WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.395 align:middle line:90% [SQUEAKING] 00:00:02.395 --> 00:00:03.832 align:middle line:90% [RUSTLING] 00:00:03.832 --> 00:00:06.227 align:middle line:90% [CLICKING] 00:00:06.227 --> 00:00:09.215 align:middle line:90% 00:00:09.215 --> 00:00:11.340 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: To participate in this next exercise, 00:00:11.340 --> 00:00:15.320 align:middle line:84% you will have to grab one of these index cards 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:17.390 align:middle line:84% that are on the table that correspond 00:00:17.390 --> 00:00:18.600 align:middle line:90% to a particular technology. 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.780 align:middle line:84% It looks like film, radio, and television 00:00:20.780 --> 00:00:24.770 align:middle line:84% are amongst the remaining ones, and you'll get in small groups 00:00:24.770 --> 00:00:26.610 align:middle line:90% and work on those. 00:00:26.610 --> 00:00:28.160 align:middle line:90% Here's what I'd like you to do. 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:33.860 align:middle line:84% Find the other people who have the same card as you. 00:00:33.860 --> 00:00:38.030 align:middle line:84% Discuss what you learned from the readings, anything 00:00:38.030 --> 00:00:40.510 align:middle line:84% that stands out to you, comes in your mind. 00:00:40.510 --> 00:00:42.260 align:middle line:84% But then I want you to make a chart, which 00:00:42.260 --> 00:00:45.710 align:middle line:84% you can do on the whiteboard or on our blue pieces of paper 00:00:45.710 --> 00:00:50.310 align:middle line:84% there, that capture three key ideas. 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:52.730 align:middle line:84% First of all, who are all of the stakeholders 00:00:52.730 --> 00:00:55.040 align:middle line:84% who are involved in the implementation 00:00:55.040 --> 00:00:55.980 align:middle line:90% of this technology? 00:00:55.980 --> 00:00:58.460 align:middle line:84% One of the things that I think Larry Cuban is particularly 00:00:58.460 --> 00:01:01.080 align:middle line:84% wonderful at is giving you a sense 00:01:01.080 --> 00:01:05.160 align:middle line:84% of all of the different hands that touch a technology making 00:01:05.160 --> 00:01:07.410 align:middle line:84% its way into a school, and all of the different hands 00:01:07.410 --> 00:01:09.430 align:middle line:84% that touch a technology when it's in the school. 00:01:09.430 --> 00:01:13.500 align:middle line:84% This is incredibly important for understanding how technologies 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:16.660 align:middle line:90% actually get used. 00:01:16.660 --> 00:01:18.525 align:middle line:84% So a lot of times in canonical design, 00:01:18.525 --> 00:01:20.400 align:middle line:84% I think this comes up in software engineering 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:21.870 align:middle line:84% classes and things like this idea 00:01:21.870 --> 00:01:24.930 align:middle line:84% that there's a programmer and a user, 00:01:24.930 --> 00:01:27.160 align:middle line:84% and the user is one person who's sitting 00:01:27.160 --> 00:01:29.160 align:middle line:84% at a keyboard with their fingers on the keyboard 00:01:29.160 --> 00:01:31.535 align:middle line:84% and like, that's the person you need to pay attention to. 00:01:31.535 --> 00:01:35.130 align:middle line:84% And that two part model of designer and user 00:01:35.130 --> 00:01:37.470 align:middle line:90% totally breaks down in schools. 00:01:37.470 --> 00:01:39.720 align:middle line:84% There are lots of people who are very 00:01:39.720 --> 00:01:42.450 align:middle line:84% different who could be considered users of technology 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:44.220 align:middle line:90% in schools. 00:01:44.220 --> 00:01:46.650 align:middle line:84% Another thing that Larry Cuban does really 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:50.730 align:middle line:84% well is he helps us pay attention 00:01:50.730 --> 00:01:53.800 align:middle line:84% to how these people have what I'll call different interests. 00:01:53.800 --> 00:01:55.870 align:middle line:84% By interests, I don't mean curiosities. 00:01:55.870 --> 00:02:00.000 align:middle line:84% I mean incentives, stakes, how a political scientist 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.410 align:middle line:90% might use the word interest. 00:02:01.410 --> 00:02:03.270 align:middle line:84% All of these different stakeholders 00:02:03.270 --> 00:02:06.990 align:middle line:84% are rewarded for different kinds of things. 00:02:06.990 --> 00:02:10.630 align:middle line:84% They also have what we'll call interests or disincentives. 00:02:10.630 --> 00:02:13.470 align:middle line:84% They are also trying to avoid or will be punished 00:02:13.470 --> 00:02:15.240 align:middle line:90% for different kinds of things. 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:18.245 align:middle line:84% So for the technology that you picked a card of and are talking 00:02:18.245 --> 00:02:19.620 align:middle line:84% with your colleagues about, think 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:21.037 align:middle line:84% of all of the different people who 00:02:21.037 --> 00:02:22.980 align:middle line:84% you think could be considered stakeholders 00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:25.313 align:middle line:84% in the implementation of this thing. 00:02:25.313 --> 00:02:26.980 align:middle line:84% And then for each of those stakeholders, 00:02:26.980 --> 00:02:29.040 align:middle line:84% come up with a couple of their interests 00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:31.800 align:middle line:84% and a couple of their interests or disincentives 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:33.970 align:middle line:84% or things that punish them or those kinds of things. 00:02:33.970 --> 00:02:36.363 align:middle line:84% Does that, as a general exercise, make sense? 00:02:36.363 --> 00:02:38.280 align:middle line:84% And the thing that we're trying to do together 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:42.270 align:middle line:84% is we want to try to recreate the world 00:02:42.270 --> 00:02:43.900 align:middle line:90% around these technologies. 00:02:43.900 --> 00:02:47.890 align:middle line:84% That's what I think Larry Cuban is so fabulous at is saying, 00:02:47.890 --> 00:02:49.950 align:middle line:84% yep, a television set is going to roll into a-- 00:02:49.950 --> 00:02:52.230 align:middle line:84% it's going to roll into a classroom and into a school 00:02:52.230 --> 00:02:54.313 align:middle line:84% and into a community, and there's all these people 00:02:54.313 --> 00:02:55.260 align:middle line:90% who are part of that. 00:02:55.260 --> 00:02:56.760 align:middle line:84% That's what we really want to get at here. 00:02:56.760 --> 00:02:58.885 align:middle line:84% The last thing I'll tell you before I cut you loose 00:02:58.885 --> 00:03:01.620 align:middle line:84% is Larry Cuban has a totally fascinating history himself. 00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:04.692 align:middle line:84% He was a social studies teacher in the '50s and '60s, then he 00:03:04.692 --> 00:03:06.900 align:middle line:84% was a school principal, then he was a superintendent. 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:07.880 align:middle line:84% He was actually the superintendent 00:03:07.880 --> 00:03:10.800 align:middle line:84% in Arlington, Virginia, which is where my wife went to school. 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.940 align:middle line:84% So when my wife was an elementary school student, 00:03:13.940 --> 00:03:18.450 align:middle line:84% her superintendent at the time was Larry Cuban, an Arlington, 00:03:18.450 --> 00:03:19.740 align:middle line:90% Virginia resident-- 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:20.240 align:middle line:90% Fairfax. 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:20.850 align:middle line:90% Close enough. 00:03:20.850 --> 00:03:22.370 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:03:22.370 --> 00:03:25.347 align:middle line:84% And it was only after he had a pretty distinguished career 00:03:25.347 --> 00:03:27.180 align:middle line:84% as a teacher, a principal, a superintendent, 00:03:27.180 --> 00:03:30.590 align:middle line:84% that he went to Stanford, got his dissertation, 00:03:30.590 --> 00:03:33.260 align:middle line:84% became a historian of education, and then 00:03:33.260 --> 00:03:36.750 align:middle line:84% eventually a history of education professor out there. 00:03:36.750 --> 00:03:38.663 align:middle line:84% So he's someone who's extremely well-read, 00:03:38.663 --> 00:03:40.830 align:middle line:84% as I'm sure you got a sense of and things like that. 00:03:40.830 --> 00:03:42.380 align:middle line:84% But he also just deeply understands 00:03:42.380 --> 00:03:44.510 align:middle line:84% the kinds of things that make schools tick and make 00:03:44.510 --> 00:03:46.050 align:middle line:90% the people inside schools tick. 00:03:46.050 --> 00:03:47.850 align:middle line:90% Does this exercise make sense? 00:03:47.850 --> 00:03:49.260 align:middle line:90% Find the people with your cards. 00:03:49.260 --> 00:03:50.280 align:middle line:90% Move yourselves around. 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:51.680 align:middle line:84% Make this little chart, either on the board 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:53.070 align:middle line:84% or on these blue pieces of paper. 00:03:53.070 --> 00:03:53.570 align:middle line:90% Ready? 00:03:53.570 --> 00:03:55.340 align:middle line:90% Go. 00:03:55.340 --> 00:03:58.950 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:03:58.950 --> 00:04:01.150 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Those things are hugely important. 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:02.900 align:middle line:84% Like, where does teaching actually happen? 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:07.340 align:middle line:84% There's some human being who needs to go to the bathroom 00:04:07.340 --> 00:04:08.072 align:middle line:90% and needs to eat. 00:04:08.072 --> 00:04:09.780 align:middle line:84% I mean, he has that great quote in there. 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:11.000 align:middle line:84% It's not about film, but television, 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:12.500 align:middle line:84% that they found that they're more 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:16.100 align:middle line:84% likely to use television in the afternoon than in the mornings. 00:04:16.100 --> 00:04:18.829 align:middle line:84% And it's all like biology and culture, 00:04:18.829 --> 00:04:20.940 align:middle line:84% our brains work better in the morning. 00:04:20.940 --> 00:04:23.100 align:middle line:84% We're all a little flagging by the afternoon, 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:24.390 align:middle line:90% those kinds of things. 00:04:24.390 --> 00:04:28.070 align:middle line:84% And so yeah, I think anybody who's building a technology 00:04:28.070 --> 00:04:32.810 align:middle line:84% has to think to themselves, what are-- 00:04:32.810 --> 00:04:33.870 align:middle line:90% yeah, yeah. 00:04:33.870 --> 00:04:36.315 align:middle line:84% What are the variations in a teacher's day? 00:04:36.315 --> 00:04:38.190 align:middle line:84% When do they have more energy or less energy? 00:04:38.190 --> 00:04:40.857 align:middle line:84% How does it fit into those kinds of cycles and things like that? 00:04:40.857 --> 00:04:44.930 align:middle line:84% Those are every bit as real as the test score goals 00:04:44.930 --> 00:04:46.650 align:middle line:90% that we have or anything else. 00:04:46.650 --> 00:04:48.395 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:04:48.395 --> 00:04:55.143 align:middle line:90% 00:04:55.143 --> 00:04:56.560 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: This is really good. 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:57.393 align:middle line:90% This is really good. 00:04:57.393 --> 00:04:58.510 align:middle line:90% Take a few more minutes. 00:04:58.510 --> 00:04:59.765 align:middle line:90% Take a few more minutes. 00:04:59.765 --> 00:05:03.398 align:middle line:90% 00:05:03.398 --> 00:05:05.940 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: We're trying to think about disinterest for schools 00:05:05.940 --> 00:05:06.980 align:middle line:90% and for producers. 00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:08.103 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Sure. 00:05:08.103 --> 00:05:10.020 align:middle line:84% So if you're a school, what would make you go, 00:05:10.020 --> 00:05:12.300 align:middle line:84% eh, I'm not sure I want to do anything with films. 00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:14.460 align:middle line:90% So it's 1913. 00:05:14.460 --> 00:05:17.498 align:middle line:84% Silent films started coming out in earnest 00:05:17.498 --> 00:05:18.790 align:middle line:90% around the turn of the century. 00:05:18.790 --> 00:05:21.300 align:middle line:90% There's a handful of people. 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:23.920 align:middle line:84% The most prominent of them is Thomas Edison. 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.030 align:middle line:84% Guy invents the light bulb and he gets in front of Congress 00:05:27.030 --> 00:05:28.260 align:middle line:90% and he says-- 00:05:28.260 --> 00:05:30.130 align:middle line:90% first in 1913, he says-- 00:05:30.130 --> 00:05:33.370 align:middle line:84% I mean, I'll read the other quote, but he says, in a decade, 00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:36.240 align:middle line:84% textbooks will be replaced by filmstrips. 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.970 align:middle line:84% That's how powerful this new technology is going to be. 00:05:38.970 --> 00:05:40.860 align:middle line:84% If you're a school principal, what 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.172 align:middle line:84% would be some things that make you go, 00:05:43.172 --> 00:05:44.880 align:middle line:84% they're pretty smart, Thomas, but I'm not 00:05:44.880 --> 00:05:46.712 align:middle line:90% so sure about this one. 00:05:46.712 --> 00:05:49.420 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Maybe if they just put a bunch of money into textbooks. 00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:50.212 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Sure. 00:05:50.212 --> 00:05:52.740 align:middle line:84% So yeah, they have an entire infrastructure 00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:55.300 align:middle line:84% built around the existing technologies. 00:05:55.300 --> 00:05:57.010 align:middle line:90% They have shelves on the wall. 00:05:57.010 --> 00:05:58.780 align:middle line:84% They have libraries full of books. 00:05:58.780 --> 00:06:00.780 align:middle line:84% Every one of their teachers has been 00:06:00.780 --> 00:06:03.210 align:middle line:84% trained to teach with textbooks, and not 00:06:03.210 --> 00:06:06.120 align:middle line:84% a single one of their teachers, when these things are first 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:08.220 align:middle line:84% introduced, has ever been in a class 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:10.270 align:middle line:84% as a student learning from a film. 00:06:10.270 --> 00:06:13.900 align:middle line:84% So you have this huge inherent conservatism in the system. 00:06:13.900 --> 00:06:14.890 align:middle line:90% So that could be one. 00:06:14.890 --> 00:06:17.400 align:middle line:84% What would be what would be some others? 00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:19.530 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:06:19.530 --> 00:06:24.020 align:middle line:90% 00:06:24.020 --> 00:06:24.645 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:06:24.645 --> 00:06:26.603 align:middle line:84% I mean, I guess it's kind of adding on to that, 00:06:26.603 --> 00:06:29.560 align:middle line:84% but integrating it into a classroom setting. 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:34.590 align:middle line:84% How would they even integrate it to-- even if they're completely 00:06:34.590 --> 00:06:38.232 align:middle line:84% on board, how would they even integrate it into a classroom? 00:06:38.232 --> 00:06:39.690 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: For films, what would 00:06:39.690 --> 00:06:41.436 align:middle line:84% be some of the challenges of integration? 00:06:41.436 --> 00:06:45.095 align:middle line:90% 00:06:45.095 --> 00:06:46.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The technology that you 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:49.920 align:middle line:84% would need to put into a classroom 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:52.383 align:middle line:90% or to move into a school. 00:06:52.383 --> 00:06:53.800 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Tell me specifically 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:56.460 align:middle line:84% for films what some of that technology might be. 00:06:56.460 --> 00:06:57.710 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I mean, this isn't-- 00:06:57.710 --> 00:07:00.910 align:middle line:84% I don't think the projectors back then 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:02.587 align:middle line:90% could fit into a classroom. 00:07:02.587 --> 00:07:03.920 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Oh, so they could. 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.050 align:middle line:90% I mean, they're portable enough. 00:07:06.050 --> 00:07:06.920 align:middle line:90% But they're big. 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:09.430 align:middle line:84% They're these big lumbering machines for which the rooms 00:07:09.430 --> 00:07:12.760 align:middle line:84% are-- if you have a classroom, let's say you have a big 00:07:12.760 --> 00:07:16.330 align:middle line:84% population growth and so you built-- 00:07:16.330 --> 00:07:19.990 align:middle line:84% someone in the 1850s built a school and it was 12 kids per 00:07:19.990 --> 00:07:22.360 align:middle line:84% classroom, and now you're putting 18 kids per classroom 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:23.000 align:middle line:90% in there. 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:24.790 align:middle line:84% Like, a totally legitimate reason. 00:07:24.790 --> 00:07:28.355 align:middle line:84% There is not space in this room to physically move this machine. 00:07:28.355 --> 00:07:29.980 align:middle line:84% What are some other sort of-- what else 00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:31.780 align:middle line:84% do you need for films as a technology 00:07:31.780 --> 00:07:33.260 align:middle line:90% to be able to be implemented? 00:07:33.260 --> 00:07:34.623 align:middle line:90% So you need a giant projector. 00:07:34.623 --> 00:07:36.290 align:middle line:84% You're going to put the thing on wheels. 00:07:36.290 --> 00:07:37.207 align:middle line:90% What else do you need? 00:07:37.207 --> 00:07:39.353 align:middle line:90% 00:07:39.353 --> 00:07:41.270 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A place to actually project it onto. 00:07:41.270 --> 00:07:41.780 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: OK, good. 00:07:41.780 --> 00:07:43.610 align:middle line:84% You're going to have to go to all of your classrooms, 00:07:43.610 --> 00:07:45.220 align:middle line:84% and you're going to have to install screens 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:46.262 align:middle line:90% at the front of the room. 00:07:46.262 --> 00:07:49.840 align:middle line:84% Not the hugest challenge, but also not free. 00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:53.550 align:middle line:84% Like, so who's going to do these things? 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:57.320 align:middle line:84% Films also came on these huge reels. 00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:01.080 align:middle line:84% It wasn't just like pick your YouTube channel and play. 00:08:01.080 --> 00:08:02.600 align:middle line:84% Where in your building are you going 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:04.680 align:middle line:90% to keep a library of film reels? 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:07.470 align:middle line:84% Who is going to organize those libraries of film reels? 00:08:07.470 --> 00:08:11.120 align:middle line:84% Like if you have four elementary schools-- 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.010 align:middle line:84% or four elementary classrooms, let's 00:08:13.010 --> 00:08:14.750 align:middle line:84% say you have four first grades, are 00:08:14.750 --> 00:08:16.582 align:middle line:84% you going to buy four copies of this film 00:08:16.582 --> 00:08:18.540 align:middle line:84% so that everyone can watch it at the same time? 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:22.190 align:middle line:84% If not, how are you going to physically organize and move 00:08:22.190 --> 00:08:25.160 align:middle line:84% this giant reel from one space to another? 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:27.780 align:middle line:84% You can imagine the principal being like, but how are we? 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:28.280 align:middle line:90% But how are? 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:28.940 align:middle line:90% But how are? 00:08:28.940 --> 00:08:29.610 align:middle line:90% But how are we? 00:08:29.610 --> 00:08:31.610 align:middle line:90% And all this stuff costs money. 00:08:31.610 --> 00:08:35.800 align:middle line:90% So those are all kinds of-- 00:08:35.800 --> 00:08:37.515 align:middle line:84% I mean, Thomas Edison is here telling you 00:08:37.515 --> 00:08:39.140 align:middle line:84% that you're going to get 100% efficient 00:08:39.140 --> 00:08:40.557 align:middle line:84% learning through this thing, which 00:08:40.557 --> 00:08:42.640 align:middle line:84% is the potential gains, which no one has 00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:44.640 align:middle line:84% any evidence for because it hasn't happened yet. 00:08:44.640 --> 00:08:46.160 align:middle line:84% But you've got to think to yourself, 00:08:46.160 --> 00:08:47.490 align:middle line:90% what are all these costs? 00:08:47.490 --> 00:08:49.010 align:middle line:84% What are all these material changes? 00:08:49.010 --> 00:08:50.860 align:middle line:84% So think about how you can articulate some of those things. 00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.360 align:middle line:90% But good. 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.560 align:middle line:90% When you really get into-- 00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:54.960 align:middle line:84% to do this exercise well, you have to, like, 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:57.390 align:middle line:90% what exactly is this technology? 00:08:57.390 --> 00:08:59.227 align:middle line:84% Even physically, what does it require? 00:08:59.227 --> 00:09:01.060 align:middle line:84% How many of these things do you need to buy? 00:09:01.060 --> 00:09:02.020 align:middle line:90% How much do they cost? 00:09:02.020 --> 00:09:02.978 align:middle line:90% All that kind of stuff. 00:09:02.978 --> 00:09:05.114 align:middle line:90% How reusable are they? 00:09:05.114 --> 00:09:07.140 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:09:07.140 --> 00:09:10.127 align:middle line:90% 00:09:10.127 --> 00:09:11.710 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: OK, this is really good. 00:09:11.710 --> 00:09:13.002 align:middle line:90% Why don't we take a break here? 00:09:13.002 --> 00:09:14.960 align:middle line:84% Go ahead and you can sit back down to the seats 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:15.840 align:middle line:90% that you were at. 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:20.370 align:middle line:84% I think everyone's written kind of broadly enough 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:23.460 align:middle line:84% that we'll be able to see from a distance. 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:25.210 align:middle line:90% But yeah, really good. 00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:25.710 align:middle line:90% Really good. 00:09:25.710 --> 00:09:27.543 align:middle line:84% Now I need to find a little spot for me to-- 00:09:27.543 --> 00:09:30.390 align:middle line:90% 00:09:30.390 --> 00:09:32.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Everyone's last minute notes. 00:09:32.040 --> 00:09:33.082 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, yeah. 00:09:33.082 --> 00:09:38.320 align:middle line:84% Now's your chance to put the final few things up there. 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.820 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:09:38.820 --> 00:09:42.210 align:middle line:84% So what was the minimum number of stakeholders people 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:43.950 align:middle line:90% came up with? 00:09:43.950 --> 00:09:46.210 align:middle line:84% These guys are the winners with the longest list. 00:09:46.210 --> 00:09:48.050 align:middle line:90% Let's just read it out loud. 00:09:48.050 --> 00:09:48.550 align:middle line:90% Oh, no. 00:09:48.550 --> 00:09:49.050 align:middle line:90% The state. 00:09:49.050 --> 00:09:51.370 align:middle line:84% Admin, parents, teachers, students, corporations, 00:09:51.370 --> 00:09:54.690 align:middle line:84% manufacturers, edtech investors, developers, policymakers. 00:09:54.690 --> 00:09:55.800 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:57.520 align:middle line:90% So just as a starting point-- 00:09:57.520 --> 00:10:00.062 align:middle line:84% I mean, there are some other ones that showed up around here. 00:10:00.062 --> 00:10:04.700 align:middle line:84% Studios, broadcasters, the FCC that different-- psychologists. 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:05.200 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.680 align:middle line:84% There are a lot of people who have something 00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:09.670 align:middle line:90% at stake in these decisions. 00:10:09.670 --> 00:10:12.790 align:middle line:84% They're complex, multi-human kinds of decisions. 00:10:12.790 --> 00:10:14.130 align:middle line:90% So that's a good start. 00:10:14.130 --> 00:10:16.230 align:middle line:90% Let me just read. 00:10:16.230 --> 00:10:18.660 align:middle line:84% So given how complex these things are, why are folks 00:10:18.660 --> 00:10:19.840 align:middle line:90% so enthusiastic about it? 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.510 align:middle line:90% Let's ask Thomas Edison. 00:10:22.510 --> 00:10:24.490 align:middle line:84% What does Thomas Edison think about this? 00:10:24.490 --> 00:10:27.570 align:middle line:84% I believe that the motion picture is destined 00:10:27.570 --> 00:10:31.590 align:middle line:84% to revolutionize our educational system, and that in a few years, 00:10:31.590 --> 00:10:35.980 align:middle line:84% it will supplant largely, if not entirely, the use of textbooks. 00:10:35.980 --> 00:10:37.570 align:middle line:84% I should say that on the average, 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:40.080 align:middle line:84% we get about 2% efficiency out of school books 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:41.580 align:middle line:90% as they are written today. 00:10:41.580 --> 00:10:42.760 align:middle line:90% You're laughing. 00:10:42.760 --> 00:10:45.180 align:middle line:90% Why are you laughing? 00:10:45.180 --> 00:10:47.290 align:middle line:84% Thomas Edison is just here making shit up. 00:10:47.290 --> 00:10:48.490 align:middle line:90% Like, he doesn't-- 00:10:48.490 --> 00:10:49.220 align:middle line:90% 2%? 00:10:49.220 --> 00:10:50.030 align:middle line:90% That doesn't mean a thing. 00:10:50.030 --> 00:10:51.155 align:middle line:90% He was good at light bulbs. 00:10:51.155 --> 00:10:52.930 align:middle line:90% He wasn't maybe as good at this. 00:10:52.930 --> 00:10:54.970 align:middle line:84% The education of the future as I see 00:10:54.970 --> 00:10:57.370 align:middle line:84% it will be conducted through the medium of the motion 00:10:57.370 --> 00:11:00.160 align:middle line:84% picture, where it should be possible to obtain 00:11:00.160 --> 00:11:02.540 align:middle line:90% 100% efficiency. 00:11:02.540 --> 00:11:05.020 align:middle line:90% Thomas Edison, 1922. 00:11:05.020 --> 00:11:06.520 align:middle line:84% You'll read a couple of other quotes 00:11:06.520 --> 00:11:08.000 align:middle line:90% that I have from Thomas Edison. 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.298 align:middle line:84% One of them is in here, in "Failure to Disrupt" 00:11:10.298 --> 00:11:11.090 align:middle line:90% when you read that. 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:14.590 align:middle line:84% But in 1913, he went in front of Congress and said, in 10 years, 00:11:14.590 --> 00:11:18.740 align:middle line:84% the textbook will be entirely replaced by filmstrips. 00:11:18.740 --> 00:11:21.920 align:middle line:84% And then he went back 10 years later in 1923 00:11:21.920 --> 00:11:24.640 align:middle line:84% and he said, in 20 years, textbooks 00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:27.490 align:middle line:84% will be entirely replaced by filmstrips. 00:11:27.490 --> 00:11:31.480 align:middle line:84% I think you can find many similar kinds of arguments 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:32.980 align:middle line:90% that are made today. 00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:36.700 align:middle line:84% I think you will not have a hard time finding people who tell you 00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:39.130 align:middle line:84% that the old fashioned techniques are only 2% 00:11:39.130 --> 00:11:42.130 align:middle line:84% efficient, but the new ones will be 100% efficient. 00:11:42.130 --> 00:11:43.190 align:middle line:90% So that's the promise. 00:11:43.190 --> 00:11:45.980 align:middle line:84% The promise is that we could do substantially better than we're 00:11:45.980 --> 00:11:49.400 align:middle line:84% doing right now if we think about implementing 00:11:49.400 --> 00:11:53.480 align:middle line:84% all of these different kinds of technologies. 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.850 align:middle line:84% So an intuition that you can develop 00:11:55.850 --> 00:12:00.560 align:middle line:84% is that this is a century old enterprise. 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:03.860 align:middle line:84% For the last 100, 110 years, people 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:06.110 align:middle line:84% have thought, how can we take analog technologies 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:07.640 align:middle line:84% and eventually digital technologies 00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:10.520 align:middle line:84% bring them into schools to improve learning? 00:12:10.520 --> 00:12:13.260 align:middle line:84% There are millions of people who work in education. 00:12:13.260 --> 00:12:16.130 align:middle line:84% Many of them are very, very smart. 00:12:16.130 --> 00:12:19.640 align:middle line:84% From the earliest-- you read a little bit about personal 00:12:19.640 --> 00:12:22.657 align:middle line:84% computers, the kind of from the '70s and '80s, the Apple II plus 00:12:22.657 --> 00:12:24.990 align:middle line:84% kind of the generation of computers that I grew up with. 00:12:24.990 --> 00:12:28.190 align:middle line:84% But that's actually, like, 20 years into the game. 00:12:28.190 --> 00:12:32.060 align:middle line:84% From the moment people built computers the size of this room, 00:12:32.060 --> 00:12:34.395 align:middle line:84% computer scientists, educators, learning scientists 00:12:34.395 --> 00:12:36.020 align:middle line:84% partnered together to try to figure out 00:12:36.020 --> 00:12:38.430 align:middle line:84% if there's some way to use computers to teach people. 00:12:38.430 --> 00:12:41.190 align:middle line:84% So just compute, not even all these other radio, 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:42.210 align:middle line:90% film, other things. 00:12:42.210 --> 00:12:45.300 align:middle line:84% Computing alone is like a 70 year enterprise 00:12:45.300 --> 00:12:46.810 align:middle line:90% of trying to improve schools. 00:12:46.810 --> 00:12:49.500 align:middle line:84% There are lots of things that we've tried and learned 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:50.350 align:middle line:90% in 70 years. 00:12:50.350 --> 00:12:53.250 align:middle line:84% So one intuition that I hope you will take away from this class 00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:56.310 align:middle line:84% is that when you're thinking about an education technology 00:12:56.310 --> 00:12:58.860 align:middle line:84% problem of any form or type, about a design 00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:01.330 align:middle line:84% problem, an implementation problem, a policy problem, 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:03.000 align:middle line:84% you should think to yourself, we've 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.330 align:middle line:84% probably have done something like this before. 00:13:06.330 --> 00:13:09.790 align:middle line:84% There is nothing that is so new, so utterly different, 00:13:09.790 --> 00:13:11.910 align:middle line:84% that there aren't cognate examples that 00:13:11.910 --> 00:13:15.300 align:middle line:84% could help us think through whatever these challenges are. 00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:19.150 align:middle line:84% Let's think about a couple of these stakeholders-- 00:13:19.150 --> 00:13:22.320 align:middle line:84% which stakeholders seem to appear pretty much 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.810 align:middle line:90% in all of them? 00:13:24.810 --> 00:13:28.098 align:middle line:84% Who seem to be universal stakeholders? 00:13:28.098 --> 00:13:28.890 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Teachers. 00:13:28.890 --> 00:13:29.848 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Teachers. 00:13:29.848 --> 00:13:32.070 align:middle line:84% Let's start with them, because they're the best. 00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:33.730 align:middle line:90% I love teachers. 00:13:33.730 --> 00:13:36.990 align:middle line:84% I mean, definitely one of the reasons why I do what I do 00:13:36.990 --> 00:13:38.870 align:middle line:84% is I just think teachers are great. 00:13:38.870 --> 00:13:41.940 align:middle line:90% 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:46.971 align:middle line:84% What kinds of things get teachers excited? 00:13:46.971 --> 00:13:49.900 align:middle line:84% If you want to get a teacher using education technology, 00:13:49.900 --> 00:13:52.290 align:middle line:84% what are the felt needs that they 00:13:52.290 --> 00:13:54.550 align:middle line:84% have that are going to be really important to them? 00:13:54.550 --> 00:13:56.280 align:middle line:84% This is one that I think will be pretty consistent 00:13:56.280 --> 00:13:57.630 align:middle line:84% across a bunch of these, but we can see 00:13:57.630 --> 00:13:58.605 align:middle line:90% if there are differences too. 00:13:58.605 --> 00:14:00.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Reducing their workload. 00:14:00.190 --> 00:14:02.530 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: OK, good I love it. 00:14:02.530 --> 00:14:05.370 align:middle line:90% Reducing workload. 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:08.072 align:middle line:84% Why is that so important to teachers? 00:14:08.072 --> 00:14:09.780 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Just because they have so much. 00:14:09.780 --> 00:14:11.363 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: They have so much to do. 00:14:11.363 --> 00:14:13.770 align:middle line:84% These are not people who spend a bunch of time sitting 00:14:13.770 --> 00:14:16.470 align:middle line:84% around waiting for the phone to ring or something like that. 00:14:16.470 --> 00:14:18.390 align:middle line:84% Teacher workload in the United States 00:14:18.390 --> 00:14:21.090 align:middle line:84% is actually, in certain ways, much higher 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:23.110 align:middle line:84% than in other comparable OECD countries. 00:14:23.110 --> 00:14:25.235 align:middle line:84% So OECD is the Organization of Economic Cooperative 00:14:25.235 --> 00:14:26.610 align:middle line:84% Development, something like that. 00:14:26.610 --> 00:14:28.785 align:middle line:84% It's like rich countries, 30 or 40 rich countries. 00:14:28.785 --> 00:14:30.660 align:middle line:84% American teachers, compared to our colleagues 00:14:30.660 --> 00:14:33.960 align:middle line:84% in other countries, spend more time in front of students 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:36.570 align:middle line:84% actually directly teaching than in many other places. 00:14:36.570 --> 00:14:39.118 align:middle line:84% So many other countries in the world, a full time 00:14:39.118 --> 00:14:41.410 align:middle line:84% licensed teacher would have more collaborative planning 00:14:41.410 --> 00:14:43.820 align:middle line:84% time, more grading time, other kinds of things like that. 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:45.653 align:middle line:84% So US teachers, compared to their colleagues 00:14:45.653 --> 00:14:49.120 align:middle line:84% around the world, are behind the ball on having time anyway. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.110 align:middle line:84% Reducing workload is something they care about. 00:14:51.110 --> 00:14:52.788 align:middle line:90% What else do they care about? 00:14:52.788 --> 00:14:54.830 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It has to spark the student's interest. 00:14:54.830 --> 00:14:55.180 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:14:55.180 --> 00:14:56.790 align:middle line:84% So they don't want kids to be bored. 00:14:56.790 --> 00:15:00.313 align:middle line:90% 00:15:00.313 --> 00:15:02.230 align:middle line:84% One of their core interests is, how am I going 00:15:02.230 --> 00:15:03.380 align:middle line:90% to keep these folks motivated? 00:15:03.380 --> 00:15:04.280 align:middle line:84% How am I going to keep them learning? 00:15:04.280 --> 00:15:05.680 align:middle line:90% What else do they care about? 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:08.180 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They care about it being actually good quality. 00:15:08.180 --> 00:15:09.138 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: OK, good. 00:15:09.138 --> 00:15:13.250 align:middle line:84% So it's really important that learning goes up, 00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:18.220 align:middle line:84% that quality is high, that teachers 00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:20.540 align:middle line:84% take their professionalism very, very seriously 00:15:20.540 --> 00:15:24.100 align:middle line:84% and they're held accountable in various kinds of ways. 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.260 align:middle line:84% And this could be different across different kinds 00:15:26.260 --> 00:15:27.160 align:middle line:90% of teachers. 00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:29.575 align:middle line:84% So in the United States, we primarily-- 00:15:29.575 --> 00:15:32.390 align:middle line:84% we test-- in certain kinds of ways, 00:15:32.390 --> 00:15:34.520 align:middle line:84% we test way more than every other country does. 00:15:34.520 --> 00:15:36.550 align:middle line:84% There's no country that tests all 00:15:36.550 --> 00:15:38.860 align:middle line:84% of their students every year, third to eighth grade, 00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:40.098 align:middle line:90% in both reading and math. 00:15:40.098 --> 00:15:42.140 align:middle line:84% Most other countries are like, if you tested them 00:15:42.140 --> 00:15:43.723 align:middle line:84% in the third grade, you would probably 00:15:43.723 --> 00:15:44.795 align:middle line:90% wait a couple years to-- 00:15:44.795 --> 00:15:45.840 align:middle line:90% I mean, you give them-- 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.360 align:middle line:84% but you give them assessments or exams or whatever, 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:50.750 align:middle line:84% but you don't give them big national tests. 00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:55.040 align:middle line:84% And so if you are a teacher of reading or of math, 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:57.830 align:middle line:84% your test scores are scrutinized in a way 00:15:57.830 --> 00:16:01.500 align:middle line:84% that a science teacher, art teacher, a health teacher, 00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:04.230 align:middle line:84% other kinds of teachers are not similarly scrutinized. 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:07.350 align:middle line:84% So within, there can be different kinds of incentives. 00:16:07.350 --> 00:16:09.710 align:middle line:84% One of the things I always enjoyed about being a history 00:16:09.710 --> 00:16:12.500 align:middle line:84% teacher is that there were never really tests 00:16:12.500 --> 00:16:15.525 align:middle line:84% that I were preparing my students for in the same way-- 00:16:15.525 --> 00:16:18.150 align:middle line:84% I taught in private school, but even my math teacher colleagues 00:16:18.150 --> 00:16:20.070 align:middle line:84% felt like they were preparing students for the SAT, 00:16:20.070 --> 00:16:21.360 align:middle line:90% for the APs, things like that. 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:23.210 align:middle line:84% That was never really my concern. 00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:26.580 align:middle line:84% As a result, I had to spend less time thinking to myself, 00:16:26.580 --> 00:16:28.890 align:middle line:84% this new thing I'm bringing into this classroom, 00:16:28.890 --> 00:16:32.450 align:middle line:84% is this going to prepare people for some kind of nearly 00:16:32.450 --> 00:16:33.870 align:middle line:90% universal testing experiences? 00:16:33.870 --> 00:16:35.150 align:middle line:84% Like my math teacher colleagues always 00:16:35.150 --> 00:16:36.400 align:middle line:90% had to be thinking about that. 00:16:36.400 --> 00:16:39.652 align:middle line:84% I could be like, well, Tibetan Buddhism isn't on the test, 00:16:39.652 --> 00:16:40.360 align:middle line:90% but it's awesome. 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:42.160 align:middle line:90% Let's study it. 00:16:42.160 --> 00:16:43.480 align:middle line:90% So that's different. 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:43.980 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:44.897 align:middle line:90% Other kinds of things. 00:16:44.897 --> 00:16:46.230 align:middle line:90% Yeah, Tai and then Sabrina. 00:16:46.230 --> 00:16:48.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Accessibility and inclusion. 00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:50.520 align:middle line:84% So to make sure that no one's left out 00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:53.080 align:middle line:84% from your diverse group of learners from any technology. 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:53.872 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:16:53.872 --> 00:16:55.920 align:middle line:90% 00:16:55.920 --> 00:17:00.960 align:middle line:84% And that would not be a universal concern 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:02.370 align:middle line:90% across these decades. 00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:05.490 align:middle line:90% 00:17:05.490 --> 00:17:08.790 align:middle line:84% It would have been considered much more common to say, 00:17:08.790 --> 00:17:12.300 align:middle line:84% certain people have totally unsolvable learning 00:17:12.300 --> 00:17:15.480 align:middle line:84% disabilities, and societies should tend to their welfare 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.160 align:middle line:84% in some other kind of way in the '30s and '40s and '50s. 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.368 align:middle line:84% And then somewhere in the middle of the 20th century, 00:17:20.368 --> 00:17:22.950 align:middle line:84% we passed the Americans with Disabilities Act, 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:25.890 align:middle line:84% which totally transformed our thoughts and in fact, 00:17:25.890 --> 00:17:30.060 align:middle line:84% created a federal right for people to have a way of-- 00:17:30.060 --> 00:17:32.670 align:middle line:84% a fair and appropriate public education. 00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:37.590 align:middle line:84% And I would also just say, as society has gotten more 00:17:37.590 --> 00:17:40.680 align:middle line:84% interested in values of inclusion generally, 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.710 align:middle line:84% what people would have worried about with inclusion with 00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:46.560 align:middle line:84% personal computers in the 1980s is very different from what they 00:17:46.560 --> 00:17:48.240 align:middle line:84% would be worried about with the computers that are getting 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.782 align:middle line:84% in front of their students right now. 00:17:49.782 --> 00:17:50.610 align:middle line:90% That's a great one. 00:17:50.610 --> 00:17:54.012 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'm going to say being able to track student progress. 00:17:54.012 --> 00:17:55.220 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Track progress. 00:17:55.220 --> 00:17:58.050 align:middle line:90% 00:17:58.050 --> 00:18:01.090 align:middle line:90% Assessment. 00:18:01.090 --> 00:18:01.590 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:18:01.590 --> 00:18:02.250 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:18:02.250 --> 00:18:03.167 align:middle line:90% Actually, interesting. 00:18:03.167 --> 00:18:07.350 align:middle line:84% Over this century, some of the earliest technologies 00:18:07.350 --> 00:18:09.340 align:middle line:84% had nothing to do with that, radio and film. 00:18:09.340 --> 00:18:10.882 align:middle line:84% But one of the very earliest ones you 00:18:10.882 --> 00:18:14.190 align:middle line:84% read about, physical teaching machines-- 00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:17.280 align:middle line:84% and hopefully, I mean, you saw some pictures. 00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:19.400 align:middle line:84% I was just actually looking today. 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:21.900 align:middle line:84% Sidney Pressey is one of the people who Audrey Waters writes 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.360 align:middle line:84% about, and there's somebody on YouTube 00:18:24.360 --> 00:18:28.243 align:middle line:84% who had posted this fabulous two minute clip of him demonstrating 00:18:28.243 --> 00:18:29.410 align:middle line:90% one of his teacher machines. 00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:31.202 align:middle line:84% And unfortunately, that account was deleted 00:18:31.202 --> 00:18:33.300 align:middle line:90% before this year's class. 00:18:33.300 --> 00:18:35.050 align:middle line:84% Maybe I'll send you a version of it later. 00:18:35.050 --> 00:18:36.508 align:middle line:84% The only version of the video still 00:18:36.508 --> 00:18:41.210 align:middle line:84% exists is one in which Anant Agarwal's voice is superimposed 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:41.900 align:middle line:90% of it. 00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:45.110 align:middle line:84% So somebody took an audio clip of Anant Agarwal talking 00:18:45.110 --> 00:18:48.383 align:middle line:84% about the capacities of edx and played the audio 00:18:48.383 --> 00:18:50.300 align:middle line:84% over Sidney Pressey demonstrating the teaching 00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:51.380 align:middle line:90% machine. 00:18:51.380 --> 00:18:54.990 align:middle line:84% And it's a little too close for comfort, 00:18:54.990 --> 00:18:56.430 align:middle line:84% even though it's a century apart. 00:18:56.430 --> 00:18:59.510 align:middle line:84% But teaching machines, they were kind of like typewriters. 00:18:59.510 --> 00:19:01.350 align:middle line:84% They had these four keys that were on them, 00:19:01.350 --> 00:19:04.400 align:middle line:84% and so they would display one question at a time. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.680 align:middle line:84% It was like pre-Scantron technology, 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.010 align:middle line:84% and then there would be one of four possible answers. 00:19:10.010 --> 00:19:11.940 align:middle line:84% It's one of the earliest versions. 00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:14.505 align:middle line:84% It had a little bank of mints in the back of them, 00:19:14.505 --> 00:19:16.130 align:middle line:84% and so when you press the right button, 00:19:16.130 --> 00:19:18.422 align:middle line:84% a little candy or something would roll out and give you 00:19:18.422 --> 00:19:22.505 align:middle line:84% a little behaviorist positive reinforcement kinds of things. 00:19:22.505 --> 00:19:25.560 align:middle line:84% But one of the main virtues of it was like, oh, man, 00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:28.700 align:middle line:84% if we could get enough people these things, 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:31.925 align:middle line:84% then we could assess their progress almost constantly. 00:19:31.925 --> 00:19:33.300 align:middle line:84% We'd know exactly where they are. 00:19:33.300 --> 00:19:36.390 align:middle line:90% So this idea of tracking-- 00:19:36.390 --> 00:19:38.180 align:middle line:84% tracking student progress is something 00:19:38.180 --> 00:19:40.782 align:middle line:84% that's like particularly urgently concerned 00:19:40.782 --> 00:19:43.490 align:middle line:84% in our data driven world but was still something that people were 00:19:43.490 --> 00:19:46.010 align:middle line:90% interested in a century ago. 00:19:46.010 --> 00:19:47.290 align:middle line:90% What are some of the-- 00:19:47.290 --> 00:19:48.540 align:middle line:90% I'll just put them under here. 00:19:48.540 --> 00:19:52.140 align:middle line:84% What are some of the would-be disincentives for teachers? 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:53.900 align:middle line:84% What are some things that if you were 00:19:53.900 --> 00:19:55.958 align:middle line:84% trying to get teachers to adopt new technologies, 00:19:55.958 --> 00:19:58.500 align:middle line:84% would be the sorts of things that would be barriers for them? 00:19:58.500 --> 00:19:59.390 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Complexity. 00:19:59.390 --> 00:20:02.150 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Why complexity? 00:20:02.150 --> 00:20:06.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's some teachers who are more able to adapt 00:20:06.080 --> 00:20:08.330 align:middle line:84% to new technologies, and some teachers who just cannot 00:20:08.330 --> 00:20:10.868 align:middle line:84% understand how certain technologies might work. 00:20:10.868 --> 00:20:11.660 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:16.130 align:middle line:84% So I think that aptitude is right. 00:20:16.130 --> 00:20:19.663 align:middle line:84% If you go into teaching, there are probably two things 00:20:19.663 --> 00:20:20.580 align:middle line:90% that really drive you. 00:20:20.580 --> 00:20:22.653 align:middle line:84% One is you love the content that you teach. 00:20:22.653 --> 00:20:24.320 align:middle line:84% That's more true for secondary educators 00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:26.630 align:middle line:84% than for early elementary educators, but probably true 00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:27.180 align:middle line:90% for them. 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:28.958 align:middle line:90% And you probably love people. 00:20:28.958 --> 00:20:30.500 align:middle line:84% Very difficult to be a teacher if you 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:33.270 align:middle line:84% don't find people, especially young people, pretty engaging. 00:20:33.270 --> 00:20:35.323 align:middle line:84% The kinds of folks who find people engaging, 00:20:35.323 --> 00:20:36.240 align:middle line:90% they might just find-- 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.640 align:middle line:84% it's not 100% overlap, but there's just technology is less 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:39.130 align:middle line:90% engaging. 00:20:39.130 --> 00:20:40.560 align:middle line:84% They didn't want to spend their life sitting in front 00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:41.810 align:middle line:90% of a computer typing in stuff. 00:20:41.810 --> 00:20:45.150 align:middle line:84% They wanted to be interacting with people. 00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:46.980 align:middle line:84% But the other thing I would say is 00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:50.400 align:middle line:84% that there are many educators who spent a lot of time 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.047 align:middle line:84% polishing their craft and are good at teaching the way they're 00:20:53.047 --> 00:20:55.630 align:middle line:84% teaching right now and have been teaching for the last decade. 00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:58.240 align:middle line:84% And so when they see a new piece of technology come in, 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.420 align:middle line:84% they're thinking to themselves, is this thing really 00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:02.670 align:middle line:84% going to be better than the thing that I've been doing 00:21:02.670 --> 00:21:06.120 align:middle line:90% and got good at for a while? 00:21:06.120 --> 00:21:08.220 align:middle line:84% I'm going to have to lose something when 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.700 align:middle line:90% I integrate this new thing? 00:21:09.700 --> 00:21:12.220 align:middle line:84% Like any technology adoption involves loss. 00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:13.360 align:middle line:90% Any change involves loss. 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:15.390 align:middle line:90% You got to give something up. 00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:19.120 align:middle line:84% That thing I'm giving up, it may be pretty good. 00:21:19.120 --> 00:21:22.272 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of people think that older teachers are 00:21:22.272 --> 00:21:24.480 align:middle line:84% less likely to adopt technologies because they're not 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.300 align:middle line:90% technology fluent. 00:21:25.300 --> 00:21:27.455 align:middle line:84% But having worked with many, many teachers, 00:21:27.455 --> 00:21:28.830 align:middle line:84% I'm really convinced that there's 00:21:28.830 --> 00:21:31.457 align:middle line:84% no relationship between age and technology adoption. 00:21:31.457 --> 00:21:33.540 align:middle line:84% There are young teachers that are super interested 00:21:33.540 --> 00:21:34.810 align:middle line:84% and there are young teachers who hate it, 00:21:34.810 --> 00:21:37.630 align:middle line:84% their old teachers who are like, I'm pretty good at what I do. 00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:39.720 align:middle line:84% And there are old teachers who are old teachers because they've 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:41.178 align:middle line:84% spent the last 20 years going, it's 00:21:41.178 --> 00:21:42.430 align:middle line:90% really fun to try new things. 00:21:42.430 --> 00:21:44.050 align:middle line:84% It's really fun to try to get better. 00:21:44.050 --> 00:21:46.150 align:middle line:84% What was one of your disincentives, Sabrina? 00:21:46.150 --> 00:21:47.770 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Oh, student distraction. 00:21:47.770 --> 00:21:50.160 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Great. 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.620 align:middle line:84% And obviously, some of these technologies 00:21:52.620 --> 00:21:54.110 align:middle line:84% are more akin to that than others. 00:21:54.110 --> 00:21:56.610 align:middle line:84% Like, if you're playing a film strip or something like that, 00:21:56.610 --> 00:21:59.520 align:middle line:84% you probably have kids' attention or things like that. 00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:02.380 align:middle line:84% But certainly as we get into computers, 00:22:02.380 --> 00:22:06.630 align:middle line:84% anything in which the attention is-- where each student is 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:08.670 align:middle line:84% responsible for their own attention 00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:11.640 align:middle line:84% is something that can raise concerns 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:13.320 align:middle line:84% for teachers, because kids like to be 00:22:13.320 --> 00:22:15.450 align:middle line:90% attend to all kinds of things. 00:22:15.450 --> 00:22:17.638 align:middle line:84% What other things would be disincentives? 00:22:17.638 --> 00:22:19.180 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Like, teacher displacement. 00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:20.972 align:middle line:84% Like they feel like they're being replaced. 00:22:20.972 --> 00:22:22.770 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yep. 00:22:22.770 --> 00:22:29.410 align:middle line:84% So teachers are a profession that protects their job security 00:22:29.410 --> 00:22:30.910 align:middle line:84% with a license and things like that, 00:22:30.910 --> 00:22:32.327 align:middle line:84% like lots of other professions do. 00:22:32.327 --> 00:22:36.950 align:middle line:84% Like doctors and pharmacists and lawyers and all kinds of people. 00:22:36.950 --> 00:22:38.450 align:middle line:84% And yeah, most professionals are not 00:22:38.450 --> 00:22:39.890 align:middle line:84% super enthusiastic about technology 00:22:39.890 --> 00:22:41.930 align:middle line:84% that has the capacity to replace the functions that they're 00:22:41.930 --> 00:22:42.430 align:middle line:90% doing. 00:22:42.430 --> 00:22:44.880 align:middle line:90% 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:45.380 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:48.320 align:middle line:84% Let's think about some of these other-- 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:49.980 align:middle line:90% so this is a good one. 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:51.800 align:middle line:84% So again, we can think about any time 00:22:51.800 --> 00:22:53.880 align:middle line:84% a new technology is being introduced, 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:55.480 align:middle line:90% is it going to reduce workload? 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:56.730 align:middle line:90% Is it going to spark interest? 00:22:56.730 --> 00:22:58.453 align:middle line:84% Will it spark interest in the first three 00:22:58.453 --> 00:23:00.120 align:middle line:84% weeks of this new technology being here? 00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:02.420 align:middle line:84% Will it spark interest two years after the technology 00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:03.330 align:middle line:90% has been introduced? 00:23:03.330 --> 00:23:04.860 align:middle line:84% Is it going to be of high quality? 00:23:04.860 --> 00:23:07.040 align:middle line:84% Do I have control over the quality? 00:23:07.040 --> 00:23:09.660 align:middle line:84% Accessible, inclusion, is it going to improve learning? 00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:11.250 align:middle line:84% Will it be able to track assessment? 00:23:11.250 --> 00:23:12.510 align:middle line:90% Is it too complex? 00:23:12.510 --> 00:23:14.398 align:middle line:90% Will it distract my students? 00:23:14.398 --> 00:23:16.190 align:middle line:84% Is it going to displace essential functions 00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:18.200 align:middle line:90% that I perform? 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.750 align:middle line:84% That is a good set of questions that you could ask, 00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:23.840 align:middle line:84% Cuban does ask in some ways in radio and film and television 00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:25.640 align:middle line:84% and teaching machines and computers. 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.038 align:middle line:84% And you could ask them of AI and Khan Academy and iCivics 00:23:29.038 --> 00:23:31.580 align:middle line:84% and anything else that comes along, like, these are all still 00:23:31.580 --> 00:23:33.350 align:middle line:90% good questions to ask. 00:23:33.350 --> 00:23:36.950 align:middle line:84% Let's try to hit now a bunch of these other stakeholders. 00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:39.270 align:middle line:84% Who are some of the stakeholders that surprised you? 00:23:39.270 --> 00:23:40.550 align:middle line:84% Who are the ones that you were like, whoa, I 00:23:40.550 --> 00:23:43.175 align:middle line:84% wouldn't have thought of this in terms of education technology? 00:23:43.175 --> 00:23:46.400 align:middle line:90% 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.030 align:middle line:90% Weird ones or unique ones? 00:23:50.030 --> 00:23:51.470 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I mean, I thought-- 00:23:51.470 --> 00:23:53.520 align:middle line:84% my group was the teacher machines, 00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:55.610 align:middle line:84% and it was the psychologists that 00:23:55.610 --> 00:24:01.730 align:middle line:84% come up with the ideas that go into how these technologies 00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:04.490 align:middle line:90% are-- or what they're based on. 00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:06.320 align:middle line:84% I guess I just never really thought 00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:10.130 align:middle line:84% like, oh, it is the people who thought of constructivism 00:24:10.130 --> 00:24:12.350 align:middle line:84% and situated learning that has then 00:24:12.350 --> 00:24:15.200 align:middle line:84% sparked this interest in everything else. 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.020 align:middle line:84% And so it's like people have ideas but all of that 00:24:18.020 --> 00:24:20.370 align:middle line:84% initially stems from these two thoughts of learning. 00:24:20.370 --> 00:24:20.660 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:21.160 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.855 align:middle line:84% So people have ideas about what good teaching and learning 00:24:23.855 --> 00:24:24.480 align:middle line:90% should be like. 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.245 align:middle line:84% Those ideas are in some ways they 00:24:26.245 --> 00:24:28.620 align:middle line:84% seem pretty universal because we can find them going back 00:24:28.620 --> 00:24:29.287 align:middle line:90% through history. 00:24:29.287 --> 00:24:32.200 align:middle line:84% But they're always being reinterpreted, updated, 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:33.510 align:middle line:90% things like that. 00:24:33.510 --> 00:24:35.430 align:middle line:84% Sidney Pressey is in this moment where 00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:39.827 align:middle line:84% behaviorism is an incredibly prominent set of ideas. 00:24:39.827 --> 00:24:41.910 align:middle line:84% Behaviorism, you're probably all familiar with of. 00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:44.850 align:middle line:84% You punish people when they do things wrong and you reward them 00:24:44.850 --> 00:24:46.710 align:middle line:84% when you do things right and you condition 00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:48.330 align:middle line:90% their behavior that way. 00:24:48.330 --> 00:24:50.520 align:middle line:84% And so he creates a physical machine 00:24:50.520 --> 00:24:53.490 align:middle line:90% that embodies those ideas. 00:24:53.490 --> 00:24:57.240 align:middle line:84% and then Seymour Papert will come along and be 00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.490 align:middle line:84% like, oh, man, why can't we learn math the way 00:24:59.490 --> 00:25:02.880 align:middle line:84% that kids who go to visit France learn French? 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.810 align:middle line:84% Why can't we make a thing which is mathland? 00:25:04.810 --> 00:25:06.512 align:middle line:84% I bet Logo could be like mathland. 00:25:06.512 --> 00:25:08.970 align:middle line:84% He has a set of ideas about what good teaching and learning 00:25:08.970 --> 00:25:13.560 align:middle line:84% looks like, and he incorporates those ideas and people become 00:25:13.560 --> 00:25:16.230 align:middle line:90% partisans of these ideas. 00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:19.470 align:middle line:84% Probably the most prominent partisan 00:25:19.470 --> 00:25:21.390 align:middle line:84% of education technology in the United States 00:25:21.390 --> 00:25:23.640 align:middle line:84% today is Sal Khan, who is someone 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:27.390 align:middle line:84% who had a very particular idea, a clear vision of what 00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:29.338 align:middle line:84% personalized learning would look like. 00:25:29.338 --> 00:25:31.630 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you know about his personal experience, 00:25:31.630 --> 00:25:33.838 align:middle line:84% but he was a hedge fund person or something like that 00:25:33.838 --> 00:25:37.150 align:middle line:84% and his niece was having trouble with math, 00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:39.510 align:middle line:84% and he started tutoring his niece in math. 00:25:39.510 --> 00:25:40.427 align:middle line:90% He did it over videos. 00:25:40.427 --> 00:25:43.093 align:middle line:84% And so he put the videos online and people started watching them 00:25:43.093 --> 00:25:44.910 align:middle line:84% and go, wow, what if every person could 00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:47.580 align:middle line:84% have this little like, personalized tutor? 00:25:47.580 --> 00:25:49.530 align:middle line:84% What if each person could study math 00:25:49.530 --> 00:25:51.540 align:middle line:90% at their own individual pace? 00:25:51.540 --> 00:25:54.555 align:middle line:84% And then he built this whole enterprise and continues to-- 00:25:54.555 --> 00:25:56.910 align:middle line:84% he's incredibly enthusiastic about AI 00:25:56.910 --> 00:25:58.950 align:middle line:84% right now because, oh, man, instead 00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:02.580 align:middle line:84% of just having me record a tutor for each person, what 00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:06.300 align:middle line:84% if the GPT can generate personalized text related 00:26:06.300 --> 00:26:09.000 align:middle line:84% to each individual person or something like that? 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.630 align:middle line:84% And those ideas, it's not like they're just 00:26:12.630 --> 00:26:13.930 align:middle line:90% dropped in the world. 00:26:13.930 --> 00:26:15.073 align:middle line:90% They're advocated for. 00:26:15.073 --> 00:26:17.490 align:middle line:84% Did you all see the New York Times-- was it New York Times 00:26:17.490 --> 00:26:18.282 align:middle line:90% or Washington Post? 00:26:18.282 --> 00:26:21.890 align:middle line:84% Somebody wrote an op ed about Sal Khan and AI. 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:24.390 align:middle line:84% It was either in the Washington Post and the New York Times, 00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:26.330 align:middle line:84% but it was basically something like, this 00:26:26.330 --> 00:26:28.520 align:middle line:84% is the first AI that your kid will love 00:26:28.520 --> 00:26:31.490 align:middle line:84% or something like that, and it's basically just celebratory piece 00:26:31.490 --> 00:26:33.530 align:middle line:90% of Khanmigo. 00:26:33.530 --> 00:26:34.260 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:26:34.260 --> 00:26:35.930 align:middle line:90% So that's an unusual group. 00:26:35.930 --> 00:26:41.777 align:middle line:84% And those groups, I mean, today, Sal Khan goes on The Today Show 00:26:41.777 --> 00:26:43.110 align:middle line:90% and tells people what he thinks. 00:26:43.110 --> 00:26:45.777 align:middle line:84% He goes to investor conferences and tells people what he thinks. 00:26:45.777 --> 00:26:46.582 align:middle line:90% He goes to schools. 00:26:46.582 --> 00:26:48.290 align:middle line:84% Harvard and MIT bring him in every couple 00:26:48.290 --> 00:26:49.540 align:middle line:90% of years and things like that. 00:26:49.540 --> 00:26:53.005 align:middle line:84% So these folks advocate for their ideas. 00:26:53.005 --> 00:26:54.630 align:middle line:84% The ideas don't just fall from the sky. 00:26:54.630 --> 00:26:58.730 align:middle line:84% There's a stakeholder who is advancing those ideas. 00:26:58.730 --> 00:27:01.442 align:middle line:84% Who are some other stakeholders that seem important? 00:27:01.442 --> 00:27:03.650 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I thought it was weird that you could think 00:27:03.650 --> 00:27:06.950 align:middle line:84% about manufacturers and I mean, the people who 00:27:06.950 --> 00:27:10.170 align:middle line:84% produce transistors, which is like TSMC and ASML, 00:27:10.170 --> 00:27:13.040 align:middle line:84% because if a bunch of schools across America all of a sudden 00:27:13.040 --> 00:27:15.410 align:middle line:84% need thousands and thousands of iPads 00:27:15.410 --> 00:27:18.620 align:middle line:84% and you have this big backlog request on M2 chips 00:27:18.620 --> 00:27:20.130 align:middle line:84% or whatever is in them right now, 00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:22.250 align:middle line:84% and then someone like TSMC, the only people 00:27:22.250 --> 00:27:24.650 align:middle line:84% who really produce transistors, has this huge float 00:27:24.650 --> 00:27:25.860 align:middle line:90% and make a lot of money. 00:27:25.860 --> 00:27:26.902 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah, yeah. 00:27:26.902 --> 00:27:30.470 align:middle line:84% That people become-- that those folks then organize themselves 00:27:30.470 --> 00:27:34.580 align:middle line:84% into trade groups and they go to-- 00:27:34.580 --> 00:27:36.960 align:middle line:84% how do they advance their interests? 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:41.090 align:middle line:84% They do things like give some of their materials away 00:27:41.090 --> 00:27:42.390 align:middle line:90% for schools, demonstration. 00:27:42.390 --> 00:27:45.110 align:middle line:84% They create training programs for their materials 00:27:45.110 --> 00:27:46.340 align:middle line:90% and share them. 00:27:46.340 --> 00:27:48.290 align:middle line:84% They have sales and marketing people 00:27:48.290 --> 00:27:51.020 align:middle line:84% that go around and get people advanced about that. 00:27:51.020 --> 00:27:55.220 align:middle line:84% They sponsor conferences, maybe that they're not even 00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:56.550 align:middle line:90% directly advertising for. 00:27:56.550 --> 00:27:58.910 align:middle line:84% They're just their presence to try 00:27:58.910 --> 00:28:04.460 align:middle line:84% to encourage teachers and other sorts of groups to be behind it. 00:28:04.460 --> 00:28:07.490 align:middle line:84% We spend an enormous amount of money on education every year 00:28:07.490 --> 00:28:10.640 align:middle line:84% in the United States, and the biggest chunk of that money 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.990 align:middle line:84% goes to pay the salaries of the people who do stuff. 00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:14.448 align:middle line:84% And another big chunk of that money 00:28:14.448 --> 00:28:16.010 align:middle line:84% goes to heating and air conditioning, 00:28:16.010 --> 00:28:18.360 align:middle line:84% for which there are people who are selling those things. 00:28:18.360 --> 00:28:22.160 align:middle line:84% But basically the third biggest bucket after those two 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:24.930 align:middle line:84% is the stuff we buy in schools to help people learn. 00:28:24.930 --> 00:28:29.730 align:middle line:84% And so yeah, there are advocates who are-- 00:28:29.730 --> 00:28:33.420 align:middle line:84% the folks who are not neutral in these things. 00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:35.407 align:middle line:84% Apple computer has been particularly prominent 00:28:35.407 --> 00:28:36.990 align:middle line:84% over the last bunch of years in trying 00:28:36.990 --> 00:28:39.570 align:middle line:84% to craft a vision of itself as a company that 00:28:39.570 --> 00:28:43.360 align:middle line:84% has a particular role inside colleges, universities, schools, 00:28:43.360 --> 00:28:45.913 align:middle line:90% those kinds of things. 00:28:45.913 --> 00:28:47.830 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think something that surprised me, 00:28:47.830 --> 00:28:49.288 align:middle line:84% but maybe it's not that surprising, 00:28:49.288 --> 00:28:52.980 align:middle line:84% was that governments as a whole and leaders 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:56.760 align:middle line:84% in between governments, because in the class we took 00:28:56.760 --> 00:28:58.810 align:middle line:84% last semester intro to education, 00:28:58.810 --> 00:29:00.450 align:middle line:84% we talked a lot about Americanism 00:29:00.450 --> 00:29:02.217 align:middle line:84% and how it's so linked with education. 00:29:02.217 --> 00:29:04.050 align:middle line:84% And I know it's such a big thing to be like, 00:29:04.050 --> 00:29:07.290 align:middle line:84% oh, this country has the biggest-- or the highest SAT 00:29:07.290 --> 00:29:08.963 align:middle line:84% score on average or this many people 00:29:08.963 --> 00:29:10.630 align:middle line:84% use Khan Academy or something like that. 00:29:10.630 --> 00:29:13.590 align:middle line:84% So sometimes it really is just like governments 00:29:13.590 --> 00:29:15.510 align:middle line:84% competing against each other and trying 00:29:15.510 --> 00:29:17.117 align:middle line:84% to see who's the best of the best. 00:29:17.117 --> 00:29:17.950 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Great. 00:29:17.950 --> 00:29:18.870 align:middle line:84% And in the United States, when we 00:29:18.870 --> 00:29:20.623 align:middle line:84% talk about government actors, what are all 00:29:20.623 --> 00:29:22.290 align:middle line:84% the different possible government actors 00:29:22.290 --> 00:29:25.500 align:middle line:90% we might be thinking about? 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.740 align:middle line:84% So there's a US Department of Education. 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:29.690 align:middle line:90% Who else is there? 00:29:29.690 --> 00:29:32.065 align:middle line:90% 00:29:32.065 --> 00:29:33.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So local boards of education. 00:29:33.690 --> 00:29:35.815 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: So there's local boards of education. 00:29:35.815 --> 00:29:38.670 align:middle line:84% So a very unusual thing about the United States Department 00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:40.920 align:middle line:84% of Education is it is-- or the United States education 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:43.270 align:middle line:84% system is it's extremely decentralized. 00:29:43.270 --> 00:29:46.020 align:middle line:84% There are 130,000 schools and there are 13,000 school 00:29:46.020 --> 00:29:46.660 align:middle line:90% districts. 00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:48.870 align:middle line:84% The modal elected official in the United States 00:29:48.870 --> 00:29:51.315 align:middle line:90% is a school board member. 00:29:51.315 --> 00:29:53.440 align:middle line:84% If you're an elected official in the United States, 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:56.580 align:middle line:84% the thing you're most likely to be is a school board member. 00:29:56.580 --> 00:30:02.685 align:middle line:84% And school board members are interesting stakeholders. 00:30:02.685 --> 00:30:04.560 align:middle line:84% And they range from community to communities. 00:30:04.560 --> 00:30:07.410 align:middle line:84% In lots of communities, they're just a community member 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:09.690 align:middle line:84% who's particularly interested in education, 00:30:09.690 --> 00:30:13.950 align:middle line:84% but they're also people who are looking to-- 00:30:13.950 --> 00:30:15.420 align:middle line:84% it's an entry point for people who 00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:16.960 align:middle line:84% are interested in political careers. 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.752 align:middle line:84% Lots of people who are school board members 00:30:18.752 --> 00:30:21.320 align:middle line:84% go to be on state reps and other kinds of things like that. 00:30:21.320 --> 00:30:25.270 align:middle line:84% This is a particularly fecund moment 00:30:25.270 --> 00:30:31.060 align:middle line:84% for people who are politically ambitious to pursue 00:30:31.060 --> 00:30:33.640 align:middle line:84% those ambitions through the school system, 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:38.560 align:middle line:84% especially in the American right, where reform of schools 00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:41.290 align:middle line:84% has become a way to get kind of attention 00:30:41.290 --> 00:30:44.950 align:middle line:84% within the political party and things like that. 00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:48.820 align:middle line:84% And yeah, there's all kinds of towns across the country where-- 00:30:48.820 --> 00:30:51.555 align:middle line:84% and I think you get some of this is some school board is, 00:30:51.555 --> 00:30:53.680 align:middle line:84% you know what would be really great is film strips? 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:55.405 align:middle line:84% Like, let's go big on film strips. 00:30:55.405 --> 00:30:57.280 align:middle line:84% You know what would be really great is 00:30:57.280 --> 00:30:59.050 align:middle line:90% closed circuit television. 00:30:59.050 --> 00:31:02.080 align:middle line:84% Wouldn't that be a useful thing to have? 00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:04.498 align:middle line:84% Like, it's not the teachers, it's not the superintendents, 00:31:04.498 --> 00:31:06.290 align:middle line:84% it's not the people who are in the schools. 00:31:06.290 --> 00:31:08.860 align:middle line:84% It's like some community members who are like, let's do it. 00:31:08.860 --> 00:31:12.241 align:middle line:90% 00:31:12.241 --> 00:31:13.780 align:middle line:84% In the United States today, there's 00:31:13.780 --> 00:31:16.360 align:middle line:84% probably two versions of that is there are definitely 00:31:16.360 --> 00:31:21.365 align:middle line:84% school boards whose identity is shaped around being 00:31:21.365 --> 00:31:23.990 align:middle line:84% a cutting edge school in a bunch of the affluent suburban towns 00:31:23.990 --> 00:31:27.620 align:middle line:84% around Boston, like Wellesley, Newton, 00:31:27.620 --> 00:31:30.388 align:middle line:84% they want to be thought of as having really great, 00:31:30.388 --> 00:31:32.430 align:middle line:84% cutting edge, forward thinking schools, you know? 00:31:32.430 --> 00:31:34.730 align:middle line:84% Newton spent $200 million or something like that 00:31:34.730 --> 00:31:36.800 align:middle line:84% on the last high school that they built. 00:31:36.800 --> 00:31:39.680 align:middle line:84% And so it can be a way to become a school board member is 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:43.707 align:middle line:84% like, I'm going to help the school system modernize 00:31:43.707 --> 00:31:45.540 align:middle line:84% and embrace technology and things like that. 00:31:45.540 --> 00:31:46.832 align:middle line:90% There can also be the opposite. 00:31:46.832 --> 00:31:48.680 align:middle line:84% There can also be people who come in. 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:51.470 align:middle line:84% The most common is people who work for the technology 00:31:51.470 --> 00:31:55.700 align:middle line:84% industry, who are like, you have no idea how much surveillance 00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:57.410 align:middle line:90% is built into this technology. 00:31:57.410 --> 00:32:01.540 align:middle line:84% All the time when I talk to principals or superintendents 00:32:01.540 --> 00:32:04.040 align:middle line:84% who are being like, we're kind of having a hard time helping 00:32:04.040 --> 00:32:05.970 align:middle line:84% parents understand why these things would be useful. 00:32:05.970 --> 00:32:08.180 align:middle line:84% It's like someone who works for Google or Microsoft 00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:11.720 align:middle line:84% or something like that who knows the surveillance 00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:15.260 align:middle line:84% capacity of these tools and is concerned about it. 00:32:15.260 --> 00:32:15.800 align:middle line:90% Yeah? 00:32:15.800 --> 00:32:17.550 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I just kind of have an anecdote. 00:32:17.550 --> 00:32:18.480 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:18.820 align:middle line:90% Please. 00:32:18.820 --> 00:32:20.903 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I used to work in edtech and educational 00:32:20.903 --> 00:32:21.420 align:middle line:90% publishing. 00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:24.000 align:middle line:84% I worked on mostly products for the state of Florida 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.570 align:middle line:84% and really showed how much power some of these districts have. 00:32:28.570 --> 00:32:30.700 align:middle line:84% Because the school board would make the decision, 00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:33.420 align:middle line:84% there were several times where one or two districts in Florida 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:35.045 align:middle line:84% would suddenly say they need something, 00:32:35.045 --> 00:32:37.770 align:middle line:84% and that would change the entire roadmap for a product that's 00:32:37.770 --> 00:32:38.800 align:middle line:90% used nationally. 00:32:38.800 --> 00:32:40.800 align:middle line:84% So it's like you have a couple people in Florida 00:32:40.800 --> 00:32:42.520 align:middle line:84% who are like, we really need this thing. 00:32:42.520 --> 00:32:45.030 align:middle line:84% And then suddenly it's like, kids in Arkansas are also. 00:32:45.030 --> 00:32:47.720 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Are learning different. 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:49.270 align:middle line:90% This is definitely still true. 00:32:49.270 --> 00:32:51.870 align:middle line:84% It's breaking down a little bit because 00:32:51.870 --> 00:32:54.600 align:middle line:84% of the capacity for a web publishing and custom 00:32:54.600 --> 00:32:55.420 align:middle line:90% publication. 00:32:55.420 --> 00:32:57.270 align:middle line:84% But for a big chunk of what you might-- 00:32:57.270 --> 00:32:59.740 align:middle line:84% I don't know, the latter third of the 20th century, 00:32:59.740 --> 00:33:04.920 align:middle line:84% the first 10 years of the 21st century, basically, 00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.590 align:middle line:84% publishers would publish a US history book. 00:33:07.590 --> 00:33:10.950 align:middle line:84% How do they decide what to make of a US history book? 00:33:10.950 --> 00:33:14.070 align:middle line:84% You say, well, what are the most important states 00:33:14.070 --> 00:33:17.220 align:middle line:90% to sell this history book in? 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:18.178 align:middle line:90% Florida is one of them. 00:33:18.178 --> 00:33:19.178 align:middle line:90% What are the other ones? 00:33:19.178 --> 00:33:20.010 align:middle line:90% You can name them. 00:33:20.010 --> 00:33:21.904 align:middle line:90% California. 00:33:21.904 --> 00:33:22.710 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: New York. 00:33:22.710 --> 00:33:24.100 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Texas, New York. 00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:25.958 align:middle line:84% California, Texas, New York, Florida. 00:33:25.958 --> 00:33:27.750 align:middle line:84% Those are four of the most important states 00:33:27.750 --> 00:33:29.790 align:middle line:90% just by population. 00:33:29.790 --> 00:33:34.777 align:middle line:84% So now you got to think about the standards of-- 00:33:34.777 --> 00:33:35.860 align:middle line:90% every state has standards. 00:33:35.860 --> 00:33:37.610 align:middle line:84% The history standards of those four states 00:33:37.610 --> 00:33:39.540 align:middle line:84% are more important than the history standards 00:33:39.540 --> 00:33:41.790 align:middle line:90% of Maine and North Dakota. 00:33:41.790 --> 00:33:45.833 align:middle line:84% And as political things come up around-- history 00:33:45.833 --> 00:33:47.500 align:middle line:84% is where this happens pretty frequently, 00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:50.460 align:middle line:84% but it happens in math and reading and other things, too. 00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:55.510 align:middle line:84% Yeah, actually, I used to do consulting 00:33:55.510 --> 00:33:57.250 align:middle line:84% for publishers of history textbooks, 00:33:57.250 --> 00:34:00.630 align:middle line:84% and once I saw the matrix where it 00:34:00.630 --> 00:34:04.800 align:middle line:84% was like all the possible topics along the columns 00:34:04.800 --> 00:34:06.810 align:middle line:84% and all of the states along the rows 00:34:06.810 --> 00:34:09.449 align:middle line:84% and x's of where all the topics get taught. 00:34:09.449 --> 00:34:11.340 align:middle line:84% I mean, the other thing is there'll 00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:14.340 align:middle line:84% be a huge group of Polish immigrants 00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:16.940 align:middle line:84% that come to some state and they won't 00:34:16.940 --> 00:34:18.960 align:middle line:84% see Polish people represented in their textbooks 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.449 align:middle line:84% and so they'll be like, we're only 00:34:20.449 --> 00:34:22.760 align:middle line:84% going to adopt books that talk about the importance 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.268 align:middle line:84% of Polish Americans in the history. 00:34:24.268 --> 00:34:26.310 align:middle line:84% And the publishing companies are like, all right, 00:34:26.310 --> 00:34:27.560 align:middle line:90% add the Polish to it. 00:34:27.560 --> 00:34:29.370 align:middle line:84% But then the Italians do it and the Cambodians do it, 00:34:29.370 --> 00:34:31.078 align:middle line:84% everybody else do it, and the textbooks-- 00:34:31.078 --> 00:34:34.860 align:middle line:84% that's why when you picked up your 800 pound history textbook, 00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:38.094 align:middle line:84% it was full of all these weird little bits and pieces 00:34:38.094 --> 00:34:38.969 align:middle line:90% and things like that. 00:34:38.969 --> 00:34:40.550 align:middle line:90% So yeah, these state level-- 00:34:40.550 --> 00:34:42.420 align:middle line:84% I mean, here's another tiny feature of this, 00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:43.880 align:middle line:90% but it ends up being important. 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.830 align:middle line:84% There are some states, mostly in the South, 00:34:46.830 --> 00:34:51.110 align:middle line:84% where material adoptions happen centrally or have some kind 00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:52.610 align:middle line:90% of centralized function. 00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:55.520 align:middle line:84% So Texas, Florida, they have state level boards 00:34:55.520 --> 00:34:58.860 align:middle line:84% that say you can only adopt books that pass these boards. 00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:02.228 align:middle line:84% Massachusetts is a huge local control state. 00:35:02.228 --> 00:35:03.770 align:middle line:84% The school districts in Massachusetts 00:35:03.770 --> 00:35:05.355 align:middle line:84% will go bonkers if the state tried 00:35:05.355 --> 00:35:07.730 align:middle line:84% to tell them which textbooks they could or could not use. 00:35:07.730 --> 00:35:09.355 align:middle line:84% There would be like another revolution, 00:35:09.355 --> 00:35:13.100 align:middle line:84% would be one if by land, two if by C class Mercedes 00:35:13.100 --> 00:35:17.700 align:middle line:84% or whatever it is, and they just wouldn't allow it. 00:35:17.700 --> 00:35:19.640 align:middle line:84% But it means that those states that 00:35:19.640 --> 00:35:21.740 align:middle line:84% have of centralized function actually 00:35:21.740 --> 00:35:24.282 align:middle line:84% end up having more influence over the publishers because they 00:35:24.282 --> 00:35:25.948 align:middle line:84% say, look, you want to sell a book here? 00:35:25.948 --> 00:35:27.500 align:middle line:84% And now it's not just a book, now 00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:29.130 align:middle line:84% it's a web program or things like that. 00:35:29.130 --> 00:35:31.430 align:middle line:84% Now the thing that is breaking away 00:35:31.430 --> 00:35:35.960 align:middle line:84% some of that monopoly, although also causing problems, is states 00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:40.010 align:middle line:84% can say, OK, we're going to pass all these laws that 00:35:40.010 --> 00:35:41.960 align:middle line:84% have the effect of way ramping down 00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:43.790 align:middle line:90% the teaching of Black history. 00:35:43.790 --> 00:35:46.200 align:middle line:84% And publishers can be like, all right, 00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:47.780 align:middle line:84% well, your web version of that, we'll 00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:49.405 align:middle line:84% delete this and this and this and this. 00:35:49.405 --> 00:35:51.705 align:middle line:84% But over in New York or California and liberal states, 00:35:51.705 --> 00:35:53.580 align:middle line:84% you can have all that kind of stuff in there. 00:35:53.580 --> 00:35:54.390 align:middle line:90% Yeah, Khalil? 00:35:54.390 --> 00:35:56.600 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:35:56.600 --> 00:35:59.150 align:middle line:90% Kind of going off of that. 00:35:59.150 --> 00:36:02.240 align:middle line:84% The political platforms play a large role 00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:03.440 align:middle line:90% in most of these places. 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.000 align:middle line:84% In the US, that's very much there. 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:11.070 align:middle line:84% But as an example from my own country, at every public school, 00:36:11.070 --> 00:36:15.070 align:middle line:84% they have a speaker system at the start of the school, 00:36:15.070 --> 00:36:18.100 align:middle line:84% specifically because they want to play the National Anthem. 00:36:18.100 --> 00:36:24.000 align:middle line:84% That's something they did really early, the kids have to do it. 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.880 align:middle line:84% To oh, there's so much like technology 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.450 align:middle line:90% that's just one thing. 00:36:28.450 --> 00:36:30.600 align:middle line:90% Why is this the only piece of-- 00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:32.910 align:middle line:84% there is some kind of incentive they 00:36:32.910 --> 00:36:37.410 align:middle line:84% want to build with political motives. 00:36:37.410 --> 00:36:40.290 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: And then does that broadcast system 00:36:40.290 --> 00:36:43.500 align:middle line:84% be used at other parts of the day as well, or? 00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:45.780 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Only gets used at the start of the school 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:49.710 align:middle line:84% where the National Anthem and some kids-- 00:36:49.710 --> 00:36:52.770 align:middle line:84% every classroom does a session where they just 00:36:52.770 --> 00:36:59.310 align:middle line:84% do some religious stuff, some Arabic poems, some fun 00:36:59.310 --> 00:37:01.070 align:middle line:90% facts, and then just that. 00:37:01.070 --> 00:37:02.070 align:middle line:90% But that's mostly just-- 00:37:02.070 --> 00:37:03.153 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: I love that. 00:37:03.153 --> 00:37:05.640 align:middle line:84% I think that's a fabulous example. 00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:07.705 align:middle line:84% Whatever the state government is-- 00:37:07.705 --> 00:37:08.830 align:middle line:90% the state is in the nation. 00:37:08.830 --> 00:37:12.660 align:middle line:84% The nation state government says every school must broadcast 00:37:12.660 --> 00:37:14.910 align:middle line:90% the National Anthem every day. 00:37:14.910 --> 00:37:16.470 align:middle line:84% Every single school in the country 00:37:16.470 --> 00:37:19.560 align:middle line:84% then has to build a technology infrastructure that 00:37:19.560 --> 00:37:20.590 align:middle line:90% allows that to happen. 00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:22.990 align:middle line:84% And then once that technology infrastructure is there, 00:37:22.990 --> 00:37:26.250 align:middle line:84% it can be used in other kinds of ways as well or not used 00:37:26.250 --> 00:37:27.930 align:middle line:84% or other kinds of things like that. 00:37:27.930 --> 00:37:32.070 align:middle line:84% You can find national examples of this in other kinds of ways. 00:37:32.070 --> 00:37:34.530 align:middle line:84% One of the most interesting countries right now 00:37:34.530 --> 00:37:37.950 align:middle line:84% for education policymakers to watch is Estonia. 00:37:37.950 --> 00:37:40.560 align:middle line:84% About every decade, some country that people aren't really 00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:44.200 align:middle line:84% paying attention to gets really good international test scores. 00:37:44.200 --> 00:37:45.835 align:middle line:90% So Singapore was it for a while. 00:37:45.835 --> 00:37:46.960 align:middle line:90% Finland was it for a while. 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:48.877 align:middle line:84% People were obsessed with Finland for a while. 00:37:48.877 --> 00:37:49.960 align:middle line:90% Estonia is kind of last. 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:51.480 align:middle line:84% Who are you people and why-- like, 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:53.400 align:middle line:90% why are you so good at reading? 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.910 align:middle line:90% And Estonia is very famous for-- 00:37:56.910 --> 00:37:58.710 align:middle line:90% sometimes it's called E-stonia. 00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:01.110 align:middle line:84% Their government has really embraced the internet 00:38:01.110 --> 00:38:02.882 align:middle line:84% in a very centralized kind of way, 00:38:02.882 --> 00:38:04.590 align:middle line:84% and so people are looking at and thinking 00:38:04.590 --> 00:38:07.170 align:middle line:84% about how education technologies are adopted in Estonia 00:38:07.170 --> 00:38:08.170 align:middle line:90% and other kinds of ways. 00:38:08.170 --> 00:38:10.590 align:middle line:84% But it wasn't a policy that was just for the schools. 00:38:10.590 --> 00:38:13.010 align:middle line:84% They were like, we're going to put Estonia on the map 00:38:13.010 --> 00:38:15.750 align:middle line:84% by having really good digital government services. 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.570 align:middle line:84% And that national policy decision 00:38:17.570 --> 00:38:20.150 align:middle line:84% ends up affecting the learning experiences of kids in schools 00:38:20.150 --> 00:38:21.330 align:middle line:90% and all kinds of places. 00:38:21.330 --> 00:38:24.230 align:middle line:90% Yeah, that's a great example. 00:38:24.230 --> 00:38:26.472 align:middle line:90% Students. 00:38:26.472 --> 00:38:30.175 align:middle line:84% What are the interests and disincentives of students? 00:38:30.175 --> 00:38:33.457 align:middle line:90% 00:38:33.457 --> 00:38:34.290 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's cool. 00:38:34.290 --> 00:38:35.998 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's a new piece of technology. 00:38:35.998 --> 00:38:38.000 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: So almost all of us like novelty. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.980 align:middle line:84% That is one of the advantages that technology has. 00:38:42.980 --> 00:38:45.350 align:middle line:84% Although an amazing thing about novelty 00:38:45.350 --> 00:38:48.470 align:middle line:84% is how shockingly quickly it wears off. 00:38:48.470 --> 00:38:50.750 align:middle line:84% Actually, I was reading this on Reddit the other day. 00:38:50.750 --> 00:38:53.180 align:middle line:84% A teacher was being like, I don't 00:38:53.180 --> 00:38:55.920 align:middle line:84% know, like I brought a Nintendo Switch into class 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.227 align:middle line:84% so we could play these mathematical logic games. 00:38:58.227 --> 00:39:00.060 align:middle line:84% And my students were like, oh, please, Miss, 00:39:00.060 --> 00:39:01.530 align:middle line:90% can we just do worksheets? 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:04.340 align:middle line:84% And I was like, fine, do worksheets then. 00:39:04.340 --> 00:39:07.890 align:middle line:84% But they're like, oh, man, you want to play some online game? 00:39:07.890 --> 00:39:08.990 align:middle line:90% I don't want to play-- 00:39:08.990 --> 00:39:10.850 align:middle line:84% now, there would have been some moment that this class would 00:39:10.850 --> 00:39:11.700 align:middle line:90% be like, what? 00:39:11.700 --> 00:39:13.290 align:middle line:84% We can play a computer game in class? 00:39:13.290 --> 00:39:13.957 align:middle line:90% This is amazing. 00:39:13.957 --> 00:39:17.192 align:middle line:90% 00:39:17.192 --> 00:39:19.820 align:middle line:84% It's an interesting feature of education, technology adoption 00:39:19.820 --> 00:39:22.790 align:middle line:84% that novelty, can be extremely compelling 00:39:22.790 --> 00:39:25.730 align:middle line:84% for a short period of time and then wear off pretty quickly. 00:39:25.730 --> 00:39:27.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you have any comment 00:39:27.200 --> 00:39:32.990 align:middle line:84% on why students default is now back to that pen and paper? 00:39:32.990 --> 00:39:34.640 align:middle line:84% Because I mean, people are always like, 00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:37.680 align:middle line:84% education has been the same for decades. 00:39:37.680 --> 00:39:39.200 align:middle line:84% And why does it always look this way 00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:40.680 align:middle line:90% even after we've reformed it? 00:39:40.680 --> 00:39:43.610 align:middle line:84% Like, why is the default that pen and paper? 00:39:43.610 --> 00:39:44.540 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:39:44.540 --> 00:39:47.060 align:middle line:84% So, well, let's just highlight an important thing 00:39:47.060 --> 00:39:48.950 align:middle line:84% that you observed, which we were talking 00:39:48.950 --> 00:39:51.770 align:middle line:84% about over here too, which is just schools are incredibly 00:39:51.770 --> 00:39:54.720 align:middle line:90% conservative institutions. 00:39:54.720 --> 00:39:57.860 align:middle line:84% Why would that-- small C conservative, not right wing. 00:39:57.860 --> 00:39:59.000 align:middle line:90% Some of them are, but. 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.210 align:middle line:90% They're small C conservative. 00:40:00.210 --> 00:40:02.413 align:middle line:84% They do things the same way over and over again. 00:40:02.413 --> 00:40:04.080 align:middle line:84% What are some possible reasons for that? 00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:06.827 align:middle line:84% One is, if you went and interviewed parents and said-- 00:40:06.827 --> 00:40:08.910 align:middle line:84% who are another stakeholder that a bunch of people 00:40:08.910 --> 00:40:11.370 align:middle line:84% brought up-- how much do you want us experimenting 00:40:11.370 --> 00:40:12.690 align:middle line:90% with your children? 00:40:12.690 --> 00:40:15.240 align:middle line:84% The answer to that is going to be pretty low. 00:40:15.240 --> 00:40:17.880 align:middle line:84% The enthusiasm that people have for experimenting on children 00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.780 align:middle line:90% is low. 00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:22.200 align:middle line:84% Second, everyone in the educational system 00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:23.880 align:middle line:84% who's an adult has what's been sometimes 00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.340 align:middle line:84% called the apprenticeship of observation. 00:40:26.340 --> 00:40:28.080 align:middle line:84% You all have been in school somewhere 00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:32.218 align:middle line:84% between 13 and 18 years, and that shapes your experience. 00:40:32.218 --> 00:40:34.260 align:middle line:84% And so people who have roughly the same education 00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:36.820 align:middle line:84% level as you go into schools and become teachers, 00:40:36.820 --> 00:40:40.590 align:middle line:84% and they bring that 13, 18, 20 years of educational experience 00:40:40.590 --> 00:40:42.960 align:middle line:84% with them, and that shapes the way you 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:44.730 align:middle line:90% think schools should unfold. 00:40:44.730 --> 00:40:47.298 align:middle line:84% Parents can bring those expectations in. 00:40:47.298 --> 00:40:48.340 align:middle line:90% I will never forget this. 00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:49.387 align:middle line:90% I was once working-- 00:40:49.387 --> 00:40:50.970 align:middle line:84% I was conversing with a school in Utah 00:40:50.970 --> 00:40:54.100 align:middle line:84% that was trying to switch to openly licensed materials. 00:40:54.100 --> 00:40:56.310 align:middle line:84% It was, I don't know, 15 years ago, 18 years ago, 00:40:56.310 --> 00:40:56.890 align:middle line:90% or something like that. 00:40:56.890 --> 00:40:58.682 align:middle line:84% They were trying to get away from textbooks 00:40:58.682 --> 00:41:01.500 align:middle line:84% and to have people use digital materials, particularly 00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:04.242 align:middle line:84% digital materials that their teachers could edit so that they 00:41:04.242 --> 00:41:06.450 align:middle line:84% could make them tailored to their students and things 00:41:06.450 --> 00:41:08.370 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:41:08.370 --> 00:41:10.190 align:middle line:84% But they still kept textbooks in classroom, 00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:12.190 align:middle line:84% and I can't tell you whether or not that's true. 00:41:12.190 --> 00:41:14.760 align:middle line:84% But he says the reason why we keep textbooks in classrooms 00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.750 align:middle line:84% is that there aren't textbooks in classrooms, 00:41:16.750 --> 00:41:19.175 align:middle line:90% parents will be upset. 00:41:19.175 --> 00:41:20.800 align:middle line:84% Parents, when they go into a classroom, 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:22.050 align:middle line:90% expect to see textbooks there. 00:41:22.050 --> 00:41:25.537 align:middle line:84% Basically, it was cheaper to keep buying enough textbooks 00:41:25.537 --> 00:41:27.120 align:middle line:84% to be in all of the classrooms than it 00:41:27.120 --> 00:41:29.730 align:middle line:84% was to hire administrators to explain to parents 00:41:29.730 --> 00:41:32.700 align:middle line:84% why there weren't textbooks in the classroom anymore. 00:41:32.700 --> 00:41:35.430 align:middle line:84% So all of these different stakeholders, 00:41:35.430 --> 00:41:40.890 align:middle line:84% this conservative vision of education is part of that. 00:41:40.890 --> 00:41:44.160 align:middle line:84% One possibility is that that's really bad, 00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:46.800 align:middle line:84% that there are actually way better ways of doing 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:48.100 align:middle line:90% things that are out there. 00:41:48.100 --> 00:41:50.070 align:middle line:84% And it's a bummer that we're so conservative 00:41:50.070 --> 00:41:52.140 align:middle line:84% and that's really holding us back. 00:41:52.140 --> 00:41:55.950 align:middle line:84% Another possibility is that the practices that exist in schools 00:41:55.950 --> 00:41:58.900 align:middle line:84% have been refined over decades and centuries, 00:41:58.900 --> 00:42:01.740 align:middle line:84% and they are the way they are because they're pretty darn 00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:03.675 align:middle line:90% good. 00:42:03.675 --> 00:42:07.010 align:middle line:84% That we keep doing certain kinds of things because they work. 00:42:07.010 --> 00:42:09.445 align:middle line:84% So you'll have to figure out for yourself, 00:42:09.445 --> 00:42:12.920 align:middle line:84% if you hear examples of students adopting old practices, 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:14.350 align:middle line:84% are they adopting those practices 00:42:14.350 --> 00:42:16.725 align:middle line:84% because they work really well and because they like them, 00:42:16.725 --> 00:42:18.760 align:middle line:84% because they're comfortable and familiar? 00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:22.130 align:middle line:84% There's an argument that, particularly in our age, 00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:26.380 align:middle line:84% where students are fixated on grades and performance in a way 00:42:26.380 --> 00:42:29.065 align:middle line:84% that they might have not been in decades past because-- 00:42:29.065 --> 00:42:31.550 align:middle line:84% not because kids are more materialistic or something. 00:42:31.550 --> 00:42:33.220 align:middle line:84% It's because of economic uncertainty, 00:42:33.220 --> 00:42:35.530 align:middle line:84% because as the gap between wealthy and poor people 00:42:35.530 --> 00:42:37.790 align:middle line:84% widens and the stakes of education become higher, 00:42:37.790 --> 00:42:39.760 align:middle line:84% people become more fixated on it. 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.550 align:middle line:84% And so those kids who are adopting familiar matters, 00:42:42.550 --> 00:42:44.160 align:middle line:84% do they really like the familiarity? 00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:46.660 align:middle line:84% Or do they know how to do well in the familiarity and things 00:42:46.660 --> 00:42:47.160 align:middle line:90% like that? 00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:50.350 align:middle line:84% But again, keep tying all the things 00:42:50.350 --> 00:42:53.860 align:middle line:84% that we were talking about back to the decision of educators 00:42:53.860 --> 00:42:57.490 align:middle line:84% trying to implement new technologies. 00:42:57.490 --> 00:42:59.800 align:middle line:84% Everyone in your system is going to have 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:01.870 align:middle line:84% some kind of conservative impulse 00:43:01.870 --> 00:43:03.210 align:middle line:90% all the way down to students. 00:43:03.210 --> 00:43:04.627 align:middle line:84% That conservative impulse might be 00:43:04.627 --> 00:43:07.390 align:middle line:84% balanced by the novelty effect that we're talking about, 00:43:07.390 --> 00:43:08.140 align:middle line:90% but it's in there. 00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:10.830 align:middle line:84% So if you want a new technology to really 00:43:10.830 --> 00:43:13.240 align:middle line:84% be adopted in some kind of meaningful way, 00:43:13.240 --> 00:43:15.780 align:middle line:84% one strategy you can have is to have it 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:18.010 align:middle line:90% align with existing practices. 00:43:18.010 --> 00:43:19.767 align:middle line:84% You could say, let's take technologies 00:43:19.767 --> 00:43:21.600 align:middle line:84% that do the kinds of things that are already 00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:22.590 align:middle line:90% happening in schools. 00:43:22.590 --> 00:43:25.210 align:middle line:84% That will be less upsetting, that will require less training. 00:43:25.210 --> 00:43:26.418 align:middle line:90% That will require less upset. 00:43:26.418 --> 00:43:28.362 align:middle line:84% It probably also won't help that much. 00:43:28.362 --> 00:43:30.820 align:middle line:84% I mean, the people selling the technologies won't say that. 00:43:30.820 --> 00:43:33.973 align:middle line:84% But if you're just digitizing existing practices, how likely 00:43:33.973 --> 00:43:36.390 align:middle line:84% are you to have substantial gains from digitizing existing 00:43:36.390 --> 00:43:37.000 align:middle line:90% practices? 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:38.753 align:middle line:84% Or maybe you're a big, ambitious reformer 00:43:38.753 --> 00:43:41.170 align:middle line:84% and you say, no, no, no, we could be doing so much better. 00:43:41.170 --> 00:43:44.020 align:middle line:84% We could go from 2% to 100% efficiency in schools. 00:43:44.020 --> 00:43:46.450 align:middle line:84% We just have to make big changes in our practice. 00:43:46.450 --> 00:43:48.210 align:middle line:84% Well, making big changes in practice 00:43:48.210 --> 00:43:52.425 align:middle line:84% requires convincing people to change all of these things. 00:43:52.425 --> 00:43:54.820 align:middle line:84% I've read this book a zillion times now, 00:43:54.820 --> 00:44:00.065 align:middle line:84% but I was just revisiting a line in here that I loved. 00:44:00.065 --> 00:44:01.440 align:middle line:84% He said something towards the end 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:06.733 align:middle line:84% there where settings have plans for their inhabitants. 00:44:06.733 --> 00:44:07.650 align:middle line:90% Anybody remember that? 00:44:07.650 --> 00:44:10.680 align:middle line:84% He was talking about the physical layout of a classroom, 00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:13.540 align:middle line:84% but he was using a broader sociological principle. 00:44:13.540 --> 00:44:16.290 align:middle line:84% Settings have plans for their inhabitants. 00:44:16.290 --> 00:44:19.440 align:middle line:84% People interact in a space in a certain way 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.203 align:middle line:84% because the physical space is laid out and built in that way. 00:44:23.203 --> 00:44:25.620 align:middle line:84% So I was talking with these guys about one of the problems 00:44:25.620 --> 00:44:26.790 align:middle line:90% that filmstrips have. 00:44:26.790 --> 00:44:28.930 align:middle line:84% To have a filmstrip in your classroom, 00:44:28.930 --> 00:44:31.360 align:middle line:84% you have to take a giant projector on wheels, 00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:33.280 align:middle line:84% and you have to roll it into the space. 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:37.260 align:middle line:84% There would have been some classrooms filled with early 00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:40.440 align:middle line:84% 20th century urban schools with tons of immigrants who are 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.080 align:middle line:84% pouring in on America's shores that don't have room 00:44:43.080 --> 00:44:45.060 align:middle line:84% in their classroom for a big thing. 00:44:45.060 --> 00:44:48.000 align:middle line:84% The other thing that filmstrips had that was a huge pain 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:49.810 align:middle line:90% is these giant film reels. 00:44:49.810 --> 00:44:52.450 align:middle line:84% The early film reels were really, really big. 00:44:52.450 --> 00:44:54.395 align:middle line:84% Where are you going to put these things? 00:44:54.395 --> 00:44:56.700 align:middle line:84% Your town did not build a building 00:44:56.700 --> 00:45:02.070 align:middle line:84% that had an archival film studio storage unit attached to it. 00:45:02.070 --> 00:45:04.830 align:middle line:84% Let's say you have a big school and there are four first grade 00:45:04.830 --> 00:45:07.052 align:middle line:84% classes, and you want to buy a filmstrip for all four 00:45:07.052 --> 00:45:09.010 align:middle line:84% of those first-- like, are you going to build-- 00:45:09.010 --> 00:45:11.580 align:middle line:84% are you going to buy four copies of the same filmstrip? 00:45:11.580 --> 00:45:13.900 align:middle line:84% Is each classroom going to have its own film library? 00:45:13.900 --> 00:45:15.550 align:middle line:84% If it has some centralized library, 00:45:15.550 --> 00:45:19.090 align:middle line:84% you have to have some way of tagging, archiving, 00:45:19.090 --> 00:45:21.340 align:middle line:84% maintaining those things, bringing it into classrooms. 00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:24.270 align:middle line:84% I mean, there are contemporary versions of all of these things. 00:45:24.270 --> 00:45:26.460 align:middle line:84% Oh, you want to give every kid a device? 00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:28.960 align:middle line:84% How is that kid's device going to get on the network? 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:30.670 align:middle line:84% How is he going to be able to log in? 00:45:30.670 --> 00:45:32.860 align:middle line:84% Who's going to deal when they lose their password? 00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:35.580 align:middle line:84% What's going to happen when their devices break? 00:45:35.580 --> 00:45:38.470 align:middle line:84% Are you going to make families pay for the devices they break? 00:45:38.470 --> 00:45:39.580 align:middle line:90% Your kids are super poor. 00:45:39.580 --> 00:45:40.570 align:middle line:90% They can't afford that. 00:45:40.570 --> 00:45:42.820 align:middle line:84% So you're going to contract with an insurance company. 00:45:42.820 --> 00:45:44.730 align:middle line:84% Who, on your staff, has experience 00:45:44.730 --> 00:45:46.590 align:middle line:84% contracting with insurance companies 00:45:46.590 --> 00:45:50.338 align:middle line:90% to insure computing devices? 00:45:50.338 --> 00:45:51.880 align:middle line:84% Like, you didn't learn that at your-- 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:53.340 align:middle line:84% I mean, we'll talk with the education school 00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:55.465 align:middle line:84% deans on Wednesday, but I'm pretty sure they're not 00:45:55.465 --> 00:45:59.470 align:middle line:84% teaching their students how to manage insurance contracts 00:45:59.470 --> 00:46:01.450 align:middle line:90% and things like that. 00:46:01.450 --> 00:46:05.470 align:middle line:90% All of those things become-- 00:46:05.470 --> 00:46:08.740 align:middle line:84% well, they have a combination of incentives and disincentives 00:46:08.740 --> 00:46:10.630 align:middle line:90% that are associated with them. 00:46:10.630 --> 00:46:11.745 align:middle line:90% Good. 00:46:11.745 --> 00:46:13.120 align:middle line:84% Any of these other people that it 00:46:13.120 --> 00:46:16.750 align:middle line:84% seems like it's important for us to touch on before we 00:46:16.750 --> 00:46:18.200 align:middle line:90% come to the conclusion? 00:46:18.200 --> 00:46:20.650 align:middle line:90% We talked about parents. 00:46:20.650 --> 00:46:22.670 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't know how much we talked. 00:46:22.670 --> 00:46:25.040 align:middle line:84% Maybe there's one last thing that we could talk about. 00:46:25.040 --> 00:46:27.730 align:middle line:84% We talked a little bit about school administrators. 00:46:27.730 --> 00:46:34.960 align:middle line:84% But a thing to be particularly attentive to in schools 00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.690 align:middle line:84% is just how many different kinds of adults with different roles 00:46:37.690 --> 00:46:38.190 align:middle line:90% there are. 00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:39.700 align:middle line:90% So we talked about teachers. 00:46:39.700 --> 00:46:42.170 align:middle line:84% There are people who are school principals. 00:46:42.170 --> 00:46:43.910 align:middle line:84% Like if you're a school principal, 00:46:43.910 --> 00:46:46.240 align:middle line:84% what are the most urgent concerns that you 00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:48.790 align:middle line:90% have on any given day? 00:46:48.790 --> 00:46:50.260 align:middle line:84% Like, what are the main incentives 00:46:50.260 --> 00:46:51.903 align:middle line:90% you have as a school principal? 00:46:51.903 --> 00:46:52.820 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Your budget. 00:46:52.820 --> 00:46:53.230 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yep. 00:46:53.230 --> 00:46:54.830 align:middle line:84% You got to make sure you can pay for everything. 00:46:54.830 --> 00:46:56.150 align:middle line:84% A teacher is not worried about that. 00:46:56.150 --> 00:46:57.370 align:middle line:90% Teacher will buy as much-- 00:46:57.370 --> 00:46:58.320 align:middle line:84% if the school will pay paid for it, 00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:59.780 align:middle line:84% they'll take as much technology as they want. 00:46:59.780 --> 00:47:00.530 align:middle line:90% Some of them. 00:47:00.530 --> 00:47:02.480 align:middle line:84% But principals have to balance the budget. 00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:05.070 align:middle line:84% I mean, the weird thing is in the United States, 00:47:05.070 --> 00:47:06.817 align:middle line:84% it may not at all be a principal's role 00:47:06.817 --> 00:47:07.650 align:middle line:90% to balance a budget. 00:47:07.650 --> 00:47:09.553 align:middle line:84% It may be entirely a district role. 00:47:09.553 --> 00:47:10.970 align:middle line:84% So there are some school districts 00:47:10.970 --> 00:47:13.500 align:middle line:84% where the district will make all the purchasing decisions. 00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:15.020 align:middle line:84% There are other districts where the districts will 00:47:15.020 --> 00:47:17.478 align:middle line:84% take big chunks of money, send it down to schools, and say, 00:47:17.478 --> 00:47:21.230 align:middle line:84% schools, make all the purchasing decisions. 00:47:21.230 --> 00:47:23.815 align:middle line:84% What else is super important for principals? 00:47:23.815 --> 00:47:25.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was going to say just 00:47:25.190 --> 00:47:28.020 align:middle line:84% maintaining the school building itself for student safety. 00:47:28.020 --> 00:47:28.310 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:47:28.310 --> 00:47:28.810 align:middle line:90% Yep. 00:47:28.810 --> 00:47:31.370 align:middle line:84% Student safety, maintaining the physical school building, 00:47:31.370 --> 00:47:33.620 align:middle line:84% making sure things are running and operating and stuff 00:47:33.620 --> 00:47:35.017 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:47:35.017 --> 00:47:37.100 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Are they also managing the relationships 00:47:37.100 --> 00:47:38.840 align:middle line:84% with the district and also parents? 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:39.960 align:middle line:90% Like, all these outside-- 00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:42.380 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yep, yep. 00:47:42.380 --> 00:47:45.230 align:middle line:84% And principals are quintessential 00:47:45.230 --> 00:47:47.600 align:middle line:84% organizational behavior middle managers. 00:47:47.600 --> 00:47:50.040 align:middle line:84% They're empowered to do some things but not others. 00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:52.665 align:middle line:84% They're accountable to lots of different kinds of stakeholders. 00:47:52.665 --> 00:47:55.910 align:middle line:84% There's all kinds of complexity in what they're doing. 00:47:55.910 --> 00:47:57.910 align:middle line:90% A lot of them are pretty keyed-- 00:47:57.910 --> 00:48:00.150 align:middle line:84% or evaluated based on test scores, especially 00:48:00.150 --> 00:48:04.182 align:middle line:84% in places where students are at risk of not passing tests. 00:48:04.182 --> 00:48:05.890 align:middle line:84% Depending upon the policy infrastructure, 00:48:05.890 --> 00:48:07.770 align:middle line:84% test scores really matter to them. 00:48:07.770 --> 00:48:12.150 align:middle line:84% Safety and the orderly operation of schools. 00:48:12.150 --> 00:48:14.890 align:middle line:84% Every person in the building wants schools to be orderly, 00:48:14.890 --> 00:48:16.860 align:middle line:84% but when schools are disorderly, the person who 00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:19.110 align:middle line:84% has to deal with it the most is an assistant principal 00:48:19.110 --> 00:48:19.818 align:middle line:90% or the principal. 00:48:19.818 --> 00:48:22.360 align:middle line:90% It's just more work for them. 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:26.040 align:middle line:84% You let all the kids have phones and fights break out 00:48:26.040 --> 00:48:27.332 align:middle line:90% and all kinds of things happen. 00:48:27.332 --> 00:48:29.665 align:middle line:84% Teachers have to deal with it, but the principals really 00:48:29.665 --> 00:48:30.660 align:middle line:90% have to deal with it. 00:48:30.660 --> 00:48:31.970 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I was just like-- 00:48:31.970 --> 00:48:33.060 align:middle line:90% really short comment. 00:48:33.060 --> 00:48:35.590 align:middle line:84% Just, when you asked us, what does a principal do? 00:48:35.590 --> 00:48:37.210 align:middle line:84% I've been around them my entire life, 00:48:37.210 --> 00:48:39.870 align:middle line:84% and I was like, I can only think of like two or three things 00:48:39.870 --> 00:48:41.920 align:middle line:84% that I know a principal actually does. 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.730 align:middle line:84% And I just think it's really strange that most people aren't 00:48:44.730 --> 00:48:46.530 align:middle line:84% sitting you down and being like, this 00:48:46.530 --> 00:48:49.473 align:middle line:84% is the person you go to for x, y, and z things-- 00:48:49.473 --> 00:48:50.265 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:48:50.265 --> 00:48:51.890 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --around these organizations. 00:48:51.890 --> 00:48:53.215 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Good. 00:48:53.215 --> 00:48:54.840 align:middle line:84% I think there are a few things that you 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:56.190 align:middle line:90% can grasp from that insight. 00:48:56.190 --> 00:49:00.300 align:middle line:84% First of all, schools are just unbelievably complicated. 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:02.610 align:middle line:84% I've spent the last 20 years basically 00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:04.450 align:middle line:84% doing nothing but thinking about schools, 00:49:04.450 --> 00:49:06.242 align:middle line:84% and I still don't understand all the things 00:49:06.242 --> 00:49:08.870 align:middle line:90% that are going on in there. 00:49:08.870 --> 00:49:11.220 align:middle line:84% Just as an ecosystem, they're unbelievably 00:49:11.220 --> 00:49:12.840 align:middle line:90% complex and fascinating. 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:16.780 align:middle line:84% The second is as you transition, if you decide to work, 00:49:16.780 --> 00:49:18.870 align:middle line:84% be involved in education, you have 00:49:18.870 --> 00:49:22.170 align:middle line:84% to relearn all this stuff going from a student to being someone 00:49:22.170 --> 00:49:23.320 align:middle line:90% who's working in education. 00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:25.750 align:middle line:84% There's all kinds of things that were hidden from you, 00:49:25.750 --> 00:49:27.833 align:middle line:84% masked from you, or just weren't important to you. 00:49:27.833 --> 00:49:31.020 align:middle line:84% The odds that any of you were real troublemakers 00:49:31.020 --> 00:49:33.570 align:middle line:84% is pretty low, given that you're at MIT. 00:49:33.570 --> 00:49:37.350 align:middle line:84% But there's a classroom full of people sitting somewhere 00:49:37.350 --> 00:49:39.870 align:middle line:84% that knew principles pretty intimately because they spent 00:49:39.870 --> 00:49:43.240 align:middle line:84% too much time in their office because of things that they did 00:49:43.240 --> 00:49:43.840 align:middle line:90% and so forth. 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:44.140 align:middle line:90% So good. 00:49:44.140 --> 00:49:44.640 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:49:44.640 --> 00:49:47.280 align:middle line:84% If part of what happens to you in this class 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.390 align:middle line:84% is a lot of times in social science, 00:49:49.390 --> 00:49:51.438 align:middle line:84% we talk about making the familiar unfamiliar. 00:49:51.438 --> 00:49:53.980 align:middle line:84% A thing that you've looked at your whole life and being like, 00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:55.180 align:middle line:84% whoa, look at all these things there 00:49:55.180 --> 00:49:56.555 align:middle line:84% that I wasn't paying attention to 00:49:56.555 --> 00:49:59.770 align:middle line:84% or wasn't made aware to me and those kinds of things. 00:49:59.770 --> 00:50:05.290 align:middle line:84% Maybe here's one very concrete thing. 00:50:05.290 --> 00:50:09.160 align:middle line:84% Let's think of something like a student information 00:50:09.160 --> 00:50:10.582 align:middle line:90% system or Canvas. 00:50:10.582 --> 00:50:13.040 align:middle line:84% Let's think of something like a learning management system. 00:50:13.040 --> 00:50:16.690 align:middle line:84% Who spends the most time using Canvas? 00:50:16.690 --> 00:50:18.598 align:middle line:84% Tell me about the people who use Canvas. 00:50:18.598 --> 00:50:19.390 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Students. 00:50:19.390 --> 00:50:20.080 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Students. 00:50:20.080 --> 00:50:21.790 align:middle line:84% Students spend a lot of hours logged 00:50:21.790 --> 00:50:23.090 align:middle line:90% in looking at stuff on Canvas. 00:50:23.090 --> 00:50:24.928 align:middle line:90% Who else looks at Canvas? 00:50:24.928 --> 00:50:25.720 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Teachers. 00:50:25.720 --> 00:50:26.678 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Teachers. 00:50:26.678 --> 00:50:28.340 align:middle line:90% Who buys Canvas? 00:50:28.340 --> 00:50:29.800 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Not the students. 00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:31.600 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: Not students and teachers. 00:50:31.600 --> 00:50:34.675 align:middle line:90% 00:50:34.675 --> 00:50:35.690 align:middle line:90% In business school. 00:50:35.690 --> 00:50:38.770 align:middle line:84% I think they would call this a third party payer problem. 00:50:38.770 --> 00:50:41.890 align:middle line:84% So if you are a company that's making a learning management 00:50:41.890 --> 00:50:48.040 align:middle line:84% system, of your stakeholders, who 00:50:48.040 --> 00:50:51.670 align:middle line:84% has the most power to determine whether or not your thing gets 00:50:51.670 --> 00:50:53.870 align:middle line:90% purchased? 00:50:53.870 --> 00:50:56.240 align:middle line:84% Some director of education technology or something 00:50:56.240 --> 00:50:57.630 align:middle line:90% like that, some IT person. 00:50:57.630 --> 00:51:01.640 align:middle line:84% So if you've ever wondered, why is this so terrible? 00:51:01.640 --> 00:51:04.325 align:middle line:90% It wasn't built for you. 00:51:04.325 --> 00:51:07.170 align:middle line:84% In some important ways, it was literally not built for you. 00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:10.910 align:middle line:84% It was built to solve the problems of some middle level 00:51:10.910 --> 00:51:12.980 align:middle line:84% information technology manager who's going 00:51:12.980 --> 00:51:14.130 align:middle line:90% to buy one of those things. 00:51:14.130 --> 00:51:17.515 align:middle line:84% So third party payer problems are rife across-- 00:51:17.515 --> 00:51:19.640 align:middle line:84% I mean, the problem with third party payer problems 00:51:19.640 --> 00:51:21.307 align:middle line:84% from a classical economics point of view 00:51:21.307 --> 00:51:24.521 align:middle line:84% is you just have misaligned incentives. 00:51:24.521 --> 00:51:27.650 align:middle line:84% In some respects, you could say that improving the teaching 00:51:27.650 --> 00:51:30.740 align:middle line:84% and learning experience on Canvas is a cost. 00:51:30.740 --> 00:51:33.125 align:middle line:84% It's something that reduces your profit. 00:51:33.125 --> 00:51:35.000 align:middle line:84% Obviously, you have to make it good enough so 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.588 align:middle line:84% that if enough teachers and stuff enrolled-- any of you 00:51:37.588 --> 00:51:38.755 align:middle line:90% ever have to use Blackboard? 00:51:38.755 --> 00:51:39.770 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes, I have. 00:51:39.770 --> 00:51:41.270 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: OK, good. 00:51:41.270 --> 00:51:43.170 align:middle line:84% I once met the guy who made Blackboard, 00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:45.350 align:middle line:84% and I was just standing there in line behind him 00:51:45.350 --> 00:51:46.820 align:middle line:84% or something like that, being like, what would it 00:51:46.820 --> 00:51:49.670 align:middle line:84% be like to have made a piece of software that millions of people 00:51:49.670 --> 00:51:51.030 align:middle line:90% hate? 00:51:51.030 --> 00:51:53.220 align:middle line:84% Like, what would it have been like to introduce 00:51:53.220 --> 00:51:56.750 align:middle line:84% so much unhappiness in the world with what you've built? 00:51:56.750 --> 00:52:01.800 align:middle line:84% I think it would have been rude, I think, in the buffet line 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:03.270 align:middle line:90% to ask him that question. 00:52:03.270 --> 00:52:04.380 align:middle line:84% Here's another thing that I want to say 00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:05.530 align:middle line:90% about who buys these things. 00:52:05.530 --> 00:52:06.810 align:middle line:84% And this is really important too, 00:52:06.810 --> 00:52:09.018 align:middle line:84% especially to any of you who are interested in either 00:52:09.018 --> 00:52:10.020 align:middle line:90% in education-- 00:52:10.020 --> 00:52:14.220 align:middle line:84% starting an education startup or other kinds of things. 00:52:14.220 --> 00:52:17.410 align:middle line:84% Who in a school can buy technology? 00:52:17.410 --> 00:52:22.390 align:middle line:84% What are some possible titles of people who buy technology? 00:52:22.390 --> 00:52:23.640 align:middle line:90% We've mentioned a few of them. 00:52:23.640 --> 00:52:24.515 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Librarians. 00:52:24.515 --> 00:52:27.265 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: A librarian could buy technology. 00:52:27.265 --> 00:52:28.390 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Department chair. 00:52:28.390 --> 00:52:30.640 align:middle line:84% JUSTIN REICH: A department chair could buy technology. 00:52:30.640 --> 00:52:33.780 align:middle line:90% 00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:34.530 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Teacher. 00:52:34.530 --> 00:52:35.530 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: A teacher. 00:52:35.530 --> 00:52:37.018 align:middle line:84% They are amongst the least likely. 00:52:37.018 --> 00:52:39.060 align:middle line:84% Actually, sometimes people have made the argument 00:52:39.060 --> 00:52:41.100 align:middle line:84% that a problem in the education system 00:52:41.100 --> 00:52:45.270 align:middle line:84% is it's very difficult to have a real bottom up marketplace 00:52:45.270 --> 00:52:47.580 align:middle line:90% kind of effect. 00:52:47.580 --> 00:52:52.060 align:middle line:84% In most places, teachers have very few discretionary dollars. 00:52:52.060 --> 00:52:55.310 align:middle line:84% I mean, that's why they're holding bake sales and asking-- 00:52:55.310 --> 00:52:57.810 align:middle line:84% when you become parents, your teachers will ask you to bring 00:52:57.810 --> 00:53:01.090 align:middle line:84% in boxes of tissues and things like that, and you'll be like, 00:53:01.090 --> 00:53:04.320 align:middle line:84% what broken, failed country do we live in where you cannot 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:07.570 align:middle line:84% simply buy all the tissues that you need for the children? 00:53:07.570 --> 00:53:08.070 align:middle line:90% Hm? 00:53:08.070 --> 00:53:08.830 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Or paper. 00:53:08.830 --> 00:53:09.125 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Paper. 00:53:09.125 --> 00:53:10.258 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Two reams. 00:53:10.258 --> 00:53:11.050 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: Yeah. 00:53:11.050 --> 00:53:11.550 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:53:11.550 --> 00:53:14.400 align:middle line:84% Two reams of paper a semester for all your students. 00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:16.630 align:middle line:84% So the teachers don't have-- in some cases, they do, 00:53:16.630 --> 00:53:17.610 align:middle line:84% but in a lot of cases [INAUDIBLE]. 00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:18.880 align:middle line:90% Principals can buy things. 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:20.680 align:middle line:84% Directors of instructional technology can buy things. 00:53:20.680 --> 00:53:22.060 align:middle line:84% Assistant superintendents can buy things. 00:53:22.060 --> 00:53:23.352 align:middle line:90% Superintendents can buy things. 00:53:23.352 --> 00:53:25.170 align:middle line:84% School boards in some places can directly 00:53:25.170 --> 00:53:27.060 align:middle line:84% authorize kinds of things, although that's probably more 00:53:27.060 --> 00:53:28.352 align:middle line:90% rare, but they can push for it. 00:53:28.352 --> 00:53:32.080 align:middle line:84% But the point is, across the 13,000 school districts, 00:53:32.080 --> 00:53:33.760 align:middle line:84% in 130,000 schools in this country, 00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:36.540 align:middle line:84% the answer to the question, who can buy something is different 00:53:36.540 --> 00:53:38.640 align:middle line:90% in all of those contexts. 00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:42.990 align:middle line:84% That makes starting an education technology company very, very 00:53:42.990 --> 00:53:46.600 align:middle line:84% difficult. When you go somewhere, 00:53:46.600 --> 00:53:49.685 align:middle line:84% you don't even know who can buy the thing. 00:53:49.685 --> 00:53:51.560 align:middle line:84% You don't even know who you're selling it to. 00:53:51.560 --> 00:53:54.680 align:middle line:84% Now, there are people who do know who buys all these things. 00:53:54.680 --> 00:53:56.440 align:middle line:84% The only people in the United States 00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:58.750 align:middle line:84% who know for every school and every district who 00:53:58.750 --> 00:54:01.720 align:middle line:84% has the power to buy stuff are giant publishers. 00:54:01.720 --> 00:54:04.433 align:middle line:84% Pearson, Houghton Mifflin-- what was the company you work for? 00:54:04.433 --> 00:54:05.350 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: McGraw Hill. 00:54:05.350 --> 00:54:06.170 align:middle line:90% JUSTIN REICH: McGraw Hill. 00:54:06.170 --> 00:54:06.670 align:middle line:90% Perfect. 00:54:06.670 --> 00:54:08.390 align:middle line:84% They have an army of salespeople. 00:54:08.390 --> 00:54:11.620 align:middle line:84% This army of salespeople have fanned out across the 13,000 00:54:11.620 --> 00:54:14.278 align:middle line:84% school districts and once a month, once a quarter, 00:54:14.278 --> 00:54:16.820 align:middle line:84% all the people who I just listed who can actually buy things, 00:54:16.820 --> 00:54:17.987 align:middle line:90% they take them out to lunch. 00:54:17.987 --> 00:54:19.280 align:middle line:90% They bring them free supplies. 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:20.928 align:middle line:90% They do all that stuff. 00:54:20.928 --> 00:54:22.970 align:middle line:84% They probably don't have a master list somewhere. 00:54:22.970 --> 00:54:24.100 align:middle line:84% Instead, they have all these salespeople 00:54:24.100 --> 00:54:25.930 align:middle line:84% who know the answer to these questions. 00:54:25.930 --> 00:54:28.420 align:middle line:84% So if you're a Silicon Valley startup and you're like, 00:54:28.420 --> 00:54:30.673 align:middle line:84% oh, I've got this new AI thing I'm building. 00:54:30.673 --> 00:54:31.340 align:middle line:90% It's super cool. 00:54:31.340 --> 00:54:31.860 align:middle line:90% Da, da, da. 00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:35.560 align:middle line:84% You don't have this massive network of sales connections 00:54:35.560 --> 00:54:37.943 align:middle line:90% to help you figure this out. 00:54:37.943 --> 00:54:39.610 align:middle line:84% One of my favorite illustrations of this 00:54:39.610 --> 00:54:42.762 align:middle line:84% is at a bunch of education technology conferences-- 00:54:42.762 --> 00:54:44.470 align:middle line:84% how many of you ever been to a conference 00:54:44.470 --> 00:54:46.965 align:middle line:90% where you have a badge, right? 00:54:46.965 --> 00:54:48.590 align:middle line:84% And you can put stickers on your badges 00:54:48.590 --> 00:54:49.680 align:middle line:90% or other things like this. 00:54:49.680 --> 00:54:52.020 align:middle line:84% Basically one of the stickers you can put on your badge-- 00:54:52.020 --> 00:54:53.810 align:middle line:84% you can put your pronouns, you can put some other things 00:54:53.810 --> 00:54:54.310 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:54:54.310 --> 00:54:56.130 align:middle line:90% You can put buyer. 00:54:56.130 --> 00:54:57.740 align:middle line:84% You can basically signal to people, 00:54:57.740 --> 00:54:59.615 align:middle line:84% I actually have the power to purchase things. 00:54:59.615 --> 00:55:03.670 align:middle line:90% 00:55:03.670 --> 00:55:05.970 align:middle line:84% When you walk through the exhibit hall, 00:55:05.970 --> 00:55:08.000 align:middle line:84% they will pay more attention to the people who 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:09.500 align:middle line:84% have the little buyer things on them 00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:12.560 align:middle line:84% than they will to critical social science researcher 00:55:12.560 --> 00:55:15.870 align:middle line:84% badge is put on your thing or something like that. 00:55:15.870 --> 00:55:18.200 align:middle line:84% So here are some things that you should take away. 00:55:18.200 --> 00:55:19.920 align:middle line:84% The systems are incredibly complicated. 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.140 align:middle line:84% There are all kinds of stakeholders in them. 00:55:22.140 --> 00:55:24.570 align:middle line:84% But they are they're not so infinite, 00:55:24.570 --> 00:55:26.270 align:middle line:84% they're not so complex that we can't 00:55:26.270 --> 00:55:28.910 align:middle line:84% make a chart that manages and starts 00:55:28.910 --> 00:55:30.300 align:middle line:90% to understand all these things. 00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:35.100 align:middle line:84% But as we move forward and as we look at more-- 00:55:35.100 --> 00:55:37.558 align:middle line:84% a thing that you can do in any kind of education technology 00:55:37.558 --> 00:55:39.933 align:middle line:84% problem, any educational setting, and be like, all right, 00:55:39.933 --> 00:55:42.300 align:middle line:84% who are going to be the stakeholders for this problem, 00:55:42.300 --> 00:55:45.680 align:middle line:84% this thing, and what are they going to be their interests? 00:55:45.680 --> 00:55:48.910 align:middle line:84% And again, not just their official interests, 00:55:48.910 --> 00:55:50.550 align:middle line:84% their official state policy interests 00:55:50.550 --> 00:55:52.800 align:middle line:84% is to raise test scores or something like that. 00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:55.470 align:middle line:84% But one of my favorite examples we're talking about 00:55:55.470 --> 00:55:59.460 align:middle line:84% is televisions were more likely to be used at the end of the day 00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:01.200 align:middle line:90% because people were tired. 00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:04.110 align:middle line:84% Like, your body's circadian rhythm 00:56:04.110 --> 00:56:06.870 align:middle line:84% indicates how technologies be used in classroom. 00:56:06.870 --> 00:56:08.650 align:middle line:90% That is just as real. 00:56:08.650 --> 00:56:10.980 align:middle line:84% It is just as real as the policy mandate 00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.460 align:middle line:84% to raise test scores or the school board's 00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:17.370 align:middle line:84% enthusiasm for technology or whatever it is. 00:56:17.370 --> 00:56:20.610 align:middle line:84% And so in any kind of system, we can figure out 00:56:20.610 --> 00:56:22.470 align:middle line:84% who are the stakeholders in the system, what 00:56:22.470 --> 00:56:23.880 align:middle line:84% are the interests of those things, what 00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:24.850 align:middle line:90% are the disinterests. 00:56:24.850 --> 00:56:27.540 align:middle line:84% A thing is more likely to work if it attends 00:56:27.540 --> 00:56:31.180 align:middle line:84% to those real, meaningful, felt interests, 00:56:31.180 --> 00:56:34.360 align:middle line:84% and if it avoids those real, meaningful, felt disinterests. 00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:37.110 align:middle line:84% And of course, we're doing this in a very detailed way 00:56:37.110 --> 00:56:38.050 align:middle line:90% in education. 00:56:38.050 --> 00:56:39.840 align:middle line:84% But if you were to leave education 00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.680 align:middle line:84% and you were to go into health care, 00:56:41.680 --> 00:56:43.510 align:middle line:84% if you were to go into legal technology, 00:56:43.510 --> 00:56:46.415 align:middle line:84% if you were going to retail, you can do the exact same exercise. 00:56:46.415 --> 00:56:48.540 align:middle line:84% The technology that you're building for a hospital, 00:56:48.540 --> 00:56:49.998 align:middle line:84% it has to work for a doctor, but it 00:56:49.998 --> 00:56:52.290 align:middle line:84% has to work for a nurse and an orderly and a patient 00:56:52.290 --> 00:56:54.630 align:middle line:84% and the patient's representative and the hospital's 00:56:54.630 --> 00:56:57.420 align:middle line:84% lawyers and all these different kinds of people. 00:56:57.420 --> 00:57:00.000 align:middle line:84% And so on the one hand, especially when people 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.510 align:middle line:84% are designers of software, we can have the sense of, oh, I'm 00:57:03.510 --> 00:57:04.780 align:middle line:90% building things for a user. 00:57:04.780 --> 00:57:06.863 align:middle line:84% I'm building things for this individual user who's 00:57:06.863 --> 00:57:08.947 align:middle line:84% got their fingers on their keyboard or their thumb 00:57:08.947 --> 00:57:10.500 align:middle line:84% on the screen or something like that. 00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:11.760 align:middle line:84% But I would encourage you, as we're 00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:13.177 align:middle line:84% thinking through all these things, 00:57:13.177 --> 00:57:15.960 align:middle line:84% to think about these networks of interests and stakeholders 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.220 align:middle line:90% much more broadly. 00:57:17.220 --> 00:57:18.420 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:21.550 align:middle line:84% We'll talk to some education school deans on Wednesday. 00:57:21.550 --> 00:57:23.835 align:middle line:84% We'll learn a little bit about implementation, 00:57:23.835 --> 00:57:25.960 align:middle line:84% how you overcome some of these kinds of challenges. 00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:28.502 align:middle line:84% From me, we'll hear a little bit about the National Education 00:57:28.502 --> 00:57:31.530 align:middle line:84% Technology plan, and I will pair you up with each other 00:57:31.530 --> 00:57:35.087 align:middle line:84% to be able to do some peer editing of your essays. 00:57:35.087 --> 00:57:36.670 align:middle line:84% And that will get us through the week. 00:57:36.670 --> 00:57:37.470 align:middle line:90% Sound good? 00:57:37.470 --> 00:57:38.130 align:middle line:90% Bueno. 00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:39.963 align:middle line:84% Let me know if I can help you with anything. 00:57:39.963 --> 00:57:42.770 align:middle line:84% Otherwise, have a wonderful rest of your afternoon. 00:57:42.770 --> 00:57:45.000 align:middle line:90%