WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.520 The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:03.970 Commons license. 00:00:03.970 --> 00:00:06.360 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:10.660 continue to offer high-quality educational resources for free. 00:00:10.660 --> 00:00:13.350 To make a donation or view additional materials 00:00:13.350 --> 00:00:17.190 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:17.190 --> 00:00:18.326 at ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:28.470 --> 00:00:34.230 JULIAN BEINART: Anyway, I'd better 00:00:34.230 --> 00:00:38.700 abbreviate all this stuff that I want to cover today. 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:43.410 The next three classes are going to cover 00:00:43.410 --> 00:00:55.500 cases of very complex, but very direct, 00:00:55.500 --> 00:01:02.100 relationships between social and spatial structure. 00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:09.420 There is a literature largely from the left side 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:13.680 of the market on these issues. 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:18.190 I don't have time to go through much of this here. 00:01:20.970 --> 00:01:23.430 You should read the required reading 00:01:23.430 --> 00:01:26.130 for this class, Kevin Lynch's piece-- 00:01:26.130 --> 00:01:30.540 chapter on social and spatial structure relationships. 00:01:34.190 --> 00:01:48.430 On the left, I would assume the argument-- 00:01:48.430 --> 00:01:55.630 that space is an active agent, that it involves conflict, 00:01:55.630 --> 00:01:57.910 that it's political-- 00:01:57.910 --> 00:02:02.020 and this is an argument that is articulated very well 00:02:02.020 --> 00:02:05.980 by Henri Lefebvre in the translation of his writing 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:08.229 into English. 00:02:08.229 --> 00:02:12.460 David Harvey's first book, Social Justice In The City, 00:02:12.460 --> 00:02:19.180 argues that, under capitalism, investment will never 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:24.040 stream towards the poorer sections of the society, 00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:29.920 because capitalism has so many circuits of investment. 00:02:29.920 --> 00:02:32.260 An object of capitalist investment 00:02:32.260 --> 00:02:35.680 is always maximizing profit. 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:41.020 There are less attractive writings 00:02:41.020 --> 00:02:51.330 by Manuel Castells in his pre-Berkeley stage, the book, 00:02:51.330 --> 00:02:57.390 The Urban Question, and so on, and so on. 00:02:57.390 --> 00:03:03.480 There's David Gordon's writing about the origins 00:03:03.480 --> 00:03:07.980 of American suburbia as being the result of labor 00:03:07.980 --> 00:03:10.470 friction in the central business area, 00:03:10.470 --> 00:03:14.850 and the bosses wanting to move as far away from the workers as 00:03:14.850 --> 00:03:16.140 possible. 00:03:16.140 --> 00:03:18.990 And there are many histories of this kind. 00:03:18.990 --> 00:03:22.170 Castells' piece, The Wild City, which 00:03:22.170 --> 00:03:27.090 argues that suburbia is a form of advanced capitalist 00:03:27.090 --> 00:03:34.690 investment in which you have to create markets 00:03:34.690 --> 00:03:41.200 for prolific domestic goods, and suburbia 00:03:41.200 --> 00:03:44.680 is an attractive avenue for this kind of market. 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.025 His writing is called The Wild City. 00:03:47.025 --> 00:03:50.920 He claims the American city wild in the sense 00:03:50.920 --> 00:03:58.630 that it obeys the consequences of market action 00:03:58.630 --> 00:04:04.430 in a very obvious kind of way. 00:04:04.430 --> 00:04:09.250 It's not hidden or transformed. 00:04:09.250 --> 00:04:12.010 There's an enormous amount of writing. 00:04:12.010 --> 00:04:18.550 There's this writing and from the center and the right. 00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:21.190 In Sunday's New York Times, there's 00:04:21.190 --> 00:04:27.340 a piece called "Suburban Disequilibrium." 00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:31.945 I don't know if anybody looks at these things. 00:04:31.945 --> 00:04:37.800 It simply says that suburbs are an equal, something 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:42.890 that one would presume to know. 00:04:42.890 --> 00:04:46.400 And the reason suburbs are unequal are given, 00:04:46.400 --> 00:04:48.650 and they haven't changed-- 00:04:48.650 --> 00:04:50.900 and not much has changed. 00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:55.460 She cites examples of suburbs close together 00:04:55.460 --> 00:05:00.986 in Los Angeles, where one house sells for $68 million. 00:05:00.986 --> 00:05:03.605 And a few miles away, there's a suburb 00:05:03.605 --> 00:05:07.580 of Mexican-American workers who can barely 00:05:07.580 --> 00:05:08.915 afford to buy their house. 00:05:12.650 --> 00:05:17.390 In teaching this material, I found over the years 00:05:17.390 --> 00:05:29.240 that the material is very much stretched to large ideas 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:34.100 about economic science and social policy. 00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:39.440 There's very little discussion of the meaning of place. 00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:45.650 Donald Appleyard has written about that and some others-- 00:05:45.650 --> 00:05:51.330 what place means, what space means to people, and so on. 00:05:51.330 --> 00:05:55.040 So I've decided to follow a different route 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:59.000 in dealing with this. 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:07.280 I've established a notion called "bipolarity" 00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:16.220 and chosen cases where the conflict between various groups 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:27.090 in the city is very explicit and under different conditions. 00:06:27.090 --> 00:06:36.390 So we will examine Johannesburg from its origins in 1876, 00:06:36.390 --> 00:06:45.210 I think, to today, following a path of explicit racial policy. 00:06:45.210 --> 00:06:52.070 South Africa invented or formalized racial policy 00:06:52.070 --> 00:06:55.700 to an extent that no other country and no other state 00:06:55.700 --> 00:06:57.950 in the world ever has. 00:06:57.950 --> 00:06:59.960 So we should look at Johannesburg and what 00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:03.320 this space of Johannesburg looks like as a result 00:07:03.320 --> 00:07:07.760 of the enforcement of absolute inequities between White 00:07:07.760 --> 00:07:10.040 and Black. 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:13.390 We should look at the colonial city. 00:07:13.390 --> 00:07:16.760 We look at Delhi and New Delhi. 00:07:16.760 --> 00:07:22.430 We look at the border between Mexico and the United States 00:07:22.430 --> 00:07:30.890 and look at the polarity between country and city 00:07:30.890 --> 00:07:32.765 in the development of Havana. 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:42.020 Today's class is really dealing with the mother 00:07:42.020 --> 00:07:47.120 of all social complexities, and that's Jerusalem. 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.310 I want to do a case study on Jerusalem. 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:54.020 And just for those of you who haven't read the required 00:07:54.020 --> 00:07:56.220 reading for today-- 00:07:56.220 --> 00:08:00.290 which is a long piece which I wrote after months of work, 00:08:00.290 --> 00:08:02.810 and I'm so sad that you haven't read it-- 00:08:08.530 --> 00:08:11.470 I'll go through the very-- 00:08:11.470 --> 00:08:15.520 let me just explain what I've handed out to you. 00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:18.460 After this, the map of the history 00:08:18.460 --> 00:08:23.200 of Jerusalem, a simplified history, on the next page 00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:23.785 is a drawing. 00:08:26.500 --> 00:08:31.620 It's a drawing on a napkin by the head of the planning 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:36.330 section of MOPIC, the Palestinian organization 00:08:36.330 --> 00:08:41.280 after the Oslo Accords, which I worked with for a while. 00:08:41.280 --> 00:08:44.880 This was the depiction of the future of Jerusalem-- 00:08:44.880 --> 00:08:51.210 as one metropolitan area with the Jewish sect on the West, 00:08:51.210 --> 00:08:55.050 and the Palestinian sect on the right, 00:08:55.050 --> 00:08:58.380 and the historic center in the middle. 00:08:58.380 --> 00:09:07.250 Below that is a letter, which is obvious, 00:09:07.250 --> 00:09:11.810 pointing out the stupidity of some 00:09:11.810 --> 00:09:14.370 of the writing on this issue. 00:09:14.370 --> 00:09:19.160 So what I'm going to do is try to take you 00:09:19.160 --> 00:09:24.560 through a history, which starts off 00:09:24.560 --> 00:09:28.010 as a history, for a long time, a history 00:09:28.010 --> 00:09:35.990 of religious consequence, and transforms much later 00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:40.040 and in recent times, certainly in this century, 00:09:40.040 --> 00:09:44.540 into a geopolitical conflict. 00:09:44.540 --> 00:09:47.255 And we end up with the status quo. 00:09:51.680 --> 00:09:56.720 Let's follow this map very briefly. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:05.700 The origins of Jerusalem are, again, political. 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:11.280 For Palestinians, it talks about the Jebusites, 00:10:11.280 --> 00:10:16.440 and the Canaanites, and the origins of the city 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:22.800 prior to 1,000 BC, which is the date 00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:30.690 that the Davidian City, the City of David, argues its beginning. 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:38.150 David captures Jerusalem, according to this. 00:10:38.150 --> 00:10:42.760 This is an Israeli map. 00:10:42.760 --> 00:10:48.190 According to the Israeli history, 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:52.750 David bought the threshing fields on the Temple Mount 00:10:52.750 --> 00:10:57.610 from the Jebusites for 15 shekels, the equivalent 00:10:57.610 --> 00:11:00.310 amount of money. 00:11:00.310 --> 00:11:08.560 And in order to unify the spread out of Jewish tribes, 00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:10.970 he built the first-- 00:11:10.970 --> 00:11:16.660 he was a lover, and a poet, and a general, 00:11:16.660 --> 00:11:20.170 and according to strict Hebrew law, 00:11:20.170 --> 00:11:23.690 was not able to build a temple. 00:11:23.690 --> 00:11:29.110 So his son, Solomon, was the author of the first temple. 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:32.780 I'll show you a drawing, by Corbusier 00:11:32.780 --> 00:11:44.050 of the tribal environment, which the Jews, and most people, 00:11:44.050 --> 00:11:46.750 established at the time. 00:11:46.750 --> 00:11:54.550 And the drawing shows the temple as the first physical presence 00:11:54.550 --> 00:11:55.195 in a city. 00:11:58.140 --> 00:12:00.960 Seeing that the religious city for a long time 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:04.680 just depended on a religious infrastructure, 00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:06.795 it's clear that the first temple-- 00:12:10.870 --> 00:12:21.910 this temple exists for about 500 years, during which time 00:12:21.910 --> 00:12:27.920 the Middle East undergoes sieges and invasions. 00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:32.650 The most significant invasion is by Nebuchadnezzar 00:12:32.650 --> 00:12:35.860 in the 6th Century. 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:39.490 This has enormous consequences historically, 00:12:39.490 --> 00:12:44.380 and I tend to exaggerate some of them. 00:12:44.380 --> 00:12:49.270 Nebuchadnezzar came from the world's greatest city 00:12:49.270 --> 00:12:56.320 at the time, Babylon, the most advanced city of all. 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.250 Instead of killing the Jews, he took them back with him 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:05.560 as prisoners and allowed the Jews to establish themselves 00:13:05.560 --> 00:13:09.340 in Babylon in a relatively free manner. 00:13:09.340 --> 00:13:12.160 Why he did that, which was very contrary 00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:21.010 to social international behavior at the time, I don't know. 00:13:21.010 --> 00:13:26.140 What happened was significant for the Jews. 00:13:26.140 --> 00:13:29.200 Not having a temple, not having priests, 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:32.140 you must understand the organization 00:13:32.140 --> 00:13:35.480 of the social structure around the temple. 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.540 The temple was run by priests. 00:13:38.540 --> 00:13:42.610 There was no democracy in religion. 00:13:42.610 --> 00:13:46.300 You took what the priests gave you, 00:13:46.300 --> 00:13:53.350 and the priests were monitors of the Holy of the Holies. 00:13:53.350 --> 00:13:57.190 If you look at the plans putated for the first temple, 00:13:57.190 --> 00:14:01.030 you will see that structure. 00:14:01.030 --> 00:14:04.720 The Jews didn't have temples. 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.000 They either had to give up their religion 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:12.100 or convert to some other pagan religion. 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:24.790 Having been the first monoethicists of all, having-- 00:14:24.790 --> 00:14:27.850 monotheism was founded in Jerusalem. 00:14:27.850 --> 00:14:30.280 Nobody quite knows how. 00:14:30.280 --> 00:14:34.000 But the idea that many gods were dysfunctional, 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:38.320 and that the single God, an invisible single God, 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:46.230 was the proper course for religious faith. 00:14:46.230 --> 00:14:50.870 So the Jews prayed in houses and in schools-- 00:14:50.870 --> 00:14:53.520 wherever they could. 00:14:53.520 --> 00:14:57.815 This type substitution was an extraordinary idea. 00:15:00.410 --> 00:15:05.720 In the history of the Church, I found a reference 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:07.700 to saying that this was the beginning 00:15:07.700 --> 00:15:15.710 of the idea of the church free of the rule 00:15:15.710 --> 00:15:21.140 of plutocratic priests. 00:15:21.140 --> 00:15:24.170 People could indulge in a critical examination 00:15:24.170 --> 00:15:29.670 of their faith together as a group. 00:15:29.670 --> 00:15:32.390 In fact, the conflict towards the end 00:15:32.390 --> 00:15:37.340 of the Jewish reign in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:40.910 was very much a conflict between the priests 00:15:40.910 --> 00:15:45.410 of the Second Temple and the Pharisees, 00:15:45.410 --> 00:15:46.850 who were advocating-- 00:15:46.850 --> 00:15:49.790 beginning to advocate the democratic religion 00:15:49.790 --> 00:15:52.430 in the form of the synagogue. 00:15:52.430 --> 00:15:56.810 So the synagogue emerges in primitive form 00:15:56.810 --> 00:16:00.930 in the exile of a Jewish group from the temple. 00:16:05.930 --> 00:16:07.970 There's a second phenomenon which 00:16:07.970 --> 00:16:10.970 occurs during this period. 00:16:10.970 --> 00:16:13.790 In the Judeo-Christian Bible, there 00:16:13.790 --> 00:16:17.480 are seven chapters devoted to Ezekiel. 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.210 Who was Ezekiel? 00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:24.432 What role did he play in the-- 00:16:24.432 --> 00:16:25.640 you should know these things. 00:16:25.640 --> 00:16:31.160 You all are Christians, or Muslims, 00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:34.250 or any other form of religion. 00:16:34.250 --> 00:16:38.240 You know nothing about your own religion? 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:46.030 Maybe you're all pagans, which would be refreshing, I suppose. 00:16:46.030 --> 00:16:48.880 AUDIENCE: He was a Catholic? 00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:54.740 JULIAN BEINART: Well, Ezekiel had a dream. 00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:55.600 He was a prophet. 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:59.830 He had a dream that God and he encountered each other, 00:16:59.830 --> 00:17:05.109 and he had instructions to devise a new temple. 00:17:05.109 --> 00:17:11.619 There are six chapters in your Bible on Ezekiel's dimensions 00:17:11.619 --> 00:17:17.380 for this new temple. 00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:22.690 Imagine dreaming of a temple when you're in exile 00:17:22.690 --> 00:17:27.910 and designing it in your mind as a text. 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:31.720 Anyway, strange things happen. 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:36.160 Ezekiel's temple, as I'll show you in the slides, 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:41.510 has been redrawn and reimagined from these dimensions 00:17:41.510 --> 00:17:42.175 over time. 00:17:44.740 --> 00:17:48.220 The Jews return, and the third significance 00:17:48.220 --> 00:17:57.400 of the stay in Babylon, the Jewish Talmud, 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.190 the Book of Laws, has two versions, 00:18:01.190 --> 00:18:03.010 the Palestinian version-- 00:18:03.010 --> 00:18:06.820 at least the Jerusalem version and the Babylonian version. 00:18:06.820 --> 00:18:09.160 The Babylonian version is considered 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:13.520 to be the preferred version. 00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:17.920 So the Jews in exile established a culture, 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:22.510 which they brought back to Jerusalem having been freed, 00:18:22.510 --> 00:18:26.170 and Israel read the Bible to the people for the first time. 00:18:26.170 --> 00:18:28.575 And according to the text, they wept. 00:18:31.780 --> 00:18:34.450 So the beginning of the idea that religion 00:18:34.450 --> 00:18:40.690 is a democratic phenomenon is my explanation 00:18:40.690 --> 00:18:43.870 for the problem of Jesus. 00:18:43.870 --> 00:18:48.700 I've a rather eccentric version of the story. 00:18:48.700 --> 00:18:54.490 What happened is we jump 500 years, 00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:58.600 and Herod goes and rebuilds the temple. 00:18:58.600 --> 00:19:01.255 He builds an enormous temple-- bigger than before. 00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:09.480 The priests, again, are in control. 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.530 They control power. 00:19:15.530 --> 00:19:19.640 They control the artifact of religion. 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:21.230 They control property. 00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:23.315 They control everything in the city. 00:19:26.510 --> 00:19:30.980 Along comes a Jew, a radical Jew-- 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:33.440 has another vision of the world. 00:19:38.010 --> 00:19:42.490 Jesus doesn't threaten the Romans very much. 00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:46.740 The Romans are used to dealing with whatever in the empire, 00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:48.010 with infidels. 00:19:48.010 --> 00:19:52.530 They just lock them up or cut their heads off-- 00:19:52.530 --> 00:19:55.600 very explicit rules. 00:19:55.600 --> 00:20:00.570 [INAUDIBLE] in a rather difficult situation. 00:20:00.570 --> 00:20:09.010 The priests are more threatened by Jesus than other Romans. 00:20:09.010 --> 00:20:13.540 The priests, therefore, connive with the Romans 00:20:13.540 --> 00:20:16.930 to execute Jesus. 00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:21.760 The notion of execution of your son 00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:26.620 occurs in the Judeo-Christian Bible before, and although it 00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:30.610 wasn't legal, the idea of passing your son 00:20:30.610 --> 00:20:37.630 on as a gift, the use of blood. 00:20:37.630 --> 00:20:41.490 22,000 oxen were killed in the dedication 00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:42.645 of the Temple of Solomon. 00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:50.610 The whole idea of giving something to God as a gift-- 00:20:50.610 --> 00:20:56.580 if you were poor, you brought a chicken to the temple 00:20:56.580 --> 00:20:58.530 to the priest. 00:20:58.530 --> 00:21:02.550 If you were wealthy, you brought a cow, an ox. 00:21:02.550 --> 00:21:05.010 If you were very wealthy, good Lord knows, 00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:07.230 you donated your son. 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:11.460 The story of Abraham and Isaac is that same version 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:15.630 of that gift giving. 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:19.200 The supreme gift is the gift of your son. 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.580 And the Jesus story is archetypally 00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:31.290 the story of God donating his son, again, 00:21:31.290 --> 00:21:35.160 for the improvement of the world. 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:41.640 Christianity is based on many mythical stories, which 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.340 emanated from the history of Jerusalem, 00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:48.025 and is the second monotheistic religion to emerge out 00:21:48.025 --> 00:21:48.525 of the city. 00:21:57.120 --> 00:22:02.480 Muhammad is born in 570 BC. 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:07.620 He fights his battles in Mecca and Medina, 00:22:07.620 --> 00:22:11.970 spreads the idea of Islam as the third great monotheistic 00:22:11.970 --> 00:22:16.530 religion through the Arabian Peninsula, 00:22:16.530 --> 00:22:20.340 and soon afterwards, Jerusalem is invaded 00:22:20.340 --> 00:22:23.190 by the first Arab group. 00:22:27.730 --> 00:22:31.510 Significantly, the Christians had chosen 00:22:31.510 --> 00:22:35.890 a site for the great church. 00:22:35.890 --> 00:22:41.190 Constantine's mother, Helena, from Istanbul 00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:45.100 or Constantinople, drifted down to Jerusalem, 00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:47.860 and he's supposed to have selected the site where 00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:50.500 Jesus was killed. 00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:52.450 On the basis of that information, 00:22:52.450 --> 00:22:55.600 the Church of the Holy Sepulcher was built 00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:59.200 and is still in existence today, having been destroyed 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:04.810 seven times and rebuilt. 00:23:04.810 --> 00:23:06.700 The Arabs arrive in Jerusalem. 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:10.270 They're the newcomers. 00:23:10.270 --> 00:23:18.100 They asked the Christian bishop about sites 00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:19.915 for their own mosque. 00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:29.710 The Temple Mount, which had been the site of the Jewish temple, 00:23:29.710 --> 00:23:33.640 had been raised by the Romans, and there was nothing left. 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.030 For 500 years, the Temple Mount was 00:23:36.030 --> 00:23:40.690 a rubbish dump of old parts of buildings and so on. 00:23:40.690 --> 00:23:43.670 The Christians wanted nothing to do with it. 00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:48.430 In fact, the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, which was usually 00:23:48.430 --> 00:23:55.420 under the Roman city, entered from The Cardo on the West, 00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:58.510 at least on the East, was closed. 00:23:58.510 --> 00:24:02.350 And you now enter the Church of the Holy Sepulcher 00:24:02.350 --> 00:24:04.510 only from the South. 00:24:04.510 --> 00:24:07.840 On the East now, there's the best candy store 00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:09.415 in Jerusalem on The Cardo. 00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:21.130 So although the Temple Mount, which is only two-- 00:24:21.130 --> 00:24:22.870 to use their phrase-- 00:24:22.870 --> 00:24:26.800 two-arrow lengths, bow lengths, away 00:24:26.800 --> 00:24:33.670 from the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, 00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:43.610 the Islamic penetrators thought that the mythological origins 00:24:43.610 --> 00:24:48.380 of the use of the Temple Mount were sufficient for them 00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:54.800 to follow the Jewish tradition of the destroyed temple. 00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:59.570 So they rebuilt the Temple Mount in about 100 years 00:24:59.570 --> 00:25:08.080 after Mohammad's birth and built the two buildings 00:25:08.080 --> 00:25:09.550 which are still there today-- 00:25:09.550 --> 00:25:11.670 The Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa mosque. 00:25:15.770 --> 00:25:18.680 In my writing, I go through the detailed history 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:24.650 of the idea of resilience, how under these occupations 00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:28.490 each religion plays around with the idea of permanence. 00:25:34.390 --> 00:25:39.310 The Christians in the Holy Sepulcher 00:25:39.310 --> 00:25:43.600 never really agree on the fundamentals 00:25:43.600 --> 00:25:45.100 of the Christian faith. 00:25:45.100 --> 00:25:47.620 Whilst they may agree on the fundamentals, 00:25:47.620 --> 00:25:50.440 they don't agree on its application. 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:57.010 So 70% of the Holy Sepulcher is still under Greek Christian. 00:25:57.010 --> 00:26:03.790 The poor African Ethiopian Christians live on the roof 00:26:03.790 --> 00:26:08.350 and are only allowed to enter the major tabernacle 00:26:08.350 --> 00:26:12.250 by a small staircase. 00:26:12.250 --> 00:26:18.230 As one of the writers writes, "They're 00:26:18.230 --> 00:26:23.380 all divided by faith," or something of this kind. 00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:31.930 So you have a notion of the three major religions having, 00:26:31.930 --> 00:26:37.828 in the case of the Christians, an artifact which 00:26:37.828 --> 00:26:41.980 houses divided aspects of the religion. 00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:42.940 There are fires. 00:26:42.940 --> 00:26:44.240 They are people killed. 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.340 There are all kinds of disjunctions 00:26:48.340 --> 00:26:53.050 between these groups, but Christianity survives. 00:26:53.050 --> 00:26:57.550 On the Islamic front, you have the church, 00:26:57.550 --> 00:27:00.730 the Dome of the Rock, and the Al-Aqsa mosque, which survive 00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:03.520 to this day unblemished. 00:27:03.520 --> 00:27:07.870 In 1099, the Crusaders, under the pressure 00:27:07.870 --> 00:27:11.710 from the popes of Europe, attempt 00:27:11.710 --> 00:27:14.100 to restore Christianity. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.980 Instead of dismant-- they are absolutely 00:27:20.980 --> 00:27:26.530 ruthless to the degree that they kill everybody in their sight. 00:27:26.530 --> 00:27:29.620 They kill Muslims and Jews. 00:27:29.620 --> 00:27:32.560 And in the blood of their boots, they 00:27:32.560 --> 00:27:36.320 walk to the Holy Sepulcher and pray. 00:27:36.320 --> 00:27:42.490 There's always this kind of interesting biblical thing, 00:27:42.490 --> 00:27:46.480 which I focus on also, that the interpretation of God 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.730 is always ambiguous. 00:27:48.730 --> 00:27:54.580 God is always punishing people for doing the wrong things, 00:27:54.580 --> 00:27:59.050 but he's also forgiving, if you come to terms with him-- 00:27:59.050 --> 00:28:04.700 or her, depending on what you believe. 00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:11.740 So the Crusaders behave in this apparently bifocal way. 00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:19.060 They destroy everybody whom they see in their sight violently, 00:28:19.060 --> 00:28:25.690 and at the same time, they go and sing hymns in their church. 00:28:25.690 --> 00:28:31.150 There may be parallels in contemporary violence as well. 00:28:31.150 --> 00:28:36.550 I don't know if it's a born-in instinct in humankind, 00:28:36.550 --> 00:28:41.530 that you modify your behavior in two distinct ways 00:28:41.530 --> 00:28:46.060 according to your belief system. 00:28:46.060 --> 00:28:49.570 The Jews have lost two temples. 00:28:49.570 --> 00:28:52.000 They now are in exile. 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:53.560 They take with them books. 00:28:53.560 --> 00:28:56.881 That's the only property they have. 00:28:56.881 --> 00:29:05.110 There's writers-- Herschel, the American Jewish liberal 00:29:05.110 --> 00:29:10.390 theological rabbi, Mitchell [INAUDIBLE] did his PhD 00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:11.590 at MIT-- 00:29:11.590 --> 00:29:15.970 write about the idea of the Jewish book 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:21.580 as the significant property of memory. 00:29:21.580 --> 00:29:23.800 They argue that, in fact, they are-- 00:29:23.800 --> 00:29:27.580 I think it's Herschel that talks about the Jewish religion 00:29:27.580 --> 00:29:32.540 as being a religion of the architecture of time. 00:29:32.540 --> 00:29:38.140 If you look at the layout of a text in the Mishnah, 00:29:38.140 --> 00:29:41.800 you'll see a body of writing. 00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:47.230 And on the sides are Talmudic interpretations 00:29:47.230 --> 00:29:50.540 by rabbis over time. 00:29:50.540 --> 00:29:56.260 So the truth is never absolute in this one sense-- 00:29:56.260 --> 00:30:01.190 that it's always open to discussion. 00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:04.240 It's also that the Jews took upon themselves-- 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:09.280 and Freud himself, who at one time thought about going 00:30:09.280 --> 00:30:10.510 to live in Jerusalem-- 00:30:13.150 --> 00:30:17.620 says that the Jews preoccupied themselves 00:30:17.620 --> 00:30:20.770 with avoiding pictorial imagery. 00:30:20.770 --> 00:30:24.580 You cannot decorate the synagogue. 00:30:24.580 --> 00:30:29.080 The text has to be absolutely pure. 00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:31.340 Jews didn't become architects. 00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:34.390 They were never in a power position in exile 00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:36.160 for thousands of years-- 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:37.990 well, not thousands of years. 00:30:37.990 --> 00:30:40.660 Peter Eisenman and his-- 00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:42.190 Frank Gehry are Jewish. 00:30:42.190 --> 00:30:46.540 And I suppose that we've made up for that lost time. 00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:55.510 But the Jewish presence after 70 AD 00:30:55.510 --> 00:31:01.690 was in exile until the slow return of the Jews 00:31:01.690 --> 00:31:12.570 in the Ottoman period, which lasted from about 1500 to 1917. 00:31:12.570 --> 00:31:16.350 I hope you're following all of these detailed stories. 00:31:16.350 --> 00:31:21.360 But in a sense, it's only by looking 00:31:21.360 --> 00:31:24.840 at the detailed side of the stories 00:31:24.840 --> 00:31:28.260 that you really get a good idea of the complexity 00:31:28.260 --> 00:31:30.060 of the situation. 00:31:30.060 --> 00:31:31.920 To say Arab-- 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:36.210 I mean, of the 3,000 years of the history of Jerusalem, 00:31:36.210 --> 00:31:39.870 1,200 years would be under the Israelites or the Jews, 00:31:39.870 --> 00:31:42.510 and 1,200 years under the Arabs or Islam. 00:31:45.820 --> 00:31:50.685 Whatever that means, the rest is divided amongst the Christians 00:31:50.685 --> 00:31:51.310 and the Romans. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.990 Jerusalem was, in the first place, 00:31:55.990 --> 00:31:59.840 not a particularly important city. 00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:00.910 It was too steep. 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:10.130 The main circulation path was to the West 00:32:10.130 --> 00:32:13.340 along the Mediterranean. 00:32:13.340 --> 00:32:20.210 Jerusalem was the last connector between the coastal plain 00:32:20.210 --> 00:32:24.375 and the endless desert, which stretched all the way to India. 00:32:27.630 --> 00:32:32.850 The Dead Sea close to Jerusalem was the lowest point on Earth. 00:32:32.850 --> 00:32:35.790 So there was-- I'll show you a slide indicating 00:32:35.790 --> 00:32:39.390 this division, geographical division, on which Jerusalem 00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:41.160 sits. 00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:45.210 Alexander the Great visited Jerusalem. 00:32:45.210 --> 00:32:49.650 This was an enormous victory for the Jews. 00:32:49.650 --> 00:32:56.160 Many Jews, including my son, are named Alexander 00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.890 because of that tradition. 00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:03.690 His first name is Peter, but his second name is Alexander. 00:33:03.690 --> 00:33:10.380 I named him after the Russian giants rather 00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:12.555 and Jewish heroes. 00:33:15.790 --> 00:33:26.810 So Zionism, as a phenomenon, occurs in Europe 00:33:26.810 --> 00:33:32.420 as a consequence of the marginalization of Jews 00:33:32.420 --> 00:33:39.360 in Central Europe and all the way to England and France, 00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:41.982 the disposition of Jewish land. 00:33:41.982 --> 00:33:45.990 The Jews, under one of the early I 00:33:45.990 --> 00:33:49.830 think 12th century English kings, had to wear labels 00:33:49.830 --> 00:33:52.830 marking them as Jews-- 00:33:52.830 --> 00:33:55.410 the pogroms of Eastern Europe. 00:33:55.410 --> 00:34:03.000 I mean, it's a long history which precedes the Holocaust. 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:09.090 And Jewish reaction to persecution and punishment 00:34:09.090 --> 00:34:13.320 took the form of a biblical notion of "next year 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.090 in Jerusalem." 00:34:15.090 --> 00:34:17.519 In the Jewish Passover service, there 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:21.510 is this phrase, "next year, in Jerusalem." 00:34:21.510 --> 00:34:25.320 The Jewish Passover, unlike the Christian Easter, 00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:30.120 is not dedicated very much to a religious idea, 00:34:30.120 --> 00:34:38.920 but related to the escape under Moses from Egypt and God 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:44.270 parting the Red Sea to allow the Jews to escape. 00:34:44.270 --> 00:34:50.060 How true that story is, whether Freud claims that Moses was, 00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:56.375 in fact, an Egyptian who had learned about it. 00:34:56.375 --> 00:35:01.400 Well, anyway, there are too many stories. 00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:04.130 When you get all of these people having 00:35:04.130 --> 00:35:09.810 been involved in this dialogue, on this multilogue, 00:35:09.810 --> 00:35:12.750 you have many stories. 00:35:12.750 --> 00:35:18.600 The Ottoman Empire chooses to take the wrong side in the 1418 00:35:18.600 --> 00:35:21.840 war, and the British take over Jerusalem. 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:24.210 They maintain Jerusalem as a mandate 00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:31.290 until 1948, when the War of Independence 00:35:31.290 --> 00:35:36.660 and the Jewish state of Israel was founded 70 years ago now. 00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:46.120 East Jerusalem belongs to Jordan, West Jerusalem, 00:35:46.120 --> 00:35:49.470 to Israel. 00:35:49.470 --> 00:35:53.220 1967, there's another war. 00:35:53.220 --> 00:36:00.880 This time, the Jews expel Jordan from East Jerusalem, 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.605 and in fact, annex the West Bank to a united Israel. 00:36:08.150 --> 00:36:12.850 The United Nations proposes that Jerusalem 00:36:12.850 --> 00:36:17.020 be an international city. 00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:21.190 They actually have a diagram of the form of Jerusalem 00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:23.500 as an international city. 00:36:23.500 --> 00:36:30.370 Neither side, neither Arab nor Jewish politics, 00:36:30.370 --> 00:36:32.560 accept that as a resolution. 00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:41.680 The Jews start, after the Oslo Accords, which presumably 00:36:41.680 --> 00:36:46.540 sets out that there would be an independent Palestinian state, 00:36:46.540 --> 00:36:51.850 and talks about the '67 boundary lines 00:36:51.850 --> 00:36:55.780 and zones for the future states. 00:36:59.620 --> 00:37:04.870 Israel politics, a combination of religious pressure 00:37:04.870 --> 00:37:15.010 and all kinds of other internal Israeli social issues, 00:37:15.010 --> 00:37:18.070 promote the expansion program, which 00:37:18.070 --> 00:37:21.910 now has reached 300,000 settlers living 00:37:21.910 --> 00:37:30.810 on land, which is East of the partition line set by the Oslo 00:37:30.810 --> 00:37:31.310 Accords. 00:37:36.910 --> 00:37:41.800 Many American presidents, since Harry Truman I think, 00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:46.300 have objected to Israeli settlement expansion, 00:37:46.300 --> 00:37:48.250 with no results whatsoever. 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:55.630 The status quo, at the end of all of my long story of 3,000 00:37:55.630 --> 00:38:01.240 years, is a situation in which Jerusalem 00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:06.290 is claimed by Israel to be the unique capital of Israel. 00:38:06.290 --> 00:38:09.130 Although, as you will read in my letter, 00:38:09.130 --> 00:38:14.320 many of the previous Israeli presidents 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.380 have looked for alternative sites 00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:24.460 to Jerusalem, at least for the capital of Israel, including 00:38:24.460 --> 00:38:27.845 Ben-Gurion's choice of coordinate in the Negev. 00:38:34.030 --> 00:38:40.180 At present, the Palestinian position 00:38:40.180 --> 00:38:42.580 is a slightly more complex position, 00:38:42.580 --> 00:38:46.450 but they would like to share Jerusalem 00:38:46.450 --> 00:38:50.450 as the capital of their state as well. 00:38:50.450 --> 00:38:55.090 So you have a notion, which I don't think exists anywhere 00:38:55.090 --> 00:38:56.980 else in the world, where one city is 00:38:56.980 --> 00:39:00.800 the capital of two countries. 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:06.230 You get St. Louis, Missouri and St. Louis, Kansas City. 00:39:06.230 --> 00:39:11.690 You have divisions in other parts of the world, 00:39:11.690 --> 00:39:15.080 but you have no claim for a city as being 00:39:15.080 --> 00:39:18.180 the capital of two states. 00:39:18.180 --> 00:39:24.680 In fact, the notion of two states is now under discussion. 00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:27.380 There's a new, relatively new, movement, 00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:32.150 which argues for the existence of a single state, which 00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:35.240 would alleviate the problem of the settlements, 00:39:35.240 --> 00:39:38.450 but deny Zionist ambitions. 00:39:38.450 --> 00:39:44.260 Because demographically, the Jewish position 00:39:44.260 --> 00:39:49.330 is more vulnerable demographically. 00:39:49.330 --> 00:39:52.990 This two-state solution, which the United States 00:39:52.990 --> 00:39:59.710 and most liberal politicians support, 00:39:59.710 --> 00:40:03.175 is for there to be an independent Palestinian state. 00:40:05.770 --> 00:40:10.990 The Palestinians wish to go back to the 1967 boundary. 00:40:10.990 --> 00:40:13.150 They'll have to be some compromise. 00:40:13.150 --> 00:40:15.280 God knows how that compromise is going 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.540 to be worked out between the size of the settlement 00:40:19.540 --> 00:40:25.750 population and the emaciated, fragmented-- 00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:30.430 you can see in the last map in your handout, 00:40:30.430 --> 00:40:34.760 just in the case of the periphery of Jerusalem, 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:47.960 how much this land has become parcelized and fragmented 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:48.905 rather than unified. 00:40:54.370 --> 00:41:01.850 My son's book, which tackles this problem much more 00:41:01.850 --> 00:41:11.270 eloquently than I can, argues that for a Palestinian state, 00:41:11.270 --> 00:41:16.150 which is liberal and not imposing military law 00:41:16.150 --> 00:41:19.880 onto the Palestinians in the West Bank, 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.060 and so on, and so on, is probably 00:41:23.060 --> 00:41:26.420 the most coherent liberal position 00:41:26.420 --> 00:41:28.700 on the subject at the moment. 00:41:28.700 --> 00:41:33.500 The future of Jerusalem may well be never resolved. 00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:44.940 It may be the result of too much history and too much mythology. 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:49.050 Mythology becomes history at a certain point. 00:41:49.050 --> 00:41:51.360 Let me give you an example. 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:57.450 Christians, at Easter today, celebrate the way of the cross. 00:41:57.450 --> 00:42:00.330 They carry the cross symbolically 00:42:00.330 --> 00:42:04.500 from the praetorium where Jesus was housed 00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:09.370 to where he was crucified. 00:42:09.370 --> 00:42:13.510 The site of the crucifixion is not absolutely clear, 00:42:13.510 --> 00:42:18.790 but most people now assume it to be somewhere around where 00:42:18.790 --> 00:42:22.300 the sepulcher is. 00:42:22.300 --> 00:42:27.610 One of the stations of the cross, station number 00:42:27.610 --> 00:42:29.710 I don't know what-- 00:42:29.710 --> 00:42:32.710 number seven, I'm not sure exactly-- 00:42:32.710 --> 00:42:36.460 it's called the Ecce Homo station. 00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:46.065 That's where the Roman Legion commander pointed down to Jesus 00:42:46.065 --> 00:42:47.510 and said, ecce homo-- 00:42:47.510 --> 00:42:52.400 look at that man, look at this man in a derisive manner-- 00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:55.770 carrying the cross. 00:42:55.770 --> 00:42:59.340 In fact, history proves that to be absolutely nonsense, 00:42:59.340 --> 00:43:01.740 but a complete myth. 00:43:01.740 --> 00:43:07.800 Archeologists say that the Ecce Homo Arch was only built long 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:15.160 after Jesus' death and didn't exist at the time of Jesus. 00:43:15.160 --> 00:43:24.210 So the other conflations of reality, 00:43:24.210 --> 00:43:30.690 the Jews are near the citadel of David 00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:36.660 have the site of David's tomb, above which Christians 00:43:36.660 --> 00:43:46.550 claim the Last Supper of Jesus with his followers took place. 00:43:46.550 --> 00:43:51.860 It is now the site of the Dormitian Abbey, which is 00:43:51.860 --> 00:43:54.005 where Mary was supposedly died. 00:43:54.005 --> 00:43:55.910 [ITALIAN] Mary-- 00:43:55.910 --> 00:43:58.970 [ITALIAN] being the Italian word to sleep-- 00:43:58.970 --> 00:44:00.650 Dormitian Abbey. 00:44:00.650 --> 00:44:03.110 So you have a vertical. 00:44:03.110 --> 00:44:06.650 As the history of this city has grown and layered 00:44:06.650 --> 00:44:11.450 upon each other, physically you have Jewish David 00:44:11.450 --> 00:44:12.800 at the bottom. 00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:19.130 Jesus is next on top, and the Ottoman Empire and Mary's 00:44:19.130 --> 00:44:22.610 memory on the top. 00:44:22.610 --> 00:44:26.450 What do you do about a place like this? 00:44:26.450 --> 00:44:28.760 You fossilize it. 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:31.070 In my letter, in The New Republic, 00:44:31.070 --> 00:44:33.770 I say that it's not only a religious city. 00:44:33.770 --> 00:44:37.550 It's an everyday city in which people go to school. 00:44:37.550 --> 00:44:40.320 People have transportation problems. 00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.190 The Jews have just built a light rail system. 00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:51.390 It's a political city. 00:44:51.390 --> 00:44:57.300 It never was the capital of any of the country's Arab countries 00:44:57.300 --> 00:44:59.970 that conquered Jerusalem. 00:44:59.970 --> 00:45:03.480 I'll show you a slide of Jerusalem 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:07.560 only being the capital of the Crusader 00:45:07.560 --> 00:45:11.970 empire and the Jewish empire. 00:45:11.970 --> 00:45:15.600 What justification that makes for arguing that Jerusalem 00:45:15.600 --> 00:45:20.880 should be the unique capital of Israel is for you to decide. 00:45:27.210 --> 00:45:29.820 This is the most-- 00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:33.270 I mean, I can give you many detailed stories and versions 00:45:33.270 --> 00:45:35.400 of any of these events. 00:45:38.030 --> 00:45:46.760 For instance, in a religious environment of this kind, 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:50.780 it's amazing how frequently people 00:45:50.780 --> 00:45:55.230 build on the sites of previous religious institutions. 00:45:55.230 --> 00:45:57.740 The Church of the Holy Sepulcher is 00:45:57.740 --> 00:46:03.050 built on the site of the Roman temple of Aphrodite. 00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:07.850 When the Crusaders capture Jerusalem in 1099, 00:46:07.850 --> 00:46:11.720 they go, they march, to the Dome of the Rock 00:46:11.720 --> 00:46:13.520 and the Al-Aqsa mosque. 00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:15.680 And instead of putting them down, 00:46:15.680 --> 00:46:19.520 they put a Christian flag on top of the Dome of the Rock 00:46:19.520 --> 00:46:22.400 and called the Temple of Dominus. 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:26.420 And the Al-Aqsa mosque becomes Temple Salomonis. 00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:30.260 Al-Aqsa mosque has its foundations 00:46:30.260 --> 00:46:34.100 in Solomon's temple stables. 00:46:34.100 --> 00:46:37.800 It is constantly-- its roof is constantly-- 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:41.060 its lead roof is constantly having to be repaired, 00:46:41.060 --> 00:46:44.190 because its foundations are so unstable. 00:46:44.190 --> 00:46:46.942 This is the city which is built. 00:46:46.942 --> 00:46:50.510 I write in the last part of my writing 00:46:50.510 --> 00:46:55.430 on Louis Kahn's Hurva synagogue. 00:46:55.430 --> 00:46:56.810 Well, if you haven't read it, I'm 00:46:56.810 --> 00:47:00.620 not going to tell you the story of Louis Kahn's interpretation 00:47:00.620 --> 00:47:05.165 of how you build in Jerusalem, his theory of ruins. 00:47:08.640 --> 00:47:17.190 So today, the Islam has two permanent monuments, ways, 00:47:17.190 --> 00:47:19.710 people can pray. 00:47:19.710 --> 00:47:22.350 The Jews don't have any. 00:47:22.350 --> 00:47:25.260 They pray in the open air. 00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:28.440 The holiest presence is in the Western Wall, 00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:35.610 which is eroding in ancestry. 00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:41.970 And the Christians still have the desecrated holy place 00:47:41.970 --> 00:47:45.900 of the Sepulcher, Christ's passion-- 00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:49.020 the location of Christ's passion. 00:47:49.020 --> 00:47:58.480 And such is an abbreviated story of Jerusalem. 00:47:58.480 --> 00:47:59.530 Now, what do you do? 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.670 I worked for the Palestinian side. 00:48:05.670 --> 00:48:08.130 I worked not for the Israeli government, 00:48:08.130 --> 00:48:12.700 but for the mayor of Jerusalem over time. 00:48:12.700 --> 00:48:17.040 So my investment in this city is more than just 00:48:17.040 --> 00:48:20.250 knowing its history, which I only know partially. 00:48:20.250 --> 00:48:23.520 The history of religion is so extensive 00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:26.320 that to understand it all-- 00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:30.810 I don't even understand who Gabriel was. 00:48:30.810 --> 00:48:33.330 The figure is in some story somewhere. 00:48:36.210 --> 00:48:42.920 I mean, the books about the Last Supper, 00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:47.150 which talk about the tradition of eating together 00:48:47.150 --> 00:48:50.570 and what that means, the book's about the killing 00:48:50.570 --> 00:48:51.605 of your first son-- 00:48:54.380 --> 00:49:01.370 remember the one of the plagues that the Egyptians or God cast 00:49:01.370 --> 00:49:04.820 on the Egyptians for the persecution of the Jews 00:49:04.820 --> 00:49:07.010 was the killing of the first son. 00:49:07.010 --> 00:49:11.300 That's why the baby Moses was hidden in the reeds. 00:49:17.090 --> 00:49:20.120 We can go on and on, and on and on, and on. 00:49:20.120 --> 00:49:23.450 Religion is a business which produces lots of myths, 00:49:23.450 --> 00:49:27.290 and realities, and interpretations to keep 00:49:27.290 --> 00:49:28.025 itself going. 00:49:32.010 --> 00:49:40.600 OK, we should look at some of these pictures 00:49:40.600 --> 00:49:43.290 so you get a better idea of what this place looks like. 00:49:53.620 --> 00:49:54.750 The options are simple. 00:49:58.470 --> 00:50:02.610 This is the present Israeli option for Jerusalem. 00:50:02.610 --> 00:50:05.610 If this is Palestine and this is Israel, 00:50:05.610 --> 00:50:10.950 Jerusalem has a secure border on its East side. 00:50:13.650 --> 00:50:18.425 This is a metropolitan city, as indicated 00:50:18.425 --> 00:50:22.250 in the drawing of the Palestinian planner 00:50:22.250 --> 00:50:24.656 with the central. 00:50:24.656 --> 00:50:28.820 The problem of what happens on a boundary between two 00:50:28.820 --> 00:50:32.900 countries in terms of security and customs 00:50:32.900 --> 00:50:36.440 isn't answered by one. 00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:38.120 You have to dispense with it. 00:50:38.120 --> 00:50:41.180 You can only dispense with that if you 00:50:41.180 --> 00:50:43.010 have secure relationship. 00:50:45.632 --> 00:50:50.440 The European Union has dispensed with passports 00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:57.390 by virtue of an assumption that there is no reason 00:50:57.390 --> 00:51:03.390 to maintain fortified borders any longer between France 00:51:03.390 --> 00:51:07.010 and Belgium, for instance. 00:51:07.010 --> 00:51:12.050 But can you conceive of this being a solution in relation 00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:17.540 to two pretty hostile entities? 00:51:17.540 --> 00:51:21.050 How are you going to deal with security in a unified city-- 00:51:24.250 --> 00:51:25.060 small details? 00:51:30.016 --> 00:51:31.930 The historic site has-- 00:51:34.640 --> 00:51:44.110 if an Iraqi wishes to visit the Dome of the Rock, 00:51:44.110 --> 00:51:52.610 he or she has to penetrate some kind of a line, 00:51:52.610 --> 00:51:55.130 or presumably there is line which 00:51:55.130 --> 00:51:59.330 has to be penetrated at all. 00:51:59.330 --> 00:52:04.550 This is a position where Palestine 00:52:04.550 --> 00:52:11.150 encircles Jerusalem in the counterpoint to this proposal. 00:52:11.150 --> 00:52:12.970 Are there any other possibilities? 00:52:16.700 --> 00:52:18.200 What do you think at the back there? 00:52:21.872 --> 00:52:23.197 AUDIENCE: Possibility for what? 00:52:23.197 --> 00:52:24.030 JULIAN BEINART: Hmm? 00:52:24.030 --> 00:52:25.947 AUDIENCE: Possibility for what? 00:52:25.947 --> 00:52:27.780 JULIAN BEINART: For the future of Jerusalem, 00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:29.280 given either one or-- 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:33.180 given a one-state solution, there's no problem. 00:52:33.180 --> 00:52:36.040 It's the capital of a single state. 00:52:36.040 --> 00:52:38.975 But if it's the-- 00:52:38.975 --> 00:52:42.900 another solution is a version of number 1-- 00:52:46.540 --> 00:52:51.430 that the Ramallah, the United States, and the European Union 00:52:51.430 --> 00:52:54.580 give a billion dollars to the Palestinians 00:52:54.580 --> 00:52:55.645 to build a new capital. 00:52:58.225 --> 00:53:01.280 AUDIENCE: It's not a question of where other people want 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:04.180 them to put the capital. 00:53:04.180 --> 00:53:10.470 [INAUDIBLE] for Israel the same. 00:53:10.470 --> 00:53:13.850 There's two sides of Jerusalem. 00:53:13.850 --> 00:53:15.153 JULIAN BEINART: I understand. 00:53:15.153 --> 00:53:16.820 AUDIENCE: There is a place to divide it. 00:53:16.820 --> 00:53:21.480 There is a divide, without there being a political division. 00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:25.410 There is a community that's divided. 00:53:25.410 --> 00:53:28.420 The problem is that it's the issue of security 00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:31.390 and whether everybody from-- 00:53:31.390 --> 00:53:33.370 what the Palestinians can control 00:53:33.370 --> 00:53:36.970 who comes right up to the edge of the Israeli side 00:53:36.970 --> 00:53:38.590 or the Jewish side. 00:53:38.590 --> 00:53:40.190 That's the problem. 00:53:40.190 --> 00:53:43.720 JULIAN BEINART: I understand. 00:53:43.720 --> 00:53:49.150 What I'm concluding is that there is no solution 00:53:49.150 --> 00:53:54.550 and that this will just perpetuate itself in history, 00:53:54.550 --> 00:54:00.820 causing bloodshed as blood accompanies this history 00:54:00.820 --> 00:54:04.030 of Jerusalem for 2,000, 3,000 years. 00:54:04.030 --> 00:54:07.990 That it'll just continue to be-- 00:54:07.990 --> 00:54:13.450 it is too intoxicated a site by the virtue of the three 00:54:13.450 --> 00:54:16.510 major religions in the world. 00:54:16.510 --> 00:54:18.610 Forgive me if I leave the others out. 00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:27.800 And to use Aldo Rossi's term, "The locus 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:34.160 is such that it is irresolvable." 00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:38.000 It's a bleak future for both Palestine and Israel. 00:54:40.790 --> 00:54:44.030 Maybe there's a solution which doesn't include Jerusalem. 00:54:44.030 --> 00:54:48.720 This is the one which I'm indicating here, 00:54:48.720 --> 00:54:54.470 where East Jerusalem is a suburb of another state, 00:54:54.470 --> 00:54:57.530 of a city in another state, but that's 00:54:57.530 --> 00:55:01.570 a far-fetched resolution. 00:55:01.570 --> 00:55:04.850 There's the West versus the East, 00:55:04.850 --> 00:55:09.500 the countries of Palestine versus Israel, the race Arab 00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:16.940 versus Hebrew, language Hebrew versus Arabic, religion Islam 00:55:16.940 --> 00:55:23.420 and Christianity versus Judaism, Israel's relationship 00:55:23.420 --> 00:55:27.350 with the West, with Palestine's association 00:55:27.350 --> 00:55:31.580 with the Middle East and the Arab world, 00:55:31.580 --> 00:55:36.920 Israel's preoccupation with Western and industrial growth, 00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:41.150 Palestine's developing economy in agriculture 00:55:41.150 --> 00:55:47.300 and in technical industry, the Jewish background 00:55:47.300 --> 00:55:54.350 of the Holocaust and the Arab treatment of Jews 00:55:54.350 --> 00:56:02.330 in Arab countries, Palestine's heritage of colonialism, 00:56:02.330 --> 00:56:10.360 exploitation, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. 00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:14.410 You just travel the world of imagery. 00:56:14.410 --> 00:56:15.095 It's cheaper. 00:56:23.770 --> 00:56:27.840 Jerusalem, like so many parts of this world, [INAUDIBLE] 00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:32.870 is exactly the same, topological structure. 00:56:32.870 --> 00:56:36.910 It's built on folded plains causing 00:56:36.910 --> 00:56:43.750 valleys, and hillsides, and different kinds of notions 00:56:43.750 --> 00:56:45.080 of development. 00:56:45.080 --> 00:56:50.300 This is a more or less contemporary imagery. 00:56:50.300 --> 00:56:54.280 This is the old city here. 00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:59.560 This is the mosque, Al-Aqsa mosque, and that's 00:56:59.560 --> 00:57:00.610 the Dome of the Rock. 00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:15.190 This is the Western Wall. 00:57:15.190 --> 00:57:19.840 This is Jewish expansion from the 19th century onward, 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:23.470 westward, Beit HaKarem, and all the way 00:57:23.470 --> 00:57:34.280 to the Jewish Israeli museum, the Jewish capital parliament 00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:37.260 buildings, and further westwards. 00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:37.760 Next. 00:57:45.080 --> 00:57:49.970 Jerusalem lying on watershed between the coastal plain 00:57:49.970 --> 00:57:57.910 on the West and the endless desert on the right. 00:57:57.910 --> 00:57:58.410 Next. 00:58:01.690 --> 00:58:04.990 David's building of the city on the south. 00:58:04.990 --> 00:58:09.910 The city was always defensible on the south 00:58:09.910 --> 00:58:11.980 more easily than it was in the north. 00:58:11.980 --> 00:58:16.150 The Romans invaded from the north. 00:58:16.150 --> 00:58:22.000 This is a set of reconstruction of Solomon's Temple 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:23.150 over the centuries. 00:58:23.150 --> 00:58:23.650 Next. 00:58:28.390 --> 00:58:31.990 Corbusier's sketch of the Holy of the Holies 00:58:31.990 --> 00:58:33.415 under the nomadic tent. 00:58:37.770 --> 00:58:44.130 The whole idea of the temple is creating 00:58:44.130 --> 00:58:49.500 an audience of people in the community in the foreground, 00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:52.315 but no penetration of the building itself. 00:58:57.120 --> 00:58:58.695 Jesus inherits temple. 00:59:03.080 --> 00:59:12.560 He said to exonerate-- not attacked, 00:59:12.560 --> 00:59:20.390 but assaulted the sellers of goods in the foreground 00:59:20.390 --> 00:59:22.610 of the temple. 00:59:22.610 --> 00:59:26.210 At a certain point he says, the temple 00:59:26.210 --> 00:59:31.550 will be destroyed after my death. 00:59:31.550 --> 00:59:38.510 He says to his associates, from then onwards, 00:59:38.510 --> 00:59:39.860 you won't need a temple. 00:59:39.860 --> 00:59:42.960 My body will be your temple. 00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:45.350 Here, you have a religious substitution 00:59:45.350 --> 00:59:49.505 of the image of the body, the mass. 00:59:53.840 --> 01:00:00.170 In Catholicism, the use of the wafer to eat something 01:00:00.170 --> 01:00:05.300 refers to the actual consumption of the symbolic consumption 01:00:05.300 --> 01:00:06.185 of a body. 01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:12.350 The wine stands for blood. 01:00:12.350 --> 01:00:17.370 These primitive and primeval relationships. 01:00:17.370 --> 01:00:17.870 Next. 01:00:20.720 --> 01:00:23.850 God is the architect. 01:00:23.850 --> 01:00:27.470 Augustine, on the right, is seeing God, 01:00:27.470 --> 01:00:32.225 envisioning a second city up in the sky. 01:00:34.820 --> 01:00:37.850 For Jews, it was the second-- 01:00:37.850 --> 01:00:41.240 the ethereal Jerusalem is about 10 miles up. 01:00:41.240 --> 01:00:44.460 For Arabs, it's about 15 miles up. 01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:44.960 Next. 01:00:49.900 --> 01:00:54.370 Reversionary construction of these Ezekiel's temple 01:00:54.370 --> 01:00:56.695 from the six, seven chapters. 01:01:00.040 --> 01:01:02.770 I didn't go into this, and I think 01:01:02.770 --> 01:01:04.420 we'll leave it for the moment. 01:01:04.420 --> 01:01:08.920 It was the notion of the invention of heaven. 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:11.500 For the Jews, it seemed to me that early 01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:20.260 on the God with Yahweh, heaven was above, 01:01:20.260 --> 01:01:27.790 but dead human beings were not part of the territory that 01:01:27.790 --> 01:01:30.070 should be taken account of. 01:01:30.070 --> 01:01:34.240 Priests wore gloves when dealing with dead human beings, 01:01:34.240 --> 01:01:35.525 like animals. 01:01:35.525 --> 01:01:36.025 Next. 01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:43.170 Here, it's temple reconstruction. 01:01:43.170 --> 01:01:46.380 The great battle, the invasion, of the Romans 01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:49.015 and the slaughter of the Jews. 01:01:49.015 --> 01:01:49.515 Next. 01:01:53.300 --> 01:02:00.140 The only map of Jerusalem, this is in Jordan 01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:03.650 in a place called Madaba, near Aman. 01:02:03.650 --> 01:02:08.750 This is a mosaic floor in a church in Madaba showing 01:02:08.750 --> 01:02:13.970 the Roman construction of The Cardo, The East-West 01:02:13.970 --> 01:02:19.440 Cardo, and the Decumanus from the Jaffa Gate 01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:24.825 running right angles. 01:02:24.825 --> 01:02:25.325 Next. 01:02:29.520 --> 01:02:31.260 This is the Ecce Homo Arch. 01:02:33.870 --> 01:02:36.960 We're looking at a map of Jerusalem 01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:40.950 at the time of the death of Christ. 01:02:40.950 --> 01:02:46.310 You will see the connection from the praetorium. 01:02:46.310 --> 01:02:49.830 So here, it's praetorium at the top of the Temple Mount 01:02:49.830 --> 01:02:56.250 diagram along the way of the cross, all the way to Golgotha, 01:02:56.250 --> 01:03:03.730 to the Golgotha hill, and the putative passion of Christ. 01:03:03.730 --> 01:03:06.150 This is [INAUDIBLE],, this way of the cross 01:03:06.150 --> 01:03:09.720 is a ritualistic celebration carried out 01:03:09.720 --> 01:03:14.040 each Easter in Jerusalem by thousands of pilgrims 01:03:14.040 --> 01:03:15.850 from all over the world. 01:03:15.850 --> 01:03:16.350 Next. 01:03:19.910 --> 01:03:26.510 The temple of Aphrodite prior to the establishment 01:03:26.510 --> 01:03:27.620 of the church. 01:03:27.620 --> 01:03:31.400 The original establishment of the Church of the Holy 01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:36.290 Sepulcher has various religious components, 01:03:36.290 --> 01:03:40.470 but it connects to The Cardo on the extreme right. 01:03:40.470 --> 01:03:40.970 Next. 01:03:45.700 --> 01:03:55.330 Here is a version of it after the Arab presence. 01:03:55.330 --> 01:04:05.670 The entrance now is on the south here, 01:04:05.670 --> 01:04:11.430 and its connection to The Cardo is truncated and stopped. 01:04:11.430 --> 01:04:16.630 These are various components of the Christian story. 01:04:16.630 --> 01:04:17.130 Next. 01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:27.630 The Christian faiths do not trust access 01:04:27.630 --> 01:04:31.860 to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, 01:04:31.860 --> 01:04:40.380 and for centuries have endured the Nusaybah family, 01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:45.540 an Israeli Islamic family, with the keys. 01:04:48.340 --> 01:04:51.155 Here is the entrance to the south. 01:04:51.155 --> 01:04:51.655 Next. 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:55.275 Here's the roof. 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:02.120 A Christian priest living on the roof of the Church 01:05:02.120 --> 01:05:05.330 of the Holy Sepulcher in semi-exile, and here 01:05:05.330 --> 01:05:10.455 is an Easter night celebration on the roof. 01:05:10.455 --> 01:05:10.955 Next. 01:05:14.870 --> 01:05:18.450 The establishment, first establishment, 01:05:18.450 --> 01:05:22.740 of the Dome of the Rock, the circular purple building, 01:05:22.740 --> 01:05:26.760 and the Al-Aqsa mosque on the south, 01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:35.340 and the many institutions leaving 01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:41.745 this part of the holy city to be the Jewish quarter. 01:05:44.920 --> 01:05:47.590 The Basilica of Holy Zion-- 01:05:47.590 --> 01:05:51.220 slowly there's something about the Armenian quarter 01:05:51.220 --> 01:05:56.165 and the Christian quarter to develop further to the north. 01:05:56.165 --> 01:05:56.665 Next. 01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:06.540 The Dome of the Rock, that Al-Aqsa mosque-- 01:06:06.540 --> 01:06:07.040 next. 01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:17.230 The Crusader period for a relatively short time, 01:06:17.230 --> 01:06:22.700 the [LATIN],, the baptistery, the Temple Salomonis, 01:06:22.700 --> 01:06:28.300 the previous Al-Aqsa mosque, not destroyed but maintained, 01:06:28.300 --> 01:06:32.830 only Christianized in a simple way-- 01:06:32.830 --> 01:06:35.080 all the Christian institutions which 01:06:35.080 --> 01:06:37.900 grow up under the Crusader. 01:06:37.900 --> 01:06:42.820 St. James Cathedral, the Greek hopice, the Syrian monastery, 01:06:42.820 --> 01:06:46.360 the church of St. Martin, St. John the Baptist, 01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:49.210 the Hospitaliers quarter, the building 01:06:49.210 --> 01:06:55.940 of the largest hospital in the world 01:06:55.940 --> 01:07:01.450 at that time in the Muristan district, 01:07:01.450 --> 01:07:08.030 largely part of the Christianic beneficence. 01:07:08.030 --> 01:07:08.530 Next. 01:07:13.080 --> 01:07:29.010 The retaking of the city under Arab Islamic circumstances 01:07:29.010 --> 01:07:33.150 by Saladin, rebuilding of the walls, 01:07:33.150 --> 01:07:40.920 the wall's rebuilt in 1131, 1191 to 1213, all of the schools 01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:45.840 and community places as a result of the Islamicization 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.360 of this space. 01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:54.820 1917, Jerusalem prior, at the time of the British invasion. 01:07:54.820 --> 01:07:55.320 Next. 01:08:01.640 --> 01:08:05.240 I mentioned the example of the [INAUDIBLE],, 01:08:05.240 --> 01:08:13.130 the layering of David's tomb, the Dormitian Abbey, 01:08:13.130 --> 01:08:17.779 and the [INAUDIBLE] Caiaphas, one of the agents 01:08:17.779 --> 01:08:20.689 in the death of Jesus. 01:08:20.689 --> 01:08:25.430 But the Last Supper takes place there as well. 01:08:25.430 --> 01:08:28.310 Here is the Dormitian Abbey, which 01:08:28.310 --> 01:08:33.500 has these three layers of vertical space belonging 01:08:33.500 --> 01:08:34.830 to different religions. 01:08:34.830 --> 01:08:35.330 Next. 01:08:43.420 --> 01:08:48.729 The final subdivision of the Holy City into four sectors, 01:08:48.729 --> 01:08:53.560 the Dome of the Rock, and the Al-Aqsa mosque, 01:08:53.560 --> 01:08:57.279 penetrating into the Jewish sector with the Dung Gate. 01:08:57.279 --> 01:08:59.140 That's this gate. 01:08:59.140 --> 01:09:03.490 The Golden Gate, which is not open any longer 01:09:03.490 --> 01:09:05.950 to the Islamic section, which has 01:09:05.950 --> 01:09:12.160 the Damascus Gate on the north as its major entrance. 01:09:12.160 --> 01:09:13.840 The Church of the Holy Sepulcher, 01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:17.590 and the Christian sector, and the Armenian sector here. 01:09:17.590 --> 01:09:19.720 The Jaffa Gate leads to-- 01:09:19.720 --> 01:09:22.540 is the prime-- if you extend these lines, 01:09:22.540 --> 01:09:28.210 the Jaffa Gate extends to the Mediterranean. 01:09:28.210 --> 01:09:31.000 The Dung Gate extends down to Egypt. 01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:35.109 The Damascus Gate extends upwards to Syria, 01:09:35.109 --> 01:09:42.970 and this closed Golden Gate potentially extends eastwards 01:09:42.970 --> 01:09:44.750 to Iraq. 01:09:44.750 --> 01:09:45.250 Next. 01:09:52.310 --> 01:09:55.400 The contemporary city on the left, 01:09:55.400 --> 01:10:00.800 the coexistence of tall skyscrapers 01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:03.695 on the west in the Jewish city. 01:10:06.425 --> 01:10:06.925 Next. 01:10:11.890 --> 01:10:15.420 The British occupation, the McLean Plan, 01:10:15.420 --> 01:10:20.740 it's not very clear, but it's an attempt 01:10:20.740 --> 01:10:27.040 to recognize the western part, the Jewish part, and developing 01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:31.060 it according to a garden city model. 01:10:31.060 --> 01:10:37.680 The Arab side is left gray for reasons I don't understand. 01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:41.680 Restricted building and open space-- 01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:42.865 extraordinary plan. 01:10:46.280 --> 01:10:52.580 And the United Nations' plan, which encloses a larger area 01:10:52.580 --> 01:11:02.940 than the municipality, and it encloses Bethlehem [INAUDIBLE] 01:11:02.940 --> 01:11:06.510 on the east, including Hadassah Hospital and Hebrew University 01:11:06.510 --> 01:11:07.752 on the northeast-- 01:11:11.490 --> 01:11:13.120 rejected by both sides. 01:11:17.620 --> 01:11:18.120 Next. 01:11:23.660 --> 01:11:26.510 Jerusalem's rulers from 587-- 01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:33.110 that's Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon to 1967 AD-- 01:11:33.110 --> 01:11:41.030 showing that Jerusalem had consequence at a distance. 01:11:41.030 --> 01:11:48.890 The 1967 dividing of the city in the east and west 01:11:48.890 --> 01:11:51.395 with a boundary between the two. 01:11:51.395 --> 01:11:51.895 Next. 01:11:54.440 --> 01:11:58.280 The boundary taken over and a map showing-- 01:12:02.100 --> 01:12:09.110 map by protagonists of the Arab cause, 01:12:09.110 --> 01:12:11.660 arguing that the Jews have always 01:12:11.660 --> 01:12:19.130 tried to locate settlements in a pattern which causes the city 01:12:19.130 --> 01:12:21.060 not to be unified. 01:12:21.060 --> 01:12:21.560 Next. 01:12:27.550 --> 01:12:30.730 Louis Kahn's-- one of the Louis Kahn's great buildings, 01:12:30.730 --> 01:12:40.590 which he never built, and his very interesting interpretation 01:12:40.590 --> 01:12:45.740 of the use of ruins in a city of-- 01:12:45.740 --> 01:12:48.070 could you just turn on those lights, please? 01:12:59.960 --> 01:13:08.770 When you have the intersection of religion, politics, 01:13:08.770 --> 01:13:13.480 geography, and history, you cannot do anything. 01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:19.600 It's frozen. 01:13:19.600 --> 01:13:23.620 I don't know of a situation which has managed to overcome-- 01:13:23.620 --> 01:13:24.925 maybe Belgian. 01:13:29.410 --> 01:13:37.540 I suppose in Europe at least the elimination 01:13:37.540 --> 01:13:42.010 of obstacles towards the creation of a plane 01:13:42.010 --> 01:13:44.710 of general acceptance. 01:13:44.710 --> 01:13:46.930 And the European Union is perhaps 01:13:46.930 --> 01:13:54.100 the most modern example of the breaking down of barriers. 01:13:54.100 --> 01:14:01.510 The barriers are still between Algiers and Paris. 01:14:01.510 --> 01:14:06.100 It's between the hinterland of countries, Turkey 01:14:06.100 --> 01:14:12.470 and the European Union, sending migrant labor back and forth. 01:14:12.470 --> 01:14:19.330 But this is a phenomenon which is not 01:14:19.330 --> 01:14:22.870 easily applied to Jerusalem. 01:14:22.870 --> 01:14:24.865 In the case of Johannesburg, you will 01:14:24.865 --> 01:14:27.040 see the absence of religion. 01:14:27.040 --> 01:14:31.030 It is purely a question of race. 01:14:31.030 --> 01:14:35.890 Once you eliminate region and you only deal with race, 01:14:35.890 --> 01:14:40.220 you find it easier to resolve, even although South Africa 01:14:40.220 --> 01:14:46.330 has struggled into the post-apartheid democracy. 01:14:46.330 --> 01:14:50.740 It took enormous resources, and time, and bloodshed. 01:14:50.740 --> 01:15:03.960 And Johannesburg is an artifact of race, and so on. 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:06.900 So we look at these others in a slightly different light 01:15:06.900 --> 01:15:08.310 than Jerusalem. 01:15:08.310 --> 01:15:14.130 But Jerusalem is the great metaphysical city of the world. 01:15:14.130 --> 01:15:17.010 It's the most important metaphysical presence. 01:15:24.530 --> 01:15:31.190 What that means, meaning-wise, is difficult to say. 01:15:31.190 --> 01:15:35.270 They are parts where you tread and walk softly and slowly, 01:15:35.270 --> 01:15:38.810 because you have a history of associations 01:15:38.810 --> 01:15:42.000 with that particular place. 01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:44.090 And these associations are carefully vivid. 01:15:47.620 --> 01:15:52.940 There have been Palestinian riots 01:15:52.940 --> 01:15:58.320 around the archaeology of certain regions 01:15:58.320 --> 01:15:59.205 in the olden city. 01:16:03.320 --> 01:16:08.090 Somebody one day will try to excavate under the Holy Mount 01:16:08.090 --> 01:16:12.590 to see if the Holies of Holy is still there. 01:16:12.590 --> 01:16:18.800 Steven Spielberg's probably likely to do the movie. 01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:24.860 Although, he's done a movie which is similar. 01:16:24.860 --> 01:16:28.100 Anyway, any thoughts about all of this? 01:16:34.060 --> 01:16:36.240 Complexity is an easy evasion. 01:16:38.950 --> 01:16:43.060 You know, wherever I go around the world hearing people talk 01:16:43.060 --> 01:16:45.310 about cities, the modern interpretation 01:16:45.310 --> 01:16:49.930 is they're too complex to have theories about them. 01:16:49.930 --> 01:16:54.700 And no city is more complex than Jerusalem. 01:16:54.700 --> 01:17:00.250 No city has been the site of three major religions. 01:17:00.250 --> 01:17:09.420 No city has been the site of 3,000 years of invasion 01:17:09.420 --> 01:17:15.710 and succession, resilience and the building 01:17:15.710 --> 01:17:17.120 up of history and myths. 01:17:22.320 --> 01:17:24.870 You should go and visit it. 01:17:24.870 --> 01:17:27.330 That's all I can recommend. 01:17:27.330 --> 01:17:31.170 See if you can make any sense of it. 01:17:31.170 --> 01:17:33.210 You've lived in Jerusalem, haven't you? 01:17:33.210 --> 01:17:34.920 AUDIENCE: I never lived in Jerusalem. 01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:36.327 JULIAN BEINART: You never-- 01:17:36.327 --> 01:17:38.160 AUDIENCE: I've been there hundreds of times, 01:17:38.160 --> 01:17:40.915 but never [INAUDIBLE] for more than one night. 01:17:40.915 --> 01:17:41.790 JULIAN BEINART: Yeah. 01:17:47.630 --> 01:17:51.980 The first immigrant Zionists saw Jerusalem 01:17:51.980 --> 01:17:56.870 as an old-fashioned historically-bound city. 01:17:56.870 --> 01:18:06.710 And [INAUDIBLE] chose to make Tel Aviv the capital, 01:18:06.710 --> 01:18:10.820 or Haifa the capital facing the Mediterranean, 01:18:10.820 --> 01:18:19.390 or in the case of Ben-Gurion, the new city of [INAUDIBLE].. 01:18:19.390 --> 01:18:23.540 It's Chaim Weizmann who found Jerusalem 01:18:23.540 --> 01:18:30.320 to be archaic and medieval, and the new Jewish Zionist spirit 01:18:30.320 --> 01:18:41.590 was in favor of novelty and social equity, and some 01:18:41.590 --> 01:18:46.420 of the things which it hasn't been able to perpetuate. 01:18:46.420 --> 01:18:49.450 OK, we'll do Johannesburg on Thursday 01:18:49.450 --> 01:18:52.590 and see if there's any comparison.