1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,470 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:03,880 Commons license. 3 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,920 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,570 offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,570 --> 00:00:13,470 To make a donation or view additional materials from 6 00:00:13,470 --> 00:00:19,300 hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 7 00:00:19,300 --> 00:00:20,790 ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:20,790 --> 00:00:24,290 Some content in this audio is not covered under a Creative 9 00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:25,780 Commons license. 10 00:00:25,780 --> 00:00:29,790 For more information, see the course materials on the MIT 11 00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:31,320 OpenCourseWare website. 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,160 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 13 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:36,210 and we will spend the next couple of weeks grading them. 14 00:00:36,210 --> 00:00:39,440 But that was pretty fun on Friday so [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 15 00:00:43,370 --> 00:00:45,560 We've been talking these past couple of weeks-- 16 00:00:50,290 --> 00:00:53,380 we've been talking the past couple of weeks about serious 17 00:00:53,380 --> 00:00:57,624 games, games for education, games as an art form, as a 18 00:00:57,624 --> 00:00:58,440 means of expression. 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,280 And we're going to be continuing some of those 20 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,220 discussions later on. 21 00:01:03,220 --> 00:01:06,660 But the whole idea is to sort of give you, to sort of prep 22 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:09,620 you, for a situation where you're going to make a game 23 00:01:09,620 --> 00:01:10,360 for a client. 24 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,400 And for this last assignment, you're actually going to be 25 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,596 making a game based on a problem that Lisa is going to 26 00:01:16,596 --> 00:01:17,846 be talking about. 27 00:01:21,090 --> 00:01:22,490 GUEST SPEAKER 1: My name is Jim [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 28 00:01:22,490 --> 00:01:24,240 I'm a clinical psychologist. 29 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:24,720 I work at-- 30 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,960 I was at Beth Israel, I'm just starting at Brigham and 31 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:31,250 Women's Hospital, one of the Harvard mafia hospitals. 32 00:01:31,250 --> 00:01:39,240 And my area is using interactive media for clinical 33 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:40,780 training but especially for 34 00:01:40,780 --> 00:01:42,196 treatment of clinical problems. 35 00:01:42,196 --> 00:01:45,300 So we make computer programs to help treat clinical 36 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:47,392 disorders in psychology. 37 00:01:47,392 --> 00:01:50,368 GUEST SPEAKER 2: It's my turn to stand up. 38 00:01:50,368 --> 00:01:51,860 I'm [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 39 00:01:51,860 --> 00:01:53,590 I'm a psychiatrist at UMass. 40 00:01:53,590 --> 00:01:56,529 I trained in the same place like Jim used 41 00:01:56,529 --> 00:01:58,994 to work, Beth Israel. 42 00:01:58,994 --> 00:02:01,952 And my focus is primarily clinical. 43 00:02:01,952 --> 00:02:06,389 I'm an attending psychiatrist in a variety of settings, 44 00:02:06,389 --> 00:02:07,375 inpatient, outpatient. 45 00:02:07,375 --> 00:02:11,430 And what I brought up to Jim and then Phillip was a 46 00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:17,540 practical question that I will try to present, which is 47 00:02:17,540 --> 00:02:21,374 helping psychiatry residents deal with angry, agitated, and 48 00:02:21,374 --> 00:02:24,350 potentially [UNINTELLIGIBLE] patients. 49 00:02:24,350 --> 00:02:30,804 Later this is a significant and largely unknown issue. 50 00:02:30,804 --> 00:02:35,784 Certainly the research is picking up, and we don't quite 51 00:02:35,784 --> 00:02:37,278 understand the extent of the problem. 52 00:02:37,278 --> 00:02:39,270 And but I'll say more. 53 00:02:39,270 --> 00:02:41,770 I'll save it for our presentation. 54 00:02:41,770 --> 00:02:44,060 Thank you for coming here. 55 00:02:44,060 --> 00:02:48,780 PROFESSOR: So when they contacted me, there was the 56 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:51,565 usual interest in trying to make some sort of digital 57 00:02:51,565 --> 00:02:55,629 piece of software to help the training residents in learning 58 00:02:55,629 --> 00:03:02,260 how to deal with violence in mental institutions. 59 00:03:02,260 --> 00:03:06,120 And immediately the first thing that I thought, well 60 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,940 before we jump right into digital, let's try doing 61 00:03:07,940 --> 00:03:09,900 something in analog first. 62 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:12,740 Let's try prototyping something first. 63 00:03:12,740 --> 00:03:16,316 But it also occurred to me that, in the real world of 64 00:03:16,316 --> 00:03:20,950 game design, there's actually a lot more jobs in game design 65 00:03:20,950 --> 00:03:23,680 outside of the game industry than inside the game industry. 66 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,100 There are a lot of companies out there that are basically 67 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:27,800 looking for solutions. 68 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,700 Some of which may be games. 69 00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:35,290 And you might end up working in some of those capacities. 70 00:03:35,290 --> 00:03:37,200 A lot of folks in advertising for instance 71 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,715 are involved in games. 72 00:03:38,715 --> 00:03:41,880 A lot of folks who are interested in improving 73 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:47,980 teaching methods, or improving simulations, working on-- 74 00:03:47,980 --> 00:03:51,860 trying to think of an example-- 75 00:03:51,860 --> 00:03:53,730 public awareness. 76 00:03:53,730 --> 00:04:00,910 And people who are also now working in website design and 77 00:04:00,910 --> 00:04:04,200 in various online services, who are trying to think about 78 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,010 how to make their experiences a little bit more game like. 79 00:04:07,010 --> 00:04:09,580 There are really really good ways of doing that, and there 80 00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:11,460 are really really bad ways of doing that. 81 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:14,780 And for the most part what we're hoping is that, if you 82 00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:16,538 end up getting one of those jobs, you're going to be able 83 00:04:16,538 --> 00:04:19,440 to bring some of your personal insight as having actually 84 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,015 done game design, as opposed to just copying what games 85 00:04:23,015 --> 00:04:27,217 have done, and just assuming, well, it kind of looks like a 86 00:04:27,217 --> 00:04:28,250 game, therefore it is a game. 87 00:04:28,250 --> 00:04:32,460 You guys know that now. 88 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:35,910 So this is kind of get your feet wet, in terms of 89 00:04:35,910 --> 00:04:41,170 designing something, designing for somebody else's needs. 90 00:04:41,170 --> 00:04:45,080 The important thing to keep in mind is, who is going to be 91 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,740 playing your game, or who's this game intended for. 92 00:04:48,740 --> 00:04:51,640 And in what context are they going to be playing your game. 93 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,710 One of the particular problems that you're trying to address, 94 00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:56,030 what's the part of the system that 95 00:04:56,030 --> 00:04:58,690 you're trying to simulate. 96 00:04:58,690 --> 00:05:05,040 And what kinds of insights do you hope people are going to 97 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,010 get out of that. 98 00:05:06,010 --> 00:05:08,060 The problem they're going to talk about it huge. 99 00:05:08,060 --> 00:05:10,650 If you noticed I uploaded actually four readings to the 100 00:05:10,650 --> 00:05:12,630 class website. 101 00:05:12,630 --> 00:05:15,220 Only one of them is required, but all of them are useful. 102 00:05:15,220 --> 00:05:16,670 I will be uploading more. 103 00:05:16,670 --> 00:05:19,780 These are all reference material for the team to use 104 00:05:19,780 --> 00:05:21,370 however you wish. 105 00:05:21,370 --> 00:05:24,080 Because the problem is so huge and vast, you don't have to 106 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:24,910 solve the whole problem. 107 00:05:24,910 --> 00:05:27,870 You pick one thing that you're excited about, that you're 108 00:05:27,870 --> 00:05:29,690 interested about, and that you think that you might have a 109 00:05:29,690 --> 00:05:31,950 good strategy. 110 00:05:31,950 --> 00:05:32,940 Do the usual brainstorm. 111 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:35,277 We're going to be going through brainstorming and team 112 00:05:35,277 --> 00:05:37,980 selection pretty much just this week. 113 00:05:40,540 --> 00:05:44,445 And try to identify some small part that might be addressable 114 00:05:44,445 --> 00:05:48,205 with a card game or a board game, or I'll talk a little 115 00:05:48,205 --> 00:05:51,442 bit about role-playing games in a couple of weeks. 116 00:05:51,442 --> 00:05:54,680 So with that being said I'm going to turn 117 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,000 it over to you guys. 118 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,298 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK so we'll try to take turns to talk 119 00:06:02,298 --> 00:06:08,250 about violence in psychiatry, in particular. 120 00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:12,370 So as Jim has pointed out, violence is a large issue. 121 00:06:12,370 --> 00:06:17,260 What I'm going to try to focus on, as I mentioned earlier, 122 00:06:17,260 --> 00:06:19,676 rather than engaging with psychiatric patients, 123 00:06:19,676 --> 00:06:22,634 especially psychiatric patients on an inpatient 124 00:06:22,634 --> 00:06:30,980 program, which is where the question for me came from. 125 00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:36,330 And obviously violence can be looked at in 126 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:38,280 a variety of ways. 127 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:43,596 And I think in one of the handouts that I sent to 128 00:06:43,596 --> 00:06:49,045 Philip, Violence in Mental Illness, they talk about the 129 00:06:49,045 --> 00:06:52,496 biological, psychological theories that the social 130 00:06:52,496 --> 00:06:57,919 dimension of violence and how it can be understood. 131 00:06:57,919 --> 00:07:02,370 If you look at the human development, and no matter 132 00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:04,934 what theory you consider, either a traditional 133 00:07:04,934 --> 00:07:10,000 drive-based theory like Freud or Erikson's stages, each 134 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:16,370 seems to define a certain developmental goal, and often, 135 00:07:16,370 --> 00:07:20,330 achieving or achieving in a faulty way that goal can 136 00:07:20,330 --> 00:07:24,128 create potential for aggression 137 00:07:24,128 --> 00:07:26,900 and sometimes violence. 138 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:32,340 A little child or an adult who's dependent or needs are 139 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:39,312 frustrated may try to takeover and get those met, in one way 140 00:07:39,312 --> 00:07:40,980 or another. 141 00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:46,752 So what I use as a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] metaphor for 142 00:07:46,752 --> 00:07:51,750 the origins of violence is a communication breakdown. 143 00:07:51,750 --> 00:07:56,286 At some level, something doesn't happen right between 144 00:07:56,286 --> 00:08:02,130 the person who gets angry and those around him or her. 145 00:08:02,130 --> 00:08:06,080 So in a most generic way, basically communication is 146 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,045 less about who says what to whom, than in what channel, 147 00:08:10,045 --> 00:08:12,440 and with what affect. 148 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,606 The breakdown can occur at many levels. 149 00:08:14,606 --> 00:08:18,078 Again, this is the generic form. 150 00:08:18,078 --> 00:08:19,250 I hope I'll [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 151 00:08:19,250 --> 00:08:20,170 what I mean. 152 00:08:20,170 --> 00:08:25,320 And especially what can be done at a practical level, 153 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,644 let's say when you are the resident on call at night. 154 00:08:28,644 --> 00:08:31,787 And the staff calls you up and says so and so is getting out 155 00:08:31,787 --> 00:08:32,549 of control. 156 00:08:32,549 --> 00:08:36,747 She's raising her voice, threatening, pounding walls, 157 00:08:36,747 --> 00:08:38,580 wanting to get out, refusing medications. 158 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:40,860 How do you approach such a person? 159 00:08:40,860 --> 00:08:42,780 And again, the intervention can happen 160 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:43,500 at different levels. 161 00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:50,190 And actually one goal of the training, or potentially the 162 00:08:50,190 --> 00:08:54,090 game that you might consider, is what to do. 163 00:08:54,090 --> 00:08:58,390 How do you establish when do you engage fully, by yourself, 164 00:08:58,390 --> 00:09:01,670 with outside help, when intervention is minimal and 165 00:09:01,670 --> 00:09:06,560 you just bring pens with you, restrain the patient, use 166 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:07,350 pharmacology. 167 00:09:07,350 --> 00:09:08,640 So it's a continuum of interventions. 168 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,038 I'm going to just focus on what to do when you can 169 00:09:12,038 --> 00:09:15,950 actually engage the patient. 170 00:09:15,950 --> 00:09:21,060 Again, continuing the metaphor is what Walter Fisher has 171 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:26,970 described as this type of narrative, rationality, as 172 00:09:26,970 --> 00:09:32,930 opposed to the traditional rational paradigm that defines 173 00:09:32,930 --> 00:09:41,190 people as thinking beings that actually do make decisions and 174 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:43,855 base their actions on evidential reasoning. 175 00:09:43,855 --> 00:09:45,810 Or rational people. 176 00:09:45,810 --> 00:09:47,016 We analyze the situation. 177 00:09:47,016 --> 00:09:50,130 We come up with the best possible outcome. 178 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:54,170 Walter Fisher talks about that fact that we are all 179 00:09:54,170 --> 00:09:58,040 storytellers, that we try to interact and understand others 180 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,990 based on the narrative that we have about 181 00:10:00,990 --> 00:10:02,445 ourselves and about others. 182 00:10:02,445 --> 00:10:04,870 My assumption, and again, this is just the introductory 183 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:09,800 metaphor if you want, that at some point violence can be 184 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,830 caused by a disruption in this narrative. 185 00:10:14,830 --> 00:10:16,330 Things don't make sense anymore. 186 00:10:16,330 --> 00:10:18,840 We feel misunderstood. 187 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,650 We feel the victim of an injustice. 188 00:10:21,650 --> 00:10:25,488 And that those principles apply to somebody who is 189 00:10:25,488 --> 00:10:26,721 struggling with a mental illness. 190 00:10:26,721 --> 00:10:31,158 Where things have a much narrower window of opportunity 191 00:10:31,158 --> 00:10:34,273 than for people who are able to flexibly adapt to the 192 00:10:34,273 --> 00:10:35,523 demands of reality. 193 00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:44,250 So we all know who this is, and the reason I put it up-- 194 00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:48,606 and I have to admit I haven't looked into the copyright, I 195 00:10:48,606 --> 00:10:52,610 know there are longer and longer copyright rules for 196 00:10:52,610 --> 00:10:56,440 using cartoons, so you'll have to forgive me. 197 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,820 My point is that this is an angry person. 198 00:10:59,820 --> 00:11:02,840 And as someone who is communicating. 199 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,540 I think we get quickly and clearly the fact that his 200 00:11:07,540 --> 00:11:09,744 emotional range may be intense, 201 00:11:09,744 --> 00:11:10,648 but it's fairly narrow. 202 00:11:10,648 --> 00:11:15,200 It doesn't cover like a spectrum. 203 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,560 And the communication is fairly simple. 204 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:18,670 He's in distress. 205 00:11:18,670 --> 00:11:23,080 He is imposing his point of view, his space. 206 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:28,843 He could become very aggressive and assaultive. 207 00:11:28,843 --> 00:11:31,880 I think that the language is very simplistic. 208 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,010 How would we approach the Hulk in trying to calm him down and 209 00:11:35,010 --> 00:11:36,756 change his color? 210 00:11:36,756 --> 00:11:40,172 That's the end of my introductory metaphor. 211 00:11:43,588 --> 00:11:47,492 And please, feel free to interrupt, jump in, and make 212 00:11:47,492 --> 00:11:53,860 this presentation as long or as short as you want me to. 213 00:11:53,860 --> 00:11:57,430 There are many slides, but I'm not going to go through every 214 00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:58,259 single line. 215 00:11:58,259 --> 00:12:01,241 I'm just using this as a stimulus for the conversation 216 00:12:01,241 --> 00:12:03,229 especially from your perspective 217 00:12:03,229 --> 00:12:05,217 and from your needs. 218 00:12:05,217 --> 00:12:08,199 As I said, I'm a clinical provider, I'm a psychiatrist. 219 00:12:08,199 --> 00:12:12,843 I deal with patients all the time, many of whom are angry 220 00:12:12,843 --> 00:12:15,810 or potentially angry or potentially assaultive. 221 00:12:15,810 --> 00:12:19,715 And I may do things after so many years instinctively. 222 00:12:19,715 --> 00:12:23,042 But sometimes I have to think through, OK, this is the 223 00:12:23,042 --> 00:12:26,935 situation, how do I do to maximize the benefit for the 224 00:12:26,935 --> 00:12:29,273 patient I'm treating and to keep myself safe. 225 00:12:29,273 --> 00:12:32,908 I've been assaulted just once, in 15 years. 226 00:12:32,908 --> 00:12:36,150 It was like in the movies. 227 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:41,021 A VA patient, former Green Beret, who got upset with the 228 00:12:41,021 --> 00:12:46,865 system, and picked up a very heavy armchair and lifted it 229 00:12:46,865 --> 00:12:48,813 above his head. 230 00:12:48,813 --> 00:12:52,130 And we established eye contact then. 231 00:12:52,130 --> 00:12:54,770 I think he wondered, what should I do with this puny 232 00:12:54,770 --> 00:12:55,422 little doctor? 233 00:12:55,422 --> 00:12:58,120 Should I squash him or not? 234 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,530 And at the end, I guess it was a last, you know, split second 235 00:13:02,530 --> 00:13:05,298 moment, he decided to throw it to my side. 236 00:13:05,298 --> 00:13:09,561 A large section of the wall came down, so I was looking at 237 00:13:09,561 --> 00:13:11,780 it wondering, well I could have been 238 00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:12,766 that wall coming down. 239 00:13:12,766 --> 00:13:13,259 He ran out. 240 00:13:13,259 --> 00:13:15,724 It took him a while-- 241 00:13:15,724 --> 00:13:18,190 for people to catch up with him. 242 00:13:18,190 --> 00:13:21,910 And two cruisers full of police officers to subdue him. 243 00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:25,540 So I guess, no communication there. 244 00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:27,440 He was just subdued. 245 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,720 What's the magnitude of the problem? 246 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,160 I think it's substantial. 247 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,435 And actually more than 10 years ago, there were some 248 00:13:34,435 --> 00:13:41,079 isolated reports of how significant the problem was in 249 00:13:41,079 --> 00:13:42,850 terms of the trainees, and especially psychiatry 250 00:13:42,850 --> 00:13:50,724 trainees, being the target of verbal and physical violence. 251 00:13:50,724 --> 00:13:54,265 On this first page I talk about medical 252 00:13:54,265 --> 00:13:56,680 students in one study. 253 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,612 Numbers are relatively small. 254 00:13:58,612 --> 00:14:05,820 But again, the study is 14 years old. 255 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:08,790 A survey of psychiatry residents showed that assaults 256 00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:13,550 or threats of violence are clearly one of the most 257 00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:15,010 difficult events in their training. 258 00:14:15,010 --> 00:14:18,226 And some were wondering introspectively if this is the 259 00:14:18,226 --> 00:14:19,680 right field for them. 260 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,585 Actually some students may wonder reading this literature 261 00:14:22,585 --> 00:14:24,740 whether psychiatry is the right field 262 00:14:24,740 --> 00:14:27,620 for them to go into. 263 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:35,456 And as you see in the fourth article, almost two-thirds of 264 00:14:35,456 --> 00:14:38,414 psychiatry residents were assaulted at least once during 265 00:14:38,414 --> 00:14:40,400 their training. 266 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,520 And obviously like with any dangerous situation, the risk 267 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,925 of post-traumatic symptoms can be substantial. 268 00:14:46,925 --> 00:14:52,660 Either acute stress response or longer lasting issues. 269 00:14:52,660 --> 00:14:57,804 The idea of improving their training and their ability to 270 00:14:57,804 --> 00:15:01,850 deal with the situation has multiple benefits. 271 00:15:01,850 --> 00:15:04,523 Those who know what to do are never or 272 00:15:04,523 --> 00:15:05,490 almost never assaulted. 273 00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:09,758 Not only that, if they happened to be exposed, the 274 00:15:09,758 --> 00:15:12,026 likelihood of developing post-traumatic goes down 275 00:15:12,026 --> 00:15:12,512 significantly. 276 00:15:12,512 --> 00:15:16,400 So I don't think I need to demonstrate 277 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:17,858 that point any further. 278 00:15:17,858 --> 00:15:21,510 The assault rate in a more [UNINTELLIGIBLE] relatively 279 00:15:21,510 --> 00:15:26,846 recent study, 10 years old, pretty old, you see that 280 00:15:26,846 --> 00:15:31,520 overall the number of assault rate was 30% to 40%. 281 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,256 Men tended to be slightly more physically 282 00:15:34,256 --> 00:15:35,714 assaulted than women. 283 00:15:35,714 --> 00:15:39,602 AUDIENCE: Can you define what assault means, exactly? 284 00:15:39,602 --> 00:15:41,060 What qualifies as assault? 285 00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:44,766 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Assault basically means kind of laying 286 00:15:44,766 --> 00:15:46,590 hands on the person. 287 00:15:46,590 --> 00:15:51,680 And the assault resulting in an injury, of any kind. 288 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,890 Skin being kind of broken through or-- 289 00:15:56,890 --> 00:15:59,245 AUDIENCE: Just holding the clinician 290 00:15:59,245 --> 00:16:00,335 wouldn't be an assault? 291 00:16:00,335 --> 00:16:02,938 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well it would be an assault because that 292 00:16:02,938 --> 00:16:08,090 kind of grabbing action could actually result in injury. 293 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:13,614 And I think it would be probably very limiting to talk 294 00:16:13,614 --> 00:16:15,240 only about physical injuries, especially since the 295 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,386 psychological consequences are often the longer lasting and 296 00:16:19,386 --> 00:16:22,230 much more significant. 297 00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:25,230 I think what the surveys have shown also is that how 298 00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:29,990 unprepared trainees in the mental health and outside the 299 00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:31,150 mental health field are actually. 300 00:16:31,150 --> 00:16:34,860 Often this is reduced to a few lectures, especially during 301 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:36,150 orientation. 302 00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:40,970 And then they are thrown into the lion cage and they learn 303 00:16:40,970 --> 00:16:42,790 on the job. 304 00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:47,050 And many of these findings are introspective. 305 00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:51,220 Many trainees felt that well, I didn't say anything, because 306 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:54,310 I thought I was supposed to toughen up and bite the bullet 307 00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:55,190 and move on. 308 00:16:55,190 --> 00:16:58,240 Or this is part of the job, I chose this, it's my fault. 309 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,050 Or maybe I did something wrong. 310 00:17:00,050 --> 00:17:03,580 Maybe I was the one who made it so the assault happened. 311 00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:09,450 So a lot of reasons that were just, again, not looked into. 312 00:17:09,450 --> 00:17:10,314 Fear of being scrutinized. 313 00:17:10,314 --> 00:17:12,500 How come that I'm the one that was 314 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:16,119 assaulted, and not 10 trainees. 315 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,869 How I'm going to explain this. 316 00:17:17,869 --> 00:17:20,324 I was so frightened that I cannot even remember clearly 317 00:17:20,324 --> 00:17:20,730 what happened to me. 318 00:17:20,730 --> 00:17:22,670 So there are a variety of reasons why 319 00:17:22,670 --> 00:17:24,170 people who are in training-- 320 00:17:24,170 --> 00:17:28,310 and again, I'm focusing on a again a very small segment, a 321 00:17:28,310 --> 00:17:31,232 specific group of trainees in medical 322 00:17:31,232 --> 00:17:32,206 and psychiatric training. 323 00:17:32,206 --> 00:17:35,615 But I could easily think of other situations of people who 324 00:17:35,615 --> 00:17:38,605 are exposed to the potential for violence and where such 325 00:17:38,605 --> 00:17:40,880 training would be helpful. 326 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:46,026 Up until now, and for the most part the data that I was able 327 00:17:46,026 --> 00:17:48,882 to collect, and most people in looking at this have been able 328 00:17:48,882 --> 00:17:51,270 to collect is fairly limited. 329 00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:53,890 There are certain limited number of programs. 330 00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:56,760 Methodologically the research is quite faulty. 331 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:03,160 You can just talk about how limited the generalizability 332 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:03,965 of the findings are. 333 00:18:03,965 --> 00:18:06,585 And often people have talked about what 334 00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:07,680 happened in the past. 335 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,772 So clearly the recall bias is a major limiting factor in 336 00:18:11,772 --> 00:18:15,120 understanding what happened. 337 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,980 Also, as Jim asked me, so how do you define assault. 338 00:18:18,980 --> 00:18:21,860 One of the biggest problems with most research in this 339 00:18:21,860 --> 00:18:26,774 field is that defining assault, aggression, is done 340 00:18:26,774 --> 00:18:29,330 in very idiosyncratic ways. 341 00:18:29,330 --> 00:18:31,955 It's hard to compare different studies. 342 00:18:34,902 --> 00:18:39,790 So this is a compilation of what people in different areas 343 00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:42,460 have thought about in terms of improving 344 00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:43,860 the psychiatric training. 345 00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:49,886 And as you see most often, in the last few years, the idea 346 00:18:49,886 --> 00:18:56,590 of using simulation to expose the trainees to a protected 347 00:18:56,590 --> 00:19:00,320 environment that has clearly defined boundaries and 348 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,297 consequences, and basically that can be repeated almost in 349 00:19:05,297 --> 00:19:09,225 identical fashion in order to gain proficiency, this coming 350 00:19:09,225 --> 00:19:12,171 up more and more. 351 00:19:12,171 --> 00:19:16,410 What many training programs are doing is to use 352 00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:20,076 standardized patients that use actors. 353 00:19:20,076 --> 00:19:23,338 And that of course would behave in 354 00:19:23,338 --> 00:19:26,720 a programmed fashion. 355 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,810 They make get up to you and make fists, but hopefully 356 00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:32,980 they'll not get so much into the role and then they're 357 00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:33,755 punching you. 358 00:19:33,755 --> 00:19:37,420 GUEST SPEAKER 1: I think this is the real challenge, is that 359 00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:40,271 there's different levels of learning. 360 00:19:40,271 --> 00:19:42,320 You can learn kind of a list of facts, things to do if your 361 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,270 patient starts to get agitated and threatening. 362 00:19:44,270 --> 00:19:46,970 And you can learn how to take a test on it and forget it the 363 00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:49,020 next day, especially if it doesn't come up 364 00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:51,110 for you right away. 365 00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:53,400 And then there's the question of internalizing it so you 366 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,380 actually have not just kind of a working knowledge but really 367 00:19:56,380 --> 00:19:58,140 understand what you should do in different kinds of 368 00:19:58,140 --> 00:19:59,540 circumstances. 369 00:19:59,540 --> 00:20:03,270 And that's where the idea of role playing with live role 370 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:04,440 plays for the trainees-- 371 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,960 it could be residents, and mental health providers-- 372 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,390 can really be helpful so they have some sense, some 373 00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:15,120 semblance of this kind of training. 374 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,180 But the tricky things with these role plays is it's not 375 00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:23,490 easy to ensure that everybody receives high quality access 376 00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:25,270 to well trained actors. 377 00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:28,310 Here at Harvard Medical School, they probably do. 378 00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:29,610 At UMass, they probably do. 379 00:20:29,610 --> 00:20:30,850 But there's a lot of places. 380 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:33,122 And if you expand beyond psychiatry to every mental 381 00:20:33,122 --> 00:20:35,560 health center in the country, every caseworker who is going 382 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,720 out to visit a patient at their home, or social worker, 383 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,310 they're definitely not getting this kind of training. 384 00:20:41,310 --> 00:20:45,510 And so the ones who really I think you said before are 385 00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:46,940 really well trained are the nurses, actually. 386 00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:49,090 Because they get a different kind of training that's really 387 00:20:49,090 --> 00:20:50,980 pretty effective, it sounds like. 388 00:20:50,980 --> 00:20:52,870 But the mental health care providers 389 00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:53,900 often have no training. 390 00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:55,980 And then they're the ones who are kind of in a closed room 391 00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:59,040 with the person who can become really violent. 392 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,665 Especially if it's at their home, or an inpatient unit. 393 00:21:01,665 --> 00:21:03,750 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Jim was making reference to that 394 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:07,000 psychiatrist at MGH who last year was stabbed by a patient 395 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,650 in the outpatient clinic. 396 00:21:08,650 --> 00:21:10,475 GUEST SPEAKER 1: You all hear about this last year? 397 00:21:10,475 --> 00:21:12,295 Can you just describe the situation? 398 00:21:12,295 --> 00:21:14,826 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well, it was late in the evening, when most 399 00:21:14,826 --> 00:21:17,230 things like this have the potential of happening. 400 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:22,620 This was a neuro evaluation or [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 401 00:21:22,620 --> 00:21:25,490 in the Bipolar Clinic at MGH. 402 00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:31,333 Basically he was angry from the beginning and was able to 403 00:21:31,333 --> 00:21:32,800 stab repeatedly. 404 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,280 An off guard person who just happened to walk by. 405 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,720 GUEST SPEAKER 1: It was a police officer, right? 406 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:38,290 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Yeah. 407 00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:41,360 He was one of the security people for 408 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:42,360 that particular clinic. 409 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,340 He came and he had a gun. 410 00:21:44,340 --> 00:21:47,830 I don't know how often off-duty security people carry 411 00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:49,240 their guns. 412 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,130 But he opened and killed the patient. 413 00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:55,724 So he was charged. 414 00:21:55,724 --> 00:21:58,210 Eventually was cleared. 415 00:21:58,210 --> 00:21:59,690 For using excessive force. 416 00:21:59,690 --> 00:22:01,020 GUEST SPEAKER 1: What happened to the psychiatrist? 417 00:22:01,020 --> 00:22:03,686 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well, the psychiatrist was admitted into 418 00:22:03,686 --> 00:22:07,074 the hospital and required extensive surgeries. 419 00:22:07,074 --> 00:22:10,946 She was stabbed in the chest and in the neck. 420 00:22:10,946 --> 00:22:14,095 It was a fairly gruesome-- she survived and I think she's 421 00:22:14,095 --> 00:22:14,940 back at work. 422 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:16,980 But this is an extreme case. 423 00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:21,450 And I'm afraid that many of the things that we talk about, 424 00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:23,800 the principles that we may come up with, may not 425 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,620 necessarily be so helpful, other than thinking back at a 426 00:22:28,620 --> 00:22:29,445 level of intervention. 427 00:22:29,445 --> 00:22:33,230 It is quite conceivable that for somebody who charges at 428 00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:36,066 you, you won't be able to talk him down, you won't be able to 429 00:22:36,066 --> 00:22:40,682 use any of the nice de-escalation principles that 430 00:22:40,682 --> 00:22:42,480 I'm going to talk about in a few minutes. 431 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,290 But, figuring out what do, I think it means 432 00:22:45,290 --> 00:22:45,982 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 433 00:22:45,982 --> 00:22:50,690 AUDIENCE: You mentioned that nurses have a different 434 00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:53,720 training system for this, and it seems to be effective. 435 00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:59,150 What is that training, like what is different about what 436 00:22:59,150 --> 00:23:00,386 nurses get taught? 437 00:23:00,386 --> 00:23:05,420 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well, there are some, in most states, 438 00:23:05,420 --> 00:23:11,484 there are some regulations that try to implement some 439 00:23:11,484 --> 00:23:14,412 level of training or are designed specifically for 440 00:23:14,412 --> 00:23:17,600 patients who get out of control. 441 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,430 And that's not only psychiatry. 442 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:25,595 Emergency room teams have probably the most highest rate 443 00:23:25,595 --> 00:23:29,640 of assaultive patients, across diagnostic departments. 444 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,278 Often psychiatric patients, especially patients using 445 00:23:32,278 --> 00:23:35,530 substance abuse, will get out of control. 446 00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:39,690 So if you want to become an emergency physician, or if you 447 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:42,649 work in the field as an EMT or another capacity, you'll have 448 00:23:42,649 --> 00:23:44,400 to deal with these situations. 449 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:50,460 What makes the nurses somewhat better trained is that they 450 00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:54,032 often are the frontline staff dealing with 451 00:23:54,032 --> 00:23:55,180 out of control patients. 452 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:57,478 And I think that's probably pretty sad, because physicians 453 00:23:57,478 --> 00:24:01,350 should be equally, and trainees, physicians and 454 00:24:01,350 --> 00:24:04,254 trainees should be equally well trained. 455 00:24:04,254 --> 00:24:08,580 But on the nursing front, there has been some progress. 456 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:11,170 In Massachusetts, the Department of Mental Health 457 00:24:11,170 --> 00:24:13,250 has some mandatory training. 458 00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:17,590 But there's a lot of red tape there, but there a lot of 459 00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:20,455 helpful aspects, including aspects 460 00:24:20,455 --> 00:24:23,412 related to stop attacks. 461 00:24:23,412 --> 00:24:28,410 And I wish I could have presented a recording of a 462 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:31,270 training session for staff. 463 00:24:31,270 --> 00:24:35,230 When I went to it, I thought it would be something like a 464 00:24:35,230 --> 00:24:37,593 very spectacular kind of kung-fu, how you do it. 465 00:24:37,593 --> 00:24:41,510 When in fact, the emphasis is how to keep yourself safe, and 466 00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:44,410 believe it or not how to keep the person safe, the person 467 00:24:44,410 --> 00:24:49,620 that you're blocking the punches, the person that may 468 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:55,040 be trying to strangle you, or keep you in a stronghold, or 469 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,750 scratch you, or rip your hair. 470 00:24:57,750 --> 00:25:00,170 Again, even when you're trying to be intervene or you're 471 00:25:00,170 --> 00:25:03,109 trying to protect yourself, and keep the 472 00:25:03,109 --> 00:25:04,558 other person safe. 473 00:25:04,558 --> 00:25:10,360 No punching, kicking, no kind of spectacular steps. 474 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:15,816 But again, that's also I feel could be an interesting topic 475 00:25:15,816 --> 00:25:17,812 for a simulation. 476 00:25:17,812 --> 00:25:20,806 How do you interact with-- 477 00:25:20,806 --> 00:25:24,299 especially since again I'm a totally kind of 478 00:25:24,299 --> 00:25:26,810 outsider in the field. 479 00:25:26,810 --> 00:25:31,020 Having kids, they were asking me the other day about 480 00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:32,270 Microsoft's Kinect. 481 00:25:34,190 --> 00:25:37,985 And I thought that was really interesting because the level 482 00:25:37,985 --> 00:25:43,890 of interaction with computer generated interfaces is very 483 00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:47,335 interesting, and certainly would be a safe bet to be 484 00:25:47,335 --> 00:25:50,245 attacked by somebody from the TV. 485 00:25:50,245 --> 00:25:54,530 AUDIENCE: It sounds like the nurses get better training 486 00:25:54,530 --> 00:25:58,840 because the states require them to have better training. 487 00:25:58,840 --> 00:25:59,760 GUEST SPEAKER 2: That's correct. 488 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:00,680 That's a part of it. 489 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,950 I've been trying at UMass to suggest that not only the 490 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:09,930 staff physicians get exposed to the training but even the 491 00:26:09,930 --> 00:26:12,110 psychiatry trainees and other trainees, especially in 492 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:13,270 emergency medicine. 493 00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:16,204 They should all really know about it. 494 00:26:16,204 --> 00:26:18,921 GUEST SPEAKER 1: I suspect some of this have to do with 495 00:26:18,921 --> 00:26:20,156 the benefits of being in a union. 496 00:26:20,156 --> 00:26:23,614 So a union can demand that nurses receive this better 497 00:26:23,614 --> 00:26:26,084 training, where the physicians don't have a union. 498 00:26:26,084 --> 00:26:28,090 GUEST SPEAKER 2: It's also about numbers. 499 00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:31,720 On any unit, you have six, seven 500 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,420 nurses for one physician. 501 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:36,400 And the nurses are there in shifts around the clock. 502 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,686 So their likelihood of being exposed to an out-of-control 503 00:26:39,686 --> 00:26:42,320 patient are much higher. 504 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,380 Usually on these units people intervene as a team. 505 00:26:46,380 --> 00:26:51,796 And as a team leader that tries to apply so many of the 506 00:26:51,796 --> 00:26:52,800 principles I'm going to talk about. 507 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,216 And then if there is need for seclusion or restraints, then 508 00:26:57,216 --> 00:27:00,330 that has to be done in a coordinated fashion. 509 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:02,894 And things are much clearer, as I said, 510 00:27:02,894 --> 00:27:04,630 on the nursing front. 511 00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:06,340 Maybe because they are doing it all the time and because 512 00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:08,498 there are some tight regulations, 513 00:27:08,498 --> 00:27:11,942 because they're unionized. 514 00:27:11,942 --> 00:27:16,472 And at least half of the literature really comes from 515 00:27:16,472 --> 00:27:17,650 the nursing direction. 516 00:27:17,650 --> 00:27:23,050 So that's a tangent. 517 00:27:23,050 --> 00:27:27,215 PROFESSOR: Just want to ride off the Kinect comment that 518 00:27:27,215 --> 00:27:28,065 you were making. 519 00:27:28,065 --> 00:27:30,125 We will be talking about a little bit more about live 520 00:27:30,125 --> 00:27:33,790 action games so that's kind of how you prototype something 521 00:27:33,790 --> 00:27:37,156 that's going to be a motion gesture computer game. 522 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:38,320 You don't obfuscate. 523 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,434 Actually having to write code to do that, that sort of body 524 00:27:42,434 --> 00:27:45,843 recognition, is kind of annoying and expensive. 525 00:27:45,843 --> 00:27:50,226 But you can test off a lot of ideas just by having two 526 00:27:50,226 --> 00:27:51,690 people play with coding. 527 00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:54,500 Safety becomes the biggest concern for 528 00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:55,530 the players as well. 529 00:27:55,530 --> 00:27:58,659 It's kind of interesting in this particular case that you 530 00:27:58,659 --> 00:28:00,887 are trying to teach someone how to prevent 531 00:28:00,887 --> 00:28:04,440 damage to both parties. 532 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,030 That actually kind of helps you with the 533 00:28:06,030 --> 00:28:09,050 design a lot actually. 534 00:28:09,050 --> 00:28:12,145 That's only one problem. 535 00:28:12,145 --> 00:28:16,065 You'll go into more details about the kinds of things to 536 00:28:16,065 --> 00:28:19,516 prevent it escalating into actual conflict. 537 00:28:19,516 --> 00:28:24,446 GUEST SPEAKER 2: And the idea is basically to do your best 538 00:28:24,446 --> 00:28:27,897 to not end up at that particular extreme of direct 539 00:28:27,897 --> 00:28:31,850 combat, which is not-- 540 00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:33,520 So ideally you don't have to go there. 541 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,580 And as I said in 15 years I've been assaulted once. 542 00:28:36,580 --> 00:28:38,340 I'm sure I was lucky. 543 00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:43,750 People think that my eyebrows are intimidating. 544 00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:50,198 So don't tend to get very [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 545 00:28:50,198 --> 00:28:53,500 Again I'm going to tell a few, you know, tell you about a few 546 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:55,470 pearls and a few tricks that I personally use. 547 00:28:55,470 --> 00:29:00,010 It may not be helpful for everybody. 548 00:29:00,010 --> 00:29:02,070 Over time, you develop you own style. 549 00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:08,168 The idea is to be able to make an assessment and try to take 550 00:29:08,168 --> 00:29:09,136 preventative steps. 551 00:29:09,136 --> 00:29:10,588 And I think that's the secret. 552 00:29:10,588 --> 00:29:14,460 And this is what I hope better training may be the user 553 00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:16,396 simulation and gaming would be helpful. 554 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:25,010 Now I'm going to just, I'm going to jump into talking 555 00:29:25,010 --> 00:29:29,195 about prevention and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 556 00:29:29,195 --> 00:29:32,930 but identifying how you assess and how you think about the 557 00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:34,380 potential for violence. 558 00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:41,282 And these are some known risk factors for aggression. 559 00:29:41,282 --> 00:29:45,154 Obviously the history of violence is the top. 560 00:29:45,154 --> 00:29:51,132 How recent, how frequently, those people become 561 00:29:51,132 --> 00:29:52,750 assaultive. 562 00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:55,210 What's the pattern of escalation. 563 00:29:55,210 --> 00:29:56,260 What are the associated symptoms. 564 00:29:56,260 --> 00:30:00,480 What happens before somebody becomes assaultive. 565 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,030 Why is this important? 566 00:30:02,030 --> 00:30:05,999 Because you can do, and probably should do before, you 567 00:30:05,999 --> 00:30:09,410 engage with the patient an assessment at that level. 568 00:30:09,410 --> 00:30:13,170 And it will help you figure out how deep to get involved, 569 00:30:13,170 --> 00:30:15,050 how likely you are to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] the patient. 570 00:30:15,050 --> 00:30:19,206 Versus saying, oh, I don't need this, I need help, let's 571 00:30:19,206 --> 00:30:20,454 go in as a team. 572 00:30:20,454 --> 00:30:23,850 So that-- that makes it important. 573 00:30:23,850 --> 00:30:25,830 People often talk about violence and a rise in 574 00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:26,630 tendencies. 575 00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:28,920 Young people tend to be more assaultive, 576 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,710 and there's no surprise. 577 00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:36,590 Also older people who have dementia and get more 578 00:30:36,590 --> 00:30:40,991 disinhibited and more likely to become reactive. 579 00:30:40,991 --> 00:30:43,191 I always like to tell the story about a 580 00:30:43,191 --> 00:30:43,925 patient with dementia. 581 00:30:43,925 --> 00:30:47,125 I was moonlighting, and he swung at me as I was passing. 582 00:30:47,125 --> 00:30:49,065 And then I went to talk to him. 583 00:30:49,065 --> 00:30:52,680 Well, I don't know, you just passed by, and I was upset, 584 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:53,800 and you were the closest. 585 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,790 So I thought I would try to-- 586 00:30:56,790 --> 00:31:01,320 So there was no way for me to predict that. 587 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,336 It wasn't a serious thing, it wasn't a predatory type of 588 00:31:05,336 --> 00:31:07,292 assaultiveness where somebody plans. 589 00:31:07,292 --> 00:31:10,715 Doesn't like you, goes after you. 590 00:31:10,715 --> 00:31:15,116 A colleague of mine was attacked by a patient. 591 00:31:15,116 --> 00:31:19,517 The patient watched when people were not around, went 592 00:31:19,517 --> 00:31:22,290 into the doctors room, locked the 593 00:31:22,290 --> 00:31:24,160 door, and started punching. 594 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,684 So that's a totally different animal. 595 00:31:26,684 --> 00:31:29,521 So the distinction between impulsive, affective if you 596 00:31:29,521 --> 00:31:36,710 want or the type of aggression and the predatory is essential 597 00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:39,640 to keep in mind. 598 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:48,080 In some subcultures, violence is not allowed certainly much 599 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,020 more frequent. 600 00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:53,322 People of a lower socioeconomic status may be 601 00:31:53,322 --> 00:31:56,160 more likely to become assaultive. 602 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,035 Patients of a limited cognitive ability, especially 603 00:31:59,035 --> 00:32:02,899 when institutionalized, are way more likely to become 604 00:32:02,899 --> 00:32:03,382 assaultive. 605 00:32:03,382 --> 00:32:07,725 And then it's many, many diagnoses increase the 606 00:32:07,725 --> 00:32:09,705 likelihood of assaultiveness. 607 00:32:09,705 --> 00:32:13,170 The top are psychotic disorders, like schizophrenia. 608 00:32:13,170 --> 00:32:18,120 Mood disorders like bipolar. 609 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,390 I told you about what we call cognitive disorders, 610 00:32:22,390 --> 00:32:26,460 especially dementia and confusional states. 611 00:32:26,460 --> 00:32:30,080 Patients that have had traumatic brain injuries or 612 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,966 that have had epilepsy. 613 00:32:32,966 --> 00:32:35,852 GUEST SPEAKER 1: There's a real problem with Iraq or 614 00:32:35,852 --> 00:32:39,410 Afghanistan veterans, when they have had an IE explode 615 00:32:39,410 --> 00:32:40,540 under their vehicle. 616 00:32:40,540 --> 00:32:42,660 And they had a brain injury. 617 00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:44,750 Now they have a lot of disinhibition about violence. 618 00:32:44,750 --> 00:32:48,745 And they can just go off sometimes very unexpectedly. 619 00:32:48,745 --> 00:32:51,730 GUEST SPEAKER 2: The frontal lobe exerts a sort of 620 00:32:51,730 --> 00:32:57,370 inhibitory influence on our ability to function. 621 00:32:57,370 --> 00:33:00,350 And that allows us to plan, to think 622 00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:03,200 ahead, to sequence events. 623 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,000 This is the executive function of our frontal lobe. 624 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,864 When it's impaired either in a trauma, or after surgery, or 625 00:33:11,864 --> 00:33:16,256 being in an accident, or becoming demented, that 626 00:33:16,256 --> 00:33:22,112 ability to operate in that fashion may be impaired. 627 00:33:22,112 --> 00:33:25,040 Violence is a possible side effect. 628 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,330 Substance abuse are at the top of the list, because of the 629 00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:33,412 disinhibition, both during the intoxication phase and during 630 00:33:33,412 --> 00:33:36,085 the withdrawal people tend to become very agitated and 631 00:33:36,085 --> 00:33:37,800 assaultive. 632 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,668 There are certain personality disorders. 633 00:33:41,668 --> 00:33:46,840 So when we think about the percentage order, we have this 634 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,315 enduring maladaptive patterns of relating to you and to 635 00:33:51,315 --> 00:33:53,428 others and to the world. 636 00:33:53,428 --> 00:33:56,886 The obsessive compulsive personality disorder likes to 637 00:33:56,886 --> 00:33:58,862 have things organized, planned. 638 00:33:58,862 --> 00:34:01,002 Nothing-- even going on vacation is 639 00:34:01,002 --> 00:34:01,826 an exhausting task. 640 00:34:01,826 --> 00:34:05,165 Nothing has to happen randomly. 641 00:34:05,165 --> 00:34:09,690 The grandiose personalities really need this kind of 642 00:34:09,690 --> 00:34:12,550 feeling coming from all directions. 643 00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:15,210 They need to be in the limelight. 644 00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:19,370 They use people, not as real people but as people that 645 00:34:19,370 --> 00:34:23,320 provide sustenance to their own self esteem. 646 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,844 Two type of personality disorders are particularly 647 00:34:27,844 --> 00:34:31,630 likely to promote violence. 648 00:34:31,630 --> 00:34:37,340 The antisocial and you may have heard the term borderline 649 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:40,723 personality disorder, which is basically at core has 650 00:34:40,723 --> 00:34:43,675 significant instability and emotions and interpersonal 651 00:34:43,675 --> 00:34:49,579 relationships and identity and basically 652 00:34:49,579 --> 00:34:51,750 their lives are a mess. 653 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:55,260 Often they feel abandoned, they feel put down. 654 00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:59,504 They may get briefly paranoid and often they become 655 00:34:59,504 --> 00:35:00,390 assaultive. 656 00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:04,360 So again, I'm throwing a lot of terms and 657 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:05,320 definitions at you. 658 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,803 I don't want to make this a lecture about psychiatry. 659 00:35:10,803 --> 00:35:14,033 But these are conditions that I think are 660 00:35:14,033 --> 00:35:15,276 helpful to think about. 661 00:35:15,276 --> 00:35:19,252 AUDIENCE: When people with delusional disorders like 662 00:35:19,252 --> 00:35:22,731 schizophrenia get violent, is it usually because they are 663 00:35:22,731 --> 00:35:24,719 frustrated about something or is it because they suddenly 664 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,701 have some sort of delusion about their clinician that 665 00:35:27,701 --> 00:35:30,925 involves requiring them to take some sort of action that 666 00:35:30,925 --> 00:35:31,875 is violent? 667 00:35:31,875 --> 00:35:33,150 GUEST SPEAKER 2: I think both. 668 00:35:33,150 --> 00:35:37,086 I think even people that have a psychotic disorder have the 669 00:35:37,086 --> 00:35:40,040 right to feel the victim of an injustice or 670 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,650 feel frustrated or-- 671 00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:44,437 many of the reasons that I talked about could happen. 672 00:35:44,437 --> 00:35:49,427 But in particular, I think the other 673 00:35:49,427 --> 00:35:50,425 point is equally important. 674 00:35:50,425 --> 00:35:52,920 That they may act on a delusional conviction. 675 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:59,820 Or their psychosis may also have hallucinations. 676 00:35:59,820 --> 00:36:04,733 And command auditory hallucinations are known to 677 00:36:04,733 --> 00:36:07,840 often be the forerunners of a violent attack. 678 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,720 You talk about me and say things. 679 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,810 Or the voice tells me, I'm going to go after you. 680 00:36:14,810 --> 00:36:21,310 And the person feels hopeless to resist that. 681 00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:24,210 I discharged a patient, was doing great. 682 00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:25,870 Next day he comes back. 683 00:36:25,870 --> 00:36:30,060 Went home, the voice told him that he needs to hurt his 684 00:36:30,060 --> 00:36:33,490 mother, otherwise he'll get disemboweled. 685 00:36:33,490 --> 00:36:37,360 So he started punching her and then chased her with a knife. 686 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,137 She had to hide in a neighbor's house until the 687 00:36:42,137 --> 00:36:43,530 police arrived. 688 00:36:43,530 --> 00:36:47,836 There is an interesting threat control override here that 689 00:36:47,836 --> 00:36:52,130 people who have looked at violence have prescribed as 690 00:36:52,130 --> 00:36:56,340 being sometimes the proximal cause for violence. 691 00:36:56,340 --> 00:36:59,423 People feel directly threatened. 692 00:36:59,423 --> 00:37:05,345 And they also have this overpowering urge that they 693 00:37:05,345 --> 00:37:08,110 need to act on that they cannot resist. 694 00:37:08,110 --> 00:37:09,450 It's a controversial concept. 695 00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:12,190 I'm not so sure why we should give this particular 696 00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:16,492 association a higher status than other delusional 697 00:37:16,492 --> 00:37:20,420 convictions about the neighbors watching me or 698 00:37:20,420 --> 00:37:23,240 planning to kill me, or putting together a variety of 699 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:28,330 clues that my friends are really trying to get rid of me 700 00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:29,530 and then I need to protect myself. 701 00:37:29,530 --> 00:37:31,230 But you are absolutely right. 702 00:37:31,230 --> 00:37:34,890 What's interesting even though patients with 20 psychiatric 703 00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:38,680 disorders may have their reasons to become assaultive, 704 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,780 in the overall bigger scheme of things, when you look at 705 00:37:41,780 --> 00:37:46,240 actual violent assaults committed in society, they're 706 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,270 responsible for a tiny one. 707 00:37:48,270 --> 00:37:52,343 So it's an interesting way of looking at numbers. 708 00:37:52,343 --> 00:37:57,170 Yes they could become violent, but the reality is that their 709 00:37:57,170 --> 00:38:00,130 numbers, the actual violent acts, are very small. 710 00:38:00,130 --> 00:38:04,906 But anyway this may just be a kind of statistical trick. 711 00:38:04,906 --> 00:38:07,997 AUDIENCE: You're talking about the number of cases of violent 712 00:38:07,997 --> 00:38:11,495 episodes compared to the general population. 713 00:38:11,495 --> 00:38:12,120 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Exactly. 714 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,600 That's exactly the problem right there. 715 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,505 And then there are various acute findings when you 716 00:38:19,505 --> 00:38:20,960 examine the patient. 717 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,870 On what we call the mental status examination. 718 00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:26,295 Obviously, hostilities, suspiciousness, agitation are 719 00:38:26,295 --> 00:38:28,235 all associated with violence. 720 00:38:35,220 --> 00:38:38,630 I want us to focus one minute on the so-called aggressive 721 00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:48,527 attributional style, how do we respond to stress when we have 722 00:38:48,527 --> 00:38:51,960 a perception of threat. 723 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,927 This is the threat override delusion that I mentioned. 724 00:38:57,927 --> 00:38:59,899 I think that's quite relevant. 725 00:39:02,860 --> 00:39:06,690 What happens in conditions of uncertainty, and many of these 726 00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:10,930 patients may have to think in a distorted fashion. 727 00:39:10,930 --> 00:39:16,690 I was talking at the beginning about the 728 00:39:16,690 --> 00:39:19,380 communication breakdown. 729 00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:22,132 You have the layer of the mental illness that shrinks 730 00:39:22,132 --> 00:39:22,910 your options. 731 00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:25,640 You have a particular situation to deal with that 732 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,850 makes you even more likely to become assaulted. 733 00:39:30,850 --> 00:39:34,215 And this constellation of cognitive distortions may make 734 00:39:34,215 --> 00:39:37,400 it more likely for you to become assaulted. 735 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,400 Neglecting the base information, which assigns a 736 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,960 high weight to certain events that otherwise are low 737 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:52,360 frequency, attending only to facts that would confirm your 738 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,510 assumptions, I think-- 739 00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:59,040 AUDIENCE: So if the psychiatrist's office calls to 740 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,350 reschedule an appointment, the person assumes that this is 741 00:40:02,350 --> 00:40:04,820 because the psychiatrist doesn't like him. 742 00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:07,850 This person doesn't want to treat me, they don't like me, 743 00:40:07,850 --> 00:40:09,350 they don't want me to be their patient because they 744 00:40:09,350 --> 00:40:10,785 rescheduled me. 745 00:40:10,785 --> 00:40:13,720 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Ignoring facts that could disconfirm 746 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,440 your hypothesis. 747 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,649 I just talked to the psychiatrist who was nice to 748 00:40:19,649 --> 00:40:23,450 me, but still the fact that he called and canceled is the 749 00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:26,530 overriding explanation that he doesn't like me. 750 00:40:26,530 --> 00:40:30,875 Or focusing on common events just because you remember 751 00:40:30,875 --> 00:40:33,920 them, which is an interesting way of explaining. 752 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,050 The fact that you remember them and it brings 753 00:40:36,050 --> 00:40:38,135 them up in the rack. 754 00:40:38,135 --> 00:40:40,510 And other disconfirming evidence is 755 00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:42,885 totally kind of ignored. 756 00:40:42,885 --> 00:40:45,270 AUDIENCE: In spite the assumption that the train on 757 00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:47,420 the other platform always seems to arrive first. 758 00:40:47,420 --> 00:40:50,354 Because those are the ones you remember. 759 00:40:50,354 --> 00:40:52,310 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Or the garden variety, the 760 00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:55,740 grass is always greener. 761 00:40:55,740 --> 00:40:59,450 And I talked about medications and street drugs. 762 00:40:59,450 --> 00:41:01,220 Some are more likely to be associated. 763 00:41:01,220 --> 00:41:03,300 Alcohol just by the sheer volume. 764 00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:06,800 And especially because withdrawal is so violent. 765 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,335 It's a significant issue. 766 00:41:08,335 --> 00:41:12,530 The intoxication phase, your level of coordination, your 767 00:41:12,530 --> 00:41:17,110 perception of facts, it's just they're so off that you are 768 00:41:17,110 --> 00:41:19,156 more likely to lose control. 769 00:41:19,156 --> 00:41:24,336 Antidepressants have an interesting impact, because in 770 00:41:24,336 --> 00:41:27,136 people that have an underlying tendency to swing in their 771 00:41:27,136 --> 00:41:29,100 moods may actually all [? blend those ?] things. 772 00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:34,460 You may have heard of the news of antidepressants promoting 773 00:41:34,460 --> 00:41:37,700 violence and suicide in adolescents. 774 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:40,320 And while statisticians are still scratching their heads 775 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,260 to figure out the exact numbers, the truth is that 776 00:41:44,260 --> 00:41:48,183 mood is very unstable in adolescents. 777 00:41:48,183 --> 00:41:51,350 And often initial depression may turn out to 778 00:41:51,350 --> 00:41:52,670 be something else. 779 00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:55,310 You give somebody an antidepressant, call him or 780 00:41:55,310 --> 00:41:57,240 her for followup in six or eight months. 781 00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:59,480 In the meanwhile, lots of things could happen. 782 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,484 And I think in those cases, when actually those young 783 00:42:02,484 --> 00:42:07,600 adolescents committed suicide, it was not so much about 784 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,010 antidepressants causing it. 785 00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:11,595 Probably the antidepressants made the symptoms worse. 786 00:42:11,595 --> 00:42:14,270 It was very poor followup and poor diagnostic. 787 00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:18,950 But anyway, this is getting too technical. 788 00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:20,400 I included this last minute. 789 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:26,530 This is an interesting summary of a nationwide study focusing 790 00:42:26,530 --> 00:42:30,900 on violence risk assessment. 791 00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:37,454 Let me just take two minutes about useful measures in 792 00:42:37,454 --> 00:42:39,440 assessing dynamic to the violence. 793 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,130 People have looked at violence in two ways. 794 00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:45,990 They have put together all those factors 795 00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:47,530 that I presented initially. 796 00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:53,053 And they have looked at the perspective of those who have 797 00:42:53,053 --> 00:42:53,210 become violent. 798 00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:56,040 And they compiled the history, clinical 799 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,130 risk assessment scale. 800 00:42:58,130 --> 00:43:00,430 The problem is that when you're dealing with somebody, 801 00:43:00,430 --> 00:43:03,530 those scales, even though they may give you a good image of 802 00:43:03,530 --> 00:43:06,950 what happens in the long run, they may not help you deal 803 00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:08,490 with the immediate situation. 804 00:43:08,490 --> 00:43:12,910 So clinical scales have been used in [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 805 00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:16,210 One developed in Norway, the other one, the dynamic 806 00:43:16,210 --> 00:43:17,860 appraisal, developed in Australia. 807 00:43:17,860 --> 00:43:21,325 These are the items for the HCR-20. 808 00:43:21,325 --> 00:43:25,550 And it's almost like a repetition of what I said 809 00:43:25,550 --> 00:43:26,570 earlier in terms of risk factors. 810 00:43:26,570 --> 00:43:28,750 This is the historical risk factors. 811 00:43:28,750 --> 00:43:30,780 And these are validated, because they have been used 812 00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:33,410 for more than 15 years. 813 00:43:33,410 --> 00:43:38,540 The clinical scale is the dynamic part of the HCR. 814 00:43:38,540 --> 00:43:41,480 And then the risk management scale is trying to project in 815 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,710 the future what you have to do in order to ensure safety, 816 00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:47,400 what could go wrong. 817 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,850 GUEST SPEAKER 1: So the value of these scales is kind of 818 00:43:49,850 --> 00:43:54,490 sizing up the likelihood of this person coming violent, in 819 00:43:54,490 --> 00:43:55,790 the absence of other information. 820 00:43:55,790 --> 00:43:58,280 The best predictor is probably what they're actually doing 821 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,200 behaviorally in front of you. 822 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,220 They're reaching for something heavy, I take that in and 823 00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:07,510 weigh that heavily. 824 00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:09,580 But in the absence of anything else, you know that the people 825 00:44:09,580 --> 00:44:15,365 who meet a certain profile are more likely to be violent as a 826 00:44:15,365 --> 00:44:16,960 psychiatric patient than others. 827 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,477 GUEST SPEAKER 2: This is a dynamic scale that looks at 828 00:44:19,477 --> 00:44:22,960 what happens in front of you, as you pointed out. 829 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,950 You're considering confusion or debility, how boisterous 830 00:44:25,950 --> 00:44:28,960 and how verbally threatening the person is. 831 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,360 The most recent one is the dynamic appraisal of the 832 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,030 situation aggression that has seven factors that seems to be 833 00:44:36,030 --> 00:44:38,330 the best one [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 834 00:44:38,330 --> 00:44:40,120 assessment or prediction of violence 835 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,950 over the next 24 hours. 836 00:44:43,950 --> 00:44:50,028 And this is an interesting psychopathy and an index. 837 00:44:50,028 --> 00:44:53,300 Psychopathy has an interesting history. 838 00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:58,700 I think the current version that we all talk about is 839 00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:00,090 antisocial personality. 840 00:45:00,090 --> 00:45:04,860 But basically refers to people with minimal capacity for 841 00:45:04,860 --> 00:45:08,840 empathy, whose moral dimensions is fairly 842 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:13,985 primitive, who engage in stealing, cheating, violence, 843 00:45:13,985 --> 00:45:19,320 and don't have a lot of moral drawbacks to do it. 844 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,686 It seems to be associated with violence, not surprisingly. 845 00:45:22,686 --> 00:45:27,700 And this is actually a factor analysis that identifies those 846 00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:30,860 two dimensions. 847 00:45:30,860 --> 00:45:36,560 Now just at the end I want to talk about the de-escalation 848 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:42,370 principles that I am actually now trying to incorporate in 849 00:45:42,370 --> 00:45:48,500 the standardized patients, because these should be fairly 850 00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:54,060 easy to at least present, and then maybe hopefully to teach 851 00:45:54,060 --> 00:45:56,892 the residents how to use in terms of dealing 852 00:45:56,892 --> 00:45:57,850 with agitated patients. 853 00:45:57,850 --> 00:46:04,654 So actually many of them are used by staff. 854 00:46:04,654 --> 00:46:09,630 How to start interaction with a violent patient. 855 00:46:09,630 --> 00:46:11,690 How to position yourself. 856 00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:14,560 Within arm's length. 857 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,930 Probably at 45 degrees. 858 00:46:17,930 --> 00:46:20,170 For two reasons. 859 00:46:20,170 --> 00:46:25,250 One, in case you're attacked, to offer a much smaller 860 00:46:25,250 --> 00:46:28,990 surface of the impact and also to allow you a way to escape, 861 00:46:28,990 --> 00:46:31,910 you have to. 862 00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:34,170 Not obviously to block the exit door. 863 00:46:34,170 --> 00:46:37,490 Stand over if the person is leaning down or in the bed. 864 00:46:37,490 --> 00:46:39,870 Never turn your back. 865 00:46:39,870 --> 00:46:41,750 What to do with you your hands. 866 00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:44,840 Never make fists, or kind of keep your arms crossed, or 867 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:50,840 behind you, or in your pockets, to kind of appear as 868 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,770 nonthreatening as possible. 869 00:46:52,770 --> 00:46:55,535 How to regulate the eye contact. 870 00:46:55,535 --> 00:46:58,325 If it's too intense, it can become bothersome. 871 00:46:58,325 --> 00:47:02,915 If it lacks completely, then people could conclude that you 872 00:47:02,915 --> 00:47:05,682 are not really interested or involved. 873 00:47:05,682 --> 00:47:08,490 GUEST SPEAKER 1: The thing that's important to keep in 874 00:47:08,490 --> 00:47:11,910 mind with a psychiatric patient is, 875 00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:12,670 well, a couple things. 876 00:47:12,670 --> 00:47:16,930 One is that mental health patients are much more likely 877 00:47:16,930 --> 00:47:18,670 to be the victims of violence than 878 00:47:18,670 --> 00:47:19,370 actually to commit violence. 879 00:47:19,370 --> 00:47:22,490 And this is really the outlier, the unusual case 880 00:47:22,490 --> 00:47:25,340 where the psychiatric patient becomes violent. 881 00:47:25,340 --> 00:47:27,240 But obviously it's an important situation. 882 00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:30,090 It does happen frequently enough to be a real concern 883 00:47:30,090 --> 00:47:32,364 for the providers, for their well being. 884 00:47:39,810 --> 00:47:41,980 Basically there's different levels of what you have to 885 00:47:41,980 --> 00:47:43,150 understand how to do. 886 00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:46,135 One, how to protect yourself, and then two, how to protect 887 00:47:46,135 --> 00:47:46,410 the patient. 888 00:47:46,410 --> 00:47:50,752 It's almost like if your child who's 11 years old comes at 889 00:47:50,752 --> 00:47:53,440 you swinging, it's really different than if you're 890 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,710 getting bumped on the subway in terms of what 891 00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:56,060 you're going to do. 892 00:47:56,060 --> 00:47:58,370 Now the person who's sitting in your office might be a lot 893 00:47:58,370 --> 00:47:59,160 bigger than your 11 year old. 894 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,240 But you kind of get the idea. 895 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:04,982 You're not trying to punish them, you're not trying to 896 00:48:04,982 --> 00:48:08,790 inflict any more harm on them than is absolutely needed in 897 00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:11,306 order to stop the situation and for you to get 898 00:48:11,306 --> 00:48:13,176 out, or let them out. 899 00:48:13,176 --> 00:48:13,940 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Yes. 900 00:48:13,940 --> 00:48:15,480 And that's important, and that's somewhat 901 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:16,730 counter-intuitive. 902 00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:22,906 I'm just thinking, I'm trying to think in terms of potential 903 00:48:22,906 --> 00:48:28,870 simulation, and targets for our training paradigm. 904 00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:33,874 I think an important aspect is for the person who is going to 905 00:48:33,874 --> 00:48:36,075 the training to understand himself or herself. 906 00:48:36,075 --> 00:48:38,779 How what's the reaction when you are threatened. 907 00:48:38,779 --> 00:48:41,500 And how to continue to think on your feet. 908 00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:44,920 And take decisions that are not based on a flight or fight 909 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,880 or tend and befriend attitude. 910 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,840 This is not about dealing with a common situation. 911 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,810 This is when you have to maintain your ability to 912 00:48:55,810 --> 00:48:58,955 remain therapeutic and helpful and to minimize harm to 913 00:48:58,955 --> 00:49:02,470 yourself and certainly harm to the other person. 914 00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:04,900 And the truth of the matter is that many people in these 915 00:49:04,900 --> 00:49:11,340 situations react the way that they've always done. 916 00:49:11,340 --> 00:49:15,540 I gave Jim the example of a social worker I work with, who 917 00:49:15,540 --> 00:49:19,660 every time when she is confronted by a patient, she 918 00:49:19,660 --> 00:49:24,633 gets angry and she gets defensive and tells things to 919 00:49:24,633 --> 00:49:26,820 her that I find are hurtful. 920 00:49:26,820 --> 00:49:29,710 And they are just adding gas to the fire. 921 00:49:29,710 --> 00:49:31,640 I need to intervene because you feel that it's almost 922 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,850 like, you know, I'm there to umpire. 923 00:49:33,850 --> 00:49:35,010 OK, time out. 924 00:49:35,010 --> 00:49:35,440 Stop. 925 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,296 We need to do something else. 926 00:49:38,296 --> 00:49:40,686 And I try to explain to her. 927 00:49:40,686 --> 00:49:42,450 She just doesn't get it. 928 00:49:42,450 --> 00:49:47,968 Or can theoretically figure it out but doesn't do a 929 00:49:47,968 --> 00:49:49,270 very good job at it. 930 00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:53,515 When we are angry or frightened, our behavior, the 931 00:49:53,515 --> 00:49:57,100 way we talk, the way we track, changes. 932 00:49:57,100 --> 00:50:00,544 And those things can be major triggers for the other person. 933 00:50:00,544 --> 00:50:03,780 GUEST SPEAKER 1: If you're staying really calm, and the 934 00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:06,975 other person's escalating, that's a real dampening force 935 00:50:06,975 --> 00:50:09,780 on that other person from escalating even more. 936 00:50:09,780 --> 00:50:13,396 And it's really, really hard to do, to stay professional. 937 00:50:13,396 --> 00:50:16,475 And recognizing that this aggression is 938 00:50:16,475 --> 00:50:17,910 really a medical symptom. 939 00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:20,986 It's like if they are bleeding on the floor. 940 00:50:20,986 --> 00:50:23,070 The difference obviously is that it could actually hurt 941 00:50:23,070 --> 00:50:24,220 you, the provider. 942 00:50:24,220 --> 00:50:26,435 But you need to recognize it as a medical symptom that 943 00:50:26,435 --> 00:50:28,820 needs to be dealt with as opposed to taking it really 944 00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:34,287 personally, or you being violent back. 945 00:50:34,287 --> 00:50:35,810 GUEST SPEAKER 2: How do you appear. 946 00:50:35,810 --> 00:50:38,210 How do you-- 947 00:50:38,210 --> 00:50:41,038 obviously, being calm, centered, self assured is 948 00:50:41,038 --> 00:50:41,986 always helpful. 949 00:50:41,986 --> 00:50:45,320 It's the message that you're conveying. 950 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:50,460 Often if you respond to anger by being fearful or angry 951 00:50:50,460 --> 00:50:55,505 yourself, obviously these will just escalate. 952 00:50:55,505 --> 00:50:58,970 Or if you're fidgety and pacing, and gesturing 953 00:50:58,970 --> 00:51:03,302 yourself, and wondering, so what do I do now, I think the 954 00:51:03,302 --> 00:51:07,510 other person would clearly pick up that feeling. 955 00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:12,924 Touching most often than not is not a good idea. 956 00:51:12,924 --> 00:51:15,369 Even though instinctively we would like to calm the other 957 00:51:15,369 --> 00:51:17,325 person down or wonder what it is. 958 00:51:17,325 --> 00:51:21,230 This is how we learn to show empathy and that we care, we 959 00:51:21,230 --> 00:51:21,730 want to help. 960 00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:27,510 Well, it may not be a good idea. 961 00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:33,273 And then this could be a topic in itself. 962 00:51:33,273 --> 00:51:36,710 Active listening would be the most-- 963 00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:40,147 if you want the buzzword, in terms of the verbal 964 00:51:40,147 --> 00:51:42,130 de-escalation principle. 965 00:51:42,130 --> 00:51:46,650 Often when I'm called, and many of my colleagues are 966 00:51:46,650 --> 00:51:48,210 called in such situations. 967 00:51:48,210 --> 00:51:49,670 I introduce myself. 968 00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:53,246 I'm telling the person no matter how agitated 969 00:51:53,246 --> 00:51:55,745 he is why I'm here. 970 00:51:55,745 --> 00:51:58,400 And I'm trying to understand. 971 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,260 I may not respond or react to the person's curses or 972 00:52:02,260 --> 00:52:03,200 threatening behavior. 973 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,490 Of course I try to maintain a safe distance. 974 00:52:05,490 --> 00:52:07,815 And I continue my assessment. 975 00:52:07,815 --> 00:52:11,305 Can I deal with this, or I need help, or I need to stop 976 00:52:11,305 --> 00:52:13,916 and find another way. 977 00:52:13,916 --> 00:52:19,800 And I give that person feedback about what I see, how 978 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,628 he or she makes me feel. 979 00:52:21,628 --> 00:52:24,400 I feel you are threatening, I feel uncomfortable, I think we 980 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:24,910 need to stop. 981 00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:26,400 Do you want to talk? 982 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,580 What are the issues that you're dealing with? 983 00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:37,214 And I also explain and set limits on what is acceptable 984 00:52:37,214 --> 00:52:39,120 and what is not acceptable. 985 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,706 Often, that combination works. 986 00:52:44,910 --> 00:52:48,340 I listed pharmacotherapy and seclusion restraint because 987 00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:51,280 they are part of the process, and I think I would like 988 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,670 people who are trained for this to understand that those 989 00:52:56,670 --> 00:52:57,920 things are available. 990 00:53:04,290 --> 00:53:05,757 Any questions so far? 991 00:53:11,625 --> 00:53:15,048 AUDIENCE: I've just got a couple of comments on 992 00:53:15,048 --> 00:53:16,026 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 993 00:53:16,026 --> 00:53:16,612 GUEST SPEAKER 1: Yeah. 994 00:53:16,612 --> 00:53:17,004 We can do that. 995 00:53:17,004 --> 00:53:18,960 And also I wanted to suggest and see what you think about 996 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,924 this, if someone would like to play the role of a patient, I 997 00:53:22,924 --> 00:53:25,575 can meet with you briefly and just kind of prepare you to do 998 00:53:25,575 --> 00:53:28,170 that if anybody is interested in taking the role of the 999 00:53:28,170 --> 00:53:28,685 aggressive patient. 1000 00:53:28,685 --> 00:53:30,445 You'd like to do that? 1001 00:53:30,445 --> 00:53:33,910 Why don't you and I step out for just a couple of minutes. 1002 00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:36,385 And then [UNINTELLIGIBLE]? 1003 00:53:36,385 --> 00:53:37,635 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1004 00:53:42,820 --> 00:53:47,710 PROFESSOR: So there's a couple of things that have been 1005 00:53:47,710 --> 00:53:50,780 brought up already, immediately seem to be 1006 00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:54,830 possible places where you guys can think of what you're doing 1007 00:53:54,830 --> 00:53:57,070 to do your project on. 1008 00:53:57,070 --> 00:54:00,690 There's identifying factors. 1009 00:54:00,690 --> 00:54:04,850 There's a whole bunch of different schemes and 1010 00:54:04,850 --> 00:54:08,700 different metrics that people have been using. 1011 00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:13,410 All the way from known personality types to 1012 00:54:13,410 --> 00:54:16,790 socioeconomic factors and personal history. 1013 00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:20,400 You could make some kind of [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1014 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,500 I can imagine, some sort of like can you figure out enough 1015 00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:27,290 information before it's too late. 1016 00:54:27,290 --> 00:54:30,266 The dynamic assessment of violence seems to be more of a 1017 00:54:30,266 --> 00:54:32,050 time pressure kind of thing. 1018 00:54:32,050 --> 00:54:34,870 Because you almost have to figure out on the spot. 1019 00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:37,690 But factors are very different. 1020 00:54:37,690 --> 00:54:41,730 But similarly I can find de-escalation. 1021 00:54:44,750 --> 00:54:47,270 It seems kind of interesting, because it almost seems like 1022 00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:48,840 you could make a word game. 1023 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:54,052 Or a face to face kind of thing out of that. 1024 00:54:54,052 --> 00:54:59,645 Can you remember what you're supposed to do in conversation 1025 00:54:59,645 --> 00:55:03,110 with each other without missing any of the 1026 00:55:03,110 --> 00:55:04,100 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1027 00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:06,080 And that might be something. 1028 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,980 That would be like a live action game but not 1029 00:55:07,980 --> 00:55:09,808 necessarily a physical game. 1030 00:55:09,808 --> 00:55:12,550 It would be more like a party game. 1031 00:55:12,550 --> 00:55:16,160 GUEST SPEAKER 2: One way-- 1032 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,295 this is, by the way, I didn't want to go there to 1033 00:55:18,295 --> 00:55:19,080 make this too long. 1034 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:23,650 But these are some parts of a standardized patient that I'm 1035 00:55:23,650 --> 00:55:27,340 putting together, then I'm going to try actually to talk 1036 00:55:27,340 --> 00:55:30,538 to the simulation department at UMass, to be 1037 00:55:30,538 --> 00:55:32,014 played by an actor. 1038 00:55:32,014 --> 00:55:37,060 And this would be the training goals. 1039 00:55:37,060 --> 00:55:40,465 And I'm really particularly interested in how people 1040 00:55:40,465 --> 00:55:43,316 respond when they are exposed to an angry situation or even 1041 00:55:43,316 --> 00:55:44,910 to an angry face. 1042 00:55:44,910 --> 00:55:46,442 What do you have to do in order to 1043 00:55:46,442 --> 00:55:47,750 de-escalate the patient. 1044 00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:55,620 And what I think I'm going to suggest to the actor is that, 1045 00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:58,130 you are in the room and you're pacing up and down. 1046 00:55:58,130 --> 00:55:59,100 And appearing angry. 1047 00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:03,170 And you're allowed to use some generic swear words. 1048 00:56:03,170 --> 00:56:06,170 And to have a number of complaints. 1049 00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:07,936 Could be a number of them. 1050 00:56:07,936 --> 00:56:10,150 Nurse was too late to give me the medications. 1051 00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:13,140 The girlfriend didn't come in time. 1052 00:56:13,140 --> 00:56:14,530 You owe money. 1053 00:56:14,530 --> 00:56:17,509 You just had a job interview today and you missed it 1054 00:56:17,509 --> 00:56:18,540 because you're in the hospital. 1055 00:56:18,540 --> 00:56:19,930 Could be a number of things. 1056 00:56:19,930 --> 00:56:22,050 And then the person approaches you. 1057 00:56:24,660 --> 00:56:30,400 The trainee should follow some rules in terms of the verbal 1058 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,040 and nonverbal de-escalation. 1059 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:37,270 If that person is able to engage you, you can become 1060 00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:41,890 less angry, less agitated, more interested. 1061 00:56:41,890 --> 00:56:45,910 Pacing less, lower your voice. 1062 00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:49,970 If the trainee is just doing the right or wrong things, you 1063 00:56:49,970 --> 00:56:53,460 either stay at the same level or get more and more angry. 1064 00:56:53,460 --> 00:56:57,440 Of course, it's fairly demanding for a standardized 1065 00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,990 for an actor, because the nonverbal elements are easy. 1066 00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:03,250 How you regulate the distance. 1067 00:57:03,250 --> 00:57:05,595 How you look, how you approach. 1068 00:57:05,595 --> 00:57:10,055 You inhibit your natural tendencies to pat the person 1069 00:57:10,055 --> 00:57:11,370 on the shoulder, whatever. 1070 00:57:11,370 --> 00:57:14,180 But the verbal aspects are more difficult. 1071 00:57:14,180 --> 00:57:15,410 AUDIENCE: Improvising dialog on the spot is hard. 1072 00:57:15,410 --> 00:57:16,615 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Exactly. 1073 00:57:16,615 --> 00:57:21,290 But at the same time, the goals of the dialog are not. 1074 00:57:21,290 --> 00:57:25,410 Because you should probably find out what's going on, even 1075 00:57:25,410 --> 00:57:28,820 though, let's say, the actor will try to tell you about his 1076 00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:30,550 life, and how miserable things are. 1077 00:57:30,550 --> 00:57:34,200 You know, I lost my job, and I was kicked out. 1078 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,850 But you need to try to bring the person 1079 00:57:36,850 --> 00:57:37,400 to what really happened. 1080 00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,820 I think that's very, very helpful because you're pinning 1081 00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:46,630 down a particular conflict that triggered it. 1082 00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:48,680 And if you are able to do that, then you 1083 00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,340 can take some steps. 1084 00:57:50,340 --> 00:57:50,980 OK. 1085 00:57:50,980 --> 00:57:53,980 I have a patient right now who has 1086 00:57:53,980 --> 00:57:55,970 difficulty expressing herself. 1087 00:57:55,970 --> 00:58:01,045 And systematically there's one particular shift where the 1088 00:58:01,045 --> 00:58:04,010 staff is not patient, doesn't wait for her. 1089 00:58:04,010 --> 00:58:06,670 You just need to give her a little bit more time. 1090 00:58:06,670 --> 00:58:09,300 And she gets upset and angry and starts pacing. 1091 00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:12,105 And I have to every time say, please, listen to her. 1092 00:58:12,105 --> 00:58:15,225 Or she comes up to me, she tells me the story and then I 1093 00:58:15,225 --> 00:58:17,070 have to go back to the staff. 1094 00:58:17,070 --> 00:58:20,900 People just don't have the patience or don't care. 1095 00:58:20,900 --> 00:58:22,600 So that's just a simple intervention. 1096 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,660 This is why you need to find out what's going on. 1097 00:58:25,660 --> 00:58:28,480 And then, if you can get more information about what brought 1098 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,724 the person to this place. 1099 00:58:32,724 --> 00:58:33,690 GUEST SPEAKER 1: OK. 1100 00:58:33,690 --> 00:58:36,600 I think we're prepared. 1101 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,790 She did role play before I showed this, because 1102 00:58:39,790 --> 00:58:41,350 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1103 00:58:41,350 --> 00:58:42,530 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Do you want to do it? 1104 00:58:42,530 --> 00:58:43,060 You've been trained. 1105 00:58:43,060 --> 00:58:43,850 GUEST SPEAKER 1: No. 1106 00:58:43,850 --> 00:58:45,940 You're the expert actually. 1107 00:58:45,940 --> 00:58:47,937 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK. 1108 00:58:47,937 --> 00:58:48,931 Alright. 1109 00:58:48,931 --> 00:58:51,416 Let's see what happens to me. 1110 00:58:51,416 --> 00:58:56,890 [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] 1111 00:58:56,890 --> 00:59:00,765 So, I'm Dr. [? See. ?] 1112 00:59:00,765 --> 00:59:01,980 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Where's John? 1113 00:59:01,980 --> 00:59:03,772 I want to speak to John. 1114 00:59:03,772 --> 00:59:07,070 I respond to him and I want him. 1115 00:59:07,070 --> 00:59:08,610 Why isn't he here? 1116 00:59:08,610 --> 00:59:09,200 Why? 1117 00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,140 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Who's this person? 1118 00:59:11,140 --> 00:59:12,110 I don't know. 1119 00:59:12,110 --> 00:59:13,565 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Where's John? 1120 00:59:13,565 --> 00:59:15,020 I only want to speak to him. 1121 00:59:15,020 --> 00:59:17,384 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well, Nurse John is not available. 1122 00:59:17,384 --> 00:59:18,328 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: [BANGING NOISE] 1123 00:59:18,328 --> 00:59:19,744 Why isn't he available? 1124 00:59:19,744 --> 00:59:21,640 Why? 1125 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,212 Only [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1126 00:59:23,212 --> 00:59:25,642 I don't want to talk to you right now. 1127 00:59:25,642 --> 00:59:27,586 GUEST SPEAKER 2: How can I help you? 1128 00:59:27,586 --> 00:59:28,558 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Get Johnny. 1129 00:59:28,558 --> 00:59:29,530 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK. 1130 00:59:29,530 --> 00:59:31,474 I can try to see if he's around. 1131 00:59:31,474 --> 00:59:32,446 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: [BANGING NOISE] 1132 00:59:32,446 --> 00:59:34,390 You could [UNINTELLIGIBLE] now. 1133 00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:35,860 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK. 1134 00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:37,822 But what else can I do? 1135 00:59:37,822 --> 00:59:38,786 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Um. 1136 00:59:38,786 --> 00:59:41,678 An education. 1137 00:59:41,678 --> 00:59:42,642 Stop it. 1138 00:59:42,642 --> 00:59:43,606 Not good. 1139 00:59:43,606 --> 00:59:45,550 Try to poison me. 1140 00:59:45,550 --> 00:59:46,460 You all want me dead. 1141 00:59:46,460 --> 00:59:48,742 GUEST SPEAKER 2: What am I trying to do to you? 1142 00:59:48,742 --> 00:59:51,097 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Doesn't [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1143 00:59:51,097 --> 00:59:52,039 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK. 1144 00:59:52,039 --> 00:59:54,865 I can talk about that. 1145 00:59:54,865 --> 00:59:57,526 So tell me what kind of problems do you have with the 1146 00:59:57,526 --> 00:59:58,004 medication? 1147 00:59:58,004 --> 00:59:59,450 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Trying to poison. 1148 00:59:59,450 --> 01:00:01,822 You all want me dead. 1149 01:00:01,822 --> 01:00:03,206 GUEST SPEAKER 2: So you don't think the 1150 01:00:03,206 --> 01:00:05,070 medication is helpful? 1151 01:00:05,070 --> 01:00:06,555 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Course not. 1152 01:00:06,555 --> 01:00:09,030 Trying to kill me. 1153 01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:10,020 [TEARING NOISE] 1154 01:00:10,020 --> 01:00:11,505 [LAUGHTER] 1155 01:00:11,505 --> 01:00:13,485 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: They're watching me. 1156 01:00:17,940 --> 01:00:22,395 GUEST SPEAKER 2: What else can I do to help? 1157 01:00:22,395 --> 01:00:23,880 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: [INAUDIBLE] 1158 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:24,970 family. 1159 01:00:24,970 --> 01:00:27,195 GUEST SPEAKER 2: You want me to contact your family? 1160 01:00:27,195 --> 01:00:27,940 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: No. 1161 01:00:27,940 --> 01:00:28,890 I hate them all. 1162 01:00:28,890 --> 01:00:31,340 They're all against me. 1163 01:00:31,340 --> 01:00:34,892 GUEST SPEAKER 2: It must be very hard, to not have anyone 1164 01:00:34,892 --> 01:00:35,750 to talk to or feel comfortable with. 1165 01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:37,160 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: That's why I want to talk 1166 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:38,790 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] with John. 1167 01:00:38,790 --> 01:00:40,500 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well, I'm sorry you're 1168 01:00:40,500 --> 01:00:43,104 struggling so much. 1169 01:00:43,104 --> 01:00:45,990 And I know we haven't met before. 1170 01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:48,395 But I'm here and trying to be helpful to you. 1171 01:00:48,395 --> 01:00:50,836 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: You want to kill me, don't you? 1172 01:00:50,836 --> 01:00:53,476 GUEST SPEAKER 2: No, I don't think I want to. 1173 01:00:56,392 --> 01:01:03,682 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: [GRUNTING] 1174 01:01:03,682 --> 01:01:06,438 GUEST SPEAKER 2: So we have a number of options. 1175 01:01:06,438 --> 01:01:09,784 And I think you look angry. 1176 01:01:09,784 --> 01:01:11,218 And you're scaring people and you're scaring me. 1177 01:01:11,218 --> 01:01:12,005 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Fine. 1178 01:01:12,005 --> 01:01:15,066 GUEST SPEAKER 2: You're scaring me. 1179 01:01:15,066 --> 01:01:16,050 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1180 01:01:16,050 --> 01:01:18,018 You're just laughing behind me. 1181 01:01:18,018 --> 01:01:19,002 You're not scared. 1182 01:01:19,002 --> 01:01:19,494 You're just laughing. 1183 01:01:19,494 --> 01:01:21,860 GUEST SPEAKER 2: No, I think you're a big, strong guy. 1184 01:01:21,860 --> 01:01:25,325 And when you get angry and upset, you get to be 1185 01:01:25,325 --> 01:01:25,820 intimidating. 1186 01:01:25,820 --> 01:01:26,810 And there are other-- 1187 01:01:26,810 --> 01:01:29,285 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Is that why you're going to poison me? 1188 01:01:29,285 --> 01:01:29,780 Scared of me? 1189 01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:30,770 GUEST SPEAKER 2: No. 1190 01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:33,159 Well, I'm not trying to hurt you. 1191 01:01:33,159 --> 01:01:36,652 But we need to come up with a solution. 1192 01:01:36,652 --> 01:01:38,648 Because you could get hurt and other people could get hurt. 1193 01:01:38,648 --> 01:01:41,642 So we need to do something about that. 1194 01:01:41,642 --> 01:01:43,638 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: I would be better off dead. 1195 01:01:43,638 --> 01:01:45,135 Everyone wants me dead. 1196 01:01:45,135 --> 01:01:46,133 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well. 1197 01:01:46,133 --> 01:01:50,624 I understand you're quite distraught today. 1198 01:01:50,624 --> 01:01:53,119 And I want to help you. 1199 01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:55,614 I may not be able to, right away. 1200 01:02:03,099 --> 01:02:09,586 I'm going to try to get the nurse that you want. 1201 01:02:09,586 --> 01:02:12,580 But what if I do not get him? 1202 01:02:12,580 --> 01:02:16,073 What's the next best thing? 1203 01:02:16,073 --> 01:02:17,323 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: [INAUDIBLE] 1204 01:02:20,065 --> 01:02:21,562 I don't know. 1205 01:02:21,562 --> 01:02:26,053 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Would it help to contact your family? 1206 01:02:26,053 --> 01:02:27,550 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Maybe mom. 1207 01:02:27,550 --> 01:02:28,049 I want my mom. 1208 01:02:28,049 --> 01:02:29,047 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK. 1209 01:02:29,047 --> 01:02:32,041 I can try to reach out to her. 1210 01:02:32,041 --> 01:02:35,855 And do you think that if you change the medications maybe 1211 01:02:35,855 --> 01:02:39,110 you can try a combination that could help? 1212 01:02:39,110 --> 01:02:41,013 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: As long as it's not poison. 1213 01:02:41,013 --> 01:02:41,780 GUEST SPEAKER 2: OK. 1214 01:02:41,780 --> 01:02:43,466 I hear you. 1215 01:02:43,466 --> 01:02:46,424 You don't like the medication. 1216 01:02:46,424 --> 01:02:48,396 You think that it's hurting you. 1217 01:02:48,396 --> 01:02:50,368 But it's helped in the past. 1218 01:02:50,368 --> 01:02:54,805 And maybe a different combination would be better. 1219 01:02:54,805 --> 01:02:55,298 Hmm? 1220 01:02:55,298 --> 01:02:56,284 ROLE PLAYING PATIENT: Maybe. 1221 01:02:56,284 --> 01:02:57,534 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Maybe? 1222 01:03:02,228 --> 01:03:03,674 Well, thank you. 1223 01:03:03,674 --> 01:03:05,210 We can go on like this. 1224 01:03:05,210 --> 01:03:13,130 [LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE] 1225 01:03:13,130 --> 01:03:14,380 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1226 01:03:27,968 --> 01:03:32,570 AUDIENCE: I have a question concerning about the 1227 01:03:32,570 --> 01:03:37,288 disruption of narrative model of why violence occurs. 1228 01:03:37,288 --> 01:03:41,320 Is that pretty much accepted as the way-- 1229 01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,320 GUEST SPEAKER 2: I just made it up for this. 1230 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:44,820 [LAUGHTER] 1231 01:03:44,820 --> 01:03:47,300 AUDIENCE: I was just wondering if there were competing, 1232 01:03:47,300 --> 01:03:50,811 different theories, it might be useful for people to 1233 01:03:50,811 --> 01:03:52,759 understand more than one model, or is that [INAUDIBLE]. 1234 01:03:52,759 --> 01:03:58,190 GUEST SPEAKER 2: The narrative perspective is, if you want, a 1235 01:03:58,190 --> 01:04:00,000 cry from the past. 1236 01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,731 I think the last 20 years, in science and certainly 1237 01:04:03,731 --> 01:04:07,550 medicine, have been dominated by hard evidence. 1238 01:04:07,550 --> 01:04:12,316 Actually, the evidence-based medicine has been taking over 1239 01:04:12,316 --> 01:04:16,060 the entire world, as the ultimate standard. 1240 01:04:16,060 --> 01:04:22,430 So there are lists of the strength of the evidence, and 1241 01:04:22,430 --> 01:04:28,286 randomized controlled designs are the best, and clinical 1242 01:04:28,286 --> 01:04:31,060 impression anecdotes are the worst. 1243 01:04:31,060 --> 01:04:38,090 So on this map, the narrative or a person-like story about 1244 01:04:38,090 --> 01:04:44,780 the patient may not be if you want the accepted model today. 1245 01:04:44,780 --> 01:04:49,538 But I think in dealing with individual cases, I feel that 1246 01:04:49,538 --> 01:04:51,017 makes a lot of sense. 1247 01:04:51,017 --> 01:04:52,870 When you have to deal with somebody who is very 1248 01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:57,560 distraught, if I tell him that the best available evidence 1249 01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:01,954 was published two years ago and showed that, you know, 20 1250 01:05:01,954 --> 01:05:05,930 milligrams of Abilify would work best for psychosis, I'm 1251 01:05:05,930 --> 01:05:08,663 not so sure that you would fuel the 1252 01:05:08,663 --> 01:05:10,403 warmth and the empathy. 1253 01:05:12,910 --> 01:05:15,180 But the reality, it could be that that 1254 01:05:15,180 --> 01:05:17,040 evidence is is right. 1255 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:18,260 He's psychotic. 1256 01:05:18,260 --> 01:05:20,130 And he tried to a variety of medications. 1257 01:05:20,130 --> 01:05:23,080 Some of them made him fat and pushed his triglycerides up 1258 01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,365 and raised his blood pressure. 1259 01:05:25,365 --> 01:05:30,310 If I switch him to Abilify in two months, he'll get better. 1260 01:05:30,310 --> 01:05:37,600 But dealing with the immediate issue, I think it's just, it's 1261 01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:38,572 something else. 1262 01:05:38,572 --> 01:05:41,609 And that knowledge about medication, while helpful in 1263 01:05:41,609 --> 01:05:42,470 the long run, will not make it very good. 1264 01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:46,500 So this is why I came up with if you want, for the purpose 1265 01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:53,210 of this meeting, with a way of creating a metaphor that could 1266 01:05:53,210 --> 01:05:58,130 sustain my verbal and nonverbal de-escalation. 1267 01:05:58,130 --> 01:06:03,720 I'm trying to create some sense, some coherence, some 1268 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,046 meaning, some meaning to that interaction. 1269 01:06:07,046 --> 01:06:10,822 And in doing that, I'm empathic and I'm trying to 1270 01:06:10,822 --> 01:06:14,430 channel the energies in a way that it's 1271 01:06:14,430 --> 01:06:15,860 almost like a beginning. 1272 01:06:15,860 --> 01:06:16,370 He's distraught. 1273 01:06:16,370 --> 01:06:17,450 He's ready to give up. 1274 01:06:17,450 --> 01:06:20,715 He's ready to shut himself away from the world. 1275 01:06:20,715 --> 01:06:23,800 I'm trying to reach out to him, without becoming his 1276 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,300 friend, without becoming his brother or father. 1277 01:06:27,300 --> 01:06:30,556 And I think in a sense I'm restoring the 1278 01:06:30,556 --> 01:06:32,230 meaning of his narrative. 1279 01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:35,462 Somebody cares, somebody reaches out. 1280 01:06:35,462 --> 01:06:38,060 PROFESSOR: Because it seems like a very interesting system 1281 01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:42,490 for people, for designers to play with. 1282 01:06:42,490 --> 01:06:45,100 The idea of trying, even though there is this historic 1283 01:06:45,100 --> 01:06:49,470 narrative, and you may not know enough about the 1284 01:06:49,470 --> 01:06:51,596 narrative to be able to act on it. 1285 01:06:51,596 --> 01:06:53,303 But you'd find out things about it by 1286 01:06:53,303 --> 01:06:54,920 talking to the patient. 1287 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:59,015 And what you're really trying to do is make things fit 1288 01:06:59,015 --> 01:07:00,955 within that person's narrative. 1289 01:07:00,955 --> 01:07:03,290 GUEST SPEAKER 2: You're filling the blanks that were 1290 01:07:03,290 --> 01:07:05,450 kind of somewhat destroyed by events. 1291 01:07:05,450 --> 01:07:09,300 And it could be a variety of events. 1292 01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:11,190 And at times you have to use your imagination. 1293 01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:12,410 It's almost like intuition. 1294 01:07:12,410 --> 01:07:15,450 I mean, I know the principles from every case, but how I'm 1295 01:07:15,450 --> 01:07:20,414 going to do it, it's not pre-programmed. 1296 01:07:20,414 --> 01:07:24,150 PROFESSOR: Seems like that's also something that you could 1297 01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:26,700 then play with from a design point of view. 1298 01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:30,550 This idea of disruptive narrative, and then how do you 1299 01:07:30,550 --> 01:07:31,570 put it back. 1300 01:07:31,570 --> 01:07:36,210 Just like putting the pieces back together [INAUDIBLE]. 1301 01:07:36,210 --> 01:07:38,352 GUEST SPEAKER 2: That may be the reason-- and that's 1302 01:07:38,352 --> 01:07:40,320 another speculation, I'm just making this up-- 1303 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:44,200 why adventure games are so powerful. 1304 01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:46,100 Because, in a sense, you're finding a substitute narrative 1305 01:07:46,100 --> 01:07:50,622 that is much more controllable than your own. 1306 01:07:50,622 --> 01:07:55,230 And for the time of the game you're there. 1307 01:07:55,230 --> 01:07:59,500 It's almost like you're buying a few minutes, 10 minutes, 20 1308 01:07:59,500 --> 01:08:01,500 minutes of a different story line. 1309 01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:03,690 PROFESSOR: Actually, one of our researchers here looks 1310 01:08:03,690 --> 01:08:05,212 specifically at adventure games. 1311 01:08:05,212 --> 01:08:07,570 And her point of view is that playing adventure games is 1312 01:08:07,570 --> 01:08:12,440 like being a performer who hasn't been given the script. 1313 01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,080 You're still an actor in the story, and you have to figure 1314 01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,454 out what that story is in order to move it along. 1315 01:08:23,190 --> 01:08:25,819 There's one other thing that I do want to bring up. 1316 01:08:25,819 --> 01:08:28,550 Obviously, I don't want any of these games that you guys are 1317 01:08:28,550 --> 01:08:33,819 working on to be quizzes, to be really fun quizzes, even. 1318 01:08:33,819 --> 01:08:36,219 [INAUDIBLE] 1319 01:08:36,219 --> 01:08:37,819 all this stuff is about. 1320 01:08:37,819 --> 01:08:40,097 I do want you guys to be learning games. 1321 01:08:40,097 --> 01:08:43,061 And not just Trivial Pursuit, Psychiatric Version. 1322 01:08:47,020 --> 01:08:48,809 That's kind of pointless. 1323 01:08:48,809 --> 01:08:51,600 We have had games in the past in this class where people 1324 01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:55,526 basically pulled questions out of a hat and had to answer 1325 01:08:55,526 --> 01:08:57,490 them, with various penalties. 1326 01:08:57,490 --> 01:08:59,904 Kind of fun, but that's not what I've been 1327 01:08:59,904 --> 01:09:01,729 teaching you guys. 1328 01:09:01,729 --> 01:09:03,550 So try to think about systems. 1329 01:09:03,550 --> 01:09:07,532 Try to think about all these things that they want their 1330 01:09:07,532 --> 01:09:09,390 trainees to learn. 1331 01:09:09,390 --> 01:09:12,892 Think about how they can engage with the system, in 1332 01:09:12,892 --> 01:09:14,868 some small way, for your project. 1333 01:09:19,314 --> 01:09:20,796 AUDIENCE: Can I ask a question? 1334 01:09:20,796 --> 01:09:23,760 What are your thoughts, or what are the field's thoughts 1335 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,670 on lying to people, so mitigate a situation. 1336 01:09:28,485 --> 01:09:36,120 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Well, I would call lying a distortion, in a 1337 01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,745 very general way. 1338 01:09:39,745 --> 01:09:45,222 And when people lie, they have to make a decision. 1339 01:09:45,222 --> 01:09:49,614 Often, people lie for a variety of reasons. 1340 01:09:49,614 --> 01:09:54,006 What I always am surprised by is the reason to make friends, 1341 01:09:54,006 --> 01:09:57,422 to get friendly, to resolve a situation. 1342 01:09:57,422 --> 01:10:05,175 And I don't believe in lying as a communication tool. 1343 01:10:05,175 --> 01:10:09,925 Given, it may make things easier in the short run. 1344 01:10:09,925 --> 01:10:13,818 Certainly clinically it's not helpful. 1345 01:10:13,818 --> 01:10:17,269 I was telling you about patients with borderline 1346 01:10:17,269 --> 01:10:20,720 pathology that has this affective and relational 1347 01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,690 instability that is basically taking over their lives. 1348 01:10:24,690 --> 01:10:28,427 They are some of the most accurate lie detectors that 1349 01:10:28,427 --> 01:10:29,160 you can imagine. 1350 01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:32,320 You cannot design something more perfect than that. 1351 01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,750 Especially having been in the system for a long time. 1352 01:10:34,750 --> 01:10:38,152 They can feel the lie even before it comes up. 1353 01:10:38,152 --> 01:10:40,582 And if you're going that path with them. 1354 01:10:40,582 --> 01:10:44,230 AUDIENCE: So this role play, for example, if you told 1355 01:10:44,230 --> 01:10:46,070 Bobby, well, let me go get John. 1356 01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:47,420 You wait here for a minute. 1357 01:10:47,420 --> 01:10:50,210 And then you know that John is not working right now. 1358 01:10:50,210 --> 01:10:51,550 He's nowhere in the hospital. 1359 01:10:51,550 --> 01:10:54,430 But you just told him that to safely get out, then you get 1360 01:10:54,430 --> 01:10:56,890 security to come back in with you, and you can 1361 01:10:56,890 --> 01:10:57,445 subdue him or something. 1362 01:10:57,445 --> 01:10:59,666 GUEST SPEAKER 2: That's a great example. 1363 01:10:59,666 --> 01:11:01,986 And that happens all the time. 1364 01:11:01,986 --> 01:11:05,420 Because often when you're in this place, many of your 1365 01:11:05,420 --> 01:11:07,920 requests are unreasonable. 1366 01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,150 So you need to set some limits. 1367 01:11:11,150 --> 01:11:13,752 And eventually you'll end up setting some limits. 1368 01:11:13,752 --> 01:11:15,730 He could have continued to escalate until attacking me, 1369 01:11:15,730 --> 01:11:18,352 breaking everything in the room. 1370 01:11:18,352 --> 01:11:22,708 I usually tell them about how they make others feel. 1371 01:11:22,708 --> 01:11:27,548 How unacceptable some of their behaviors are, and what are 1372 01:11:27,548 --> 01:11:28,516 the consequences. 1373 01:11:28,516 --> 01:11:33,074 So I'm going to probably tell you if this continues, I don't 1374 01:11:33,074 --> 01:11:36,278 have any other choice but to call security and you may end 1375 01:11:36,278 --> 01:11:36,490 up in restraints. 1376 01:11:36,490 --> 01:11:38,442 And with a chemical medication, it could be 1377 01:11:38,442 --> 01:11:40,900 injectable, you can take it by mouth. 1378 01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:45,168 So I'm coming up front with how the next few minutes, the 1379 01:11:45,168 --> 01:11:47,144 proximal future, looks like. 1380 01:11:47,144 --> 01:11:50,780 As opposed to kind of fudge it and get on his friendly side, 1381 01:11:50,780 --> 01:11:54,918 and, oh I don't mean anything, but the security will put you 1382 01:11:54,918 --> 01:11:56,072 in restraints. 1383 01:11:56,072 --> 01:12:01,050 So I don't want to buy him out by just becoming his friend. 1384 01:12:01,050 --> 01:12:03,050 If that involves lying-- 1385 01:12:03,050 --> 01:12:05,190 that's-- some people do it. 1386 01:12:05,190 --> 01:12:06,130 When you're in the corner, you're-- 1387 01:12:06,130 --> 01:12:08,325 OK, so what do I do now. 1388 01:12:08,325 --> 01:12:09,890 A little lie won't hurt. 1389 01:12:09,890 --> 01:12:11,095 And you do it. 1390 01:12:11,095 --> 01:12:12,292 Maybe it's just my-- 1391 01:12:12,292 --> 01:12:14,020 GUEST SPEAKER 1: What you just mentioned too, that sort of 1392 01:12:14,020 --> 01:12:15,974 like good cop, bad cop. 1393 01:12:15,974 --> 01:12:19,140 Well, I wish we could have more of a conversation here, 1394 01:12:19,140 --> 01:12:21,110 but security needs to put you in restraints. 1395 01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:22,290 Security's the bad guy. 1396 01:12:22,290 --> 01:12:24,610 When that's exactly where you want the 1397 01:12:24,610 --> 01:12:25,801 patient to be anyways. 1398 01:12:25,801 --> 01:12:27,486 GUEST SPEAKER 2: I'm OK, but you know Jim. 1399 01:12:27,486 --> 01:12:28,830 He doesn't tolerate it. 1400 01:12:28,830 --> 01:12:30,620 He's the director and he's going to-- 1401 01:12:30,620 --> 01:12:31,910 [LAUGHTER] 1402 01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:33,820 GUEST SPEAKER 2: Does that answer your question? 1403 01:12:33,820 --> 01:12:34,380 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1404 01:12:34,380 --> 01:12:35,020 Would you-- 1405 01:12:35,020 --> 01:12:36,270 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1406 01:12:38,244 --> 01:12:40,745 AUDIENCE: I guess my followup is would you ever sneakily put 1407 01:12:40,745 --> 01:12:42,940 medicine in someone's food or do something [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1408 01:12:42,940 --> 01:12:48,716 GUEST SPEAKER 2: It's not only a lawsuit waiting to happen, 1409 01:12:48,716 --> 01:12:54,080 of a major magnitude, but I don't think it's right. 1410 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,566 Even though probably reality is that family members and 1411 01:12:58,566 --> 01:13:01,458 sometimes even providers in nursing homes may do that. 1412 01:13:01,458 --> 01:13:04,006 But I think it's-- 1413 01:13:04,006 --> 01:13:07,010 GUEST SPEAKER 1: You may need to treat the person against 1414 01:13:07,010 --> 01:13:09,450 their will, which is often meaning putting them into 1415 01:13:09,450 --> 01:13:11,640 physical restraints, which is usually like leather kind of 1416 01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,800 things, kind of a straitjacket thing, or maybe to a bed. 1417 01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,480 And maybe physically inject them with something to really 1418 01:13:17,480 --> 01:13:18,420 sedate them. 1419 01:13:18,420 --> 01:13:20,174 But you should always be telling them what you're going 1420 01:13:20,174 --> 01:13:20,990 to do, right. 1421 01:13:20,990 --> 01:13:23,230 And the reason why you're doing it. 1422 01:13:23,230 --> 01:13:24,895 Even if they don't have any choice in the matter. 1423 01:13:24,895 --> 01:13:27,780 GUEST SPEAKER 2: And if you feel that the person is unable 1424 01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:35,490 to comprehend, then you may need to work towards 1425 01:13:35,490 --> 01:13:36,700 appointing a guardian who will take 1426 01:13:36,700 --> 01:13:39,240 decisions for that person. 1427 01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,810 And it's not necessarily that the legal field has pushed 1428 01:13:41,810 --> 01:13:43,940 itself very hard in field. 1429 01:13:43,940 --> 01:13:46,390 But I think it's fair. 1430 01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:48,250 You meet the person where that person is at, 1431 01:13:48,250 --> 01:13:49,550 and try to be helpful. 1432 01:13:49,550 --> 01:13:53,010 And I think, in my view, there is no substitute for being 1433 01:13:53,010 --> 01:13:55,390 upfront and saying this is what's going to happen. 1434 01:13:55,390 --> 01:13:58,490 He may not be my best friend, but he knows exactly. 1435 01:13:58,490 --> 01:14:02,873 I'm telling the patients often ahead what's going to happen. 1436 01:14:02,873 --> 01:14:05,010 In that sense, I'm giving them choices. 1437 01:14:05,010 --> 01:14:07,279 So if I end up taking them to court for 1438 01:14:07,279 --> 01:14:08,700 commitment, they know that. 1439 01:14:08,700 --> 01:14:13,220 And you would be surprised how angry they are at the 1440 01:14:13,220 --> 01:14:15,386 beginning and how OK they are later. 1441 01:14:15,386 --> 01:14:18,580 And how often they come up to me and say, thank you, I was 1442 01:14:18,580 --> 01:14:23,480 in a very bad space and I didn't want to, and I fought 1443 01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:24,950 you all the way but I think that was the best solution. 1444 01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:28,380 I don't necessarily do that to get that thanks. 1445 01:14:28,380 --> 01:14:30,340 I just do it as a principle. 1446 01:14:30,340 --> 01:14:31,820 Often it doesn't come. 1447 01:14:31,820 --> 01:14:33,200 It's not like people are grateful. 1448 01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,880 Often they leave the hospital. 1449 01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,505 GUEST SPEAKER 1: Let me show a little of this training, just 1450 01:14:39,505 --> 01:14:39,880 a few minutes. 1451 01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:44,580 This is a project I've been working on a lot for NASA, 1452 01:14:44,580 --> 01:14:47,920 which is basically to develop a mental health support system 1453 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,410 for the long duration space cruise. 1454 01:14:49,410 --> 01:14:51,730 And this is kind of a whole other topic. 1455 01:14:51,730 --> 01:14:54,880 But just one piece of this was teaching the astronauts how to 1456 01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,236 manage conflict, interpersonal conflict more 1457 01:14:58,236 --> 01:15:00,515 effectively or safely. 1458 01:15:03,370 --> 01:15:05,810 Astronauts being a very different population from what 1459 01:15:05,810 --> 01:15:07,762 we were talking about. 1460 01:15:42,444 --> 01:15:45,420 [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 1461 01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:49,636 --Welcome to the virtual space station, where you can access 1462 01:15:49,636 --> 01:15:52,116 training and resources to help deal with the stresses of long 1463 01:15:52,116 --> 01:15:53,356 duration space flights. 1464 01:15:53,356 --> 01:15:56,332 In the training simulator, you'll interact with virtual 1465 01:15:56,332 --> 01:15:58,812 crew members to learn and practice managing some of the 1466 01:15:58,812 --> 01:16:01,788 problems that might come up on long duration missions. 1467 01:16:01,788 --> 01:16:05,508 The resources modules has more advanced training that you can 1468 01:16:05,508 --> 01:16:08,020 do to learn about adapting to the stresses of living in 1469 01:16:08,020 --> 01:16:11,055 isolation, plus interviews with long duration flyers. 1470 01:16:11,055 --> 01:16:15,370 It also has a number of ebooks and audio books on dealing 1471 01:16:15,370 --> 01:16:16,070 with stress. 1472 01:16:16,070 --> 01:16:18,860 Plus survival stories about polar missions and other 1473 01:16:18,860 --> 01:16:20,020 adventures. 1474 01:16:20,020 --> 01:16:24,136 In the self-assessment module, you'll find questionnaires-- 1475 01:16:24,136 --> 01:16:24,588 [END VIDEO PLAYBACK] 1476 01:16:24,588 --> 01:16:27,760 GUEST SPEAKER 1: This is basically the whole interface. 1477 01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,084 What I'll show you here is our simulator. 1478 01:16:31,084 --> 01:16:31,512 [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 1479 01:16:31,512 --> 01:16:33,455 --This is the training simulator. 1480 01:16:33,455 --> 01:16:36,030 Click on the topic you would like to learn about. 1481 01:16:36,030 --> 01:16:40,350 Then the coach or mentor for that topic will takeover and 1482 01:16:40,350 --> 01:16:41,310 guide you through. 1483 01:16:41,310 --> 01:16:41,790 -- 1484 01:16:41,790 --> 01:16:42,750 This is the conflict 1485 01:16:42,750 --> 01:16:44,190 management part of the simulator. 1486 01:16:44,190 --> 01:16:48,245 We recommend that you do the 10 minute briefing first. 1487 01:16:48,245 --> 01:16:49,840 After you complete each simulation-- 1488 01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:51,090 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1489 01:16:55,050 --> 01:16:57,425 Here's how these simulations work. 1490 01:16:57,425 --> 01:17:00,730 You're flight engineer one, or FE1. 1491 01:17:00,730 --> 01:17:04,440 Your crew mate, Chuck, is flight engineer two. 1492 01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:08,030 We'll be giving you three choices of what to say or do. 1493 01:17:08,030 --> 01:17:11,050 You can roll your mouse over them to hear how they're said. 1494 01:17:11,050 --> 01:17:14,660 Even though some options are more likely than others to 1495 01:17:14,660 --> 01:17:17,360 reduce the conflict, I recommend that you try out 1496 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:19,648 options you might not choose in real life. 1497 01:17:19,648 --> 01:17:22,680 That's because all paths in these simulations lead to 1498 01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:24,210 teaching points. 1499 01:17:24,210 --> 01:17:27,835 You can click the backup button anytime if you want to 1500 01:17:27,835 --> 01:17:29,650 change your choice and go down another pathway. 1501 01:17:29,650 --> 01:17:32,760 You can click on the fair fighting manual at any time to 1502 01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:34,560 read some tips. 1503 01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:36,220 You'll also find this manual in the 1504 01:17:36,220 --> 01:17:38,573 resource module's library. 1505 01:17:38,573 --> 01:17:41,860 Now as you go through the simulation, I'll be right here 1506 01:17:41,860 --> 01:17:44,240 coaching you along the way. 1507 01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:45,040 OK. 1508 01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,193 Back to the simulation. 1509 01:17:47,193 --> 01:17:50,990 It's four months into your mission, with five and a half 1510 01:17:50,990 --> 01:17:51,820 left to go. 1511 01:17:51,820 --> 01:17:54,790 So far, the mission's been going pretty well. 1512 01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:58,750 But you're both tired, having had to sleep shift last night. 1513 01:18:03,205 --> 01:18:03,700 -- 1514 01:18:03,700 --> 01:18:06,530 Is your display getting squirrelly? 1515 01:18:06,530 --> 01:18:08,580 Shoot, mine too. 1516 01:18:08,580 --> 01:18:11,108 Damn, I think the whole system's down. 1517 01:18:11,108 --> 01:18:12,972 It was the wrong cable. 1518 01:18:12,972 --> 01:18:16,360 When I was installing the recorder I 1519 01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:18,350 disconnected the A10 cable. 1520 01:18:18,350 --> 01:18:21,433 I fixed it right away but I think it screwed 1521 01:18:21,433 --> 01:18:22,390 up the whole system. 1522 01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:25,260 Look, if ground calls, don't tell them about the cable. 1523 01:18:29,555 --> 01:18:29,960 -- 1524 01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:31,782 Ah, this is a tricky situation. 1525 01:18:31,782 --> 01:18:35,149 You believe it's important to tell the ground what happened. 1526 01:18:35,149 --> 01:18:38,690 At the same time, you don't want Chuck to get in trouble. 1527 01:18:38,690 --> 01:18:41,630 What's your response? 1528 01:18:41,630 --> 01:18:42,030 -- 1529 01:18:42,030 --> 01:18:44,110 They'll spend hours trying to figure this out. 1530 01:18:44,110 --> 01:18:45,185 We got to tell them. 1531 01:18:45,185 --> 01:18:47,520 What's wrong with telling the ground. 1532 01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:47,790 -- 1533 01:18:47,790 --> 01:18:48,070 You're saying make a choice. 1534 01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:48,405 -- 1535 01:18:48,405 --> 01:18:50,740 OK, but you're putting me in a bad position. 1536 01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:51,240 -- 1537 01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:51,740 I know. 1538 01:18:51,740 --> 01:18:53,740 But thanks you're a real friend. 1539 01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:55,740 I owe you big time. 1540 01:18:59,240 --> 01:18:59,740 -- 1541 01:18:59,740 --> 01:19:00,985 Houston, this is FE2. 1542 01:19:00,985 --> 01:19:02,235 Go ahead. 1543 01:19:04,300 --> 01:19:04,580 No. 1544 01:19:04,580 --> 01:19:04,860 Negative. 1545 01:19:04,860 --> 01:19:07,904 I have no idea. 1546 01:19:07,904 --> 01:19:08,790 Yeah I know. 1547 01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:12,351 I already got the reboot started. 1548 01:19:12,351 --> 01:19:17,420 No, I guess it's too early to say what the impact is. 1549 01:19:17,420 --> 01:19:17,905 Roger that. 1550 01:19:17,905 --> 01:19:20,060 I'll let you know if it happens again. 1551 01:19:20,060 --> 01:19:21,310 FE2 out. 1552 01:19:24,156 --> 01:19:24,640 -- 1553 01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:27,890 You're feeling very anxious having just heard Chuck lie to 1554 01:19:27,890 --> 01:19:28,970 the ground. 1555 01:19:28,970 --> 01:19:33,152 You're worried that this might backfire on you, if the ground 1556 01:19:33,152 --> 01:19:34,960 finds out that you knew what happened. 1557 01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,090 This makes you very angry at Chuck. 1558 01:19:37,090 --> 01:19:39,450 How would you like to respond? 1559 01:19:39,450 --> 01:19:39,930 [END VIDEO PLAYBACK] 1560 01:19:39,930 --> 01:19:42,440 GUEST SPEAKER 1: The reason I'm showing you this is that 1561 01:19:42,440 --> 01:19:44,820 this is one approach that I've taken to teaching how to 1562 01:19:44,820 --> 01:19:47,410 handle an interaction with somebody through sort of a 1563 01:19:47,410 --> 01:19:47,880 simulation. 1564 01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:49,750 Now this is obviously not a game. 1565 01:19:49,750 --> 01:19:50,170 There's no score. 1566 01:19:50,170 --> 01:19:51,220 There's no time limit. 1567 01:19:51,220 --> 01:19:54,060 It's more of an interactive movie. 1568 01:19:54,060 --> 01:19:57,570 But with the teaching points here, just like what Cesar's 1569 01:19:57,570 --> 01:20:00,870 given you is, we can give this to an astronaut and they'll 1570 01:20:00,870 --> 01:20:04,050 read it in 5-10 minutes and say, yup, got it, what's the 1571 01:20:04,050 --> 01:20:04,760 next thing. 1572 01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:06,820 That doesn't mean they actually can use it, remember 1573 01:20:06,820 --> 01:20:09,420 it, absorbed it. 1574 01:20:09,420 --> 01:20:10,745 and I'm not saying that this is the way they 1575 01:20:10,745 --> 01:20:11,600 should do your games. 1576 01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:17,395 But that this is one approach that we've taken to try to get 1577 01:20:17,395 --> 01:20:20,730 them more involved with the material in more of a 1578 01:20:20,730 --> 01:20:21,910 simulated way. 1579 01:20:21,910 --> 01:20:24,500 We can just do maybe one or two more of this. 1580 01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:25,890 What would you like to do here? 1581 01:20:25,890 --> 01:20:26,340 [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 1582 01:20:26,340 --> 01:20:26,750 -- 1583 01:20:26,750 --> 01:20:29,130 Chuck, we need to talk about this. 1584 01:20:29,130 --> 01:20:29,610 -- 1585 01:20:29,610 --> 01:20:31,540 What is there to talk about? 1586 01:20:31,540 --> 01:20:33,840 Ground doesn't need to know every single 1587 01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,184 little detail, alright? 1588 01:20:35,184 --> 01:20:38,285 Plus if we do tell them, next thing you know we're going to 1589 01:20:38,285 --> 01:20:38,530 be all over the news. 1590 01:20:38,530 --> 01:20:38,970 -- 1591 01:20:38,970 --> 01:20:40,360 This was a good choice. 1592 01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:44,135 Even though Chuck seems exasperated, you know what's 1593 01:20:44,135 --> 01:20:45,290 going on in his mind. 1594 01:20:45,290 --> 01:20:47,970 Understanding what each other is thinking goes a long way to 1595 01:20:47,970 --> 01:20:49,383 solving conflict. 1596 01:20:49,383 --> 01:20:52,855 Chuck is concerned about the ruckus this might cause about 1597 01:20:52,855 --> 01:20:54,480 negative media attention. 1598 01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:56,320 But now you have something to work with. 1599 01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,316 What's your next move? 1600 01:21:02,308 --> 01:21:02,810 -- 1601 01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:03,590 I know you-- 1602 01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:05,780 you've been doing excellent work so far. 1603 01:21:05,780 --> 01:21:07,753 I can see you're really scared of them. 1604 01:21:11,134 --> 01:21:15,108 I know you don't want to draw a lot of attention. 1605 01:21:15,108 --> 01:21:16,599 What'll you think will happen if they figure it out? 1606 01:21:16,599 --> 01:21:17,096 -- 1607 01:21:17,096 --> 01:21:17,593 OK. 1608 01:21:17,593 --> 01:21:19,084 You got a point. 1609 01:21:19,084 --> 01:21:19,581 I'll get fried. 1610 01:21:19,581 --> 01:21:24,205 Especially if it looked like I was trying to cover it up. 1611 01:21:24,205 --> 01:21:27,790 You know, this really is a team issue. 1612 01:21:30,961 --> 01:21:31,420 -- 1613 01:21:31,420 --> 01:21:34,670 On one hand, you seemed to get Chuck to come around to your 1614 01:21:34,670 --> 01:21:35,500 perspective. 1615 01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:38,560 But the ground really needs to know what happened. 1616 01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,940 On the other hand, he's asking you to share the 1617 01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:44,350 responsibility, even though it really wasn't your fault. 1618 01:21:44,350 --> 01:21:45,810 You have mixed feelings. 1619 01:21:45,810 --> 01:21:48,810 You don't want to be blamed for a mistake you didn't make. 1620 01:21:48,810 --> 01:21:51,360 But you're concerned about keeping a good relationship 1621 01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:52,225 with Chuck. 1622 01:21:52,225 --> 01:21:53,525 How are you going to respond? 1623 01:21:56,106 --> 01:21:56,490 -- 1624 01:21:56,490 --> 01:21:57,360 I'm sorry, Chuck. 1625 01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,900 But this was your mistake. 1626 01:22:00,900 --> 01:22:02,150 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1627 01:22:16,265 --> 01:22:19,758 [LAUGHTER] 1628 01:22:19,758 --> 01:22:20,260 -- 1629 01:22:20,260 --> 01:22:21,430 Houston, this is FE2. 1630 01:22:21,430 --> 01:22:21,925 -- 1631 01:22:21,925 --> 01:22:22,915 Go ahead, FE2. 1632 01:22:22,915 --> 01:22:23,410 -- 1633 01:22:23,410 --> 01:22:25,760 Houston, I think we found the problem. 1634 01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:28,360 The instructions you sent up for the recorder had some 1635 01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,020 serious problems. 1636 01:22:30,020 --> 01:22:33,125 When you follow the recorder connect procedure, you can end 1637 01:22:33,125 --> 01:22:35,105 up disconnecting A10. 1638 01:22:35,105 --> 01:22:37,454 It may need to be validated. 1639 01:22:37,454 --> 01:22:37,941 -- 1640 01:22:37,941 --> 01:22:38,915 Copy that, FE2. 1641 01:22:38,915 --> 01:22:40,863 The procedures team ran through this in the mock-up, 1642 01:22:40,863 --> 01:22:43,298 but they can give it another look. 1643 01:22:43,298 --> 01:22:43,785 -- 1644 01:22:43,785 --> 01:22:49,060 In any organization [LAUGHTER] 1645 01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:51,700 Sometimes this can help to create a bond within the 1646 01:22:51,700 --> 01:22:54,502 workgroup, because everybody has a common enemy. 1647 01:22:54,502 --> 01:22:58,041 But, even though scapegoating the ground may keep the crew 1648 01:22:58,041 --> 01:23:03,288 unified for a while, 1649 01:23:03,288 --> 01:23:03,764 [END VIDEO PLAYBACK] 1650 01:23:03,764 --> 01:23:04,520 GUEST SPEAKER 1: OK. 1651 01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,825 You kind of get the idea. 1652 01:23:07,825 --> 01:23:10,240 We'd like to be available by email, in case you guys have 1653 01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:11,590 any questions. 1654 01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:15,500 PROFESSOR: I'll sent out some tech information to the class 1655 01:23:15,500 --> 01:23:18,930 list and we're probably going to spend the rest of this week 1656 01:23:18,930 --> 01:23:20,110 being around all of you so we're not quite sure yet 1657 01:23:20,110 --> 01:23:21,360 exactly what we're going to do yet. 1658 01:23:24,745 --> 01:23:25,995 Hopefully [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 1659 01:23:29,850 --> 01:23:32,580 I just have a couple more [UNINTELLIGIBLE] things to do. 1660 01:23:32,580 --> 01:23:35,610 I wanted to thank you guys first of all. 1661 01:23:35,610 --> 01:23:40,450 [APPLAUSE] 1662 01:23:40,450 --> 01:23:42,430 So let's see. 1663 01:23:42,430 --> 01:23:45,290 On next Wednesday, which is the Wednesday right before 1664 01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:49,040 Thanksgiving, I think a couple of folks are probably going to 1665 01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:50,290 be getting out-- 1666 01:23:54,020 --> 01:23:57,970 because I've been hearing some daffy stuff about what the TSA 1667 01:23:57,970 --> 01:24:00,095 might be doing, and what people have been doing in 1668 01:24:00,095 --> 01:24:01,540 response to TSA [LAUGHTER]. 1669 01:24:04,420 --> 01:24:07,250 Getting to the airport early, if you are flying out, might 1670 01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:08,890 be a good idea. 1671 01:24:08,890 --> 01:24:12,120 Because if everybody decides to refuse the bag scanner 1672 01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,430 scans and the body searches, then we're talking about some 1673 01:24:15,430 --> 01:24:15,910 real delays. 1674 01:24:15,910 --> 01:24:17,170 Anyway. 1675 01:24:17,170 --> 01:24:21,090 So I think what I'm going to do is [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1676 01:24:21,090 --> 01:24:22,340 this class. 1677 01:24:25,590 --> 01:24:28,525 If there are teams who are really wanting to do a live 1678 01:24:28,525 --> 01:24:31,550 action game, and they want to get a head start on that, talk 1679 01:24:31,550 --> 01:24:32,560 to me directly. 1680 01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:37,150 And maybe what we can do is, meet up with you as a team. 1681 01:24:37,150 --> 01:24:40,220 And try to get some of ideas across. 1682 01:24:40,220 --> 01:24:43,450 Do a brainstorming with me. 1683 01:24:43,450 --> 01:24:46,610 I will also get into talking about live action games the 1684 01:24:46,610 --> 01:24:47,907 following week. 1685 01:24:47,907 --> 01:24:50,769 I'll schedule one of the classes for that. 1686 01:24:50,769 --> 01:24:54,130 So we're not going to miss that topic. 1687 01:24:54,130 --> 01:24:56,880 I just worried that if we get to it too late, and you are 1688 01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:58,470 making live action games, then you don't have enough material 1689 01:24:58,470 --> 01:24:59,720 to work with. 1690 01:25:06,590 --> 01:25:10,520 Finally, about this assignment, if the subject 1691 01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:16,436 matter is at all uncomfortable for you to work with, and you 1692 01:25:16,436 --> 01:25:22,620 can't really find something in this fairly large topic that 1693 01:25:22,620 --> 01:25:25,531 you will be comfortable working with and you can't 1694 01:25:25,531 --> 01:25:28,720 find a team, talk to me directly. 1695 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,950 And we can work out some other assignment. 1696 01:25:31,950 --> 01:25:34,270 I can't say that I have an assignment in my back pocket 1697 01:25:34,270 --> 01:25:37,930 all ready to go, and more likely than not, I'm 1698 01:25:37,930 --> 01:25:40,799 half-assing it too. 1699 01:25:40,799 --> 01:25:45,629 I would much prefer folks to work on this problem that I 1700 01:25:45,629 --> 01:25:46,595 think is fascinating. 1701 01:25:46,595 --> 01:25:50,459 And a pretty big problem that you can find some small 1702 01:25:50,459 --> 01:25:51,425 project that you're comfortable with. 1703 01:25:51,425 --> 01:25:56,080 But if you are, I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable 1704 01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,580 due to [INAUDIBLE]. 1705 01:25:57,580 --> 01:25:58,830 So just talk to me.