skip the first note. 532 00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:47,310 Now I'm going to sequence just the first measure. 533 00:32:03,699 --> 00:32:04,198 Right. 534 00:32:04,198 --> 00:32:05,100 That's it. 535 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:15,547 There I go. 536 00:32:15,547 --> 00:32:17,880 It's the whole thing, now it's a whole different animal. 537 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,302 Now it sounds like a progression, right? 538 00:32:20,302 --> 00:32:21,010 TIM RAY: It does. 539 00:32:21,010 --> 00:32:21,930 Yeah, absolutely. 540 00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:28,180 GREG HOPKINS: So that creates it. 541 00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:31,941 And we can do it in minor thirds. 542 00:32:31,941 --> 00:32:32,440 OK? 543 00:32:42,730 --> 00:32:44,070 Let's do that over a G pedal. 544 00:32:52,390 --> 00:32:55,770 Yeah, that creates kind of a bluesy feeling. 545 00:32:55,770 --> 00:32:57,220 It's like a G diminished chord. 546 00:32:57,220 --> 00:32:58,303 TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely. 547 00:33:00,590 --> 00:33:02,645 Right, yeah. 548 00:33:02,645 --> 00:33:04,770 GREG HOPKINS: So now I'm creating counterpoint just 549 00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:06,620 with the motif. 550 00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:08,120 Then we could do it in major thirds. 551 00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:18,270 That's an interesting one too-- 552 00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:19,020 TIM RAY: It is. 553 00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:19,460 GREG HOPKINS: You think? 554 00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:19,670 TIM RAY: Oh yeah. 555 00:33:19,670 --> 00:33:20,390 Absolutely. 556 00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:22,556 GREG HOPKINS: This is-- I learned all this from him. 557 00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:27,710 [LAUGHTER] 558 00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:30,537 Let's do that over a D pedal. 559 00:33:30,537 --> 00:33:31,120 TIM RAY: Sure. 560 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,078 GREG HOPKINS: One, two. 561 00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:51,120 Then we could do cycle four. 562 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,710 So we did half steps, whole steps, minor thirds, 563 00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:56,700 major thirds, what's the next interval? 564 00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:02,860 Above a major third is a perfect fourth. 565 00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:06,940 So this is going-- there's going to be 12 of them. 566 00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:08,810 This is cycle five, right? 567 00:34:08,810 --> 00:34:09,715 TIM RAY: Sure, yeah. 568 00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:20,340 Yeah, right. 569 00:34:20,340 --> 00:34:21,179 Or you can just-- 570 00:34:21,179 --> 00:34:21,840 GREG HOPKINS: Now we're going to expand it. 571 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,250 We're going to play a minor triad. 572 00:34:23,250 --> 00:34:25,791 Instead of just one five, we're going to play one three five. 573 00:34:33,694 --> 00:34:36,480 Let's play up and down a minor triad. 574 00:34:44,219 --> 00:34:46,219 So we embellished the lick. 575 00:34:46,219 --> 00:34:46,719 That's fine. 576 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,429 You can add notes whenever you want. 577 00:34:50,429 --> 00:34:52,120 Why'd you do that? 578 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:52,620 I wanted to. 579 00:34:56,489 --> 00:34:58,950 G minor, so now we're going to do cycles, 580 00:34:58,950 --> 00:35:02,830 so we're going to go a forth up to C minor, fourth up to F 581 00:35:02,830 --> 00:35:05,670 minor, B-flat minor, E-flat minor, A-flat minor, D-flat 582 00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:09,300 minor, G-flat minor, B minor, E minor, A minor, D minor, 583 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,925 back to G. Slowly. 584 00:35:12,925 --> 00:35:13,520 Ready, go. 585 00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:46,965 So now I'm going to take that same idea 586 00:35:46,965 --> 00:35:48,180 and do it in whole steps. 587 00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:54,920 And so on. 588 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,060 It's all just grunt work. 589 00:35:59,060 --> 00:36:00,270 But that's what Coltrane did. 590 00:36:00,270 --> 00:36:02,780 He used to practice in his apartment eight hours a day. 591 00:36:02,780 --> 00:36:08,450 Eight hours a day just on these-- what he was playing. 592 00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:11,160 He made up his own etudes. 593 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,150 Yeah, he did. 594 00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:15,967 Which is what all the good-- all the great players do. 595 00:36:15,967 --> 00:36:17,050 TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely. 596 00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:18,960 I mean, certainly-- 597 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,590 GREG HOPKINS: This is the model. 598 00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:21,490 This is the model. 599 00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:23,420 This has dozens of ideas. 600 00:36:26,452 --> 00:36:27,910 TIM RAY: Yeah, and certainly that's 601 00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:30,782 the idea of any kind of work on improvisation. 602 00:36:30,782 --> 00:36:32,990 You know, when you're sitting alone at home thinking, 603 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:34,570 you know, because everyone always says, 604 00:36:34,570 --> 00:36:35,985 well I don't know how to practice improvisation. 605 00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:36,760 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, what should I do? 606 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:37,880 Oh, I'm going to play my scales every day. 607 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:38,546 OK, that's fine. 608 00:36:38,546 --> 00:36:40,790 TIM RAY: Because it's spontaneous. 609 00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:43,400 GREG HOPKINS: You got make goals, a set of goals. 610 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,880 And we can tell you what goals, what projects to work on. 611 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,630 TIM RAY: But yeah. 612 00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:53,580 But a lot of it's just about coming up with stuff like this. 613 00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:56,560 Obviously, as Greg said, we can tell you stuff 614 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,050 or you could go buy books that have 615 00:36:58,050 --> 00:36:59,340 patterns and stuff like that. 616 00:36:59,340 --> 00:37:01,170 And that's all great, but sometimes it's 617 00:37:01,170 --> 00:37:02,586 just about what we're doing, which 618 00:37:02,586 --> 00:37:03,910 is like, OK, let's try that. 619 00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:05,160 Now let's try it up a fourth. 620 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,090 And let's find this little two bar thing. 621 00:37:09,090 --> 00:37:11,010 I mean, if you want to get more difficult 622 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:14,464 you can find something even in a tune like this. 623 00:37:14,464 --> 00:37:16,130 Something that's a little more difficult 624 00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:17,639 and try that in all 12 keys. 625 00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,305 GREG HOPKINS: Let's do bar 17, you know. 626 00:37:19,305 --> 00:37:19,770 [LAUGHTER] 627 00:37:19,770 --> 00:37:20,645 TIM RAY: Yeah, right. 628 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,310 No, I'm not going to try it. 629 00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:28,850 GREG HOPKINS: That's a-- basically 630 00:37:28,850 --> 00:37:31,570 it's this a B-flat lick. 631 00:37:38,930 --> 00:37:41,132 Yeah, that was my idea, I want to go 632 00:37:41,132 --> 00:37:44,860 from B-flat to B-flat with some kind of maybe 12 tone idea, 633 00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:47,990 I don't know what it is. 634 00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:50,080 TIM RAY: Yeah, so that's, as Greg says, 635 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:56,264 a lot of just sitting alone at home work that's, I think, 636 00:37:56,264 --> 00:37:57,180 that's really helpful. 637 00:37:57,180 --> 00:37:58,388 All the great players did it. 638 00:37:58,388 --> 00:38:00,380 They all spent 10,000 hours. 639 00:38:00,380 --> 00:38:01,800 Is that the current idea? 640 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,470 GREG HOPKINS: I do the same thing. 641 00:38:03,470 --> 00:38:05,310 I do the same thing with my scales. 642 00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:08,340 How do you practice your scales? 643 00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:10,320 Well, you do them in intervals. 644 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,610 I mean, what is a melody? 645 00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:12,760 Let's define melody. 646 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,220 This is a good place to do it. 647 00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:18,450 Let's have a real technical definition of melody. 648 00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:19,450 Anybody, what is melody? 649 00:38:21,817 --> 00:38:23,400 First thing that comes into your head. 650 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:24,445 What's the melody? 651 00:38:24,445 --> 00:38:26,225 AUDIENCE: Whatever you'd sing after you're 652 00:38:26,225 --> 00:38:28,010 done listening to it. 653 00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:30,870 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, whatever you hear-- what did you say? 654 00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:31,425 AUDIENCE: Whatever you would sing 655 00:38:31,425 --> 00:38:32,925 after you were done listening to it. 656 00:38:32,925 --> 00:38:36,144 GREG HOPKINS: Good, yeah, whatever you'd sing. 657 00:38:36,144 --> 00:38:38,560 You're a melody player, violin, you're all melody players. 658 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,980 Yeah. 659 00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:41,620 You guys, too. 660 00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:42,550 What's melody to you? 661 00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:49,048 AUDIENCE: It's kind of the song-- 662 00:38:49,048 --> 00:38:50,673 GREG HOPKINS: It's the song, very good. 663 00:38:50,673 --> 00:38:51,380 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 664 00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:52,970 GREG HOPKINS: Many people say that. 665 00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:53,820 It's the main idea. 666 00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:58,040 It's the meaning. 667 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,390 Technically, is this music? 668 00:39:01,390 --> 00:39:03,800 No, this is paper with ink on it. 669 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,220 This is graph paper. 670 00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:07,040 This is graph paper. 671 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,790 Pitch goes up and down, time goes that way. 672 00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:12,210 This is not music. 673 00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:15,640 It's only music when you realize it, when you play it. 674 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:22,040 So, the better you are at creating intervals, 675 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,400 the better you'll be at melody playing. 676 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,650 A melody is a series of intervals 677 00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:29,860 in some kind of rhythm. 678 00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:44,288 So if I play-- that's the sixth. 679 00:39:44,288 --> 00:39:49,150 So six down, fourth up, third up, 680 00:39:49,150 --> 00:39:53,320 minor sixth down, half step up, half step, half step. 681 00:39:56,794 --> 00:39:58,960 That's what a melody is, it's a series of intervals, 682 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,100 that's all. 683 00:40:01,100 --> 00:40:02,280 In some kind of time, right? 684 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:12,490 Every melody-- that's a third, and then a fourth. 685 00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:14,620 Another third, second second, major seventh. 686 00:40:17,130 --> 00:40:18,970 So, when we're playing our scales, right? 687 00:40:48,430 --> 00:40:49,920 That's all the same scale, I just 688 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,045 played different intervals. 689 00:40:51,045 --> 00:40:52,620 I'll play the scale in seconds, I'll 690 00:40:52,620 --> 00:40:55,810 play the scale in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, 691 00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:58,260 and sevenths. 692 00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:00,380 Let's play G melodic minor. 693 00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:01,680 No, G-natural minor. 694 00:41:10,724 --> 00:41:11,930 Good, yeah, up and down. 695 00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:12,840 One note in the top. 696 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,340 Go. 697 00:41:21,369 --> 00:41:22,285 Now play it in thirds. 698 00:41:30,889 --> 00:41:32,180 Now play it in fourths, slowly. 699 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,145 Now in fifths. 700 00:41:57,540 --> 00:41:58,040 Nice. 701 00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,220 Sixth is really pretty. 702 00:42:13,232 --> 00:42:17,290 Sevenths is even more diverse, a little obtuse, maybe? 703 00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:36,730 Yeah. 704 00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:39,370 Octaves. 705 00:42:39,370 --> 00:42:39,962 Ninths. 706 00:42:39,962 --> 00:42:41,670 I mean, you could expand it even further. 707 00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:43,130 TIM RAY: Sure. 708 00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:44,870 GREG HOPKINS: You do that, right? 709 00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:45,000 TIM RAY: Yeah. 710 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:45,540 GREG HOPKINS: You've got to learn your intervals. 711 00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:46,331 TIM RAY: Of course. 712 00:42:46,331 --> 00:42:47,297 Yeah, absolutely. 713 00:42:47,297 --> 00:42:49,130 GREG HOPKINS: And also inherent in the scale 714 00:42:49,130 --> 00:42:55,211 is diatonic triads and diatonic seventh chords. 715 00:42:55,211 --> 00:42:56,210 Do you do that in class? 716 00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:58,054 GUEST SPEAKER: We haven't done that. 717 00:42:58,054 --> 00:43:01,400 Have you done that with Tom? 718 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,150 GREG HOPKINS: Yeah, play up all the triads 719 00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:05,210 in the G minor scale. 720 00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:07,250 TIM RAY: Yeah, well, right. 721 00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:08,810 If you're doing natural minor. 722 00:43:17,334 --> 00:43:18,500 GREG HOPKINS: Let's do that. 723 00:43:40,780 --> 00:43:42,800 It's just building blocks. 724 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,027 This is the building blocks of melody and harmony. 725 00:43:46,027 --> 00:43:47,250 TIM RAY: Yeah, that's true. 726 00:43:47,250 --> 00:43:48,910 GREG HOPKINS: And then as you study each scale, 727 00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:49,995 each scale is different. 728 00:43:49,995 --> 00:43:52,520 Each scale has characteristic notes 729 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,560 that make it function different than other scales. 730 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,540 That's what makes the scales different, 731 00:43:57,540 --> 00:44:00,300 is the different notes. 732 00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:02,820 And how the architecture of the scale 733 00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:06,080 works and draws things together. 734 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,666 So, I mean that's what we study when we practice. 735 00:44:08,666 --> 00:44:10,730 I'll practice scales and I'll try 736 00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:14,190 to really get the meaning out of the scale. 737 00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:39,140 This scale, natural minor, is-- Yeah, I 738 00:44:39,140 --> 00:44:41,730 mean there's certain things that make that scale work, right? 739 00:44:41,730 --> 00:44:42,120 TIM RAY: Sure, absolutely. 740 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,110 GREG HOPKINS: Flat sixth, right? 741 00:44:43,110 --> 00:44:43,943 TIM RAY: Yeah, yeah. 742 00:44:43,943 --> 00:44:45,140 Absolutely. 743 00:44:45,140 --> 00:44:47,140 GREG HOPKINS: So if I'm playing a natural minor, 744 00:44:47,140 --> 00:44:52,140 I immediately know that the flat sixth is a real strong note. 745 00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:55,670 Let's just play a natural-- we'll play a natural minor just 746 00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:56,407 for a minute. 747 00:44:56,407 --> 00:44:56,990 TIM RAY: Sure. 748 00:44:56,990 --> 00:44:59,270 GREG HOPKINS: G, so it'll be like C minor, right? 749 00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:00,222 Another chord? 750 00:45:00,222 --> 00:45:02,580 TIM RAY: Right, yeah. 751 00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:05,650 GREG HOPKINS: So one, two, a one, two, three. 752 00:45:18,562 --> 00:45:20,130 Yeah. 753 00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:21,370 TIM RAY: Yeah, all right. 754 00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:22,370 GREG HOPKINS: So you're using D seven? 755 00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:23,640 TIM RAY: Yeah, I used D seven. 756 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,530 GREG HOPKINS: Oh, you used D seven, OK. 757 00:45:24,530 --> 00:45:25,750 TIM RAY: Yeah, I threw that in. 758 00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:26,680 Which is not technically part-- 759 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,513 GUEST SPEAKER: We did this with [INAUDIBLE], 760 00:45:28,513 --> 00:45:30,480 and so you're already talking [INAUDIBLE]. 761 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,938 GREG HOPKINS: This is aeolian mode. 762 00:45:31,938 --> 00:45:33,270 It's called the aeolian mode. 763 00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:34,860 Let's just play G minor C minor. 764 00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:35,540 TIM RAY: Yeah. 765 00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:36,665 GREG HOPKINS: One bar each. 766 00:45:36,665 --> 00:45:37,770 One two three four-- 767 00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:55,447 I think modes is a great way to start learning harmony. 768 00:45:55,447 --> 00:45:56,530 TIM RAY: Absolutely, yeah. 769 00:45:56,530 --> 00:45:58,730 GREG HOPKINS: Because there's only one note, 770 00:45:58,730 --> 00:46:00,030 really, that's really strong. 771 00:46:00,030 --> 00:46:04,500 So here were playing G minor for a bar and C minor for a bar. 772 00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:05,410 G minor, C minor. 773 00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:07,260 What's the note that changes the most? 774 00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:12,870 When you play the C minor it's going to be the E-flat. 775 00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:15,050 The E-flat. 776 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:18,000 So the G minor has a D in it, right? 777 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,125 In then you go to C minor. 778 00:46:19,125 --> 00:46:21,875 [SINGS NOTE] 779 00:46:26,180 --> 00:46:27,987 So that's the meaning of aeolian. 780 00:46:27,987 --> 00:46:29,070 TIM RAY: Absolutely, yeah. 781 00:46:29,070 --> 00:46:30,820 GREG HOPKINS: You could play E-flat major, 782 00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:34,890 would be a good chord too, I think. 783 00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:37,680 Let's play a bar each, G minor and C minor. 784 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:38,930 Let's start over here, guitar. 785 00:46:38,930 --> 00:46:42,580 One, a two, a one, two, three, four. 786 00:46:48,070 --> 00:46:48,570 Good. 787 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,020 Yeah. 788 00:47:48,930 --> 00:47:49,669 Yeah, OK. 789 00:47:49,669 --> 00:47:50,210 Got the idea? 790 00:47:50,210 --> 00:47:50,960 Yeah, that's good. 791 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,730 I mean that's really good for your ear. 792 00:47:52,730 --> 00:47:55,530 Now I'm really working on a small slice 793 00:47:55,530 --> 00:48:00,940 of harmonic information that I could put to use. 794 00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:04,080 Now you played D seven before, what scale would that be? 795 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,035 TIM RAY: Yeah, right? 796 00:48:05,035 --> 00:48:08,730 So, D seven has got what note in it-- 797 00:48:08,730 --> 00:48:10,500 GREG HOPKINS: What note does D seven have? 798 00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:13,030 TIM RAY: --that doesn't belong in the aeolian-- 799 00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:14,485 GREG HOPKINS: That's different. 800 00:48:14,485 --> 00:48:15,360 TIM RAY: Yeah, right. 801 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:16,090 You played it, Chris. 802 00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:16,600 F-sharp, right? 803 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:16,950 GREG HOPKINS: F-sharp. 804 00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:17,449 Yeah. 805 00:48:20,434 --> 00:48:21,934 So that's kind of like G-- now we've 806 00:48:21,934 --> 00:48:23,434 got to learn G harmonic minor scale. 807 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,030 Which has that very interesting augmented second interval. 808 00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:44,220 Gives it an exotic, Middle Eastern or Detroit flavor. 809 00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:50,790 Let's play harmonic minor. 810 00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:52,230 One, two, three. 811 00:49:00,860 --> 00:49:04,190 Let's play the triads in harmonic minor-- slowly. 812 00:49:04,190 --> 00:49:32,500 One, two-- Yeah. 813 00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:34,816 The three chord's very interesting, augmented chord. 814 00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:48,440 And the four chord is still minor. 815 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:54,280 So it's similar to aeolian but it has the much preferred 816 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,350 leading tone, the F-sharp. 817 00:49:56,350 --> 00:49:58,210 TIM RAY: Yes, indeed. 818 00:49:58,210 --> 00:50:00,710 GREG HOPKINS: Just for fun, now let's play G minor for a bar 819 00:50:00,710 --> 00:50:02,961 and D seven flat nine for a bar. 820 00:50:02,961 --> 00:50:03,710 What do you think? 821 00:50:03,710 --> 00:50:05,990 TIM RAY: Yeah. 822 00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:07,295 GREG HOPKINS: Flute first. 823 00:50:07,295 --> 00:50:08,400 Nah, I'll start. 824 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:42,565 Two, a one, two, three-- Yeah, yeah, nice. 825 00:51:34,250 --> 00:51:35,970 Yeah, and so on. 826 00:51:35,970 --> 00:51:37,445 It's another small slice of harmony 827 00:51:37,445 --> 00:51:40,720 but it's different than the first one. 828 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,590 So you practice that and you practice it, and then it sinks 829 00:51:43,590 --> 00:51:44,570 in your ear. 830 00:51:44,570 --> 00:51:46,580 Because this is nothing but ear training. 831 00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:51,940 All this is just ear training so you can pick your flavors. 832 00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:55,020 OK, I want this flavor, I want that color, that mood, 833 00:51:55,020 --> 00:51:57,985 that sound. 834 00:51:57,985 --> 00:51:59,480 Then there's melodic minor. 835 00:52:02,811 --> 00:52:04,435 Yeah, because when you play a minor key 836 00:52:04,435 --> 00:52:06,010 you don't just play one scale, we 837 00:52:06,010 --> 00:52:09,085 mix four or five minor scales together. 838 00:52:11,820 --> 00:52:13,860 And if I play a certain note, he'll 839 00:52:13,860 --> 00:52:18,172 hear it and play the voicing behind me, or whatever. 840 00:52:18,172 --> 00:52:18,880 TIM RAY: Exactly. 841 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,810 That's where listening comes into play. 842 00:52:21,810 --> 00:52:23,310 Listening to the person you're with. 843 00:52:23,310 --> 00:52:25,310 GREG HOPKINS: When Wayne Shorter was in the Army 844 00:52:25,310 --> 00:52:29,240 he used to spend a month on one scale. 845 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:34,300 He would practice the key of D-flat for months. 846 00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:36,486 He'd play every tune he knew in D-flat. 847 00:52:36,486 --> 00:52:38,610 He'd practice the scales, he'd practice the chords, 848 00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:43,060 he'd play rhythm changes, blues, everything in one key. 849 00:52:46,777 --> 00:52:48,110 And Coltrane did the same thing. 850 00:52:48,110 --> 00:52:51,750 All the guys that practiced. 851 00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:54,080 I have a tape of Clifford Brown practicing the bridge 852 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,086 to "Cherokee" for an hour. 853 00:52:58,086 --> 00:52:59,460 And you know he did it every day. 854 00:53:02,136 --> 00:53:03,010 Played with his mute. 855 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:06,620 TIM RAY: Cool. 856 00:53:06,620 --> 00:53:09,710 So I also wanted to get back to-- 857 00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:14,620 and this great information, certainly-- I 858 00:53:14,620 --> 00:53:16,870 wanted to get back the idea of having you guys pair up 859 00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:18,080 a little bit. 860 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,580 And maybe try it without me doing the accompaniment, which 861 00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:27,960 of course is about listening, as I was saying just a second ago, 862 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,546 listening to who you're with. 863 00:53:30,546 --> 00:53:33,460 Without the accompaniment it becomes-- 864 00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:35,570 what becomes more important? 865 00:53:35,570 --> 00:53:37,470 This is like as Greg and I and Eugene 866 00:53:37,470 --> 00:53:38,886 were doing with the song, where we 867 00:53:38,886 --> 00:53:40,635 were all kind of soloing at the same time. 868 00:53:40,635 --> 00:53:43,420 That's what I want to try to get you guys to do a little bit. 869 00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:45,410 And what aspect of music becomes more 870 00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:49,580 important in that situation. 871 00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,015 Something we haven't really talked about yet today. 872 00:53:55,340 --> 00:54:00,390 GREG HOPKINS: So let's have flute, sax, and guitar. 873 00:54:00,390 --> 00:54:04,360 TIM RAY: What I was getting at was rhythm, right? 874 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:09,460 Again, getting back to the idea that we're all time 875 00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:10,230 keepers, right. 876 00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:13,885 I mean, when you hear somebody like Greg who 877 00:54:13,885 --> 00:54:20,164 is a great improviser, his rhythmic ideas are very clear. 878 00:54:20,164 --> 00:54:21,580 His rhythmic ideas are very clear, 879 00:54:21,580 --> 00:54:23,500 and if he does something intentionally 880 00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:25,440 that's a little less clear, he follows it up 881 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,310 with something that's more clear so that the people around him 882 00:54:28,310 --> 00:54:30,130 know where the beats are, right? 883 00:54:30,130 --> 00:54:32,680 So that's another thing that's really important to work on 884 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,160 and I know we did a little thing with rhythm with Eugene 885 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,682 last time. 886 00:54:35,682 --> 00:54:37,848 AUDIENCE: So are we doing an accompaniment solo type 887 00:54:37,848 --> 00:54:39,348 thing or more like a conversational? 888 00:54:39,348 --> 00:54:41,848 TIM RAY: I think we should try doing like a conversational-- 889 00:54:41,848 --> 00:54:43,400 GREG HOPKINS: Conversation. 890 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,440 So nobody's really comping, you're 891 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,650 all playing your own ideas. 892 00:54:50,650 --> 00:54:53,665 I'm leaving space for other people's ideas. 893 00:54:53,665 --> 00:54:54,290 TIM RAY: Right. 894 00:54:54,290 --> 00:54:58,120 So what we'll do is maybe have you guys play. 895 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,250 You're all improvising again, leaving space, conversing. 896 00:55:02,250 --> 00:55:04,570 I'll do a baseline for 12 bars and then I'll drop 897 00:55:04,570 --> 00:55:06,120 and you guys keep going. 898 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,220 OK? 899 00:55:08,220 --> 00:55:09,515 So this will be improv. 900 00:55:09,515 --> 00:55:10,890 We're not going to do the melody, 901 00:55:10,890 --> 00:55:13,940 just starting right with the improv. 902 00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:16,120 Feel free to throw in some motivic stuff, some 903 00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,160 of the things Greg was talking about in terms of the scales, 904 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:24,150 obviously G minor scale can figure prominently in this. 905 00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:25,070 OK, so here we go. 906 00:55:25,070 --> 00:55:26,575 Right at the top of the improv. 907 00:55:26,575 --> 00:55:30,305 One, a two, a one, two, three-- 908 00:56:13,350 --> 00:56:14,330 GREG HOPKINS: One more? 909 00:56:14,330 --> 00:56:15,310 One more. 910 00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:39,190 Not bad. 911 00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:40,610 That was good. 912 00:56:40,610 --> 00:56:41,680 TIM RAY: That was good. 913 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,990 Everybody feel where the time was, right? 914 00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:46,620 Felt pretty secure to me. 915 00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:49,934 And then listening, really nice. 916 00:56:49,934 --> 00:56:51,600 One of the motifs we haven't touched on, 917 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,465 which is the quarter note triplets, right? 918 00:56:53,465 --> 00:56:55,040 Quarter note triplets are tricky, 919 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,240 because that's against the feeling of duple. 920 00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:00,410 Against the feeling of two and four, 921 00:57:00,410 --> 00:57:03,939 which is-- any song in four four, 922 00:57:03,939 --> 00:57:05,730 most songs tend to spend most of their time 923 00:57:05,730 --> 00:57:08,530 either quarter notes, eight notes. 924 00:57:08,530 --> 00:57:12,020 Any kind of triplet feeling is sort of against that. 925 00:57:12,020 --> 00:57:13,550 So when there's not accompaniment, 926 00:57:13,550 --> 00:57:15,217 you have to be really careful to-- 927 00:57:15,217 --> 00:57:17,800 I mean I'm not saying don't play them, I think they're great-- 928 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,581 but just be really careful to articulate where your landing 929 00:57:21,581 --> 00:57:22,080 them. 930 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,460 Because that's usually the thing that gets rushed or dragged 931 00:57:25,460 --> 00:57:26,867 and that sometimes can send you-- 932 00:57:26,867 --> 00:57:29,450 GREG HOPKINS: And sometimes if somebody's playing quarter note 933 00:57:29,450 --> 00:57:31,825 triplets, maybe the other person would play quarter notes 934 00:57:31,825 --> 00:57:33,890 against that. 935 00:57:33,890 --> 00:57:36,490 Just to be obstinate, or to have that counterpoint 936 00:57:36,490 --> 00:57:40,410 so I can tell that they're really triplets. 937 00:57:40,410 --> 00:57:47,320 I mean, sometimes you don't want to use mimicry too much. 938 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,400 If somebody plays an idea, don't just play the same idea back. 939 00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,160 Play something different. 940 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,010 If I say hello, you don't say hello. 941 00:57:57,010 --> 00:57:58,110 Well, I guess you do. 942 00:58:00,870 --> 00:58:01,900 What's your name? 943 00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:04,190 What's your name? 944 00:58:04,190 --> 00:58:07,830 Yeah, you have to have an answer. 945 00:58:07,830 --> 00:58:11,280 So let's do a flute, guitar, and violin. 946 00:58:15,345 --> 00:58:16,720 TIM RAY: We'll do the same thing. 947 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,970 I'll start off with the baseline and then I'll drop out. 948 00:58:20,970 --> 00:58:22,650 But you guys keep going. 949 00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:23,870 OK, here we go. 950 00:58:23,870 --> 00:58:27,610 One, a two, a one, two, three, four-- 951 00:59:36,134 --> 00:59:37,800 GREG HOPKINS: Not bad, yeah it was good. 952 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,480 TIM RAY: OK, nice. 953 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,430 So-- oh no, go ahead. 954 00:59:42,430 --> 00:59:46,200 GREG HOPKINS: Same as before, nice use of the motifs. 955 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,260 Sometimes I'll just play the melody. 956 00:59:48,260 --> 00:59:50,360 And Tim and Eugene will play around it, 957 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,567 and sometimes Tim will quote some of the melody. 958 00:59:52,567 --> 00:59:53,650 TIM RAY: Yeah, absolutely. 959 00:59:57,550 --> 00:59:59,330 A couple things to just be careful of, 960 00:59:59,330 --> 01:00:02,060 I know you guys are, to some degree, 961 01:00:02,060 --> 01:00:03,500 kind of hanging on to the rhythm. 962 01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:05,300 I know, which is, of course, what we all 963 01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:06,610 do in this situation. 964 01:00:06,610 --> 01:00:09,880 You're like, sometimes you're kind of white 965 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:14,890 knuckling the beats instead of just kind of letting it flow. 966 01:00:14,890 --> 01:00:17,280 And I think sometimes when that happens, 967 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,900 you start to lose a little bit of linear flow. 968 01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:23,940 I felt like there was a lot of root improvisation based 969 01:00:23,940 --> 01:00:24,930 on the roots going on. 970 01:00:24,930 --> 01:00:26,470 GREG HOPKINS: It was a little block style. 971 01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:27,344 TIM RAY: Yeah, right. 972 01:00:27,344 --> 01:00:30,160 And again, it's not to say that if you did it again 973 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,350 you might do something entirely different. 974 01:00:32,350 --> 01:00:36,840 But it's just one thing to be aware of, right? 975 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,880 And this is one of these situations where you try it 976 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,620 again and you say, OK I'm going to not 977 01:00:42,620 --> 01:00:44,120 focus on the root so much I'm going 978 01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,480 to try to do more linear stuff, more scales. 979 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,850 Maybe focus on the third or the fifth, or just, like I said, 980 01:00:50,850 --> 01:00:56,600 be a little bit more free with what you're doing. 981 01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,180 So, again it's nice stuff. 982 01:01:00,180 --> 01:01:04,040 GREG HOPKINS: Let's do flute and piano, 983 01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:05,210 and you get another chance. 984 01:01:08,909 --> 01:01:09,700 TIM RAY: All right. 985 01:01:09,700 --> 01:01:12,060 Same thing. 986 01:01:12,060 --> 01:01:14,820 One, two, a one, two, three, four-- 987 01:02:20,719 --> 01:02:21,510 GREG HOPKINS: Bang! 988 01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:25,640 OK, you stopped before the end. 989 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:26,980 We're still playing the fourth. 990 01:02:26,980 --> 01:02:30,092 We're still playing 12 bar forms, right? 991 01:02:30,092 --> 01:02:31,300 Did they stop before the end? 992 01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:32,281 TIM RAY: Yeah , we-- 993 01:02:32,281 --> 01:02:34,780 GREG HOPKINS: Or maybe it was just really good use of space. 994 01:02:34,780 --> 01:02:36,160 TIM RAY: Yeah. 995 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,185 It's either that or you owe us three measures. 996 01:02:38,185 --> 01:02:39,210 I don't know. 997 01:02:39,210 --> 01:02:41,537 We'll come back and collect next year. 998 01:02:41,537 --> 01:02:43,120 GREG HOPKINS: Let me show you-- here's 999 01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:44,440 an interesting way to practice. 1000 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,020 This is going to be a revolving trio. 1001 01:02:48,020 --> 01:02:50,529 I'm going to start with you three, OK. 1002 01:02:50,529 --> 01:02:52,820 Then you're going to drop out, you're going to join in, 1003 01:02:52,820 --> 01:02:54,482 and then you're going to drop out, 1004 01:02:54,482 --> 01:02:55,690 then you're going to join in. 1005 01:02:55,690 --> 01:03:00,580 Then you're going to-- whatever three people. 1006 01:03:00,580 --> 01:03:01,350 And no base line. 1007 01:03:01,350 --> 01:03:04,350 A one, two, a one, two, three, four-- 1008 01:06:22,030 --> 01:06:23,170 OK. 1009 01:06:23,170 --> 01:06:24,310 TIM RAY: Yeah, all right. 1010 01:06:24,310 --> 01:06:24,840 GREG HOPKINS: To you? 1011 01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:25,340 Yeah. 1012 01:06:27,606 --> 01:06:30,230 It's a nice way to practice and then you don't-- everyone's not 1013 01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:32,604 jamming in your ear, and again you're setting parameters. 1014 01:06:32,604 --> 01:06:35,360 We're going to have three people playing or two people playing. 1015 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:36,500 TIM RAY: Yeah. 1016 01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:38,080 Yeah, you guys are doing a great job. 1017 01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:39,375 I mean, I can tell-- 1018 01:06:39,375 --> 01:06:42,000 GREG HOPKINS: You're keeping the form and your ideas are clear. 1019 01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:45,900 TIM RAY: Very nice. 1020 01:06:45,900 --> 01:06:48,930 And again, hearing some of the motifs come into play, 1021 01:06:48,930 --> 01:06:50,065 that's very cool. 1022 01:06:50,065 --> 01:06:51,190 GREG HOPKINS: I'm thrilled. 1023 01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:52,350 TIM RAY: Yeah, I-- 1024 01:06:52,350 --> 01:06:54,475 GREG HOPKINS: [? Karagassian ?] will be very happy. 1025 01:06:54,475 --> 01:06:56,599 TIM RAY: I know we're getting close to out of time. 1026 01:06:56,599 --> 01:06:58,560 Are there any questions about some 1027 01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,919 of this stuff we've been talking about, scales, modes? 1028 01:07:02,919 --> 01:07:05,085 GREG HOPKINS: I need to stress what Tim said before. 1029 01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:10,820 Melodies and harmonies are fine, but the most important thing 1030 01:07:10,820 --> 01:07:13,180 in this music is rhythm. 1031 01:07:13,180 --> 01:07:14,760 Rhythm. 1032 01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:16,120 Rhythm. 1033 01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,210 It's like location in real estate. 1034 01:07:19,210 --> 01:07:20,080 Rhythm. 1035 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:20,580 Rhythm. 1036 01:07:20,580 --> 01:07:22,600 You could play any note, it doesn't matter, 1037 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:28,990 if it's in the right time and it swings, people will buy it. 1038 01:07:28,990 --> 01:07:29,932 TIM RAY: That's true. 1039 01:07:29,932 --> 01:07:31,390 GREG HOPKINS: It's absolutely true. 1040 01:07:31,390 --> 01:07:33,920 It's a rhythmic art form. 1041 01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:35,215 Came from dancing. 1042 01:07:38,570 --> 01:07:40,530 TIM RAY: Yeah, that's true. 1043 01:07:40,530 --> 01:07:43,980 GREG HOPKINS: I do an analogy my class. 1044 01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:45,990 Let me just get to the board right behind you 1045 01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:48,820 for one second. 1046 01:07:48,820 --> 01:07:51,850 Chalk, mighty chalk. 1047 01:07:51,850 --> 01:07:52,380 Harmony. 1048 01:07:52,380 --> 01:07:54,130 We study all this harmony. 1049 01:07:54,130 --> 01:07:56,145 I'm going to give it an H that big. 1050 01:07:56,145 --> 01:07:59,730 But I'm a melody guy, so melody is more important. 1051 01:07:59,730 --> 01:08:06,390 But rhythm is-- and actually it should 1052 01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:08,780 go to the top of the building to under the basement, 1053 01:08:08,780 --> 01:08:12,514 and make an R out to Mass Ave and back. 1054 01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:17,149 TIM RAY: Very cool, thank you. 1055 01:08:17,149 --> 01:08:19,270 That's-- I would agree with the that. 1056 01:08:19,270 --> 01:08:22,290 GREG HOPKINS: Rhythm is-- 1057 01:08:22,290 --> 01:08:23,970 TIM RAY: So work on rhythm. 1058 01:08:23,970 --> 01:08:27,590 GREG HOPKINS: Sometimes I just play one note. 1059 01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:28,569 TIM RAY: Yeah, I know. 1060 01:08:28,569 --> 01:08:30,527 GREG HOPKINS: Let's play a minimalistic chorus, 1061 01:08:30,527 --> 01:08:31,450 just me and you. 1062 01:08:31,450 --> 01:08:32,260 TIM RAY: OK. 1063 01:08:32,260 --> 01:09:21,454 GREG HOPKINS: Two, a one, two, three-- Yeah, 1064 01:09:21,454 --> 01:09:23,370 so we left a lot of space, but when we came in 1065 01:09:23,370 --> 01:09:28,170 with the rhythms, they were very strong that time. 1066 01:09:28,170 --> 01:09:33,350 So sometimes I think I'm playing like a melodic drummer. 1067 01:09:33,350 --> 01:09:36,270 I want to lay that melody down so people know right 1068 01:09:36,270 --> 01:09:37,819 where it is. 1069 01:09:37,819 --> 01:09:40,544 And sometimes I don't, sometimes I'll float. 1070 01:09:40,544 --> 01:09:41,420 TIM RAY: Right. 1071 01:09:41,420 --> 01:09:43,500 And I think most of the good players did that. 1072 01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:45,124 They'd float for awhile and then they'd 1073 01:09:45,124 --> 01:09:47,210 lock it in with something really specific. 1074 01:09:47,210 --> 01:09:50,830 That's one of things I work on with some of my students. 1075 01:09:50,830 --> 01:09:52,939 Play a phrase, it floats, and then play 1076 01:09:52,939 --> 01:09:54,410 something that really locks in. 1077 01:09:54,410 --> 01:09:56,951 So that you know the difference, you can hear the difference, 1078 01:09:56,951 --> 01:09:59,280 and you can feel the difference in your hands 1079 01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:04,720 as to what the different-- whatever your instrument is. 1080 01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,890 So you can feel the difference, how it affects the music 1081 01:10:07,890 --> 01:10:09,950 and how it affects your improvisation. 1082 01:10:09,950 --> 01:10:12,440 So, yeah that's another great-- there's 1083 01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:16,160 all these exercises, etudes, whatever you want to call them, 1084 01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,570 for improvisations which are great to do. 1085 01:10:18,570 --> 01:10:21,340 GREG HOPKINS: Transcribing is really good, 1086 01:10:21,340 --> 01:10:23,969 because you can't really notate jazz rhythms. 1087 01:10:23,969 --> 01:10:25,510 You can write the notes down, but you 1088 01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:27,750 can't notate how they're playing them. 1089 01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:29,780 So you've got to listen. 1090 01:10:29,780 --> 01:10:32,410 And now copy Miles' articulation, 1091 01:10:32,410 --> 01:10:35,180 or Clifford Brown's articulation, or whoever, 1092 01:10:35,180 --> 01:10:37,499 Chet Baker. 1093 01:10:37,499 --> 01:10:39,540 Because they would all play a little differently, 1094 01:10:39,540 --> 01:10:43,980 but-- it's all the tongue. 1095 01:10:43,980 --> 01:10:44,896 It's all articulation. 1096 01:10:47,899 --> 01:10:49,440 Because it's wind instruments, I mean 1097 01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:51,470 that's where a lot of the language comes from. 1098 01:10:51,470 --> 01:10:54,220 And piano. 1099 01:10:54,220 --> 01:10:56,170 TIM RAY: But even with piano or guitar, still, 1100 01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:58,980 the articulation makes all the difference. 1101 01:10:58,980 --> 01:11:01,335 You could do a whole solo just based on two notes. 1102 01:11:09,830 --> 01:11:11,120 And be somewhat interesting. 1103 01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,078 I mean, it's not going to be super interesting, 1104 01:11:13,078 --> 01:11:16,120 but just two notes with articulation and strong 1105 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,800 rhythms, you can make an interesting solo. 1106 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,110 Like I say, on any instrument. 1107 01:11:20,110 --> 01:11:22,360 I think that's true. 1108 01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,980 Drummers do it. 1109 01:11:24,980 --> 01:11:26,606 That's how they solo. 1110 01:11:26,606 --> 01:11:29,070 It's all about how they hit the thing. 1111 01:11:29,070 --> 01:11:30,930 They don't have 88 keys to play with, 1112 01:11:30,930 --> 01:11:33,325 they've just got four drums and a couple symbols. 1113 01:11:33,325 --> 01:11:35,075 GREG HOPKINS: And for the wind instruments 1114 01:11:35,075 --> 01:11:37,200 it's really just a matter of slurring and tonguing. 1115 01:11:44,274 --> 01:11:45,690 Some short notes, some long notes, 1116 01:11:45,690 --> 01:11:47,065 some slurred notes in the middle. 1117 01:11:55,345 --> 01:11:56,720 You've got to tongue but it can't 1118 01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:01,700 be-- you can't tongue too hard or it 1119 01:12:01,700 --> 01:12:04,920 sounds too much like a classical. 1120 01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,120 It's got to have the funkiness and looseness of the swing. 1121 01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:14,130 So yeah, working on your articulation is very important. 1122 01:12:14,130 --> 01:12:16,775 That's what we do, right? 1123 01:12:16,775 --> 01:12:18,275 GUEST SPEAKER: Unfortunately I think 1124 01:12:18,275 --> 01:12:20,447 we have to wrap because it's the end of the period. 1125 01:12:20,447 --> 01:12:22,030 GREG HOPKINS: Is it 3 o'clock already? 1126 01:12:22,030 --> 01:12:23,071 GUEST SPEAKER: It's 3:30. 1127 01:12:23,071 --> 01:12:24,147 GREG HOPKINS: It's 3:30? 1128 01:12:24,147 --> 01:12:25,230 I'm going to get a ticket. 1129 01:12:28,345 --> 01:12:32,258 GUEST SPEAKER: So let's give a round of applause for Greg. 1130 01:12:32,258 --> 01:12:35,120 GREG HOPKINS: Thank you. 1131 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,449 Yeah, good play. 1132 01:12:36,449 --> 01:12:37,490 TIM RAY: Yeah, nice play. 1133 01:12:37,490 --> 01:12:38,800 GREG HOPKINS: And have no fear. 1134 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:40,190 Have no fear. 1135 01:12:40,190 --> 01:12:43,752 Play whatever you want. 1136 01:12:43,752 --> 01:12:46,160 And try and hear it.