WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.040 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.470 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.470 --> 00:00:03.880 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:03.880 --> 00:00:06.920 align:middle line:84% Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 00:00:06.920 --> 00:00:10.570 align:middle line:84% offer high quality educational resources for free. 00:00:10.570 --> 00:00:13.470 align:middle line:84% To make a donation, or view additional materials from 00:00:13.470 --> 00:00:17.875 align:middle line:84% hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 00:00:17.875 --> 00:00:20.531 align:middle line:90% ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:20.531 --> 00:00:24.622 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: We'll start with a little bit of recap from two 00:00:24.622 --> 00:00:26.914 align:middle line:90% Fridays ago. 00:00:26.914 --> 00:00:31.310 align:middle line:84% But just a reminder of things to keep in mind while you guys 00:00:31.310 --> 00:00:31.800 align:middle line:90% are testing. 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:35.635 align:middle line:84% On one hand, most of you are pretty much the most expert 00:00:35.635 --> 00:00:40.370 align:middle line:84% players in your game at this point in time, [INAUDIBLE] 00:00:40.370 --> 00:00:41.700 align:middle line:84% You know the game better than anybody else. 00:00:41.700 --> 00:00:43.085 align:middle line:90% And the kind of things that-- 00:00:43.085 --> 00:00:45.640 align:middle line:90% 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:47.600 align:middle line:84% that means you suck as a tester. 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:52.310 align:middle line:84% That means you still have a role to play as testers. 00:00:52.310 --> 00:00:55.750 align:middle line:84% You can be looking for the degenerate strategies, and you 00:00:55.750 --> 00:00:57.120 align:middle line:90% can be looking for exploits. 00:00:57.120 --> 00:01:00.418 align:middle line:84% Sometimes it takes more imagination than a 00:01:00.418 --> 00:01:04.516 align:middle line:84% sleep-deprived MIT student has available to them, to be able 00:01:04.516 --> 00:01:06.210 align:middle line:90% to see these exploits. 00:01:06.210 --> 00:01:08.495 align:middle line:84% But, because you know the systems better than anyone 00:01:08.495 --> 00:01:11.700 align:middle line:84% else, you're in a good position to spot that. 00:01:11.700 --> 00:01:13.910 align:middle line:84% The kinds of things you're looking for are obviously 00:01:13.910 --> 00:01:15.720 align:middle line:90% value [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:01:15.720 --> 00:01:16.580 align:middle line:90% strategy. 00:01:16.580 --> 00:01:22.080 align:middle line:84% I mentioned that the last time we were in this room. 00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:28.080 align:middle line:84% But also, look for those strategies were, like, OK, I 00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:29.610 align:middle line:90% have two [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:01:29.610 --> 00:01:32.390 align:middle line:84% those decision points where I could do decision A or I could 00:01:32.390 --> 00:01:38.940 align:middle line:84% do the decision B, but if I change my strategy, and nobody 00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:41.920 align:middle line:84% else has changed their strategy, I'm screwed. 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:46.110 align:middle line:84% And that makes it really really hesitant for someone to 00:01:46.110 --> 00:01:51.080 align:middle line:84% say, well, Strategy B could be really interesting, I can go 00:01:51.080 --> 00:01:55.330 align:middle line:84% for this kind of play, but on the assumption that the only 00:01:55.330 --> 00:01:58.270 align:middle line:84% way how this is going to be beneficial is if everybody 00:01:58.270 --> 00:01:59.730 align:middle line:84% else also changes their strategy. 00:01:59.730 --> 00:02:04.310 align:middle line:84% Now you have a situation where nobody wants to try that 00:02:04.310 --> 00:02:05.370 align:middle line:90% second option. 00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:07.930 align:middle line:84% That's one way to think about cyberpunks. 00:02:07.930 --> 00:02:12.610 align:middle line:84% It's like, if you change your position and the only way that 00:02:12.610 --> 00:02:16.698 align:middle line:84% you can change your position is at a cost to yourself, then 00:02:16.698 --> 00:02:20.925 align:middle line:84% the benefits of changing that position is going to be lower 00:02:20.925 --> 00:02:24.940 align:middle line:84% than the risk that you're taking on, then you've got a 00:02:24.940 --> 00:02:27.716 align:middle line:84% situation where it's very difficult to break out of one 00:02:27.716 --> 00:02:28.950 align:middle line:90% dominant strategy. 00:02:28.950 --> 00:02:31.100 align:middle line:84% So if you've got a situation where there are three dominant 00:02:31.100 --> 00:02:35.550 align:middle line:84% strategies, then none of them are dominant anymore that's 00:02:35.550 --> 00:02:38.420 align:middle line:84% great, now I have an option of different 00:02:38.420 --> 00:02:41.630 align:middle line:90% things they can choose. 00:02:41.630 --> 00:02:44.065 align:middle line:84% So that's just one thing to keep in mind if all you guys 00:02:44.065 --> 00:02:45.560 align:middle line:90% are looking at a game. 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:47.530 align:middle line:84% If everyone just ends up adopting the same strategy, 00:02:47.530 --> 00:02:52.860 align:middle line:84% and you're just hoping for a chance of drawing the right 00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:56.445 align:middle line:84% cards, in order to win your game, then [UNINTELLIGIBLE], 00:02:56.445 --> 00:02:59.070 align:middle line:84% then you've got a game where the individual player's 00:02:59.070 --> 00:03:03.232 align:middle line:84% decisions aren't quite that influential on the outcome. 00:03:03.232 --> 00:03:07.955 align:middle line:84% And I still need to play your games to be able to see what 00:03:07.955 --> 00:03:08.840 align:middle line:90% you guys are going for. 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:11.500 align:middle line:84% But, for the most part, it looks like you guys are not 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:14.082 align:middle line:84% going for a purely chance-based game. 00:03:14.082 --> 00:03:16.305 align:middle line:84% You're looking for something where someone's decision 00:03:16.305 --> 00:03:18.610 align:middle line:90% actually matters. 00:03:18.610 --> 00:03:22.590 align:middle line:84% So that's one reminder from the game theory point of view. 00:03:22.590 --> 00:03:25.260 align:middle line:84% And the other one I never really got time to talk about 00:03:25.260 --> 00:03:27.030 align:middle line:84% games or system of conflict, and we don't have a huge 00:03:27.030 --> 00:03:29.070 align:middle line:84% amount of time because we have today's 00:03:29.070 --> 00:03:31.670 align:middle line:90% readings to go through. 00:03:31.670 --> 00:03:37.760 align:middle line:84% But if you think about games as games where multiple people 00:03:37.760 --> 00:03:39.580 align:middle line:84% are striving for some sort of goal, and there are going to 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:41.350 align:middle line:84% be winners and there are going to be losers, then the idea of 00:03:41.350 --> 00:03:46.040 align:middle line:84% thinking of games as some kind of conflict makes sense. 00:03:46.040 --> 00:03:49.585 align:middle line:84% If you think of them as, are games competitive, or are 00:03:49.585 --> 00:03:54.630 align:middle line:84% games cooperative, for throughout some games that are 00:03:54.630 --> 00:04:00.490 align:middle line:84% known to be cooperative [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:02.590 align:middle line:84% there are certain modes in certain different games that 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:06.320 align:middle line:84% flip it from competitive to cooperative. 00:04:06.320 --> 00:04:08.100 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:04:08.100 --> 00:04:11.065 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But it is designed for four people to play, all 00:04:11.065 --> 00:04:12.070 align:middle line:90% going for the same goal. 00:04:12.070 --> 00:04:13.450 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Gears of War 00:04:13.450 --> 00:04:17.079 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Gears of War multiplayer, yeah. 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:18.320 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] interesting, yeah. 00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:23.180 align:middle line:84% Because it's kind of the risk of cooperation. 00:04:23.180 --> 00:04:29.050 align:middle line:84% Pandemic is you against the board, actually. 00:04:29.050 --> 00:04:31.000 align:middle line:90% You against the game rules. 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.726 align:middle line:84% And actually, that leads into today's lecture a bit. 00:04:35.726 --> 00:04:38.770 align:middle line:84% So hang onto that idea of Pandemic. 00:04:38.770 --> 00:04:42.910 align:middle line:84% But there is one argument that all games are competitive. 00:04:42.910 --> 00:04:46.030 align:middle line:84% Even games like Left for Dead, where you're playing against 00:04:46.030 --> 00:04:47.380 align:middle line:84% the computer, or Pandemic, when you're playing against 00:04:47.380 --> 00:04:49.460 align:middle line:90% the game rules. 00:04:49.460 --> 00:04:50.210 align:middle line:90% Or-- 00:04:50.210 --> 00:04:51.960 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Shelter [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:04:51.960 --> 00:04:53.843 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a bit-- 00:04:53.843 --> 00:04:55.320 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:04:55.320 --> 00:04:56.825 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: You're mostly playing 00:04:56.825 --> 00:04:58.280 align:middle line:90% against the game rules. 00:04:58.280 --> 00:05:00.060 align:middle line:84% Unless there's a trader, there's not 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:01.240 align:middle line:90% always one in the game. 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:06.700 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But the basic idea is that even in a game that's 00:05:06.700 --> 00:05:08.420 align:middle line:84% generally assumed to be co-op, you're still 00:05:08.420 --> 00:05:09.590 align:middle line:90% playing against the world. 00:05:09.590 --> 00:05:12.870 align:middle line:84% So as competitive against the world, just not here, 00:05:12.870 --> 00:05:15.215 align:middle line:84% computing against the other human people 00:05:15.215 --> 00:05:15.770 align:middle line:90% that are playing it. 00:05:15.770 --> 00:05:16.550 align:middle line:90% If they're competing against. 00:05:16.550 --> 00:05:19.270 align:middle line:84% Anyone is probably going to decide who set it up, to 00:05:19.270 --> 00:05:20.300 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:23.150 align:middle line:84% So that's one way to think of all games as competitive. 00:05:23.150 --> 00:05:26.616 align:middle line:84% Obviously, the games that people generally think of as 00:05:26.616 --> 00:05:29.420 align:middle line:84% competitive, real-time games like chess, for instance. 00:05:29.420 --> 00:05:31.530 align:middle line:84% There's one winner, there's one loser, and if there's a 00:05:31.530 --> 00:05:34.650 align:middle line:90% draw then nobody wins. 00:05:34.650 --> 00:05:38.460 align:middle line:84% Or, those games people generally think of as 00:05:38.460 --> 00:05:39.380 align:middle line:90% competitive. 00:05:39.380 --> 00:05:42.290 align:middle line:84% But then, the other way to think about cooperation is 00:05:42.290 --> 00:05:44.370 align:middle line:84% that all games are also cooperative. 00:05:44.370 --> 00:05:46.390 align:middle line:84% Because if you don't agree on the rules-- 00:05:46.390 --> 00:05:50.850 align:middle line:84% if you're all in fact not playing the same rules, then 00:05:50.850 --> 00:05:54.030 align:middle line:84% you don't actually have a game. 00:05:54.030 --> 00:05:56.500 align:middle line:84% So you all have to cooperate to play. 00:05:56.500 --> 00:06:00.510 align:middle line:84% We have the same set of rules and we're going to play 00:06:00.510 --> 00:06:01.270 align:middle line:90% according to them. 00:06:01.270 --> 00:06:02.760 align:middle line:84% That's not necessarily the same thing as saying that 00:06:02.760 --> 00:06:04.700 align:middle line:90% everyone knows all the rules. 00:06:04.700 --> 00:06:07.230 align:middle line:84% There are plenty of games, especially computer games, 00:06:07.230 --> 00:06:09.460 align:middle line:84% where you're going into the game not 00:06:09.460 --> 00:06:10.610 align:middle line:90% knowing all the rules. 00:06:10.610 --> 00:06:12.960 align:middle line:84% You're going to try to figure out the rules as the one 00:06:12.960 --> 00:06:15.290 align:middle line:90% system lets you. 00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:17.550 align:middle line:84% Role-playing games, where you start off like, 00:06:17.550 --> 00:06:18.930 align:middle line:90% I want to do this. 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:21.510 align:middle line:84% I want to-- you know, get drunk now, 00:06:21.510 --> 00:06:22.625 align:middle line:90% and how do I do that? 00:06:22.625 --> 00:06:25.524 align:middle line:84% And then the GM tells you the rules. 00:06:25.524 --> 00:06:28.380 align:middle line:90% Roll against your-- 00:06:28.380 --> 00:06:28.856 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Constitution. 00:06:28.856 --> 00:06:31.280 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Constitution, is it constitution? 00:06:31.280 --> 00:06:32.495 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] but. 00:06:32.495 --> 00:06:32.930 align:middle line:90% Drunkenness. 00:06:32.930 --> 00:06:33.660 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Always good. 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:34.910 align:middle line:90% Possibly. 00:06:34.910 --> 00:06:36.740 align:middle line:90% 00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:40.670 align:middle line:84% And then you get told the rules. 00:06:40.670 --> 00:06:43.076 align:middle line:90% And then you go and do it. 00:06:43.076 --> 00:06:45.050 align:middle line:84% Live-action role-playing games. 00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:45.880 align:middle line:84% I know there's a bunch of people here who play them. 00:06:45.880 --> 00:06:48.170 align:middle line:84% You usually get a subset of all the rules that were 00:06:48.170 --> 00:06:49.380 align:middle line:90% written for the game. 00:06:49.380 --> 00:06:51.330 align:middle line:84% You get the subset that pertains to you. 00:06:51.330 --> 00:06:54.940 align:middle line:84% And you assume that everybody else has the subset that 00:06:54.940 --> 00:06:56.030 align:middle line:90% pertains to them. 00:06:56.030 --> 00:06:58.150 align:middle line:84% And that they're playing according to it. 00:06:58.150 --> 00:07:00.850 align:middle line:84% There's a strong honor system, and even in a game, especially 00:07:00.850 --> 00:07:05.585 align:middle line:84% the kinds that are played in MIT, which are fiercely 00:07:05.585 --> 00:07:05.970 align:middle line:90% competitive. 00:07:05.970 --> 00:07:08.200 align:middle line:84% There's literally assassin games. 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:10.790 align:middle line:84% You literally want to lead someone into a dark alley and 00:07:10.790 --> 00:07:13.590 align:middle line:90% shoot them. 00:07:13.590 --> 00:07:16.110 align:middle line:84% Even then, you have to assume that whatever rules that 00:07:16.110 --> 00:07:18.870 align:middle line:84% person, who you're leading down a dark alley in order to 00:07:18.870 --> 00:07:19.350 align:middle line:90% shoot them. 00:07:19.350 --> 00:07:21.130 align:middle line:84% Whatever rules [UNINTELLIGIBLE] they're 00:07:21.130 --> 00:07:21.910 align:middle line:90% playing by those rules. 00:07:21.910 --> 00:07:23.610 align:middle line:90% They're not going to say-- 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:27.290 align:middle line:84% if you shoot them, they can say, that didn't work. 00:07:27.290 --> 00:07:30.544 align:middle line:84% You have to assume that actually didn't work, because 00:07:30.544 --> 00:07:32.410 align:middle line:84% they have rules that tell them when it works and when it 00:07:32.410 --> 00:07:33.040 align:middle line:90% didn't work. 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.820 align:middle line:84% So it's still cooperative, even though 00:07:35.820 --> 00:07:38.940 align:middle line:90% it's competitive play. 00:07:38.940 --> 00:07:40.950 align:middle line:90% And, some terminology now. 00:07:40.950 --> 00:07:44.810 align:middle line:84% There's systemic cooperation, which is what I'm describing. 00:07:44.810 --> 00:07:47.880 align:middle line:84% It's the, you are agreeing that the system works. 00:07:47.880 --> 00:07:50.740 align:middle line:84% And you are agreeing how the system works. 00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:52.530 align:middle line:84% These are the ways how I'm going to 00:07:52.530 --> 00:07:52.960 align:middle line:90% interact with the system. 00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:55.810 align:middle line:90% If I'm going to be playing-- 00:07:55.810 --> 00:07:58.340 align:middle line:90% Goldeneye or [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:07:58.340 --> 00:07:59.760 align:middle line:90% on the split screen. 00:07:59.760 --> 00:08:01.140 align:middle line:90% Or Halo on the split screen. 00:08:01.140 --> 00:08:06.890 align:middle line:84% And you agree not to look at somebody else's screen. 00:08:06.890 --> 00:08:10.330 align:middle line:90% Then, that's a systemic rule. 00:08:10.330 --> 00:08:13.460 align:middle line:84% You might also decide, no, it's on the screen, I can't 00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:15.710 align:middle line:84% avoid seeing it, therefore we can all look at 00:08:15.710 --> 00:08:16.420 align:middle line:90% each others' screens. 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:17.830 align:middle line:90% That would be a systemic rule. 00:08:17.830 --> 00:08:22.700 align:middle line:84% Even though the goals are the same, let's shoot each other. 00:08:22.700 --> 00:08:25.170 align:middle line:84% And then there's clear cooperation, which is a little 00:08:25.170 --> 00:08:28.232 align:middle line:84% bit more like the games like Pandemic and Left for Dead, 00:08:28.232 --> 00:08:31.220 align:middle line:84% where you're explicitly trying to help each other in your 00:08:31.220 --> 00:08:32.690 align:middle line:90% team in a shared goal. 00:08:32.690 --> 00:08:37.669 align:middle line:84% And I'm just trying to differentiate them. 00:08:37.669 --> 00:08:42.110 align:middle line:84% Because it's useful sometimes to sort of try to figure out 00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:42.720 align:middle line:90% the differences. 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.672 align:middle line:84% There's a game that I don't think we're making you play, 00:08:45.672 --> 00:08:47.120 align:middle line:90% called The War on Terror. 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.130 align:middle line:90% That we have in the lab. 00:08:50.130 --> 00:08:54.450 align:middle line:84% And one of the things about this game is that it actually 00:08:54.450 --> 00:08:55.230 align:middle line:90% doesn't end. 00:08:55.230 --> 00:08:57.530 align:middle line:84% If you look at the rules, it seems that there are 00:08:57.530 --> 00:09:00.195 align:middle line:84% conditions for the game end, but they're really, really 00:09:00.195 --> 00:09:01.530 align:middle line:90% hard to reach. 00:09:01.530 --> 00:09:05.356 align:middle line:84% And if you're interested in seeing how the game ends, I'll 00:09:05.356 --> 00:09:07.750 align:middle line:84% be happy to pass you to Cory, and he can try to figure it 00:09:07.750 --> 00:09:09.290 align:middle line:90% out, or play it. 00:09:09.290 --> 00:09:11.006 align:middle line:84% But of course, that's the point that they're trying to 00:09:11.006 --> 00:09:11.325 align:middle line:90% make, right? 00:09:11.325 --> 00:09:13.370 align:middle line:84% It's a War on Terror, it never really ends. 00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:15.720 align:middle line:90% It'll keep going. 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:20.140 align:middle line:84% It perpetuates yourself, and it's designed to be a 00:09:20.140 --> 00:09:21.420 align:middle line:90% competitive game. 00:09:21.420 --> 00:09:24.910 align:middle line:84% Everybody tries to take down all the other states. 00:09:24.910 --> 00:09:28.300 align:middle line:84% The other nation states, by sponsoring terrorist activity, 00:09:28.300 --> 00:09:31.952 align:middle line:84% or trying to defend themselves from terrorist activity. 00:09:31.952 --> 00:09:35.068 align:middle line:84% Which means everybody's responsible for terrorism in 00:09:35.068 --> 00:09:37.360 align:middle line:90% the end, in that game. 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.310 align:middle line:84% But in the end, what you're hoping is at some point in 00:09:41.310 --> 00:09:43.853 align:middle line:84% time, the players are going to cooperate, because this game's 00:09:43.853 --> 00:09:44.680 align:middle line:90% not going to end. 00:09:44.680 --> 00:09:48.380 align:middle line:84% That's the whole point of the game. 00:09:48.380 --> 00:09:51.980 align:middle line:84% And the entire group coming to that conclusion in a shared 00:09:51.980 --> 00:09:54.790 align:middle line:84% way, is what the game designers were 00:09:54.790 --> 00:09:55.690 align:middle line:90% trying to go for. 00:09:55.690 --> 00:09:56.630 align:middle line:90% It's a funny game. 00:09:56.630 --> 00:09:59.280 align:middle line:84% Anybody who played Crunch, it was done by the same folks. 00:09:59.280 --> 00:10:04.988 align:middle line:84% But it's a little bit more of the, we have an opinion and we 00:10:04.988 --> 00:10:07.398 align:middle line:84% want you to share it, then this is a game that you 00:10:07.398 --> 00:10:09.170 align:middle line:90% actually want to try to win. 00:10:09.170 --> 00:10:10.910 align:middle line:90% It's funny. 00:10:10.910 --> 00:10:12.160 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:10:12.160 --> 00:10:21.160 align:middle line:90% 00:10:21.160 --> 00:10:25.430 align:middle line:84% So, that's some opinions about cooperation, and that is, 00:10:25.430 --> 00:10:27.620 align:middle line:84% systemic cooperation, where you're agreeing on the rules, 00:10:27.620 --> 00:10:30.500 align:middle line:84% or you agree that the system works. 00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:33.660 align:middle line:84% And that's their cooperation, where players are actually 00:10:33.660 --> 00:10:35.710 align:middle line:84% agreeing towards some sort of shared goal. 00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:39.100 align:middle line:84% And there are games where it flips between player 00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:41.220 align:middle line:84% cooperation and player competition. 00:10:41.220 --> 00:10:43.800 align:middle line:90% It's like-- 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:47.820 align:middle line:84% Castle Crashers, who's played Castle Crashers? 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:49.360 align:middle line:84% It's a great game, xBox Live arcade game. 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:53.770 align:middle line:84% You run around, it's a side scrolling game, where a little 00:10:53.770 --> 00:10:55.830 align:middle line:90% knight with a sword-- 00:10:55.830 --> 00:10:56.320 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's a sword? 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:57.970 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, it can be an axe. 00:10:57.970 --> 00:11:00.310 align:middle line:90% It can be a fish. 00:11:00.310 --> 00:11:03.178 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Some sort of bludgeoning device. 00:11:03.178 --> 00:11:05.950 align:middle line:90% Fish is awesome. 00:11:05.950 --> 00:11:08.400 align:middle line:84% And in general, if you're playing with three other 00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:10.840 align:middle line:84% people with controllers right to you on the couch, you're 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:12.970 align:middle line:84% pretty much going for the same goal. 00:11:12.970 --> 00:11:15.520 align:middle line:84% There are you four, and there are a whole bunch of baddies 00:11:15.520 --> 00:11:18.350 align:middle line:84% on screen, and you're trying to kill it all. 00:11:18.350 --> 00:11:22.000 align:middle line:84% But then, as soon as you beat the last one, the game 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.140 align:middle line:84% switches from defeat all the baddies to save the princess. 00:11:25.140 --> 00:11:26.280 align:middle line:90% And, wait a minute-- 00:11:26.280 --> 00:11:28.422 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, you've already saved the princess. 00:11:28.422 --> 00:11:32.100 align:middle line:90% It goes to get the princess. 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:33.470 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: It becomes get the princess. 00:11:33.470 --> 00:11:36.520 align:middle line:84% There's one princess, there's four knights, and it becomes a 00:11:36.520 --> 00:11:37.190 align:middle line:90% competitive game. 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:39.082 align:middle line:84% All of a sudden, everything that you were using against 00:11:39.082 --> 00:11:41.145 align:middle line:84% the baddies becomes something that 00:11:41.145 --> 00:11:43.680 align:middle line:90% you use on your teammates. 00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:47.210 align:middle line:84% And there are games that flip-flop between that. 00:11:47.210 --> 00:11:51.460 align:middle line:84% Diplomacy is a really fluid game in that sense. 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:54.260 align:middle line:84% You have to assume everybody's competitive in that game. 00:11:54.260 --> 00:11:57.600 align:middle line:84% But the only way to obtain your goals is to cooperate 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.210 align:middle line:90% occasionally. 00:11:59.210 --> 00:12:01.940 align:middle line:90% And so you can adapt. 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:03.140 align:middle line:90% All that's clear cooperation. 00:12:03.140 --> 00:12:05.030 align:middle line:90% No-one's disagreeing on rules. 00:12:05.030 --> 00:12:07.820 align:middle line:84% So that's systemic cooperation all the way through, but then 00:12:07.820 --> 00:12:09.755 align:middle line:84% there's player competition and cooperation 00:12:09.755 --> 00:12:12.940 align:middle line:90% going back and forth. 00:12:12.940 --> 00:12:17.260 align:middle line:90% So, that's cooperation. 00:12:17.260 --> 00:12:24.550 align:middle line:84% Finally, think a little bit about level playing field and 00:12:24.550 --> 00:12:26.820 align:middle line:84% what it means in your games, whether they're 00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:28.330 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:12:28.330 --> 00:12:30.500 align:middle line:84% In many of your games, especially card games, they're 00:12:30.500 --> 00:12:31.620 align:middle line:84% going to start with some sort of deal. 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:34.000 align:middle line:84% They're going to start with some sort of hand, or maybe a 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.750 align:middle line:84% drawing in some sort of systematic way 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:38.095 align:middle line:90% from a shuffled deck. 00:12:38.095 --> 00:12:41.560 align:middle line:84% That pretty much means that you're starting out with 00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:43.250 align:middle line:84% something that's effectively random. 00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:47.500 align:middle line:84% But then it could be also influenced by your knowledge 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.410 align:middle line:84% of the game, by your skill at the game. 00:12:50.410 --> 00:12:54.260 align:middle line:90% And you want to see how-- 00:12:54.260 --> 00:12:57.100 align:middle line:84% at what point, how do you want to balance it between 00:12:57.100 --> 00:13:00.180 align:middle line:84% someone's skill, familiarity with the game, 00:13:00.180 --> 00:13:02.160 align:middle line:90% against pure chance. 00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:06.980 align:middle line:84% And a level playing field means different things to a 00:13:06.980 --> 00:13:09.170 align:middle line:90% lot of different people. 00:13:09.170 --> 00:13:13.177 align:middle line:84% For some people, it may mean, no matter what skill level I 00:13:13.177 --> 00:13:14.560 align:middle line:84% am, I have a chance at winning. 00:13:14.560 --> 00:13:16.500 align:middle line:84% So you're sort of biasing towards chance. 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:21.500 align:middle line:84% For some people a level playing field is, no matter 00:13:21.500 --> 00:13:28.000 align:middle line:84% what hand I get given, there is a valid strategy. 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.090 align:middle line:84% Or the goals that get set in a way that allows 00:13:31.090 --> 00:13:31.810 align:middle line:90% me to obtain it. 00:13:31.810 --> 00:13:35.560 align:middle line:84% A lot of trick-kicking games, especially games with bidding, 00:13:35.560 --> 00:13:38.380 align:middle line:84% actually have an automatic ranking system. 00:13:38.380 --> 00:13:41.660 align:middle line:84% In various lives that you only bid a game that you 00:13:41.660 --> 00:13:44.160 align:middle line:90% think you can win. 00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:47.290 align:middle line:84% And the whole idea is, the game is to push your opponent 00:13:47.290 --> 00:13:51.790 align:middle line:84% to bid on something which they couldn't actually get. 00:13:51.790 --> 00:13:54.640 align:middle line:84% So, that's a level playing field. 00:13:54.640 --> 00:14:01.460 align:middle line:84% I can have a crappy hand, but that's not chance so much as 00:14:01.460 --> 00:14:03.730 align:middle line:84% the decisions that you're making. 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:13.680 align:middle line:84% So, what I would advocate, in this class, if 00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:14.930 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:14:14.930 --> 00:14:19.380 align:middle line:90% 00:14:19.380 --> 00:14:23.550 align:middle line:84% is, when you're trying to balance it out towards 00:14:23.550 --> 00:14:26.330 align:middle line:84% whatever your interpretation of a level playing field is 00:14:26.330 --> 00:14:31.660 align:middle line:84% going to be, try to pick decisions that push you in the 00:14:31.660 --> 00:14:34.320 align:middle line:84% direction of meaningful decisions. 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.610 align:middle line:84% Things that players can make a decision on, and can see the 00:14:37.610 --> 00:14:39.000 align:middle line:90% consequences. 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:40.050 align:middle line:84% They can understand how those consequences 00:14:40.050 --> 00:14:42.800 align:middle line:90% play out in the game. 00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:46.099 align:middle line:84% And the outcome of the overall game is going 00:14:46.099 --> 00:14:50.720 align:middle line:90% to be resolved then. 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:53.020 align:middle line:84% That is, again, not necessarily the only 00:14:53.020 --> 00:14:53.750 align:middle line:90% definition. 00:14:53.750 --> 00:14:55.430 align:middle line:84% So I want to be very very clear. 00:14:55.430 --> 00:14:58.220 align:middle line:84% What I'm asking of you here is not necessarily the only 00:14:58.220 --> 00:15:00.750 align:middle line:84% definition of a well-designed game. 00:15:00.750 --> 00:15:06.350 align:middle line:84% Because designing a game to be played from ages 3 to 90, you 00:15:06.350 --> 00:15:09.690 align:middle line:84% probably want a game where making a meaningful decision 00:15:09.690 --> 00:15:12.544 align:middle line:84% isn't going to bias the game to the point where 00:15:12.544 --> 00:15:16.360 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] people, or really smart because that's 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:19.880 align:middle line:90% just not [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:15:19.880 --> 00:15:22.110 align:middle line:90% And this particular task. 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:26.570 align:middle line:84% Try and bias it so that, in that competitive sense, you 00:15:26.570 --> 00:15:30.320 align:middle line:84% want everyone to feel like they have a chance of winning. 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.080 align:middle line:84% But I want you to bias your game towards the-- 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.350 align:middle line:84% and whether you win or lose is going to be based on the 00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:37.490 align:middle line:90% outcome of these decisions. 00:15:37.490 --> 00:15:40.358 align:middle line:84% Clearly understanding the outcome of the decision that 00:15:40.358 --> 00:15:41.100 align:middle line:90% you make in the game. 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:46.620 align:middle line:84% Not necessarily just what you wish , or what you were dealt. 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:50.220 align:middle line:90% 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:52.300 align:middle line:84% You can still use those things in your game. 00:15:52.300 --> 00:15:56.135 align:middle line:84% Sometimes it's the whole idea of the, oh my God, I hope it's 00:15:56.135 --> 00:15:59.440 align:middle line:90% the right card, aargh. 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.310 align:middle line:84% But then there's things like probability. 00:16:02.310 --> 00:16:05.640 align:middle line:84% There's, how much information are you giving to the player 00:16:05.640 --> 00:16:07.810 align:middle line:84% about what the probability that you have the right card 00:16:07.810 --> 00:16:08.410 align:middle line:90% going to be. 00:16:08.410 --> 00:16:10.400 align:middle line:84% Are you letting them look at the deck ahead of time? 00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:12.510 align:middle line:84% Are you giving them information about how many of 00:16:12.510 --> 00:16:15.220 align:middle line:84% those cards are in the deck, so that you can actually make 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:18.450 align:middle line:84% guesses on-- all right, we played through half this deck 00:16:18.450 --> 00:16:22.042 align:middle line:84% and we haven't seen any of those cards yet, that means 00:16:22.042 --> 00:16:23.410 align:middle line:84% the probability of that card showing up has now gone up. 00:16:23.410 --> 00:16:26.350 align:middle line:84% And now we come to a decision that you can make. 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:29.180 align:middle line:90% Do I draw, do I hold-- 00:16:29.180 --> 00:16:32.000 align:middle line:90% that sort of thing. 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.030 align:middle line:84% So that's my suggestion for this class. 00:16:35.030 --> 00:16:40.884 align:middle line:84% I would love to be able to see those kinds of games come out 00:16:40.884 --> 00:16:42.134 align:middle line:90% of this class. 00:16:42.134 --> 00:16:46.410 align:middle line:90% 00:16:46.410 --> 00:16:49.080 align:middle line:84% So that's all the things that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.530 align:middle line:90% 00:16:53.530 --> 00:16:58.360 align:middle line:84% So, actually, before we move on, does anyone have any 00:16:58.360 --> 00:16:59.610 align:middle line:90% questions regarding that? 00:16:59.610 --> 00:17:06.535 align:middle line:90% 00:17:06.535 --> 00:17:08.900 align:middle line:90% One point of administration. 00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:13.164 align:middle line:84% Who here needs to print on the Gambit printers? 00:17:13.164 --> 00:17:17.304 align:middle line:84% Or who here has access to other printers that you guys 00:17:17.304 --> 00:17:19.128 align:middle line:84% are fairly confident about using for your assignment? 00:17:19.128 --> 00:17:20.619 align:middle line:90% You need a printer? 00:17:20.619 --> 00:17:24.757 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, did you say that you need a printer or that you 00:17:24.757 --> 00:17:25.140 align:middle line:90% have access. 00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:25.700 align:middle line:90% Because you said both? 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:25.980 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Oh, right. 00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:29.460 align:middle line:84% So who here needs to use Gambit printers? 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:32.600 align:middle line:84% Who absolutely needs to use Gambit printers. 00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:34.698 align:middle line:84% Because we don't actually have computers set up for 00:17:34.698 --> 00:17:35.948 align:middle line:90% everybody to log in. 00:17:35.948 --> 00:17:40.846 align:middle line:90% 00:17:40.846 --> 00:17:43.552 align:middle line:84% So I would suggest not using any of the computers in this 00:17:43.552 --> 00:17:44.790 align:middle line:90% lab because [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:17:44.790 --> 00:17:48.180 align:middle line:90% lab work on it. 00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.971 align:middle line:84% So you've all got access to printers, that's awesome. 00:17:51.971 --> 00:17:53.221 align:middle line:84% I think you sent out an e-mail about card stock. 00:17:53.221 --> 00:17:55.580 align:middle line:90% 00:17:55.580 --> 00:17:58.064 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That card stock's actually out of stock. 00:17:58.064 --> 00:17:59.810 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:17:59.810 --> 00:18:01.480 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I went to order and I was like, oh, shit. 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:02.730 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:18:02.730 --> 00:18:05.430 align:middle line:90% 00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:08.140 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is there like a Staples somewhere near here? 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:09.290 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Harvard has a Staples, 00:18:09.290 --> 00:18:10.850 align:middle line:90% downtown has a staples. 00:18:10.850 --> 00:18:11.562 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: CopyTech has-- 00:18:11.562 --> 00:18:13.910 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I went to CopyTech and they said they can print 00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:17.270 align:middle line:90% and cut your cards for you. 00:18:17.270 --> 00:18:21.140 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: They have a pretty awesome card printer. 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:24.805 align:middle line:90% Their cutter is harsh, harsh. 00:18:24.805 --> 00:18:26.710 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What does that mean? 00:18:26.710 --> 00:18:28.910 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Well, first of all, it's really pointy on the 00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:31.140 align:middle line:84% corners, which is kind of cool if that's what 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:32.545 align:middle line:90% you're going for. 00:18:32.545 --> 00:18:34.300 align:middle line:90% But [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:18:34.300 --> 00:18:35.750 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Can they round it or do we have to use-- 00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:36.750 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I don't think they can. 00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:37.330 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: They can't. 00:18:37.330 --> 00:18:39.330 align:middle line:90% I have a rounder. 00:18:39.330 --> 00:18:43.010 align:middle line:84% I have a corner punch that, you have to do it four times 00:18:43.010 --> 00:18:44.570 align:middle line:90% for each card, but-- 00:18:44.570 --> 00:18:45.537 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: We'll do it. 00:18:45.537 --> 00:18:46.968 align:middle line:90% We can do it. 00:18:46.968 --> 00:18:49.480 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.720 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Just ask me and you can borrow it. 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.450 align:middle line:84% You may want to do it on some test cards before you really 00:18:54.450 --> 00:18:56.150 align:middle line:90% get a sense of how it works. 00:18:56.150 --> 00:18:58.540 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:18:58.540 --> 00:19:00.390 align:middle line:84% And I wouldn't suggest punching more than 00:19:00.390 --> 00:19:02.250 align:middle line:90% one card at a time. 00:19:02.250 --> 00:19:07.870 align:middle line:84% The other thing is, if you're printing it on a, not like 00:19:07.870 --> 00:19:09.760 align:middle line:84% CopyTech, where they obviously know what kind of paper works 00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:11.664 align:middle line:90% best with their printers. 00:19:11.664 --> 00:19:14.185 align:middle line:84% If you're printing it on something like a Laserjet, if 00:19:14.185 --> 00:19:18.280 align:middle line:84% you go to the paper manufacturer's website, a lot 00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:21.130 align:middle line:84% of them actually specifically state Laserjet compatible. 00:19:21.130 --> 00:19:23.270 align:middle line:84% And the problem is actually the width of the card. 00:19:23.270 --> 00:19:25.720 align:middle line:84% There's not the folding of the paper as it 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.170 align:middle line:90% goes through the printer. 00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:30.722 align:middle line:84% It's whether the toner will bond to the paper. 00:19:30.722 --> 00:19:33.984 align:middle line:84% Like, does the paper get hot enough, and open up 00:19:33.984 --> 00:19:35.180 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:36.900 align:middle line:84% Does the paper get hot enough for the 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:38.660 align:middle line:90% toner to actually bind. 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:40.940 align:middle line:84% And a lot of card stocks actually don't, because 00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:42.840 align:middle line:84% they're so thick that the heat doesn't transfer well. 00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:45.815 align:middle line:84% And as a result of that, after print it looks great when it 00:19:45.815 --> 00:19:47.530 align:middle line:84% comes out and it starts leaking. 00:19:47.530 --> 00:19:51.320 align:middle line:84% So, that's the problem with the card stock. 00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:54.890 align:middle line:84% Some card stocks will jam your printer, but the majority of 00:19:54.890 --> 00:19:58.940 align:middle line:84% the modern Laserjets actually deal pretty well with that. 00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:01.552 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:20:01.552 --> 00:20:02.985 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Did you want us to print on card stock for 00:20:02.985 --> 00:20:04.750 align:middle line:84% Wednesday, or was that for when it's due? 00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:06.058 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: When it's due. 00:20:06.058 --> 00:20:06.348 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 00:20:06.348 --> 00:20:07.770 align:middle line:90% So Wednesday-- 00:20:07.770 --> 00:20:09.430 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: And in fact, printing card stock for when 00:20:09.430 --> 00:20:12.640 align:middle line:90% it's due is not necessary. 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:14.740 align:middle line:90% It is much appreciated. 00:20:14.740 --> 00:20:17.336 align:middle line:84% It was a great thing for you to do for yourself, if you 00:20:17.336 --> 00:20:20.232 align:middle line:84% want to make copies for your friends or your team, that you 00:20:20.232 --> 00:20:22.490 align:middle line:84% actually want to end up playing. 00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:25.210 align:middle line:84% To be perfectly honest, if you say-- 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:29.210 align:middle line:84% if our printer wasn't working and all we could do were these 00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:34.260 align:middle line:84% regular white papers, if I also cut them in the right 00:20:34.260 --> 00:20:37.570 align:middle line:84% shape, so then we could just play the game, that's fine. 00:20:37.570 --> 00:20:41.854 align:middle line:84% We're not going to take the weight of your paper and do 00:20:41.854 --> 00:20:42.620 align:middle line:90% the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:20:42.620 --> 00:20:43.896 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] the deck first, erm. 00:20:43.896 --> 00:20:45.146 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:20:45.146 --> 00:20:50.305 align:middle line:90% 00:20:50.305 --> 00:20:53.868 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Has anyone played, what was it, High Society 00:20:53.868 --> 00:20:54.784 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:20:54.784 --> 00:20:55.242 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:20:55.242 --> 00:20:57.310 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Those are awesome. 00:20:57.310 --> 00:21:00.974 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: They were like kids' books, you know? 00:21:00.974 --> 00:21:02.224 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:21:02.224 --> 00:21:04.190 align:middle line:90% 00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:07.100 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: If anyone does have issues printing, before you 00:21:07.100 --> 00:21:09.190 align:middle line:84% jump straight into the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:21:09.190 --> 00:21:14.245 align:middle line:84% talk to Jason and I. Jason usually has room by the TV 00:21:14.245 --> 00:21:16.587 align:middle line:84% lounge, my room is just down the corridor. 00:21:16.587 --> 00:21:19.510 align:middle line:84% And we might be able to help you with that. 00:21:19.510 --> 00:21:23.681 align:middle line:84% But in general, if you've got access to other printers, go 00:21:23.681 --> 00:21:24.154 align:middle line:90% right for it. 00:21:24.154 --> 00:21:27.000 align:middle line:84% Because going through us is a bottleneck. 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.627 align:middle line:90% Again, not for Wednesday. 00:21:28.627 --> 00:21:32.610 align:middle line:84% For Wednesday just have something testable so that we 00:21:32.610 --> 00:21:35.640 align:middle line:84% can [UNINTELLIGIBLE] before the date it's due, try to 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:36.380 align:middle line:90% print something. 00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:39.100 align:middle line:84% You don't want to wait until the last minute and you don't 00:21:39.100 --> 00:21:43.230 align:middle line:84% want to suddenly realize that your paper doesn't work very 00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:44.480 align:middle line:84% well with the printer at the last minute. 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:48.290 align:middle line:90% 00:21:48.290 --> 00:21:54.782 align:middle line:84% So, today's reading was Bartle and Chapter 11, I think, of 00:21:54.782 --> 00:21:58.450 align:middle line:90% the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:21:58.450 --> 00:22:03.420 align:middle line:84% And in general, both of them are asking the same question. 00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:07.400 align:middle line:84% Which is, who are you designing your game for? 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:08.852 align:middle line:84% On the assumption that you're not designing 00:22:08.852 --> 00:22:10.210 align:middle line:90% the game for yourself. 00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:12.770 align:middle line:84% Of course, realistically, if you're going to get a job 00:22:12.770 --> 00:22:17.160 align:middle line:84% making games, the majority of the games that you're going to 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.988 align:middle line:84% design are not games for yourself, they're going to be 00:22:18.988 --> 00:22:21.720 align:middle line:84% games for some other demographic. 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:29.070 align:middle line:84% And the Bartle paper is a little bit more influential in 00:22:29.070 --> 00:22:32.330 align:middle line:84% how people think about games, because it shifted the 00:22:32.330 --> 00:22:36.760 align:middle line:84% question from, what's the age group, what's the demographic, 00:22:36.760 --> 00:22:39.340 align:middle line:84% what are people out there who are already buying 00:22:39.340 --> 00:22:42.060 align:middle line:90% games going to want? 00:22:42.060 --> 00:22:45.530 align:middle line:84% And you fit that into, what sort of things are people 00:22:45.530 --> 00:22:48.250 align:middle line:90% looking for in a game? 00:22:48.250 --> 00:22:49.650 align:middle line:84% He doesn't actually take it to the next 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:50.960 align:middle line:90% step, which is where-- 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:55.742 align:middle line:84% I think he wrote that in the 70s or late 00:22:55.742 --> 00:22:57.694 align:middle line:90% 80s, does anyone remember? 00:22:57.694 --> 00:22:58.190 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: In the 90s. 00:22:58.190 --> 00:23:00.590 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think it was in, like, 1990. 00:23:00.590 --> 00:23:01.840 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:11.140 align:middle line:90% 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:15.260 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But a lot of the ideas come 00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:16.430 align:middle line:90% from the 70s, actually. 00:23:16.430 --> 00:23:19.610 align:middle line:84% Because that's when he made the first MUD. 00:23:19.610 --> 00:23:21.070 align:middle line:90% RIchard Bartle [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:23:21.070 --> 00:23:22.340 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: What exactly is a MUD? 00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:24.430 align:middle line:84% They never actually described it. 00:23:24.430 --> 00:23:26.450 align:middle line:84% They just assumed everyone knew what a MUD was. 00:23:26.450 --> 00:23:27.870 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: MUD stands for Multi-User Dungeon. 00:23:27.870 --> 00:23:29.780 align:middle line:90% Anyone want to describe one? 00:23:29.780 --> 00:23:36.360 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's like, an online text-adventure thing, where 00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:39.800 align:middle line:84% everyone's interacting with the same 00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:41.050 align:middle line:90% text-based dungeon thing. 00:23:41.050 --> 00:23:45.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The best way to describe it is, imagine if WoW 00:23:45.040 --> 00:23:48.100 align:middle line:84% was presented entirely [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:23:48.100 --> 00:23:51.000 align:middle line:90% 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.180 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I found that kind of annoying in the text. 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:54.893 align:middle line:84% He just assumed everyone knew what a MUD was. 00:23:54.893 --> 00:23:58.060 align:middle line:84% But never actually said, this is what a MUD is. 00:23:58.060 --> 00:23:58.900 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Yeah. 00:23:58.900 --> 00:24:01.770 align:middle line:84% Because the whole sort of, reading the article, actually 00:24:01.770 --> 00:24:04.110 align:middle line:84% I believe he formatted that for a forum 00:24:04.110 --> 00:24:07.670 align:middle line:90% post for for community. 00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:09.470 align:middle line:90% So there's an assumption. 00:24:09.470 --> 00:24:13.350 align:middle line:90% But yeah, apologies for that. 00:24:13.350 --> 00:24:15.330 align:middle line:84% Actually, if you're interested-- and here he does 00:24:15.330 --> 00:24:16.620 align:middle line:90% define it right at the bottom. 00:24:16.620 --> 00:24:18.607 align:middle line:84% Which is right at the end of the article here. 00:24:18.607 --> 00:24:22.708 align:middle line:84% He talks about specifically, this is what I mean by MUD. 00:24:22.708 --> 00:24:24.873 align:middle line:84% Somewhere in the footnotes--these text 00:24:24.873 --> 00:24:28.620 align:middle line:84% adventures, text-style online games where multiple people 00:24:28.620 --> 00:24:30.300 align:middle line:90% are interacting. 00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:33.900 align:middle line:84% And if you look at the rest of the website, there's actually 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:34.860 align:middle line:84% a bunch of stuff about how MUDs work. 00:24:34.860 --> 00:24:39.200 align:middle line:84% But, for the most part, that was sort of online multiplayer 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:43.530 align:middle line:90% gaming, back when he started. 00:24:43.530 --> 00:24:46.670 align:middle line:84% He's credited for having built the first MUD. 00:24:46.670 --> 00:24:50.690 align:middle line:84% And, frankly, not all that different from 00:24:50.690 --> 00:24:53.630 align:middle line:90% MMOGs you get today. 00:24:53.630 --> 00:24:56.240 align:middle line:84% The difference being that they were all text. 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:01.050 align:middle line:84% But you still went out hunting monsters. 00:25:01.050 --> 00:25:03.270 align:middle line:84% They call them mobiles, or mobs. 00:25:03.270 --> 00:25:05.592 align:middle line:84% And in fact there's still some of that 00:25:05.592 --> 00:25:08.270 align:middle line:90% terminology going around. 00:25:08.270 --> 00:25:10.010 align:middle line:90% They drop loot. 00:25:10.010 --> 00:25:11.570 align:middle line:84% You will pick up loot and show it off. 00:25:11.570 --> 00:25:13.995 align:middle line:84% And sometimes, some games [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:25:13.995 --> 00:25:15.180 align:middle line:90% loot. 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:16.960 align:middle line:84% Most games let you exchange loot. 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.460 align:middle line:84% And then you would use your loot to go and kill other 00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:22.650 align:middle line:90% monsters and get better loot. 00:25:22.650 --> 00:25:23.540 align:middle line:84% Sometimes you'd do it with other people. 00:25:23.540 --> 00:25:26.270 align:middle line:84% Sometimes you attack other people. 00:25:26.270 --> 00:25:28.620 align:middle line:84% Sometimes you just hang around and chat and talk about things 00:25:28.620 --> 00:25:30.180 align:middle line:84% that are completely not in game, like what did I have for 00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:32.200 align:middle line:90% lunch today. 00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:33.450 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:35.670 align:middle line:90% 00:25:35.670 --> 00:25:38.620 align:middle line:84% And sometimes it will take multiple 00:25:38.620 --> 00:25:41.664 align:middle line:90% people to take a monster. 00:25:41.664 --> 00:25:43.628 align:middle line:84% And it was just handled on a how fast can you 00:25:43.628 --> 00:25:45.300 align:middle line:90% type kind of thing. 00:25:45.300 --> 00:25:48.490 align:middle line:84% Attack monster, attack monster. 00:25:48.490 --> 00:25:57.380 align:middle line:84% I think you can just hit repeat and but, the behaviors 00:25:57.380 --> 00:26:00.260 align:middle line:84% are also not all that different. 00:26:00.260 --> 00:26:08.520 align:middle line:84% And how he describes it is, a game will sight itself in a 00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:13.860 align:middle line:84% position where it is variably appealing to 00:26:13.860 --> 00:26:15.990 align:middle line:90% various kinds of players. 00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:18.110 align:middle line:84% And that's how he described it. 00:26:18.110 --> 00:26:21.100 align:middle line:84% Where game studies has kind of gone on to since then, is the 00:26:21.100 --> 00:26:25.830 align:middle line:84% realization that just because you're-- 00:26:25.830 --> 00:26:27.080 align:middle line:84% some people through all the four types that you-- 00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:31.116 align:middle line:90% 00:26:31.116 --> 00:26:32.426 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Explorer. 00:26:32.426 --> 00:26:34.716 align:middle line:90% Killer. 00:26:34.716 --> 00:26:36.210 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:38.190 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So, there are these four types of players. 00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:41.185 align:middle line:84% And just because you're an achiever in one game doesn't 00:26:41.185 --> 00:26:43.460 align:middle line:84% necessarily mean that you're going to be an achiever in 00:26:43.460 --> 00:26:43.800 align:middle line:90% another game. 00:26:43.800 --> 00:26:46.640 align:middle line:84% Different people play different games, or possibly 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.030 align:middle line:84% even different types of the same game, 00:26:48.030 --> 00:26:50.440 align:middle line:90% for different reasons. 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.620 align:middle line:84% And that's where we go back to earlier concepts that we 00:26:53.620 --> 00:26:55.450 align:middle line:90% brought up, is [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:26:55.450 --> 00:26:55.840 align:middle line:90% kinds of fun. 00:26:55.840 --> 00:26:59.170 align:middle line:84% What are people trying to get out of their game playing? 00:26:59.170 --> 00:27:02.340 align:middle line:90% So, but he was-- 00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:05.050 align:middle line:84% if you're looking at the content of any one of MUD, and 00:27:05.050 --> 00:27:07.780 align:middle line:84% a little slice of what you saw of somebody's personality, 00:27:07.780 --> 00:27:08.754 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:27:08.754 --> 00:27:12.650 align:middle line:84% and all the things that they were doing. 00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:14.260 align:middle line:84% And the kinds of things that you tended to keep doing every 00:27:14.260 --> 00:27:17.360 align:middle line:84% time you logged in, it was very easy to stereotype them 00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:19.820 align:middle line:84% into somewhere along those lines. 00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:22.954 align:middle line:84% Even he acknowledges that nobody's really all the way on 00:27:22.954 --> 00:27:25.560 align:middle line:90% one of these layers. 00:27:25.560 --> 00:27:29.502 align:middle line:84% Griefers, I think, are the words that I hear generally 00:27:29.502 --> 00:27:31.740 align:middle line:90% used for killers nowadays. 00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:33.821 align:middle line:84% But even then, that's not quite the way 00:27:33.821 --> 00:27:34.580 align:middle line:90% that he's using it. 00:27:34.580 --> 00:27:37.880 align:middle line:84% He's actually using it as somebody who's generally still 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.270 align:middle line:84% playing by the rules of the game. 00:27:40.270 --> 00:27:43.740 align:middle line:84% They are there to cause misery to other people, but they're 00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.150 align:middle line:90% not there to break the game. 00:27:46.150 --> 00:27:48.980 align:middle line:84% There is a class of people called griefers, who are 00:27:48.980 --> 00:27:51.962 align:middle line:84% deliberately trying to find ways to exploit the system, to 00:27:51.962 --> 00:27:56.550 align:middle line:84% just make the game just kind of silly. 00:27:56.550 --> 00:27:59.390 align:middle line:84% But all the other dynamics that he draws on 00:27:59.390 --> 00:28:00.320 align:middle line:90% are very much there. 00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:01.480 align:middle line:84% You get a whole bunch of socializers together. 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:05.330 align:middle line:84% People who want to do nothing but chat and have a good time, 00:28:05.330 --> 00:28:06.670 align:middle line:84% they don't really care about the game, and there's going to 00:28:06.670 --> 00:28:09.240 align:middle line:84% be a whole bunch of people going right after them, saying 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.640 align:middle line:84% these are great people to grief. 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.560 align:middle line:84% Because they are enjoying themselves so much. 00:28:15.560 --> 00:28:16.810 align:middle line:90% We could end that. 00:28:16.810 --> 00:28:19.473 align:middle line:90% 00:28:19.473 --> 00:28:24.270 align:middle line:84% Second Life gets a lot of this, because Second Life has 00:28:24.270 --> 00:28:25.640 align:middle line:84% that whole, you can do anything you want. 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.216 align:middle line:84% And socializing is one of the big things. 00:28:28.216 --> 00:28:33.110 align:middle line:84% Personalizing is one of the big things. 00:28:33.110 --> 00:28:39.380 align:middle line:84% So, do keep in mind that the way that he's talking about 00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:43.290 align:middle line:84% it, sounds like all of these different personalities are 00:28:43.290 --> 00:28:46.786 align:middle line:84% somewhat mutually exclusive when really the discussion has 00:28:46.786 --> 00:28:52.040 align:middle line:84% now come to, how do you cater to all of these different 00:28:52.040 --> 00:28:53.940 align:middle line:90% desires at any given time? 00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:56.610 align:middle line:84% I may be an achiever today, I may be an explorer tomorrow. 00:28:56.610 --> 00:29:00.040 align:middle line:84% And he even talks about explorers thinking that 00:29:00.040 --> 00:29:04.600 align:middle line:84% achievers are beginner explorers, because it's like, 00:29:04.600 --> 00:29:07.260 align:middle line:84% once you've already beaten the game, what else is there left 00:29:07.260 --> 00:29:11.858 align:middle line:84% to do but explore what else you can do? 00:29:11.858 --> 00:29:15.714 align:middle line:84% So he himself acknowledges that there's some personality 00:29:15.714 --> 00:29:19.110 align:middle line:90% transfer that can happen. 00:29:19.110 --> 00:29:22.280 align:middle line:84% But it's kind of interesting how he talks about the 00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:25.210 align:middle line:90% feedback loops of people. 00:29:25.210 --> 00:29:32.760 align:middle line:84% You'll get a whole bunch of achievers, and you get a whole 00:29:32.760 --> 00:29:34.010 align:middle line:90% bunch of socializers. 00:29:34.010 --> 00:29:39.030 align:middle line:90% 00:29:39.030 --> 00:29:41.060 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:29:41.060 --> 00:29:43.360 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] killers, and achievers-- 00:29:43.360 --> 00:29:44.660 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] you've got the competition 00:29:44.660 --> 00:29:47.340 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:29:47.340 --> 00:29:50.260 align:middle line:84% But he also makes this weird assumption that there is a 00:29:50.260 --> 00:29:52.560 align:middle line:84% finite pool of people who are going to be playing the game. 00:29:52.560 --> 00:29:59.940 align:middle line:84% Which is actually true, even in a 10-20 million player game 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:02.330 align:middle line:90% like in World of Warcraft. 00:30:02.330 --> 00:30:04.150 align:middle line:90% All those things have to be-- 00:30:04.150 --> 00:30:07.126 align:middle line:90% we don't have 20 million people 00:30:07.126 --> 00:30:09.610 align:middle line:90% logging onto one server. 00:30:09.610 --> 00:30:12.780 align:middle line:84% They say, I have [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:30:12.780 --> 00:30:14.190 align:middle line:90% or something. 00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:15.600 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:17.950 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Exactly, exactly. 00:30:17.950 --> 00:30:19.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And I'm like, once [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:30:19.470 --> 00:30:21.450 align:middle line:90% you can start [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:30:21.450 --> 00:30:24.420 align:middle line:84% that are just really big numbers. 00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:28.576 align:middle line:90% 00:30:28.576 --> 00:30:31.880 align:middle line:84% Like, 25-- it's currently 25 is the highest. 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:33.655 align:middle line:90% They used to go to 40. 00:30:33.655 --> 00:30:35.815 align:middle line:84% But yeah, and you just kill bigger monsters 00:30:35.815 --> 00:30:39.520 align:middle line:90% and get lots of loot. 00:30:39.520 --> 00:30:42.820 align:middle line:84% And then there's PvP, which you go-- 00:30:42.820 --> 00:30:45.230 align:middle line:84% the main thing right now is arenas. 00:30:45.230 --> 00:30:48.930 align:middle line:84% And you have the team of two or three or five, and you 00:30:48.930 --> 00:30:52.767 align:middle line:84% fight other players with your gear by doing battlegrounds 00:30:52.767 --> 00:30:54.240 align:middle line:90% and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.700 align:middle line:90% arena. 00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:00.820 align:middle line:90% And it's basically, WoW. 00:31:00.820 --> 00:31:01.609 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: I can't remember. 00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:03.565 align:middle line:84% Are there role-playing servers? 00:31:03.565 --> 00:31:04.054 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:31:04.054 --> 00:31:06.010 align:middle line:84% There are role-playing servers. 00:31:06.010 --> 00:31:09.759 align:middle line:84% I have actually never visited one, so I can't really talk 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:10.900 align:middle line:90% about that. 00:31:10.900 --> 00:31:12.150 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That's a lot of dancing. 00:31:12.150 --> 00:31:15.877 align:middle line:90% 00:31:15.877 --> 00:31:16.860 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:31:16.860 --> 00:31:20.090 align:middle line:84% slash dance, maybe, or your character dances. 00:31:20.090 --> 00:31:23.360 align:middle line:84% And it was those things that really is popular among 00:31:23.360 --> 00:31:28.680 align:middle line:84% socialized type players all over-- 00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:29.540 align:middle line:90% and Diablo. 00:31:29.540 --> 00:31:31.160 align:middle line:84% But it's not just [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.823 align:middle line:84% I mean, slash dance means other things now. 00:31:34.823 --> 00:31:37.264 align:middle line:90% It could mean I'm bored. 00:31:37.264 --> 00:31:40.148 align:middle line:84% It's like, I have nothing to do right now, I have to wait 00:31:40.148 --> 00:31:42.970 align:middle line:84% for this stupid thing to respawn, slash dance. 00:31:42.970 --> 00:31:46.800 align:middle line:84% It's more fun than just standing there. 00:31:46.800 --> 00:31:52.050 align:middle line:90% But there is a group in WoW. 00:31:52.050 --> 00:31:54.080 align:middle line:90% And I guess-- 00:31:54.080 --> 00:31:55.970 align:middle line:90% maybe not a group. 00:31:55.970 --> 00:32:01.384 align:middle line:84% There are folks who play World of Warcraft and they engage 00:32:01.384 --> 00:32:03.400 align:middle line:90% you to think on theory crafts. 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:09.520 align:middle line:84% Which is, how we optimize the way how you build a character. 00:32:09.520 --> 00:32:13.500 align:middle line:84% And the things that you equip a character for, to make that 00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:16.140 align:middle line:84% character really, really good at doing one or 00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:17.780 align:middle line:90% two different things. 00:32:17.780 --> 00:32:20.070 align:middle line:84% So as you're building up a character that's designed to 00:32:20.070 --> 00:32:23.230 align:middle line:84% heal, what class should they be, what race should they be, 00:32:23.230 --> 00:32:27.470 align:middle line:84% what equipment should they be getting, depending on what 00:32:27.470 --> 00:32:29.880 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] you are in the game. 00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:34.195 align:middle line:84% And they're going to try to derive as much of the math of 00:32:34.195 --> 00:32:40.800 align:middle line:84% the cause and effect in the game as they possibly can. 00:32:40.800 --> 00:32:42.050 align:middle line:84% There is actually [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:32:42.050 --> 00:32:44.500 align:middle line:90% 00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:46.120 align:middle line:90% which is-- 00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:47.370 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:32:47.370 --> 00:32:54.160 align:middle line:90% 00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:56.280 align:middle line:90% It's actually kind of funny. 00:32:56.280 --> 00:33:01.760 align:middle line:84% The Elitist Jerks' forums had one guy who just happened to 00:33:01.760 --> 00:33:07.760 align:middle line:84% write a forum post about dressing up in real life. 00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:11.648 align:middle line:84% Like, this is how you get really nice [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:33:11.648 --> 00:33:16.530 align:middle line:84% because he worked at a men's fashion place. 00:33:16.530 --> 00:33:19.608 align:middle line:84% And it it turned out that that community was really, really, 00:33:19.608 --> 00:33:22.476 align:middle line:84% really interested in learning more about that. 00:33:22.476 --> 00:33:24.320 align:middle line:84% Which is actually not all that weird. 00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:26.992 align:middle line:84% It's like, you care about what armor you get in the game. 00:33:26.992 --> 00:33:29.000 align:middle line:84% You care about what you wear in real life. 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:32.160 align:middle line:84% Especially if it might have some impact on your real life. 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:34.200 align:middle line:84% What job that you're looking for. 00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.590 align:middle line:90% OK, you know. 00:33:36.590 --> 00:33:38.930 align:middle line:84% So, I would actually put those more in the 00:33:38.930 --> 00:33:40.700 align:middle line:90% explorers part of things. 00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:42.310 align:middle line:84% Sure, they're looking to optimize. 00:33:42.310 --> 00:33:43.800 align:middle line:84% They're looking to do their best. 00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:45.990 align:middle line:84% But they're not looking to be necessarily rewarded by the 00:33:45.990 --> 00:33:46.585 align:middle line:90% game system. 00:33:46.585 --> 00:33:49.760 align:middle line:84% They're using the game system to test their ideas against. 00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:55.452 align:middle line:84% It's like, I'm looking for a better way to suck up more 00:33:55.452 --> 00:33:57.460 align:middle line:90% damage, because I'm a tank. 00:33:57.460 --> 00:34:00.110 align:middle line:84% I'm supposed to be absorbing all the damage. 00:34:00.110 --> 00:34:04.010 align:middle line:90% Or the other as they call it. 00:34:04.010 --> 00:34:08.260 align:middle line:84% Or the attentions of the characters being controlled by 00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:12.010 align:middle line:84% the computer, while the rest of my folks put out a lot of 00:34:12.010 --> 00:34:14.739 align:middle line:90% damage, can do their job. 00:34:14.739 --> 00:34:20.940 align:middle line:84% But I am not interested in what the system has deemed to 00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:24.639 align:middle line:84% be, you have absorbed tons of damage, good job. 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:26.389 align:middle line:84% I don't care what the system says. 00:34:26.389 --> 00:34:29.130 align:middle line:84% I care how the system operates, so that I could 00:34:29.130 --> 00:34:32.746 align:middle line:84% optimize it through some sort of metric that I've figured 00:34:32.746 --> 00:34:35.226 align:middle line:84% out and my friends have figured out and the community 00:34:35.226 --> 00:34:36.714 align:middle line:90% has figured out. 00:34:36.714 --> 00:34:38.512 align:middle line:84% So I want to understand the system. 00:34:38.512 --> 00:34:39.690 align:middle line:84% Again, that's what it comes down to. 00:34:39.690 --> 00:34:42.109 align:middle line:84% The metric that they're using is, how do I optimize it. 00:34:42.109 --> 00:34:45.866 align:middle line:84% But for the most part, people who engage in that kind of 00:34:45.866 --> 00:34:49.110 align:middle line:84% theory craft, it's like about this armor combined with those 00:34:49.110 --> 00:34:53.660 align:middle line:84% pants, I've proven something, those are well in the area of 00:34:53.660 --> 00:34:58.595 align:middle line:84% explorers even though their behavior seems very much, 00:34:58.595 --> 00:35:00.370 align:middle line:90% that's the best solution. 00:35:00.370 --> 00:35:05.040 align:middle line:84% Whereas achievers are very much focused on, how do I get 00:35:05.040 --> 00:35:08.812 align:middle line:84% to level-- it's like, how do I get the coolest mount. 00:35:08.812 --> 00:35:13.340 align:middle line:84% In World of Warcraft you can ride around and every once in 00:35:13.340 --> 00:35:16.380 align:middle line:84% a while, Blizzard, the company that makes it, will release 00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:17.310 align:middle line:90% some new stuff. 00:35:17.310 --> 00:35:21.540 align:middle line:84% And the achievers will say, I've got to get that. 00:35:21.540 --> 00:35:23.558 align:middle line:84% Because the space [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:35:23.558 --> 00:35:25.967 align:middle line:84% it takes a lot of effort and a lot of money to be able to get 00:35:25.967 --> 00:35:26.630 align:middle line:90% one of those things. 00:35:26.630 --> 00:35:28.922 align:middle line:84% But to be able to get it, it gives you some 00:35:28.922 --> 00:35:30.305 align:middle line:90% recognizable status. 00:35:30.305 --> 00:35:33.130 align:middle line:84% You will see someone with the limited edition of 00:35:33.130 --> 00:35:35.180 align:middle line:90% some kind of mount. 00:35:35.180 --> 00:35:38.944 align:middle line:84% And you'll know that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] is to spend a 00:35:38.944 --> 00:35:41.070 align:middle line:84% heck of a lot of time in this game and play the game really 00:35:41.070 --> 00:35:43.490 align:middle line:84% well, that's the kind of recognition 00:35:43.490 --> 00:35:44.340 align:middle line:90% they're looking for. 00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:45.535 align:middle line:84% So that's the difference between 00:35:45.535 --> 00:35:48.330 align:middle line:90% achievers and explorers. 00:35:48.330 --> 00:35:50.930 align:middle line:84% So I want to try one little activity. 00:35:50.930 --> 00:35:58.240 align:middle line:84% Which is, I've got the chart that Bartle lays out. 00:35:58.240 --> 00:35:59.540 align:middle line:90% The whole player versus-- 00:35:59.540 --> 00:36:02.330 align:middle line:90% 00:36:02.330 --> 00:36:06.920 align:middle line:84% interacting and acting, player and the world. 00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:11.530 align:middle line:84% And he uses this to describe where your game could be at 00:36:11.530 --> 00:36:13.330 align:middle line:90% any given time. 00:36:13.330 --> 00:36:19.080 align:middle line:84% If you're acting on players that your game's biased 00:36:19.080 --> 00:36:21.000 align:middle line:90% towards killers. 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.105 align:middle line:84% If you're designing your game to be more about interacting 00:36:24.105 --> 00:36:26.556 align:middle line:84% with other players, then you're somewhat biasing it 00:36:26.556 --> 00:36:27.830 align:middle line:90% towards socializers. 00:36:27.830 --> 00:36:32.060 align:middle line:84% Interacting with the world is more for the achievers. 00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:34.620 align:middle line:84% Acting on the world is more for the achievers. 00:36:34.620 --> 00:36:38.132 align:middle line:84% Given these quests, I've beaten all the quests. 00:36:38.132 --> 00:36:41.660 align:middle line:84% I have 100% of the quests complete. 00:36:41.660 --> 00:36:42.700 align:middle line:90% That's achievers. 00:36:42.700 --> 00:36:46.150 align:middle line:84% And interacting with the world is more of the explorers. 00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:49.800 align:middle line:84% It's like, what else can you do in this world? 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:51.160 align:middle line:84% There are these goals that are set, that's great. 00:36:51.160 --> 00:36:53.635 align:middle line:84% But how does this world work that I can do cool stuff. 00:36:53.635 --> 00:36:56.110 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] distinction between acting and 00:36:56.110 --> 00:37:01.060 align:middle line:84% interacting, incredibly [UNINTELLIGIBLE], I didn't 00:37:01.060 --> 00:37:04.530 align:middle line:84% really understand what he was trying to say. 00:37:04.530 --> 00:37:05.210 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: It was [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:37:05.210 --> 00:37:07.610 align:middle line:84% I think he came across those terms because 00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:10.635 align:middle line:90% they sounded cute. 00:37:10.635 --> 00:37:12.800 align:middle line:84% Acting, interacting, is like a-- 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.870 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I mean, can you interact without action? 00:37:14.870 --> 00:37:16.640 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Well, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:19.630 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What does that mean? 00:37:19.630 --> 00:37:22.750 align:middle line:84% And, like, the really classic example he gives. 00:37:22.750 --> 00:37:28.230 align:middle line:84% Like, the acting on a play is like a pure [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:37:28.230 --> 00:37:30.190 align:middle line:90% the other player fights back. 00:37:30.190 --> 00:37:33.640 align:middle line:90% There's an interaction there. 00:37:33.640 --> 00:37:33.970 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Sure. 00:37:33.970 --> 00:37:35.330 align:middle line:90% But the thing about it-- 00:37:35.330 --> 00:37:36.580 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But the difference there-- 00:37:36.580 --> 00:37:39.680 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So I believe what he means by that is that the 00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:41.436 align:middle line:84% killer is actually less interested in what the player 00:37:41.436 --> 00:37:43.610 align:middle line:90% does back to him. 00:37:43.610 --> 00:37:45.450 align:middle line:84% In some sense, they are interacting because they're 00:37:45.450 --> 00:37:48.050 align:middle line:84% trying to see what sort of response they get. 00:37:48.050 --> 00:37:50.674 align:middle line:84% It's like, I'm going to do something to this player. 00:37:50.674 --> 00:37:56.230 align:middle line:84% This player's either going to die, or fight back, or whine 00:37:56.230 --> 00:37:59.250 align:middle line:84% about the fact that I'm hitting him so much. 00:37:59.250 --> 00:38:02.650 align:middle line:84% But they're not looking for the competitive bit. 00:38:02.650 --> 00:38:06.718 align:middle line:84% They're not really interested in the, and now that person's 00:38:06.718 --> 00:38:07.702 align:middle line:84% going to turn around and attack me. 00:38:07.702 --> 00:38:11.115 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I know, but the whole point is supposed to be 00:38:11.115 --> 00:38:14.660 align:middle line:84% that killers are griefers, so they really care about how 00:38:14.660 --> 00:38:16.210 align:middle line:90% people respond to them. 00:38:16.210 --> 00:38:20.775 align:middle line:84% He says later on that one of the most annoying things you 00:38:20.775 --> 00:38:23.160 align:middle line:84% can do to a griefer is just ignore them and 00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:23.830 align:middle line:90% not rise to the bait. 00:38:23.830 --> 00:38:27.930 align:middle line:84% So interacting seems to be the crucial thing. 00:38:27.930 --> 00:38:29.230 align:middle line:90% Again, I feel like his-- 00:38:29.230 --> 00:38:30.480 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:35.680 align:middle line:90% 00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:41.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I kind of see it as, does the person care about how 00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.190 align:middle line:90% the other works, in a sense? 00:38:44.190 --> 00:38:48.590 align:middle line:84% And so it is the case that a griefer wants to 00:38:48.590 --> 00:38:50.400 align:middle line:90% get a certain reaction. 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.540 align:middle line:84% But beyond that it doesn't matter. 00:38:53.540 --> 00:38:57.920 align:middle line:84% So in the same case within the game system, I want it to do 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.390 align:middle line:84% this thing, I want it to give me points but why it did that 00:39:00.390 --> 00:39:03.440 align:middle line:84% or how the mechanic works is kind of irrelevant. 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.740 align:middle line:84% And that's how I understood it. 00:39:06.740 --> 00:39:12.060 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, in particular, with the interacting, when 00:39:12.060 --> 00:39:16.040 align:middle line:84% somebody is like trying to player kill or something, the 00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:19.300 align:middle line:84% reaction is not necessarily-- the reaction they're looking 00:39:19.300 --> 00:39:22.700 align:middle line:84% for is to piss somebody off, right? 00:39:22.700 --> 00:39:26.940 align:middle line:84% And that reaction is not necessarily part of the game. 00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:34.000 align:middle line:84% So, it is acting on them because you are taking what 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.680 align:middle line:84% the game allows you to do, and using this against a person. 00:39:36.680 --> 00:39:38.680 align:middle line:84% But you don't care about what they use in the 00:39:38.680 --> 00:39:39.630 align:middle line:90% game against you. 00:39:39.630 --> 00:39:42.750 align:middle line:84% You more care about this abstract idea. 00:39:42.750 --> 00:39:46.000 align:middle line:84% So I think the interaction is not actually part of the game. 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:46.600 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:39:46.600 --> 00:39:49.243 align:middle line:84% specifically to do with game mechanics, whereas interacting 00:39:49.243 --> 00:39:52.250 align:middle line:84% is to do with something which is-- 00:39:52.250 --> 00:39:54.980 align:middle line:84% so maybe acting is something mechanical, whereas 00:39:54.980 --> 00:39:58.380 align:middle line:84% interacting is something dynamics-related? 00:39:58.380 --> 00:39:59.310 align:middle line:90% Or? 00:39:59.310 --> 00:40:06.480 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, I see is as like, acting is sort of like a 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.000 align:middle line:84% single direction with mechanics. 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:12.400 align:middle line:84% So, for example, the mechanic there is being able to hit 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.380 align:middle line:84% somebody in the head with your [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:40:15.380 --> 00:40:19.280 align:middle line:84% Whereas interacting would be the case where you are hitting 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.710 align:middle line:84% each other on each others' heads with your swords. 00:40:22.710 --> 00:40:24.840 align:middle line:84% Which is an entirely different thing. 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:28.290 align:middle line:84% And it's more of a competitive thing rather than the, I just 00:40:28.290 --> 00:40:30.540 align:middle line:90% want to make you angry. 00:40:30.540 --> 00:40:33.110 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think the unidirectional perspective 00:40:33.110 --> 00:40:34.345 align:middle line:90% makes sense. 00:40:34.345 --> 00:40:35.436 align:middle line:84% You could think of it as going with the 00:40:35.436 --> 00:40:36.570 align:middle line:90% hitting on the head example. 00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:38.870 align:middle line:84% If I'm acting, then I care that information 00:40:38.870 --> 00:40:40.080 align:middle line:90% is flowing one way. 00:40:40.080 --> 00:40:41.970 align:middle line:90% I am dealing damage to you. 00:40:41.970 --> 00:40:45.610 align:middle line:84% If I'm interacting, I'm curious as to how that is 00:40:45.610 --> 00:40:48.483 align:middle line:84% computed and what that means for me in return. 00:40:48.483 --> 00:40:50.060 align:middle line:90% Does that make sense? 00:40:50.060 --> 00:40:51.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So like, if I'm really bad at terminology-- 00:40:51.190 --> 00:40:52.942 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:40:52.942 --> 00:40:56.692 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A bunch of other examples of things that you do 00:40:56.692 --> 00:40:59.320 align:middle line:84% to maximize interacting versus acting. 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:03.430 align:middle line:84% There might be interesting examples of things like make 00:41:03.430 --> 00:41:04.470 align:middle line:90% super [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:41:04.470 --> 00:41:06.480 align:middle line:84% And then the acting ones are like, make [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:11.880 align:middle line:90% 00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:16.950 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So, in the context of a MUD, a puzzle is often 00:41:16.950 --> 00:41:18.670 align:middle line:90% like a door. 00:41:18.670 --> 00:41:20.945 align:middle line:84% So you've got to solve this puzzle if you want to get into 00:41:20.945 --> 00:41:21.410 align:middle line:90% a new area. 00:41:21.410 --> 00:41:24.530 align:middle line:84% Because that's really the only thing-- 00:41:24.530 --> 00:41:27.034 align:middle line:90% sometimes you get your loot. 00:41:27.034 --> 00:41:34.840 align:middle line:84% And the idea behind that is, you are either privileging it 00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:39.362 align:middle line:84% to getting people to talk with each other more and socialize 00:41:39.362 --> 00:41:40.670 align:middle line:90% with each other more. 00:41:40.670 --> 00:41:42.600 align:middle line:84% Or you're privileging it to getting people to look at the 00:41:42.600 --> 00:41:46.330 align:middle line:84% world more, see more of the world and 00:41:46.330 --> 00:41:48.330 align:middle line:90% understand how it works. 00:41:48.330 --> 00:41:52.040 align:middle line:84% Then in a sense, you don't want to put too many barriers 00:41:52.040 --> 00:41:56.320 align:middle line:84% between the people who've been in for a very long time and 00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:00.460 align:middle line:84% the people who just started playing, the people who are in 00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:02.498 align:middle line:84% one area of the world and people in 00:42:02.498 --> 00:42:03.120 align:middle line:90% another area of the world. 00:42:03.120 --> 00:42:03.810 align:middle line:90% You kind of want quick flow. 00:42:03.810 --> 00:42:07.593 align:middle line:84% So in MUDs, that's one thing where the definition of 00:42:07.593 --> 00:42:09.525 align:middle line:90% puzzles is very specific. 00:42:09.525 --> 00:42:13.389 align:middle line:84% It's like, but I have to move this set of levers. 00:42:13.389 --> 00:42:14.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Another point that I've found that's really 00:42:14.390 --> 00:42:18.690 align:middle line:84% strange, because I would expect an explorer, who is 00:42:18.690 --> 00:42:22.440 align:middle line:84% supposed to be a world interacting person to really 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.430 align:middle line:84% enjoy deep puzzles, which reward them for knowing more 00:42:26.430 --> 00:42:27.840 align:middle line:90% about the world. 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:31.080 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But a problem with puzzles in MUDs is that 00:42:31.080 --> 00:42:35.180 align:middle line:84% they're usually simple solutions. 00:42:35.180 --> 00:42:38.920 align:middle line:84% So there's less pleasure to be found in a very difficult 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:40.635 align:middle line:84% puzzle, because all that told you was, you just 00:42:40.635 --> 00:42:41.530 align:middle line:90% solved this one thing. 00:42:41.530 --> 00:42:44.170 align:middle line:84% There is still some pleasure there. 00:42:44.170 --> 00:42:49.650 align:middle line:84% The interest that explorers are way more compelled by-- 00:42:49.650 --> 00:42:52.040 align:middle line:90% kind of the latent dynamics-- 00:42:52.040 --> 00:42:55.650 align:middle line:84% is understanding the interaction of how mechanics-- 00:42:55.650 --> 00:42:59.180 align:middle line:84% especially [UNINTELLIGIBLE] in a way that might not have been 00:42:59.180 --> 00:43:01.260 align:middle line:90% originally designed that way. 00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:02.303 align:middle line:84% That's what they're looking for. 00:43:02.303 --> 00:43:04.730 align:middle line:84% They're not looking for, what is the solution that was 00:43:04.730 --> 00:43:05.437 align:middle line:90% designed in the game. 00:43:05.437 --> 00:43:07.950 align:middle line:84% They're looking for, how am I going to get this game to do 00:43:07.950 --> 00:43:11.082 align:middle line:84% something that it might not have been designed to do 00:43:11.082 --> 00:43:14.940 align:middle line:84% originally, but would be cool once I figure it out. 00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:17.980 align:middle line:90% So that, unfortunately-- 00:43:17.980 --> 00:43:19.440 align:middle line:90% you are definitely right. 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.660 align:middle line:84% But that one suffers from the very specific terminology of 00:43:22.660 --> 00:43:27.070 align:middle line:84% what a puzzle is in a MUD, as opposed to the more general 00:43:27.070 --> 00:43:30.090 align:middle line:84% definition of what a puzzle is. 00:43:30.090 --> 00:43:34.630 align:middle line:84% The reason why, at least for achievers, hard puzzles are 00:43:34.630 --> 00:43:38.500 align:middle line:84% very important, because if you make a puzzle that most people 00:43:38.500 --> 00:43:41.158 align:middle line:84% aren't going to be able to get, being able to get that 00:43:41.158 --> 00:43:43.910 align:middle line:84% puzzle gives you some [UNINTELLIGIBLE] status. 00:43:43.910 --> 00:43:46.290 align:middle line:84% Usually some sort of visible reward, even. 00:43:46.290 --> 00:43:50.090 align:middle line:84% You are now in a location not everybody else can get to, or 00:43:50.090 --> 00:43:52.251 align:middle line:84% you now have a piece of equipment 00:43:52.251 --> 00:43:53.970 align:middle line:90% that no-one else has. 00:43:53.970 --> 00:44:01.390 align:middle line:84% Whereas explorers, they will probably have an advantage in 00:44:01.390 --> 00:44:03.180 align:middle line:90% solving difficult puzzles. 00:44:03.180 --> 00:44:05.640 align:middle line:84% But they're not necessarily the sort of thing that makes 00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:08.840 align:middle line:84% them want to interact with the world. 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:12.110 align:middle line:84% Lots of the mechanics that interact with each other in 00:44:12.110 --> 00:44:14.680 align:middle line:84% and new and interesting ways, are more likely to be 00:44:14.680 --> 00:44:15.930 align:middle line:90% interesting to an explorer. 00:44:15.930 --> 00:44:18.580 align:middle line:90% 00:44:18.580 --> 00:44:21.446 align:middle line:84% But you're right, acting and interacting are crappy, crappy 00:44:21.446 --> 00:44:24.620 align:middle line:90% terminology sort of thing. 00:44:24.620 --> 00:44:27.782 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Are you talking about how griefers are more 00:44:27.782 --> 00:44:31.170 align:middle line:84% like actors, where they just try to get people to interact 00:44:31.170 --> 00:44:34.390 align:middle line:84% with them, or try to get people to get annoyed by them. 00:44:34.390 --> 00:44:36.780 align:middle line:84% I've definitely seen, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:37.490 align:middle line:90% game design. 00:44:37.490 --> 00:44:39.720 align:middle line:90% But [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:44:39.720 --> 00:44:40.400 align:middle line:90% 300. 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:44.580 align:middle line:84% Where we watched a video of griefers in Team Fortress 2, 00:44:44.580 --> 00:44:49.410 align:middle line:84% where there's a certain door where, if they stand in a 00:44:49.410 --> 00:44:50.560 align:middle line:90% certain spot, it won't open. 00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:52.610 align:middle line:84% So this person started making everyone interact. 00:44:52.610 --> 00:44:54.700 align:middle line:84% OK, we're going to play a game today. 00:44:54.700 --> 00:44:56.050 align:middle line:84% If you want to leave, you have to answer correctly. 00:44:56.050 --> 00:44:57.460 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Yeah, what is the capital of-- 00:44:57.460 --> 00:45:01.280 align:middle line:90% 00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:02.930 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That I see as more of an explorer things. 00:45:02.930 --> 00:45:05.855 align:middle line:84% Like, you bounce some weird combination of the interaction 00:45:05.855 --> 00:45:09.320 align:middle line:84% with the mechanics that allows you to do something new, which 00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:12.783 align:middle line:84% is turn Team Fortress 2 into a game show. 00:45:12.783 --> 00:45:14.110 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It was pretty funny. 00:45:14.110 --> 00:45:16.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But people who can't play. 00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:18.172 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Griefers and explorers are a combination of 00:45:18.172 --> 00:45:21.952 align:middle line:84% bottle types, if you're going to be a successful griefer. 00:45:21.952 --> 00:45:26.170 align:middle line:90% 00:45:26.170 --> 00:45:28.460 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: And that's absolutely true. 00:45:28.460 --> 00:45:30.740 align:middle line:84% If your personality's oriented one way, you may have to 00:45:30.740 --> 00:45:33.864 align:middle line:84% engage with some other behaviors in order to be able 00:45:33.864 --> 00:45:37.970 align:middle line:84% to maximize that core behavior they're looking for. 00:45:37.970 --> 00:45:43.385 align:middle line:84% So there are people who are looking at exploits and trying 00:45:43.385 --> 00:45:45.410 align:middle line:84% to understand how the world works so they can cause 00:45:45.410 --> 00:45:48.970 align:middle line:84% maximum damage and maximum grief to other people. 00:45:48.970 --> 00:45:51.090 align:middle line:84% That's definitely one good way of doing it. 00:45:51.090 --> 00:45:54.270 align:middle line:84% But what I find is that as soon as they find it, they are 00:45:54.270 --> 00:45:58.350 align:middle line:84% not interested in finding more ways until that 00:45:58.350 --> 00:45:59.600 align:middle line:90% first way gets boring. 00:45:59.600 --> 00:46:02.160 align:middle line:90% 00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:04.110 align:middle line:90% Or gets fixed. 00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:07.715 align:middle line:84% So, people are going to say, there's a lot of teleporting 00:46:07.715 --> 00:46:10.110 align:middle line:84% you directly in front of a turret, stuff like that. 00:46:10.110 --> 00:46:12.815 align:middle line:84% Teleporting your own teammates in front of a turret, that 00:46:12.815 --> 00:46:13.680 align:middle line:90% sort of thing. 00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:14.930 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:46:14.930 --> 00:46:16.826 align:middle line:90% 00:46:16.826 --> 00:46:19.644 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I don't understand. 00:46:19.644 --> 00:46:20.956 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: You don't understand? 00:46:20.956 --> 00:46:21.630 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:46:21.630 --> 00:46:22.180 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: It's fun. 00:46:22.180 --> 00:46:22.940 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Griefers. 00:46:22.940 --> 00:46:26.250 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No, it's not. 00:46:26.250 --> 00:46:28.590 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So, I'm going to mess with you. 00:46:28.590 --> 00:46:30.750 align:middle line:90% Just for the hell of it. 00:46:30.750 --> 00:46:34.020 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I remember in Sims Online, an effective way to 00:46:34.020 --> 00:46:37.460 align:middle line:84% grief would be to organize a band of people and arrive on 00:46:37.460 --> 00:46:39.210 align:middle line:90% that property. 00:46:39.210 --> 00:46:42.580 align:middle line:84% Since there was a population limit of 12 people or 00:46:42.580 --> 00:46:44.610 align:middle line:90% something on any given lot. 00:46:44.610 --> 00:46:47.740 align:middle line:84% In that lot, was a business that required a lot of people 00:46:47.740 --> 00:46:48.460 align:middle line:90% to come through. 00:46:48.460 --> 00:46:50.220 align:middle line:84% And then you just had 12 of your people 00:46:50.220 --> 00:46:52.220 align:middle line:90% show up and mill around. 00:46:52.220 --> 00:46:53.660 align:middle line:90% And say a lot of profanities. 00:46:53.660 --> 00:46:56.323 align:middle line:84% You could tag the place and lock it up and no-one else 00:46:56.323 --> 00:46:58.078 align:middle line:84% could go there and visit it, sometimes including owners and 00:46:58.078 --> 00:46:58.360 align:middle line:90% stuff like that. 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:00.475 align:middle line:90% It was very frustrating. 00:47:00.475 --> 00:47:04.430 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: In fact, some of the behavior they did got 00:47:04.430 --> 00:47:06.057 align:middle line:90% towards organized crime level. 00:47:06.057 --> 00:47:11.145 align:middle line:84% Actually, I mean it wasn't real crime, it was virtual. 00:47:11.145 --> 00:47:14.290 align:middle line:84% But there are actually a good number of articles about the 00:47:14.290 --> 00:47:16.240 align:middle line:90% Sims Online mafia. 00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:21.100 align:middle line:84% Because that game had so much built in for-- 00:47:21.100 --> 00:47:23.140 align:middle line:90% actually for socializers-- 00:47:23.140 --> 00:47:25.550 align:middle line:84% to be able to communicate, express themselves. 00:47:25.550 --> 00:47:28.000 align:middle line:84% I mean if you played the original Sims, there's a whole 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.372 align:middle line:84% range of different expressive things that you can do to 00:47:30.372 --> 00:47:33.810 align:middle line:84% communicate how you're feeling and to be able 00:47:33.810 --> 00:47:34.780 align:middle line:90% to chat with people. 00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:38.320 align:middle line:84% And someone, I think it might have been Maxis itself, 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.000 align:middle line:90% actually charted out the web of 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.740 align:middle line:90% influence of all the players. 00:47:41.740 --> 00:47:46.670 align:middle line:84% And there was one alpha player who was in charge of 00:47:46.670 --> 00:47:49.240 align:middle line:90% everything. 00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:55.010 align:middle line:84% And if she decided that this person wasn't wanted, she 00:47:55.010 --> 00:47:58.750 align:middle line:84% didn't want, spending too much time [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:47:58.750 --> 00:48:02.740 align:middle line:84% because of how it pissed her off or piss one of her friends 00:48:02.740 --> 00:48:05.080 align:middle line:84% off or something, she'd organize something like that. 00:48:05.080 --> 00:48:06.460 align:middle line:90% Effectively. 00:48:06.460 --> 00:48:09.320 align:middle line:90% It was called the Sims mafia. 00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:11.025 align:middle line:84% and you get that [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:48:11.025 --> 00:48:15.780 align:middle line:90% 00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:18.520 align:middle line:84% And it's kind of interesting to see how different worlds 00:48:18.520 --> 00:48:19.918 align:middle line:90% respond to that. 00:48:19.918 --> 00:48:22.980 align:middle line:84% Even though in [UNINTELLIGIBLE] which is-- 00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:26.640 align:middle line:84% actually, one thing I'd like to do is, I'd like to throw 00:48:26.640 --> 00:48:29.900 align:middle line:84% different games up on that chart. 00:48:29.900 --> 00:48:36.060 align:middle line:84% So I am looking mostly at multiplayer games. 00:48:36.060 --> 00:48:39.470 align:middle line:84% Preferably online multiplayer games. 00:48:39.470 --> 00:48:42.200 align:middle line:84% But, and I don't know all the games that are out there. 00:48:42.200 --> 00:48:44.440 align:middle line:84% So, I'd like people to call-out games. 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.070 align:middle line:84% And tell me roughly what I should put up. 00:48:47.070 --> 00:48:50.637 align:middle line:84% If you disagree, then by all means put up your hand and 00:48:50.637 --> 00:48:52.700 align:middle line:84% suggest that it should be moved. 00:48:52.700 --> 00:48:55.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Minecraft should go definitely toward world 00:48:55.390 --> 00:48:58.394 align:middle line:90% interaction andexplorer type. 00:48:58.394 --> 00:48:59.795 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Like, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:48:59.795 --> 00:49:03.070 align:middle line:90% far, far. 00:49:03.070 --> 00:49:03.910 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So what is Minecraft? 00:49:03.910 --> 00:49:07.093 align:middle line:84% I've heard of it, I just don't know what exactly it's about. 00:49:07.093 --> 00:49:08.837 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You basically go around mining things and 00:49:08.837 --> 00:49:11.460 align:middle line:84% creating objects, and you can create your own worlds. 00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:13.080 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: So it's like-- 00:49:13.080 --> 00:49:14.240 align:middle line:90% I guess? 00:49:14.240 --> 00:49:17.530 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: EVE is definitely world interacting as well. 00:49:17.530 --> 00:49:18.050 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:20.840 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So that's same as EVE. 00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:22.985 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I would say EVE is also player to player 00:49:22.985 --> 00:49:24.206 align:middle line:90% interacting. 00:49:24.206 --> 00:49:25.345 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:49:25.345 --> 00:49:27.910 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'd see it as in the middle, then. 00:49:27.910 --> 00:49:30.000 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In EVE you have to form corporations with bunches 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:33.450 align:middle line:84% of people in order to do anything. 00:49:33.450 --> 00:49:34.440 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: That's true. 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:39.403 align:middle line:84% You have to be really good in your social skills, actually. 00:49:39.403 --> 00:49:40.401 align:middle line:84% It's one of the games that's most ruthlessly 00:49:40.401 --> 00:49:41.651 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:49:41.651 --> 00:49:43.730 align:middle line:90% 00:49:43.730 --> 00:49:44.050 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:49:44.050 --> 00:49:46.110 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If you interact with the people 00:49:46.110 --> 00:49:47.340 align:middle line:90% and the world a lot. 00:49:47.340 --> 00:49:50.800 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think it's more strongly player attracting and 00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:53.080 align:middle line:84% is world attracting than most games. 00:49:53.080 --> 00:49:54.330 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: You cannot [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:49:54.330 --> 00:49:57.360 align:middle line:90% 00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:01.770 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But there's also a huge amount of achievement and 00:50:01.770 --> 00:50:03.700 align:middle line:84% player versus player conflict in this kind of stuff. 00:50:03.700 --> 00:50:04.776 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:50:04.776 --> 00:50:08.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You can die far down the interacting scale. 00:50:08.190 --> 00:50:10.650 align:middle line:84% I mean, consider things in Second Life instead. 00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:14.560 align:middle line:84% Which would be way further down the interacting end of 00:50:14.560 --> 00:50:18.218 align:middle line:84% the spectrum than EVE Online, surely. 00:50:18.218 --> 00:50:20.906 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:50:20.906 --> 00:50:22.180 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Assuming that [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:50:22.180 --> 00:50:23.215 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'm not sure it's hacking. 00:50:23.215 --> 00:50:25.080 align:middle line:84% Like, PvP is the opposite of [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:50:25.080 --> 00:50:26.606 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I mean it's not-- 00:50:26.606 --> 00:50:28.240 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think it's definitely player interaction 00:50:28.240 --> 00:50:30.220 align:middle line:90% more than player action. 00:50:30.220 --> 00:50:32.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, I believe it's interaction. 00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:33.950 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Something like having PvP tournaments, I 00:50:33.950 --> 00:50:36.690 align:middle line:84% think, would be definitely a lot of interaction. 00:50:36.690 --> 00:50:37.100 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:50:37.100 --> 00:50:40.570 align:middle line:84% I think that's the distinction between griefing and like 00:50:40.570 --> 00:50:42.075 align:middle line:90% people fighting each other. 00:50:42.075 --> 00:50:43.740 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Griefing can be an [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:50:43.740 --> 00:50:47.550 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: What I got from this article is that acting is 00:50:47.550 --> 00:50:50.013 align:middle line:84% like, I go and kill someone and ha, I killed 00:50:50.013 --> 00:50:50.620 align:middle line:90% them and that's it. 00:50:50.620 --> 00:50:52.475 align:middle line:84% Or I go through the world, it's like, I killed a monster, 00:50:52.475 --> 00:50:53.190 align:middle line:90% I killed a monster. 00:50:53.190 --> 00:50:54.260 align:middle line:90% And you just have a goal. 00:50:54.260 --> 00:50:55.480 align:middle line:84% If you want to get the goal instead of 00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:58.210 align:middle line:90% diverting from your goal. 00:50:58.210 --> 00:50:58.800 align:middle line:90% So, I don't know. 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:02.710 align:middle line:84% I definitely think griefing can be hugely interactive. 00:51:02.710 --> 00:51:04.491 align:middle line:84% But there could be a whole bunch of-- 00:51:04.491 --> 00:51:08.210 align:middle line:84% in EVE if you infiltrate someone's company and you-- 00:51:08.210 --> 00:51:10.310 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Steal ten thousand dollars' worth of their money. 00:51:10.310 --> 00:51:10.660 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Exactly. 00:51:10.660 --> 00:51:13.520 align:middle line:84% That's hugely interactive griefing. 00:51:13.520 --> 00:51:15.280 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I don't think that's griefing. 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:16.500 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Consider Team Fortress, right. 00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:18.410 align:middle line:84% There's Team Fortress player interaction. 00:51:18.410 --> 00:51:21.910 align:middle line:84% Because that means it's a socializer game. 00:51:21.910 --> 00:51:24.020 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I personally do not think Team Fortress falls 00:51:24.020 --> 00:51:27.850 align:middle line:84% under player interacting with team. 00:51:27.850 --> 00:51:29.240 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:51:29.240 --> 00:51:32.121 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But Left for Dead is. 00:51:32.121 --> 00:51:35.050 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:51:35.050 --> 00:51:35.940 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's definitely interaction happening-- 00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:36.340 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:38.482 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'd say probably more-- it depends on what 00:51:38.482 --> 00:51:38.880 align:middle line:90% you're doing 00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:41.600 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:51:41.600 --> 00:51:43.170 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So with Left for Dead you can play-- you're 00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:46.160 align:middle line:84% interacting, but then you're also online and you can go 00:51:46.160 --> 00:51:48.840 align:middle line:84% against other players who are actually the 00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:50.983 align:middle line:90% zombies, against you. 00:51:50.983 --> 00:51:51.406 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Right. 00:51:51.406 --> 00:51:55.370 align:middle line:84% So let's talk about the basic [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:51:55.370 --> 00:52:02.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the basic, most common mode is going to be 00:52:02.430 --> 00:52:04.370 align:middle line:84% four players playing cooperatively 00:52:04.370 --> 00:52:07.440 align:middle line:90% against the game world. 00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.860 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That's just interacting with the world. 00:52:09.860 --> 00:52:17.790 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And there is a lot of interaction that goes on 00:52:17.790 --> 00:52:20.808 align:middle line:84% between players, because you cannot basically survive 00:52:20.808 --> 00:52:22.640 align:middle line:84% unless you get each others' backs. 00:52:22.640 --> 00:52:24.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So I would say it's-- 00:52:24.080 --> 00:52:26.440 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And there's built-in functions 00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:27.410 align:middle line:90% to help other people. 00:52:27.410 --> 00:52:29.860 align:middle line:84% So someone might get back up on a ledge and he'll be 00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:31.130 align:middle line:84% holding on and you have to pull him back up. 00:52:31.130 --> 00:52:31.410 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Or smokers. 00:52:31.410 --> 00:52:34.730 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: At the same time, there's also an intelligent 00:52:34.730 --> 00:52:38.830 align:middle line:84% engine that plans that level for you and places zombies 00:52:38.830 --> 00:52:43.490 align:middle line:84% specifically to maintain you in a state of nervousness. 00:52:43.490 --> 00:52:45.830 align:middle line:84% And so it's different every single time you play. 00:52:45.830 --> 00:52:49.230 align:middle line:84% So those balance out and probably place it somewhere in 00:52:49.230 --> 00:52:49.590 align:middle line:90% the middle. 00:52:49.590 --> 00:52:52.501 align:middle line:84% Maybe a little bit more player biased than world biased, 00:52:52.501 --> 00:52:55.500 align:middle line:84% because you really have to stick together. 00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:58.250 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So, it's weird because it's almost like, you 00:52:58.250 --> 00:52:59.870 align:middle line:90% want to have like a plane. 00:52:59.870 --> 00:53:01.120 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:53:01.120 --> 00:53:03.725 align:middle line:90% 00:53:03.725 --> 00:53:05.460 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think the big problem with this sort of 00:53:05.460 --> 00:53:08.650 align:middle line:84% graph is that you can't really necessarily separate games 00:53:08.650 --> 00:53:11.570 align:middle line:90% into one of these quadrants. 00:53:11.570 --> 00:53:12.820 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:53:12.820 --> 00:53:15.146 align:middle line:90% 00:53:15.146 --> 00:53:16.760 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: And that is actually also-- 00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:18.240 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:20.450 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It might be a little more useful to actually draw 00:53:20.450 --> 00:53:25.090 align:middle line:84% areas within the graph to represent a game, I guess. 00:53:25.090 --> 00:53:29.230 align:middle line:84% Draw the area that encompasses all the pieces the game 00:53:29.230 --> 00:53:30.490 align:middle line:90% represents. 00:53:30.490 --> 00:53:31.740 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:53:31.740 --> 00:53:34.756 align:middle line:90% 00:53:34.756 --> 00:53:39.560 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Like Halo co-op and Halo multiplayer, and player 00:53:39.560 --> 00:53:40.810 align:middle line:90% versus player. 00:53:40.810 --> 00:53:43.560 align:middle line:90% 00:53:43.560 --> 00:53:47.075 align:middle line:84% That will probably be a little refinement, if I create some 00:53:47.075 --> 00:53:50.160 align:middle line:84% sort of scatter chart or Venn diagram. 00:53:50.160 --> 00:53:51.540 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Because I could definitely see there being a 00:53:51.540 --> 00:53:54.450 align:middle line:84% game where there's a lot of acting on the world and 00:53:54.450 --> 00:53:55.760 align:middle line:90% interacting with players. 00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:58.610 align:middle line:84% And if you're just separating these into distinct points, 00:53:58.610 --> 00:54:01.400 align:middle line:84% that isn't possible with this graph. 00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:03.810 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So that's another problem, is the assumption 00:54:03.810 --> 00:54:08.980 align:middle line:84% that acting and interacting are-- 00:54:08.980 --> 00:54:10.235 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Mutually exclusive? 00:54:10.235 --> 00:54:11.720 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: They're mutually opposite. 00:54:11.720 --> 00:54:12.970 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:54:12.970 --> 00:54:16.670 align:middle line:90% 00:54:16.670 --> 00:54:18.318 align:middle line:84% Do people generally accept this? 00:54:18.318 --> 00:54:18.766 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No, no. 00:54:18.766 --> 00:54:20.900 align:middle line:84% They do less acting than interacting. 00:54:20.900 --> 00:54:23.610 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If you just warp space, then you can have 00:54:23.610 --> 00:54:24.000 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:25.250 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:54:25.250 --> 00:54:27.745 align:middle line:90% 00:54:27.745 --> 00:54:30.655 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think if you had different values for player 00:54:30.655 --> 00:54:32.110 align:middle line:84% world interacting and acting would 00:54:32.110 --> 00:54:34.540 align:middle line:90% necessarily be connected. 00:54:34.540 --> 00:54:38.661 align:middle line:84% I think EVE definitely in world is very high, and in 00:54:38.661 --> 00:54:40.736 align:middle line:90% player is very high. 00:54:40.736 --> 00:54:43.050 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: World very high, player very high. 00:54:43.050 --> 00:54:45.740 align:middle line:84% But I mean, player is interacting and world is 00:54:45.740 --> 00:54:46.650 align:middle line:90% acting on the world. 00:54:46.650 --> 00:54:48.820 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: On the world still. 00:54:48.820 --> 00:54:49.870 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:54:49.870 --> 00:54:52.210 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: I mean, because-- 00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:55.100 align:middle line:84% you're exploring the world spatially a lot. 00:54:55.100 --> 00:54:58.250 align:middle line:84% Are you exploring the systems of the world a lot? 00:54:58.250 --> 00:55:00.571 align:middle line:84% Or are you really exploring the systems set up by people? 00:55:00.571 --> 00:55:02.860 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That's true. 00:55:02.860 --> 00:55:07.930 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: The nice thing about things like EVE Online-- 00:55:07.930 --> 00:55:08.660 align:middle line:90% also [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:55:08.660 --> 00:55:13.958 align:middle line:84% EVE Online [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game basically, where you 00:55:13.958 --> 00:55:15.260 align:middle line:90% start off as a captain. 00:55:15.260 --> 00:55:16.700 align:middle line:84% Correct me if I'm wrong with this. 00:55:16.700 --> 00:55:19.354 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's a super-sandbox game. 00:55:19.354 --> 00:55:22.198 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But for the most part, you're 00:55:22.198 --> 00:55:24.094 align:middle line:90% traveling in space. 00:55:24.094 --> 00:55:26.830 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Can you get out of your ship and walk on foot? 00:55:26.830 --> 00:55:27.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Have they added that, because I know they 00:55:27.470 --> 00:55:30.000 align:middle line:84% wanted to add an expansion where you could actually walk 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:31.140 align:middle line:90% on planets. 00:55:31.140 --> 00:55:32.950 align:middle line:84% Last time I heard, they hadn't. 00:55:32.950 --> 00:55:34.220 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Last I heard they hadn't. 00:55:34.220 --> 00:55:37.370 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Dust 66 or something like that. 00:55:37.370 --> 00:55:37.895 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:55:37.895 --> 00:55:40.340 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's a separate game. 00:55:40.340 --> 00:55:42.560 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: No, you're traveling through space. 00:55:42.560 --> 00:55:45.030 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:55:45.030 --> 00:55:48.895 align:middle line:84% But the whole idea is that it's all built around this 00:55:48.895 --> 00:55:50.875 align:middle line:84% economy, where [UNINTELLIGIBLE] mining, 00:55:50.875 --> 00:55:52.990 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:55:52.990 --> 00:55:53.285 align:middle line:90% cash. 00:55:53.285 --> 00:55:57.110 align:middle line:84% But the real power in the game comes when players start to 00:55:57.110 --> 00:55:59.040 align:middle line:90% ally with each other. 00:55:59.040 --> 00:56:01.980 align:middle line:84% Form armadas, form trade groups. 00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:06.880 align:middle line:84% Form areas that you can patrol and control. 00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:09.325 align:middle line:84% And areas where you want to agree that if you don't get 00:56:09.325 --> 00:56:13.689 align:middle line:84% along with the people who are in control of this space, you 00:56:13.689 --> 00:56:14.516 align:middle line:84% will die when you fly in there. 00:56:14.516 --> 00:56:18.484 align:middle line:84% And the only thing that's making that happen are other 00:56:18.484 --> 00:56:20.964 align:middle line:84% players deciding that this social contract is 00:56:20.964 --> 00:56:21.460 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:56:21.460 --> 00:56:24.436 align:middle line:90% So it's pretty damn amazing. 00:56:24.436 --> 00:56:27.466 align:middle line:84% What some folks were talking about earlier was a big story 00:56:27.466 --> 00:56:30.680 align:middle line:84% about how, basically, one person got into a very, very 00:56:30.680 --> 00:56:33.755 align:middle line:84% powerful position in one of these clans. 00:56:33.755 --> 00:56:35.540 align:middle line:90% And decided to defect. 00:56:35.540 --> 00:56:42.360 align:middle line:84% Take a majority of one clan's financial resources with him. 00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:46.090 align:middle line:84% And-- remember, this is a fairly modern massive 00:56:46.090 --> 00:56:47.330 align:middle line:90% multiplayer online game. 00:56:47.330 --> 00:56:50.370 align:middle line:84% In-game assets can now be traded for real money. 00:56:50.370 --> 00:56:51.350 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's illegal so that-- 00:56:51.350 --> 00:56:52.000 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: It's illegal. 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:52.880 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Like, in-game. 00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:55.430 align:middle line:84% So you can get your account banned. 00:56:55.430 --> 00:56:59.000 align:middle line:84% So what happened, if I'm talking about the one that 00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:00.150 align:middle line:90% you're talking about. 00:57:00.150 --> 00:57:03.080 align:middle line:84% Someone got to a really powerful place in 00:57:03.080 --> 00:57:04.110 align:middle line:90% this banking clan. 00:57:04.110 --> 00:57:06.400 align:middle line:84% And then took all of their assets and 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:07.510 align:middle line:90% traded it for real money. 00:57:07.510 --> 00:57:11.130 align:middle line:84% So he got $10,000 by selling it off. 00:57:11.130 --> 00:57:13.070 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:57:13.070 --> 00:57:16.326 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: One was a guy who infiltrated the clan 00:57:16.326 --> 00:57:17.763 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] that much money. 00:57:17.763 --> 00:57:20.300 align:middle line:84% One was like a parent who was going into financial trouble 00:57:20.300 --> 00:57:24.285 align:middle line:84% and held a fifth of the assets of the major bank, and cashed 00:57:24.285 --> 00:57:28.575 align:middle line:84% it in for $6,000 to help pay off part of his house and his 00:57:28.575 --> 00:57:29.988 align:middle line:90% kids' medical bills. 00:57:29.988 --> 00:57:32.350 align:middle line:84% And then posted an apology on the board and quit the game. 00:57:32.350 --> 00:57:34.360 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I thought he got banned from the game. 00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:35.620 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: He was banned from the game, but he 00:57:35.620 --> 00:57:38.494 align:middle line:90% also quit the game. 00:57:38.494 --> 00:57:40.949 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:57:40.949 --> 00:57:42.225 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: He was like, I'm sorry, everybody, but this is 00:57:42.225 --> 00:57:44.295 align:middle line:90% kind of important. 00:57:44.295 --> 00:57:46.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The amazing one was the guy who actually 00:57:46.510 --> 00:57:51.170 align:middle line:84% infiltrated the company and just took it down as a 00:57:51.170 --> 00:57:52.720 align:middle line:90% years-long operation-- 00:57:52.720 --> 00:57:53.328 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] thought he was a 00:57:53.328 --> 00:57:54.070 align:middle line:90% friend and all that. 00:57:54.070 --> 00:57:55.550 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:57:55.550 --> 00:57:57.870 align:middle line:84% Trying to get in and then managed to take down this 00:57:57.870 --> 00:58:00.060 align:middle line:90% gigantic in-game corporation. 00:58:00.060 --> 00:58:01.318 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: How many active players are 00:58:01.318 --> 00:58:02.892 align:middle line:90% there on EVE Online? 00:58:02.892 --> 00:58:04.620 align:middle line:90% A hundred thousand? 00:58:04.620 --> 00:58:04.846 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No. 00:58:04.846 --> 00:58:07.400 align:middle line:84% I feel like the active players are-- 00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:07.990 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:58:07.990 --> 00:58:11.230 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: At any moment? 00:58:11.230 --> 00:58:14.960 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: No, I mean active current players who have 00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:16.720 align:middle line:90% active accounts. 00:58:16.720 --> 00:58:18.070 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do they have new players 00:58:18.070 --> 00:58:19.100 align:middle line:90% arriving regularly, or-- 00:58:19.100 --> 00:58:20.360 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Occasionally. 00:58:20.360 --> 00:58:21.926 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They don't have a game that's been-- 00:58:21.926 --> 00:58:24.625 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:58:24.625 --> 00:58:25.460 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's like a ridiculous 00:58:25.460 --> 00:58:26.870 align:middle line:90% learning curve, yeah. 00:58:26.870 --> 00:58:29.220 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's like four months or something. 00:58:29.220 --> 00:58:31.186 align:middle line:90% It's insane. 00:58:31.186 --> 00:58:33.080 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But the interesting thing about the particular 00:58:33.080 --> 00:58:36.278 align:middle line:84% case where someone infiltrated, took all the 00:58:36.278 --> 00:58:41.710 align:middle line:84% money and basically decimated this clan deliberately, was 00:58:41.710 --> 00:58:44.540 align:middle line:84% that that person [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.790 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:58:45.790 --> 00:58:47.360 align:middle line:90% 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:48.960 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The most recent one that I read about, 00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.810 align:middle line:84% theoretically had in the tens of thousands of US dollars of 00:58:51.810 --> 00:58:54.910 align:middle line:84% assets in the game and did not cash in any of it for real 00:58:54.910 --> 00:58:57.385 align:middle line:84% money because there is no authorized mechanism. 00:58:57.385 --> 00:59:00.050 align:middle line:84% And the article that I read, basically, the end note was, 00:59:00.050 --> 00:59:01.170 align:middle line:84% no-one knows what he can do with it. 00:59:01.170 --> 00:59:05.420 align:middle line:84% He's technically rich but there's no legal mechanism 00:59:05.420 --> 00:59:07.330 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:59:07.330 --> 00:59:09.245 align:middle line:84% I don't think he got banned at all because-- 00:59:09.245 --> 00:59:10.495 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Its part of the game. 00:59:10.495 --> 00:59:12.890 align:middle line:90% 00:59:12.890 --> 00:59:15.740 align:middle line:84% At least for the definition of EVE. 00:59:15.740 --> 00:59:19.790 align:middle line:84% Stories like that tend to have earned its 00:59:19.790 --> 00:59:20.470 align:middle line:90% reputation in a way. 00:59:20.470 --> 00:59:23.820 align:middle line:90% This is lawless in space. 00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:27.315 align:middle line:84% We're trying to encourage this kind of player to player. 00:59:27.315 --> 00:59:29.215 align:middle line:90% And [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:59:29.215 --> 00:59:32.150 align:middle line:90% 00:59:32.150 --> 00:59:34.466 align:middle line:84% So I'm not entirely sure if [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:59:34.466 --> 00:59:34.902 align:middle line:90% griefing. 00:59:34.902 --> 00:59:37.580 align:middle line:84% It was an incredibly smart tactical-- 00:59:37.580 --> 00:59:39.710 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: See, I would not call that griefing. 00:59:39.710 --> 00:59:44.110 align:middle line:84% It may have been done to annoy the people who were running 00:59:44.110 --> 00:59:45.450 align:middle line:90% the company that he took down. 00:59:45.450 --> 00:59:48.750 align:middle line:90% But see it as exploration. 00:59:48.750 --> 00:59:50.500 align:middle line:90% I'm going to try and-- 00:59:50.500 --> 00:59:52.080 align:middle line:84% it's [UNINTELLIGIBLE] player interaction. 00:59:52.080 --> 00:59:54.500 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:59:54.500 --> 00:59:54.950 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:59:54.950 --> 00:59:57.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I started a major corporation all by myself. 00:59:57.080 --> 00:59:58.420 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, might actually be-- 00:59:58.420 --> 01:00:00.900 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:02.940 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you put that on your resume? 01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:05.340 align:middle line:90% Single-handedly [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:07.050 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] been hired by a lawyer. 01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:08.300 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:00:08.300 --> 01:00:11.960 align:middle line:90% 01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:13.250 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So, what I would actually 01:00:13.250 --> 01:00:15.940 align:middle line:90% like to end this with-- 01:00:15.940 --> 01:00:18.280 align:middle line:90% we've got about 15 minutes. 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:19.545 align:middle line:90% Is to spend some time-- 01:00:19.545 --> 01:00:21.470 align:middle line:84% I would say, how many of you have we got? 01:00:21.470 --> 01:00:24.793 align:middle line:84% One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 01:00:24.793 --> 01:00:28.290 align:middle line:90% 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. 01:00:28.290 --> 01:00:30.100 align:middle line:90% So, groups of four. 01:00:30.100 --> 01:00:33.175 align:middle line:84% And what I'd like folks to do-- 01:00:33.175 --> 01:00:34.425 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- 01:00:34.425 --> 01:00:38.760 align:middle line:90% 01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:41.610 align:middle line:84% I'd like folks to come up with other axes. 01:00:41.610 --> 01:00:46.110 align:middle line:84% Not necessarily anything having to do with 01:00:46.110 --> 01:00:46.920 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:52.264 align:middle line:84% Give me two things that you feel are diametrically opposed 01:00:52.264 --> 01:00:56.580 align:middle line:84% but in describing a game, or any series of games. 01:00:56.580 --> 01:00:59.180 align:middle line:84% You can place games on other sub-axes. 01:00:59.180 --> 01:01:04.076 align:middle line:84% If we have time, we can talk about an attitude difference. 01:01:04.076 --> 01:01:08.230 align:middle line:84% But something to help describe two people, OK, this game is 01:01:08.230 --> 01:01:11.172 align:middle line:84% on the hard extreme of one, this game's on the hard 01:01:11.172 --> 01:01:13.630 align:middle line:90% extreme of the other. 01:01:13.630 --> 01:01:16.860 align:middle line:84% The goal here is to come up with terms that will help you 01:01:16.860 --> 01:01:22.160 align:middle line:84% identify who this game might be target towards. 01:01:22.160 --> 01:01:24.950 align:middle line:84% What kind of player might this game be targeting? 01:01:24.950 --> 01:01:28.430 align:middle line:84% Not necessarily using Bartle's terminology at all. 01:01:28.430 --> 01:01:30.504 align:middle line:84% Bartle's terminology, as we have said, is kind of weak, so 01:01:30.504 --> 01:01:36.015 align:middle line:84% let's throw out some other words to 01:01:36.015 --> 01:01:37.970 align:middle line:90% describe games already. 01:01:37.970 --> 01:01:41.486 align:middle line:84% If that fails, because you haven't really thought about 01:01:41.486 --> 01:01:44.150 align:middle line:84% it, to come up with some new words. 01:01:44.150 --> 01:01:45.686 align:middle line:90% Real game-ish words. 01:01:45.686 --> 01:01:46.936 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:01:46.936 --> 01:02:08.850 align:middle line:90% 01:02:08.850 --> 01:02:10.942 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Random versus strategy. 01:02:10.942 --> 01:02:12.192 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Oh, very good. 01:02:12.192 --> 01:02:18.110 align:middle line:90% 01:02:18.110 --> 01:02:20.735 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Original versus copy. 01:02:20.735 --> 01:02:21.985 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:02:21.985 --> 01:02:29.150 align:middle line:90% 01:02:29.150 --> 01:02:34.100 align:middle line:84% I'd rather use more chance or random to get the point across 01:02:34.100 --> 01:02:35.090 align:middle line:90% pretty clearly. 01:02:35.090 --> 01:02:36.590 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:02:36.590 --> 01:02:36.950 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Right. 01:02:36.950 --> 01:02:41.220 align:middle line:84% So I think that axis should be random, deterministic and/or 01:02:41.220 --> 01:02:43.970 align:middle line:90% reactive and deliberative. 01:02:43.970 --> 01:02:46.390 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:02:46.390 --> 01:02:48.770 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's fancy. 01:02:48.770 --> 01:02:51.175 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:02:51.175 --> 01:02:52.630 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Say that one again? 01:02:52.630 --> 01:02:53.600 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Reactive. 01:02:53.600 --> 01:02:56.034 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So reactive and delibrative. 01:02:56.034 --> 01:02:58.140 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Reactive and deliberative. 01:02:58.140 --> 01:02:59.475 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Or random and deterministic. 01:02:59.475 --> 01:03:03.500 align:middle line:90% 01:03:03.500 --> 01:03:04.680 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So you can definitely still have 01:03:04.680 --> 01:03:06.030 align:middle line:90% randomness and have strategy. 01:03:06.030 --> 01:03:06.760 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Right. 01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:09.210 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But random and deterministic. 01:03:09.210 --> 01:03:12.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They would be somewhere on the axis, right? 01:03:12.040 --> 01:03:14.770 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the problem is, you can have incredible amount 01:03:14.770 --> 01:03:18.020 align:middle line:84% of randomness but if you can just figure out the 01:03:18.020 --> 01:03:19.520 align:middle line:84% probabilities, you can still have an 01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:21.330 align:middle line:90% optimum strategy, right? 01:03:21.330 --> 01:03:22.752 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But then that's less random. 01:03:22.752 --> 01:03:26.720 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: In doing this, you can't have a system that is so 01:03:26.720 --> 01:03:31.336 align:middle line:84% complex yet deterministic that there's no way you can predict 01:03:31.336 --> 01:03:32.580 align:middle line:90% what's going to happen next. 01:03:32.580 --> 01:03:32.866 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 01:03:32.866 --> 01:03:35.450 align:middle line:90% Killer robot. 01:03:35.450 --> 01:03:37.775 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:03:37.775 --> 01:03:40.745 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: It's theoretically possible, but this is-- 01:03:40.745 --> 01:03:41.995 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:03:41.995 --> 01:03:45.360 align:middle line:90% 01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:47.802 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Player versus system agency? 01:03:47.802 --> 01:03:51.300 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Player versus-- also system-- 01:03:51.300 --> 01:03:54.270 align:middle line:84% player versus system agency is kind of your-- 01:03:54.270 --> 01:03:56.370 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's distributed. 01:03:56.370 --> 01:03:59.852 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: It's the name of your tactics, right? 01:03:59.852 --> 01:04:00.308 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 01:04:00.308 --> 01:04:01.220 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:04:01.220 --> 01:04:03.580 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You also had a low learning curve versus high 01:04:03.580 --> 01:04:06.220 align:middle line:90% learning curve. 01:04:06.220 --> 01:04:10.640 align:middle line:84% You're definitely not on both ends of that, and-- 01:04:10.640 --> 01:04:12.090 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Fast versus slow. 01:04:12.090 --> 01:04:15.990 align:middle line:90% 01:04:15.990 --> 01:04:18.122 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:04:18.122 --> 01:04:19.535 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I like that idea. 01:04:19.535 --> 01:04:21.890 align:middle line:90% Fast versus slow. 01:04:21.890 --> 01:04:29.570 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So, another axis you may have was you could call it 01:04:29.570 --> 01:04:35.569 align:middle line:84% freedom and predetermined paths in the game. 01:04:35.569 --> 01:04:36.550 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:04:36.550 --> 01:04:37.490 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Huh? 01:04:37.490 --> 01:04:39.400 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:41.760 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Freedom versus constraint. 01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:43.980 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I can't remember the terms, but ludus and pitheus, 01:04:43.980 --> 01:04:44.960 align:middle line:90% something like that. 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:47.630 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:04:47.630 --> 01:04:49.905 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So one more that I use here often, 01:04:49.905 --> 01:04:51.155 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:04:51.155 --> 01:04:54.540 align:middle line:90% 01:04:54.540 --> 01:04:55.790 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:04:55.790 --> 01:04:58.810 align:middle line:90% 01:04:58.810 --> 01:04:59.840 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: 13 hours of Final Fantasy-- 01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:01.340 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:05:01.340 --> 01:05:02.590 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:05:02.590 --> 01:05:08.722 align:middle line:90% 01:05:08.722 --> 01:05:11.140 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: For 60 hours. 01:05:11.140 --> 01:05:12.390 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:05:12.390 --> 01:05:20.076 align:middle line:90% 01:05:20.076 --> 01:05:24.028 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Sandbox, I would say, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:05:24.028 --> 01:05:26.004 align:middle line:90% is a very broad one. 01:05:26.004 --> 01:05:29.280 align:middle line:84% It's one that people generally understand as embodying a sort 01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:30.750 align:middle line:90% of freedom. 01:05:30.750 --> 01:05:33.660 align:middle line:84% You get to dick around, basically. 01:05:33.660 --> 01:05:36.950 align:middle line:84% You get to play Grand Theft Auto totally not 01:05:36.950 --> 01:05:39.119 align:middle line:90% following the storyline. 01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:43.627 align:middle line:84% And-- actually, it kind of goes on, it becomes a little 01:05:43.627 --> 01:05:45.036 align:middle line:84% bit less of that, you can get to do , you get to play but 01:05:45.036 --> 01:05:47.970 align:middle line:84% the whole idea is that that world has ramps everywhere, so 01:05:47.970 --> 01:05:51.350 align:middle line:84% that you can drive cars and vehicles [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:05:51.350 --> 01:05:52.940 align:middle line:90% Anything else? 01:05:52.940 --> 01:05:55.490 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's realism versus attraction. 01:05:55.490 --> 01:05:56.750 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oooh. 01:05:56.750 --> 01:05:59.090 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What? 01:05:59.090 --> 01:06:02.310 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the difference between EVE Online, for 01:06:02.310 --> 01:06:03.640 align:middle line:84% example, which is supposed to be very 01:06:03.640 --> 01:06:05.710 align:middle line:90% realistic, simulating something. 01:06:05.710 --> 01:06:09.750 align:middle line:84% Whereas poker, for example, is just cards and numbers. 01:06:09.750 --> 01:06:13.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Something on the freedom sandbox versus 01:06:13.190 --> 01:06:15.530 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] on rails, there's a very interesting 01:06:15.530 --> 01:06:19.260 align:middle line:90% thing in [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:21.530 align:middle line:84% there's a feature in one of the games where you were told 01:06:21.530 --> 01:06:24.240 align:middle line:84% you need X amount of money to be able to pay for the ship 01:06:24.240 --> 01:06:25.180 align:middle line:90% out of here. 01:06:25.180 --> 01:06:27.220 align:middle line:84% And you're placed in a sort of sandbox environment. 01:06:27.220 --> 01:06:28.174 align:middle line:90% And you're given-- 01:06:28.174 --> 01:06:30.340 align:middle line:90% you're not told, but-- 01:06:30.340 --> 01:06:33.528 align:middle line:84% whatever ways you can think of to make that amount of money. 01:06:33.528 --> 01:06:34.560 align:middle line:84% The amount of money you need to leave 01:06:34.560 --> 01:06:34.710 align:middle line:90% that part of the game. 01:06:34.710 --> 01:06:38.060 align:middle line:84% So it's a predetermined sandbox . 01:06:38.060 --> 01:06:39.190 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:06:39.190 --> 01:06:42.190 align:middle line:84% a lot of adventure games, a lot of roleplaying games, are 01:06:42.190 --> 01:06:44.535 align:middle line:90% largely [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:06:44.535 --> 01:06:45.790 align:middle line:90% areas of freedom. 01:06:45.790 --> 01:06:48.820 align:middle line:84% Even in a game like Final Fantasy, it is not something 01:06:48.820 --> 01:06:51.980 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] in other games in the series, the story 01:06:51.980 --> 01:06:53.330 align:middle line:90% is largely predetermined. 01:06:53.330 --> 01:06:58.238 align:middle line:84% But what you do in combat is very, very fluid. 01:06:58.238 --> 01:07:01.880 align:middle line:84% And that's kind of like the dichotomy that 01:07:01.880 --> 01:07:02.310 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:07:02.310 --> 01:07:06.410 align:middle line:84% Square Enix, or Square in the past, have decided 01:07:06.410 --> 01:07:07.800 align:middle line:90% that that was OK. 01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:11.990 align:middle line:84% This helps us cater to people who want some flexibility in 01:07:11.990 --> 01:07:16.090 align:middle line:84% how they're going to play, by making the combat system fluid 01:07:16.090 --> 01:07:16.825 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:07:16.825 --> 01:07:17.780 align:middle line:90% they want. 01:07:17.780 --> 01:07:22.140 align:middle line:84% But also lets us cater to people who really want that 01:07:22.140 --> 01:07:24.513 align:middle line:84% long, over-arching, epic narrative. 01:07:24.513 --> 01:07:27.399 align:middle line:90% And we can only pick one. 01:07:27.399 --> 01:07:29.323 align:middle line:84% We can't branch [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:07:29.323 --> 01:07:34.614 align:middle line:90% 01:07:34.614 --> 01:07:36.080 align:middle line:90% Are there others? 01:07:36.080 --> 01:07:37.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I mean, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:07:37.160 --> 01:07:38.570 align:middle line:90% a lot of [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:07:38.570 --> 01:07:42.980 align:middle line:90% 01:07:42.980 --> 01:07:45.406 align:middle line:84% puzzle games there's only one way to do it, whereas 01:07:45.406 --> 01:07:47.378 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:07:47.378 --> 01:07:48.628 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:07:48.628 --> 01:07:51.815 align:middle line:90% 01:07:51.815 --> 01:07:54.491 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I mean, you could have multiple 01:07:54.491 --> 01:07:56.415 align:middle line:90% solutions, I guess. 01:07:56.415 --> 01:07:58.339 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Multiple and single. 01:07:58.339 --> 01:08:01.225 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:08:01.225 --> 01:08:03.527 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I'm not so sure if that tells you 01:08:03.527 --> 01:08:05.962 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:08:05.962 --> 01:08:09.858 align:middle line:84% if I tell you something about the constraints on 01:08:09.858 --> 01:08:12.293 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] budget of-- 01:08:12.293 --> 01:08:14.241 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I prefer games that are much more 01:08:14.241 --> 01:08:15.215 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:08:15.215 --> 01:08:18.649 align:middle line:84% And I guess it goes back to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:08:18.649 --> 01:08:20.190 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Because the interesting thing about 01:08:20.190 --> 01:08:23.735 align:middle line:84% multiple solutions and single solutions is that multiple 01:08:23.735 --> 01:08:26.620 align:middle line:84% solutions-- it could be all design. 01:08:26.620 --> 01:08:29.635 align:middle line:84% I could design in the game-- in fact, now, if you play Deus 01:08:29.635 --> 01:08:34.285 align:middle line:84% Ex, or any of the sequels, they specifically stated that 01:08:34.285 --> 01:08:38.734 align:middle line:84% they made this game with multiple solutions in mind. 01:08:38.734 --> 01:08:42.970 align:middle line:84% And with the data sets to, they designed it so that they 01:08:42.970 --> 01:08:45.243 align:middle line:84% thought, this puzzle needs to have three solutions. 01:08:45.243 --> 01:08:48.180 align:middle line:84% And they actually will design an environment for it. 01:08:48.180 --> 01:08:54.010 align:middle line:84% So, while the game kind of tells us, you get to play with 01:08:54.010 --> 01:08:56.120 align:middle line:84% the system, you get to figure out how all these things 01:08:56.120 --> 01:08:57.270 align:middle line:84% combine and come up with solutions on your own. 01:08:57.270 --> 01:09:03.524 align:middle line:84% Really, they tried to design it so that you have three very 01:09:03.524 --> 01:09:04.460 align:middle line:84% clear options at any given time. 01:09:04.460 --> 01:09:05.856 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:09:05.856 --> 01:09:07.790 align:middle line:84% And so you can have multiple solutions. 01:09:07.790 --> 01:09:12.040 align:middle line:84% Whereas this is like freedom sandboxing, kind of applies 01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:13.851 align:middle line:90% not necessarily to design. 01:09:13.851 --> 01:09:17.503 align:middle line:84% You've got lots of little things that you can do and 01:09:17.503 --> 01:09:20.182 align:middle line:84% lots of different spaces that you can explore and design. 01:09:20.182 --> 01:09:23.104 align:middle line:84% It's not like you've got one obstacle and three different 01:09:23.104 --> 01:09:25.052 align:middle line:90% ways to solve it. 01:09:25.052 --> 01:09:27.324 align:middle line:84% You've got all kinds of different things that you 01:09:27.324 --> 01:09:27.974 align:middle line:90% could be doing. 01:09:27.974 --> 01:09:28.960 align:middle line:84% You could be like [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:30.974 align:middle line:90% So these are different axes. 01:09:30.974 --> 01:09:34.026 align:middle line:84% I just want to point out that these are different ways of 01:09:34.026 --> 01:09:36.698 align:middle line:90% doing different things. 01:09:36.698 --> 01:09:40.060 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You can have, in terms of rule changing games, 01:09:40.060 --> 01:09:41.766 align:middle line:84% whether it's dynamic rules or static rules. 01:09:41.766 --> 01:09:42.098 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Hmm. 01:09:42.098 --> 01:09:47.244 align:middle line:84% So, hyper-dynamic, static, and then [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:09:47.244 --> 01:09:52.722 align:middle line:90% 01:09:52.722 --> 01:09:55.010 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Are the rule going to change if [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:09:55.010 --> 01:09:58.042 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There are some games where the whole point is 01:09:58.042 --> 01:09:59.018 align:middle line:90% changing rules. 01:09:59.018 --> 01:09:59.994 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Like Flux. 01:09:59.994 --> 01:10:02.434 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:10:02.434 --> 01:10:04.800 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:06.050 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:10:06.050 --> 01:10:13.160 align:middle line:90% 01:10:13.160 --> 01:10:14.410 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And assuming basically [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:10:14.410 --> 01:10:18.156 align:middle line:90% 01:10:18.156 --> 01:10:19.647 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Timescale of decisions. 01:10:19.647 --> 01:10:21.340 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: So, short model? 01:10:21.340 --> 01:10:23.740 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, like twitch games versus thought games. 01:10:23.740 --> 01:10:26.354 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] decisions. 01:10:26.354 --> 01:10:28.839 align:middle line:84% Sort of like that are contemplative and reactive. 01:10:28.839 --> 01:10:31.324 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:10:31.324 --> 01:10:34.306 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Are you guys going for basically the same thing. 01:10:34.306 --> 01:10:37.504 align:middle line:84% Like, reactive means things are coming at you and you have 01:10:37.504 --> 01:10:39.696 align:middle line:84% to respond really, really quickly. 01:10:39.696 --> 01:10:41.644 align:middle line:84% Maybe [UNINTELLIGIBLE] about it. 01:10:41.644 --> 01:10:45.540 align:middle line:84% And deliberative is like a trivia game. 01:10:45.540 --> 01:10:46.790 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:10:46.790 --> 01:10:48.960 align:middle line:90% 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:51.280 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Doesn't necessarily mean that. 01:10:51.280 --> 01:10:53.900 align:middle line:84% The kind of turn-based game is very fast-paced. 01:10:53.900 --> 01:10:58.202 align:middle line:84% Because the weight of any given decision is not going to 01:10:58.202 --> 01:10:59.180 align:middle line:90% be so deep. 01:10:59.180 --> 01:11:02.158 align:middle line:90% So, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:02.158 --> 01:11:05.602 align:middle line:84% I'm just going to put this up here because I'm running out 01:11:05.602 --> 01:11:07.078 align:middle line:90% of space [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:07.078 --> 01:11:11.020 align:middle line:90% 01:11:11.020 --> 01:11:14.580 align:middle line:84% that's one way of describing a game, reactive versus 01:11:14.580 --> 01:11:15.880 align:middle line:90% deliberative. 01:11:15.880 --> 01:11:17.130 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:17.130 --> 01:11:19.230 align:middle line:90% 01:11:19.230 --> 01:11:23.633 align:middle line:84% I bet you could take two of these and put them on an axis 01:11:23.633 --> 01:11:24.945 align:middle line:84% and then we could talk about them. 01:11:24.945 --> 01:11:26.860 align:middle line:90% On a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:26.860 --> 01:11:30.490 align:middle line:84% but every once in a while we find a game that 01:11:30.490 --> 01:11:32.320 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:32.320 --> 01:11:33.430 align:middle line:90% Which is fine. 01:11:33.430 --> 01:11:35.743 align:middle line:84% Which is part of [UNINTELLIGIBLE] to talk about 01:11:35.743 --> 01:11:36.993 align:middle line:90% these games. 01:11:36.993 --> 01:11:38.810 align:middle line:90% 01:11:38.810 --> 01:11:42.838 align:middle line:84% These are really, really useful terms. 01:11:42.838 --> 01:11:44.088 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:44.088 --> 01:11:47.130 align:middle line:90% 01:11:47.130 --> 01:11:49.454 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:49.454 --> 01:11:50.704 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:11:50.704 --> 01:11:54.264 align:middle line:90% 01:11:54.264 --> 01:11:55.707 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:11:55.707 --> 01:11:59.101 align:middle line:84% it's a little bit more boxing, it's a little bit more 01:11:59.101 --> 01:12:00.945 align:middle line:84% restrictive than predetermined. 01:12:00.945 --> 01:12:02.330 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:12:02.330 --> 01:12:05.350 align:middle line:84% sandbox and rails are more like [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 01:12:05.350 --> 01:12:13.845 align:middle line:90%