WEBVTT

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[HAITIAN CREOLE SPEECH]:: Anpil
nan kesyon ke nou te poze nan

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kou a te baze sou biyografi
lengwistik etidyan yo.

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Li te vreman enteresan ni pou
etidyan yo ni pou mwen menm kòm

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anseyan.

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SARAH HANSEN: Today on
the podcast, what language

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teaches us about identity.

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MICHEL DEGRAFF: Can you
be Mauritian but not

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speak the Mauritian
Creole language?

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Can you be Latino but
not be fluent in Spanish?

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Can you be African
American but yet not be

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fully fluent in
so-called Black English?

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SARAH HANSEN: Welcome
to Chalk Radio,

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a podcast about inspired
teaching at MIT.

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I'm your host, Sarah Hansen,
from MIT OpenCourseWare.

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My guest for this
episode created a course

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that teaches students
about how language

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helps us see and better
understand our world.

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Michel DeGraff teaches the
course Creole Languages

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and Caribbean Identities.

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The course highlights how
linguistics can teach us

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about broader issues of
identity, history, education,

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and more.

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Throughout this
episode, we'll be

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intercutting professor
DeGraff's answers

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with his Creole translations.

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For now, we'll let him
explain more about how he

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developed this unique course.

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[HAITIAN CREOLE SPEECH]:: Rechèch
mwen se sou devlòpman avèk

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MICHEL DEGRAFF: My
research is about

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trying to understand how
languages evolve over time

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and what happens when new
languages are created.

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Say, for example, in the
Caribbean in my native Haiti,

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where the Haitian Creole emerged
in the 17th-18th century.

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So we try to understand
the patterns of development

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of the things that we
call Creole languages.

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In terms of the structure, but
also an applied side to my work

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where I try to understand
how best to use, say,

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Haitian Creole and other
local languages in education.

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And how that's crucial
for development

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of countries like Haiti.

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So the course started
out of a desire

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to try to have linguistics
be accessible to a broader

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range of students, within which
we could connect languages

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to larger issues of
culture and identity.

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And as I'm from Haiti and as my
research is Creole languages,

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I try to think of
ways in which we

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can use the history
of Creole languages

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to introduce larger issues
connected to linguistics,

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identity, history,
sociology, education.

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SARAH HANSEN: Even
though the course

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focuses on Caribbean identities
and Creole languages,

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the course requires
its students who

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come from all over the world
to observe what language

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means for their own identities.

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[HAITIAN CREOLE SPEECH]:: Se
te [?] moun Anpil yo fèt oz

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Etazini

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MICHEL DEGRAFF: Can you be
Mauritian but yet not speak

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the Mauritian Creole language?

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Can you be Latino but
not be fluent in Spanish?

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Can you be African
American but yet not be

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fully fluent in
so-called Black English?

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So those were questions that
they themselves brought in.

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Then what I ask them to do as
the very first exercise was

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to write what I called
a linguistic biography.

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And actually, I got this
hint from a dear friend

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and colleague, Professor
Anne Charity Hudley,

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and Charity actually
shared with me

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her own linguistic biography.

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When I read that, I
realized how powerful

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it was to read about her
own growing up in terms

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of language, ethnicity, race.

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So I thought that I would ask
students something similar.

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SARAH HANSEN: The connection
between language and power

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is highlighted in this course.

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A lot of what comes through in
students' language biographies

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and other assignments
touches on power structures

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and the hierarchies
that exist because

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of cultural misconceptions
tied to language and also race.

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I asked Professor DeGraff if
students brought misconceptions

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about Creole languages
to the course,

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and how he unpacked them.

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[HAITIAN CREOLE SPEECH]::
Etidyan yo,

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yo kòmanse kou a avèk yon se...

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MICHEL DEGRAFF:
So one way that we

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start by unpacking these
misconceptions is by comparing

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attitudes towards
languages with attitudes

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towards race and ethnicity.

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And what we get to
see very quickly

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is that, in fact,
there is perhaps

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as much misconceptions
about language

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as there is about race.

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So they get to see very
early in the course

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that language can be
used as a proxy for race,

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though now it's impolite to
say certain things about, say,

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black people or Asian people.

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Yet it's still polite to say
negative things about language.

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And then at that
point what we do,

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we introduce some basic
linguistic analysis

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tools for them to be
able to see that in terms

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of basic structure,
there is nothing

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at all that is inferior
about Creole languages.

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In fact, what we do
from the very beginning

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is to show that
structurally there

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are patterns both in the
syntax or morphology of Creole

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languages that are quite
similar to patterns

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in the syntax and history
of English, of French,

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of Mandarin Chinese.

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So they quickly get a sense that
empirically and theoretically,

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one cannot argue that Creole
languages are any way lesser

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than non-Creole languages,
the same way that there are no

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biological measures that
would deem black people to be

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inferior to white people.

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So they get very
quick to understand

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the power of this myth
that often they themselves

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have brought along
in terms of how

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they view different languages.

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In some cases Creole
language, in other cases

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just even dialects of English.

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There is Southern
English or Black English.

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Their attitudes
are very demeaning

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towards those varieties that
have no basis in science that

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are rooted in
hierarchies of power,

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and they get to see
that very quickly.

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This course, the core
of it is discussions.

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And in order for the
course to be successful,

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we have to be able to discuss
very delicate personal issues

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in a very safe way
and to be honest.

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It cannot be that students
are afraid to reveal

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their positions on various
topics including race,

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language, identity.

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And one way to do
it is to, given

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that I had at the very
beginning of the course--

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I had the questionnaires
about where they came from,

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what languages they spoke,
where they grew up--

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I was able to use that
to trigger discussions.

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So if we read a text about
authenticity, for example.

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If an African-- can you
be an authentic writer

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if you write in
English, for example?

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I knew that some of the students
had dealt with this issue.

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For example, we
had a student who,

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although she was
black and Hispanic,

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she wasn't very
fluent in Spanish.

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And she wasn't clear whether
her not being fluent in Spanish

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made her any less Hispanic.

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You see?

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So I was able to use that, in
order to trigger a discussion

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around this notion that we
had read in this famous debate

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between Chinua Achebe and
Ngugi wa Thiong'o about African

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writers.

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Can a writer be
authentically African

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if they write in English,
or French for that matter?

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So that was one way to
trigger rich discussion.

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So the motive there was
which discussions are best

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arrived at if we start
from a personal basis

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where students are invested in
trying to find an answer that

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can work for them in
their personal lives or in

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the life of their families,
their communities,

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their countries, et cetera.

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SARAH HANSEN: Another
special feature

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of Professor DeGraff's
course on OCW

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is that his Instructor Insights
are available in both English

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and Haitian Creole.

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I asked him why it was important
that he share in both languages

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how the course was taught.

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[HAITIAN CREOLE SPEECH]:: Pou
mwen, se te vreman enpòtan

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MICHEL DEGRAFF:
So it was very, I

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would say, crucial, for me to do
this interview in both English

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and Creole, because I see
Creole languages, even

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in the case of Haiti, or
especially because of Haiti,

00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:58.700 align:middle line:84%
as a particular revealing
and clear test tube or case

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study to really show
how language can

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be such a powerful tool,
either for domination

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or for resistance.

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Either for oppression
or for development.

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So I would love teachers
who look at the course

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to see how they can adapt
the content in order

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to address similar issues
in their own community,

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because I think that
what you see happening

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in the case of Creole languages
also happens in the US,

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happens in Europe, in
Latin America, in Africa--

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where language is often used as
this technology for domination

00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:33.950 align:middle line:90%
or resistance.

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And I think this course gives
some basic analytical tools

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to be able to analyze
these patterns.

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And for me, it's
also very important

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that teachers in Haiti and
students in Haiti including,

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say, future leaders
or policy makers,

00:08:49.850 --> 00:08:53.420 align:middle line:84%
get to understand the
discourse and the readings

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and to understand that
Haiti could do so much

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better if teachers,
students, leaders,

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had this awareness of how their
own attitudes towards Creole

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versus French have played
over centuries in keeping

00:09:07.490 --> 00:09:08.630 align:middle line:90%
the country underdeveloped.

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And if they could get a
better sense of the importance

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of language in education
and development,

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then I think the country
would do so much better.

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And for me, it's
a key bottleneck

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that we have to go
past in order to really

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be able to develop a nation--
is to be able to understand

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the history and the
nature of your national--

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your ancestral language-- and
to be able to use it in a more

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systematic and productive way.

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If you cannot do that, there's
no way that you can develop

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a whole nation that
speaks that language.

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What the students
get to understand

00:09:39.950 --> 00:09:42.440 align:middle line:84%
at the end of the
course is that we all

00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.140 align:middle line:84%
hold dear certain
attitudes about language.

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And some of these attitudes
are positive for ourselves

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and for others, but oftentimes--
and this is actually

00:09:49.687 --> 00:09:52.270 align:middle line:84%
one of the major issues that we
discuss throughout the course,

00:09:52.270 --> 00:09:54.140 align:middle line:84%
is that sometimes
we have attitudes

00:09:54.140 --> 00:09:57.890 align:middle line:84%
that have a negative impact,
severe negative impact,

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on the lives of other people.

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The lives of, sometimes,
entire communities and nations.

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So I hope throughout that
students can actually

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take the theory that
is in the course

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and see ways in which
they can apply it

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to themselves, to
their communities,

00:10:11.780 --> 00:10:13.100 align:middle line:90%
to their countries.

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So some in the
course of this class

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have applied what
they've learned,

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and taking it outside, including
volunteering in, say, there

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is a dual language program
that's just started in Boston.

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It's a joint language
program promoting

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the use of both
Creole and English,

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and where students are
immersed from kindergarten

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in both Creole and English.

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And now there's a student
within the class, my class,

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who's volunteering in that
classroom for kindergartners

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who are learning in
Creole and in English.

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And to me, that's a--

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it's a dream, because
it's one case where

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what you learn in the course
can be directly applied

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in the real world context, which
can make actual positive change

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in the life of these children.

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00:11:03.443 --> 00:11:05.860 align:middle line:84%
SARAH HANSEN: Professor DeGraff
shares additional thoughts

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on teaching Creole
languages and Caribbean

00:11:07.930 --> 00:11:09.970 align:middle line:84%
identities within the
instructor insight

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section of his OCW course.

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You can find these
dual language videos,

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along with his openly
licensed teaching materials,

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at ocw.mit.edu.

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And if you use these materials
in your own teaching,

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we'd love to hear about it.

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Use the contact link in the
show notes to share your story.

00:11:28.060 --> 00:11:33.690 align:middle line:84%
Until next time, I'm Sarah
Hansen from MIT OpenCourseWare.

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