1 00:00:05,660 --> 00:00:08,090 SARAH HANSEN: So how did you become interested 2 00:00:08,090 --> 00:00:10,228 in computation structures? 3 00:00:10,228 --> 00:00:12,020 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, in the early '70s 4 00:00:12,020 --> 00:00:15,470 I was a college student trying to earn my way through college. 5 00:00:15,470 --> 00:00:19,550 And so I was the computer operator on the third shift 6 00:00:19,550 --> 00:00:21,200 for the campus computer. 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,150 That was in the era in which you could only afford one. 8 00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:26,960 And since watching the blinking lights was boring, 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,530 I pulled out the schematics for the computer I 10 00:00:30,530 --> 00:00:34,010 was running for the university. 11 00:00:34,010 --> 00:00:37,880 And I started trying to figure out how the computer worked. 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,370 Ever since then, it's been sort of a lifelong interest 13 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:43,820 in figuring out, how do they actually 14 00:00:43,820 --> 00:00:46,220 put together these components to make a machine that 15 00:00:46,220 --> 00:00:48,620 can do computation? 16 00:00:48,620 --> 00:00:50,060 SARAH HANSEN: And that interest is 17 00:00:50,060 --> 00:00:52,730 coupled with your interest in teaching and learning, 18 00:00:52,730 --> 00:00:56,145 and especially online education. 19 00:00:56,145 --> 00:00:57,770 Could you talk a little bit about where 20 00:00:57,770 --> 00:01:00,020 that interest comes from? 21 00:01:00,020 --> 00:01:04,970 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, I was always fascinated 22 00:01:04,970 --> 00:01:09,650 and very motivated by the great teachers I could listen to. 23 00:01:09,650 --> 00:01:12,440 And so everybody picks a model when they're 24 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,150 a teenager or a young adult. They say, 25 00:01:14,150 --> 00:01:15,710 I want to be like so-and-so. 26 00:01:15,710 --> 00:01:17,270 Well, the so-and-sos I liked to pick 27 00:01:17,270 --> 00:01:19,280 were the excellent teachers I had. 28 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,820 So I said, I'm going to try to be the best teacher I can. 29 00:01:22,820 --> 00:01:25,670 There's something very satisfying about teaching 30 00:01:25,670 --> 00:01:28,160 students and having them nod and suddenly get it. 31 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:35,940 So it's been sort of a very fulfilling experience to teach. 32 00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:38,270 And so that's sort of a virtuous cycle, right? 33 00:01:38,270 --> 00:01:40,580 You get good vibes from teaching. 34 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:42,290 And then you do it better next year. 35 00:01:42,290 --> 00:01:43,340 And you get better vibes. 36 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:46,370 And so for 40 years, that's been a great-- 37 00:01:46,370 --> 00:01:48,078 it's been great. 38 00:01:48,078 --> 00:01:50,120 SARAH HANSEN: What kind of background experiences 39 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,700 do the students bring related to computation structures? 40 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:53,920 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It's all over the map. 41 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:54,890 It's all over the map. 42 00:01:54,890 --> 00:01:59,390 So some of them will come having programmed computers 43 00:01:59,390 --> 00:02:01,730 for a long time, and maybe even know a little bit 44 00:02:01,730 --> 00:02:05,030 about how the computers are structured on the insides. 45 00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:07,220 Other people have not done beans. 46 00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:10,070 They're just-- I wanted to take a course. 47 00:02:10,070 --> 00:02:13,130 I've used computers, sort of browsers, 48 00:02:13,130 --> 00:02:14,750 laptops, email, sort of thing. 49 00:02:14,750 --> 00:02:20,960 But they have no idea about the OS or the actual hardware 50 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,950 inside. 51 00:02:21,950 --> 00:02:25,670 And so they come with interest, but no background at all. 52 00:02:25,670 --> 00:02:29,120 SARAH HANSEN: So how do you structure a course 53 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,300 to meet the needs of people with diverse backgrounds like that? 54 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:33,383 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Right. 55 00:02:33,383 --> 00:02:40,100 So to handle really diverse backgrounds, 56 00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:42,830 you have to have a huge range of materials. 57 00:02:42,830 --> 00:02:44,800 So you need something that somebody who just-- 58 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,370 I need to start at the beginning. 59 00:02:46,370 --> 00:02:48,410 You need a beginning for them to start at. 60 00:02:48,410 --> 00:02:50,823 And for somebody who's sort of past the first half 61 00:02:50,823 --> 00:02:52,740 of your material, you need a second half which 62 00:02:52,740 --> 00:02:54,590 will engage their interests. 63 00:02:54,590 --> 00:02:56,760 So I create a huge-- 64 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,040 I think of it as a buffet. 65 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,590 There's lots of dishes. 66 00:02:59,590 --> 00:03:01,700 And you can start at the beginning of the buffet 67 00:03:01,700 --> 00:03:04,910 and sort of pick it up from scratch. 68 00:03:04,910 --> 00:03:08,300 Or you can say, I'll skip the first couple courses, 69 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:11,000 and I'm ready to dive in sort of in the middle 70 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,650 of the conversation somewhere. 71 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:15,680 So I think the real key is having a huge selection 72 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,060 of materials to draw from. 73 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:20,810 And that's, I think, one of the hallmarks of 6.004 74 00:03:20,810 --> 00:03:24,958 has been that we have every possible way 75 00:03:24,958 --> 00:03:26,000 of learning the material. 76 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,490 So not only for different backgrounds, 77 00:03:28,490 --> 00:03:30,300 but for different learning styles. 78 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:33,770 So some students want to talk or listen. 79 00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:35,240 Some students want to read. 80 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,460 Some students just want to work on P-sets 81 00:03:37,460 --> 00:03:41,675 and do just-in-time learning, where they sort of say, 82 00:03:41,675 --> 00:03:42,800 here's what I need to know. 83 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,220 Now I'll go look at the material, 84 00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:46,760 just find the worked example, and if I 85 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,380 don't understand the worked example, 86 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:51,230 I'll go actually read the text. 87 00:03:51,230 --> 00:03:55,480 So they actually only get to the beginning of, if you will, 88 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,850 the introductory or the explanatory material only, 89 00:03:58,850 --> 00:04:01,070 and as a last resort if they somehow 90 00:04:01,070 --> 00:04:02,990 didn't pick it up from before. 91 00:04:02,990 --> 00:04:03,110 SARAH HANSEN: That's interesting. 92 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:05,690 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So many different learning styles, 93 00:04:05,690 --> 00:04:07,580 many different backgrounds. 94 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:13,850 SARAH HANSEN: How has the MITx Residential platform enabled 95 00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:17,131 you to provide this buffet? 96 00:04:17,131 --> 00:04:18,589 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, one, it's 97 00:04:18,589 --> 00:04:21,920 a one-stop shop for all the different sorts of materials. 98 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,310 And the other is there's sort of an emerging best practice 99 00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:30,260 about how to explain material to people for the first time. 100 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:34,760 So you want to do short bites; sound bites, video bites. 101 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:36,800 You know, those short segments of learning 102 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,280 where you introduce a single skill or a single concept. 103 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:43,580 And then you take a moment to actually give them 104 00:04:43,580 --> 00:04:46,370 some check yourself questions. 105 00:04:46,370 --> 00:04:49,370 So the idea is in theory you just listened to this 106 00:04:49,370 --> 00:04:50,760 or watched it. 107 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,310 I'm going to ask you some simple questions, not puzzlers. 108 00:04:53,310 --> 00:04:55,460 They're just if you understood what I just 109 00:04:55,460 --> 00:04:58,310 told you on the video, then you can answer them. 110 00:04:58,310 --> 00:05:00,620 And so that gives those students a chance 111 00:05:00,620 --> 00:05:03,440 to start the process of retrieval learning, 112 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,920 where you keep coming back again and again. 113 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,950 And I'll ask you a similar sort of question two segments later. 114 00:05:08,950 --> 00:05:11,128 And pretty soon, you're pulling it out 115 00:05:11,128 --> 00:05:13,420 of your short-term, and then medium-term, and long-term 116 00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:15,490 memories. 117 00:05:15,490 --> 00:05:20,620 So the MITx platform works really 118 00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:23,680 well at letting you construct those sort of learning 119 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:24,850 sequences. 120 00:05:24,850 --> 00:05:26,680 And I think the students appreciate it. 121 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,900 Everything is more and more bite-sized. 122 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:31,000 We both know, as you can imagine, 123 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,080 pushing play on a 50-minute video and along about minute-- 124 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,870 well, I'm going to say 37, but along about minute six, 125 00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:40,007 you're going to be, all right, maybe I 126 00:05:40,007 --> 00:05:42,090 should check my email while I'm listening to this. 127 00:05:42,090 --> 00:05:42,600 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 128 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,250 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It's keeping things short and sweet. 129 00:05:45,250 --> 00:05:46,890 So you have a huge-- 130 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:49,510 because now you have a bunch of short bites. 131 00:05:49,510 --> 00:05:52,210 Now, the MITx platform lets you organize 132 00:05:52,210 --> 00:05:55,390 those with questions that let you sort of continue 133 00:05:55,390 --> 00:05:56,750 to test your learning. 134 00:05:56,750 --> 00:06:02,140 So it's actually worked out to be a very nice way of making 135 00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:05,290 a fairly organized tour through the material 136 00:06:05,290 --> 00:06:09,400 that the students can start, and stop, and come back to. 137 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:10,570 Plus it's asynchronous. 138 00:06:10,570 --> 00:06:14,770 In other words, they get to choose their time and place. 139 00:06:14,770 --> 00:06:17,710 And us teachers always have a fantasy, well, 140 00:06:17,710 --> 00:06:19,775 they didn't come to lecture, so I'm sure at 3:00 141 00:06:19,775 --> 00:06:21,400 in the morning when they're wide awake, 142 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,420 they're actually watching it. 143 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:23,590 SARAH HANSEN: Of course. 144 00:06:23,590 --> 00:06:24,130 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: If you actually 145 00:06:24,130 --> 00:06:26,080 look at the statistics for the viewing, 146 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,560 there's a lot of viewing that happens in quiz weeks. 147 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,120 So a lot of people may be using it as sort of a, 148 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,030 OK, I want the intense, immersive introduction 149 00:06:37,030 --> 00:06:37,970 to the material. 150 00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:39,115 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 151 00:06:39,115 --> 00:06:41,320 This must be just such an exciting time for you 152 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,750 as someone who's really interested in the scholarship 153 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:45,167 of teaching and learning, and then 154 00:06:45,167 --> 00:06:47,650 the emergence of these digital tools 155 00:06:47,650 --> 00:06:51,160 to enable that learning through best practices. 156 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,978 I can feel your enthusiasm for kind of the era that we're in. 157 00:06:54,978 --> 00:06:56,020 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Yeah. 158 00:06:56,020 --> 00:07:01,030 Well, so much of how us people-- or those of us who 159 00:07:01,030 --> 00:07:05,830 teach at the university level, we get handed a piece of chalk 160 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:08,883 and be told to teach, unlike the teachers 161 00:07:08,883 --> 00:07:10,300 for your kids in elementary school 162 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:12,940 who've actually gone through a program that teaches them 163 00:07:12,940 --> 00:07:13,590 how to teach. 164 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:16,340 We're just said, here teach. 165 00:07:16,340 --> 00:07:18,070 And so it's all anecdotal. 166 00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:22,090 It's all trying to remember how people taught you. 167 00:07:22,090 --> 00:07:25,060 Finally, we have the online courses providing 168 00:07:25,060 --> 00:07:26,950 a real educational laboratory. 169 00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:29,020 We're able to try out different techniques. 170 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:32,350 We're able to make fairly accurate assessments 171 00:07:32,350 --> 00:07:35,380 of how well did that just work, whether it 172 00:07:35,380 --> 00:07:39,430 was an exercise, or a video segment, or a design problem. 173 00:07:39,430 --> 00:07:44,080 And so we can actually do A/B tests in the same cadre. 174 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,020 So it's pretty neat having a lab. 175 00:07:47,020 --> 00:07:49,450 I mean, as a scientist and engineer, you can say, look, 176 00:07:49,450 --> 00:07:52,670 I know about the hypothesis. 177 00:07:52,670 --> 00:07:55,300 Test it through a bunch of experiments. 178 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:57,918 We can really do the experiments with the MITx platform. 179 00:07:57,918 --> 00:07:58,960 And so that's been great. 180 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,430 SARAH HANSEN: Yeah, it's really exciting. 181 00:08:00,430 --> 00:08:01,630 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It is. 182 00:08:01,630 --> 00:08:04,870 SARAH HANSEN: Let's talk about learning in the classroom 183 00:08:04,870 --> 00:08:09,310 and teaching large lecture classes. 184 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:13,855 What strategies do you have for keeping students engaged? 185 00:08:13,855 --> 00:08:15,730 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, that's interesting. 186 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:20,360 Because we have so many different materials, 187 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,360 really the only students who come to lecture 188 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,740 are the ones for whom lecture is how they learn. 189 00:08:25,740 --> 00:08:27,010 And I was such a student. 190 00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:27,940 SARAH HANSEN: I see. 191 00:08:27,940 --> 00:08:30,820 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So the people 192 00:08:30,820 --> 00:08:34,480 who are there are not a draft army. 193 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:35,534 They're all volunteers. 194 00:08:35,534 --> 00:08:37,380 SARAH HANSEN: Self-selected. 195 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:40,600 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So they're prepared to be somewhat engaged 196 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:41,867 by a vocal presentation. 197 00:08:41,867 --> 00:08:42,700 SARAH HANSEN: I see. 198 00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:47,290 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So I have a well-developed set of materials 199 00:08:47,290 --> 00:08:49,240 that I present in class that have 200 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,140 sort of been debugged for having not too much or too little. 201 00:08:53,140 --> 00:08:56,680 A progression that most people can follow. 202 00:08:56,680 --> 00:09:00,340 And then happily, when you teach for a while, 203 00:09:00,340 --> 00:09:01,960 you start to get more relaxed. 204 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,260 And so it's a very relaxed sort of experience. 205 00:09:05,260 --> 00:09:05,980 I tell jokes. 206 00:09:05,980 --> 00:09:07,960 I tell stories from my career. 207 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,260 And it's interesting to me how when the students are making 208 00:09:11,260 --> 00:09:14,320 comments at the end of the semester on the evaluations, 209 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,840 many of them say, I really liked the stories. 210 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:17,923 SARAH HANSEN: Interesting. 211 00:09:17,923 --> 00:09:19,750 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So after boring you 212 00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:21,580 with technical details, it's fun to say, 213 00:09:21,580 --> 00:09:23,410 and then when I tried to use that, 214 00:09:23,410 --> 00:09:25,650 this following thing happened. 215 00:09:25,650 --> 00:09:28,390 And all of a sudden, they're sort of perking up, saying, oh. 216 00:09:28,390 --> 00:09:30,580 SARAH HANSEN: And I think it helps them remember the related 217 00:09:30,580 --> 00:09:30,970 content, too. 218 00:09:30,970 --> 00:09:31,600 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It does. 219 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:32,100 It does. 220 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:34,690 When you think about what you remember from lectures, 221 00:09:34,690 --> 00:09:36,790 it's almost never a technical nugget. 222 00:09:36,790 --> 00:09:40,480 It's a joke they told, or an accident that happened, 223 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,700 or a mistake that was made. 224 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:41,990 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 225 00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:43,750 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And so it's-- 226 00:09:43,750 --> 00:09:47,090 there's this concept called fluency, 227 00:09:47,090 --> 00:09:50,640 which is basically how smoothly things are going, 228 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,190 and everybody's nodding. 229 00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:56,080 So your mind is starting to drift, because it's all-- 230 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,140 so it's actually good to try to put a little disfluency 231 00:09:59,140 --> 00:10:02,232 into your lecture, to actually have a-- you stop, 232 00:10:02,232 --> 00:10:03,407 and you tell a joke. 233 00:10:03,407 --> 00:10:04,240 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 234 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,990 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Or you make a mistake, 235 00:10:05,990 --> 00:10:08,020 or you drop the chalk, and say, darn, 236 00:10:08,020 --> 00:10:09,190 and you look at the floor. 237 00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:10,600 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 238 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,058 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And here's what 239 00:10:12,058 --> 00:10:14,320 I like to do is you walk out from behind the lecture 240 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,880 table or lectern, and you approach the audience. 241 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,340 And you can see them sort of going, wait, he's escaped. 242 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:26,530 So just anything that sort of switches up the sort of I'm 243 00:10:26,530 --> 00:10:28,300 just going along with the flow here. 244 00:10:28,300 --> 00:10:33,160 So making little flows that have things that change 245 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,700 make a lot of difference in keeping people sort of engaged. 246 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:39,280 SARAH HANSEN: That's a great tip. 247 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,640 Let's talk for a second about the teaching team. 248 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,530 I understand there are a fair number 249 00:10:44,530 --> 00:10:48,040 of people involved in developing and teaching this course. 250 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,240 Could you talk about that? 251 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,240 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, we have a little cadre 252 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,650 of people who are instructors. 253 00:10:53,650 --> 00:10:56,440 I've been sort of part of that cadre every semester 254 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,120 for a very long time. 255 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,180 But we have other people who come in from the outside. 256 00:11:01,180 --> 00:11:05,710 In recent years, the department has added lecturer resources. 257 00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:08,770 So there's another lecturer associated with it. 258 00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:10,780 And then faculty come in. 259 00:11:10,780 --> 00:11:12,898 And they provide a little depth to the gene pool. 260 00:11:12,898 --> 00:11:13,690 SARAH HANSEN: Sure. 261 00:11:13,690 --> 00:11:15,880 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: But then we have graduate TAs 262 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,350 who teach recitations. 263 00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:23,170 And we have student undergraduate TAs, and then 264 00:11:23,170 --> 00:11:23,920 lab assistants. 265 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,930 So sort of we have this whole hierarchy. 266 00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:27,790 They've all taken the course. 267 00:11:27,790 --> 00:11:29,860 Almost, they've all loved it. 268 00:11:29,860 --> 00:11:32,770 So I mean, it's sort of the material that people say, 269 00:11:32,770 --> 00:11:34,330 oh, this is really pretty neat. 270 00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:36,400 I can't wait to tell the next person about how this works. 271 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,233 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 272 00:11:37,233 --> 00:11:40,900 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And so as they sit there and work 273 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:43,990 with the students, sort of like me, 274 00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:46,000 there's an enthusiasm that sort of bubbles out. 275 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,330 SARAH HANSEN: It's contagious. 276 00:11:47,330 --> 00:11:48,460 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Yeah. 277 00:11:48,460 --> 00:11:50,470 And the students actually-- 278 00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:52,900 I sort of listed things sort of-- 279 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:54,360 well, I was going to say top down. 280 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,290 I'm not sure lecturers are at the top 281 00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:59,288 or instructors are at the top. 282 00:11:59,288 --> 00:12:01,330 But the students actually prefer the other thing, 283 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:06,590 which is actually asking an LA is not very intimidating. 284 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:09,250 The students, maybe they just took it last semester. 285 00:12:09,250 --> 00:12:11,170 And so they have it fresh in their minds 286 00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:15,100 what it is they needed to do in order to get whatever 287 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,410 it is they're trying to get. 288 00:12:17,410 --> 00:12:19,720 And then you sort of work the chain up, 289 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:25,930 work up the hierarchy to get an answer of people below. 290 00:12:25,930 --> 00:12:27,940 And that way you're only asking questions 291 00:12:27,940 --> 00:12:30,700 of the more intimidating people when 292 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:33,140 you're pretty sure that no one else has the answer. 293 00:12:33,140 --> 00:12:36,340 So it's really-- by the time the questions sort of get to me, 294 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:40,690 mostly no one is worried that they're a dumb question. 295 00:12:40,690 --> 00:12:43,093 Now, I don't really believe in dumb questions. 296 00:12:43,093 --> 00:12:45,010 I think all questions are sort of interesting. 297 00:12:45,010 --> 00:12:49,000 But I think the students are, look, I asked 10 people. 298 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,250 None of us knew, so now we can ask you. 299 00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:54,970 And I'm pretty confident that it wasn't an obvious thing 300 00:12:54,970 --> 00:12:59,410 that if I only read the assignment I would have known. 301 00:12:59,410 --> 00:13:04,120 So that sort of range of sort of experience level and age, 302 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,310 at the high end of the experience level, 303 00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:07,900 you can get an answer to any question. 304 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:09,880 At the beginning end of the experience level, 305 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,220 you're talking to somebody who-- 306 00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:12,660 SARAH HANSEN: Just had that experience 307 00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:15,077 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Just months ago did what you're doing. 308 00:13:15,077 --> 00:13:16,660 And so we can be-- 309 00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:19,120 I can ask you, and we won't be embarrassed. 310 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,890 SARAH HANSEN: Right, right. 311 00:13:20,890 --> 00:13:23,490 What's the role of the online fora 312 00:13:23,490 --> 00:13:25,570 in the course for helping students feel 313 00:13:25,570 --> 00:13:27,220 comfortable asking questions? 314 00:13:27,220 --> 00:13:29,320 And how do you monitor it? 315 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:30,930 How do you run it productively? 316 00:13:30,930 --> 00:13:34,990 This is something that educators sometimes struggle with. 317 00:13:34,990 --> 00:13:38,050 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, I mean, to me, 318 00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:39,400 it's a wonderful asset. 319 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,670 For the first time I'm able to make a thoughtful answer 320 00:13:42,670 --> 00:13:45,370 to a question and have 180 people look 321 00:13:45,370 --> 00:13:46,770 at the answer instead of one. 322 00:13:46,770 --> 00:13:49,270 And then the next person who has the same question, you say, 323 00:13:49,270 --> 00:13:52,270 well, I just spent 10 minutes. 324 00:13:52,270 --> 00:13:55,120 And with a large class, you can't spend 10 minutes 325 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,930 for each of 300 people. 326 00:13:57,930 --> 00:14:00,670 So it's a great place to ask questions. 327 00:14:00,670 --> 00:14:03,610 I try to always give a thoughtful and respectful 328 00:14:03,610 --> 00:14:06,400 answer to each question. 329 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,200 So even if the question is sort of like, 330 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,900 well, if you had done the reading, you would known, 331 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,570 I say, well, if you look back at the material, 332 00:14:13,570 --> 00:14:16,510 you'll see it explains the following. 333 00:14:16,510 --> 00:14:18,070 Try to make it not-- 334 00:14:18,070 --> 00:14:22,010 a little hint that maybe a little bit more preparation. 335 00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:24,498 But many of the questions are, look, I read the material. 336 00:14:24,498 --> 00:14:25,540 I'm still not getting it. 337 00:14:25,540 --> 00:14:28,430 I need an example. 338 00:14:28,430 --> 00:14:30,430 And so the students, I try to make students 339 00:14:30,430 --> 00:14:31,802 feel very comfortable asking. 340 00:14:31,802 --> 00:14:33,010 It's never-- there's nothing. 341 00:14:33,010 --> 00:14:33,760 No cost. 342 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,410 They can ask anonymously, so that 343 00:14:35,410 --> 00:14:36,730 removes some of the barrier. 344 00:14:36,730 --> 00:14:37,900 SARAH HANSEN: OK. 345 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:40,555 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And then I think-- let's see. 346 00:14:40,555 --> 00:14:45,340 In the fall of 2017, we had about 2,500 contributions 347 00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:46,050 to the forum. 348 00:14:46,050 --> 00:14:46,445 SARAH HANSEN: Wow. 349 00:14:46,445 --> 00:14:46,840 OK. 350 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,715 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: The average response time 351 00:14:48,715 --> 00:14:50,800 is about 20 minutes. 352 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,160 And so you say, wait, but students are asking questions 353 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,200 at 3:00 AM. 354 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,280 How does that work? 355 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,090 And it turns out that we have TAs. 356 00:15:01,090 --> 00:15:03,053 We particularly have some really good-- 357 00:15:03,053 --> 00:15:04,220 SARAH HANSEN: Nocturnal TAs. 358 00:15:04,220 --> 00:15:05,800 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Yes, exactly. 359 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,610 At 3:00 AM they're just hitting their stride. 360 00:15:08,610 --> 00:15:10,360 A lot of us who are involved in the course 361 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,090 sort of have-- we put the notification 362 00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:15,010 of postings on real time. 363 00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:17,170 And so we get an email right away. 364 00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:21,490 And so often we can just type in an answer. 365 00:15:21,490 --> 00:15:22,270 And it's-- 366 00:15:22,270 --> 00:15:23,170 SARAH HANSEN: OK. 367 00:15:23,170 --> 00:15:25,120 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And I'm really-- 368 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,463 I think the fast response time really reduces the frustration 369 00:15:28,463 --> 00:15:29,380 level of the students. 370 00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:29,800 SARAH HANSEN: Ah. 371 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:30,310 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: There's nothing 372 00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:31,717 like being stuck on something. 373 00:15:31,717 --> 00:15:32,550 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 374 00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:35,320 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And say, I wish I could ask somebody. 375 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,800 Well, for the first time, it's 3:12 in the morning. 376 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,130 And you can say, wait, I can ask, and I can get an answer. 377 00:15:43,130 --> 00:15:46,300 And the students really, really appreciate that. 378 00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:48,760 So the forum has really, I think, 379 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:54,700 changed students' level of frustration 380 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:56,860 when they get stuck. 381 00:15:56,860 --> 00:16:00,977 Being stuck is just a 10-minute process, not a two-day process. 382 00:16:00,977 --> 00:16:01,810 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 383 00:16:01,810 --> 00:16:03,220 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: My god, the next office hours 384 00:16:03,220 --> 00:16:04,137 are after the weekend. 385 00:16:04,137 --> 00:16:05,610 What do I do? 386 00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:08,770 And of course, a lot of students are doing work outside 387 00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:10,960 of sort of 9:00 to 5:00 hours. 388 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,460 So it's a way for the staff to be a 24/7 staff instead of just 389 00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:18,730 a 9:00 to 5:00, five days a week staff. 390 00:16:18,730 --> 00:16:22,120 The staff like-- and then the students work like that, too. 391 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,270 Most of the people who are helping on the forum 392 00:16:25,270 --> 00:16:27,940 are keeping the same schedule as the users of the forum. 393 00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:30,120 So it's a good match. 394 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,630 SARAH HANSEN: OK. 395 00:16:31,630 --> 00:16:33,760 Let's talk for a minute about the lab 396 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,520 experiences in the course. 397 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,100 So students get hands-on experience 398 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:40,620 doing digital design. 399 00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:41,620 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Yes. 400 00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:43,330 SARAH HANSEN: Could you talk about a few 401 00:16:43,330 --> 00:16:44,410 of those experiences? 402 00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:47,770 And also, does that take place here where we are right now? 403 00:16:47,770 --> 00:16:48,800 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, you can do it anywhere. 404 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:49,640 It's browser-based. 405 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,140 So there's no software to download. 406 00:16:51,140 --> 00:16:51,880 It's just on the web. 407 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:52,380 You go. 408 00:16:52,380 --> 00:16:53,810 SARAH HANSEN: I see. 409 00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:55,643 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And so one of the things 410 00:16:55,643 --> 00:16:58,600 I enjoy doing is to build browser-based computer-aided 411 00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,570 design tools. 412 00:16:59,570 --> 00:17:02,260 It turns out that they actually work really well. 413 00:17:02,260 --> 00:17:03,850 The modern browser environments are 414 00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:07,470 quite capable as a programming environment. 415 00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:10,300 You have to learn a few tricks, but once you do, it works well. 416 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:13,450 So they're reasonably high-performing tools. 417 00:17:13,450 --> 00:17:15,819 They can sit down and do. 418 00:17:15,819 --> 00:17:20,140 Much of the design work we do is sort of design-driven learning, 419 00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:22,599 where we're actually trying to get them to build something 420 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:23,474 that we've described. 421 00:17:23,474 --> 00:17:24,550 SARAH HANSEN: I see. 422 00:17:24,550 --> 00:17:26,633 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And we may have even told them 423 00:17:26,633 --> 00:17:28,630 in quite some detail how it fits together, 424 00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:31,270 but there's something about the old muscle memory bit 425 00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:33,970 about if you actually build it yourself, drag 426 00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:36,860 the components on and wire them up, 427 00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:38,620 you'll remember it much better. 428 00:17:38,620 --> 00:17:41,897 Or you'll ask yourself, wait, does this go here or here? 429 00:17:41,897 --> 00:17:43,480 And then you say-- then you look back, 430 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,580 and you're starting to say, I'm looking 431 00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:47,680 at this diagram, the instructions, 432 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,860 for the first time with enough care to appreciate that, 433 00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:53,860 oh, I have to put it this way in order for it to work. 434 00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:57,460 And so we're sort of-- 435 00:17:57,460 --> 00:18:00,220 hand and eye are engaged. 436 00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:03,890 It's not just a listening experience. 437 00:18:03,890 --> 00:18:06,160 We are able to-- if you assemble something, 438 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,400 we build tests to see if it functions correctly. 439 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,033 And so you can tell right away whether you've screwed it up. 440 00:18:13,033 --> 00:18:16,170 It's not like, well, I turn it in, and a week later-- 441 00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:18,740 long past when I've ceased to care-- 442 00:18:18,740 --> 00:18:22,560 I get back a red X. And I say, OK, well, dang. 443 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,130 So here they have to get it right in order to complete it, 444 00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:28,503 but we tell them right away that it's not right. 445 00:18:28,503 --> 00:18:29,670 And they keep working on it. 446 00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:31,900 Or they post on Piazza. 447 00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:33,510 My circuit doesn't work. 448 00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:36,030 The staff can pull it up remotely from the server, 449 00:18:36,030 --> 00:18:39,900 and say, oh, here's where-- here's your mistake. 450 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:43,800 So the idea is that the students are actually being engineers. 451 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,360 This may be one of the first actual build-it experiences 452 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:49,590 they have. 453 00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:52,760 Again, these are sophomores, right? 454 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,295 So it's a little bit of fun to say, well, 455 00:18:55,295 --> 00:18:56,170 this is sort of neat. 456 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,610 I've actually put together the circuit and debugged it. 457 00:19:02,610 --> 00:19:04,230 So I had to say, well, what was wrong? 458 00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:05,130 I got a wrong thing. 459 00:19:05,130 --> 00:19:06,330 What did I do wrong? 460 00:19:06,330 --> 00:19:07,630 And then fix it. 461 00:19:07,630 --> 00:19:10,080 So that's a very valuable experience. 462 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,940 So it's one thing. 463 00:19:11,940 --> 00:19:14,320 It's like the late night TV salesman. 464 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,600 When you watch them, use it. 465 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:16,560 It's so easy. 466 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:17,440 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 467 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,440 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: But you get the widget home. 468 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,677 And it doesn't work. 469 00:19:20,677 --> 00:19:22,510 And so that's-- they've seen it in lectures. 470 00:19:22,510 --> 00:19:23,880 They've seen it on the videos. 471 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,640 They've seen it the worked examples. 472 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,180 And it's all extremely obvious that this is straightforward 473 00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:31,410 until you do it yourself. 474 00:19:31,410 --> 00:19:33,030 And then you fill in all the pieces, 475 00:19:33,030 --> 00:19:37,110 that you were just being, oh, how hard could that be? 476 00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:38,207 Oh, now I know. 477 00:19:38,207 --> 00:19:39,040 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 478 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,540 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So they work hard at trying to fix that. 479 00:19:41,540 --> 00:19:43,980 And I think the whole idea of these virtual lab benches 480 00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:46,740 is great. 481 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:49,290 As I said, the execution environment 482 00:19:49,290 --> 00:19:52,890 and the graphics environment on the browser is first rate. 483 00:19:52,890 --> 00:19:56,250 It's very easy to build sophisticated tools that 484 00:19:56,250 --> 00:20:00,340 use reasonably complex calculations in the background 485 00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:03,810 and have a really great user interface. 486 00:20:03,810 --> 00:20:06,920 And the browser is portable. 487 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,270 So 20 years ago I gave you software 488 00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:12,760 to download on your computer to do this stuff. 489 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:13,890 The landmine that was. 490 00:20:13,890 --> 00:20:15,580 Everybody's environment was a little different. 491 00:20:15,580 --> 00:20:17,540 Oh, you don't have the latest version of that library? 492 00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:18,582 Well, you can't run this. 493 00:20:18,582 --> 00:20:22,080 But if you update your library, you can't run that. 494 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,920 It was really a nightmare. 495 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,280 So packaging things-- packaging up these lab 496 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,320 experiences in a way that they can be used 497 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,590 by people around the world. 498 00:20:34,590 --> 00:20:35,370 So here I was. 499 00:20:35,370 --> 00:20:38,940 I was riding on the Hong Kong subway. 500 00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:43,510 And some young adult comes up to me and says, 501 00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:44,575 I took your MITx course. 502 00:20:44,575 --> 00:20:45,450 SARAH HANSEN: Really? 503 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:47,490 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And I really loved doing the circuit stuff. 504 00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:49,115 And I didn't have to download anything. 505 00:20:49,115 --> 00:20:50,700 And I'm sort of going, wow. 506 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:51,510 I mean, this is-- 507 00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:52,760 SARAH HANSEN: It's incredible. 508 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:53,843 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It is. 509 00:20:53,843 --> 00:20:55,960 It's interesting to be stopped by people. 510 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:56,793 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 511 00:20:56,793 --> 00:20:58,210 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And they start 512 00:20:58,210 --> 00:21:00,900 talking about how this was more than just a listening 513 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:01,440 experience. 514 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,320 So these virtual labs actually go from being something that-- 515 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,510 I mean, it takes courses from being a listening 516 00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:15,030 experience with maybe some pencil P-sets to your hands 517 00:21:15,030 --> 00:21:16,200 are active. 518 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,780 So hands-on, brain on, right? 519 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:22,720 And when people's brains turn on, it's amazing what-- 520 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:23,970 they remember it. 521 00:21:23,970 --> 00:21:26,600 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 522 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,300 So what kind of challenges do students 523 00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:33,050 encounter when they're trying their hand at being engineers 524 00:21:33,050 --> 00:21:35,240 for the first time? 525 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,030 Is there anything that tends to pop up again and again? 526 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,300 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So I think a lot of this 527 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:46,980 is sort of competence. 528 00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:52,988 So people sometimes-- the students come to me, and say, 529 00:21:52,988 --> 00:21:54,030 I want to make this work. 530 00:21:54,030 --> 00:21:56,180 And I say, OK, let me look at your design. 531 00:21:56,180 --> 00:21:57,230 Let's fix it. 532 00:21:57,230 --> 00:21:58,010 And I go through. 533 00:21:58,010 --> 00:22:01,490 And I try to keep my hands in my pockets 534 00:22:01,490 --> 00:22:02,930 and let them do the fixing. 535 00:22:02,930 --> 00:22:05,100 But I say, have you thought about this? 536 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:07,790 If this works and that doesn't, what does that tell you? 537 00:22:07,790 --> 00:22:11,090 So a lot of students aren't very good at taking 538 00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:13,460 the information they do know and using 539 00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:15,720 it to deduce the next thing to try 540 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,080 or the next thing to test and to narrow down 541 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,310 where the problem is. 542 00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:21,140 So there's a real-- there's a learning-- 543 00:22:21,140 --> 00:22:24,050 something you have to learn how to do is to be organized about 544 00:22:24,050 --> 00:22:28,710 how taking something that isn't working-- 545 00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:30,860 or complicated things, so parts of it are working, 546 00:22:30,860 --> 00:22:32,150 but something isn't. 547 00:22:32,150 --> 00:22:34,190 And trying to work back from both 548 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:36,830 ends to somewhere in the middle that doesn't work. 549 00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:40,460 And so that's a skill that you have to practice for a while. 550 00:22:40,460 --> 00:22:43,940 And we try to help with that skill. 551 00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:46,070 I have a lot of confidence that will work. 552 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:48,920 Most students are pretty convinced that either 553 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,075 the simulator is broken or is hopeless. 554 00:22:52,075 --> 00:22:53,450 And so they're somewhat surprised 555 00:22:53,450 --> 00:22:56,450 to realize that there is a systematic way 556 00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:58,100 to make something that works. 557 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:03,950 And once they are convinced that that's actually true, 558 00:23:03,950 --> 00:23:06,740 they are getting more confident that, oh, it doesn't work now, 559 00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:09,890 but I'll just work on it for 10 minutes, and I'm sure it will. 560 00:23:09,890 --> 00:23:12,620 As opposed to just saying, oh, the only thing I can do 561 00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:14,660 is to raise my hand and say, could you help me? 562 00:23:14,660 --> 00:23:16,160 Because it isn't working. 563 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,720 So we try to get the students out 564 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,840 of, look, your job is to actually make it work, 565 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,877 not to merely ask us to come over and watch us make it work. 566 00:23:24,877 --> 00:23:25,710 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 567 00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:28,628 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And so students make that transition 568 00:23:28,628 --> 00:23:29,420 through the course. 569 00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:30,230 SARAH HANSEN: So it seems-- 570 00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:31,500 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: The course of the course. 571 00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:32,333 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 572 00:23:32,333 --> 00:23:34,310 So it seems like a learning goal in the course 573 00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:37,050 is not only learning the architecture 574 00:23:37,050 --> 00:23:40,100 of digital systems, but also developing 575 00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:43,520 professional competencies in the sense of attitudes 576 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,487 that engineers embrace. 577 00:23:44,487 --> 00:23:45,570 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Right. 578 00:23:45,570 --> 00:23:47,840 There's a bunch of processes that you have to go through. 579 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,100 SARAH HANSEN: Processes. 580 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:50,450 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And the same thing is true of all learning. 581 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:51,980 Learning how to learn is something 582 00:23:51,980 --> 00:23:54,290 that sophomores are still doing. 583 00:23:54,290 --> 00:23:57,860 And so this is probably the first time 584 00:23:57,860 --> 00:24:01,520 that they've been sort of thrown into the deep end. 585 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,940 We try to have lots of lifeguards standing by. 586 00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:07,040 But we're prepared to do more than just 587 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,630 check off on our clipboard, sink or swim. 588 00:24:09,630 --> 00:24:13,380 I mean, we're ready to dive in, and say, OK, try this. 589 00:24:13,380 --> 00:24:14,900 Try that. 590 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:19,760 It's actually pretty helpful to have an experience like this 591 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,610 after your freshman year, which has a lot of training wheels, 592 00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:24,530 but before your upper level classes 593 00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:29,020 where help is a little thin. 594 00:24:29,020 --> 00:24:30,830 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 595 00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:33,590 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: One of the great things about 004 is that 596 00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:37,170 half the people on your hall have taken this course. 597 00:24:37,170 --> 00:24:40,250 And so even though we have our core staff, 598 00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:42,560 you can go down your hall, and as I say, 599 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,230 every other person will say, oh, I took the course. 600 00:24:45,230 --> 00:24:48,050 So there's actually an enormous body 601 00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:51,050 of knowledge about the material and things like that. 602 00:24:51,050 --> 00:24:56,720 So not many courses have that opportunity, 603 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,630 but we take great advantage of it. 604 00:24:58,630 --> 00:25:01,820 So there's a lot of sort of hallway learning, 605 00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:03,830 peer learning that happens outside 606 00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:05,270 of the sort of structured learning 607 00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:06,565 that we do in the class. 608 00:25:06,565 --> 00:25:07,940 SARAH HANSEN: That's fascinating. 609 00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:09,560 It kind of speaks to the importance 610 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,140 of having common learning experiences 611 00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:14,750 at the undergraduate level just to facilitate 612 00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:17,120 that sort of, like you said, hallway learning. 613 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,200 It's really interesting. 614 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,158 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, plus students often-- 615 00:25:20,158 --> 00:25:21,660 during the day, it's hectic. 616 00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:21,920 SARAH HANSEN: Yes. 617 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,300 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: They're distracted. 618 00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:24,410 They come to lecture. 619 00:25:24,410 --> 00:25:27,050 They have lots of things on their minds. 620 00:25:27,050 --> 00:25:30,110 So mostly it's being in the quiet of their room 621 00:25:30,110 --> 00:25:32,750 that they probably intellectually really 622 00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,190 grapple with the material. 623 00:25:34,190 --> 00:25:38,630 So first of all, giving them things to grapple with is good, 624 00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:41,600 but then making sure they're supported, either through peers 625 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,970 or through the Piazza forum. 626 00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:47,566 When they're outside of the sort of structured help we provide. 627 00:25:47,566 --> 00:25:48,520 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 628 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:49,937 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It's really, I 629 00:25:49,937 --> 00:25:52,370 think, changed how the students consume the course. 630 00:25:52,370 --> 00:25:59,030 And so the lecture attendance is modest. 631 00:25:59,030 --> 00:26:04,100 But a lot of people do very well on learning the material 632 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:04,892 on the assessments. 633 00:26:04,892 --> 00:26:05,725 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 634 00:26:05,725 --> 00:26:07,250 I mean, I think that speaks to what 635 00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:10,520 you talked about earlier in that you offer a buffet of ways 636 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,240 to learn. 637 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,240 And so people who come to the lectures 638 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,967 are the people who learn best through that format. 639 00:26:16,967 --> 00:26:18,050 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Right. 640 00:26:18,050 --> 00:26:20,720 And some people I never see except occasionally they'll 641 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,150 come when I have lab hours. 642 00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:24,650 They'll come by, because they just want to chit chat, right? 643 00:26:24,650 --> 00:26:25,483 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 644 00:26:25,483 --> 00:26:27,260 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: We have-- 645 00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:29,600 one of the activities you do after you do the design, 646 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:30,650 we have a check-off. 647 00:26:30,650 --> 00:26:34,850 So you have to come and sort of explain your design. 648 00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:37,940 Partly that's just to make sure that maybe you actually 649 00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:40,947 did the design instead of your friend down the hall. 650 00:26:40,947 --> 00:26:41,780 SARAH HANSEN: I see. 651 00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:43,613 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And so at the very least 652 00:26:43,613 --> 00:26:45,280 we want them to understand the design 653 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,572 that they claim they have done. 654 00:26:46,572 --> 00:26:47,763 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 655 00:26:47,763 --> 00:26:49,180 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: But for people 656 00:26:49,180 --> 00:26:51,010 who have worked hard on it, it's an opp-- 657 00:26:51,010 --> 00:26:53,380 they love to come by and show it off. 658 00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:55,900 And so they're proud of their baby, right? 659 00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:57,670 I mean, particularly towards the end 660 00:26:57,670 --> 00:27:01,240 of the course when we have a fairly complex design 661 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,260 project, which is actually very hard to get very high marks on. 662 00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:07,280 I mean, you have to be really good to get it. 663 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,050 And so it's an amazing number of people who tackle that. 664 00:27:11,050 --> 00:27:12,160 And they come in. 665 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,120 And they say, OK, I'm stuck here. 666 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,210 Give me some ideas what to try next. 667 00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:20,460 And if you dare try to say, well, just do this. 668 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:22,030 I don't want the answer. 669 00:27:22,030 --> 00:27:23,650 I want you to-- 670 00:27:23,650 --> 00:27:24,870 I'm having fun here. 671 00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:26,288 So don't take away the fun part. 672 00:27:26,288 --> 00:27:27,580 I want to puzzle it out myself. 673 00:27:27,580 --> 00:27:29,020 I just need some hints as to where 674 00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:31,445 my puzzler should be focusing. 675 00:27:31,445 --> 00:27:33,070 SARAH HANSEN: The fun is in the puzzle. 676 00:27:33,070 --> 00:27:34,153 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: It is. 677 00:27:34,153 --> 00:27:35,410 It is, and the doing of it. 678 00:27:35,410 --> 00:27:37,755 SARAH HANSEN: And the doing of it. 679 00:27:37,755 --> 00:27:39,630 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And I think that's great, 680 00:27:39,630 --> 00:27:42,180 because when students first come, 681 00:27:42,180 --> 00:27:44,250 they tend to be focusing on the answers. 682 00:27:44,250 --> 00:27:47,220 Here you gave me a bunch of-- a worksheet full of questions. 683 00:27:47,220 --> 00:27:49,082 So I looked at the answers. 684 00:27:49,082 --> 00:27:50,040 I think I'm good to go. 685 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,190 I say, no, the worksheets aren't because we want you to know 686 00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:54,510 the answers to those questions. 687 00:27:54,510 --> 00:27:57,840 The worksheets are to help you diagnose 688 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,933 whether you understand things. 689 00:27:59,933 --> 00:28:02,100 So the best thing that can happen with the worksheet 690 00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:04,620 is I don't know how to do this problem. 691 00:28:04,620 --> 00:28:06,720 And so I should go figure out how to do it. 692 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,210 So if you're doing this self-paced mastery learning 693 00:28:12,210 --> 00:28:17,730 shtick, which is sort of how we try to help students 694 00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:23,850 master the material at their own pace, whenever they want to. 695 00:28:23,850 --> 00:28:26,370 So we have to provide a lot of self-assessments. 696 00:28:26,370 --> 00:28:28,580 They have to use them as assessments, though. 697 00:28:28,580 --> 00:28:28,920 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 698 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,580 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: They don't use them 699 00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:30,840 as assessments if they're just saying, 700 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,507 oh, the answer's three to this question, 701 00:28:32,507 --> 00:28:34,590 and I hope they ask this one on the quiz. 702 00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:35,797 They're not getting it. 703 00:28:35,797 --> 00:28:36,630 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 704 00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:37,290 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Getting students 705 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:39,660 to stop focusing on the answers and really 706 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:43,177 focus on, how do I tackle this sort of problem? 707 00:28:43,177 --> 00:28:44,010 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 708 00:28:44,010 --> 00:28:45,210 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Of all the things I know how to do, 709 00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:48,540 I first have to select the appropriate concept or skill, 710 00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:50,580 and then I have to know how to apply it. 711 00:28:50,580 --> 00:28:54,300 It's sort of neat to watch them make the transition from coming 712 00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:58,770 in as sort of answer focused to leaving sort of like, OK, you 713 00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:00,960 can ask me anything, because I actually 714 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,940 know how to do things from scratch, 715 00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:08,610 not because I just could pick something. 716 00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:11,490 I can not only recognize the right answer when I see it. 717 00:29:11,490 --> 00:29:13,470 I can actually make right answers. 718 00:29:13,470 --> 00:29:15,810 That's a very-- people feel empowered 719 00:29:15,810 --> 00:29:19,020 when they can do that. 720 00:29:19,020 --> 00:29:21,330 SARAH HANSEN: Let's talk a bit about the future. 721 00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:24,030 It seems like the courses is finely tuned already. 722 00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:26,010 But do you have ideas for how you 723 00:29:26,010 --> 00:29:28,413 might tweak it in the future? 724 00:29:28,413 --> 00:29:30,580 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, I'm retiring in two weeks. 725 00:29:30,580 --> 00:29:32,175 SARAH HANSEN: Oh, so not you. 726 00:29:32,175 --> 00:29:34,050 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So it's being turned over 727 00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:34,860 to a new team. 728 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,470 Some of the people who were part of the teaching cadre 729 00:29:37,470 --> 00:29:40,440 earlier are taking it over. 730 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,840 They, of course, have their own strong opinions 731 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,160 about better ways of doing things. 732 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,640 So I think that the basic structure of the course 733 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,270 will be the same, the basic list of topics that will be taught. 734 00:29:51,270 --> 00:29:54,030 But they have a different sort of design experience in mind. 735 00:29:54,030 --> 00:29:57,750 So they'll find their own way. 736 00:29:57,750 --> 00:30:00,240 It's interesting to me because I think 737 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,640 until you've taught a 300-person course, 738 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,300 you may not appreciate how things which work really 739 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:08,760 well with two students in your office 740 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,420 or 10 students in a recitation doesn't really 741 00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:14,073 work for 300 students. 742 00:30:14,073 --> 00:30:15,990 You suddenly say, well, they'll ask a question 743 00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:16,698 if they have one. 744 00:30:16,698 --> 00:30:18,930 So I don't need to be too specific. 745 00:30:18,930 --> 00:30:22,830 It's sort of interesting to say, whoa, 300 questions. 746 00:30:22,830 --> 00:30:24,030 That's a lot of questions. 747 00:30:24,030 --> 00:30:25,770 And three of them from every student. 748 00:30:25,770 --> 00:30:28,060 So I have 1,000 questions this week. 749 00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:31,290 And so you start learning how carefully the materials 750 00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:32,160 have to be prepared. 751 00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:36,700 In one of the questions you sent me, 752 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:40,680 you talked about engineering the materials. 753 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,460 And a big class has a real issue with engineering materials 754 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:49,440 that will help get students to do the things 755 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,400 you want them to do, but you can't leave them adrift, 756 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,160 because you only have so much capacity 757 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,350 to pull them all back to shore. 758 00:30:58,350 --> 00:31:00,960 And so you really have to put most of what 759 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,740 they need into the materials. 760 00:31:02,740 --> 00:31:05,220 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 761 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:08,700 Can you say more about engineering the materials 762 00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:10,838 to keep everyone afloat? 763 00:31:10,838 --> 00:31:13,130 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: Well, so it's an iterative process. 764 00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:17,570 I mean, people say, oh, 004, it runs like clockwork. 765 00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:19,700 This is the best organized course I've ever had. 766 00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:24,500 And I say, well, 20 years ago you wouldn't have said that. 767 00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:26,875 We've had our share of unfortunate assignments, 768 00:31:26,875 --> 00:31:29,150 or undoable assignments, or assignments 769 00:31:29,150 --> 00:31:32,270 that were just too hard for some students, or too easy 770 00:31:32,270 --> 00:31:33,380 for everybody. 771 00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:35,540 And so yes, we do that. 772 00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:38,708 We try to get student feedback. 773 00:31:38,708 --> 00:31:40,250 The forum is actually great for that. 774 00:31:40,250 --> 00:31:42,180 You get instant feedback on-- 775 00:31:42,180 --> 00:31:42,680 this sucked. 776 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,700 And you're going, OK, OK. 777 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:47,630 And so if you're good, you make notes. 778 00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:48,467 SARAH HANSEN: OK. 779 00:31:48,467 --> 00:31:50,675 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: I think I've taught this course-- 780 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,100 I don't know-- 781 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:55,880 30 semesters. 782 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:56,630 SARAH HANSEN: Wow. 783 00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:59,047 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So that gives you a lot of opportunity 784 00:31:59,047 --> 00:32:00,153 to think-- 785 00:32:00,153 --> 00:32:02,070 reflect at the end of each semester about what 786 00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:03,600 went right, what went wrong. 787 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,300 With a good staff, they're usually on top of it. 788 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,810 Oh, we've got to change this, or I spent too much time 789 00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:11,660 helping students with this. 790 00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:14,490 And even in real-time we'll add a paragraph 791 00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:18,180 to the assignment saying, oh, a little bit more explanation, 792 00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:19,027 or a hint. 793 00:32:19,027 --> 00:32:19,860 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 794 00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:24,110 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: So a willingness to sort of-- 795 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:26,070 and think of building the materials 796 00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:28,630 as a continuous process. 797 00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:32,000 And after a while, most of the potholes are filled in, 798 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,850 and the drive is pretty smooth. 799 00:32:33,850 --> 00:32:35,795 SARAH HANSEN: Right. 800 00:32:35,795 --> 00:32:37,170 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And sometimes 801 00:32:37,170 --> 00:32:40,830 the unexpected problem is actually a doorway 802 00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:43,800 actually into a whole new thing. 803 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,440 We have some students that say, I thought about this, 804 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:47,730 and I tried doing it this way. 805 00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:50,850 And I'm going, whoa, what a great insight that is. 806 00:32:50,850 --> 00:32:53,710 And so we want all the students to have that opportunity. 807 00:32:53,710 --> 00:32:55,210 So now we're going to figure out how 808 00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:57,990 to build that into the design problem 809 00:32:57,990 --> 00:33:01,820 so that everybody has an opportunity to go aha. 810 00:33:01,820 --> 00:33:04,170 And it was really neat that the students 811 00:33:04,170 --> 00:33:06,570 were able to come up with that themselves. 812 00:33:06,570 --> 00:33:12,070 But that gives you a viewpoint. 813 00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:15,510 It gives you an opportunity to understand how students 814 00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:17,670 are seeing what you're asking. 815 00:33:17,670 --> 00:33:20,170 They misunderstood, so they answered a different question. 816 00:33:20,170 --> 00:33:23,470 And it turns out that different question was at least 817 00:33:23,470 --> 00:33:26,170 as interesting, or maybe even better than the one you asked. 818 00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:30,500 And so then you start one of these virtual cycles. 819 00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:33,730 Then slowly you build up stuff where 820 00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:37,480 you end up with questions that are really-- 821 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,550 they don't look like there's much to them, 822 00:33:40,550 --> 00:33:42,640 but there's been a lot of evolution 823 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,070 behind asking it just this way. 824 00:33:45,070 --> 00:33:46,270 SARAH HANSEN: Interesting. 825 00:33:46,270 --> 00:33:48,640 CHRISTOPHER TERMAN: And just this order. 826 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,220 So it's been fun to go through that experience, 827 00:33:51,220 --> 00:33:52,630 and often surprising. 828 00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:55,773 And we go, oh, I thought it was so clear.