WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.936 align:middle line:90% [SQUEAKING] 00:00:01.936 --> 00:00:03.388 align:middle line:90% [RUSTLING] 00:00:03.388 --> 00:00:04.840 align:middle line:90% [CLICKING] 00:00:04.840 --> 00:00:12.590 align:middle line:90% 00:00:12.590 --> 00:00:15.470 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Go ahead and turn to your neighbor and start. 00:00:15.470 --> 00:00:17.630 align:middle line:84% One thing you could do is pull out the main reading 00:00:17.630 --> 00:00:19.713 align:middle line:84% that we did about situated learning, because we'll 00:00:19.713 --> 00:00:21.180 align:middle line:90% do a close read of that today. 00:00:21.180 --> 00:00:23.310 align:middle line:90% So pull that up on something. 00:00:23.310 --> 00:00:26.160 align:middle line:84% And then, in the minutes that we have-- we usually start at 1:05. 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:30.080 align:middle line:84% But in the minutes that we have, turn to your neighbor and start 00:00:30.080 --> 00:00:34.200 align:middle line:84% thinking about why babies would give cognitive load 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.888 align:middle line:90% theorists conniptions. 00:00:36.888 --> 00:00:39.714 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:00:39.714 --> 00:00:40.520 align:middle line:90% 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:43.593 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think the first one is like-- 00:00:43.593 --> 00:00:45.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Right, like when you're a kid. 00:00:45.260 --> 00:00:45.920 align:middle line:90% It's like-- 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.830 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Just as one level-setting thing, in case 00:00:48.830 --> 00:00:51.170 align:middle line:84% you haven't hung out with babies in a while, 00:00:51.170 --> 00:00:53.010 align:middle line:84% in their first few years of life, 00:00:53.010 --> 00:00:55.520 align:middle line:84% how would you characterize the amount and rate 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:57.542 align:middle line:90% of learning that babies do? 00:00:57.542 --> 00:00:58.250 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Insane. 00:00:58.250 --> 00:00:59.430 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Insane. 00:00:59.430 --> 00:01:02.210 align:middle line:84% It is bonkers how much babies learn. 00:01:02.210 --> 00:01:04.239 align:middle line:84% I mean, a very strong feeling I had 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.600 align:middle line:84% when I was first a father was like, 00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:10.780 align:middle line:84% I do not improve at all in a week 00:01:10.780 --> 00:01:13.280 align:middle line:84% or in a month or really most years. 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:15.040 align:middle line:84% I'm really not that much better than I was 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:15.980 align:middle line:90% at the beginning of the year. 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:17.563 align:middle line:84% And you're just watching these infants 00:01:17.563 --> 00:01:21.430 align:middle line:84% who are totally transformed because they are learning things 00:01:21.430 --> 00:01:26.650 align:middle line:84% at an amazing rate that you can see daily, weekly, monthly. 00:01:26.650 --> 00:01:29.350 align:middle line:90% Incredibly accelerated learning. 00:01:29.350 --> 00:01:32.440 align:middle line:84% So we'll just use that to level set. 00:01:32.440 --> 00:01:36.280 align:middle line:84% Let's take it as a given that babies learn an amazing amount 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:38.470 align:middle line:90% in their early years. 00:01:38.470 --> 00:01:39.530 align:middle line:90% Now, keep talking. 00:01:39.530 --> 00:01:41.240 align:middle line:84% Why would that prove to be such-- 00:01:41.240 --> 00:01:43.090 align:middle line:84% why would that give cognitive load theorists 00:01:43.090 --> 00:01:44.860 align:middle line:90% such a conniption? 00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:47.920 align:middle line:84% And you can think about how it connects to some of the stuff 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.087 align:middle line:84% that you've been reading about situated load theory. 00:01:50.087 --> 00:01:51.040 align:middle line:90% Keep talking. 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.670 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I guess presumably-- 00:01:53.670 --> 00:01:54.920 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: All right, good. 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:58.070 align:middle line:84% What are some observations that people made? 00:01:58.070 --> 00:02:00.140 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: All my good habits of schooling. 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:03.050 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: What are-- 00:02:03.050 --> 00:02:04.820 align:middle line:90% babies are significant. 00:02:04.820 --> 00:02:07.875 align:middle line:84% So what are some of the observations that you made? 00:02:07.875 --> 00:02:10.419 align:middle line:90% 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:13.150 align:middle line:84% What were you guys talking about in the back? 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:15.340 align:middle line:84% What was your group talking about, Gloria? 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:18.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was saying that if cognitive load theory was true, 00:02:18.200 --> 00:02:20.985 align:middle line:84% then that would say that babies probably can't learn anything 00:02:20.985 --> 00:02:23.110 align:middle line:84% because everything is extraneous knowledge to them, 00:02:23.110 --> 00:02:25.250 align:middle line:84% and they don't have any long-term memory. 00:02:25.250 --> 00:02:26.930 align:middle line:84% They haven't formed any feelings yet. 00:02:26.930 --> 00:02:27.260 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: All right. 00:02:27.260 --> 00:02:27.760 align:middle line:90% Yep. 00:02:27.760 --> 00:02:28.952 align:middle line:90% So they're not drawing in. 00:02:28.952 --> 00:02:31.160 align:middle line:84% They don't have a lot of long-term memory to draw on. 00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:34.390 align:middle line:84% They are the canonical us looking 00:02:34.390 --> 00:02:37.000 align:middle line:84% at Sanskrit letters, where everything 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.118 align:middle line:90% is its own discrete part. 00:02:39.118 --> 00:02:40.910 align:middle line:84% So you would think they are working memory. 00:02:40.910 --> 00:02:43.390 align:middle line:84% I mean, this video, I think, is helpful for that. 00:02:43.390 --> 00:02:46.520 align:middle line:84% Everything on this screen is brand new to them. 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:48.440 align:middle line:84% There's nothing that they've ever seen before. 00:02:48.440 --> 00:02:49.270 align:middle line:90% And it's filled. 00:02:49.270 --> 00:02:51.430 align:middle line:84% There's a slide and a dad and that other thing 00:02:51.430 --> 00:02:53.300 align:middle line:84% back there and all this stuff on the ground, 00:02:53.300 --> 00:02:55.330 align:middle line:84% and people are talking, and the sun is out, 00:02:55.330 --> 00:02:57.310 align:middle line:84% and all these things are happening at once. 00:02:57.310 --> 00:02:57.810 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:02:57.810 --> 00:03:00.870 align:middle line:90% What else do people talk about? 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:04.890 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's also like, the speed with which they learn 00:03:04.890 --> 00:03:07.620 align:middle line:84% doesn't really connect with the bottleneck theory 00:03:07.620 --> 00:03:12.210 align:middle line:84% and the theory of-- it takes a while for you 00:03:12.210 --> 00:03:14.680 align:middle line:84% to compile all of this information, 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:16.680 align:middle line:84% but it almost seems like a baby sees it one time 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:18.100 align:middle line:90% and is able to retain it. 00:03:18.100 --> 00:03:21.030 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, babies seem to do exactly the thing 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:24.670 align:middle line:84% that Sweller said people should not be able to do, 00:03:24.670 --> 00:03:25.950 align:middle line:90% which is to be-- 00:03:25.950 --> 00:03:26.820 align:middle line:90% I mean, would you-- 00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:28.945 align:middle line:84% like, this baby learning stuff, would you generally 00:03:28.945 --> 00:03:31.770 align:middle line:84% characterize their experience as open-ended problem 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:34.223 align:middle line:84% solving, or being carefully walked 00:03:34.223 --> 00:03:35.723 align:middle line:84% through a series of worked examples? 00:03:35.723 --> 00:03:39.120 align:middle line:90% 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:40.570 align:middle line:90% Well, how would you describe it? 00:03:40.570 --> 00:03:41.868 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:03:41.868 --> 00:03:44.160 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, I mean, I'm just going on the slide 00:03:44.160 --> 00:03:45.330 align:middle line:90% and going down. 00:03:45.330 --> 00:03:46.920 align:middle line:90% It's not like dad's like-- 00:03:46.920 --> 00:03:50.530 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think you'd find more structure and stuff like that, 00:03:50.530 --> 00:03:52.750 align:middle line:84% but there's a lot of just like, wow, I'm a baby. 00:03:52.750 --> 00:03:53.410 align:middle line:90% I'm out there. 00:03:53.410 --> 00:03:55.460 align:middle line:90% I'm doing my thing. 00:03:55.460 --> 00:03:58.820 align:middle line:84% And the worked example effect and the expert reversal effect 00:03:58.820 --> 00:04:00.930 align:middle line:84% suggests that should not be very effective. 00:04:00.930 --> 00:04:03.590 align:middle line:84% The most effective way to teach babies 00:04:03.590 --> 00:04:07.460 align:middle line:84% should be through careful, devolving scaffolding 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:08.940 align:middle line:84% of language and things like that. 00:04:08.940 --> 00:04:10.023 align:middle line:90% And that's not what we do. 00:04:10.023 --> 00:04:12.800 align:middle line:84% We just throw babies in with people all the time. 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:15.270 align:middle line:90% And they learn language. 00:04:15.270 --> 00:04:16.110 align:middle line:90% They learn movement. 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:19.700 align:middle line:84% They learn a few other things at an extraordinary rate. 00:04:19.700 --> 00:04:23.960 align:middle line:84% So what connection do you see between this set 00:04:23.960 --> 00:04:25.525 align:middle line:90% of ideas and situated learning? 00:04:25.525 --> 00:04:29.000 align:middle line:90% 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.280 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's a lot of trial and error in it. 00:04:31.280 --> 00:04:32.870 align:middle line:84% We were talking about, hey, when they 00:04:32.870 --> 00:04:34.430 align:middle line:84% see a block they want to go get, they 00:04:34.430 --> 00:04:35.600 align:middle line:84% start to figure out the different ways 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:37.642 align:middle line:84% that they can go get that block but through trial 00:04:37.642 --> 00:04:39.642 align:middle line:84% and error-- trying to stand up, trying to crawl, 00:04:39.642 --> 00:04:40.890 align:middle line:90% trying to drag themselves. 00:04:40.890 --> 00:04:41.090 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:04:41.090 --> 00:04:42.320 align:middle line:90% All that kind of stuff. 00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:43.740 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE], come on in. 00:04:43.740 --> 00:04:44.275 align:middle line:90% Sit with me. 00:04:44.275 --> 00:04:44.550 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Sorry. 00:04:44.550 --> 00:04:45.620 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: No, no. 00:04:45.620 --> 00:04:47.240 align:middle line:90% Delighted to have you. 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:48.800 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.490 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I mean, this certainly looks a lot more like situated 00:04:52.490 --> 00:04:56.870 align:middle line:84% learning than it does look like a carefully sculpted classroom. 00:04:56.870 --> 00:05:02.077 align:middle line:84% And so for situated learning people-- 00:05:02.077 --> 00:05:04.410 align:middle line:84% I think we'll see this more in some stuff that we read-- 00:05:04.410 --> 00:05:07.610 align:middle line:84% the experience of babies seems like something that's 00:05:07.610 --> 00:05:10.040 align:middle line:90% pretty important to draw from. 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:16.160 align:middle line:84% How would you characterize the feelings that babies have 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:17.940 align:middle line:90% as they learn language? 00:05:17.940 --> 00:05:19.530 align:middle line:90% Are they happy? 00:05:19.530 --> 00:05:20.310 align:middle line:90% Are they sad? 00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:21.060 align:middle line:90% Are they angry? 00:05:21.060 --> 00:05:21.930 align:middle line:90% Are they frustrated? 00:05:21.930 --> 00:05:22.770 align:middle line:90% Are they joyful? 00:05:22.770 --> 00:05:23.630 align:middle line:90% Are they playful? 00:05:23.630 --> 00:05:25.130 align:middle line:84% What kind of feelings do babies seem 00:05:25.130 --> 00:05:28.377 align:middle line:84% to have as they're learning words? 00:05:28.377 --> 00:05:29.460 align:middle line:90% What would you say, Jaren? 00:05:29.460 --> 00:05:31.793 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was going to say, they seem kind of fearless 00:05:31.793 --> 00:05:34.850 align:middle line:84% and like there's no social pressure to try and pronounce 00:05:34.850 --> 00:05:35.790 align:middle line:90% this word correctly. 00:05:35.790 --> 00:05:37.230 align:middle line:90% They'll just say the word. 00:05:37.230 --> 00:05:38.660 align:middle line:90% And we'll be like, oh, good job. 00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:41.490 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Just make noises come out of our mouths whenever. 00:05:41.490 --> 00:05:43.500 align:middle line:84% Yeah, do you want to grab another chair in? 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:45.320 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It doesn't seem like there's 00:05:45.320 --> 00:05:49.850 align:middle line:84% a lot of fear behind trying to practice what they're learning. 00:05:49.850 --> 00:05:51.960 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But I think, in addition to that, 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:54.112 align:middle line:84% there can be a lot of frustration as well. 00:05:54.112 --> 00:05:54.820 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: OK. 00:05:54.820 --> 00:05:55.030 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:05:55.030 --> 00:05:55.530 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:05:55.530 --> 00:05:57.425 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The consequences of not knowing 00:05:57.425 --> 00:05:58.550 align:middle line:90% how to say specific things. 00:05:58.550 --> 00:05:58.720 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:00.880 align:middle line:84% Or if you watch babies when they're-- 00:06:00.880 --> 00:06:04.060 align:middle line:84% I mean, they cry when they can't articulate the things that they 00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:05.410 align:middle line:90% want to be able to say. 00:06:05.410 --> 00:06:05.930 align:middle line:90% What are you thinking? 00:06:05.930 --> 00:06:07.722 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, in addition to frustration, 00:06:07.722 --> 00:06:10.080 align:middle line:84% I think there's a bit of happiness when they actually 00:06:10.080 --> 00:06:11.830 align:middle line:84% achieve what they're trying to communicate 00:06:11.830 --> 00:06:12.898 align:middle line:90% and they feel understood. 00:06:12.898 --> 00:06:13.690 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:06:13.690 --> 00:06:16.790 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think there's some sort of pride in that. 00:06:16.790 --> 00:06:19.065 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: What were you going to say, Courtney? 00:06:19.065 --> 00:06:19.690 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Same. 00:06:19.690 --> 00:06:20.920 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Same kind of thing. 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:22.060 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I also wonder-- 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:24.310 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: My daughter, we used to-- 00:06:24.310 --> 00:06:25.670 align:middle line:90% we used to just-- 00:06:25.670 --> 00:06:27.050 align:middle line:90% I guess it was my younger one. 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:29.195 align:middle line:84% We used to just list vegetables and list things 00:06:29.195 --> 00:06:30.320 align:middle line:90% you get at the supermarket. 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:32.450 align:middle line:84% And she thought that was the funniest thing ever. 00:06:32.450 --> 00:06:35.262 align:middle line:84% You would just be like, pears, [SCREECHES] 00:06:35.262 --> 00:06:37.220 align:middle line:84% Just in the back of the car, just saying stuff. 00:06:37.220 --> 00:06:39.085 align:middle line:84% And she's giggling the whole time. 00:06:39.085 --> 00:06:40.900 align:middle line:84% I mean, if you watch a video like this, 00:06:40.900 --> 00:06:44.500 align:middle line:90% this is clearly delightful. 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:46.810 align:middle line:84% There's not a lot that's Sweller and colleagues have 00:06:46.810 --> 00:06:49.720 align:middle line:90% to say about being delighted. 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:57.000 align:middle line:84% I think, if you were to situate the moral ethic of work 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.920 align:middle line:84% around learning in cognitive load theory, 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:02.080 align:middle line:84% it's very, like, learning is hard. 00:07:02.080 --> 00:07:04.860 align:middle line:84% We persevere through a hard thing, 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:06.900 align:middle line:84% and we control the hardness of it 00:07:06.900 --> 00:07:09.150 align:middle line:84% so that we can scaffold it for people. 00:07:09.150 --> 00:07:12.420 align:middle line:84% And for situated learning people, they aren't really-- 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:13.558 align:middle line:90% these aren't arguments. 00:07:13.558 --> 00:07:15.100 align:middle line:84% Sometimes they're explicit arguments. 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:17.600 align:middle line:84% Sometimes they're just tones that you find in the way people 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:18.790 align:middle line:90% talk about these things. 00:07:18.790 --> 00:07:20.435 align:middle line:84% They'd be like, oh, learning is great. 00:07:20.435 --> 00:07:22.810 align:middle line:84% Learning is the thing that we do and get better at stuff. 00:07:22.810 --> 00:07:25.273 align:middle line:84% It's nice and natural and things like that. 00:07:25.273 --> 00:07:26.940 align:middle line:84% Can anybody think of a thing that you've 00:07:26.940 --> 00:07:29.320 align:middle line:84% learned in which you got better at the thing, 00:07:29.320 --> 00:07:33.420 align:middle line:84% and it was just playful, enjoyable, natural to get better 00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:34.710 align:middle line:90% at it? 00:07:34.710 --> 00:07:36.450 align:middle line:84% Anybody can shout out one or two things 00:07:36.450 --> 00:07:39.060 align:middle line:90% that was like that for you. 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:41.590 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: When I first learned how to use a power drill. 00:07:41.590 --> 00:07:42.150 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Awesome. 00:07:42.150 --> 00:07:42.390 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:07:42.390 --> 00:07:43.723 align:middle line:90% Learning how to use power drill. 00:07:43.723 --> 00:07:46.750 align:middle line:84% Very satisfying, immediate feedback, things like that. 00:07:46.750 --> 00:07:47.460 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:47.460 --> 00:07:49.800 align:middle line:84% Other things that people really enjoyed learning? 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:51.980 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think, similarly, tactical things, 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:53.390 align:middle line:90% like learning how to do pottery. 00:07:53.390 --> 00:07:54.390 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Oh, great. 00:07:54.390 --> 00:07:56.698 align:middle line:84% Yeah, pottery seems like a good one. 00:07:56.698 --> 00:07:57.990 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Learning how to swim. 00:07:57.990 --> 00:07:58.970 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Learning how to swim. 00:07:58.970 --> 00:07:59.250 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:07:59.250 --> 00:08:00.360 align:middle line:84% We're saying a lot of physical things. 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:00.860 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:02.000 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Video games. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:03.360 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Video games. 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.722 align:middle line:84% Video games are-- there is a whole science. 00:08:07.722 --> 00:08:08.430 align:middle line:90% We won't read it. 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:11.068 align:middle line:84% There's a guy named James Gee, who wrote a great book 00:08:11.068 --> 00:08:12.360 align:middle line:90% about learning and video games. 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:13.777 align:middle line:84% It's a little bit like Tocqueville 00:08:13.777 --> 00:08:16.520 align:middle line:84% coming to America, if that's a reference that you know. 00:08:16.520 --> 00:08:19.730 align:middle line:84% But Tocqueville was this European who came to America, 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:23.300 align:middle line:84% and he saw America incredibly intimately in a way 00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:27.180 align:middle line:84% that only an outsider could, in part by becoming an insider. 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:29.000 align:middle line:84% James Gee is an old guy who was like, why 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:30.600 align:middle line:84% do my kids like video games so much? 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:31.933 align:middle line:90% And he starts playing with them. 00:08:31.933 --> 00:08:35.220 align:middle line:84% He's like, these are amazing learning experiences. 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:37.220 align:middle line:84% Think about someone learning a really hard game, 00:08:37.220 --> 00:08:40.140 align:middle line:84% like Civilization 6 or Stellaris, 00:08:40.140 --> 00:08:42.559 align:middle line:84% or put in whatever game you've been playing recently 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:45.327 align:middle line:84% that just has incredibly complicated systems in them. 00:08:45.327 --> 00:08:46.910 align:middle line:84% There aren't a lot of people who are-- 00:08:46.910 --> 00:08:51.150 align:middle line:84% Minecraft, redstone building in Minecraft, stuff like that. 00:08:51.150 --> 00:08:52.740 align:middle line:84% There aren't people who are like, god, 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:54.282 align:middle line:84% it was such a drag that I had to take 00:08:54.282 --> 00:08:57.180 align:middle line:84% all those classes on redstone to be able to, blah, blah, blah. 00:08:57.180 --> 00:09:00.660 align:middle line:84% These games have systems built within them. 00:09:00.660 --> 00:09:03.680 align:middle line:84% They're-- almost all of them-- canonically situated kinds 00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:06.600 align:middle line:84% of things, where you're just immersed in the environment, 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:07.715 align:middle line:90% you're encouraged to play. 00:09:07.715 --> 00:09:09.590 align:middle line:84% There are some peer structures around to help 00:09:09.590 --> 00:09:10.840 align:middle line:90% you learn and stuff like that. 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:14.840 align:middle line:84% But it's extremely pleasant, even when 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.250 align:middle line:84% people might find it frustrating or things like that. 00:09:17.250 --> 00:09:19.160 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of-- in families, cooking 00:09:19.160 --> 00:09:21.060 align:middle line:84% is something that-- learning how to cook, 00:09:21.060 --> 00:09:24.030 align:middle line:84% which has both tactile and scientific measurement, 00:09:24.030 --> 00:09:26.120 align:middle line:84% mathematical, language components 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.555 align:middle line:84% that people often find quite pleasurable. 00:09:28.555 --> 00:09:29.930 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And this connects a lot 00:09:29.930 --> 00:09:33.088 align:middle line:84% to the material I'm learning in CMS 587 about assessments. 00:09:33.088 --> 00:09:34.880 align:middle line:84% We're learning about the different theories 00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:37.070 align:middle line:84% of intelligence and how, if you believe 00:09:37.070 --> 00:09:39.920 align:middle line:84% that your intelligence isn't fixed and it can expand, 00:09:39.920 --> 00:09:41.220 align:middle line:90% then you can learn a lot more. 00:09:41.220 --> 00:09:43.262 align:middle line:84% And that's kind of like young children or babies, 00:09:43.262 --> 00:09:45.450 align:middle line:84% because they're not really afraid of failure. 00:09:45.450 --> 00:09:47.410 align:middle line:84% And they're just-- they're very resilient. 00:09:47.410 --> 00:09:48.140 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:09:48.140 --> 00:09:49.280 align:middle line:90% They don't care what's going on. 00:09:49.280 --> 00:09:51.100 align:middle line:84% They're just trying to figure things out. 00:09:51.100 --> 00:09:53.828 align:middle line:84% How many of you have had experiences 00:09:53.828 --> 00:09:56.120 align:middle line:84% that you're really happy with, where learning was hard, 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.510 align:middle line:84% where you persevered through a challenging 00:09:58.510 --> 00:10:00.957 align:middle line:84% set of learning experiences and got better at it? 00:10:00.957 --> 00:10:02.540 align:middle line:84% And you were like, yeah, that's great. 00:10:02.540 --> 00:10:03.920 align:middle line:90% I'm super glad I did that. 00:10:03.920 --> 00:10:06.200 align:middle line:84% What things come to mind for that for you? 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:08.678 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think, for me, learning to code was like that. 00:10:08.678 --> 00:10:10.720 align:middle line:84% I think differently from some people in the room. 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.387 align:middle line:84% I didn't learn to code in middle school. 00:10:12.387 --> 00:10:13.730 align:middle line:90% I learned it in university. 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:16.780 align:middle line:84% So there were traits associated with it and things like that. 00:10:16.780 --> 00:10:16.880 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:10:16.880 --> 00:10:17.090 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:10:17.090 --> 00:10:19.750 align:middle line:84% You watched a bunch of lectures and did Psets and turned them 00:10:19.750 --> 00:10:20.250 align:middle line:90% in. 00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:22.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But I remember the first very complex Pset 00:10:22.510 --> 00:10:24.910 align:middle line:84% that I completed and my program worked perfectly. 00:10:24.910 --> 00:10:26.530 align:middle line:90% And I was like-- 00:10:26.530 --> 00:10:27.760 align:middle line:90% it was an amazing feeling. 00:10:27.760 --> 00:10:28.720 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: It felt very satisfying, 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.610 align:middle line:84% even though some of the learning experience of doing that-- yeah, 00:10:30.610 --> 00:10:31.110 align:middle line:90% yeah. 00:10:31.110 --> 00:10:32.485 align:middle line:90% So that kind of-- 00:10:32.485 --> 00:10:34.510 align:middle line:84% I think there's a moral story that 00:10:34.510 --> 00:10:37.270 align:middle line:84% emerges around a lot of instructionist learning, which 00:10:37.270 --> 00:10:38.810 align:middle line:90% is like, it was hard. 00:10:38.810 --> 00:10:40.400 align:middle line:84% We put our nose to the grindstone. 00:10:40.400 --> 00:10:41.390 align:middle line:90% We sacrificed. 00:10:41.390 --> 00:10:44.030 align:middle line:84% But after that sacrifice, we had this great feeling of relief. 00:10:44.030 --> 00:10:45.490 align:middle line:84% And I think most of us have some kind of learning 00:10:45.490 --> 00:10:46.805 align:middle line:90% experience that goes like that. 00:10:46.805 --> 00:10:48.180 align:middle line:84% And then situated learning people 00:10:48.180 --> 00:10:52.140 align:middle line:84% have more of the story of, we just naturally found ourselves 00:10:52.140 --> 00:10:55.120 align:middle line:84% in this space surrounded by opportunities to learn. 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.450 align:middle line:84% And it was playful, and it felt easy and natural. 00:10:58.450 --> 00:11:00.512 align:middle line:84% And that's what we're trying to restore there. 00:11:00.512 --> 00:11:02.220 align:middle line:84% So actually, the cognitive load theorists 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:05.010 align:middle line:84% have, to me, what I think is a funny way of dealing with this. 00:11:05.010 --> 00:11:06.870 align:middle line:84% There's just a guy who proposed that there's 00:11:06.870 --> 00:11:09.420 align:middle line:84% two categories of things that are learned, 00:11:09.420 --> 00:11:12.420 align:middle line:84% called biologically primary and biologically secondary 00:11:12.420 --> 00:11:13.800 align:middle line:90% kinds of things. 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:18.240 align:middle line:84% And we're evolutionarily wired to naturally learn 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.350 align:middle line:84% biologically primary kinds of things, 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:22.287 align:middle line:84% and everything else is biologically secondary 00:11:22.287 --> 00:11:24.120 align:middle line:84% and is much harder, so that you're naturally 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.220 align:middle line:84% wired to learn how to walk, how to eat 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:29.590 align:middle line:84% some basic parts of socializing, recognizing faces. 00:11:29.590 --> 00:11:32.580 align:middle line:84% Language ends up being a real problem for this because it's 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:34.500 align:middle line:84% like, are you biologically primed 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:38.080 align:middle line:84% to learn your first language, to learn multiple languages? 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:39.940 align:middle line:90% Why would you be biologically-- 00:11:39.940 --> 00:11:42.790 align:middle line:84% why was it easy for me to learn English when I was young, 00:11:42.790 --> 00:11:45.690 align:middle line:84% but Spanish was really hard when I was older? 00:11:45.690 --> 00:11:46.920 align:middle line:90% Did my brain change? 00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:49.470 align:middle line:90% Did evolution-- anyway. 00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:52.530 align:middle line:84% I actually find this theory totally unsatisfying. 00:11:52.530 --> 00:11:55.620 align:middle line:84% Are any of you familiar with the idea of epicycles? 00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:58.710 align:middle line:84% Before the Copernican revolution, 00:11:58.710 --> 00:12:01.397 align:middle line:84% everybody thought orbits were circles, not ovals 00:12:01.397 --> 00:12:03.730 align:middle line:84% or whatever it is that they're supposed to-- what is it? 00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:04.650 align:middle line:90% What's the shape of them? 00:12:04.650 --> 00:12:05.120 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Ellipses. 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:06.078 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Ellipses. 00:12:06.078 --> 00:12:09.758 align:middle line:84% And there was a period of time when they realized, oh, 00:12:09.758 --> 00:12:11.050 align:middle line:90% circle measurements don't work. 00:12:11.050 --> 00:12:13.410 align:middle line:84% And so they added circles to the circles. 00:12:13.410 --> 00:12:17.160 align:middle line:84% They believed that there had to be perfect circles making 00:12:17.160 --> 00:12:17.770 align:middle line:90% the orbits. 00:12:17.770 --> 00:12:19.395 align:middle line:84% And so they believed that somehow there 00:12:19.395 --> 00:12:21.810 align:middle line:90% were orbits within the orbits. 00:12:21.810 --> 00:12:23.430 align:middle line:84% And then I think it was Copernicus 00:12:23.430 --> 00:12:25.390 align:middle line:84% who came around and was like, actually, it's just like this. 00:12:25.390 --> 00:12:26.557 align:middle line:90% And that works a lot better. 00:12:26.557 --> 00:12:29.370 align:middle line:84% But to me, biologically primary and biologically secondary 00:12:29.370 --> 00:12:32.140 align:middle line:84% things operate-- that seems a little bit like an epicycle 00:12:32.140 --> 00:12:32.640 align:middle line:90% to me. 00:12:32.640 --> 00:12:35.470 align:middle line:84% We haven't quite figured out what's going on there. 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:40.200 align:middle line:84% But that is how, canonically, the cognitive load theory people 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.130 align:middle line:84% just wave all this away and say, ah, babies, whatever, 00:12:43.130 --> 00:12:44.190 align:middle line:90% biologically primary. 00:12:44.190 --> 00:12:45.718 align:middle line:84% We don't have to worry about them. 00:12:45.718 --> 00:12:48.260 align:middle line:84% Everything after you're four years old or something like that 00:12:48.260 --> 00:12:50.700 align:middle line:90% is cognitive load theory works. 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:52.400 align:middle line:84% But for the situated learning people, 00:12:52.400 --> 00:12:54.740 align:middle line:84% not exactly, but in a lot of ways 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:57.140 align:middle line:84% they're trying to recapture the learning experiences 00:12:57.140 --> 00:12:58.970 align:middle line:84% that we have when we're very young, 00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:02.910 align:middle line:84% where learning is natural, playful. 00:13:02.910 --> 00:13:06.320 align:middle line:84% It's not always happy, but often socially satisfying 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:07.825 align:middle line:90% and extremely effective. 00:13:07.825 --> 00:13:09.950 align:middle line:84% I mean, what babies learn in a short period of time 00:13:09.950 --> 00:13:11.360 align:middle line:90% is just bonkers. 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.220 align:middle line:84% It's one of the most fun things about being 00:13:13.220 --> 00:13:15.240 align:middle line:84% a parent, or an auntie, or an uncle, 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.380 align:middle line:84% or all the other ways you get to spend a lot of time with kids. 00:13:18.380 --> 00:13:18.880 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:21.800 align:middle line:90% 00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:23.935 align:middle line:90% Let's just get oriented here. 00:13:23.935 --> 00:13:28.010 align:middle line:90% 00:13:28.010 --> 00:13:30.380 align:middle line:90% So again, we're in foundations. 00:13:30.380 --> 00:13:35.030 align:middle line:84% We're trying to get a hand of these two contemporary learning 00:13:35.030 --> 00:13:38.060 align:middle line:84% theories, cognitive load theory, situated learning, 00:13:38.060 --> 00:13:42.940 align:middle line:84% that these two ideas about how people learn are ancient, 00:13:42.940 --> 00:13:44.942 align:middle line:84% that you can find people like Plutarch, 00:13:44.942 --> 00:13:47.150 align:middle line:84% "For the mind does not require filling like a bottle, 00:13:47.150 --> 00:13:49.960 align:middle line:84% but rather, like wood, it only requires kindling to create 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.300 align:middle line:84% in it an impulse to think independently and an ardent 00:13:52.300 --> 00:13:54.362 align:middle line:90% desire for truth." 00:13:54.362 --> 00:13:57.970 align:middle line:84% This is Plutarch making a case for situated learning 00:13:57.970 --> 00:13:59.450 align:middle line:84% and against cognitive load theory, 00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:00.910 align:middle line:84% though he wouldn't have known those terms because they 00:14:00.910 --> 00:14:02.890 align:middle line:84% didn't show up for another 2,000 years. 00:14:02.890 --> 00:14:06.200 align:middle line:84% But you can hear the resonance of the debate in his mind. 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:10.360 align:middle line:84% Here's a little chunk from a 2017 New Yorker article. 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.390 align:middle line:84% "For nearly a century, public education in America has been 00:14:13.390 --> 00:14:15.760 align:middle line:84% influenced by two opposing pedagogical approaches-- 00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:17.390 align:middle line:84% traditionalism and progressivism." 00:14:17.390 --> 00:14:19.890 align:middle line:84% A thing that you've got to catch is that there are these two 00:14:19.890 --> 00:14:22.310 align:middle line:84% ideas that each of them has 8,000 different names. 00:14:22.310 --> 00:14:24.133 align:middle line:84% But anytime you notice this dichotomy. 00:14:24.133 --> 00:14:26.050 align:middle line:84% "Broadly speaking, in the traditional approach 00:14:26.050 --> 00:14:28.592 align:middle line:84% to education, a teacher imparts knowledge to students through 00:14:28.592 --> 00:14:31.450 align:middle line:84% direct instruction and embodies a disciplinary culture in which 00:14:31.450 --> 00:14:33.560 align:middle line:84% obedience is both prized and rewarded." 00:14:33.560 --> 00:14:36.260 align:middle line:90% That's a nice-- she frames it. 00:14:36.260 --> 00:14:37.508 align:middle line:90% Here's the pedagogical piece. 00:14:37.508 --> 00:14:39.550 align:middle line:84% Knowledge is imparted through direct instruction. 00:14:39.550 --> 00:14:43.030 align:middle line:84% "And embodies a disciplinary culture in which obedience is 00:14:43.030 --> 00:14:44.170 align:middle line:90% prized and rewarded." 00:14:44.170 --> 00:14:45.932 align:middle line:84% Obedience was not prized and rewarded 00:14:45.932 --> 00:14:47.390 align:middle line:84% amongst the baby on the playground. 00:14:47.390 --> 00:14:49.807 align:middle line:84% What was rewarded was screwing around. 00:14:49.807 --> 00:14:52.390 align:middle line:84% "The purpose of the classroom is to equip all students to meet 00:14:52.390 --> 00:14:53.640 align:middle line:90% measurable academic standards. 00:14:53.640 --> 00:14:56.200 align:middle line:84% At progressive institutions, a teacher develops a curriculum 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.120 align:middle line:84% but urges students to treat it as a staging 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.102 align:middle line:84% ground for their own intellectual discoveries, 00:15:00.102 --> 00:15:02.060 align:middle line:84% often through hands-on activity and group work. 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:03.977 align:middle line:84% Allowances are made for differences in the way 00:15:03.977 --> 00:15:05.210 align:middle line:90% individual students learn. 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.270 align:middle line:84% Progressivism was inspired, in large part, 00:15:07.270 --> 00:15:09.490 align:middle line:84% by the work of John Dewey, the American philosopher 00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:11.010 align:middle line:90% and education theorist." 00:15:11.010 --> 00:15:12.260 align:middle line:90% Maybe I'll say that last line. 00:15:12.260 --> 00:15:14.843 align:middle line:84% "For Dewey, the classroom was not simply a place for acquiring 00:15:14.843 --> 00:15:17.800 align:middle line:84% academic credentials; it was also a venue in which students 00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:21.560 align:middle line:84% learned crucial values about being citizens in a democracy." 00:15:21.560 --> 00:15:26.510 align:middle line:84% So maybe these things are laden not just with pedagogical ideas, 00:15:26.510 --> 00:15:31.850 align:middle line:84% beliefs about human architecture, cultural values, 00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:33.620 align:middle line:84% but even maybe the outcomes of education. 00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:35.287 align:middle line:84% Maybe we believe differently about that, 00:15:35.287 --> 00:15:36.760 align:middle line:90% though not necessarily. 00:15:36.760 --> 00:15:39.390 align:middle line:84% The person who's probably the best counterpoint to John Dewey 00:15:39.390 --> 00:15:43.020 align:middle line:84% is this guy, Ed Thorndike, who is a very early 00:15:43.020 --> 00:15:44.380 align:middle line:90% educational psychologist. 00:15:44.380 --> 00:15:46.690 align:middle line:84% I often think of him as a guy who was like, no, no, no, 00:15:46.690 --> 00:15:48.255 align:middle line:90% pail filling is great. 00:15:48.255 --> 00:15:50.130 align:middle line:84% A particularly great thing about pail filling 00:15:50.130 --> 00:15:52.078 align:middle line:84% is that we can measure pail filling. 00:15:52.078 --> 00:15:54.120 align:middle line:84% You can measure the rate at which you pour things 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.100 align:middle line:84% into people and the rate at which it falls out 00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:59.020 align:middle line:84% and how leaky people are and some of those kinds of things. 00:15:59.020 --> 00:16:00.990 align:middle line:84% So he was very involved in testing. 00:16:00.990 --> 00:16:04.080 align:middle line:84% He actually played a really important role 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.100 align:middle line:84% in developing ideas that educational progressives 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:08.862 align:middle line:90% hold dearly. 00:16:08.862 --> 00:16:10.320 align:middle line:84% One of the things he studied, which 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.945 align:middle line:84% we'll talk about as the course goes on, 00:16:11.945 --> 00:16:13.770 align:middle line:90% is this idea of transfer. 00:16:13.770 --> 00:16:19.110 align:middle line:84% So in the 18th, 19th century, people in America or Europe 00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:22.290 align:middle line:84% believed that a great thing about learning Latin and Greek 00:16:22.290 --> 00:16:27.220 align:middle line:84% was it strengthened these kind of generic thinking muscles. 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:29.830 align:middle line:84% Like if you got really good at learning Latin and Greek, 00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:31.300 align:middle line:84% you would just be a good thinker. 00:16:31.300 --> 00:16:33.150 align:middle line:90% And he was like, that's dumb. 00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:35.950 align:middle line:84% If you learn Latin and Greek, you're good at Latin and Greek, 00:16:35.950 --> 00:16:38.210 align:middle line:84% but you're not actually good at anything else. 00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:40.200 align:middle line:84% The brain is not general purpose like that. 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:42.870 align:middle line:84% But that kind of thinking-- that kind of thinking, 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:46.310 align:middle line:84% if I learn this thing, it'll help me generically 00:16:46.310 --> 00:16:48.380 align:middle line:84% with these other things-- shows up all the time. 00:16:48.380 --> 00:16:50.685 align:middle line:84% The most contemporary version of this 00:16:50.685 --> 00:16:52.310 align:middle line:84% is-- have you ever encountered the idea 00:16:52.310 --> 00:16:54.110 align:middle line:90% of computational thinking? 00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:56.330 align:middle line:84% What people mean by computational thinking, almost 00:16:56.330 --> 00:16:59.067 align:middle line:84% all the time, is we're going to teach you computer programming. 00:16:59.067 --> 00:17:00.900 align:middle line:84% And if you learn about computer programming, 00:17:00.900 --> 00:17:03.109 align:middle line:84% you're going to learn how to break ideas down 00:17:03.109 --> 00:17:04.609 align:middle line:84% into smaller parts, and you're going 00:17:04.609 --> 00:17:06.442 align:middle line:84% to learn how to think algorithmically and do 00:17:06.442 --> 00:17:07.280 align:middle line:90% all these other-- 00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:08.822 align:middle line:84% and it's like, no, you're going to be 00:17:08.822 --> 00:17:10.579 align:middle line:90% good at programming computers. 00:17:10.579 --> 00:17:13.680 align:middle line:84% If you want to be able to break ideas down in poetry, 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.077 align:middle line:84% learning computer programming will not help you do that. 00:17:16.077 --> 00:17:17.660 align:middle line:84% I mean, it will help you about as much 00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:19.202 align:middle line:84% as learning Latin and Greek will help 00:17:19.202 --> 00:17:21.260 align:middle line:84% you do that, which is to say, not that much, 00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:23.060 align:middle line:84% that a frustrating thing about teaching 00:17:23.060 --> 00:17:26.270 align:middle line:84% is the things we learn tend to only help us 00:17:26.270 --> 00:17:29.090 align:middle line:90% in very near cognate areas. 00:17:29.090 --> 00:17:30.890 align:middle line:90% So these are the two-- 00:17:30.890 --> 00:17:33.470 align:middle line:84% again, I'm trying to give you the sense that these two 00:17:33.470 --> 00:17:36.210 align:middle line:90% big ideas are millennia old. 00:17:36.210 --> 00:17:39.392 align:middle line:84% They have a scientific basis that's at least a century old. 00:17:39.392 --> 00:17:40.850 align:middle line:84% And you're getting what I think are 00:17:40.850 --> 00:17:44.900 align:middle line:84% some of the best, most recent contemporary formulations, 00:17:44.900 --> 00:17:47.420 align:middle line:84% like the work of John Sweller and some of these other folks, 00:17:47.420 --> 00:17:50.510 align:middle line:84% like the little piece you read from Mitch Resnick for today. 00:17:50.510 --> 00:17:53.270 align:middle line:84% And then maybe just to give you a broader overview, 00:17:53.270 --> 00:17:56.162 align:middle line:84% overwhelmingly, Thorndike has won. 00:17:56.162 --> 00:17:58.370 align:middle line:84% If you were to walk through a typical American school 00:17:58.370 --> 00:18:01.460 align:middle line:84% on a typical American day, you would see very little education 00:18:01.460 --> 00:18:05.120 align:middle line:84% as life itself, and you would see a lot of direct instruction. 00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:08.090 align:middle line:84% The canonical experience of students in schools 00:18:08.090 --> 00:18:11.130 align:middle line:84% is very organized around direct instruction. 00:18:11.130 --> 00:18:13.460 align:middle line:84% However, if you were to ask teachers 00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:16.133 align:middle line:84% who their favorite educational philosopher is, 00:18:16.133 --> 00:18:18.050 align:middle line:84% you would get a lot of answers that are Dewey, 00:18:18.050 --> 00:18:21.290 align:middle line:84% and you would not get a lot of answers that were Thorndike. 00:18:21.290 --> 00:18:25.530 align:middle line:84% So Dewey is beloved in a way that Thorndike is not, 00:18:25.530 --> 00:18:27.290 align:middle line:84% but Thorndike is actually the person 00:18:27.290 --> 00:18:29.170 align:middle line:90% who inspires more of our ideas. 00:18:29.170 --> 00:18:29.670 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:32.180 align:middle line:84% Let's do just a little bit of close reading 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:34.722 align:middle line:84% together, which is mostly me telling you about some things 00:18:34.722 --> 00:18:35.930 align:middle line:90% that you should read closely. 00:18:35.930 --> 00:18:38.080 align:middle line:84% This is what we looked at yesterday. 00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:44.260 align:middle line:84% One thing that's fun about the cognitive load theory people 00:18:44.260 --> 00:18:47.950 align:middle line:84% is that they're really good at stating clearly 00:18:47.950 --> 00:18:51.080 align:middle line:84% what their models of human cognitive architecture are. 00:18:51.080 --> 00:18:54.260 align:middle line:84% I think the situated learning people have cognates. 00:18:54.260 --> 00:18:56.590 align:middle line:84% I think they have things that they believe 00:18:56.590 --> 00:19:01.330 align:middle line:84% are central about the brain, how learning works, 00:19:01.330 --> 00:19:03.160 align:middle line:84% but they would draw a different model. 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.535 align:middle line:84% This is not what they would draw. 00:19:04.535 --> 00:19:06.610 align:middle line:84% And they're less explicit about it, which makes 00:19:06.610 --> 00:19:07.850 align:middle line:90% our job a little bit harder. 00:19:07.850 --> 00:19:09.910 align:middle line:84% But a thing that you can be thinking about now 00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:16.300 align:middle line:84% is, what is the situated learning cognate of this? 00:19:16.300 --> 00:19:17.800 align:middle line:84% What would be the pieces that they 00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:19.175 align:middle line:84% would put in the model that would 00:19:19.175 --> 00:19:21.300 align:middle line:84% be most important for their developmental learning? 00:19:21.300 --> 00:19:23.342 align:middle line:84% We'll play with that as we go along a little bit. 00:19:23.342 --> 00:19:24.160 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:28.180 align:middle line:84% How many of you have ever used the Logo programming language? 00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:29.350 align:middle line:90% Oh good. 00:19:29.350 --> 00:19:30.940 align:middle line:84% How many of you have used Scratch? 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:32.440 align:middle line:90% OK, then we got everybody. 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.950 align:middle line:84% So Scratch is a descendant of Logo. 00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:37.080 align:middle line:84% Logo is a programming language that 00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:41.280 align:middle line:84% was developed by Seymour Papert in the Media Lab, one 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:46.020 align:middle line:84% of the first efforts to bring computer programming to kids 00:19:46.020 --> 00:19:46.900 align:middle line:90% in schools. 00:19:46.900 --> 00:19:50.227 align:middle line:84% When I was in the fourth grade at a Montessori school in South 00:19:50.227 --> 00:19:52.560 align:middle line:84% Natick, not far from here, we had a little computer lab, 00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:55.020 align:middle line:84% and Logo was the language that I learned to do 00:19:55.020 --> 00:19:57.360 align:middle line:90% a little bit of programming in. 00:19:57.360 --> 00:20:02.190 align:middle line:84% You'll see that a lot of it is about shapes and geometry, 00:20:02.190 --> 00:20:05.640 align:middle line:84% but what I really loved about it was Choose Your Own Adventures. 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:10.860 align:middle line:84% So you could essentially write a program or function, whatever 00:20:10.860 --> 00:20:13.260 align:middle line:84% it is, in which someone types a word 00:20:13.260 --> 00:20:17.970 align:middle line:84% and that triggers the display of a set of text. 00:20:17.970 --> 00:20:21.660 align:middle line:84% And so it wasn't that hard to make Choose Your Own Adventures. 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:23.860 align:middle line:84% You're at the front of the house. 00:20:23.860 --> 00:20:25.140 align:middle line:90% Do you want to walk up? 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:28.050 align:middle line:84% Type "porch" if you want to walk into porch. 00:20:28.050 --> 00:20:30.960 align:middle line:84% Type "knock" if you want to knock on the door. 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.700 align:middle line:84% And then knock is a program that releases another set of text, 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:35.580 align:middle line:84% and you can make a Choose Your Own Adventure that way. 00:20:35.580 --> 00:20:36.940 align:middle line:84% How important is that for you to know? 00:20:36.940 --> 00:20:37.482 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:20:37.482 --> 00:20:42.630 align:middle line:84% But here is a few minutes of Seymour Papert, who 00:20:42.630 --> 00:20:45.120 align:middle line:84% was a student of Jean Piaget, who's 00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:48.430 align:middle line:84% another kind of major social constructivist thinker. 00:20:48.430 --> 00:20:53.100 align:middle line:84% Here's what Logo was supposed to look like in the classroom 00:20:53.100 --> 00:20:55.726 align:middle line:84% in the 1980s, about when I was a kid. 00:20:55.726 --> 00:20:56.580 align:middle line:90% [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 00:20:56.580 --> 00:20:59.200 align:middle line:90% - The idea is quite simple. 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.680 align:middle line:84% Let a child learn mathematics by speaking 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.430 align:middle line:84% in mathematics about things that really matter to him. 00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:10.020 align:middle line:84% So at MIT, we've given computers the power to turn motors, 00:21:10.020 --> 00:21:13.050 align:middle line:84% to make sounds, to draw pictures, 00:21:13.050 --> 00:21:16.080 align:middle line:84% and we've found ways of giving children the power 00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:18.520 align:middle line:90% to control the computer. 00:21:18.520 --> 00:21:21.120 align:middle line:84% So the child can make the computer do anything 00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:24.390 align:middle line:84% that he can describe in a suitable mathematical language 00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:27.005 align:middle line:84% by typing on a keyboard like this. 00:21:27.005 --> 00:21:30.540 align:middle line:90% 00:21:30.540 --> 00:21:31.536 align:middle line:90% - Play it. 00:21:31.536 --> 00:21:33.816 align:middle line:90% [PLAYFUL TUNE] 00:21:33.816 --> 00:21:34.730 align:middle line:90% 00:21:34.730 --> 00:21:37.440 align:middle line:90% That's what P1 sounds like. 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:37.940 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:38.635 align:middle line:90% Tap P2. 00:21:38.635 --> 00:21:42.894 align:middle line:90% 00:21:42.894 --> 00:21:45.384 align:middle line:90% [PLAYFUL TUNE] 00:21:45.384 --> 00:21:45.890 align:middle line:90% 00:21:45.890 --> 00:21:47.000 align:middle line:90% That's P2. 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:47.620 align:middle line:90% And P3. 00:21:47.620 --> 00:21:51.876 align:middle line:90% 00:21:51.876 --> 00:21:54.261 align:middle line:90% [PLAYFUL TUNE] 00:21:54.261 --> 00:21:55.700 align:middle line:90% 00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:58.610 align:middle line:84% - A computer-controlled turtle is made to draw and dance 00:21:58.610 --> 00:22:01.670 align:middle line:84% by programs so simple that all children invent them 00:22:01.670 --> 00:22:03.270 align:middle line:90% in the first days of the course. 00:22:03.270 --> 00:22:06.170 align:middle line:84% Thus, the child acquires a taste of math power 00:22:06.170 --> 00:22:09.540 align:middle line:84% that grows and grows as his projects become more original, 00:22:09.540 --> 00:22:11.930 align:middle line:90% more complex, and more varied. 00:22:11.930 --> 00:22:15.630 align:middle line:84% - So you have the first one, then the second one, 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.800 align:middle line:84% then the third one, then the first one again for the ending. 00:22:18.800 --> 00:22:19.565 align:middle line:90% - OK. 00:22:19.565 --> 00:22:21.440 align:middle line:84% - Now they will put the little tunes together 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.356 align:middle line:90% to make a bigger one. 00:22:24.356 --> 00:22:27.709 align:middle line:90% [LONGER PLAYFUL TUNE] 00:22:27.709 --> 00:22:32.810 align:middle line:90% 00:22:32.810 --> 00:22:33.310 align:middle line:90% - Try it. 00:22:33.310 --> 00:22:38.470 align:middle line:90% 00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:40.340 align:middle line:90% - Now I'm telling it to do it. 00:22:40.340 --> 00:22:45.310 align:middle line:90% 00:22:45.310 --> 00:22:47.710 align:middle line:90% Oh no. 00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:52.990 align:middle line:84% Sometimes I get into the box like this and it'll-- 00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:55.340 align:middle line:84% when it was doing it in his mind, 00:22:55.340 --> 00:23:02.660 align:middle line:84% the little turtle, the little triangle thing, was on an angle. 00:23:02.660 --> 00:23:06.820 align:middle line:84% So it drew the picture on an angle. 00:23:06.820 --> 00:23:10.180 align:middle line:84% So now I'll go back and have it draw it in its mind 00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:12.680 align:middle line:84% again while it's in the right position. 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.080 align:middle line:84% - And so the child doesn't have to be told by a teacher 00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:16.520 align:middle line:90% whether he's right or wrong. 00:23:16.520 --> 00:23:19.270 align:middle line:84% He can see for himself whether it works. 00:23:19.270 --> 00:23:22.100 align:middle line:84% That's what science and knowledge is about. 00:23:22.100 --> 00:23:24.740 align:middle line:84% - So this procedure is named Fancy. 00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:26.920 align:middle line:84% And then you have an input, which 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:29.460 align:middle line:90% means you can vary the size. 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:34.560 align:middle line:90% I'm going to make it 100. 00:23:34.560 --> 00:23:39.720 align:middle line:84% Right now it's doing a procedure called Top. 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:43.900 align:middle line:84% And each one of those little fins is called Fin. 00:23:43.900 --> 00:23:46.920 align:middle line:84% And that's another subprocedure on Top. 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.635 align:middle line:90% Now it's doing Inside. 00:23:49.635 --> 00:23:51.900 align:middle line:84% - There are identifiable techniques 00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:53.260 align:middle line:90% for working on a problem. 00:23:53.260 --> 00:23:55.260 align:middle line:84% One of these is known by these children 00:23:55.260 --> 00:23:58.480 align:middle line:84% as writing procedures as subprocedures. 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:02.850 align:middle line:84% - Inside and Top are the two main subprocedures. 00:24:02.850 --> 00:24:08.040 align:middle line:84% And the other one, the tail is made out of odds and ends, 00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:10.590 align:middle line:90% just put together. 00:24:10.590 --> 00:24:12.540 align:middle line:84% - The technique's very well known. 00:24:12.540 --> 00:24:14.320 align:middle line:90% Subdivide the problem. 00:24:14.320 --> 00:24:16.200 align:middle line:90% Split the difficulties. 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.497 align:middle line:84% Make a procedure out of subprocedures. 00:24:18.497 --> 00:24:19.080 align:middle line:90% Make a whole-- 00:24:19.080 --> 00:24:19.410 align:middle line:90% [END PLAYBACK] 00:24:19.410 --> 00:24:21.202 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: I'll just tell you one second 00:24:21.202 --> 00:24:23.110 align:middle line:84% about this little robot, which, again, 00:24:23.110 --> 00:24:24.610 align:middle line:90% is iconic to my childhood. 00:24:24.610 --> 00:24:27.240 align:middle line:84% I had a commercialized version of this. 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.442 align:middle line:84% But it takes the same commands and uses the same language 00:24:30.442 --> 00:24:31.900 align:middle line:84% as the turtle that's on the screen. 00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:33.190 align:middle line:90% So you tell it Forward 10. 00:24:33.190 --> 00:24:34.440 align:middle line:84% And there's some equivalent to Forward 10 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:35.740 align:middle line:84% that also shows up on the screen. 00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:37.865 align:middle line:84% It has a pen that's mounted in it that's controlled 00:24:37.865 --> 00:24:39.600 align:middle line:90% with Pen Up and Pen Down. 00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:42.427 align:middle line:84% So you can make varying kinds of shapes using that. 00:24:42.427 --> 00:24:44.760 align:middle line:84% And then if you see the cable that the person is walking 00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:46.330 align:middle line:84% around with, that was a serial cable, 00:24:46.330 --> 00:24:48.913 align:middle line:84% which is the primary thing we used to use to connect computers 00:24:48.913 --> 00:24:49.540 align:middle line:90% to peripherals. 00:24:49.540 --> 00:24:53.405 align:middle line:84% So before wireless or before USB or other things, 00:24:53.405 --> 00:24:54.780 align:middle line:84% that was the cable that they were 00:24:54.780 --> 00:24:56.620 align:middle line:90% using to move things around. 00:24:56.620 --> 00:24:57.390 align:middle line:90% [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 00:24:57.390 --> 00:24:58.140 align:middle line:90% - --subprocedures. 00:24:58.140 --> 00:24:59.620 align:middle line:90% Make a whole out of parts. 00:24:59.620 --> 00:25:01.380 align:middle line:90% Understand each separately. 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:05.460 align:middle line:84% Everybody knows that, but they don't do it. 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:07.980 align:middle line:84% - Now it's moving across the screen the way 00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:11.880 align:middle line:84% I told you it did it before, but this time, this 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:15.130 align:middle line:84% is the way I taught myself to get it across the screen. 00:25:15.130 --> 00:25:17.290 align:middle line:84% It's the first time I had done it. 00:25:17.290 --> 00:25:20.520 align:middle line:84% And so the way I had the little one to go 00:25:20.520 --> 00:25:22.770 align:middle line:84% is every time it moves up a little, 00:25:22.770 --> 00:25:26.180 align:middle line:84% it subtracts a number, a little bit of a number. 00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:29.460 align:middle line:90% And then it's a small number. 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:33.230 align:middle line:84% And when it's a certain number, I tell it that it should stop. 00:25:33.230 --> 00:25:35.330 align:middle line:84% - Martha is getting mathematical knowledge 00:25:35.330 --> 00:25:39.350 align:middle line:84% in a meaningful context for use now. 00:25:39.350 --> 00:25:42.140 align:middle line:84% - It just told me I can't move off the screen. 00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:44.720 align:middle line:84% - When I was at school, they told 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.820 align:middle line:84% me to learn long division because I 00:25:46.820 --> 00:25:48.740 align:middle line:90% would need it when I grew up. 00:25:48.740 --> 00:25:52.070 align:middle line:90% And I think I knew it was a lie. 00:25:52.070 --> 00:25:54.080 align:middle line:84% I think it was to make me despise 00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:56.480 align:middle line:90% the teachers a little more. 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:03.230 align:middle line:84% - Now it's telling me to give a subprocedure. 00:26:03.230 --> 00:26:05.480 align:middle line:90% Now the bottom of the fish. 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:10.170 align:middle line:84% - Steven is using the ideas of angle, of subprocedure, 00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:14.040 align:middle line:84% of arc, and of circle in a confident, purposeful way. 00:26:14.040 --> 00:26:16.490 align:middle line:84% - The tail, the triangle part, is made out 00:26:16.490 --> 00:26:19.400 align:middle line:90% of a procedure called Try 1. 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:26.510 align:middle line:84% First you've got to do Right 16 and Forward 50, Back 50. 00:26:26.510 --> 00:26:29.890 align:middle line:90% Left 60, Forward 50, Back 50. 00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:35.830 align:middle line:84% Left 60, Forward 50, Back 50, and so on and so forth. 00:26:35.830 --> 00:26:39.070 align:middle line:90% Now it's doing a Firm. 00:26:39.070 --> 00:26:43.930 align:middle line:84% That's a radius of 300 and an arc of 90. 00:26:43.930 --> 00:26:45.940 align:middle line:90% I made a big radius. 00:26:45.940 --> 00:26:51.040 align:middle line:84% And then I went left, which will go right over it 00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:52.340 align:middle line:90% and bring it back. 00:26:52.340 --> 00:26:56.480 align:middle line:84% And then I made a smaller radius of the same arc. 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.380 align:middle line:90% And then it would do that again. 00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:01.010 align:middle line:90% Then it's an even smaller one. 00:27:01.010 --> 00:27:01.970 align:middle line:90% It will do that again. 00:27:01.970 --> 00:27:05.320 align:middle line:90% And that's how I got the fern. 00:27:05.320 --> 00:27:06.940 align:middle line:90% There we are. 00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:10.690 align:middle line:90% There's the finished picture. 00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:14.300 align:middle line:84% - I've made a big song, and I used that for part of it. 00:27:14.300 --> 00:27:19.360 align:middle line:84% And then I made an accompaniment with it with the drum. 00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:20.100 align:middle line:90% And that's-- 00:27:20.100 --> 00:27:30.220 align:middle line:90% 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:33.650 align:middle line:90% [PLAYFUL TUNE] 00:27:33.650 --> 00:27:45.430 align:middle line:90% 00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:47.860 align:middle line:84% - The kids tell me that's a spiral. 00:27:47.860 --> 00:27:50.440 align:middle line:84% And I think that was a new mathematical word that was born 00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.270 align:middle line:90% there that's going to stick. 00:27:52.270 --> 00:27:56.725 align:middle line:90% I'd call that real discovery. 00:27:56.725 --> 00:27:58.210 align:middle line:90% [END PLAYBACK] 00:27:58.210 --> 00:27:59.260 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:00.738 align:middle line:90% We won't spend time with this. 00:28:00.738 --> 00:28:02.030 align:middle line:90% Turn to the people next to you. 00:28:02.030 --> 00:28:02.630 align:middle line:90% Talk to them a little bit. 00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:04.120 align:middle line:84% What are the things that you saw in there 00:28:04.120 --> 00:28:05.620 align:middle line:84% that cohere with ideas that you read 00:28:05.620 --> 00:28:07.880 align:middle line:84% about from other communities of situated learning? 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:09.255 align:middle line:84% What are some things that you saw 00:28:09.255 --> 00:28:11.440 align:middle line:84% in there that cohered with cognitive load theory? 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.290 align:middle line:84% Do you see evidence of direct instruction 00:28:14.290 --> 00:28:15.907 align:middle line:90% that was in there anywhere? 00:28:15.907 --> 00:28:17.740 align:middle line:84% And then, what kind of learning environments 00:28:17.740 --> 00:28:21.057 align:middle line:84% have you been, where you learned in this kind of way that 00:28:21.057 --> 00:28:23.640 align:middle line:84% was pleasurable, and have people been in learning environments 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.807 align:middle line:84% where you've learned in this way that you found very 00:28:25.807 --> 00:28:27.210 align:middle line:90% unpleasurable and unlikable? 00:28:27.210 --> 00:28:28.180 align:middle line:84% Discuss that for a couple minutes. 00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:28.680 align:middle line:90% Ready? 00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:29.795 align:middle line:90% Go. 00:28:29.795 --> 00:28:30.670 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Every time. 00:28:30.670 --> 00:28:31.110 align:middle line:90% It's awesome. 00:28:31.110 --> 00:28:31.902 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:28:31.902 --> 00:28:33.880 align:middle line:84% What are some connections that people made? 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.510 align:middle line:84% What are some things where you saw 00:28:36.510 --> 00:28:40.030 align:middle line:84% examples of situated learning or cognitive load theory, 00:28:40.030 --> 00:28:44.730 align:middle line:84% or things that seem pleasurable or frustrating? 00:28:44.730 --> 00:28:46.890 align:middle line:84% What did you talk about in your groups? 00:28:46.890 --> 00:28:50.290 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: We were talking about learning programming in general, 00:28:50.290 --> 00:28:53.118 align:middle line:84% or it seems like you always need some base level of whether it's 00:28:53.118 --> 00:28:55.410 align:middle line:84% the instructions or knowing whatever commands there are 00:28:55.410 --> 00:28:58.110 align:middle line:84% in Logo, and that most likely comes from more 00:28:58.110 --> 00:28:59.440 align:middle line:90% of an instructional place. 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.720 align:middle line:84% But then you can get into these situations, 00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:03.970 align:middle line:84% like we saw in the video, where it becomes open world. 00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:05.970 align:middle line:84% But it still seems like you need some base level 00:29:05.970 --> 00:29:07.170 align:middle line:90% where CLT needs to come in. 00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:09.870 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, or some kind of direct instruction. 00:29:09.870 --> 00:29:15.450 align:middle line:84% What evidence of direct instruction did people see? 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:17.880 align:middle line:84% Where were you like, eh, that kid didn't figure that out 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.640 align:middle line:90% on their own. 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:20.320 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I mean, just the terminology. 00:29:20.320 --> 00:29:22.610 align:middle line:84% They figured out procedure, subprocedure, all 00:29:22.610 --> 00:29:25.115 align:middle line:90% of these things hard phrases. 00:29:25.115 --> 00:29:27.210 align:middle line:84% A kid wouldn't just figure this out. 00:29:27.210 --> 00:29:27.320 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:29:27.320 --> 00:29:27.570 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:29:27.570 --> 00:29:30.050 align:middle line:84% It doesn't seem like Steven came up with the term "procedure" 00:29:30.050 --> 00:29:30.842 align:middle line:90% and "subprocedure." 00:29:30.842 --> 00:29:34.070 align:middle line:84% Pretty sure somebody taught him, sat down, and said, 00:29:34.070 --> 00:29:35.780 align:middle line:84% here are a couple of useful definitions 00:29:35.780 --> 00:29:37.780 align:middle line:84% that will allow us to communicate with this more 00:29:37.780 --> 00:29:38.308 align:middle line:90% clearly. 00:29:38.308 --> 00:29:40.850 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Also, we were talking about when the two girls were 00:29:40.850 --> 00:29:41.767 align:middle line:90% talking to each other. 00:29:41.767 --> 00:29:45.090 align:middle line:84% It was like one at the beginning was instructing the other 00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:46.320 align:middle line:90% to actually make the music. 00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:46.430 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:29:46.430 --> 00:29:47.330 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So I guess that's kind of-- 00:29:47.330 --> 00:29:49.050 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Oh, very direct instruction. 00:29:49.050 --> 00:29:49.350 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:29:49.350 --> 00:29:51.750 align:middle line:84% Direct instruction within a situated learning environment. 00:29:51.750 --> 00:29:51.860 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:29:51.860 --> 00:29:52.110 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:29:52.110 --> 00:29:53.180 align:middle line:90% I mean it's-- yeah, yeah. 00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:55.130 align:middle line:90% It's a kind of worked example. 00:29:55.130 --> 00:29:58.638 align:middle line:84% Oh, I'm going to show you how I made a thing. 00:29:58.638 --> 00:30:00.680 align:middle line:84% We're going to make this thing together right now 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:02.790 align:middle line:84% by, first of all, play each of the pieces. 00:30:02.790 --> 00:30:04.300 align:middle line:84% Now we're going to play all the pieces together. 00:30:04.300 --> 00:30:05.800 align:middle line:84% I've already learned how to do that. 00:30:05.800 --> 00:30:08.210 align:middle line:84% What makes it a kind of peer learning, 00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:10.690 align:middle line:84% situated learning kind of thing is it's one young person 00:30:10.690 --> 00:30:11.940 align:middle line:90% teaching it to another person. 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:15.070 align:middle line:84% But it does seem to be direct instruction, for sure. 00:30:15.070 --> 00:30:17.570 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That kind of led us into a conversation about how, 00:30:17.570 --> 00:30:20.780 align:middle line:84% within situated learning, that there's 00:30:20.780 --> 00:30:23.930 align:middle line:84% two ways that it can be seen as you have someone who's 00:30:23.930 --> 00:30:27.110 align:middle line:84% an old timer, like the other girl explaining 00:30:27.110 --> 00:30:31.340 align:middle line:84% to the other girl about the situation 00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:32.580 align:middle line:90% that they were working with. 00:30:32.580 --> 00:30:34.460 align:middle line:84% But then there's also the instances 00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:38.210 align:middle line:84% when it was just the student and the computer and that you lost 00:30:38.210 --> 00:30:41.960 align:middle line:84% that social aspect that you have of learning from another person. 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:44.570 align:middle line:84% And then we went into an interesting conversation about 00:30:44.570 --> 00:30:48.710 align:middle line:84% whether maybe the student was having a social interaction 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:51.743 align:middle line:84% from themself and learning with the computer as a tool, 00:30:51.743 --> 00:30:53.660 align:middle line:84% or maybe they were having a social interaction 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:55.290 align:middle line:84% with the computer itself and they 00:30:55.290 --> 00:30:57.290 align:middle line:84% were learning from the computer and the computer 00:30:57.290 --> 00:31:01.278 align:middle line:84% was learning what they really wanted the outcome to be. 00:31:01.278 --> 00:31:02.070 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:31:02.070 --> 00:31:02.670 align:middle line:90% Yeah, good. 00:31:02.670 --> 00:31:03.920 align:middle line:84% Yeah, that's definitely something 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:05.503 align:middle line:84% we'll think about more as we go along. 00:31:05.503 --> 00:31:07.590 align:middle line:84% What kind of agent is the machine? 00:31:07.590 --> 00:31:09.970 align:middle line:84% What kind of relationship do we have to the machines? 00:31:09.970 --> 00:31:11.220 align:middle line:90% How does the machine motivate? 00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:12.440 align:middle line:90% How does the machine explain? 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:14.623 align:middle line:84% The thing that seems pretty rad here, 00:31:14.623 --> 00:31:16.040 align:middle line:84% that Seymour Papert is telling us, 00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:19.600 align:middle line:84% is that the machine gives some great feedback, although lots 00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:21.040 align:middle line:90% of other things do. 00:31:21.040 --> 00:31:23.090 align:middle line:90% Hand drills give great feedback. 00:31:23.090 --> 00:31:25.550 align:middle line:84% When you go through the wall, you know it. 00:31:25.550 --> 00:31:27.890 align:middle line:84% And when you hit something metal or something like that, 00:31:27.890 --> 00:31:28.390 align:middle line:90% you know it. 00:31:28.390 --> 00:31:30.460 align:middle line:84% And you get that kind of instant feedback. 00:31:30.460 --> 00:31:32.710 align:middle line:84% There are other things that we teach people 00:31:32.710 --> 00:31:36.130 align:middle line:84% where it's just hard to imagine where that instant feedback 00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:37.510 align:middle line:90% might come from. 00:31:37.510 --> 00:31:40.730 align:middle line:84% Writing is often that way, especially writing other people. 00:31:40.730 --> 00:31:42.380 align:middle line:90% There's nothing that is-- 00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:44.650 align:middle line:84% we haven't built things very well where a machine can 00:31:44.650 --> 00:31:46.420 align:middle line:84% tell you, oh, that's a compelling way 00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:49.390 align:middle line:84% of expressing that idea, in the same way that I can be like, 00:31:49.390 --> 00:31:51.700 align:middle line:90% oh, my swan is on its side. 00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:57.640 align:middle line:84% So different technologies and different things that we study 00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:00.610 align:middle line:84% have different capacity to give us immediate feedback of what 00:32:00.610 --> 00:32:02.740 align:middle line:90% we're doing. 00:32:02.740 --> 00:32:03.310 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:32:03.310 --> 00:32:04.935 align:middle line:84% Has anybody ever been in an environment 00:32:04.935 --> 00:32:07.692 align:middle line:84% like this, where you're like, oh my gosh, this is the worst? 00:32:07.692 --> 00:32:10.150 align:middle line:84% Anyone have experience in this kind of open-ended learning, 00:32:10.150 --> 00:32:12.980 align:middle line:84% where you're like, this is terrible? 00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:14.870 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, I remember this one-- 00:32:14.870 --> 00:32:17.260 align:middle line:84% I guess this is a more recent MIT experience, 00:32:17.260 --> 00:32:19.980 align:middle line:84% where basically one of the classes' final project 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:21.150 align:middle line:90% was very open ended. 00:32:21.150 --> 00:32:23.740 align:middle line:84% And they were like, oh, just design this game. 00:32:23.740 --> 00:32:25.027 align:middle line:90% And I was like, wow. 00:32:25.027 --> 00:32:26.610 align:middle line:84% It would be nice to get some kind of-- 00:32:26.610 --> 00:32:27.270 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, will you please 00:32:27.270 --> 00:32:29.280 align:middle line:90% show me how to design this game? 00:32:29.280 --> 00:32:31.030 align:middle line:84% Someone has figured this out before. 00:32:31.030 --> 00:32:33.835 align:middle line:84% I don't want to explore this space forever. 00:32:33.835 --> 00:32:36.210 align:middle line:84% No, I've definitely had people who have taken this class, 00:32:36.210 --> 00:32:38.752 align:middle line:84% and they watch this video, and they're like, give me a break. 00:32:38.752 --> 00:32:41.760 align:middle line:84% Just show me how to use the turtle. 00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:45.210 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I would say, in high school, a lot of the AP Computer 00:32:45.210 --> 00:32:49.600 align:middle line:84% Science classes are very into this kind of situated learning. 00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:52.800 align:middle line:84% But then, if you have certain classrooms where-- 00:32:52.800 --> 00:32:55.650 align:middle line:84% in my instance, it was just overloaded with people 00:32:55.650 --> 00:32:56.850 align:middle line:90% who just needed an elective. 00:32:56.850 --> 00:32:58.950 align:middle line:84% And they were like, you have to take this class. 00:32:58.950 --> 00:33:04.440 align:middle line:84% Then it becomes-- that peer-to-peer interaction becomes 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:06.120 align:middle line:84% an issue where it's like, OK, you 00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:09.930 align:middle line:84% have three people who are trying to teach 30 other people how 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:13.380 align:middle line:84% to do a specific thing because you're in the same group 00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:16.120 align:middle line:84% and they have to pass, and they don't really care anyway. 00:33:16.120 --> 00:33:16.320 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:33:16.320 --> 00:33:17.550 align:middle line:84% People have different motivations. 00:33:17.550 --> 00:33:19.950 align:middle line:84% I mean, a huge problem that computer science education 00:33:19.950 --> 00:33:20.950 align:middle line:90% has is that people-- 00:33:20.950 --> 00:33:22.617 align:middle line:84% unlike other subjects, people come to it 00:33:22.617 --> 00:33:25.200 align:middle line:84% with very different levels of background experience. 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.870 align:middle line:84% So none of you probably ever took a geology class 00:33:27.870 --> 00:33:30.730 align:middle line:84% where a third of the kids were like, man, I just love geology. 00:33:30.730 --> 00:33:32.947 align:middle line:84% I do geology all the time in my spare time. 00:33:32.947 --> 00:33:34.030 align:middle line:90% I'm way ahead of you guys. 00:33:34.030 --> 00:33:35.820 align:middle line:84% But that is essentially what just about every computer 00:33:35.820 --> 00:33:38.400 align:middle line:84% science class we teach is like, where a chunk of people 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.180 align:middle line:84% are way into it and know a bunch more already. 00:33:41.180 --> 00:33:42.930 align:middle line:84% And in fact, those open-ended environments 00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:46.770 align:middle line:84% can be really great for those folks who 00:33:46.770 --> 00:33:48.240 align:middle line:84% have that extra expertise, and they 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.330 align:middle line:84% can be a real bummer for people who can't jump in as naturally. 00:33:52.330 --> 00:33:54.210 align:middle line:84% Harmon, what were you going to say? 00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:57.720 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think what this made me think of is how CLT 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:01.470 align:middle line:84% and situated learning cannot be really separated from each 00:34:01.470 --> 00:34:02.050 align:middle line:90% other. 00:34:02.050 --> 00:34:06.010 align:middle line:84% Sometimes you need to CLT to give framework for students, 00:34:06.010 --> 00:34:08.699 align:middle line:84% and then from that, I guess, you can fire 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:09.824 align:middle line:90% the wood and the situated-- 00:34:09.824 --> 00:34:10.616 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:34:10.616 --> 00:34:11.190 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:34:11.190 --> 00:34:12.280 align:middle line:90% I like it, I like it. 00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:12.389 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:34:12.389 --> 00:34:12.699 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:34:12.699 --> 00:34:14.949 align:middle line:84% What are the-- I think that's a great question to ask. 00:34:14.949 --> 00:34:17.690 align:middle line:84% What are the different combination and permutations-- 00:34:17.690 --> 00:34:19.650 align:middle line:84% the reason why these ideas have existed, 00:34:19.650 --> 00:34:22.040 align:middle line:84% that we can find evidence of them for 2,000 years, 00:34:22.040 --> 00:34:24.590 align:middle line:84% is that they both seem pretty good. 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:28.592 align:middle line:84% They both seem useful in different ways. 00:34:28.592 --> 00:34:32.300 align:middle line:84% Seymour Papert is once talking about his teachers lying to them 00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:33.690 align:middle line:90% and despising schools. 00:34:33.690 --> 00:34:35.510 align:middle line:84% But you can also find school things, 00:34:35.510 --> 00:34:38.000 align:middle line:84% like we're going to need some definitions that I teach you 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:41.780 align:middle line:84% that are kind of woven even in this extreme example. 00:34:41.780 --> 00:34:43.760 align:middle line:84% Let me give you a few pieces from the thing 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.650 align:middle line:84% that you read from a guy named Jean Lave, who, 00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:48.830 align:middle line:84% with another person named Etienne Wenger, 00:34:48.830 --> 00:34:51.409 align:middle line:84% really advanced some of these ideas. 00:34:51.409 --> 00:34:53.900 align:middle line:84% And I want you to be thinking about, 00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:56.360 align:middle line:84% so how is it like-- what are the methods 00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:58.020 align:middle line:90% that this person uses to study? 00:34:58.020 --> 00:34:59.850 align:middle line:84% What are the kind of arguments they make? 00:34:59.850 --> 00:35:01.770 align:middle line:84% What are the implications for pedagogy? 00:35:01.770 --> 00:35:05.730 align:middle line:84% What's their framework about human beings and how they learn? 00:35:05.730 --> 00:35:08.140 align:middle line:84% And where do these things lap and overlap? 00:35:08.140 --> 00:35:10.820 align:middle line:84% It can often seem like when you're writing about-- 00:35:10.820 --> 00:35:13.070 align:middle line:84% if you read a bunch of stuff on cognitive load theory, 00:35:13.070 --> 00:35:15.230 align:middle line:84% it seems like they're just talking about instruction, 00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.690 align:middle line:84% and they mostly are, but there are 00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:18.220 align:middle line:84% ways that talking about instruction 00:35:18.220 --> 00:35:20.950 align:middle line:84% that evoke their beliefs about culture, that 00:35:20.950 --> 00:35:23.410 align:middle line:84% evoke their beliefs about values, that 00:35:23.410 --> 00:35:25.495 align:middle line:84% evoke their beliefs around methods and outcomes, 00:35:25.495 --> 00:35:27.620 align:middle line:84% even if they don't talk about those things as much. 00:35:27.620 --> 00:35:30.700 align:middle line:84% "In this chapter, I propose to consider learning not 00:35:30.700 --> 00:35:34.450 align:middle line:84% as a process of socially shared cognition that results 00:35:34.450 --> 00:35:37.120 align:middle line:84% in the end in the internalization of knowledge 00:35:37.120 --> 00:35:41.020 align:middle line:84% by individuals, but as a process of becoming a member 00:35:41.020 --> 00:35:43.900 align:middle line:84% of a sustained community of practice." 00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:47.620 align:middle line:84% So anytime you read anything, a thing that you are almost all 00:35:47.620 --> 00:35:49.930 align:middle line:84% probably trained to do is try to figure out, 00:35:49.930 --> 00:35:51.557 align:middle line:84% what is the person's core argument? 00:35:51.557 --> 00:35:53.140 align:middle line:84% What is the thing they're arguing for? 00:35:53.140 --> 00:35:55.338 align:middle line:84% An equally useful thing to do, almost any time 00:35:55.338 --> 00:35:57.130 align:middle line:84% you read anything, is to try to figure out, 00:35:57.130 --> 00:35:59.440 align:middle line:84% what is this person arguing against? 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.590 align:middle line:84% And people are often not that explicit. 00:36:02.590 --> 00:36:05.860 align:middle line:84% He's not saying, these jerks who are 00:36:05.860 --> 00:36:08.500 align:middle line:84% really big on schools and direct instruction 00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:09.980 align:middle line:90% have totally missed this stuff. 00:36:09.980 --> 00:36:12.880 align:middle line:84% But that's kind of what he's getting at in here. 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.530 align:middle line:90% And it's a radical statement. 00:36:14.530 --> 00:36:17.350 align:middle line:84% Learning is not the internalization of knowledge. 00:36:17.350 --> 00:36:19.050 align:middle line:84% Last week, I told you that, for some 00:36:19.050 --> 00:36:21.850 align:middle line:84% of these kind of educational psychology people, 00:36:21.850 --> 00:36:23.460 align:middle line:84% memory is the residue of thought. 00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:25.800 align:middle line:84% The entire endpoint of cognitive load theory 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.630 align:middle line:84% is to store facts as memories in our long-term memory. 00:36:30.630 --> 00:36:32.940 align:middle line:84% "Not as the internalization of knowledge 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:34.920 align:middle line:84% as individuals, but as a process of becoming 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.450 align:middle line:84% a member of a sustained community of practice. 00:36:37.450 --> 00:36:40.230 align:middle line:84% Developing an identity as a member of a community 00:36:40.230 --> 00:36:42.000 align:middle line:84% and becoming knowledgeable and skillful 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.110 align:middle line:90% are part of the same process. 00:36:44.110 --> 00:36:47.850 align:middle line:84% You cannot separate storing things in long-term memory from 00:36:47.850 --> 00:36:50.040 align:middle line:84% building relationships with other people, 00:36:50.040 --> 00:36:53.700 align:middle line:84% with the former motivating"-- one of the key things that we 00:36:53.700 --> 00:36:55.590 align:middle line:84% remember our colleague Michael Pershan, 00:36:55.590 --> 00:36:58.260 align:middle line:84% not a theory of everything, where is the motivation?-- 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:00.180 align:middle line:84% "with the former motivating, shaping, 00:37:00.180 --> 00:37:02.620 align:middle line:84% and giving meaning to the latter, which it subsumes. 00:37:02.620 --> 00:37:05.700 align:middle line:84% It is difficult to move from peripheral to full participation 00:37:05.700 --> 00:37:08.230 align:middle line:84% in today's world, including workplaces and schools, 00:37:08.230 --> 00:37:10.730 align:middle line:84% thereby developing knowledgeably skilled identities. 00:37:10.730 --> 00:37:13.180 align:middle line:84% This is because the processes by which we divide and sell 00:37:13.180 --> 00:37:15.970 align:middle line:84% labor, which are ubiquitous in our way of producing goods 00:37:15.970 --> 00:37:17.480 align:middle line:84% and services, including knowledge, 00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:20.918 align:middle line:84% truncate both the movement from peripheral to full participation 00:37:20.918 --> 00:37:22.460 align:middle line:84% and the scope of knowledgeable skill. 00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:26.350 align:middle line:84% Taken to an extreme, these processes separate identity 00:37:26.350 --> 00:37:29.240 align:middle line:84% from intended forms of knowledgeable practice. 00:37:29.240 --> 00:37:32.140 align:middle line:84% This view implies that learning and failure to learn are aspects 00:37:32.140 --> 00:37:34.220 align:middle line:84% of the same social historical processes, 00:37:34.220 --> 00:37:36.400 align:middle line:84% and points to relationships between knowledgeability 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:38.900 align:middle line:84% and identity as important focus for research." 00:37:38.900 --> 00:37:41.435 align:middle line:84% These jerks, these education psychologists, 00:37:41.435 --> 00:37:43.810 align:middle line:84% keep trying to convince you that what learning is is just 00:37:43.810 --> 00:37:45.140 align:middle line:90% shoving stuff in your brain. 00:37:45.140 --> 00:37:46.010 align:middle line:90% It's not. 00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:48.327 align:middle line:84% There are always people around when we're learning. 00:37:48.327 --> 00:37:49.910 align:middle line:84% Even when we're learning by ourselves, 00:37:49.910 --> 00:37:50.960 align:middle line:84% reading books and stuff like that, 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.200 align:middle line:84% there are people in our minds, in our communities that we 00:37:53.200 --> 00:37:54.460 align:middle line:90% see ourselves being part of. 00:37:54.460 --> 00:37:58.930 align:middle line:84% Trying to understand how learning happens in schools 00:37:58.930 --> 00:38:00.895 align:middle line:84% or any other learning environment 00:38:00.895 --> 00:38:02.770 align:middle line:84% without thinking about the social environment 00:38:02.770 --> 00:38:04.820 align:middle line:90% that people learn is bonkers. 00:38:04.820 --> 00:38:06.310 align:middle line:90% It's nuts. 00:38:06.310 --> 00:38:10.100 align:middle line:84% It denies a crucial part of our humanity. 00:38:10.100 --> 00:38:12.710 align:middle line:84% Here is a blog post that you can look at later 00:38:12.710 --> 00:38:13.710 align:middle line:90% if you follow this link. 00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:15.085 align:middle line:84% It's by a wonderful math educator 00:38:15.085 --> 00:38:18.890 align:middle line:84% named Dan Meyer, who has been trying to explain to people why 00:38:18.890 --> 00:38:23.210 align:middle line:84% he thinks AI chatbots are a stupid idea and will not work. 00:38:23.210 --> 00:38:28.560 align:middle line:84% And his core issue is, nobody wants to talk to a computer. 00:38:28.560 --> 00:38:32.000 align:middle line:84% Maybe the computer can provide a perfect, direct instructional 00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.210 align:middle line:84% sequence, but the kids who are in my eighth grade algebra 00:38:35.210 --> 00:38:37.200 align:middle line:84% classroom, they don't want to be there. 00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:39.290 align:middle line:84% They're not interested in algebra. 00:38:39.290 --> 00:38:41.390 align:middle line:90% I love this framing. 00:38:41.390 --> 00:38:46.340 align:middle line:84% "A student attends school to answer two questions-- who am I, 00:38:46.340 --> 00:38:47.828 align:middle line:90% and how do I do this?" 00:38:47.828 --> 00:38:50.370 align:middle line:84% Those are the two things they're thinking about all the time. 00:38:50.370 --> 00:38:52.260 align:middle line:90% Who am I, and how do I do this? 00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:55.997 align:middle line:84% A chatbot cannot help you at all with the first question. 00:38:55.997 --> 00:38:58.080 align:middle line:84% But the other thing that I want to bring up here-- 00:38:58.080 --> 00:38:59.600 align:middle line:84% and you can disagree with that, and we'll talk about it more 00:38:59.600 --> 00:39:00.767 align:middle line:90% when we talk about chatbots. 00:39:00.767 --> 00:39:03.150 align:middle line:84% But who am I, and how do I do this? 00:39:03.150 --> 00:39:05.660 align:middle line:84% This is exactly what Jean Lave was discussing, 00:39:05.660 --> 00:39:08.440 align:middle line:84% that identity cannot be separated from the acquisition 00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:09.760 align:middle line:90% of knowledge. 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.433 align:middle line:84% And I think most of you probably-- 00:39:11.433 --> 00:39:13.600 align:middle line:84% if you think of your own classroom experience, think 00:39:13.600 --> 00:39:14.740 align:middle line:90% of your own school experience. 00:39:14.740 --> 00:39:16.660 align:middle line:84% I spent a lot of time in middle school and high school thinking 00:39:16.660 --> 00:39:18.970 align:middle line:84% to myself, in one form or another, who am I? 00:39:18.970 --> 00:39:20.127 align:middle line:90% What do people think of me? 00:39:20.127 --> 00:39:21.710 align:middle line:84% What kinds of relationships do I have? 00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:22.250 align:middle line:90% Why am I here? 00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:23.542 align:middle line:90% What am I supposed to be doing? 00:39:23.542 --> 00:39:26.170 align:middle line:90% 00:39:26.170 --> 00:39:28.688 align:middle line:84% "Jordan has carried out extensive field research 00:39:28.688 --> 00:39:30.730 align:middle line:84% on the Yucatan Maya midwives whose apprenticeship 00:39:30.730 --> 00:39:32.207 align:middle line:84% is quite different-- more effective 00:39:32.207 --> 00:39:34.790 align:middle line:84% and less exploitative-- than the butchers of Marshall's study. 00:39:34.790 --> 00:39:37.640 align:middle line:84% The apprentices are peripheral participants, 00:39:37.640 --> 00:39:40.560 align:middle line:84% legitimate participants, and legitimate peripheral 00:39:40.560 --> 00:39:41.810 align:middle line:90% to the practice of midwifery." 00:39:41.810 --> 00:39:43.810 align:middle line:84% What did you all take away from what you think-- 00:39:43.810 --> 00:39:46.660 align:middle line:84% what is legitimate peripheral practice or periphery? 00:39:46.660 --> 00:39:49.840 align:middle line:84% What does that mean in your own words? 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:51.010 align:middle line:90% What do you think, Dana? 00:39:51.010 --> 00:39:53.300 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They're doing work that matters, 00:39:53.300 --> 00:39:55.600 align:middle line:84% but they're not doing the main work. 00:39:55.600 --> 00:39:58.330 align:middle line:84% They're doing side tasks that are helping them understand 00:39:58.330 --> 00:40:01.390 align:middle line:84% the main process, but they themselves are not 00:40:01.390 --> 00:40:02.690 align:middle line:90% giving birth to the child. 00:40:02.690 --> 00:40:02.970 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:40:02.970 --> 00:40:03.845 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:40:03.845 --> 00:40:05.600 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: And there's a space there. 00:40:05.600 --> 00:40:08.240 align:middle line:84% A space is held for those people. 00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:10.480 align:middle line:84% It is expected that there are going 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:12.580 align:middle line:84% to be some folks who are hanging around midwives 00:40:12.580 --> 00:40:15.830 align:middle line:84% who are not quite midwives yet, and that's normal. 00:40:15.830 --> 00:40:17.440 align:middle line:90% They're supposed to be there. 00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:19.020 align:middle line:84% It's not a classroom of 20 people 00:40:19.020 --> 00:40:21.520 align:middle line:84% all lined up who are supposed to be doing the same thing all 00:40:21.520 --> 00:40:22.100 align:middle line:90% the time. 00:40:22.100 --> 00:40:23.870 align:middle line:84% There's supposed to be some people in the middle, 00:40:23.870 --> 00:40:25.940 align:middle line:84% and there's supposed to be some people on the outside. 00:40:25.940 --> 00:40:27.607 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I want to pose a question too, 00:40:27.607 --> 00:40:30.100 align:middle line:84% to think of the relationship between what Jean Lave was 00:40:30.100 --> 00:40:32.270 align:middle line:84% talking about, the midwives and the butchers, 00:40:32.270 --> 00:40:34.420 align:middle line:84% and the thinking, what's the difference 00:40:34.420 --> 00:40:37.330 align:middle line:84% between peripheral participants and legitimately 00:40:37.330 --> 00:40:40.840 align:middle line:90% peripheral participants? 00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:43.640 align:middle line:84% Do folks remember what they described about the butchers? 00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:44.265 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:40:44.265 --> 00:40:46.930 align:middle line:84% It was that the butchers, even though they 00:40:46.930 --> 00:40:50.440 align:middle line:84% were doing peripheral work, they were separated in space 00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:54.640 align:middle line:90% from the experts. 00:40:54.640 --> 00:40:58.390 align:middle line:84% So they wouldn't really pick up on things, as opposed 00:40:58.390 --> 00:41:02.170 align:middle line:84% to midwives who would still observe what the legitimate-- 00:41:02.170 --> 00:41:03.195 align:middle line:90% the expert was doing. 00:41:03.195 --> 00:41:03.820 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:41:03.820 --> 00:41:05.550 align:middle line:84% So what does that mean in terms of being 00:41:05.550 --> 00:41:08.580 align:middle line:84% a part of that community, and then shaping the learning 00:41:08.580 --> 00:41:12.000 align:middle line:90% that they're able to acquire? 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.380 align:middle line:84% If I'm a butcher and I'm part of the community, 00:41:14.380 --> 00:41:16.780 align:middle line:84% if I'm standing over here cutting my meat, using my tool, 00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:18.010 align:middle line:90% that's all I get to do. 00:41:18.010 --> 00:41:21.180 align:middle line:84% And then Justin's over there, hanging out with the pig 00:41:21.180 --> 00:41:22.600 align:middle line:90% or whatever it is, right? 00:41:22.600 --> 00:41:24.793 align:middle line:90% What am I losing then? 00:41:24.793 --> 00:41:25.960 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: The social aspect. 00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:27.127 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: The social aspect. 00:41:27.127 --> 00:41:28.347 align:middle line:90% Am I able to observe him? 00:41:28.347 --> 00:41:29.430 align:middle line:90% Can I see what he's doing? 00:41:29.430 --> 00:41:31.420 align:middle line:84% When he leaves, can I pick it up from watching? 00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:32.295 align:middle line:90% Totally miss that. 00:41:32.295 --> 00:41:33.670 align:middle line:84% But then, what about the midwife? 00:41:33.670 --> 00:41:36.180 align:middle line:90% How is that different? 00:41:36.180 --> 00:41:38.167 align:middle line:84% How do they describe the midwife relationship? 00:41:38.167 --> 00:41:39.250 align:middle line:90% Justin, I hope this is OK. 00:41:39.250 --> 00:41:39.820 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, sure. 00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:40.260 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I love this book. 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:40.990 align:middle line:90% So yeah. 00:41:40.990 --> 00:41:42.180 align:middle line:90% Go ahead. 00:41:42.180 --> 00:41:44.640 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So I think one of the main differences 00:41:44.640 --> 00:41:46.260 align:middle line:84% is beyond the fact that it wasn't 00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:47.800 align:middle line:90% supposed to be more efficient. 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:49.980 align:middle line:84% So there was no capitalist aspect to it. 00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:52.210 align:middle line:84% There was a lot of culture embedded in it. 00:41:52.210 --> 00:41:55.800 align:middle line:84% So the daughter of a midwife would become a midwife, 00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:57.300 align:middle line:84% meaning that at five years old, they 00:41:57.300 --> 00:42:00.210 align:middle line:84% would already be present in that situation 00:42:00.210 --> 00:42:03.990 align:middle line:84% and start picking up on what was going on, 00:42:03.990 --> 00:42:08.120 align:middle line:84% and then progressively have a more protagonist 00:42:08.120 --> 00:42:10.020 align:middle line:90% role to that experience. 00:42:10.020 --> 00:42:10.520 align:middle line:90% So. 00:42:10.520 --> 00:42:13.290 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, so although both could be argued as peripheral-- 00:42:13.290 --> 00:42:15.620 align:middle line:84% we're in the same space, we're hanging out-- 00:42:15.620 --> 00:42:18.140 align:middle line:84% who's welcome in the community, and what type of knowledge 00:42:18.140 --> 00:42:20.270 align:middle line:84% are you able to gain from that type 00:42:20.270 --> 00:42:21.480 align:middle line:90% of peripheral participation? 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:22.230 align:middle line:90% It's kind of cool. 00:42:22.230 --> 00:42:23.090 align:middle line:90% It's subtle, right? 00:42:23.090 --> 00:42:23.460 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:24.293 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: All right. 00:42:24.293 --> 00:42:25.220 align:middle line:90% That's all I got. 00:42:25.220 --> 00:42:25.820 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Can I make-- 00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:26.612 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:42:26.612 --> 00:42:27.830 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 00:42:27.830 --> 00:42:31.490 align:middle line:84% The previous paragraph, I had a lot of reflection about it. 00:42:31.490 --> 00:42:36.750 align:middle line:84% And I don't-- that in some aspects-- 00:42:36.750 --> 00:42:38.280 align:middle line:84% I'm not sure how you feel about it, 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.250 align:middle line:84% but I really like the point that he 00:42:40.250 --> 00:42:44.180 align:middle line:84% makes about learning kind of forms 00:42:44.180 --> 00:42:47.515 align:middle line:84% your identity as part of this social group, right? 00:42:47.515 --> 00:42:50.450 align:middle line:84% And I think that really applies to kids, for example. 00:42:50.450 --> 00:42:53.210 align:middle line:84% They come from this peripheral existence 00:42:53.210 --> 00:42:55.940 align:middle line:84% and develop their own identities and become 00:42:55.940 --> 00:42:59.400 align:middle line:84% a committed, functioning part of society. 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.010 align:middle line:84% But then it really made me think, oh, 00:43:02.010 --> 00:43:05.660 align:middle line:84% how do we think about it from an ableist perspective, 00:43:05.660 --> 00:43:09.230 align:middle line:84% where people cannot acquire certain knowledges or certain 00:43:09.230 --> 00:43:12.510 align:middle line:84% abilities, and does that mean they have less of an identity? 00:43:12.510 --> 00:43:15.180 align:middle line:84% I really thought about that for a while. 00:43:15.180 --> 00:43:17.540 align:middle line:84% And at the same time, there is a criticism 00:43:17.540 --> 00:43:20.120 align:middle line:84% in the book about commoditization of knowledge 00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:22.830 align:middle line:84% because before, with midwives, et cetera, 00:43:22.830 --> 00:43:25.580 align:middle line:84% it was this really specific group of people teaching 00:43:25.580 --> 00:43:29.348 align:middle line:84% this very kind of expertise, whereas today, we 00:43:29.348 --> 00:43:30.890 align:middle line:84% have universities and we have schools 00:43:30.890 --> 00:43:34.200 align:middle line:84% where you can get to whatever class and learn things. 00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:36.840 align:middle line:84% But it's not necessarily all bad, right? 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.915 align:middle line:84% Because that would imply that if you're 00:43:38.915 --> 00:43:40.790 align:middle line:84% the daughter of the midwife, you don't really 00:43:40.790 --> 00:43:44.630 align:middle line:84% have a lot of say into becoming or not a midwife. 00:43:44.630 --> 00:43:46.710 align:middle line:84% The way that society was structured back then, 00:43:46.710 --> 00:43:48.590 align:middle line:84% that likely you would kind of become one, 00:43:48.590 --> 00:43:50.130 align:middle line:84% because that's what expected of you. 00:43:50.130 --> 00:43:53.690 align:middle line:84% Whereas when you can choose that, 00:43:53.690 --> 00:43:56.430 align:middle line:84% you have some sort of agency and power, 00:43:56.430 --> 00:43:58.970 align:middle line:84% even if you won't have that exposure 00:43:58.970 --> 00:44:02.090 align:middle line:84% as a peripheral participant since you were a kid. 00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:04.367 align:middle line:84% So it really made me think of many things. 00:44:04.367 --> 00:44:05.200 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Great. 00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:05.877 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:44:05.877 --> 00:44:07.710 align:middle line:84% And none of them have to be resolved either. 00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:10.630 align:middle line:90% 00:44:10.630 --> 00:44:12.820 align:middle line:84% Probably some important things to take away 00:44:12.820 --> 00:44:15.952 align:middle line:84% are like how Jean Lave assigns values 00:44:15.952 --> 00:44:17.660 align:middle line:84% to these different kinds of institutions. 00:44:17.660 --> 00:44:19.430 align:middle line:90% He thinks it's a big problem-- 00:44:19.430 --> 00:44:21.280 align:middle line:84% a big problem with schools and university 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:26.410 align:middle line:84% is ripping knowledge away from these broader social contexts, 00:44:26.410 --> 00:44:28.190 align:middle line:84% that you go and take a physics class, 00:44:28.190 --> 00:44:31.610 align:middle line:84% and in the vast majority of Physics 101 classes, 00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:33.773 align:middle line:84% no one is trying to get you to be a physicist. 00:44:33.773 --> 00:44:35.440 align:middle line:84% They're not trying to get you to develop 00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:36.625 align:middle line:90% the identity of a physicist. 00:44:36.625 --> 00:44:38.500 align:middle line:84% They're just trying to teach you the physics. 00:44:38.500 --> 00:44:40.280 align:middle line:90% And what is lost in that? 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:42.130 align:middle line:84% Of course, what's pretty rad about walking 00:44:42.130 --> 00:44:44.480 align:middle line:84% into a campus full of people who'll be like, yeah, 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.240 align:middle line:84% I'll teach you any of these atomized little things 00:44:46.240 --> 00:44:46.948 align:middle line:90% for you to learn. 00:44:46.948 --> 00:44:49.090 align:middle line:90% That seems kind of cool, too. 00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:51.640 align:middle line:84% "It is worth noting that it would be difficult to find 00:44:51.640 --> 00:44:53.980 align:middle line:84% evidence that teaching is the mode of knowledge 00:44:53.980 --> 00:44:56.710 align:middle line:84% 'transmission' amongst the midwives." 00:44:56.710 --> 00:44:59.730 align:middle line:84% He makes his claim that you wouldn't find direct instruction 00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:01.210 align:middle line:90% amongst the midwives. 00:45:01.210 --> 00:45:03.220 align:middle line:84% I mean, Jordan did the fieldwork and not me. 00:45:03.220 --> 00:45:05.490 align:middle line:84% That seems totally laughable to me. 00:45:05.490 --> 00:45:08.040 align:middle line:84% I've spent time with lots of people of lots of ages, learned 00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:10.830 align:middle line:84% lots of kinds of things, and people are always transmitting 00:45:10.830 --> 00:45:11.950 align:middle line:90% and explaining stuff. 00:45:11.950 --> 00:45:13.860 align:middle line:90% It's always nested in there. 00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:15.908 align:middle line:84% But there's a kind of politics of Jean Lave, 00:45:15.908 --> 00:45:17.950 align:middle line:84% like, we don't even need to explain these things. 00:45:17.950 --> 00:45:19.480 align:middle line:84% We don't even need to teach these people. 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:21.230 align:middle line:84% We can learn it just like babies learn it, 00:45:21.230 --> 00:45:22.710 align:middle line:90% in their natural environment. 00:45:22.710 --> 00:45:24.990 align:middle line:84% Just like you have to surround babies with language 00:45:24.990 --> 00:45:27.420 align:middle line:84% and they'll learn language, you surround young girls 00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:30.430 align:middle line:84% with birth and pregnancy and they learn midwifery. 00:45:30.430 --> 00:45:32.803 align:middle line:90% 00:45:32.803 --> 00:45:35.220 align:middle line:84% "Apprenticeship happens as a way of, and in the course of, 00:45:35.220 --> 00:45:35.920 align:middle line:90% daily life. 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.170 align:middle line:84% It may not be recognized as a teaching effort at all." 00:45:38.170 --> 00:45:39.378 align:middle line:90% Again, this is doubling down. 00:45:39.378 --> 00:45:41.020 align:middle line:90% There's no instruction here. 00:45:41.020 --> 00:45:43.560 align:middle line:84% If there's instruction, the people are lying to you, 00:45:43.560 --> 00:45:45.300 align:middle line:90% and you should despise them. 00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:47.850 align:middle line:84% "A Maya girl who eventually became a midwife, most likely 00:45:47.850 --> 00:45:49.930 align:middle line:84% has a mother or a grandmother as a midwife. 00:45:49.930 --> 00:45:52.110 align:middle line:84% Girls in such families, without being identified 00:45:52.110 --> 00:45:54.570 align:middle line:84% as apprentice midwives, absorb the essence 00:45:54.570 --> 00:45:56.820 align:middle line:84% of midwifery practice as well as specific knowledge 00:45:56.820 --> 00:45:59.680 align:middle line:84% about many procedures, simply in the process of growing up. 00:45:59.680 --> 00:46:01.180 align:middle line:84% They know what the life of a midwife 00:46:01.180 --> 00:46:03.430 align:middle line:84% is like, what kinds of stories the women and men who 00:46:03.430 --> 00:46:06.100 align:middle line:84% come to consult her tell, what kind of herbs and other remedies 00:46:06.100 --> 00:46:07.330 align:middle line:90% might be needed to collected. 00:46:07.330 --> 00:46:10.270 align:middle line:84% As young children, they might be sitting quietly in their corner 00:46:10.270 --> 00:46:12.918 align:middle line:84% as their mother administers a prenatal massage. 00:46:12.918 --> 00:46:14.710 align:middle line:84% They would hear stories of difficult cases, 00:46:14.710 --> 00:46:16.252 align:middle line:84% of miraculous outcomes, and the like. 00:46:16.252 --> 00:46:19.010 align:middle line:84% As they grow older, they may be passing messages, 00:46:19.010 --> 00:46:21.140 align:middle line:84% running errands, getting needed supplies. 00:46:21.140 --> 00:46:23.440 align:middle line:84% A young girl might be present as her mother stops 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:25.600 align:middle line:84% for a postpartum visit after the daily shopping 00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:26.630 align:middle line:90% trip to the market. 00:46:26.630 --> 00:46:28.520 align:middle line:84% Eventually, after she has a child herself, 00:46:28.520 --> 00:46:29.937 align:middle line:84% she might come along to her birth, 00:46:29.937 --> 00:46:32.140 align:middle line:84% perhaps because her ailing grandmother needs someone 00:46:32.140 --> 00:46:33.520 align:middle line:84% to walk with, and thus finds herself 00:46:33.520 --> 00:46:35.800 align:middle line:84% doing for the woman in labor what other women had done 00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:37.130 align:middle line:90% for her when she gave birth. 00:46:37.130 --> 00:46:39.980 align:middle line:84% That is, she may take a turn at supporting the laboring woman. 00:46:39.980 --> 00:46:42.850 align:middle line:84% Eventually, she may even administer prenatal massages 00:46:42.850 --> 00:46:44.040 align:middle line:90% to the selected clients. 00:46:44.040 --> 00:46:45.790 align:middle line:84% At some point, she may decide she actually 00:46:45.790 --> 00:46:47.040 align:middle line:90% wants to do this kind of work. 00:46:47.040 --> 00:46:49.180 align:middle line:84% She then pays more attention, but only rarely 00:46:49.180 --> 00:46:50.420 align:middle line:90% does she ask questions. 00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:52.130 align:middle line:84% Her mentor sees their association, 00:46:52.130 --> 00:46:54.590 align:middle line:84% primarily one that is of some use to her. 00:46:54.590 --> 00:46:56.270 align:middle line:84% 'Rosa already knows how to do a massage, 00:46:56.270 --> 00:46:58.400 align:middle line:84% so I can send her if I'm too busy.'" 00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:00.260 align:middle line:84% That is just a beautiful description 00:47:00.260 --> 00:47:02.743 align:middle line:84% of legitimate peripheral participation 00:47:02.743 --> 00:47:04.410 align:middle line:84% moving from the periphery to the center. 00:47:04.410 --> 00:47:06.120 align:middle line:84% You just watch this thing for a while. 00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:08.340 align:middle line:84% And then your mom's hands are a little sore, 00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:10.003 align:middle line:84% and so you do the massage this time. 00:47:10.003 --> 00:47:11.420 align:middle line:84% And you know how to do the massage 00:47:11.420 --> 00:47:12.780 align:middle line:90% because it happened to you. 00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:14.280 align:middle line:90% You've seen it a zillion times. 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.640 align:middle line:84% Are any of you part of clubs or groups 00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:19.270 align:middle line:84% at MIT that have learning that feels like this? 00:47:19.270 --> 00:47:23.450 align:middle line:90% 00:47:23.450 --> 00:47:25.700 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I guess, technically, a lot of theater clubs 00:47:25.700 --> 00:47:26.388 align:middle line:90% are similar. 00:47:26.388 --> 00:47:27.180 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:47:27.180 --> 00:47:28.310 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: People are just doing this. 00:47:28.310 --> 00:47:29.670 align:middle line:84% How do you become a stage manager? 00:47:29.670 --> 00:47:31.700 align:middle line:84% I don't know, look at what the stage manager does. 00:47:31.700 --> 00:47:32.510 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: And the other thing 00:47:32.510 --> 00:47:34.370 align:middle line:84% is like, you start as a stagehand. 00:47:34.370 --> 00:47:35.240 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:47:35.240 --> 00:47:36.480 align:middle line:90% You watch some theater. 00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.610 align:middle line:90% Yeah, just stand there. 00:47:37.610 --> 00:47:40.910 align:middle line:84% And between the second and third act, hand 00:47:40.910 --> 00:47:42.920 align:middle line:90% this prop to that person. 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.420 align:middle line:84% And you're probably never going to take stage manager class. 00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:46.920 align:middle line:84% You're just going to hand that prop once, 00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:48.420 align:middle line:90% and then you're the prop master. 00:47:48.420 --> 00:47:49.700 align:middle line:84% And then the stage manager gets sick, 00:47:49.700 --> 00:47:51.780 align:middle line:84% and you do it for the night, and then you're the stage manager. 00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:53.905 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think theater has a ton of stuff like this. 00:47:53.905 --> 00:47:54.940 align:middle line:90% That's a great example. 00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:55.990 align:middle line:84% What were you going to say, Omar? 00:47:55.990 --> 00:47:57.490 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In The Tech and Technique, 00:47:57.490 --> 00:47:59.093 align:middle line:90% we have what's called shadowing. 00:47:59.093 --> 00:48:00.760 align:middle line:84% So when we go out for photo assignments, 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:02.635 align:middle line:84% where there's a studio photography assignment 00:48:02.635 --> 00:48:04.780 align:middle line:84% or something out in the field, we 00:48:04.780 --> 00:48:06.525 align:middle line:84% can always have someone shadowing us, 00:48:06.525 --> 00:48:08.900 align:middle line:84% and they can also be taking photos with their own camera. 00:48:08.900 --> 00:48:11.180 align:middle line:84% And sometimes, we will use their work as well. 00:48:11.180 --> 00:48:13.390 align:middle line:84% So they can also do legitimate periphery work. 00:48:13.390 --> 00:48:14.390 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: I love it. 00:48:14.390 --> 00:48:17.480 align:middle line:84% And you have intentionally held space for that. 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:20.740 align:middle line:84% You've kind of designed like, oh, yeah, come along, hang out 00:48:20.740 --> 00:48:21.295 align:middle line:90% with us. 00:48:21.295 --> 00:48:23.170 align:middle line:84% And you probably have parties and other kinds 00:48:23.170 --> 00:48:24.712 align:middle line:84% of things like that where it's like-- 00:48:24.712 --> 00:48:27.170 align:middle line:84% where some of it you're just goofing around, but some of it 00:48:27.170 --> 00:48:29.650 align:middle line:84% you're like, oh, the story that we got, da, da, da, da, da. 00:48:29.650 --> 00:48:32.860 align:middle line:84% Them telling the stories of difficult cases and miraculous 00:48:32.860 --> 00:48:33.500 align:middle line:90% outcomes. 00:48:33.500 --> 00:48:36.460 align:middle line:84% I'm sure the tech has other similar kinds of difficult cases 00:48:36.460 --> 00:48:37.790 align:middle line:90% and miraculous outcomes. 00:48:37.790 --> 00:48:39.760 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was going to say, on sports teams, 00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:42.730 align:middle line:84% when people become captains, not often is the coach sitting them 00:48:42.730 --> 00:48:45.410 align:middle line:84% down and being like, this is how you be a captain, 00:48:45.410 --> 00:48:46.790 align:middle line:90% this is how you lead people. 00:48:46.790 --> 00:48:48.640 align:middle line:84% It's more like they just naturally 00:48:48.640 --> 00:48:52.300 align:middle line:84% have this personality of doing that, of maybe they grew up 00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:55.560 align:middle line:84% and their mom was a girlboss, or they just 00:48:55.560 --> 00:48:57.190 align:middle line:90% grew up seeing stuff like that. 00:48:57.190 --> 00:49:00.180 align:middle line:84% So then you have that natural progression 00:49:00.180 --> 00:49:01.798 align:middle line:90% into just learning by doing. 00:49:01.798 --> 00:49:02.590 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:49:02.590 --> 00:49:03.210 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:49:03.210 --> 00:49:04.710 align:middle line:84% What were you going to say, Sabrina? 00:49:04.710 --> 00:49:06.780 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: OK, this is kind of a dumb example-- 00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:07.710 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: I like them. 00:49:07.710 --> 00:49:09.127 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'm really bad at Smash, 00:49:09.127 --> 00:49:11.680 align:middle line:84% so I always get placed with the best Smash player. 00:49:11.680 --> 00:49:14.250 align:middle line:84% And then we're on a team against two other people who 00:49:14.250 --> 00:49:15.630 align:middle line:90% are also really good. 00:49:15.630 --> 00:49:17.208 align:middle line:84% But this person is so good that-- 00:49:17.208 --> 00:49:18.250 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: They carry. 00:49:18.250 --> 00:49:19.125 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: They carry. 00:49:19.125 --> 00:49:22.230 align:middle line:84% But I'm kind of learning along with them. 00:49:22.230 --> 00:49:26.070 align:middle line:84% And I kind of hold off onto the side, where I just kind of try 00:49:26.070 --> 00:49:30.000 align:middle line:84% to hold lives while they destroy the other people. 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.720 align:middle line:84% And I think that's kind of periphery. 00:49:31.720 --> 00:49:33.428 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:49:33.428 --> 00:49:35.740 align:middle line:84% I mean, in that particular community, 00:49:35.740 --> 00:49:38.490 align:middle line:84% it's a space of legitimate peripheral participation, which 00:49:38.490 --> 00:49:41.910 align:middle line:84% somewhat exists because of this fairness, balancing 00:49:41.910 --> 00:49:42.970 align:middle line:90% kinds of things. 00:49:42.970 --> 00:49:45.600 align:middle line:84% And so every learning environment, 00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:48.450 align:middle line:84% the substance of Super Smash Brothers 00:49:48.450 --> 00:49:52.110 align:middle line:84% determines where the legitimate-- and it determines 00:49:52.110 --> 00:49:53.580 align:middle line:84% spaces for peripheral participation 00:49:53.580 --> 00:49:55.920 align:middle line:84% that's different than journalism, different 00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:56.490 align:middle line:90% than sports. 00:49:56.490 --> 00:49:57.240 align:middle line:90% They're different. 00:49:57.240 --> 00:49:59.250 align:middle line:84% But this theory is giving us commonality, 00:49:59.250 --> 00:50:00.930 align:middle line:84% where we can talk about really different things that 00:50:00.930 --> 00:50:02.350 align:middle line:84% might arise in different circumstances. 00:50:02.350 --> 00:50:04.630 align:middle line:84% But I think that's actually kind of the same thing. 00:50:04.630 --> 00:50:09.000 align:middle line:84% And there's kind of spaces that I'm finding for learning. 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.640 align:middle line:84% "In short, when official channels offer only 00:50:11.640 --> 00:50:14.910 align:middle line:84% a possibility to participate in institutionally mandated forms 00:50:14.910 --> 00:50:17.315 align:middle line:84% of commoditized activity, genuine participation, 00:50:17.315 --> 00:50:18.690 align:middle line:84% membership, and legitimate access 00:50:18.690 --> 00:50:21.360 align:middle line:84% to ongoing practice-- of a practice considered worthy 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:22.540 align:middle line:90% of the name-- are rare. 00:50:22.540 --> 00:50:25.025 align:middle line:84% Practice is not to be found in schools and workplaces. 00:50:25.025 --> 00:50:27.150 align:middle line:84% At the same time, schools and school-like workplace 00:50:27.150 --> 00:50:29.720 align:middle line:84% educational enterprises accord knowledge skill a reified 00:50:29.720 --> 00:50:31.470 align:middle line:84% existence, turning it into something to be 00:50:31.470 --> 00:50:35.050 align:middle line:84% 'acquired' and its transmission into an institutional motive. 00:50:35.050 --> 00:50:37.770 align:middle line:84% This process generates pressures towards the trivializing 00:50:37.770 --> 00:50:39.670 align:middle line:84% decomposing of forms or activity. 00:50:39.670 --> 00:50:42.120 align:middle line:84% The result is a widespread generation of negative 00:50:42.120 --> 00:50:45.750 align:middle line:84% identities, of misrecognized or institutionally disapproved 00:50:45.750 --> 00:50:48.540 align:middle line:84% interstitial communities of practice." 00:50:48.540 --> 00:50:50.660 align:middle line:84% Some of the things that might feel most academic 00:50:50.660 --> 00:50:54.950 align:middle line:84% might feel least identity-oriented to you 00:50:54.950 --> 00:50:58.292 align:middle line:84% because there's not-- think about, what degrees here would 00:50:58.292 --> 00:50:59.750 align:middle line:84% be like, I'm not sure there's a way 00:50:59.750 --> 00:51:02.210 align:middle line:84% to be a legitimate peripheral participant there? 00:51:02.210 --> 00:51:04.500 align:middle line:84% There's a way to learn the stuff. 00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:07.220 align:middle line:84% There's a way to be taught the discrete parts of this course 00:51:07.220 --> 00:51:08.160 align:middle line:90% or subject or major. 00:51:08.160 --> 00:51:11.820 align:middle line:84% But I'm not learning how to be a part of this community. 00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:14.900 align:middle line:90% 00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:17.180 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:51:17.180 --> 00:51:21.110 align:middle line:84% Here's three things that I'll have you do together 00:51:21.110 --> 00:51:24.955 align:middle line:84% for 5 or 10 minutes, which might involve some drawing. 00:51:24.955 --> 00:51:27.560 align:middle line:90% 00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:31.100 align:middle line:84% So grab some paper or some board space. 00:51:31.100 --> 00:51:34.160 align:middle line:84% See if you can draw the equivalent of human cognitive 00:51:34.160 --> 00:51:35.960 align:middle line:90% architecture. 00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:37.460 align:middle line:90% See if you can draw-- 00:51:37.460 --> 00:51:42.338 align:middle line:84% just like you drew these diagrams for cognitive load 00:51:42.338 --> 00:51:43.880 align:middle line:84% theory, what is the diagram you would 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:49.250 align:middle line:90% draw for situated learning? 00:51:49.250 --> 00:51:52.850 align:middle line:84% Based on that cognitive architecture, 00:51:52.850 --> 00:51:54.750 align:middle line:84% what is the pedagogy that follows? 00:51:54.750 --> 00:51:58.590 align:middle line:84% So based on the key fundamental principles of situated learning, 00:51:58.590 --> 00:52:00.200 align:middle line:84% cognitive load theory said, here's 00:52:00.200 --> 00:52:01.920 align:middle line:84% a model of human cognitive architecture. 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:03.950 align:middle line:84% Here are a series of clearly defined effects. 00:52:03.950 --> 00:52:05.450 align:middle line:84% The situated learning people are not 00:52:05.450 --> 00:52:08.880 align:middle line:84% as good as enumerating in bullet points all of their pieces, 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:10.250 align:middle line:90% but it's all in there. 00:52:10.250 --> 00:52:13.400 align:middle line:84% What are some of the instructional practices 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:14.787 align:middle line:90% that follow from this model? 00:52:14.787 --> 00:52:16.370 align:middle line:84% Think about those two things, and then 00:52:16.370 --> 00:52:20.780 align:middle line:84% also see if you can recreate some of your Venn diagrams of, 00:52:20.780 --> 00:52:22.460 align:middle line:84% what are the categories of things that 00:52:22.460 --> 00:52:25.800 align:middle line:84% seem separate from cognitive learning and situated learning, 00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.580 align:middle line:84% and what are the things that they seem to be quite similar on 00:52:28.580 --> 00:52:29.970 align:middle line:90% or quite together on? 00:52:29.970 --> 00:52:33.210 align:middle line:84% Take 10 minutes to, again, grab one person or two other people, 00:52:33.210 --> 00:52:34.830 align:middle line:84% do some drawing, do some composing. 00:52:34.830 --> 00:52:36.380 align:middle line:84% Feel free to pull up your notes from your learning 00:52:36.380 --> 00:52:38.782 align:middle line:84% journal, where you should have done some of these things. 00:52:38.782 --> 00:52:40.240 align:middle line:84% And if any of these questions-- you 00:52:40.240 --> 00:52:42.600 align:middle line:84% don't have to spend equal time on all three questions. 00:52:42.600 --> 00:52:43.770 align:middle line:84% If you dive in on one, that's fine. 00:52:43.770 --> 00:52:46.310 align:middle line:84% But those three should keep you busy for 8 minutes or something 00:52:46.310 --> 00:52:46.810 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:52:46.810 --> 00:52:47.400 align:middle line:90% Make sense? 00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:47.900 align:middle line:90% Ready? 00:52:47.900 --> 00:52:50.420 align:middle line:90% Go. 00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:53.030 align:middle line:84% So one thing I love about almost all of these drawings 00:52:53.030 --> 00:52:55.460 align:middle line:84% is it's kind of impossible to draw these models 00:52:55.460 --> 00:52:58.940 align:middle line:84% without drawing other people, that when you all developed 00:52:58.940 --> 00:53:01.040 align:middle line:84% a kind of human cognitive architecture 00:53:01.040 --> 00:53:04.490 align:middle line:84% in cognitive load theory, you're drawing one brain. 00:53:04.490 --> 00:53:06.648 align:middle line:84% And actually, most of your drawings, 00:53:06.648 --> 00:53:08.940 align:middle line:84% you didn't even really represent the rest of the world. 00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:10.430 align:middle line:84% But in this model, it's impossible 00:53:10.430 --> 00:53:12.055 align:middle line:84% not to represent the rest of the world, 00:53:12.055 --> 00:53:15.170 align:middle line:84% and in particular, other people, because learning fundamentally 00:53:15.170 --> 00:53:17.150 align:middle line:84% is social, and your identity is fundamentally 00:53:17.150 --> 00:53:20.490 align:middle line:84% reflective of your connections with other people. 00:53:20.490 --> 00:53:23.090 align:middle line:90% So these are good. 00:53:23.090 --> 00:53:25.950 align:middle line:84% You read a little piece of "Give P's a Chance." 00:53:25.950 --> 00:53:29.900 align:middle line:84% So four P's from Mitch Resnick about Projects, Passion, Play, 00:53:29.900 --> 00:53:30.630 align:middle line:90% and Peers. 00:53:30.630 --> 00:53:33.830 align:middle line:84% Hopefully you can now start mapping some of these ideas 00:53:33.830 --> 00:53:35.630 align:middle line:90% to what we talked about-- 00:53:35.630 --> 00:53:38.750 align:middle line:84% projects, open-ended explorations, 00:53:38.750 --> 00:53:42.240 align:middle line:84% making music, making funny shape, 00:53:42.240 --> 00:53:44.840 align:middle line:84% having a robot draw funny shapes somewhere. 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:47.770 align:middle line:84% Those are spaces for open-ended exploration, 00:53:47.770 --> 00:53:49.830 align:middle line:84% for doing multiple kinds of things. 00:53:49.830 --> 00:53:53.260 align:middle line:84% Projects have more space for peripheral participation, 00:53:53.260 --> 00:53:55.860 align:middle line:84% like multiple people can be making music even if someone's 00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:59.250 align:middle line:84% a little bit better at making music than the other person, 00:53:59.250 --> 00:54:06.180 align:middle line:84% that learning environments here are driven by interests. 00:54:06.180 --> 00:54:09.240 align:middle line:84% There's very little reference in cognitive load theory 00:54:09.240 --> 00:54:11.730 align:middle line:84% to things like, well, yeah, sometimes the kids don't 00:54:11.730 --> 00:54:14.430 align:middle line:84% like learning math, so they just don't, although that's 00:54:14.430 --> 00:54:15.870 align:middle line:90% very real. 00:54:15.870 --> 00:54:17.845 align:middle line:90% Some of the young-- 00:54:17.845 --> 00:54:20.220 align:middle line:84% some of the daughters of midwives want to become midwives 00:54:20.220 --> 00:54:21.780 align:middle line:90% and some didn't. 00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:24.700 align:middle line:84% And for the ones who did want to become midwives, 00:54:24.700 --> 00:54:25.870 align:middle line:90% they followed that interest. 00:54:25.870 --> 00:54:28.212 align:middle line:84% And those who didn't went and did other things. 00:54:28.212 --> 00:54:29.920 align:middle line:84% And in these kinds of models of learning, 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.805 align:middle line:84% that's actually OK and really important. 00:54:31.805 --> 00:54:34.180 align:middle line:84% We're not supposed to make everyone better at everything. 00:54:34.180 --> 00:54:36.030 align:middle line:84% We're supposed to let people follow their interests 00:54:36.030 --> 00:54:38.610 align:middle line:84% and get good at the things that they want to get good at, 00:54:38.610 --> 00:54:42.750 align:middle line:84% that in environments in which there is a kind of lightness 00:54:42.750 --> 00:54:46.940 align:middle line:84% to the environment, lightness and play create 00:54:46.940 --> 00:54:50.300 align:middle line:84% space for multiple forms of participation. 00:54:50.300 --> 00:54:56.340 align:middle line:84% Things don't have to be optimized to get to the fastest, 00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:57.780 align:middle line:90% best trajectory for all people. 00:54:57.780 --> 00:55:01.190 align:middle line:84% There can be room to play and mess around 00:55:01.190 --> 00:55:02.370 align:middle line:90% and try other things. 00:55:02.370 --> 00:55:04.010 align:middle line:84% And then doing it with other people 00:55:04.010 --> 00:55:07.100 align:middle line:84% is essential, as you can see in all of these kinds of things. 00:55:07.100 --> 00:55:10.830 align:middle line:84% And part of what, in some ways, the real genius-- 00:55:10.830 --> 00:55:11.970 align:middle line:90% Jean Lave was a woman. 00:55:11.970 --> 00:55:13.920 align:middle line:84% I misrepresented her as a man before, 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:15.650 align:middle line:90% and Erin helpfully corrected me. 00:55:15.650 --> 00:55:21.420 align:middle line:84% Etienne Wenger, her partner, is a co-writer, is a guy. 00:55:21.420 --> 00:55:24.330 align:middle line:84% It's not just people hanging out with each other. 00:55:24.330 --> 00:55:27.860 align:middle line:84% We can describe repeated patterns 00:55:27.860 --> 00:55:32.150 align:middle line:84% we see of legitimate peripheral participation of old timers 00:55:32.150 --> 00:55:34.500 align:middle line:90% and newcomers. 00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:36.530 align:middle line:84% There's lots in Lave's work that you probably 00:55:36.530 --> 00:55:39.440 align:middle line:84% read that was about trying to find new language to get away 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:42.390 align:middle line:84% from the experts and novices, because that's part of it, 00:55:42.390 --> 00:55:43.760 align:middle line:90% but it's not just that. 00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:45.260 align:middle line:84% It's our time in a community, it's 00:55:45.260 --> 00:55:47.400 align:middle line:84% our space in the community, those kinds of things. 00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.820 align:middle line:84% So just like in cognitive load theory you could say, 00:55:50.820 --> 00:55:52.467 align:middle line:84% here's a human cognitive architecture, 00:55:52.467 --> 00:55:54.050 align:middle line:84% here's a set of pedagogical principles 00:55:54.050 --> 00:55:56.870 align:middle line:84% that follow from that, Jean Lave can describe 00:55:56.870 --> 00:55:58.140 align:middle line:90% these social interactions. 00:55:58.140 --> 00:56:03.418 align:middle line:84% You can abstract from them some models of human cognitive 00:56:03.418 --> 00:56:04.710 align:middle line:90% architecture and say, well, OK. 00:56:04.710 --> 00:56:07.430 align:middle line:84% From those models, there are some instructional principles 00:56:07.430 --> 00:56:08.750 align:middle line:90% that follow. 00:56:08.750 --> 00:56:10.898 align:middle line:84% If I were to draw one of these, I think a thing 00:56:10.898 --> 00:56:12.440 align:middle line:84% that I would pay a bunch of attention 00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:17.600 align:middle line:84% to is that the thing in both learning models, 00:56:17.600 --> 00:56:19.430 align:middle line:90% you learn what you attend to. 00:56:19.430 --> 00:56:21.680 align:middle line:90% Seeing is really important. 00:56:21.680 --> 00:56:25.880 align:middle line:84% A key insight of situated learning 00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:29.460 align:middle line:84% is that we attend to things that interest us and motivate us 00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:32.240 align:middle line:84% and where we find our identity and care about. 00:56:32.240 --> 00:56:35.037 align:middle line:84% If looking at something is essential to get people 00:56:35.037 --> 00:56:37.370 align:middle line:84% to learn about it, then we ought to think very carefully 00:56:37.370 --> 00:56:41.300 align:middle line:84% about what motivates us to look at a thing. 00:56:41.300 --> 00:56:50.140 align:middle line:84% T-ball, for me, is a canonical example of a kind of activity 00:56:50.140 --> 00:56:53.350 align:middle line:84% which would be almost impossible to teach primarily 00:56:53.350 --> 00:56:55.510 align:middle line:90% through cognitive load theory. 00:56:55.510 --> 00:56:57.918 align:middle line:84% It's really hard to imagine teaching kids baseball 00:56:57.918 --> 00:56:59.960 align:middle line:84% where you're like, all right, sit down, everyone. 00:56:59.960 --> 00:57:03.080 align:middle line:84% We're all going to watch a worked example of how 00:57:03.080 --> 00:57:05.208 align:middle line:90% you hit a ball. 00:57:05.208 --> 00:57:07.000 align:middle line:84% We have to learn the rule book of baseball. 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:09.400 align:middle line:84% The way we teach kids baseball is we're 00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:11.530 align:middle line:84% like, what is the fastest way we can 00:57:11.530 --> 00:57:14.140 align:middle line:84% get young people, with limited coordination and no knowledge 00:57:14.140 --> 00:57:16.610 align:middle line:84% of the rules, to play something like baseball? 00:57:16.610 --> 00:57:19.040 align:middle line:84% How do we get them baseballing as soon as we possibly can? 00:57:19.040 --> 00:57:21.100 align:middle line:84% And some genius was like, don't do the pitching. 00:57:21.100 --> 00:57:22.100 align:middle line:90% Get rid of the pitching. 00:57:22.100 --> 00:57:25.420 align:middle line:84% Just put the ball on the stick, and they can just hit the ball. 00:57:25.420 --> 00:57:29.050 align:middle line:84% It has some kind of cognitive, some relationship 00:57:29.050 --> 00:57:33.060 align:middle line:84% to part-whole practice, to devolving scaffolding and things 00:57:33.060 --> 00:57:33.560 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:57:33.560 --> 00:57:36.010 align:middle line:84% There's a researcher at Harvard who 00:57:36.010 --> 00:57:38.693 align:middle line:84% wrote a book called Making Learning Whole, where he said 00:57:38.693 --> 00:57:40.360 align:middle line:84% that one of the things that we can often 00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.300 align:middle line:84% do in curriculum that we underestimate 00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:46.665 align:middle line:84% is get people playing the whole game as early as possible. 00:57:46.665 --> 00:57:47.790 align:middle line:90% We'll talk about this more. 00:57:47.790 --> 00:57:49.470 align:middle line:84% But think about, what subjects have 00:57:49.470 --> 00:57:52.590 align:middle line:84% you taken at MIT that let you start playing the whole game as 00:57:52.590 --> 00:57:53.680 align:middle line:90% soon as possible? 00:57:53.680 --> 00:57:57.930 align:middle line:84% And what require you to build up lots of elementary pieces 00:57:57.930 --> 00:58:01.830 align:middle line:84% before you can do the thing that whole discipline does? 00:58:01.830 --> 00:58:04.750 align:middle line:84% But baseball instruction in the United States, 00:58:04.750 --> 00:58:07.800 align:middle line:84% very difficult to imagine in a cognitive load theory 00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.830 align:middle line:84% framework, very pleasant for millions 00:58:10.830 --> 00:58:13.080 align:middle line:84% of young people in a more experiential, 00:58:13.080 --> 00:58:14.390 align:middle line:90% situated kind of way. 00:58:14.390 --> 00:58:14.890 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:58:14.890 --> 00:58:17.440 align:middle line:84% You did this a little bit, which is good. 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:19.260 align:middle line:84% Here is one thing that I would like 00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:23.070 align:middle line:84% to have in the center of your Venn diagrams of things 00:58:23.070 --> 00:58:24.570 align:middle line:90% that are similar. 00:58:24.570 --> 00:58:26.700 align:middle line:84% This is a misconception that my students 00:58:26.700 --> 00:58:28.658 align:middle line:84% have had over the years that I want to correct. 00:58:28.658 --> 00:58:31.620 align:middle line:90% 00:58:31.620 --> 00:58:34.710 align:middle line:84% The cognitive load theorists and the situated learning people 00:58:34.710 --> 00:58:37.330 align:middle line:84% agree on what expertise looks like. 00:58:37.330 --> 00:58:39.675 align:middle line:84% They agree on what high-quality practice looks like. 00:58:39.675 --> 00:58:42.300 align:middle line:84% I don't think you'd find these people-- they would not disagree 00:58:42.300 --> 00:58:44.890 align:middle line:84% about what a great baseball player, or a great carpenter, 00:58:44.890 --> 00:58:47.790 align:middle line:84% or a great surgeon, or a great lawyer looks like. 00:58:47.790 --> 00:58:50.160 align:middle line:84% They would believe that-- sometimes people 00:58:50.160 --> 00:58:52.380 align:middle line:84% think that the cognitive load theorists want 00:58:52.380 --> 00:58:57.300 align:middle line:84% people who are experts to be really rigid and disciplined 00:58:57.300 --> 00:58:59.920 align:middle line:84% and pattern repeating, and that is not the case. 00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:01.870 align:middle line:84% That is not what they want as the endpoint. 00:59:01.870 --> 00:59:06.480 align:middle line:84% They want your cancer surgeon to be dynamic and flexible when 00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:09.420 align:middle line:84% they cut open your belly and find cancerous tumors 00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:10.890 align:middle line:84% and are pulling them out of there. 00:59:10.890 --> 00:59:13.300 align:middle line:84% They want poets to be creative and imaginative. 00:59:13.300 --> 00:59:16.800 align:middle line:84% They just think that the way that you develop the knowledge 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:20.880 align:middle line:84% base that lets you be creative and flexible and dynamic and 00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:23.895 align:middle line:84% strategic is through really disciplined instruction. 00:59:23.895 --> 00:59:26.520 align:middle line:84% Because if you don't go through a process of really disciplined 00:59:26.520 --> 00:59:29.040 align:middle line:84% instruction, it's hard to get good at things 00:59:29.040 --> 00:59:30.960 align:middle line:84% because no one has showed you how 00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:34.140 align:middle line:84% to do fundamental pieces in clear ways. 00:59:34.140 --> 00:59:37.710 align:middle line:84% I have a couple colleagues, Jal Mehta and Sarah Fine-- 00:59:37.710 --> 00:59:40.230 align:middle line:84% Jal's still at Harvard, Sarah was there for a while 00:59:40.230 --> 00:59:42.620 align:middle line:84% and was at High Tech High Graduate School of Education 00:59:42.620 --> 00:59:44.387 align:middle line:84% for a while-- who studied schools a lot. 00:59:44.387 --> 00:59:46.970 align:middle line:84% Studied very different schools with very different pedagogical 00:59:46.970 --> 00:59:50.580 align:middle line:84% philosophies and found that, across all of them, 00:59:50.580 --> 00:59:53.630 align:middle line:84% they tended to believe that expertise consisted 00:59:53.630 --> 00:59:57.140 align:middle line:84% of mastery, identity, and creativity, that you knew 00:59:57.140 --> 01:00:00.440 align:middle line:84% a bunch of stuff in the domain, that you developed 01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:02.930 align:middle line:84% an identity in that domain, and that you were able to do 01:00:02.930 --> 01:00:05.300 align:middle line:90% flexible, creative work. 01:00:05.300 --> 01:00:07.380 align:middle line:84% You know a bunch of physics equations 01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:08.400 align:middle line:90% and when to apply them. 01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:10.890 align:middle line:84% You feel like you're kind of a physicist and a scientist. 01:00:10.890 --> 01:00:13.710 align:middle line:84% And when you need to do something novel, 01:00:13.710 --> 01:00:17.158 align:middle line:84% like build a bridge or launch a rocket or something like that, 01:00:17.158 --> 01:00:18.950 align:middle line:84% you're not just following steps, but you're 01:00:18.950 --> 01:00:22.620 align:middle line:84% doing things that are creative and expressive. 01:00:22.620 --> 01:00:25.520 align:middle line:90% One way that I would-- 01:00:25.520 --> 01:00:27.230 align:middle line:84% I think the cognitive load theorists 01:00:27.230 --> 01:00:28.940 align:middle line:84% and situated learning people tend 01:00:28.940 --> 01:00:32.870 align:middle line:84% to imagine different pathways at getting at these goals. 01:00:32.870 --> 01:00:35.330 align:middle line:84% So the cognitive load theorists tend 01:00:35.330 --> 01:00:38.120 align:middle line:84% to think that mastery is like the starting point. 01:00:38.120 --> 01:00:44.320 align:middle line:84% If you know the stuff, if you can do the pieces, then, A, 01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:47.660 align:middle line:84% we often most enjoy things that we're good at. 01:00:47.660 --> 01:00:50.090 align:middle line:90% So get you good at doing things. 01:00:50.090 --> 01:00:52.403 align:middle line:84% There's lots of debates in the country 01:00:52.403 --> 01:00:54.070 align:middle line:84% right now-- we'll talk about them some-- 01:00:54.070 --> 01:00:55.995 align:middle line:90% about teaching kids to read. 01:00:55.995 --> 01:00:57.370 align:middle line:84% And there are some folks who say, 01:00:57.370 --> 01:00:59.765 align:middle line:84% we just have to let kids explore books and find 01:00:59.765 --> 01:01:00.890 align:middle line:90% what they're interested in. 01:01:00.890 --> 01:01:01.480 align:middle line:84% And there are other folks who are 01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:03.147 align:middle line:84% like, you know what's fun about reading, 01:01:03.147 --> 01:01:04.910 align:middle line:90% is actually being able to read. 01:01:04.910 --> 01:01:07.810 align:middle line:84% So teach them a bunch of phonics and explain to them 01:01:07.810 --> 01:01:09.560 align:middle line:84% the basics of how to construct words, 01:01:09.560 --> 01:01:11.630 align:middle line:84% and that's what makes reading enjoyable. 01:01:11.630 --> 01:01:13.960 align:middle line:84% That's what makes people feel like readers. 01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:16.000 align:middle line:84% Not when they have a beautiful library 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:17.900 align:middle line:84% of things to choose from, whatever they want, 01:01:17.900 --> 01:01:20.275 align:middle line:84% but when they can actually make sense of what's in there. 01:01:20.275 --> 01:01:21.580 align:middle line:90% There's some sense in that. 01:01:21.580 --> 01:01:23.720 align:middle line:84% You develop some kind of identity, 01:01:23.720 --> 01:01:25.600 align:middle line:84% and then you have the opportunity 01:01:25.600 --> 01:01:28.070 align:middle line:84% to do creative practice that builds on that mastery. 01:01:28.070 --> 01:01:31.720 align:middle line:84% There are other people who say, start 01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:33.440 align:middle line:90% with things like creativity. 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:37.060 align:middle line:84% Start by getting people to play around in the space 01:01:37.060 --> 01:01:41.440 align:middle line:84% as much as possible so that they're motivated, so that they 01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:44.450 align:middle line:90% say, man, I am a this. 01:01:44.450 --> 01:01:45.970 align:middle line:90% I'm a baseball player. 01:01:45.970 --> 01:01:49.520 align:middle line:84% I swung on a ball on a stick a few times. 01:01:49.520 --> 01:01:51.730 align:middle line:90% But now I am a baseball player. 01:01:51.730 --> 01:01:55.060 align:middle line:84% And because I'm a baseball player in my heart, 01:01:55.060 --> 01:01:57.340 align:middle line:84% I'll memorize all the statistics and learn the rules 01:01:57.340 --> 01:01:58.990 align:middle line:84% and go to practice, and eventually 01:01:58.990 --> 01:02:01.960 align:middle line:84% do really boring learning kinds of things, 01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:05.120 align:middle line:84% the mastery-oriented discipline kinds of things, 01:02:05.120 --> 01:02:08.890 align:middle line:84% but because I know how fun it is to play around in this space. 01:02:08.890 --> 01:02:12.910 align:middle line:84% What do you think at MIT are the subjects or courses 01:02:12.910 --> 01:02:15.100 align:middle line:84% that you would take that would be more canonically 01:02:15.100 --> 01:02:18.070 align:middle line:90% mastery first-oriented? 01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:19.570 align:middle line:84% What are the subjects you would take 01:02:19.570 --> 01:02:21.640 align:middle line:84% that you would start with the smallest pieces, 01:02:21.640 --> 01:02:24.098 align:middle line:84% or by contrast, if it's easier, what are the ones that seem 01:02:24.098 --> 01:02:25.485 align:middle line:90% to be more creativity-first? 01:02:25.485 --> 01:02:30.790 align:middle line:90% 01:02:30.790 --> 01:02:34.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think more bio-heavy classes would definitely 01:02:34.200 --> 01:02:36.600 align:middle line:84% be mastery-first, because if you don't 01:02:36.600 --> 01:02:40.140 align:middle line:84% understand the basics of cells, you're not getting anywhere. 01:02:40.140 --> 01:02:42.358 align:middle line:84% You can't go to chapter 2 without understanding-- 01:02:42.358 --> 01:02:43.150 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 01:02:43.150 --> 01:02:44.692 align:middle line:84% So it seems to be-- so eventually you 01:02:44.692 --> 01:02:46.930 align:middle line:84% can do some pretty rad computational biology, 01:02:46.930 --> 01:02:48.250 align:middle line:90% biological engineering here. 01:02:48.250 --> 01:02:51.220 align:middle line:84% But there's not a lot in Bio 101 where they're like, 01:02:51.220 --> 01:02:54.570 align:middle line:84% yeah, let's have cells start generating novel proteins 01:02:54.570 --> 01:02:55.890 align:middle line:90% or things like that. 01:02:55.890 --> 01:02:59.350 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I would say, most of the general requirements, 01:02:59.350 --> 01:03:02.820 align:middle line:84% especially the chemistry requirements and the biology 01:03:02.820 --> 01:03:04.780 align:middle line:84% requirements, are with the hopes that, hey, 01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:06.810 align:middle line:84% if you learned a little bit about this, maybe 01:03:06.810 --> 01:03:10.260 align:middle line:84% then you become interested and want to go further and want 01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:11.808 align:middle line:90% that to be your major. 01:03:11.808 --> 01:03:12.600 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 01:03:12.600 --> 01:03:15.360 align:middle line:84% So which ones do that through giving you a bunch of facts, 01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.410 align:middle line:84% and which ones do that by letting you play the whole game? 01:03:18.410 --> 01:03:22.550 align:middle line:90% 01:03:22.550 --> 01:03:25.050 align:middle line:84% I mean, my understanding is that a number of the engineering 01:03:25.050 --> 01:03:27.160 align:middle line:84% departments-- like in mechanical engineering, 01:03:27.160 --> 01:03:29.610 align:middle line:84% you'd be more likely, earlier in your career, 01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:32.005 align:middle line:84% to be like, we're going to build a robot. 01:03:32.005 --> 01:03:33.380 align:middle line:84% Do you know how to build a robot? 01:03:33.380 --> 01:03:33.740 align:middle line:90% No. 01:03:33.740 --> 01:03:35.040 align:middle line:84% Are you going to be good at building a robot? 01:03:35.040 --> 01:03:35.210 align:middle line:90% No. 01:03:35.210 --> 01:03:36.570 align:middle line:84% You're going to build a lousy robot. 01:03:36.570 --> 01:03:37.980 align:middle line:84% We're going to let you build a crummy robot. 01:03:37.980 --> 01:03:40.397 align:middle line:84% And some TA is going to put their arm around your shoulder 01:03:40.397 --> 01:03:41.923 align:middle line:90% and be like, that robot's OK. 01:03:41.923 --> 01:03:44.090 align:middle line:84% That robot's only OK because you don't know anything 01:03:44.090 --> 01:03:45.120 align:middle line:90% about control systems. 01:03:45.120 --> 01:03:46.020 align:middle line:90% But guess what? 01:03:46.020 --> 01:03:47.725 align:middle line:84% Guess what one of our junior classes is? 01:03:47.725 --> 01:03:48.600 align:middle line:90% It's control systems. 01:03:48.600 --> 01:03:50.610 align:middle line:84% And you're like, I can't wait to take Control Systems. 01:03:50.610 --> 01:03:51.420 align:middle line:90% It's going to be boring. 01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:52.640 align:middle line:84% It's going to be a bunch of equations 01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:54.240 align:middle line:84% and other Psets and things like that. 01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:56.600 align:middle line:84% But there's a robot that you want to drive. 01:03:56.600 --> 01:03:58.490 align:middle line:84% The NEAT program, I think, at MIT 01:03:58.490 --> 01:04:00.350 align:middle line:84% is really about trying to create a bunch 01:04:00.350 --> 01:04:01.912 align:middle line:84% of these experiential experiences. 01:04:01.912 --> 01:04:04.370 align:middle line:84% I mean, historically, if you were to look at our curriculum 01:04:04.370 --> 01:04:07.320 align:middle line:84% across MIT, many more things would be much more like this. 01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:10.160 align:middle line:84% I mean, our math curriculum, I think, is very much this way. 01:04:10.160 --> 01:04:12.650 align:middle line:84% You're just going to do math that other people have figured 01:04:12.650 --> 01:04:13.710 align:middle line:90% out for years and years. 01:04:13.710 --> 01:04:16.290 align:middle line:84% And maybe, by the time you get to the end of MIT, 01:04:16.290 --> 01:04:18.410 align:middle line:84% but you might have to wait till graduate school, 01:04:18.410 --> 01:04:20.577 align:middle line:84% you can do some new math that someone else has never 01:04:20.577 --> 01:04:21.830 align:middle line:90% done before. 01:04:21.830 --> 01:04:24.980 align:middle line:84% My wife teaches in the Materials Science department. 01:04:24.980 --> 01:04:27.752 align:middle line:84% And some of the stuff with the Breaker Lab 01:04:27.752 --> 01:04:29.210 align:middle line:84% that they just developed and things 01:04:29.210 --> 01:04:32.620 align:middle line:84% like that, where they did an early exercise in one 01:04:32.620 --> 01:04:34.840 align:middle line:84% of her classes, which is, build products 01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:37.090 align:middle line:84% from the worst possible materials. 01:04:37.090 --> 01:04:39.490 align:middle line:84% So phone cases that were made of sponges 01:04:39.490 --> 01:04:41.582 align:middle line:84% and absorbed water, or locks that 01:04:41.582 --> 01:04:43.540 align:middle line:84% were made of clear plastic, where you could see 01:04:43.540 --> 01:04:44.707 align:middle line:90% all the tumblers and things. 01:04:44.707 --> 01:04:46.690 align:middle line:84% Basically, play around with materials. 01:04:46.690 --> 01:04:47.780 align:middle line:90% Do stuff with materials. 01:04:47.780 --> 01:04:50.072 align:middle line:84% And then you're going to take some super boring, really 01:04:50.072 --> 01:04:52.430 align:middle line:84% hard classes, but you're motivated to take those things. 01:04:52.430 --> 01:04:54.880 align:middle line:84% So I think you can look across environments 01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:57.670 align:middle line:84% and see how they choose different pathways 01:04:57.670 --> 01:05:00.450 align:middle line:84% through these different-- and if you look at reading instruction 01:05:00.450 --> 01:05:02.950 align:middle line:84% in the United States, there's a huge debate right now about, 01:05:02.950 --> 01:05:05.290 align:middle line:84% do you start with mastery and facts and pieces 01:05:05.290 --> 01:05:08.890 align:middle line:84% and build up to readers, or do you start by exposing people 01:05:08.890 --> 01:05:11.410 align:middle line:84% to books and letters and words and the things they love. 01:05:11.410 --> 01:05:15.220 align:middle line:84% And lots of time, in almost no course of study 01:05:15.220 --> 01:05:17.470 align:middle line:84% is the answer only one of those things. 01:05:17.470 --> 01:05:19.580 align:middle line:84% Nobody believes you should just do creativity. 01:05:19.580 --> 01:05:21.200 align:middle line:84% I think almost all of our subjects 01:05:21.200 --> 01:05:24.430 align:middle line:84% have classes which are like, OK, time to buckle down and learn 01:05:24.430 --> 01:05:24.950 align:middle line:90% this thing. 01:05:24.950 --> 01:05:26.470 align:middle line:84% But we can often think about how we 01:05:26.470 --> 01:05:29.440 align:middle line:84% order these things differently to produce more motivation 01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:32.740 align:middle line:84% or develop identity or other kinds of things like that. 01:05:32.740 --> 01:05:37.673 align:middle line:84% But again, across different pedagogical philosophies, 01:05:37.673 --> 01:05:40.090 align:middle line:84% it's almost always the case that people have a very shared 01:05:40.090 --> 01:05:42.310 align:middle line:90% idea about what expertise is. 01:05:42.310 --> 01:05:47.200 align:middle line:84% So I think even people who are situated learning folks, 01:05:47.200 --> 01:05:52.630 align:middle line:84% they don't want you to invent midwifery anew. 01:05:52.630 --> 01:05:54.820 align:middle line:84% They want the babies consistently delivered 01:05:54.820 --> 01:05:57.880 align:middle line:90% in safe, healthy ways. 01:05:57.880 --> 01:06:01.780 align:middle line:84% So it's different beliefs about how you get there. 01:06:01.780 --> 01:06:04.600 align:middle line:84% There are efforts to reconcile these things, which 01:06:04.600 --> 01:06:05.570 align:middle line:90% I didn't make you read. 01:06:05.570 --> 01:06:07.250 align:middle line:84% But if you wanted to explore a little bit more, 01:06:07.250 --> 01:06:09.280 align:middle line:84% I'll give you an introduction to one of them 01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:10.790 align:middle line:84% and the rabbit hole for this week. 01:06:10.790 --> 01:06:14.210 align:middle line:84% Ken Koedinger has a couple of things you can look at. 01:06:14.210 --> 01:06:15.930 align:middle line:84% But the lecture he gives is actually 01:06:15.930 --> 01:06:17.180 align:middle line:90% the easiest way of getting it. 01:06:17.180 --> 01:06:19.060 align:middle line:84% There's a video in there that's quite good. 01:06:19.060 --> 01:06:21.020 align:middle line:84% The Knowledge-Learning Instruction Framework. 01:06:21.020 --> 01:06:22.520 align:middle line:84% And he says, one useful way to think 01:06:22.520 --> 01:06:28.710 align:middle line:84% about this is that there are more complex and less complex 01:06:28.710 --> 01:06:30.640 align:middle line:84% knowledge components in the things we learn. 01:06:30.640 --> 01:06:34.150 align:middle line:84% So there are things like Chinese characters, 01:06:34.150 --> 01:06:38.100 align:middle line:84% and there are things like anthropological principles 01:06:38.100 --> 01:06:40.680 align:middle line:90% about how society are organized. 01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:43.240 align:middle line:84% And there are different levels of complexity. 01:06:43.240 --> 01:06:46.320 align:middle line:84% There's also learning processes, and there's 01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:51.270 align:middle line:84% things like flashcards, which is just for memorizing stuff. 01:06:51.270 --> 01:06:54.570 align:middle line:84% And then there's things like talk and explaining 01:06:54.570 --> 01:06:56.940 align:middle line:84% and sense-making and stuff like that. 01:06:56.940 --> 01:07:00.930 align:middle line:84% And he has this theory that, basically, you 01:07:00.930 --> 01:07:03.600 align:middle line:84% should be matching instructional components 01:07:03.600 --> 01:07:07.950 align:middle line:84% to how complex the knowledge component-- learning processes 01:07:07.950 --> 01:07:10.650 align:middle line:84% to how complex the knowledge components are. 01:07:10.650 --> 01:07:11.850 align:middle line:90% He has a nice-- 01:07:11.850 --> 01:07:15.060 align:middle line:84% this is kind of a giant science, which 01:07:15.060 --> 01:07:17.550 align:middle line:84% is in process, where here are a bunch of things that people 01:07:17.550 --> 01:07:18.540 align:middle line:90% were trying to learn-- 01:07:18.540 --> 01:07:22.210 align:middle line:84% Chinese vocab, French articles, chem models, pressure concepts. 01:07:22.210 --> 01:07:24.940 align:middle line:84% Here are a bunch of instructional strategies-- 01:07:24.940 --> 01:07:26.640 align:middle line:84% optimal scheduling, feedback, worked 01:07:26.640 --> 01:07:29.100 align:middle line:84% examples, accountable talk, collaboration. 01:07:29.100 --> 01:07:32.600 align:middle line:84% And you find that these are less complex to more 01:07:32.600 --> 01:07:34.410 align:middle line:90% complex teaching. 01:07:34.410 --> 01:07:38.910 align:middle line:84% This is less complex to more complex knowledge components. 01:07:38.910 --> 01:07:42.590 align:middle line:84% And that basically, where you get studies with statistically 01:07:42.590 --> 01:07:44.360 align:middle line:84% significant effects on learning is 01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:46.553 align:middle line:84% when you move through the middle of this space, 01:07:46.553 --> 01:07:49.220 align:middle line:84% when you map the right knowledge component to the right learning 01:07:49.220 --> 01:07:49.680 align:middle line:90% process. 01:07:49.680 --> 01:07:51.290 align:middle line:84% I don't know that Ken Koedinger and his colleagues 01:07:51.290 --> 01:07:53.240 align:middle line:84% have totally figured this out either, 01:07:53.240 --> 01:07:57.300 align:middle line:84% but it's one way to start reconciling some of these ideas. 01:07:57.300 --> 01:07:58.520 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:07:58.520 --> 01:08:02.060 align:middle line:84% The most important thing for Wednesday 01:08:02.060 --> 01:08:03.870 align:middle line:84% is that we're meeting at the MIT Museum. 01:08:03.870 --> 01:08:06.683 align:middle line:84% Please try to be at the MIT Museum. 01:08:06.683 --> 01:08:09.350 align:middle line:84% If you can get there by 1:00 and get checked in and put your bag 01:08:09.350 --> 01:08:11.310 align:middle line:84% in the locker, then we can start class at 1:05. 01:08:11.310 --> 01:08:13.518 align:middle line:84% So make every effort to get there as soon as you can. 01:08:13.518 --> 01:08:15.470 align:middle line:90% There's a few pieces of reading. 01:08:15.470 --> 01:08:19.050 align:middle line:84% The Stephen Wolfram thing is totally worth your time, 01:08:19.050 --> 01:08:20.982 align:middle line:84% and it will require a little attention. 01:08:20.982 --> 01:08:22.649 align:middle line:84% You'll have to move your way through it. 01:08:22.649 --> 01:08:24.830 align:middle line:84% But he does just a beautiful job explaining 01:08:24.830 --> 01:08:27.175 align:middle line:84% the fundamentals of generative pre-trained models, 01:08:27.175 --> 01:08:29.550 align:middle line:84% a little bit about neural networks, and things like that. 01:08:29.550 --> 01:08:30.770 align:middle line:84% And then there's a bunch of other readings 01:08:30.770 --> 01:08:33.560 align:middle line:84% that are in there, some of which are about the exhibits you'll 01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:36.439 align:middle line:84% see at the museum, and some are some other educational things 01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:40.130 align:middle line:84% that me and some other folks at MIT have written about GPT. 01:08:40.130 --> 01:08:42.111 align:middle line:84% And then be sure you refresh yourself and you 01:08:42.111 --> 01:08:44.069 align:middle line:84% start thinking about working on the assignment, 01:08:44.069 --> 01:08:46.220 align:middle line:84% because you now have two of the crucial building blocks 01:08:46.220 --> 01:08:48.080 align:middle line:84% that you'll need for the assignment, which 01:08:48.080 --> 01:08:50.420 align:middle line:84% is some sense of direct instruction and cognitive load 01:08:50.420 --> 01:08:52.890 align:middle line:84% theory, and some sense of constructionism, 01:08:52.890 --> 01:08:55.682 align:middle line:84% situated learning, progressive learning kinds of things. 01:08:55.682 --> 01:08:57.140 align:middle line:84% And you'll need both of those ideas 01:08:57.140 --> 01:08:58.529 align:middle line:90% to do assignment number one. 01:08:58.529 --> 01:09:00.170 align:middle line:84% And we'll talk a little bit about how 01:09:00.170 --> 01:09:02.600 align:middle line:84% we want to do assignment number one on Wednesday. 01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:04.200 align:middle line:90% Stay safe in the snow. 01:09:04.200 --> 01:09:05.930 align:middle line:84% Have a wonderful next couple of days, 01:09:05.930 --> 01:09:08.829 align:middle line:84% and I'll see you at the museum on Wednesday. 01:09:08.829 --> 01:09:26.000 align:middle line:90%