WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.050 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:02.470 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.470 --> 00:00:03.880 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:03.880 --> 00:00:06.920 align:middle line:84% Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 00:00:06.920 --> 00:00:10.570 align:middle line:84% offer high quality educational resources for free. 00:00:10.570 --> 00:00:13.470 align:middle line:84% To make a donation or view additional materials from 00:00:13.470 --> 00:00:17.400 align:middle line:84% hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 00:00:17.400 --> 00:00:18.650 align:middle line:90% ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:18.650 --> 00:00:20.932 align:middle line:90% 00:00:20.932 --> 00:00:22.850 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: OK, so I'm actually to keep the 00:00:22.850 --> 00:00:25.170 align:middle line:84% discussion today pretty short because the games that we've 00:00:25.170 --> 00:00:26.580 align:middle line:90% got lined up are pretty long. 00:00:26.580 --> 00:00:30.572 align:middle line:90% 00:00:30.572 --> 00:00:32.070 align:middle line:84% Two of them I know are really good. 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:36.100 align:middle line:84% One of them was good last year so we'll see again this year. 00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:38.600 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:41.790 align:middle line:90% So we'll see. 00:00:41.790 --> 00:00:43.978 align:middle line:90% Are there 4 games at least. 00:00:43.978 --> 00:00:44.936 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I'm [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:00:44.936 --> 00:00:47.331 align:middle line:84% Mexico and Puerto Rico which will be five. 00:00:47.331 --> 00:00:48.290 align:middle line:84% I just haven't pulled it out yet. 00:00:48.290 --> 00:00:49.535 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I call Thebes. 00:00:49.535 --> 00:00:50.720 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Cool. 00:00:50.720 --> 00:00:51.140 align:middle line:90% For people-- 00:00:51.140 --> 00:00:52.260 align:middle line:90% have you played Thebes before. 00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:52.600 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No. 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:52.930 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Good. 00:00:52.930 --> 00:00:53.300 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:53.300 --> 00:01:00.650 align:middle line:84% So for people who played San Juan last time, I think Puerto 00:01:00.650 --> 00:01:03.070 align:middle line:84% Rico's an interesting comparison. 00:01:03.070 --> 00:01:05.150 align:middle line:84% Because, San Juan actually, it's a sequel to Puerto Rico. 00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:06.050 align:middle line:90% So you kind of-- 00:01:06.050 --> 00:01:06.340 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:08.150 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Which one was San Juan? 00:01:08.150 --> 00:01:12.520 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: That was the one where, how 00:01:12.520 --> 00:01:13.190 align:middle line:90% would describe it? 00:01:13.190 --> 00:01:14.735 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is it related to Race for the Galaxy as well? 00:01:14.735 --> 00:01:15.120 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:16.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You choose the action. 00:01:16.470 --> 00:01:17.830 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Ah, Race? 00:01:17.830 --> 00:01:22.820 align:middle line:84% So that takes us right into today's game. 00:01:22.820 --> 00:01:25.400 align:middle line:84% So Puerto Rico is kind of what was [INAUDIBLE]. 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:34.860 align:middle line:90% 00:01:34.860 --> 00:01:40.190 align:middle line:84% Puerto Rico is the, I guess it was actually the first 00:01:40.190 --> 00:01:41.474 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:01:41.474 --> 00:01:43.260 align:middle line:84% we needed previous [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:43.870 align:middle line:90% inspirations. 00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:48.610 align:middle line:84% And San Juan's kind of the card game of this, which is 00:01:48.610 --> 00:01:49.820 align:middle line:90% why we introduced it earlier. 00:01:49.820 --> 00:01:52.510 align:middle line:84% Because you guys were working on card games. 00:01:52.510 --> 00:02:00.140 align:middle line:84% Race to the Galaxy is more of a spiritual succession as 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:02.850 align:middle line:90% described in the reading. 00:02:02.850 --> 00:02:04.410 align:middle line:84% But you could also think of it as a 00:02:04.410 --> 00:02:05.500 align:middle line:90% clone with a few upgrades. 00:02:05.500 --> 00:02:06.890 align:middle line:84% Because it wasn't the same people. 00:02:06.890 --> 00:02:08.298 align:middle line:84% It wasn't the same people who made-- 00:02:08.298 --> 00:02:10.210 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It was [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:02:10.210 --> 00:02:13.032 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: To clarify, the guy who did San Juan and the guy 00:02:13.032 --> 00:02:16.880 align:middle line:84% who did Race to the Galaxy were kind of collaborating. 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:18.410 align:middle line:84% So the games are really similar because they 00:02:18.410 --> 00:02:19.470 align:middle line:90% influenced each other. 00:02:19.470 --> 00:02:21.620 align:middle line:84% But they were not strictly the same project. 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:24.350 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So you can think of it as multiple people 00:02:24.350 --> 00:02:27.685 align:middle line:84% from the same artist community turning out similar games at 00:02:27.685 --> 00:02:28.300 align:middle line:90% the same time. 00:02:28.300 --> 00:02:29.620 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Nice. 00:02:29.620 --> 00:02:32.790 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But, yeah, informed by each other, and 00:02:32.790 --> 00:02:37.910 align:middle line:84% when Race came out it was very much seen as this is Puerto 00:02:37.910 --> 00:02:42.454 align:middle line:84% Rico with problems fixed, or the game has expanded my bad-- 00:02:42.454 --> 00:02:43.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And problems added, too. 00:02:43.430 --> 00:02:46.040 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: --and problems added, too, and, of course, 00:02:46.040 --> 00:02:48.020 align:middle line:90% completely different scenes. 00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:51.630 align:middle line:84% But at least in terms of game mechanics, that's a nice 00:02:51.630 --> 00:02:54.080 align:middle line:84% connection that you can actually see among the games 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:55.661 align:middle line:84% that you played before and you're going 00:02:55.661 --> 00:02:57.670 align:middle line:90% to be playing today. 00:02:57.670 --> 00:03:03.059 align:middle line:84% Not every single game that we've got here has got that 00:03:03.059 --> 00:03:03.970 align:middle line:90% kind of heritage factor. 00:03:03.970 --> 00:03:06.390 align:middle line:84% These games aren't specifically picked, to me, to 00:03:06.390 --> 00:03:09.400 align:middle line:84% match up with previous games or sequels. 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.640 align:middle line:84% The only reason why I'm talking about sequels because 00:03:11.640 --> 00:03:14.480 align:middle line:84% we had to talk about them sooner or later. 00:03:14.480 --> 00:03:17.200 align:middle line:84% Of course, Battlestar Galactica is really a 00:03:17.200 --> 00:03:18.440 align:middle line:90% [? rotation ?] 00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:20.280 align:middle line:90% of the TV series. 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:24.720 align:middle line:84% And I wouldn't quite call this a sequel, in a sense, because 00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:26.704 align:middle line:84% simply, this is not based on a previous 00:03:26.704 --> 00:03:27.532 align:middle line:90% Battlestar Galactica game. 00:03:27.532 --> 00:03:30.561 align:middle line:84% I'm sure there were previous Battlestar Galactica games 00:03:30.561 --> 00:03:33.440 align:middle line:84% that were based on the old '70s TV series that have 00:03:33.440 --> 00:03:34.760 align:middle line:90% nothing to do with this one. 00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:37.120 align:middle line:84% This is more of the adaptation. 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.120 align:middle line:84% And the reason why I'm using that upgrade is so that we can 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:42.500 align:middle line:84% be very clear in our vocabulary. 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:46.810 align:middle line:84% This is taking elements of something that's in a 00:03:46.810 --> 00:03:50.430 align:middle line:84% different medium, like the film or the TV series, and 00:03:50.430 --> 00:03:54.780 align:middle line:84% trying to figure out what in that TV series, in that world, 00:03:54.780 --> 00:03:58.940 align:middle line:84% that has been created, that fictional world, might yield 00:03:58.940 --> 00:04:00.120 align:middle line:90% interesting game playing. 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.070 align:middle line:84% And this game is pretty much about figuring out who is the 00:04:03.070 --> 00:04:05.630 align:middle line:84% Cylon in and among all the players. 00:04:05.630 --> 00:04:08.104 align:middle line:84% Among all the players, there's going to be traitors. 00:04:08.104 --> 00:04:12.700 align:middle line:84% And you try to hide your activities, and you try to 00:04:12.700 --> 00:04:16.720 align:middle line:84% help people, help the human race survive, if you happen 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:17.839 align:middle line:90% not to be a traitor. 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:19.930 align:middle line:84% But some of the things that you end up doing in order to 00:04:19.930 --> 00:04:21.940 align:middle line:84% help the human race, not just surviving and not looking 00:04:21.940 --> 00:04:23.630 align:middle line:90% suspicious. 00:04:23.630 --> 00:04:25.940 align:middle line:84% If you played Mafia it kind of has a little bit of that feel. 00:04:25.940 --> 00:04:28.200 align:middle line:84% Only this is way more heavy [? weighing ?] 00:04:28.200 --> 00:04:30.680 align:middle line:84% of a game mechanics because they really, really wanted to 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.840 align:middle line:84% make you think like the characters, that you have the 00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:34.904 align:middle line:84% same dilemmas that the characters 00:04:34.904 --> 00:04:38.780 align:middle line:90% in the TV show have. 00:04:38.780 --> 00:04:41.350 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Does the Cylon know that he or she is a Cylon? 00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:44.660 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I believe that, I believe you 00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:46.080 align:middle line:90% can find out halfway. 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:46.960 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:51.260 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah, if I recall the rules correctly. 00:04:51.260 --> 00:04:54.760 align:middle line:84% And then there are players who will know 00:04:54.760 --> 00:04:55.700 align:middle line:90% right from the beginning. 00:04:55.700 --> 00:04:57.930 align:middle line:90% So there may be more than one. 00:04:57.930 --> 00:05:00.994 align:middle line:84% In fact, there is really more than one. 00:05:00.994 --> 00:05:01.860 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I'm psyched. 00:05:01.860 --> 00:05:06.540 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: OK, so there were a bunch of different 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:08.895 align:middle line:90% things that were listed in-- 00:05:08.895 --> 00:05:11.770 align:middle line:84% they were given as reasons why people want to do sequels. 00:05:11.770 --> 00:05:15.920 align:middle line:84% But for the most part the big one is just you're building 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:16.900 align:middle line:90% off an established base. 00:05:16.900 --> 00:05:20.630 align:middle line:84% You're not having to rebuild everything from scratch. 00:05:20.630 --> 00:05:24.640 align:middle line:84% In many cases, a sequel doesn't actually cost less or 00:05:24.640 --> 00:05:27.540 align:middle line:84% take less time than making your original game. 00:05:27.540 --> 00:05:30.535 align:middle line:84% You just end up spending, hopefully, spending that 00:05:30.535 --> 00:05:33.780 align:middle line:84% development time a little bit more wisely. 00:05:33.780 --> 00:05:36.220 align:middle line:84% You avoid a lot of pitfalls because you're pretty much 00:05:36.220 --> 00:05:37.370 align:middle line:90% making a very similar game. 00:05:37.370 --> 00:05:42.630 align:middle line:84% The game industry's been one of those fields where, oddly 00:05:42.630 --> 00:05:46.790 align:middle line:84% enough, part two, the follow up, tends to be better then 00:05:46.790 --> 00:05:47.360 align:middle line:90% the original. 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:51.730 align:middle line:84% As opposed to how many movie sequels are generally better 00:05:51.730 --> 00:05:52.370 align:middle line:90% than the original? 00:05:52.370 --> 00:05:53.900 align:middle line:90% Godfather, that's one of them. 00:05:53.900 --> 00:05:56.010 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Back to the Future. 00:05:56.010 --> 00:05:57.560 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's rare. 00:05:57.560 --> 00:05:58.460 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It's really rare. 00:05:58.460 --> 00:06:01.180 align:middle line:84% I'm thinking the Clint Eastwood man with no name 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:02.870 align:middle line:90% series, Godfather. 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:03.824 align:middle line:90% Any other? 00:06:03.824 --> 00:06:04.780 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Back to the Future. 00:06:04.780 --> 00:06:06.270 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Back to the Future? 00:06:06.270 --> 00:06:06.650 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I don't know. 00:06:06.650 --> 00:06:07.280 align:middle line:90% I could go either way. 00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:08.280 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I don't agree. 00:06:08.280 --> 00:06:08.980 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It could go either way. 00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:10.130 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's arguable. 00:06:10.130 --> 00:06:10.500 align:middle line:90% It's arguable. 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:11.970 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:06:11.970 --> 00:06:14.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You mean like Empire Strikes Back. 00:06:14.200 --> 00:06:15.571 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: OK, The Empire Strikes Back. 00:06:15.571 --> 00:06:16.942 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Spider-Man, perhaps? 00:06:16.942 --> 00:06:17.870 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Spider-Man 2. 00:06:17.870 --> 00:06:18.316 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I don't know. 00:06:18.316 --> 00:06:18.762 align:middle line:90% I felt like they were all bad. 00:06:18.762 --> 00:06:19.208 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: They were all bad. 00:06:19.208 --> 00:06:20.100 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That's true. 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:21.350 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It was better. 00:06:21.350 --> 00:06:23.350 align:middle line:90% 00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:24.290 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But, yeah, as we-- 00:06:24.290 --> 00:06:25.486 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:06:25.486 --> 00:06:27.730 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Dark Knight? 00:06:27.730 --> 00:06:31.694 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah, I will, yeah, I'll give you that. 00:06:31.694 --> 00:06:33.810 align:middle line:90% But it's still kind of tough. 00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:36.440 align:middle line:84% Whereas how many good games sequels-- 00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:39.990 align:middle line:84% How many games can you think of where you played both the 00:06:39.990 --> 00:06:42.470 align:middle line:84% first, the original, and then the sequel to it? 00:06:42.470 --> 00:06:45.160 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.550 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Just the sequel. 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:50.510 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: OK, well, some of them are spaced apart so 00:06:50.510 --> 00:06:52.620 align:middle line:84% far that you actually only ended up playing-- 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:53.370 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, I mean like Half-Life. 00:06:53.370 --> 00:06:55.620 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Half-Life, Half-Life 2, for instance. 00:06:55.620 --> 00:06:56.738 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Star Trek. 00:06:56.738 --> 00:06:58.172 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Star Trek, Star Trek 2. 00:06:58.172 --> 00:06:59.415 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Age of Empires. 00:06:59.415 --> 00:07:02.132 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Age of Empires I, II, and then III. 00:07:02.132 --> 00:07:03.070 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Shogun - Total War. 00:07:03.070 --> 00:07:03.720 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Shogun. 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:05.150 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:07:05.150 --> 00:07:06.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The Total War series. 00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:08.230 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah, Total War is kind of an interesting 00:07:08.230 --> 00:07:11.920 align:middle line:84% thing because they don't pitch them as sequels. 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.240 align:middle line:84% But they very much pitch them as a series. 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.040 align:middle line:84% And the whole idea is that if you liked one game, you 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.310 align:middle line:84% actually know a lot about what any of the other games 00:07:19.310 --> 00:07:20.280 align:middle line:90% in that series do. 00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:22.880 align:middle line:84% Sure, graphically they're upgrading. 00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:24.490 align:middle line:84% Game mechanics wise they're trying to 00:07:24.490 --> 00:07:25.870 align:middle line:90% portal a lot of things. 00:07:25.870 --> 00:07:26.900 align:middle line:90% Some of them are medieval. 00:07:26.900 --> 00:07:28.600 align:middle line:90% Some of them are Japanese. 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:30.480 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In the readings, they mentioned that Final 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.120 align:middle line:84% Fantastic VII was the sequel to VI. 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:33.670 align:middle line:90% Is that correct? 00:07:33.670 --> 00:07:36.752 align:middle line:90% Is that correct nomenclature? 00:07:36.752 --> 00:07:39.940 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And I will disagree with that, actually. 00:07:39.940 --> 00:07:42.795 align:middle line:84% Final Fantasy VII actually has a sequel, for instance. 00:07:42.795 --> 00:07:43.500 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Right. 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:44.650 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: What was it, Crisis Core? 00:07:44.650 --> 00:07:45.720 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:46.980 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's a couple, actually. 00:07:46.980 --> 00:07:47.400 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:07:47.400 --> 00:07:47.970 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: More than one-- 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:49.300 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:07:49.300 --> 00:07:50.940 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: First of all, there's the movie. 00:07:50.940 --> 00:07:52.266 align:middle line:90% That sequel was the movie. 00:07:52.266 --> 00:07:53.260 align:middle line:84% And then they did a bunch of things. 00:07:53.260 --> 00:07:54.030 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh God, there were-- 00:07:54.030 --> 00:07:54.970 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Final Fantasy [UNINTELLIGIBLE]-- 00:07:54.970 --> 00:07:55.280 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:55.940 align:middle line:90% Final Fantasy-- 00:07:55.940 --> 00:07:57.950 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: --an entry in a series but-- 00:07:57.950 --> 00:08:00.010 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:08:00.010 --> 00:08:02.366 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But I think when it comes to, this is what 00:08:02.366 --> 00:08:04.980 align:middle line:84% we're going to be pitching to a publisher-- 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:08.318 align:middle line:84% I'm not sure that Square Enix needs to pitch Final Fantasy 00:08:08.318 --> 00:08:10.778 align:middle line:90% themselves-- 00:08:10.778 --> 00:08:13.840 align:middle line:84% Think of another game that has an [? all ?] series, if anyone 00:08:13.840 --> 00:08:14.660 align:middle line:90% can come up with one. 00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:16.030 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Baldur's Gate. 00:08:16.030 --> 00:08:17.360 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Baldur's Gate might be actually a good one 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.630 align:middle line:84% because different companies end up working on different 00:08:20.630 --> 00:08:21.990 align:middle line:90% types of revisions. 00:08:21.990 --> 00:08:25.080 align:middle line:90% Actually, most of these-- 00:08:25.080 --> 00:08:27.820 align:middle line:84% well, actually, Fallout and Baldur's Gate both come from 00:08:27.820 --> 00:08:32.010 align:middle line:84% Interplay, I believe, originally. 00:08:32.010 --> 00:08:33.900 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They went out of business after Bloodlands. 00:08:33.900 --> 00:08:35.429 align:middle line:84% We were talking about this yesterday. 00:08:35.429 --> 00:08:37.289 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I suspect that was before that-- 00:08:37.289 --> 00:08:37.940 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That was Vampires Bloodlines. 00:08:37.940 --> 00:08:38.764 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yes, this came up yesterday. 00:08:38.764 --> 00:08:39.590 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:08:39.590 --> 00:08:41.440 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: But basically-- 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.890 align:middle line:84% leaving aside what makes a company go out of business-- 00:08:45.890 --> 00:08:51.010 align:middle line:84% the issue of when you have a series and then you have 00:08:51.010 --> 00:08:53.550 align:middle line:84% different companies making different versions, Guitar 00:08:53.550 --> 00:08:54.490 align:middle line:90% Hero III, for instance-- 00:08:54.490 --> 00:08:55.565 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Knights of Republic. 00:08:55.565 --> 00:08:56.580 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Knights of the Old-- 00:08:56.580 --> 00:08:58.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The second one was [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:01.340 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So BioWare was the first one and Obsidian did 00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:03.200 align:middle line:90% the second one. 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.310 align:middle line:84% Fallout was Bethesda, Obsidian, I believe. 00:09:06.310 --> 00:09:10.840 align:middle line:84% Obsidian's really built a whole business model around 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:13.100 align:middle line:90% making part two of something. 00:09:13.100 --> 00:09:14.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Or expansion packs and stuff. 00:09:14.510 --> 00:09:15.435 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Expansion packs, no. 00:09:15.435 --> 00:09:19.590 align:middle line:84% You have closely related to that. 00:09:19.590 --> 00:09:24.300 align:middle line:84% And in those cases, sometimes, like in the case of BioWare, 00:09:24.300 --> 00:09:27.020 align:middle line:84% Obsidian connections, they have a good relationship, 00:09:27.020 --> 00:09:29.400 align:middle line:84% they've all written a lot of technology, and they are 00:09:29.400 --> 00:09:33.250 align:middle line:84% getting an advantage of we've kind of ironed out the kinks, 00:09:33.250 --> 00:09:35.330 align:middle line:84% we're just sort of continuing the story, especially the 00:09:35.330 --> 00:09:36.150 align:middle line:90% story based game. 00:09:36.150 --> 00:09:38.960 align:middle line:84% Knights of the Old Republic, clearly you've got to fit it 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.140 align:middle line:90% within the Star Wars story. 00:09:41.140 --> 00:09:44.690 align:middle line:84% And they had the interest to basically keep the tale of 00:09:44.690 --> 00:09:48.470 align:middle line:84% these characters going, even more so for-- 00:09:48.470 --> 00:09:51.210 align:middle line:84% well, Mass Effect was by Bioware, but 00:09:51.210 --> 00:09:53.150 align:middle line:90% that sort of thing. 00:09:53.150 --> 00:10:00.630 align:middle line:84% But then you have the other angle where you just want to 00:10:00.630 --> 00:10:03.070 align:middle line:84% get the same success but you want to tell a different 00:10:03.070 --> 00:10:06.465 align:middle line:84% story, or in the case of Guitar Hero III have a 00:10:06.465 --> 00:10:09.650 align:middle line:84% completely different set of music. 00:10:09.650 --> 00:10:13.535 align:middle line:84% And in Final Fantasy VII, you had certain game mechanics and 00:10:13.535 --> 00:10:15.720 align:middle line:84% certain things that carry on from game to game. 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:17.520 align:middle line:84% And definitely you want to carry the fans 00:10:17.520 --> 00:10:18.490 align:middle line:90% from game to game. 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:21.330 align:middle line:84% But part of the appeal of the Final Fantasy series is that 00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:24.260 align:middle line:84% every single one is going to be a different story, not 00:10:24.260 --> 00:10:26.118 align:middle line:84% dramatically different but it's going to be a different 00:10:26.118 --> 00:10:27.980 align:middle line:90% story with different characters 00:10:27.980 --> 00:10:29.620 align:middle line:90% and a different world. 00:10:29.620 --> 00:10:33.800 align:middle line:84% So but this is pitched very similarly when you go to a 00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:36.120 align:middle line:84% game company and your whole idea is how do we get the fans 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.355 align:middle line:84% to buy even more, or even more fans, to buy version two. 00:10:39.355 --> 00:10:42.753 align:middle line:90% 00:10:42.753 --> 00:10:45.840 align:middle line:84% There are two edges to that sword, though, because what 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.555 align:middle line:84% typically happens in a lot of sequel development is, they 00:10:48.555 --> 00:10:51.970 align:middle line:84% are trying so hard to please the original fans often by 00:10:51.970 --> 00:10:54.880 align:middle line:84% adding complexity, by adding things that build on things 00:10:54.880 --> 00:10:57.980 align:middle line:84% that players of the first game already know, that you 00:10:57.980 --> 00:11:00.290 align:middle line:84% actually start alienating new players. 00:11:00.290 --> 00:11:03.510 align:middle line:84% The game becomes just so complex or just complex enough 00:11:03.510 --> 00:11:06.684 align:middle line:84% that people start getting turned off. 00:11:06.684 --> 00:11:11.780 align:middle line:84% A couple of weeks ago over here we played Guitar Freaks 00:11:11.780 --> 00:11:13.650 align:middle line:90% on Friday Games for Gambit. 00:11:13.650 --> 00:11:16.680 align:middle line:84% And the first version is actually extremely accessible. 00:11:16.680 --> 00:11:18.730 align:middle line:84% Once again, from the second version all the way up to, I 00:11:18.730 --> 00:11:21.600 align:middle line:84% think, the version 4 that we were playing, it is almost 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.150 align:middle line:84% impossible for a new player to jump in because they've got 00:11:25.150 --> 00:11:27.505 align:middle line:84% one beginning friendly song and everything else is based 00:11:27.505 --> 00:11:28.920 align:middle line:90% for fans of the game. 00:11:28.920 --> 00:11:33.490 align:middle line:84% So you imagine a Guitar Hero game that's built entirely for 00:11:33.490 --> 00:11:36.430 align:middle line:84% people who've already mastered expert on the previous game. 00:11:36.430 --> 00:11:38.830 align:middle line:84% That's kind of what happened with Guitar Freaks. 00:11:38.830 --> 00:11:43.100 align:middle line:84% And in many cases, that might be enough if the game was 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:44.520 align:middle line:84% particularly successful the first time around, and you 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:47.320 align:middle line:84% only get 80% of the fan base to buy the second version, 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:48.760 align:middle line:90% that's still a lot of money. 00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:51.880 align:middle line:84% And it's a way lower risk compared to coming up with new 00:11:51.880 --> 00:11:53.130 align:middle line:90% IP from scratch. 00:11:53.130 --> 00:11:56.880 align:middle line:90% 00:11:56.880 --> 00:11:58.950 align:middle line:84% And a lot of companies, when they're creating IP, they're 00:11:58.950 --> 00:12:01.740 align:middle line:84% very much specifically thinking, right off the bat, 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:03.430 align:middle line:84% what are the sequel opportunities. 00:12:03.430 --> 00:12:06.510 align:middle line:84% Even now, because you've got downloadable content, so it's 00:12:06.510 --> 00:12:10.110 align:middle line:84% even narrower than that, is what are downloadable content 00:12:10.110 --> 00:12:10.630 align:middle line:90% opportunities? 00:12:10.630 --> 00:12:13.790 align:middle line:84% How do we release extension packs really, really quickly? 00:12:13.790 --> 00:12:16.940 align:middle line:84% And how do we create stories, worlds, technology that's just 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:20.040 align:middle line:84% going to be able to anticipate all that. 00:12:20.040 --> 00:12:22.830 align:middle line:84% There's a game up there now on Xbox Live Arcade called Monday 00:12:22.830 --> 00:12:25.950 align:middle line:90% Night Combat. 00:12:25.950 --> 00:12:29.810 align:middle line:84% And they did some of the old clever hacks to basically 00:12:29.810 --> 00:12:33.980 align:middle line:84% allow them to update the game on a week to week basis. 00:12:33.980 --> 00:12:37.300 align:middle line:84% Whereas typically that kind of a certification that's 00:12:37.300 --> 00:12:39.630 align:middle line:84% required from Microsoft is really expensive. 00:12:39.630 --> 00:12:42.880 align:middle line:84% Every time you want to release a new version, you have to put 00:12:42.880 --> 00:12:45.780 align:middle line:84% it through an entire rigorous QA testing schedule, again. 00:12:45.780 --> 00:12:48.360 align:middle line:84% But they came up with some technology that let them make 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:51.190 align:middle line:84% at least game tuning changes on the fly without having to 00:12:51.190 --> 00:12:54.410 align:middle line:84% go through the Microsoft testing series. 00:12:54.410 --> 00:12:57.170 align:middle line:84% So it's not technically releasing the sequel but they 00:12:57.170 --> 00:12:58.730 align:middle line:84% were very much thinking about how do we keep 00:12:58.730 --> 00:13:01.290 align:middle line:90% updating this game. 00:13:01.290 --> 00:13:05.550 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't be surprised if Steam started off as that. 00:13:05.550 --> 00:13:08.970 align:middle line:84% There's a battle net kind of started off as just an easy 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:11.725 align:middle line:84% way for them to get up patches and to keep tuning this game, 00:13:11.725 --> 00:13:14.505 align:middle line:84% and eventually someone involved decides, hey, we can 00:13:14.505 --> 00:13:15.780 align:middle line:90% sell games this way. 00:13:15.780 --> 00:13:18.314 align:middle line:90% And launch was kind of bumpy. 00:13:18.314 --> 00:13:20.090 align:middle line:90% But it's fine now. 00:13:20.090 --> 00:13:23.710 align:middle line:90% 00:13:23.710 --> 00:13:27.960 align:middle line:84% There is one thing which the book didn't mention which is 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:31.150 align:middle line:84% the reboot, the sort of franchise reboot. 00:13:31.150 --> 00:13:36.400 align:middle line:84% This can sometimes happen when you have a publisher who's got 00:13:36.400 --> 00:13:40.060 align:middle line:84% control of an RP that kind of floundered halfway. 00:13:40.060 --> 00:13:44.070 align:middle line:84% Maybe there was a bad execution on creation and 00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:45.510 align:middle line:90% possible circumstance. 00:13:45.510 --> 00:13:47.750 align:middle line:84% Or they just play out the formula to death. 00:13:47.750 --> 00:13:51.000 align:middle line:84% And then they want to try to get a new batch of fans, a few 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.630 align:middle line:84% people who liked the original one. 00:13:53.630 --> 00:13:58.840 align:middle line:84% And I was talking with the Tomb Raider game where they're 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:00.180 align:middle line:90% just trying to-- 00:14:00.180 --> 00:14:02.970 align:middle line:84% they've rebooted the Tomb Raider franchise several 00:14:02.970 --> 00:14:07.120 align:middle line:84% times, at this point, each time trying to say, OK, you've 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.290 align:middle line:84% probably heard from Tomb Raider from the huge amount of 00:14:09.290 --> 00:14:11.140 align:middle line:84% advertising that we've done when you may not have actually 00:14:11.140 --> 00:14:12.830 align:middle line:84% liked the previous versions of the games. 00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:14.410 align:middle line:84% And we're doing to reboot this franchise by making a 00:14:14.410 --> 00:14:17.800 align:middle line:84% different game in that same world. 00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:21.010 align:middle line:84% In Tomb Raider we'll use characters and we'll use the 00:14:21.010 --> 00:14:24.690 align:middle line:84% fiction, but we'll change the game play significantly. 00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:27.180 align:middle line:84% Because we're not going after the old fans anymore. 00:14:27.180 --> 00:14:30.320 align:middle line:90% We're going after a new batch. 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:36.080 align:middle line:84% It's probably about the same technical challenge as 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.020 align:middle line:84% updating, as trying to make a sequel for a 00:14:38.020 --> 00:14:40.800 align:middle line:90% completely new platform. 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:42.310 align:middle line:84% Because they're basically having to write everything 00:14:42.310 --> 00:14:43.900 align:middle line:90% from scratch. 00:14:43.900 --> 00:14:46.360 align:middle line:84% But the good news, of course, is that all that previous 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:52.254 align:middle line:84% advertising that you did a decade ago still works. 00:14:52.254 --> 00:14:53.760 align:middle line:90% Let me think of-- 00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:56.840 align:middle line:84% Can anyone think of a good example of a good reboot? 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:00.420 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is Mario 64 a reboot? 00:15:00.420 --> 00:15:00.895 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No. 00:15:00.895 --> 00:15:04.300 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I think it was seen to a lot of people that 00:15:04.300 --> 00:15:09.440 align:middle line:84% it was because it wasn't clearly a sequel to any of the 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:10.890 align:middle line:90% previous Mario games. 00:15:10.890 --> 00:15:12.820 align:middle line:84% And it was kind of Nintendo kind of 00:15:12.820 --> 00:15:13.370 align:middle line:90% saying, hey, it's not-- 00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:14.540 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's not really a clone of anything. 00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:15.555 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It's not really-- 00:15:15.555 --> 00:15:19.460 align:middle line:84% It invented a lot of things for the first time, in fact. 00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:23.740 align:middle line:84% I would say that Mario 64 and, of course, the way how they 00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:27.710 align:middle line:84% branded it, they didn't brand it Super Mario World, what 5 00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:31.220 align:middle line:84% or Super Mario 4 or anything, they called it Mario 64 to 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:32.915 align:middle line:84% sort of distinguish it from some of the-- 00:15:32.915 --> 00:15:35.382 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I would almost call IT an upgrade more than a 00:15:35.382 --> 00:15:36.120 align:middle line:90% reboot, though. 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:40.600 align:middle line:84% Because it was mostly just a move from 2D to 3D. 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.070 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It was more than that, I think. 00:15:42.070 --> 00:15:43.465 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It's a good challenge because to the 00:15:43.465 --> 00:15:47.260 align:middle line:84% player it may seem like it's not that but for a technical 00:15:47.260 --> 00:15:50.220 align:middle line:84% point of view they had to continue to reinvent how Mario 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:55.110 align:middle line:84% moves, the way how Mario jumps frankly, the way how the 00:15:55.110 --> 00:15:58.520 align:middle line:84% camera moves, it never used to be a huge problem in the 2D 00:15:58.520 --> 00:16:02.860 align:middle line:84% games, but was the primary thing that they've managed to 00:16:02.860 --> 00:16:09.070 align:middle line:84% figure out how to get working in 3D was the camera. 00:16:09.070 --> 00:16:11.780 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't be surprised if their marketing pitched it a 00:16:11.780 --> 00:16:13.480 align:middle line:90% little bit like a sequel. 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.700 align:middle line:84% But it was also very, very clear of this is going to be a 00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:17.660 align:middle line:84% whole new generation, you've never played Mario on anything 00:16:17.660 --> 00:16:21.110 align:middle line:84% like this, so don't expect your previous Mario experience 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:23.935 align:middle line:90% to carry over necessarily. 00:16:23.935 --> 00:16:26.290 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was going to say Metroid, as well. 00:16:26.290 --> 00:16:26.885 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Metroid Prime? 00:16:26.885 --> 00:16:27.510 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:16:27.510 --> 00:16:30.250 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah, that's a really good example. 00:16:30.250 --> 00:16:33.360 align:middle line:84% In fact, Metroid Prime was an instance where they gave the 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.630 align:middle line:84% franchise to a completely different developer. 00:16:35.630 --> 00:16:38.550 align:middle line:84% Previously, it's all internal Nintendo. 00:16:38.550 --> 00:16:42.530 align:middle line:84% And then Nintendo went to a western developer, Retro 00:16:42.530 --> 00:16:46.540 align:middle line:84% Studios over in Texas and basically had them make the 00:16:46.540 --> 00:16:49.150 align:middle line:84% first western version of Metroid. 00:16:49.150 --> 00:16:52.090 align:middle line:84% But they had a very heavy hand in controlling that. 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:53.780 align:middle line:90% Whereas-- 00:16:53.780 --> 00:16:55.610 align:middle line:84% I'm not sure we're going to be playing this later-- 00:16:55.610 --> 00:16:59.520 align:middle line:84% Castlevania: Lords of Shadow which just came out, kind of 00:16:59.520 --> 00:17:01.550 align:middle line:90% went the other way around. 00:17:01.550 --> 00:17:04.650 align:middle line:84% Western developers, a Spanish developer, decided to make a 00:17:04.650 --> 00:17:06.780 align:middle line:90% Castlevania clone. 00:17:06.780 --> 00:17:07.839 align:middle line:90% They loved Castlevania. 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:09.710 align:middle line:84% And they were going to make a game that was just like 00:17:09.710 --> 00:17:12.050 align:middle line:84% Castlevania but they don't call it Castlevania because 00:17:12.050 --> 00:17:13.510 align:middle line:84% they didn't have the rights for it. 00:17:13.510 --> 00:17:16.599 align:middle line:84% And they showed it off at E3 or something, and Konami 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:18.710 align:middle line:84% basically said, why don't we just turn this into a 00:17:18.710 --> 00:17:23.999 align:middle line:84% Castlevania game, Hideo Kojima to [INAUDIBLE] 00:17:23.999 --> 00:17:26.260 align:middle line:90% making it work. 00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:27.253 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It must have been their dream come true. 00:17:27.253 --> 00:17:28.255 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: That was probably 00:17:28.255 --> 00:17:29.530 align:middle line:90% their dream come true. 00:17:29.530 --> 00:17:30.700 align:middle line:84% That was probably what they wanted. 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:34.040 align:middle line:84% And you had the advantage of the all the Castlevania fans 00:17:34.040 --> 00:17:37.210 align:middle line:84% now saying OK, this is going to be in canon, if we liked 00:17:37.210 --> 00:17:38.810 align:middle line:84% Castlevania, we'll probably like this one, which is 00:17:38.810 --> 00:17:40.590 align:middle line:84% exactly what they were trying to get across. 00:17:40.590 --> 00:17:44.020 align:middle line:84% It's like imagine the people who made Torchlight being 00:17:44.020 --> 00:17:45.555 align:middle line:84% approached from Blizzard saying why don't we just turn 00:17:45.555 --> 00:17:47.350 align:middle line:90% this into Diablo 3. 00:17:47.350 --> 00:17:49.120 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE:A bunch of people who made Torchlight were from 00:17:49.120 --> 00:17:50.560 align:middle line:90% Blizzard, right? 00:17:50.560 --> 00:17:51.340 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I wouldn't be surprised. 00:17:51.340 --> 00:17:52.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Were they from the Diablo team? 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:52.980 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I wouldn't be surprised. 00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:55.110 align:middle line:84% In the same sense that a lot of people who built GuildWars 00:17:55.110 --> 00:17:57.300 align:middle line:84% were from the World of Warcraft team. 00:17:57.300 --> 00:18:03.640 align:middle line:84% So that's less an issue of sequels and more an issue of 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:04.910 align:middle line:84% that's just how the game industry works. 00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:06.925 align:middle line:84% People move from project to project and carry 00:18:06.925 --> 00:18:07.590 align:middle line:90% knowledge with them. 00:18:07.590 --> 00:18:09.850 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Like Call of Duty was [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 00:18:09.850 --> 00:18:11.906 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Yes, Call of Duty, yes and-- 00:18:11.906 --> 00:18:12.800 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They got tired of it and were 00:18:12.800 --> 00:18:14.660 align:middle line:90% like we can do better. 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:17.050 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: That's an interesting discussion of 00:18:17.050 --> 00:18:20.700 align:middle line:84% instead of sequels you have companies making effectively 00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:23.480 align:middle line:84% clones competing against the original franchise. 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:25.920 align:middle line:84% And in this product case they're trying-- 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:31.235 align:middle line:84% there's people who left EA on 2015, I believe, and then they 00:18:31.235 --> 00:18:32.400 align:middle line:90% started Infinity Ward. 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.010 align:middle line:84% And they made a game that basically 00:18:34.010 --> 00:18:35.080 align:middle line:90% competed with the original. 00:18:35.080 --> 00:18:39.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The first Call of Duty was so ridiculously good, 00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:42.670 align:middle line:84% at least, it marked me when I played it the first time. 00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:45.040 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But it's very clearly trying to be Medal of 00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:46.150 align:middle line:90% Honor the next version. 00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:49.970 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, clearly, yeah, no, of course, of course. 00:18:49.970 --> 00:18:53.380 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So that's an interesting situation where 00:18:53.380 --> 00:18:54.960 align:middle line:84% it's hard to be a spiritual successor when you're 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.420 align:middle line:84% competing against the original product. 00:18:57.420 --> 00:18:58.960 align:middle line:90% But you can think of them-- 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:00.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: BioWare did that with Dragon-- 00:19:00.040 --> 00:19:02.322 align:middle line:84% I mean not competing against [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 00:19:02.322 --> 00:19:03.768 align:middle line:84% Dragon Age because they don't have the rights to 00:19:03.768 --> 00:19:05.470 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game anymore. 00:19:05.470 --> 00:19:08.780 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Well, Dragon Age is more of a DND clone, I 00:19:08.780 --> 00:19:10.150 align:middle line:90% would say, which-- 00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:12.590 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:19:12.590 --> 00:19:16.382 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Empire Earth reinvented itself with-- 00:19:16.382 --> 00:19:16.860 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Which one? 00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:17.370 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --with Empire Earth-- 00:19:17.370 --> 00:19:17.897 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Empire Earth. 00:19:17.897 --> 00:19:19.120 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: --with zero success. 00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:21.220 align:middle line:90% It didn't do [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:23.090 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I kind of lost track of that series. 00:19:23.090 --> 00:19:25.100 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In the whole game, the first game was like, you 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:27.120 align:middle line:90% can go through 15 ages. 00:19:27.120 --> 00:19:29.430 align:middle line:84% You can literally play a game against someone and go from 00:19:29.430 --> 00:19:32.940 align:middle line:84% prehistoric units to nukes in the same game with everything 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:33.620 align:middle line:90% in between. 00:19:33.620 --> 00:19:35.916 align:middle line:84% And then they released the sequel which, I think, 00:19:35.916 --> 00:19:37.690 align:middle line:84% overseas and then it's like they [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:39.510 align:middle line:84% themselves and go, we're going to simplify everything, 00:19:39.510 --> 00:19:41.819 align:middle line:84% there's just going to be four ages, kind of like in Ancient 00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:44.720 align:middle line:84% Empires, and we're not going to have this massive 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.210 align:middle line:90% progression. 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:46.525 align:middle line:84% And they tried to simplify everything. 00:19:46.525 --> 00:19:47.295 align:middle line:90% And it totally bombed. 00:19:47.295 --> 00:19:48.545 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I think that's a rebooting. 00:19:48.545 --> 00:19:51.340 align:middle line:90% 00:19:51.340 --> 00:19:55.020 align:middle line:84% But I think that's a reboot gone wrong. 00:19:55.020 --> 00:19:59.730 align:middle line:84% That's a, our original game is not selling well enough among 00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:03.620 align:middle line:84% new players, maybe, and it's not entirely satisfying our 00:20:03.620 --> 00:20:05.720 align:middle line:84% old fans, so we're going to take this franchise that we 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.930 align:middle line:84% advertised really, really well, and we're going to make 00:20:08.930 --> 00:20:11.700 align:middle line:84% it completely, effectively a new game, maybe with the same 00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:14.540 align:middle line:84% theme but a new game that targeted at 00:20:14.540 --> 00:20:15.740 align:middle line:90% a new set of players. 00:20:15.740 --> 00:20:16.430 align:middle line:90% Sometimes it works. 00:20:16.430 --> 00:20:18.240 align:middle line:90% Sometimes it bombs. 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:21.600 align:middle line:84% Might and Magic released a game called Clash of Heroes, 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:25.590 align:middle line:84% Might and Magic Clash of Heroes for the Nintendo DS. 00:20:25.590 --> 00:20:26.960 align:middle line:84% Who's played any of the original 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:27.745 align:middle line:90% Might and Magic games? 00:20:27.745 --> 00:20:31.622 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Different from Heroes of Might and Magic? 00:20:31.622 --> 00:20:33.500 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Either of them, actually. 00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:35.370 align:middle line:84% So who's played Heroes of Might and Magic? 00:20:35.370 --> 00:20:36.944 align:middle line:90% Can you describe the game? 00:20:36.944 --> 00:20:38.186 align:middle line:90% What's it like? 00:20:38.186 --> 00:20:39.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Want to go, [? Fred? ?] 00:20:39.430 --> 00:20:43.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, it's like essentially just a turn based 00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:46.710 align:middle line:84% strategy game where you have cities and you have heroes. 00:20:46.710 --> 00:20:49.350 align:middle line:90% And these heroes lead armies. 00:20:49.350 --> 00:20:53.310 align:middle line:84% And you encounter other smaller armies and try to 00:20:53.310 --> 00:20:54.340 align:middle line:90% defeat them and stuff. 00:20:54.340 --> 00:20:56.430 align:middle line:90% And you have-- 00:20:56.430 --> 00:20:58.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] city, you start with-- 00:20:58.040 --> 00:20:59.020 align:middle line:90% you have an economy. 00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:02.110 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, you have an economy and you build things 00:21:02.110 --> 00:21:06.020 align:middle line:84% in your city that can then produce better units for your 00:21:06.020 --> 00:21:07.075 align:middle line:90% armies and stuff. 00:21:07.075 --> 00:21:09.350 align:middle line:84% You can take over other cities and-- 00:21:09.350 --> 00:21:11.150 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:12.770 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Like Civilization, I would say. 00:21:12.770 --> 00:21:18.100 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, it's like Civilization but if you took 00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:19.000 align:middle line:90% Civilization and removed 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.990 align:middle line:90% everything that wasn't military. 00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:21.882 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:21:21.882 --> 00:21:23.980 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And that was what played out and gave it its 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:26.970 align:middle line:90% distinctive arena-- 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:27.530 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:21:27.530 --> 00:21:27.960 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: --turn based-- 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You're trying to do stuff like battlefields where 00:21:29.470 --> 00:21:32.680 align:middle line:84% the turn based, you have your units on one side and the 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:34.520 align:middle line:84% opponent's units on the other side. 00:21:34.520 --> 00:21:36.800 align:middle line:90% And you move units together. 00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:41.712 align:middle line:84% So if you have pikemen and bowmen, you have the clump of 00:21:41.712 --> 00:21:45.380 align:middle line:84% all bowmen who then move together as a unit. 00:21:45.380 --> 00:21:49.044 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So Clash of Heroes, a Nintendo DS game in 00:21:49.044 --> 00:21:52.410 align:middle line:84% the Might and Magic series, and what they did was, they 00:21:52.410 --> 00:21:53.690 align:middle line:90% made a match three game. 00:21:53.690 --> 00:21:55.580 align:middle line:90% They made a game where you-- 00:21:55.580 --> 00:21:56.650 align:middle line:90% it's like Bejeweled. 00:21:56.650 --> 00:22:00.550 align:middle line:84% You take three bowmen, put them in a row, and then they 00:22:00.550 --> 00:22:03.490 align:middle line:84% become a bunch of bowmen who are going to attack. 00:22:03.490 --> 00:22:06.605 align:middle line:84% So they get the same idea of let's take-- 00:22:06.605 --> 00:22:08.990 align:middle line:84% and because the Nintendo DS has two screens, so the 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:12.160 align:middle line:84% enemy's armies are on one and yours are on the other. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.405 align:middle line:84% It's kind of like sending troops up and down. 00:22:14.405 --> 00:22:16.700 align:middle line:84% But the game play's dramatically different. 00:22:16.700 --> 00:22:20.080 align:middle line:84% It's effectively a franchise reboot. 00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:24.740 align:middle line:84% They want to get the same idea of leading massive armies 00:22:24.740 --> 00:22:25.560 align:middle line:90% against each other. 00:22:25.560 --> 00:22:28.122 align:middle line:84% I think they take some of the characters, at least some of 00:22:28.122 --> 00:22:30.277 align:middle line:84% the technologies that came with the original Heroes of 00:22:30.277 --> 00:22:32.120 align:middle line:90% Might and Magic. 00:22:32.120 --> 00:22:34.260 align:middle line:90% But that's as far as it got. 00:22:34.260 --> 00:22:36.090 align:middle line:90% Everything else they changed. 00:22:36.090 --> 00:22:38.730 align:middle line:84% Because they were going for a completely different audience, 00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:41.580 align:middle line:84% the assumption being Nintendo DS players liked match three 00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:46.474 align:middle line:84% games like Bejeweled, actually really good. 00:22:46.474 --> 00:22:48.784 align:middle line:84% I'd encourage it if you like match three games. 00:22:48.784 --> 00:22:51.805 align:middle line:90% 00:22:51.805 --> 00:22:57.520 align:middle line:84% I was going to put Sarah on the spot for having worked on 00:22:57.520 --> 00:23:01.380 align:middle line:84% Thief II, and Thief Gold, and Thief 2 Gold, 00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.596 align:middle line:90% and a number of releases. 00:23:04.596 --> 00:23:07.548 align:middle line:84% But maybe we can start telling us a little bit about your 00:23:07.548 --> 00:23:09.024 align:middle line:90% original involvement on Thief. 00:23:09.024 --> 00:23:09.516 align:middle line:90% SARAH: Sure. 00:23:09.516 --> 00:23:11.976 align:middle line:84% Do you want me to stand up to actually hear me? 00:23:11.976 --> 00:23:14.928 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I can bring the mike closer. 00:23:14.928 --> 00:23:19.848 align:middle line:84% SARAH: So Thief: The Dark Project, I came on as actually 00:23:19.848 --> 00:23:21.324 align:middle line:90% as team tester. 00:23:21.324 --> 00:23:24.276 align:middle line:84% Part way through it I became community manager, 00:23:24.276 --> 00:23:25.260 align:middle line:90% essentially. 00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:30.485 align:middle line:84% And then I actually stepped into a design role for about 00:23:30.485 --> 00:23:33.722 align:middle line:84% the second half of the project. 00:23:33.722 --> 00:23:37.374 align:middle line:84% And I continued to work as a designer and project manager 00:23:37.374 --> 00:23:40.053 align:middle line:90% on Thief II and Thief Gold. 00:23:40.053 --> 00:23:42.020 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: What were you designing in Thief? 00:23:42.020 --> 00:23:44.332 align:middle line:84% SARAH: In Thief I, I was pretty specifically designing 00:23:44.332 --> 00:23:46.492 align:middle line:84% game play for a level that someone 00:23:46.492 --> 00:23:47.573 align:middle line:90% else had already built. 00:23:47.573 --> 00:23:50.360 align:middle line:84% Building levels took a lot longer than putting in game 00:23:50.360 --> 00:23:52.812 align:middle line:84% play, at least from my point of view. 00:23:52.812 --> 00:23:54.176 align:middle line:84% I believe the person who built it thought that building 00:23:54.176 --> 00:23:56.780 align:middle line:84% levels was a lot faster than laying game play. 00:23:56.780 --> 00:23:58.080 align:middle line:90% So it was a good combination. 00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:00.630 align:middle line:84% But it was built by an artist who didn't have the scripting 00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:04.226 align:middle line:84% experience or the testing visions to go through and make 00:24:04.226 --> 00:24:05.736 align:middle line:84% sure that all the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] for the game 00:24:05.736 --> 00:24:06.840 align:middle line:90% play experience is working. 00:24:06.840 --> 00:24:08.880 align:middle line:84% So I was basically handed a level and 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.105 align:middle line:90% said, OK, make it fun. 00:24:11.105 --> 00:24:13.620 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Now Thief is a first person stealth game. 00:24:13.620 --> 00:24:16.312 align:middle line:84% Basically you're looking through the eyes of a thief 00:24:16.312 --> 00:24:18.850 align:middle line:84% who is not physically all that robust. 00:24:18.850 --> 00:24:20.806 align:middle line:90% But he can sneak. 00:24:20.806 --> 00:24:23.061 align:middle line:84% And he can shoot arrows, usually at 00:24:23.061 --> 00:24:26.790 align:middle line:90% your back, and hide. 00:24:26.790 --> 00:24:30.905 align:middle line:84% SARAH: And the AI is, unlike in most games where the AI is 00:24:30.905 --> 00:24:34.750 align:middle line:84% tuned sort of aha, we noticed you, we charge you, the AI is 00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:39.090 align:middle line:84% carefully tuned to both tell the player if the AI sort of 00:24:39.090 --> 00:24:42.530 align:middle line:84% notices you, if the AI thinks he's looking for you and is 00:24:42.530 --> 00:24:45.900 align:middle line:84% looking for, and if he's actually coming after you. 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.574 align:middle line:84% So that a player who makes a noise while sneaking up on 00:24:48.574 --> 00:24:50.860 align:middle line:84% them will realize that, oh, he noticed that, I should go be 00:24:50.860 --> 00:24:52.820 align:middle line:90% more quiet. 00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:56.254 align:middle line:84% So the AI feedback and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] was actually 00:24:56.254 --> 00:24:58.170 align:middle line:84% really pretty important to playing experience. 00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:01.935 align:middle line:84% If you didn't give the player an avenue to approach a guard 00:25:01.935 --> 00:25:05.460 align:middle line:84% from behind or to sneak up on them in some way, you'll 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:08.150 align:middle line:84% pretty much guarantee the player will get killed. 00:25:08.150 --> 00:25:12.300 align:middle line:84% Because the player could not, in fact, take one guard on one 00:25:12.300 --> 00:25:14.950 align:middle line:90% to one many times. 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:17.170 align:middle line:84% You could probably kill one guard face to face, but then 00:25:17.170 --> 00:25:19.368 align:middle line:84% he'd be sufficiently wounded that the second fight would 00:25:19.368 --> 00:25:20.470 align:middle line:90% finish him off. 00:25:20.470 --> 00:25:24.033 align:middle line:84% So you had to be giving the player channels and ways to 00:25:24.033 --> 00:25:26.911 align:middle line:84% sneak up and places to hide and things like that if you 00:25:26.911 --> 00:25:27.964 align:middle line:84% wanted to have an interesting game and a challenging game. 00:25:27.964 --> 00:25:29.587 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And that's the game play we say you're 00:25:29.587 --> 00:25:29.770 align:middle line:90% talking about. 00:25:29.770 --> 00:25:31.276 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Those are the game plays we've been talking 00:25:31.276 --> 00:25:34.850 align:middle line:84% about, yeah, placing AIs determining their path, 00:25:34.850 --> 00:25:36.920 align:middle line:84% putting-- this actually particularly had a lot of 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:38.180 align:middle line:90% traps in it-- 00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:42.470 align:middle line:84% so creating the traps and giving clues to the player in 00:25:42.470 --> 00:25:45.350 align:middle line:84% games so that they could, A, either notice the trap was 00:25:45.350 --> 00:25:49.600 align:middle line:84% there before getting hit by it and finding some other way to 00:25:49.600 --> 00:25:55.092 align:middle line:84% trigger it, or notice that it was there or notice it was 00:25:55.092 --> 00:25:57.690 align:middle line:84% there and then discover how to get out of it. 00:25:57.690 --> 00:26:00.423 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Thief is a 199-- 00:26:00.423 --> 00:26:03.900 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Oh God, 19-- ancient at this point. 00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:04.820 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: 199-- 00:26:04.820 --> 00:26:07.690 align:middle line:84% SARAH: 199--, 1996, it was released around the 00:26:07.690 --> 00:26:09.186 align:middle line:90% same time Doom was. 00:26:09.186 --> 00:26:13.010 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And it's pretty impressive because in Doom you 00:26:13.010 --> 00:26:14.444 align:middle line:90% can't look up, I believe. 00:26:14.444 --> 00:26:15.410 align:middle line:84% You can shoot up but you can't-- 00:26:15.410 --> 00:26:16.630 align:middle line:90% SARAH: Yeah. 00:26:16.630 --> 00:26:18.440 align:middle line:90% I think you can crouch. 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.160 align:middle line:90% You can lean around corners. 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:23.467 align:middle line:84% You can, in fact, shoot your bow while 00:26:23.467 --> 00:26:24.702 align:middle line:90% leaning around corners. 00:26:24.702 --> 00:26:28.670 align:middle line:84% And, yeah, you can look up and down and all around. 00:26:28.670 --> 00:26:32.768 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So that's Thief I. What happens when Thief II 00:26:32.768 --> 00:26:35.160 align:middle line:90% gets approved? 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:36.820 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Well, the first thing I had to do was convince people 00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:38.500 align:middle line:90% they wanted to do Thief II. 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.750 align:middle line:84% Because while Thief was a great game and it's actually 00:26:40.750 --> 00:26:44.705 align:middle line:84% sold fairly well over time, its initial sales were not 00:26:44.705 --> 00:26:45.550 align:middle line:90% what publishers want to see. 00:26:45.550 --> 00:26:47.600 align:middle line:84% Because the initial sales a publisher wants to see is, oh 00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:50.570 align:middle line:84% my God, it sold 10 million copies, awesome. 00:26:50.570 --> 00:26:52.870 align:middle line:84% Instead what we did was we sold a fairly good first 00:26:52.870 --> 00:26:56.110 align:middle line:84% initial sell through and then it just kind of kept going. 00:26:56.110 --> 00:26:57.830 align:middle line:84% So the first thing we had to do was convince them that, 00:26:57.830 --> 00:26:59.580 align:middle line:84% yes, Thief II would be a good idea, enough people are 00:26:59.580 --> 00:27:02.040 align:middle line:84% continuing to buy Thief I. Those same people will all run 00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:06.310 align:middle line:84% out and buy Thief II on the very first day. 00:27:06.310 --> 00:27:08.884 align:middle line:84% And the way we did that was, first of all, taking a look at 00:27:08.884 --> 00:27:10.970 align:middle line:84% forums and saying, hey look, people are pretty excited 00:27:10.970 --> 00:27:11.590 align:middle line:90% about this. 00:27:11.590 --> 00:27:12.460 align:middle line:90% They're enjoying it. 00:27:12.460 --> 00:27:13.380 align:middle line:90% It's got good lasting power. 00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:14.770 align:middle line:84% Our fans are going to stick around to play with it a 00:27:14.770 --> 00:27:15.890 align:middle line:90% second time. 00:27:15.890 --> 00:27:19.080 align:middle line:84% And that was sort of a marketing end analysis that 00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.560 align:middle line:90% led into a publisher. 00:27:20.560 --> 00:27:22.930 align:middle line:84% And the other part was saying, OK, what are the improvements 00:27:22.930 --> 00:27:23.970 align:middle line:84% we're going to make to this game? 00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:26.550 align:middle line:84% How are we going to change this game to make it better 00:27:26.550 --> 00:27:29.127 align:middle line:84% than Thief I while still taking advantage of 00:27:29.127 --> 00:27:29.690 align:middle line:90% everything we did? 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:31.890 align:middle line:84% So we created basically a big design doc with, here are the 00:27:31.890 --> 00:27:34.020 align:middle line:84% areas that we thought we could have done better in Thief I. 00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:34.720 align:middle line:84% Here's what we're going to improve. 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:36.810 align:middle line:84% And here are the changes we're going to make. 00:27:36.810 --> 00:27:38.770 align:middle line:84% So we're not going to make Thief I, again. 00:27:38.770 --> 00:27:41.850 align:middle line:84% We're going to take what Thief I was, add some improvements 00:27:41.850 --> 00:27:45.840 align:middle line:84% to it, make a deeper story, and hopefully get a more 00:27:45.840 --> 00:27:48.340 align:middle line:84% variety of game play was what we actually ended up aiming 00:27:48.340 --> 00:27:51.270 align:middle line:90% for in our initial docs. 00:27:51.270 --> 00:27:55.720 align:middle line:84% We wanted to give Garrett additional abilities, 00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:56.060 align:middle line:90% vary the game play. 00:27:56.060 --> 00:27:59.400 align:middle line:84% The game play in Thief I was all speed. 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.200 align:middle line:84% We tried to have some additional types of missions 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:04.210 align:middle line:90% in Thief II. 00:28:04.210 --> 00:28:07.070 align:middle line:84% But there was a little more face to face fighting. 00:28:07.070 --> 00:28:09.790 align:middle line:84% There was a little more subterfuge. 00:28:09.790 --> 00:28:13.187 align:middle line:84% Instead of just sneaking around, we also had, OK, so 00:28:13.187 --> 00:28:15.410 align:middle line:84% now you need to disguise yourself as someone and sneak 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:17.720 align:middle line:90% in, sneak out again. 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:20.520 align:middle line:84% You need to pass for them while getting a goal done and 00:28:20.520 --> 00:28:21.150 align:middle line:90% things like that. 00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:23.800 align:middle line:84% So we tried to find, what are additional stealth and 00:28:23.800 --> 00:28:26.580 align:middle line:84% subterfuge issues and game play we can have? 00:28:26.580 --> 00:28:29.446 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: How many of those features in Thief II 00:28:29.446 --> 00:28:32.804 align:middle line:84% were inherited from dropped features from Thief I? 00:28:32.804 --> 00:28:35.870 align:middle line:90% 00:28:35.870 --> 00:28:37.920 align:middle line:84% SARAH: A lot of them inherited from dropped ideas from Thief 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.450 align:middle line:84% I. But when they first started designing Thief-- and I was 00:28:40.450 --> 00:28:44.007 align:middle line:84% not on the initial Thief design team so now I'm making 00:28:44.007 --> 00:28:47.230 align:middle line:84% up what they were talking about. 00:28:47.230 --> 00:28:48.430 align:middle line:84% It wasn't clear that it was going to be-- 00:28:48.430 --> 00:28:50.930 align:middle line:84% It was sort of like, it's going to be a stealthy game, 00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:52.810 align:middle line:84% but we hadn't actually defined what stealthy 00:28:52.810 --> 00:28:54.630 align:middle line:90% game play was yet. 00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:58.570 align:middle line:84% So it was Thief I that kind of told us what, this is what 00:28:58.570 --> 00:28:59.900 align:middle line:90% stealth game play that works. 00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:02.087 align:middle line:84% And once we found the one or two things that worked, we 00:29:02.087 --> 00:29:03.710 align:middle line:84% kind of went with that and put in that. 00:29:03.710 --> 00:29:05.750 align:middle line:84% It was in Thief II, we got to play around what are some 00:29:05.750 --> 00:29:07.260 align:middle line:84% other ideas of stealthy game play? 00:29:07.260 --> 00:29:10.290 align:middle line:84% What are some other ways to trick people into [INAUDIBLE]? 00:29:10.290 --> 00:29:13.120 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And people that played Metal Gear Solid or any 00:29:13.120 --> 00:29:15.950 align:middle line:84% of the games in Metal Gear Solid series, it owes a lot to 00:29:15.950 --> 00:29:19.200 align:middle line:84% Thief, especially the really, really noisy end you see. 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.853 align:middle line:84% It wasn't, I heard something, I wonder what's over there. 00:29:21.853 --> 00:29:23.970 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:29:23.970 --> 00:29:25.200 align:middle line:90% SARAH: DS-X also. 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.920 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But DS-X is also [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.450 align:middle line:84% SARAH: But that's what I'm saying is that DS-X also 00:29:29.450 --> 00:29:32.250 align:middle line:84% actually took a lot of Thief's lessons and went on with them 00:29:32.250 --> 00:29:32.708 align:middle line:90% from there. 00:29:32.708 --> 00:29:34.824 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Again, a lot of people working on 00:29:34.824 --> 00:29:36.020 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 00:29:36.020 --> 00:29:39.100 align:middle line:84% SARAH: DS-X2, more DS-X2, but yeah. 00:29:39.100 --> 00:29:42.110 align:middle line:84% Looking Glass folded and went out of business. 00:29:42.110 --> 00:29:46.060 align:middle line:84% And a lot of people moved to Austin to then work on Thief 00:29:46.060 --> 00:29:50.200 align:middle line:84% III and DS-X2 and those projects there. 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:51.174 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I have a question 00:29:51.174 --> 00:29:55.070 align:middle line:90% about the Gold version. 00:29:55.070 --> 00:29:56.287 align:middle line:90% SARAH: The Gold version? 00:29:56.287 --> 00:30:00.340 align:middle line:84% The Gold versions of the games are really a way to try to 00:30:00.340 --> 00:30:02.910 align:middle line:84% convince, from the marketing point of view, is a way to 00:30:02.910 --> 00:30:04.540 align:middle line:84% convince players to buy the same material again. 00:30:04.540 --> 00:30:08.300 align:middle line:90% 00:30:08.300 --> 00:30:11.180 align:middle line:84% I'm being a little cynical here, and I admit that. 00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:14.570 align:middle line:84% But we added new, we did, in fact, add, what we did was, we 00:30:14.570 --> 00:30:16.800 align:middle line:90% added several new missions. 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:18.090 align:middle line:90% So it was expanded play. 00:30:18.090 --> 00:30:21.216 align:middle line:84% And then we went back and problems that we knew were in 00:30:21.216 --> 00:30:22.730 align:middle line:90% the missions, we fixed them. 00:30:22.730 --> 00:30:25.783 align:middle line:84% And we actually added some richer game play to several of 00:30:25.783 --> 00:30:27.790 align:middle line:84% the missions that, oh God, we have to get this out the door, 00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:29.430 align:middle line:84% we have to get this out the door, this would be so cool if 00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:30.810 align:middle line:84% we could set this up but we don't have time 00:30:30.810 --> 00:30:32.290 align:middle line:90% to, and out it goes. 00:30:32.290 --> 00:30:35.100 align:middle line:84% And so we went back and we touched up 00:30:35.100 --> 00:30:36.310 align:middle line:90% over half of the missions. 00:30:36.310 --> 00:30:37.670 align:middle line:84% We added some additional game play. 00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:39.715 align:middle line:90% We added extra goals. 00:30:39.715 --> 00:30:42.060 align:middle line:84% We took areas where we thought the game play was particularly 00:30:42.060 --> 00:30:45.660 align:middle line:84% weak because we'd gotten rushed on finishing it and we 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:48.870 align:middle line:84% made the levels a bit longer and a little more interesting 00:30:48.870 --> 00:30:50.080 align:middle line:90% in our opinion. 00:30:50.080 --> 00:30:51.910 align:middle line:84% And then we also added three new levels. 00:30:51.910 --> 00:30:54.900 align:middle line:84% And it was kind of a chance, it was a do over. 00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.050 align:middle line:84% We had very limited programming resources so we 00:30:57.050 --> 00:31:00.120 align:middle line:84% didn't really get to add much in the way of new features. 00:31:00.120 --> 00:31:03.250 align:middle line:84% But we were able to go back and tune it and make 00:31:03.250 --> 00:31:05.680 align:middle line:84% significant changes to the levels, to the way that the 00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:08.690 align:middle line:84% guards worked, to the scripting behind the levels. 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:11.030 align:middle line:90% Vin was working on a 3D mod. 00:31:11.030 --> 00:31:14.210 align:middle line:84% There's usually a fair bit the designer can do behind the 00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:18.530 align:middle line:84% walls of telling the AIs what to do and how to think and how 00:31:18.530 --> 00:31:19.460 align:middle line:90% the game play flows. 00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:23.430 align:middle line:84% And Thief, especially, had an extremely rich editor that-- 00:31:23.430 --> 00:31:25.755 align:middle line:84% more powerful, I think, than any other editor I ever worked 00:31:25.755 --> 00:31:29.159 align:middle line:84% with, even though it is now 15 years old, 15 00:31:29.159 --> 00:31:31.370 align:middle line:90% years old, I think. 00:31:31.370 --> 00:31:33.426 align:middle line:84% It's still the most powerful editor for a 00:31:33.426 --> 00:31:36.420 align:middle line:90% designer I have ever seen. 00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:38.930 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So did you feel-- 00:31:38.930 --> 00:31:41.920 align:middle line:90% 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:43.736 align:middle line:84% You mentioned you looked at forums and 00:31:43.736 --> 00:31:44.510 align:middle line:90% you look at fan input. 00:31:44.510 --> 00:31:49.172 align:middle line:84% And how much of that, of what went into making the sequel, 00:31:49.172 --> 00:31:51.160 align:middle line:90% actually came from fan input? 00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.880 align:middle line:84% Or was it just like verifying what you already wanted to do. 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:55.870 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Part of it was to verify what we wanted to do. 00:31:55.870 --> 00:31:57.667 align:middle line:84% Part of it was to verify there was enough interest that 00:31:57.667 --> 00:31:58.540 align:middle line:90% people would want to do it. 00:31:58.540 --> 00:32:00.930 align:middle line:84% Part of it was to see, what did people like most? 00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:03.560 align:middle line:84% Which of the missions did people like most? 00:32:03.560 --> 00:32:06.970 align:middle line:84% Are there any good ideas out there for how to play a game 00:32:06.970 --> 00:32:08.910 align:middle line:84% that we think, yes, they're right, we 00:32:08.910 --> 00:32:09.580 align:middle line:90% never thought of that. 00:32:09.580 --> 00:32:11.780 align:middle line:84% I think that one of the things people talked about a lot was 00:32:11.780 --> 00:32:13.285 align:middle line:90% actually disguise missions. 00:32:13.285 --> 00:32:15.540 align:middle line:84% And I think we had two disguise missions in Thief II 00:32:15.540 --> 00:32:18.393 align:middle line:84% where you're kind of disguising yourself as, no, 00:32:18.393 --> 00:32:21.240 align:middle line:84% no, no, no one looked at me, I'm just another guard walking 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.890 align:middle line:90% around, don't worry about me. 00:32:24.890 --> 00:32:28.040 align:middle line:84% And that was something that we said, oh, yeah, that would be 00:32:28.040 --> 00:32:28.760 align:middle line:90% really cool. 00:32:28.760 --> 00:32:30.990 align:middle line:84% And that's something we had no time to implement for Thief 00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:35.090 align:middle line:84% but, if we're choosing new features to implement in Thief 00:32:35.090 --> 00:32:37.850 align:middle line:84% II, that was actually not an amazingly difficult one. 00:32:37.850 --> 00:32:40.000 align:middle line:84% Because you just, if you've got a way to put a tag on the 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.155 align:middle line:84% play that says, oh, guards don't get upset 00:32:42.155 --> 00:32:43.176 align:middle line:90% when they see you. 00:32:43.176 --> 00:32:46.770 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Did you have a situations where players came 00:32:46.770 --> 00:32:48.490 align:middle line:84% out with exploits that you tried to 00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:50.375 align:middle line:90% address in the Gold version? 00:32:50.375 --> 00:32:52.390 align:middle line:84% SARAH: There were not, no, actually. 00:32:52.390 --> 00:32:54.710 align:middle line:84% There were a couple of places where people found bugs that 00:32:54.710 --> 00:32:58.420 align:middle line:84% were level enders that got people stuck that 00:32:58.420 --> 00:32:59.610 align:middle line:90% we went in and fixed. 00:32:59.610 --> 00:33:03.204 align:middle line:84% There were not a whole lot of exploits that I recall us 00:33:03.204 --> 00:33:04.660 align:middle line:90% trying to go in and fix. 00:33:04.660 --> 00:33:06.755 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So if somebody deliberately found something 00:33:06.755 --> 00:33:08.892 align:middle line:84% that put them on the roof of the castle or something like 00:33:08.892 --> 00:33:11.740 align:middle line:84% that, then you didn't want them trying to [INAUDIBLE]? 00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:12.940 align:middle line:84% SARAH: If it allowed the player to get to a place when 00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:14.760 align:middle line:84% he broke the game, we did try to fix it. 00:33:14.760 --> 00:33:16.400 align:middle line:84% Because we tried to fix anything that was game breaker 00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:18.390 align:middle line:84% where you could get up on the wall and then leap 00:33:18.390 --> 00:33:20.340 align:middle line:90% off into the void. 00:33:20.340 --> 00:33:23.700 align:middle line:84% But sometimes what we'd do is, rather than stop you from 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:26.490 align:middle line:84% getting up on the castle and proving how cool you were, 00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:28.990 align:middle line:84% we'd let you get up on the castle but we'd put in 00:33:28.990 --> 00:33:31.456 align:middle line:84% invisible barriers so you couldn't hurl yourself into 00:33:31.456 --> 00:33:36.280 align:middle line:84% the darkness and then crash the game. 00:33:36.280 --> 00:33:40.190 align:middle line:84% If players enjoyed finding those things so taking them 00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:41.830 align:middle line:84% out doesn't enhance the game play. 00:33:41.830 --> 00:33:44.750 align:middle line:84% And the point of the Gold project was to try to make 00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:47.630 align:middle line:84% something the game play was sufficiently enhanced that it 00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:49.668 align:middle line:84% was worthwhile to go out and buy again. 00:33:49.668 --> 00:33:53.300 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So now we're in an environment where patches 00:33:53.300 --> 00:33:54.815 align:middle line:84% pretty much is downloaded, right? 00:33:54.815 --> 00:33:55.310 align:middle line:90% SARAH: Yeah. 00:33:55.310 --> 00:33:56.795 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: We don't necessarily have that 00:33:56.795 --> 00:33:58.920 align:middle line:90% situation in the year 1996. 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:03.115 align:middle line:84% Is there still a role of [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASES] 00:34:03.115 --> 00:34:03.920 align:middle line:90% new releases? 00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:07.000 align:middle line:84% SARAH: I think now again that would be an expansion pack. 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:08.830 align:middle line:84% I don't think that you would do a Gold version. 00:34:08.830 --> 00:34:10.219 align:middle line:90% You'd do an expansion pack. 00:34:10.219 --> 00:34:13.290 align:middle line:84% And with an expansion pack patch you could fix old 00:34:13.290 --> 00:34:15.970 align:middle line:84% problems and you might introduce new games and of 00:34:15.970 --> 00:34:17.046 align:middle line:84% levels, but I don't think you do it with the 00:34:17.046 --> 00:34:17.876 align:middle line:90% hassle of doing a Gold. 00:34:17.876 --> 00:34:21.355 align:middle line:84% I think you just do an expansion pack. 00:34:21.355 --> 00:34:24.337 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:34:24.337 --> 00:34:27.567 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Questions for Sarah and her 00:34:27.567 --> 00:34:31.295 align:middle line:90% experience on it? 00:34:31.295 --> 00:34:33.655 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Pretty much all of your data points just came 00:34:33.655 --> 00:34:34.790 align:middle line:90% from forums where you-- 00:34:34.790 --> 00:34:36.690 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that was just one of the places 00:34:36.690 --> 00:34:37.124 align:middle line:90% where we looked. 00:34:37.124 --> 00:34:39.949 align:middle line:84% We also looked at sales and continuing sales 00:34:39.949 --> 00:34:40.719 align:middle line:90% and things like that. 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:42.770 align:middle line:84% Like I said, that was actually more of a marketing sales to 00:34:42.770 --> 00:34:46.730 align:middle line:84% sort of do, here's why we think players will like it. 00:34:46.730 --> 00:34:48.420 align:middle line:84% Here's some experiences we got. 00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:50.877 align:middle line:84% Here's the hard data on our sales, how our sales are 00:34:50.877 --> 00:34:55.830 align:middle line:84% continuing, and the fact that while it did not come out and 00:34:55.830 --> 00:35:00.000 align:middle line:84% sell 100,000 copies the first month, it's continuing to sell 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.527 align:middle line:84% 20,000 or 30,000 copies a month, which means that word 00:35:02.527 --> 00:35:05.733 align:middle line:84% of mouth is pretty strong, and people are continuing to go 00:35:05.733 --> 00:35:07.195 align:middle line:84% out and buy it and go out and play it. 00:35:07.195 --> 00:35:10.140 align:middle line:84% And here's the forum where a whole bunch of people are 00:35:10.140 --> 00:35:11.760 align:middle line:90% using the editor released. 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.570 align:middle line:84% And the activity in that forum is going up over time not down 00:35:15.570 --> 00:35:18.260 align:middle line:84% over time which indicates you've got more people coming 00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:20.950 align:middle line:84% into it, people are coming in, they're staying at and using 00:35:20.950 --> 00:35:23.826 align:middle line:84% it, and you've got more people continuing to come in, the 00:35:23.826 --> 00:35:25.300 align:middle line:84% community's growing, which means that there's interest 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:27.270 align:middle line:84% there and there's people who are paying attention to 00:35:27.270 --> 00:35:29.393 align:middle line:84% project and are going to continue to pay attention to 00:35:29.393 --> 00:35:29.720 align:middle line:90% your product. 00:35:29.720 --> 00:35:31.843 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But also it gave for finding 00:35:31.843 --> 00:35:33.150 align:middle line:90% dead ends, for finding-- 00:35:33.150 --> 00:35:36.580 align:middle line:84% You said you fixed some of the dead games [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:35:36.580 --> 00:35:38.445 align:middle line:90% SARAH: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. 00:35:38.445 --> 00:35:40.580 align:middle line:84% Well, the difference between a-- 00:35:40.580 --> 00:35:41.990 align:middle line:90% let me think-- 00:35:41.990 --> 00:35:46.060 align:middle line:84% At our height, we had a 12 person QA department. 00:35:46.060 --> 00:35:51.454 align:middle line:84% And 50,000 users is pretty big. 00:35:51.454 --> 00:35:53.510 align:middle line:84% And we did our best on testing it. 00:35:53.510 --> 00:35:58.340 align:middle line:84% And we had another 10 or 15 helpers through our publisher. 00:35:58.340 --> 00:36:03.330 align:middle line:84% But we had comparatively speaking a ridiculously small 00:36:03.330 --> 00:36:05.270 align:middle line:90% QA department for the game. 00:36:05.270 --> 00:36:06.425 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But then you have the situation where 00:36:06.425 --> 00:36:08.756 align:middle line:84% someone notes something on the forum and then you can verify 00:36:08.756 --> 00:36:09.752 align:middle line:90% it with your QA team. 00:36:09.752 --> 00:36:10.750 align:middle line:90% SARAH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:36:10.750 --> 00:36:12.070 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And you can actually figure out whether 00:36:12.070 --> 00:36:15.017 align:middle line:84% what they were seeing was exactly the problem they were 00:36:15.017 --> 00:36:15.180 align:middle line:90% describing. 00:36:15.180 --> 00:36:17.060 align:middle line:84% SARAH: And it being a solely single player game-- 00:36:17.060 --> 00:36:22.040 align:middle line:84% I know a lot of games do large beta tests where they ask 500, 00:36:22.040 --> 00:36:24.800 align:middle line:84% or 200, or 1,000 people to play the game. 00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:28.418 align:middle line:84% We did not do any external testing like that at all. 00:36:28.418 --> 00:36:28.870 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:36:28.870 --> 00:36:30.080 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And this was also back in the '90s that 00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:30.450 align:middle line:90% wasn't being done. 00:36:30.450 --> 00:36:31.776 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Oh, yeah, it was not the sort of thing that was 00:36:31.776 --> 00:36:35.110 align:middle line:84% really done in the '90s as well. 00:36:35.110 --> 00:36:39.780 align:middle line:84% It's very much a developmental shift. 00:36:39.780 --> 00:36:42.180 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Did you ever explicitly ask on the forums 00:36:42.180 --> 00:36:45.378 align:middle line:84% if there were another sequel, would you buy it? 00:36:45.378 --> 00:36:46.860 align:middle line:90% SARAH: I don't know. 00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:48.840 align:middle line:90% I did not do that. 00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:49.890 align:middle line:90% I was not on the forums. 00:36:49.890 --> 00:36:51.924 align:middle line:84% I helped with some of the forum data in [? reforms ?] 00:36:51.924 --> 00:36:54.960 align:middle line:84% but I didn't really post on the forums a lot. 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:56.323 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you think that would be viable tactic, or 00:36:56.323 --> 00:36:58.480 align:middle line:84% would you just say, people would probably just say yes. 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.590 align:middle line:84% SARAH: I think that your data wouldn't be very good. 00:37:00.590 --> 00:37:00.900 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:02.370 align:middle line:84% SARAH: The most you're probably going to get is the 00:37:02.370 --> 00:37:05.620 align:middle line:84% 1,000 people who read the forum say, yes. 00:37:05.620 --> 00:37:07.830 align:middle line:90% And that's 1,000 people. 00:37:07.830 --> 00:37:11.750 align:middle line:84% And that's not enough sales to justify doing anything. 00:37:11.750 --> 00:37:12.530 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Gotcha. 00:37:12.530 --> 00:37:14.490 align:middle line:84% SARAH: It's more interesting, I think it's more useful to 00:37:14.490 --> 00:37:16.370 align:middle line:84% look at trends, if you've got a survey out 00:37:16.370 --> 00:37:18.630 align:middle line:90% maybe, I don't know. 00:37:18.630 --> 00:37:20.890 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I've seen companies bring in focus 00:37:20.890 --> 00:37:24.910 align:middle line:84% groups, people who played the first game to come in and 00:37:24.910 --> 00:37:29.480 align:middle line:84% bouncing off either prototypes or features that they're 00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:31.700 align:middle line:84% planning for the second version to see how they will 00:37:31.700 --> 00:37:32.575 align:middle line:90% respond to them. 00:37:32.575 --> 00:37:35.250 align:middle line:84% I would say that the information you back from that 00:37:35.250 --> 00:37:36.900 align:middle line:90% is also not very good. 00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:41.810 align:middle line:84% But it might be something that is done to gain traction in 00:37:41.810 --> 00:37:45.750 align:middle line:84% internal studio politics, and it was like, well, we did this 00:37:45.750 --> 00:37:47.840 align:middle line:84% exercise where we brought these people in and they said 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:50.263 align:middle line:84% these features are OK, so we can take the risk of 00:37:50.263 --> 00:37:50.756 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]. 00:37:50.756 --> 00:37:55.530 align:middle line:84% As opposed to driving the entire process [INAUDIBLE]. 00:37:55.530 --> 00:37:58.130 align:middle line:90% 00:37:58.130 --> 00:38:00.740 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Games don't respond really well to focus test 00:38:00.740 --> 00:38:02.820 align:middle line:90% based development. 00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.937 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Or focus group-- 00:38:03.937 --> 00:38:06.820 align:middle line:84% SARAH: Or focus group based development. 00:38:06.820 --> 00:38:09.640 align:middle line:84% Getting feedback on your games is great. 00:38:09.640 --> 00:38:11.820 align:middle line:84% Finding out how many people are likely to like your game 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:13.098 align:middle line:90% is a lot harder. 00:38:13.098 --> 00:38:15.090 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Especially if they can't actually see it 00:38:15.090 --> 00:38:18.576 align:middle line:84% when you're asking them the question then they have no 00:38:18.576 --> 00:38:20.960 align:middle line:84% idea what they're commenting on. 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.610 align:middle line:84% They'll make something up that they think you want to hear, 00:38:24.610 --> 00:38:26.641 align:middle line:84% is, yes, of course, we'll buy a copy of the game. 00:38:26.641 --> 00:38:27.410 align:middle line:90% We loved the first one. 00:38:27.410 --> 00:38:28.344 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:38:28.344 --> 00:38:30.117 align:middle line:84% But if they haven't actually seen the second version of the 00:38:30.117 --> 00:38:31.923 align:middle line:84% game [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE], so you don't actually know if 00:38:31.923 --> 00:38:33.490 align:middle line:90% that is the case. 00:38:33.490 --> 00:38:35.520 align:middle line:84% For those of you who do missed [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:41.180 align:middle line:84% talk last week, he was talking about how Inamplitude which 00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:42.080 align:middle line:90% was a sequel-- 00:38:42.080 --> 00:38:42.870 align:middle line:90% Was Amplitude-- 00:38:42.870 --> 00:38:44.120 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:38:44.120 --> 00:38:45.920 align:middle line:90% 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:46.350 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh yeah. 00:38:46.350 --> 00:38:48.130 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I think it was in the very first one. 00:38:48.130 --> 00:38:49.710 align:middle line:90% So that was Frequency. 00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:54.360 align:middle line:84% He was talking about how the folks from Sony were helping 00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.230 align:middle line:90% them run their focus groups. 00:38:56.230 --> 00:39:00.963 align:middle line:84% And they did two tests and one of the tests was, after they 00:39:00.963 --> 00:39:04.476 align:middle line:84% played the game, they did a survey of how many people were 00:39:04.476 --> 00:39:06.695 align:middle line:84% planning on buying this when it came out. 00:39:06.695 --> 00:39:08.913 align:middle line:84% And they had a particularly high score, like 80% or 00:39:08.913 --> 00:39:11.630 align:middle line:84% something like that, like the highest survey I've ever seen. 00:39:11.630 --> 00:39:14.295 align:middle line:84% But they also did a survey of how many people were planning 00:39:14.295 --> 00:39:17.410 align:middle line:84% on buying the game just by looking at the box before they 00:39:17.410 --> 00:39:18.072 align:middle line:90% had played the game. 00:39:18.072 --> 00:39:20.280 align:middle line:84% And that was a particularly low number. 00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.584 align:middle line:84% And the Sony people called it, said this is 00:39:22.584 --> 00:39:23.240 align:middle line:90% not going to sell. 00:39:23.240 --> 00:39:26.230 align:middle line:84% Because, sure, the people who played their game are going to 00:39:26.230 --> 00:39:26.800 align:middle line:90% enjoy the game. 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:28.624 align:middle line:84% But no one's going to play the game in the first place 00:39:28.624 --> 00:39:31.306 align:middle line:84% because people can't figure out what your game's about. 00:39:31.306 --> 00:39:32.270 align:middle line:90% And they tried to address those 00:39:32.270 --> 00:39:33.560 align:middle line:90% problems with the sequel. 00:39:33.560 --> 00:39:36.830 align:middle line:84% That's one thing which [? Brenda ?] talks about, your 00:39:36.830 --> 00:39:39.480 align:middle line:84% chance to do a do over, a chance for you to go back and 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:41.470 align:middle line:84% fix the problems that you found in the first one, 00:39:41.470 --> 00:39:44.110 align:middle line:84% especially when you find those problems really 00:39:44.110 --> 00:39:45.060 align:middle line:90% close to ship date. 00:39:45.060 --> 00:39:48.070 align:middle line:84% There's nothing you can do about the first time around. 00:39:48.070 --> 00:39:51.990 align:middle line:84% But if you're lucky, you get a second chance to do it. 00:39:51.990 --> 00:39:55.420 align:middle line:84% SARAH: I also noticed that Frequency was not called in, 00:39:55.420 --> 00:39:59.850 align:middle line:84% or rather, it wasn't Frequency II. 00:39:59.850 --> 00:40:01.250 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: There was a Frequency II. 00:40:01.250 --> 00:40:01.930 align:middle line:90% They called it Amplitude. 00:40:01.930 --> 00:40:04.650 align:middle line:84% So it was actually kind of a reboot as well because they 00:40:04.650 --> 00:40:07.194 align:middle line:84% kind of just wanted people, OK, let's pretend Frequency 00:40:07.194 --> 00:40:08.628 align:middle line:84% didn't happen and [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:40:08.628 --> 00:40:10.858 align:middle line:84% And we'll make sure that our Frequency people who loved the 00:40:10.858 --> 00:40:11.496 align:middle line:90% game know what it is. 00:40:11.496 --> 00:40:12.460 align:middle line:90% SARAH: Ahead of time. 00:40:12.460 --> 00:40:16.750 align:middle line:84% It's much easier to tell the small base who liked you, oh 00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:20.127 align:middle line:84% yeah, and buy this game, than it is to tell a large group of 00:40:20.127 --> 00:40:22.265 align:middle line:84% people who weren't interested the first time, no, no, you 00:40:22.265 --> 00:40:24.170 align:middle line:84% didn't like it the first time, but trust us, you'll 00:40:24.170 --> 00:40:26.810 align:middle line:90% like it this time. 00:40:26.810 --> 00:40:31.460 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I've seen a couple of companies do 00:40:31.460 --> 00:40:36.166 align:middle line:84% effectively Gold versions every time they move to a new 00:40:36.166 --> 00:40:38.500 align:middle line:84% platform, like the latest platform which they release it 00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:41.440 align:middle line:84% on tends to become the definitive version that, if 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:43.820 align:middle line:84% you're a big fan of the franchise and you're willing 00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:45.930 align:middle line:84% to buy this game multiple times, you want to get that 00:40:45.930 --> 00:40:47.810 align:middle line:84% because of the few extra features that they've put in. 00:40:47.810 --> 00:40:48.840 align:middle line:90% Maybe it's different endings. 00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:51.114 align:middle line:90% Maybe it's upgraded cutscenes. 00:40:51.114 --> 00:40:54.560 align:middle line:84% If it's a role playing game I see that a lot. 00:40:54.560 --> 00:40:57.250 align:middle line:84% Maybe they redid the cutscenes from scratch or redid the 00:40:57.250 --> 00:40:58.340 align:middle line:90% audio from scratch. 00:40:58.340 --> 00:41:03.810 align:middle line:84% So it's the same assets but they're higher resolution. 00:41:03.810 --> 00:41:06.370 align:middle line:84% And, of course, you have games that started out there like 00:41:06.370 --> 00:41:08.740 align:middle line:84% this online flash games and stuff like that and then 00:41:08.740 --> 00:41:09.850 align:middle line:84% you've got to move them to other 00:41:09.850 --> 00:41:12.106 align:middle line:90% platforms like DS or PSP. 00:41:12.106 --> 00:41:15.800 align:middle line:84% And those games tend to have not only completely reworked 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:19.470 align:middle line:84% controls because the controls are different but also a lot 00:41:19.470 --> 00:41:22.280 align:middle line:84% more features because you have to now justify to people who 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.480 align:middle line:84% may have loved the game but didn't pay any money for the 00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:28.420 align:middle line:84% first version to actually put down money for it now. 00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:30.480 align:middle line:84% So [? N ?] is a good example of that. 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:33.870 align:middle line:84% There's a game that came out by [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:41:33.870 --> 00:41:36.863 align:middle line:84% and the DS and PSP what started life as 00:41:36.863 --> 00:41:37.880 align:middle line:90% a free flash game. 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.570 align:middle line:90% And lots of people loved it. 00:41:39.570 --> 00:41:41.530 align:middle line:84% But lots of people didn't have to pay any money for their 00:41:41.530 --> 00:41:41.910 align:middle line:90% first version. 00:41:41.910 --> 00:41:45.822 align:middle line:84% So how much do you love it is kind of a weird factor. 00:41:45.822 --> 00:41:52.370 align:middle line:90% 00:41:52.370 --> 00:41:54.020 align:middle line:84% I guess we should start with the games. 00:41:54.020 --> 00:41:56.140 align:middle line:90%