WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.040 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.470 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.470 --> 00:00:03.880 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:03.880 --> 00:00:06.920 align:middle line:84% Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 00:00:06.920 --> 00:00:10.570 align:middle line:84% offer high quality educational resources for free. 00:00:10.570 --> 00:00:13.470 align:middle line:84% To make a donation or view additional materials from 00:00:13.470 --> 00:00:17.400 align:middle line:84% hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 00:00:17.400 --> 00:00:18.650 align:middle line:90% ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:18.650 --> 00:00:20.790 align:middle line:90% 00:00:20.790 --> 00:00:24.290 align:middle line:84% Some content in this audio is not covered under a Creative 00:00:24.290 --> 00:00:25.440 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.790 align:middle line:84% For more information see the course materials on the MIT 00:00:29.790 --> 00:00:31.320 align:middle line:90% OpenCourseWare website. 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:32.170 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: All right. 00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:37.700 align:middle line:84% So this, of course, does not actually mean that you have 00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:39.295 align:middle line:84% more time for assignment three. 00:00:39.295 --> 00:00:41.130 align:middle line:84% In fact it eats a little bit of your time 00:00:41.130 --> 00:00:42.540 align:middle line:90% for assignment three. 00:00:42.540 --> 00:00:45.360 align:middle line:84% Sorry about that, but I think this is a 00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:47.760 align:middle line:90% net gain for everyone. 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:48.030 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:00:48.030 --> 00:00:51.110 align:middle line:84% With that out of the way, Mia Consalvo. 00:00:51.110 --> 00:00:53.545 align:middle line:84% Actually, a lot of you probably are already familiar, 00:00:53.545 --> 00:00:54.935 align:middle line:84% you might have taken any of her classes. 00:00:54.935 --> 00:01:00.904 align:middle line:84% She is the visiting lecturer-- visiting professor, visiting 00:01:00.904 --> 00:01:02.154 align:middle line:90% professor-- 00:01:02.154 --> 00:01:04.260 align:middle line:90% 00:01:04.260 --> 00:01:07.620 align:middle line:90% here at GAMBIT. 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:09.110 align:middle line:84% Are you teaching something in the spring? 00:01:09.110 --> 00:01:10.020 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yes. 00:01:10.020 --> 00:01:11.940 align:middle line:90% Cheating and ethics in games. 00:01:11.940 --> 00:01:14.090 align:middle line:84% Brian can tell you all about it. 00:01:14.090 --> 00:01:17.165 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: You can take this as the sneak preview-- 00:01:17.165 --> 00:01:18.135 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yes. 00:01:18.135 --> 00:01:21.530 align:middle line:84% This is a taster of a little bit of what we do. 00:01:21.530 --> 00:01:23.955 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:01:23.955 --> 00:01:25.510 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:01:25.510 --> 00:01:29.250 align:middle line:84% So it sounds like you all have lots of opinions, 00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:31.190 align:middle line:90% which will be good. 00:01:31.190 --> 00:01:34.959 align:middle line:84% So to get started-- and actually, I don't like the 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:37.000 align:middle line:84% term lecturer because I don't get to lecture very much-- 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.570 align:middle line:84% I'm going to start by handing around some index cards and I 00:01:40.570 --> 00:01:45.970 align:middle line:84% want you to take a few minutes and generate some examples of 00:01:45.970 --> 00:01:51.850 align:middle line:84% ethical elements, procedures, episodes, games, the more 00:01:51.850 --> 00:01:52.890 align:middle line:84% specific you can be the better. 00:01:52.890 --> 00:01:55.440 align:middle line:84% And I'm actually going to collect these at the end 00:01:55.440 --> 00:01:59.262 align:middle line:84% because, as Phil mentioned, I'm teaching this ethics and 00:01:59.262 --> 00:02:01.166 align:middle line:84% games class and I want to bring in more 00:02:01.166 --> 00:02:02.118 align:middle line:90% examples of this stuff. 00:02:02.118 --> 00:02:04.498 align:middle line:84% So this will actually be useful for me. 00:02:04.498 --> 00:02:06.770 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Talking about in games. 00:02:06.770 --> 00:02:07.580 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah. 00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:11.740 align:middle line:84% So we were just talking about Fable, but if you could think 00:02:11.740 --> 00:02:15.810 align:middle line:84% of a more specific example from it, a level, different 00:02:15.810 --> 00:02:19.195 align:middle line:84% choices that you get with characters in certain games, 00:02:19.195 --> 00:02:23.187 align:middle line:84% whatever you can come up with in terms of are there 00:02:23.187 --> 00:02:26.680 align:middle line:84% interesting ethical dilemmas, situations. 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:27.678 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Wait. 00:02:27.678 --> 00:02:31.750 align:middle line:84% Is this within the context of the game, or are we talking 00:02:31.750 --> 00:02:34.373 align:middle line:84% about in a multiplayer game your conduct with other 00:02:34.373 --> 00:02:35.240 align:middle line:84% players, and this kind of thing? 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:37.456 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Or, when I was in Owen's office whether or not 00:02:37.456 --> 00:02:40.050 align:middle line:90% to steal the swag. 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:42.210 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: You can do it within MMOs as well, or a 00:02:42.210 --> 00:02:45.660 align:middle line:90% multiplayer game. 00:02:45.660 --> 00:02:48.783 align:middle line:84% You can continue to write examples [UNINTELLIGIBLE] if 00:02:48.783 --> 00:02:50.226 align:middle line:90% you can think of them. 00:02:50.226 --> 00:02:52.150 align:middle line:90% But just to get you started-- 00:02:52.150 --> 00:02:53.400 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:57.441 align:middle line:90% 00:02:57.441 --> 00:02:58.720 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Well then you can start by 00:02:58.720 --> 00:02:59.412 align:middle line:90% giving me an example. 00:02:59.412 --> 00:03:00.755 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Sure. 00:03:00.755 --> 00:03:01.160 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:03:01.160 --> 00:03:02.800 align:middle line:90% So I have a couple. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:07.210 align:middle line:84% Fighting games, obviously, there's always kind of 00:03:07.210 --> 00:03:09.800 align:middle line:84% questions and debate about whether something's cheap or 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.680 align:middle line:84% viable or should you be allowed to do it. 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.792 align:middle line:90% Yeah, so if maybe-- 00:03:15.792 --> 00:03:18.072 align:middle line:84% I'm trying to think how to describe it-- so, people who 00:03:18.072 --> 00:03:21.310 align:middle line:84% play casually will tend to say, oh, if you do this with 00:03:21.310 --> 00:03:23.860 align:middle line:84% this character then it's cheap and you shouldn't do that, 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:27.958 align:middle line:84% whereas the community at large and people who play seriously 00:03:27.958 --> 00:03:30.946 align:middle line:84% tend to say, well, if you can do something you should be 00:03:30.946 --> 00:03:34.183 align:middle line:84% allowed to do it, and if you can't overcome it 00:03:34.183 --> 00:03:36.080 align:middle line:90% that's your own fault. 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:37.000 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:39.390 align:middle line:90% So violating a community norm? 00:03:39.390 --> 00:03:40.550 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:03:40.550 --> 00:03:43.914 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Even if it's allowed in the rules but it's 00:03:43.914 --> 00:03:45.882 align:middle line:90% against a community norm. 00:03:45.882 --> 00:03:47.132 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:03:47.132 --> 00:03:53.262 align:middle line:90% 00:03:53.262 --> 00:03:57.230 align:middle line:84% It's like using [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:03:57.230 --> 00:03:59.720 align:middle line:90% You hadn't thought about that. 00:03:59.720 --> 00:04:16.154 align:middle line:90% 00:04:16.154 --> 00:04:16.652 align:middle line:90% Evan? 00:04:16.652 --> 00:04:17.648 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:04:17.648 --> 00:04:19.142 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, sorry. 00:04:19.142 --> 00:04:21.134 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I have a bunch of stuff, which is related to 00:04:21.134 --> 00:04:24.640 align:middle line:90% griefing just generally. 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:30.180 align:middle line:84% So let's just go for the one which is one of my favorites. 00:04:30.180 --> 00:04:34.255 align:middle line:84% So this is griefing for comic effect, or role playing 00:04:34.255 --> 00:04:38.390 align:middle line:84% griefing but doing it in a way which you are then going to 00:04:38.390 --> 00:04:39.350 align:middle line:90% write a blog about. 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:42.510 align:middle line:84% And from your character's perspective the 00:04:42.510 --> 00:04:44.010 align:middle line:90% griefing makes sense. 00:04:44.010 --> 00:04:47.770 align:middle line:84% So there is a particular player that played EverQuest. 00:04:47.770 --> 00:04:50.860 align:middle line:84% His name is Fansy the Famous Bard. 00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:58.150 align:middle line:84% He was on the good team's side and he griefed evil because 00:04:58.150 --> 00:05:00.210 align:middle line:90% evil is bad. 00:05:00.210 --> 00:05:02.900 align:middle line:84% So people who had played evil characters, he would run 00:05:02.900 --> 00:05:05.730 align:middle line:84% around and annoy in a really frustrating way, which 00:05:05.730 --> 00:05:09.048 align:middle line:84% eventually caused the makers of EverQuest to change the 00:05:09.048 --> 00:05:12.025 align:middle line:84% rules of the server so that people could kill him, where 00:05:12.025 --> 00:05:13.755 align:middle line:84% previously they weren't allowed to. 00:05:13.755 --> 00:05:15.930 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: What did he do? 00:05:15.930 --> 00:05:19.790 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There was this mechanic in EverQuest where if 00:05:19.790 --> 00:05:22.834 align:middle line:84% you were close to a monster it became aggressive 00:05:22.834 --> 00:05:24.100 align:middle line:90% and attacked you. 00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:27.220 align:middle line:84% So he had a low level character who was able to run 00:05:27.220 --> 00:05:28.280 align:middle line:90% really fast and-- 00:05:28.280 --> 00:05:29.000 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I have heard of him. 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.720 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --he would run around and then run over the 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.976 align:middle line:84% top of evil people, and then the monsters would detach from 00:05:34.976 --> 00:05:38.554 align:middle line:90% him and then kill them. 00:05:38.554 --> 00:05:44.360 align:middle line:84% Oh yeah, and the catch was that the server 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.260 align:middle line:90% was a mobile server. 00:05:46.260 --> 00:05:49.250 align:middle line:84% Aside from-- that is why-- so you can't complain to GMs 00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:53.970 align:middle line:84% about a player's behavior, aside from there was a 00:05:53.970 --> 00:05:57.890 align:middle line:84% built-in protection for players so that if they're 00:05:57.890 --> 00:06:01.460 align:middle line:84% level four or below-- so a very low level-- they can't be 00:06:01.460 --> 00:06:03.670 align:middle line:84% killed by higher level players. 00:06:03.670 --> 00:06:05.650 align:middle line:84% And so he just sat on the cusp of that. 00:06:05.650 --> 00:06:08.398 align:middle line:84% Yet there's still a way to use his ability to go around and 00:06:08.398 --> 00:06:09.780 align:middle line:84% grief people from a higher level. 00:06:09.780 --> 00:06:11.000 align:middle line:90% It was pretty great. 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:14.600 align:middle line:84% And he did it all totally in character as well, which is 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:16.254 align:middle line:90% what makes this a good grief. 00:06:16.254 --> 00:06:21.611 align:middle line:90% 00:06:21.611 --> 00:06:23.559 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Is that me? 00:06:23.559 --> 00:06:24.809 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:06:24.809 --> 00:06:26.968 align:middle line:90% 00:06:26.968 --> 00:06:31.838 align:middle line:84% I think of Portal when they ask you to use your portable 00:06:31.838 --> 00:06:32.325 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:06:32.325 --> 00:06:34.145 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:06:34.145 --> 00:06:35.500 align:middle line:90% You get to burn up the Cube. 00:06:35.500 --> 00:06:36.150 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:06:36.150 --> 00:06:37.955 align:middle line:84% You don't want to, and they make you. 00:06:37.955 --> 00:06:41.507 align:middle line:84% And you've tried to leave without it a few times and you 00:06:41.507 --> 00:06:43.735 align:middle line:84% try to break the machine and it doesn't work. 00:06:43.735 --> 00:06:45.220 align:middle line:90% It's very sad. 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:47.695 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: I feel bad. 00:06:47.695 --> 00:06:48.685 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:06:48.685 --> 00:06:48.808 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:06:48.808 --> 00:06:49.180 align:middle line:90% How about you? 00:06:49.180 --> 00:06:53.434 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I thought of Jason Rohrer's Sleep Is Death. 00:06:53.434 --> 00:06:55.382 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: What is that like? 00:06:55.382 --> 00:06:57.750 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's a more of like a story telling tool where you 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:01.120 align:middle line:84% have one player that can control the 2D world and then 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.859 align:middle line:84% you have one player who is the player, and they can 00:07:03.859 --> 00:07:05.104 align:middle line:90% interact with it. 00:07:05.104 --> 00:07:08.390 align:middle line:84% And each player has 30 seconds to make some kind of action, 00:07:08.390 --> 00:07:10.450 align:middle line:84% and then you make a story going back and forth. 00:07:10.450 --> 00:07:13.020 align:middle line:90% And what happens is-- 00:07:13.020 --> 00:07:16.930 align:middle line:84% you can play online with people, and the controller 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:19.800 align:middle line:84% character or player will have some kind of story that they 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:20.250 align:middle line:90% want to tell. 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:23.290 align:middle line:84% And so it's up to the player whether or not they want to go 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:25.690 align:middle line:84% along with the story and act like a character in that world 00:07:25.690 --> 00:07:28.360 align:middle line:90% or try and break the story. 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:29.300 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:30.240 align:middle line:90% What's the name of it again? 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:31.150 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Sleep Is Death. 00:07:31.150 --> 00:07:34.470 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:07:34.470 --> 00:07:37.935 align:middle line:90% I forgot what it's called. 00:07:37.935 --> 00:07:41.895 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Actually that's more griefing, would you say? 00:07:41.895 --> 00:07:43.380 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Kind of. 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:46.350 align:middle line:90% 00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.330 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is that by the same person as [INAUDIBLE] 00:07:48.330 --> 00:07:48.825 align:middle line:90% Passage? 00:07:48.825 --> 00:07:51.300 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:54.400 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In Ocarina of Time there's the treasure box 00:07:54.400 --> 00:07:55.110 align:middle line:90% gambling game. 00:07:55.110 --> 00:07:57.830 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] achieve if you use the Lens of Truth. 00:07:57.830 --> 00:07:58.865 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:07:58.865 --> 00:08:04.696 align:middle line:84% So there's a built-in mechanic that allows you to cheat. 00:08:04.696 --> 00:08:07.131 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] legit. 00:08:07.131 --> 00:08:10.060 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:14.540 align:middle line:84% use it anyway so it's not like a [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:16.410 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I just like include the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:19.030 align:middle line:90% 00:08:19.030 --> 00:08:20.990 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Lucky man. 00:08:20.990 --> 00:08:25.150 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So in Civ IV for each and every sector there's 00:08:25.150 --> 00:08:29.130 align:middle line:84% some sort of slavery mechanic, but I guess in Civ IV's 00:08:29.130 --> 00:08:31.070 align:middle line:90% example I know. 00:08:31.070 --> 00:08:35.350 align:middle line:84% Many players don't seem to mind the fact that what is 00:08:35.350 --> 00:08:38.649 align:middle line:84% considered slavery is ethically wrong, but in the 00:08:38.649 --> 00:08:43.200 align:middle line:84% game it's affectionately called whipping, and it's 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:45.480 align:middle line:84% considered a very efficient way of converting food-- 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:45.840 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: What's it called? 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:46.730 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Whipping. 00:08:46.730 --> 00:08:48.710 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Whipping. 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:51.185 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You whip and then you [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:08:51.185 --> 00:08:55.145 align:middle line:90% 00:08:55.145 --> 00:08:56.135 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:08:56.135 --> 00:08:59.245 align:middle line:84% So it's efficient but it's slavery. 00:08:59.245 --> 00:09:02.330 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You use granaries to offset the population loss, 00:09:02.330 --> 00:09:03.700 align:middle line:90% and if you [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:09.000 align:middle line:84% farms it becomes a very effective way to produce, 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:10.440 align:middle line:84% especially in the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:12.757 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a lot of people that way. 00:09:12.757 --> 00:09:18.224 align:middle line:90% 00:09:18.224 --> 00:09:21.206 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So in The Sims [INAUDIBLE]. 00:09:21.206 --> 00:09:29.286 align:middle line:90% 00:09:29.286 --> 00:09:31.405 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: But you have to watch them 00:09:31.405 --> 00:09:32.709 align:middle line:90% flail around and die. 00:09:32.709 --> 00:09:35.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And they get tired and [INAUDIBLE] 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:43.900 align:middle line:90% 00:09:43.900 --> 00:09:47.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A more obscure example that goes along with 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.440 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] griefing is discussions over the point in 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.510 align:middle line:84% the game the community is in MMOs. 00:09:54.510 --> 00:09:59.410 align:middle line:84% Specifically, there was apparently a huge problem in 00:09:59.410 --> 00:10:03.550 align:middle line:84% an obscure MMO called Skyress where a large community of the 00:10:03.550 --> 00:10:05.660 align:middle line:84% players was there to basically anthropomorph and RP. 00:10:05.660 --> 00:10:09.110 align:middle line:84% A large community of the players was there to play to 00:10:09.110 --> 00:10:12.110 align:middle line:84% win because it had a large combat economy system. 00:10:12.110 --> 00:10:16.820 align:middle line:84% And this, tactically, almost tore the game apart because it 00:10:16.820 --> 00:10:20.910 align:middle line:84% was such a small number of people over what should be the 00:10:20.910 --> 00:10:23.165 align:middle line:84% point to this game when, mechanically, somebody thinks 00:10:23.165 --> 00:10:24.760 align:middle line:90% they're alive. 00:10:24.760 --> 00:10:30.870 align:middle line:84% Also in Canara Rey you can blow up people, and they'll 00:10:30.870 --> 00:10:32.569 align:middle line:90% even put the star. 00:10:32.569 --> 00:10:36.241 align:middle line:90% It was traumatizing. 00:10:36.241 --> 00:10:39.424 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, but they're in a giant ball of awesome. 00:10:39.424 --> 00:10:40.828 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That's true. 00:10:40.828 --> 00:10:43.935 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Well, it's not really murder but-- 00:10:43.935 --> 00:10:46.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I didn't want to get starred. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.550 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:49.020 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's starification. 00:10:49.020 --> 00:10:53.430 align:middle line:90% 00:10:53.430 --> 00:10:55.790 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If they don't suffocate on the inside of the 00:10:55.790 --> 00:10:56.750 align:middle line:90% kevlar first. 00:10:56.750 --> 00:10:58.670 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:10:58.670 --> 00:11:00.542 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It's like the Borg, once you're in there you 00:11:00.542 --> 00:11:02.510 align:middle line:84% know it's a better way of [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:11:02.510 --> 00:11:05.890 align:middle line:90% You're grateful. 00:11:05.890 --> 00:11:15.210 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So in F.E.A.R there's a nail gun, and when 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:19.600 align:middle line:84% you kill people with it the game does a really good job of 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:23.970 align:middle line:84% spectacularly nailing them to surfaces in the environment. 00:11:23.970 --> 00:11:27.460 align:middle line:84% So if someone jumps and you shoot them in the shoulder you 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:29.110 align:middle line:84% can nail them up to the ceiling. 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:31.540 align:middle line:84% And if you nail them multiple times you can have them 00:11:31.540 --> 00:11:33.955 align:middle line:84% hanging by a hand, and by their head, and by a foot from 00:11:33.955 --> 00:11:36.060 align:middle line:90% the ceiling or from the wall. 00:11:36.060 --> 00:11:37.310 align:middle line:90% Anyway, [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:11:37.310 --> 00:11:39.310 align:middle line:90% 00:11:39.310 --> 00:11:45.160 align:middle line:84% on forums there were entire threads devoted to sharing 00:11:45.160 --> 00:11:51.310 align:middle line:84% screenshots of your most spectacular nails, just the 00:11:51.310 --> 00:11:54.150 align:middle line:90% absolutely, most gruesome-- 00:11:54.150 --> 00:11:57.490 align:middle line:84% five nails to the eye suspending a guy from 00:11:57.490 --> 00:11:59.443 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] kind of thing. 00:11:59.443 --> 00:12:00.886 align:middle line:90% And it's pretty-- 00:12:00.886 --> 00:12:04.880 align:middle line:90% 00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:07.370 align:middle line:84% Anyway, and there's a lot of debate on these threads 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:08.960 align:middle line:84% because most people will be like, yeah, look at this 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.410 align:middle line:84% picture this one's awesome and everything it has blood 00:12:11.410 --> 00:12:12.310 align:middle line:84% spatters everywhere and all that. 00:12:12.310 --> 00:12:14.835 align:middle line:84% But every third or fourth post it would be like, you guys are 00:12:14.835 --> 00:12:19.330 align:middle line:90% so messed up, this is wrong. 00:12:19.330 --> 00:12:24.650 align:middle line:84% And it's not real, you idiot, but that fact that you like it 00:12:24.650 --> 00:12:25.790 align:middle line:90% is still real. 00:12:25.790 --> 00:12:29.020 align:middle line:84% And people would argue at great lengths over this. 00:12:29.020 --> 00:12:31.460 align:middle line:84% And I remember chancing upon these forums and being like, 00:12:31.460 --> 00:12:33.481 align:middle line:90% is this messed up? 00:12:33.481 --> 00:12:34.320 align:middle line:90% I'm not sure. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:38.850 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So is it more efficient in the game to use 00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:40.530 align:middle line:84% the nail gun to kill people than other 00:12:40.530 --> 00:12:41.015 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:12:41.015 --> 00:12:42.770 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's a hell of a lot more fun. 00:12:42.770 --> 00:12:44.896 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:12:44.896 --> 00:12:47.343 align:middle line:84% But it's not like the game forces you to do it if you 00:12:47.343 --> 00:12:48.460 align:middle line:90% would not want to. 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:49.910 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No it doesn't. 00:12:49.910 --> 00:12:52.519 align:middle line:84% You could use other guns, but at some point, if you don't 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:54.065 align:middle line:84% have enough ammo for the other guns you would switch to the 00:12:54.065 --> 00:12:56.560 align:middle line:84% nail gun, I guess. it's a good gun. 00:12:56.560 --> 00:12:57.950 align:middle line:90% Shotgun is fun too. 00:12:57.950 --> 00:12:59.792 align:middle line:84% It disintegrates people at short range. 00:12:59.792 --> 00:13:02.768 align:middle line:90% 00:13:02.768 --> 00:13:04.580 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I've now heard they're [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:05.050 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:13:05.050 --> 00:13:06.650 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] turn people into skeletons. 00:13:06.650 --> 00:13:07.250 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:09.950 align:middle line:90% That one was in the expansion. 00:13:09.950 --> 00:13:11.220 align:middle line:84% Yes. that was the original, though. 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:13.808 align:middle line:84% The sniper rifle is a rail gun that shoots a beam of 00:13:13.808 --> 00:13:15.530 align:middle line:84% electricity and turns people into big [UNINTELLIGIBLE] of 00:13:15.530 --> 00:13:18.920 align:middle line:90% flesh off of their bones. 00:13:18.920 --> 00:13:20.170 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Delightful. 00:13:20.170 --> 00:13:22.560 align:middle line:90% 00:13:22.560 --> 00:13:24.710 align:middle line:84% Grand Theft Auto, you can get a prostitute for 00:13:24.710 --> 00:13:25.630 align:middle line:90% money, you get help. 00:13:25.630 --> 00:13:28.850 align:middle line:84% And then eventually you kill the prostitute, and get your 00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:29.850 align:middle line:90% money back. 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:32.080 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.730 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And then some of the ones related to that is 00:13:34.730 --> 00:13:38.430 align:middle line:84% BioShock where you can either kill the little sisters and 00:13:38.430 --> 00:13:43.240 align:middle line:84% harvest them for lots of good, or lots of points, rather, or 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.280 align:middle line:84% save them and get a small amount of points but you feel 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.130 align:middle line:84% better about yourself, which actually in the end, ends us 00:13:48.130 --> 00:13:51.730 align:middle line:90% being the better way to go. 00:13:51.730 --> 00:13:55.340 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It's like you get more if you save them? 00:13:55.340 --> 00:13:57.775 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If you kill them and harvest them you get 10 00:13:57.775 --> 00:13:58.400 align:middle line:90% points, let's say. 00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:00.750 align:middle line:84% If you save them you get five points. 00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:04.800 align:middle line:84% But then after 10 saves you get a bonus of 100 points. 00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:08.910 align:middle line:84% So it ends up being more efficient in the long run to 00:14:08.910 --> 00:14:12.252 align:middle line:84% save them, more efficient in the short run to kill them. 00:14:12.252 --> 00:14:13.720 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And also if you're going to kill them you 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:15.916 align:middle line:90% should kill them all. 00:14:15.916 --> 00:14:20.636 align:middle line:90% Don't just knock off one. 00:14:20.636 --> 00:14:24.550 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In Age of Empires III when you are colonizing 00:14:24.550 --> 00:14:26.940 align:middle line:84% your colony you have the option of exploiting the 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:30.910 align:middle line:84% native people to help you fight. 00:14:30.910 --> 00:14:33.475 align:middle line:90% They just help you fight. 00:14:33.475 --> 00:14:38.000 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: How is this presented to exploit natives? 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:43.250 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You establish an outpost inside of their 00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:47.620 align:middle line:84% residence area and you supposedly train with them. 00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:49.610 align:middle line:84% There's nothing really there in the game, you just 00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:52.805 align:middle line:84% literally put a house of yours inside of their colony. 00:14:52.805 --> 00:14:55.770 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Also Microsoft's selling that for $0.10. 00:14:55.770 --> 00:14:56.710 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Empires III? 00:14:56.710 --> 00:14:57.650 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:14:57.650 --> 00:14:58.120 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Why? 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.512 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think it was just yesterday. 00:15:00.512 --> 00:15:01.820 align:middle line:90% I'm not sure. 00:15:01.820 --> 00:15:03.900 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:15:03.900 --> 00:15:08.800 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In inFAMOUS you can choose whether to be bad or 00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:11.740 align:middle line:84% good, and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] other people or to help them 00:15:11.740 --> 00:15:15.170 align:middle line:84% survive in a post-apocalyptic world. 00:15:15.170 --> 00:15:20.092 align:middle line:84% And I guess you can do the same thing in Fallout. 00:15:20.092 --> 00:15:23.760 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Well also, inFAMOUS 00:15:23.760 --> 00:15:27.605 align:middle line:90% forces you more to choose. 00:15:27.605 --> 00:15:29.990 align:middle line:84% Remember Ash was playing that in our class? 00:15:29.990 --> 00:15:31.843 align:middle line:84% And she said you really had to go one way or 00:15:31.843 --> 00:15:32.790 align:middle line:90% the other to get-- 00:15:32.790 --> 00:15:36.530 align:middle line:84% on either end of the spectrum there were special abilities. 00:15:36.530 --> 00:15:37.990 align:middle line:84% If you stayed in the middle you got nothing. 00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:40.980 align:middle line:90% 00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:45.394 align:middle line:84% Although there are certain things you can build off of. 00:15:45.394 --> 00:15:46.820 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So there's also getting a following. 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:50.332 align:middle line:84% You can gain people that travel with you. 00:15:50.332 --> 00:15:53.128 align:middle line:84% Like based off if you're good, neutral, or bad. 00:15:53.128 --> 00:15:54.530 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I'm sorry. 00:15:54.530 --> 00:15:58.230 align:middle line:84% I was going to say, in Fallout 3 there's one particularly 00:15:58.230 --> 00:16:01.980 align:middle line:84% really good example where you get trapped in this dream 00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:04.810 align:middle line:84% world that this guy is creating for you and a bunch 00:16:04.810 --> 00:16:07.650 align:middle line:84% of other people, which you don't know that it's a dream 00:16:07.650 --> 00:16:08.890 align:middle line:90% world at first. 00:16:08.890 --> 00:16:10.920 align:middle line:84% You know it's a dream or something but you don't know 00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:12.840 align:middle line:84% that these are real people and they're dreaming with you. 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:17.886 align:middle line:84% And he tells you to kill the other people in the dream in 00:16:17.886 --> 00:16:20.530 align:middle line:84% order to let you get out because he is in complete 00:16:20.530 --> 00:16:22.510 align:middle line:90% control of it. 00:16:22.510 --> 00:16:24.540 align:middle line:84% You can kill them and you'll get out fine and all the 00:16:24.540 --> 00:16:26.170 align:middle line:90% people will be dead. 00:16:26.170 --> 00:16:29.480 align:middle line:90% Or there's ways that aren't-- 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:33.010 align:middle line:84% you're not told but there are ways to just go around all of 00:16:33.010 --> 00:16:35.370 align:middle line:84% it and just get out without killing anyone. 00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:40.000 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: They stole that from-- 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.566 align:middle line:84% in Baldur's Gate 2 there's a similar thing. 00:16:42.566 --> 00:16:43.816 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was actually going to talk [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:16:43.816 --> 00:17:02.475 align:middle line:90% 00:17:02.475 --> 00:17:04.810 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the first thing I would mention 00:17:04.810 --> 00:17:06.680 align:middle line:90% is a Emerald Items. 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.075 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Just one thing. 00:17:08.075 --> 00:17:11.720 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: God of War, [UNINTELLIGIBLE], how so many 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.780 align:middle line:84% times you'll be fighting monsters and all of a sudden a 00:17:13.780 --> 00:17:17.310 align:middle line:84% bunch of civilians come by and you just let them go, but 00:17:17.310 --> 00:17:18.060 align:middle line:90% there's no fun there. 00:17:18.060 --> 00:17:20.545 align:middle line:84% If you kill them you get life and experience so it's-- 00:17:20.545 --> 00:17:21.220 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:17:21.220 --> 00:17:22.566 align:middle line:90% reward you for killing them? 00:17:22.566 --> 00:17:23.438 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:17:23.438 --> 00:17:24.700 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh that's bizarre. 00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:27.366 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You get your life back. 00:17:27.366 --> 00:17:29.060 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Maybe some [INTERPOSING VOICES] do that 00:17:29.060 --> 00:17:29.840 align:middle line:90% in the story. 00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:31.770 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Huh? 00:17:31.770 --> 00:17:34.415 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: You're Kratos. 00:17:34.415 --> 00:17:35.947 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Oh, you are the God of War. 00:17:35.947 --> 00:17:38.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, you become the God of-- well, pretty much you 00:17:38.080 --> 00:17:40.310 align:middle line:84% just go around killing, hacking and slashing 00:17:40.310 --> 00:17:42.282 align:middle line:90% everything up. 00:17:42.282 --> 00:17:44.040 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 00:17:44.040 --> 00:17:47.410 align:middle line:84% So these are just civilians who are doing nothing. 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:48.300 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yes, they're just running away from everybody 00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:50.425 align:middle line:84% for their lives from scary monsters, and then you come 00:17:50.425 --> 00:17:54.050 align:middle line:84% and just hack them all into pieces. 00:17:54.050 --> 00:17:59.830 align:middle line:84% Also in the game, the second one, in order to pass on you 00:17:59.830 --> 00:18:01.650 align:middle line:90% have to translate something. 00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:06.366 align:middle line:84% And to translate it you smash your head into it and then 00:18:06.366 --> 00:18:08.630 align:middle line:84% they say you have to sacrifice it in blood so you just smash 00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:14.210 align:middle line:84% them into pieces until they have the blood sacrifice. 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:15.626 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It feels so good. 00:18:15.626 --> 00:18:16.570 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you have to do that? 00:18:16.570 --> 00:18:17.356 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:18:17.356 --> 00:18:18.930 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh, OK. 00:18:18.930 --> 00:18:22.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In Indigo Prophecy you switch between different 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:23.160 align:middle line:90% sets of characters. 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.530 align:middle line:84% And one of them is a guy who commited a murder, and then 00:18:25.530 --> 00:18:28.700 align:middle line:84% you switch to the cops who are trying to catch him. 00:18:28.700 --> 00:18:32.070 align:middle line:84% In one of the earlier scenes you play as a cop you bring in 00:18:32.070 --> 00:18:35.160 align:middle line:84% a witness and you're trying to make up the artist rendering 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.100 align:middle line:84% of what the murderer looks like. 00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:40.660 align:middle line:84% And so you can choose whether or not to make a faithful 00:18:40.660 --> 00:18:44.060 align:middle line:84% rendering and bring the cops closer to catching him or to 00:18:44.060 --> 00:18:47.800 align:middle line:84% make one that looks nothing like him so you can evade them 00:18:47.800 --> 00:18:50.874 align:middle line:84% when you play as the other guy. 00:18:50.874 --> 00:18:52.840 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Interesting. 00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:57.382 align:middle line:84% If you make it not look like you as killer-- 00:18:57.382 --> 00:19:00.498 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Then there are other clues he has to find in order 00:19:00.498 --> 00:19:02.570 align:middle line:90% to finally track him down. 00:19:02.570 --> 00:19:03.770 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Can you-- 00:19:03.770 --> 00:19:05.970 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: How do you win this game? 00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:08.242 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:19:08.242 --> 00:19:09.610 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] events. 00:19:09.610 --> 00:19:11.142 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:19:11.142 --> 00:19:13.422 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:19:13.422 --> 00:19:15.440 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I mean is the goal to catch the killer, or 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.230 align:middle line:84% for the killer to get away, or you just-- 00:19:17.230 --> 00:19:19.933 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's actually an adventure game so the goal is 00:19:19.933 --> 00:19:20.580 align:middle line:90% to maintain the story. 00:19:20.580 --> 00:19:21.830 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:19:21.830 --> 00:19:24.738 align:middle line:90% 00:19:24.738 --> 00:19:26.714 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:19:26.714 --> 00:19:29.615 align:middle line:90% Philip. 00:19:29.615 --> 00:19:33.203 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In a LARP that I played a long time ago I was 00:19:33.203 --> 00:19:36.500 align:middle line:84% allowed to draw one item from a location every hour. 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:40.280 align:middle line:84% The game ran from noon to midnight on three different 00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:42.470 align:middle line:84% days but I couldn't play before 2:00 PM. 00:19:42.470 --> 00:19:44.676 align:middle line:90% So I come in at 2:00 PM. 00:19:44.676 --> 00:19:48.556 align:middle line:84% How many items was I allowed to draw when I came into the 00:19:48.556 --> 00:19:50.630 align:middle line:84% game given that I already missed two hours of the game? 00:19:50.630 --> 00:19:55.190 align:middle line:84% And if the answer is, well, I can make that up, then what 00:19:55.190 --> 00:19:57.422 align:middle line:84% happens if I miss an hour half way through the-- 00:19:57.422 --> 00:20:01.330 align:middle line:90% and if I forget. 00:20:01.330 --> 00:20:03.820 align:middle line:90% No one's looking into the box. 00:20:03.820 --> 00:20:04.950 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: What did you do? 00:20:04.950 --> 00:20:05.923 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What did I do? 00:20:05.923 --> 00:20:06.650 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yes. 00:20:06.650 --> 00:20:07.376 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What did I do? 00:20:07.376 --> 00:20:10.285 align:middle line:84% I think I drew more than one item at the beginning of the 00:20:10.285 --> 00:20:14.100 align:middle line:84% game and I made sure I never forgot. 00:20:14.100 --> 00:20:15.435 align:middle line:90% So, honor system. 00:20:15.435 --> 00:20:17.856 align:middle line:84% A lot of LARPs are based on the honor system. 00:20:17.856 --> 00:20:23.832 align:middle line:90% 00:20:23.832 --> 00:20:27.990 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So in Final Fantasy VII, like a lot of Japanese 00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:30.060 align:middle line:84% RPGs, you get used to the idea of walking into people's 00:20:30.060 --> 00:20:33.750 align:middle line:84% houses and just digging in the items you find, except in FF 00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:35.620 align:middle line:84% VII they actually mix it up a couple of times. 00:20:35.620 --> 00:20:37.440 align:middle line:84% There are a couple of instances where you go in 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:39.570 align:middle line:84% there and do that and maybe it's fairly insignificant, you 00:20:39.570 --> 00:20:42.800 align:middle line:84% could buy it easily with a couple pieces of gold or gil 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:43.915 align:middle line:90% or whatever it is. 00:20:43.915 --> 00:20:45.940 align:middle line:84% And then the person walks out of their kitchen or something, 00:20:45.940 --> 00:20:47.630 align:middle line:84% and it's, did you just take my item? 00:20:47.630 --> 00:20:50.070 align:middle line:84% And you have the option saying yes or no. 00:20:50.070 --> 00:20:53.070 align:middle line:84% And if you say no then you get to keep it but if you say yes 00:20:53.070 --> 00:20:54.150 align:middle line:90% they're, what the hell? 00:20:54.150 --> 00:20:57.482 align:middle line:90% Give it back. 00:20:57.482 --> 00:21:00.891 align:middle line:90% I thought it was interesting. 00:21:00.891 --> 00:21:02.717 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I have something that hasn't really been 00:21:02.717 --> 00:21:05.790 align:middle line:90% touched on. 00:21:05.790 --> 00:21:09.721 align:middle line:84% When you're running a very large scale Guild in an MMO 00:21:09.721 --> 00:21:12.777 align:middle line:84% you reach a point where you need to distribute from these 00:21:12.777 --> 00:21:20.320 align:middle line:84% high end The community optimal thing to do is for the people 00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:23.565 align:middle line:84% who are in charge of the Guild to allocate who gets what so 00:21:23.565 --> 00:21:26.305 align:middle line:84% that you can, for instance, kick out the characters that's 00:21:26.305 --> 00:21:27.910 align:middle line:84% most important for the Guild to have for the [? game ?] 00:21:27.910 --> 00:21:29.760 align:middle line:90% to progress. 00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:33.040 align:middle line:84% But for the most part, actual members of the Guild don't 00:21:33.040 --> 00:21:36.380 align:middle line:84% really like that because you would like to receive some 00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:39.235 align:middle line:84% kind of reward for having put in time to the Guild. 00:21:39.235 --> 00:21:42.445 align:middle line:84% And going a long time without ever having gotten anything is 00:21:42.445 --> 00:21:46.130 align:middle line:84% really frustrating, so people come up with these intricate 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:52.920 align:middle line:84% systems for DKP for distributing your resources, 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.564 align:middle line:84% essentially, to try to balance the interests of the 00:21:56.564 --> 00:21:58.387 align:middle line:84% individual and the interest of the community. 00:21:58.387 --> 00:22:02.110 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: How many of you are unsure what DKP is? 00:22:02.110 --> 00:22:04.576 align:middle line:90% Dragon Kill Points. 00:22:04.576 --> 00:22:08.110 align:middle line:84% There are these sometimes elaborate schemes for if you 00:22:08.110 --> 00:22:13.190 align:middle line:84% participate in these raids, you get so many points. 00:22:13.190 --> 00:22:18.050 align:middle line:84% And the idea is the Guild claims everything that drops 00:22:18.050 --> 00:22:18.980 align:middle line:90% physically. 00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:22.555 align:middle line:84% And you build up points, and at some point you have enough 00:22:22.555 --> 00:22:25.020 align:middle line:90% to buy a certain item. 00:22:25.020 --> 00:22:27.440 align:middle line:84% So let's say you're on a raid and you just got something 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:28.860 align:middle line:90% really cool last time. 00:22:28.860 --> 00:22:31.130 align:middle line:84% If something drops this time that you could really use, 00:22:31.130 --> 00:22:33.580 align:middle line:84% even though you're there you don't necessarily get it 00:22:33.580 --> 00:22:36.920 align:middle line:84% because you just spent all your DKP. 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.670 align:middle line:84% And there's lots of Guild drama over how these DKPs-- 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:42.926 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Primary source of Guild drama. 00:22:42.926 --> 00:22:44.335 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Have you been playing? 00:22:44.335 --> 00:22:45.185 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Hm? 00:22:45.185 --> 00:22:48.240 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Dan, have you been playing this? 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.026 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You end up by raids and then you 00:22:50.026 --> 00:22:51.840 align:middle line:90% catch them before breakfast. 00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:54.616 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: And there are black out dates. 00:22:54.616 --> 00:22:56.380 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Running one of these things is actually 00:22:56.380 --> 00:23:00.120 align:middle line:84% surprisingly complicated and hard, particularly-- 00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:03.880 align:middle line:84% so my little experience, I ran a Guild which 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.100 align:middle line:90% incorporated this. 00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:08.710 align:middle line:84% One problem that happens is if you have fixed prices for 00:23:08.710 --> 00:23:13.370 align:middle line:84% things then you get DKP inflation as prices change. 00:23:13.370 --> 00:23:15.990 align:middle line:84% And what happens is-- and it's incredibly complicated-- to 00:23:15.990 --> 00:23:17.640 align:middle line:84% where, now, you have to reprice everything constantly. 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:20.180 align:middle line:84% So instead we went for an auction-based system where 00:23:20.180 --> 00:23:22.840 align:middle line:90% people bid on things. 00:23:22.840 --> 00:23:25.470 align:middle line:84% And then prices correct themselves. 00:23:25.470 --> 00:23:29.360 align:middle line:84% However, people can collude in auctions, which then causes a 00:23:29.360 --> 00:23:31.775 align:middle line:84% resentment in people who aren't in on the collusion, 00:23:31.775 --> 00:23:34.970 align:middle line:84% and the whole thing is just a nightmare. 00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:36.890 align:middle line:84% And now I don't run a Guild anymore and I'm really happy. 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:41.183 align:middle line:90% 00:23:41.183 --> 00:23:44.610 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In games like Pokemon or Animal Crossing you 00:23:44.610 --> 00:23:47.180 align:middle line:84% can decide whether or not to change the time on 00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:50.070 align:middle line:90% your DNS or game cube. 00:23:50.070 --> 00:23:52.270 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] score came out I was like 00:23:52.270 --> 00:23:54.509 align:middle line:90% 10 I had a bed time. 00:23:54.509 --> 00:23:57.407 align:middle line:84% I didn't have a lot of time to catch up on Pokemon. 00:23:57.407 --> 00:24:01.760 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You can do that too and manipulate the RNG and get 00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:03.400 align:middle line:90% the stats you want. 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:04.760 align:middle line:84% Perfect for [INTERPOSING VOICES]. 00:24:04.760 --> 00:24:08.144 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's also-- besides whenever you do the 00:24:08.144 --> 00:24:13.520 align:middle line:84% random number generator hacks in games in order to get a 00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:17.160 align:middle line:84% certain drop that's normally 1% but you can increase it to 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.340 align:middle line:90% up to almost 100-- 00:24:20.340 --> 00:24:24.910 align:middle line:84% but what I was going to say was that in Fallout 3 you can 00:24:24.910 --> 00:24:26.750 align:middle line:90% pickpocket people. 00:24:26.750 --> 00:24:29.242 align:middle line:84% And something you do when you pickpocket people, as long as 00:24:29.242 --> 00:24:32.840 align:middle line:84% you don't get caught, you can take a grenade from your 00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:35.270 align:middle line:84% inventory and place it in their pocket, and all of a 00:24:35.270 --> 00:24:37.870 align:middle line:84% sudden they're, oh my god, there's a grenade, run away. 00:24:37.870 --> 00:24:39.360 align:middle line:84% And it will blow up inside their pocket 00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:40.722 align:middle line:90% and they will explode. 00:24:40.722 --> 00:24:41.720 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What game? 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:43.160 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Fallout 3. 00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:47.130 align:middle line:84% And the funny thing is that that's actually an achievement 00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:50.088 align:middle line:90% to blow someone up. 00:24:50.088 --> 00:24:51.980 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Do you get, other 00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:53.750 align:middle line:90% than the joy and giggles-- 00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:57.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well besides from the joy and giggles, 00:24:57.260 --> 00:24:59.430 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:24:59.430 --> 00:25:02.280 align:middle line:84% you can pick their pockets, whatever they have in their 00:25:02.280 --> 00:25:03.110 align:middle line:90% pocket you can get. 00:25:03.110 --> 00:25:04.870 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That is still left. 00:25:04.870 --> 00:25:07.521 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well you take it out as you're 00:25:07.521 --> 00:25:08.977 align:middle line:90% putting the grenade in. 00:25:08.977 --> 00:25:11.033 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You wouldn't want their [UNINTELLIGIBLE] to be 00:25:11.033 --> 00:25:11.719 align:middle line:90% damaged by the grenade. 00:25:11.719 --> 00:25:13.830 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:25:13.830 --> 00:25:14.937 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, you're just putting them 00:25:14.937 --> 00:25:16.260 align:middle line:90% in at the same time. 00:25:16.260 --> 00:25:18.125 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:25:18.125 --> 00:25:20.422 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And it can be a little tricky. 00:25:20.422 --> 00:25:21.672 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:25:21.672 --> 00:25:25.878 align:middle line:90% 00:25:25.878 --> 00:25:26.870 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:25:26.870 --> 00:25:28.840 align:middle line:84% Anybody have any representative examples we 00:25:28.840 --> 00:25:30.286 align:middle line:90% haven't touched on? 00:25:30.286 --> 00:25:33.258 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I used to play a lot of [UNINTELLIGIBLE] online and 00:25:33.258 --> 00:25:34.624 align:middle line:84% they had a bunch of really sophisticated rules that 00:25:34.624 --> 00:25:37.040 align:middle line:90% applied in certain situations. 00:25:37.040 --> 00:25:40.280 align:middle line:84% So there were a lot of times in the game where you just 00:25:40.280 --> 00:25:43.172 align:middle line:84% flat out lie to people and have them go into situations 00:25:43.172 --> 00:25:45.000 align:middle line:90% that were unsafe for them. 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.950 align:middle line:84% For example, if people were in your house-- in an urban 00:25:47.950 --> 00:25:49.750 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game if people are inside your house 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:53.390 align:middle line:84% they are automatically flagged as attackable by you because 00:25:53.390 --> 00:25:56.155 align:middle line:84% they're in your house and you might not have let them in. 00:25:56.155 --> 00:25:57.990 align:middle line:84% And they can run outside their house and they'll be 00:25:57.990 --> 00:25:58.730 align:middle line:90% unattackable by you. 00:25:58.730 --> 00:26:01.930 align:middle line:84% But you can also put a trash barrel in front of your door, 00:26:01.930 --> 00:26:04.480 align:middle line:84% which only you can destroy and nobody else can destroy, and 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:05.910 align:middle line:90% they can't run through that. 00:26:05.910 --> 00:26:08.570 align:middle line:84% So you would invite them in to trade them something or 00:26:08.570 --> 00:26:09.395 align:middle line:90% enjoying your meal. 00:26:09.395 --> 00:26:11.830 align:middle line:84% And they're in your house, then you put a trash barrel 00:26:11.830 --> 00:26:16.000 align:middle line:84% there so they can never leave and just kill them. 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:16.740 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Or just leave them there, right? 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:17.710 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Or just leave them. 00:26:17.710 --> 00:26:19.640 align:middle line:84% There are tons and tons of rules. 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:21.490 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:26:21.490 --> 00:26:23.645 align:middle line:84% It's really bad, It's really bad. 00:26:23.645 --> 00:26:27.889 align:middle line:84% I was part of the Guild that did this to me and then I 00:26:27.889 --> 00:26:28.887 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:26:28.887 --> 00:26:30.883 align:middle line:84% I was like, that is pretty sick. 00:26:30.883 --> 00:26:33.378 align:middle line:84% There are a bunch of way to steal tons and tons of money 00:26:33.378 --> 00:26:35.873 align:middle line:84% from people and they didn't realize that you did. 00:26:35.873 --> 00:26:37.370 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Did you get that [UNINTELLIGIBLE]? 00:26:37.370 --> 00:26:38.368 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:26:38.368 --> 00:26:38.867 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:26:38.867 --> 00:26:43.460 align:middle line:84% But I feel like just blatantly lying to people as a tactic 00:26:43.460 --> 00:26:45.310 align:middle line:84% instead of just being [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:26:45.310 --> 00:26:48.150 align:middle line:90% 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.713 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The question about real world money for in game 00:26:51.713 --> 00:26:56.555 align:middle line:84% items especially for competitive games whether or 00:26:56.555 --> 00:26:58.501 align:middle line:90% not it's allowed by the GMs. 00:26:58.501 --> 00:27:02.140 align:middle line:90% 00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:03.556 align:middle line:84% Those are two different questions. 00:27:03.556 --> 00:27:05.640 align:middle line:84% One is the ethical question from the player's standpoint. 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.119 align:middle line:84% And the other is what does it mean in terms of the player 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.430 align:middle line:84% character relation in the game. 00:27:12.430 --> 00:27:16.230 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was going to say one thing that comes up 00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:19.900 align:middle line:84% especially in board games that have a lot of positive 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:23.030 align:middle line:84% feedback, it's called king making. 00:27:23.030 --> 00:27:24.315 align:middle line:84% Good examples are like in Monopoly, 00:27:24.315 --> 00:27:25.530 align:middle line:90% or Settlers or Munchkin. 00:27:25.530 --> 00:27:29.375 align:middle line:84% And how it works, let's say you and Owen and I are playing 00:27:29.375 --> 00:27:33.000 align:middle line:84% Settlers and typically what will happen is say Owen is 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.750 align:middle line:84% winning but I'm typically really far behind, or someone 00:27:35.750 --> 00:27:38.250 align:middle line:84% is going to be in a position where they have 00:27:38.250 --> 00:27:39.540 align:middle line:90% no chance of winning. 00:27:39.540 --> 00:27:42.123 align:middle line:84% So if I decide he's winning and you're close second and 00:27:42.123 --> 00:27:45.271 align:middle line:84% I'm distant third, what people do is say, hey Mia, I will 00:27:45.271 --> 00:27:47.640 align:middle line:84% give you everything for your one little card and then you 00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.390 align:middle line:84% can win because I'm mad at Owen. 00:27:50.390 --> 00:27:52.844 align:middle line:84% And then it comes up, like you said, in Monopoly there's this 00:27:52.844 --> 00:27:55.356 align:middle line:84% question of is that a really jerky thing to do? 00:27:55.356 --> 00:27:56.832 align:middle line:90% The rules don't disallow it. 00:27:56.832 --> 00:27:59.292 align:middle line:90% It's an ongoing debate. 00:27:59.292 --> 00:28:01.752 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:28:01.752 --> 00:28:03.720 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Don't do that. 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.672 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Similarly in Monopoly, the rules don't 00:28:06.672 --> 00:28:08.640 align:middle line:84% specifically allow If I have two [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:12.820 align:middle line:84% we'll exchange that and promise each other immunity on 00:28:12.820 --> 00:28:14.940 align:middle line:84% our properties or something that you're not allowed to 00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:15.730 align:middle line:90% actually promise each other. 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:17.760 align:middle line:90% Or if [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:20.632 align:middle line:84% will always do it to you and will promise me half the 00:28:20.632 --> 00:28:23.246 align:middle line:84% profits or something like that where clearly the third person 00:28:23.246 --> 00:28:26.418 align:middle line:84% is now shut out of the game and can't win because 00:28:26.418 --> 00:28:27.412 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:28:27.412 --> 00:28:31.388 align:middle line:84% advantage even though we're [UNINTELLIGIBLE] with things 00:28:31.388 --> 00:28:33.376 align:middle line:84% that aren't explicitly allowed in the rules. 00:28:33.376 --> 00:28:37.120 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: How many of you have played Dragon Age? 00:28:37.120 --> 00:28:39.595 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I've seen it played. 00:28:39.595 --> 00:28:40.585 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:28:40.585 --> 00:28:43.555 align:middle line:84% I've just, I'm playing through it right now. 00:28:43.555 --> 00:28:44.720 align:middle line:84% I've been thinking about these issues a lot. 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.069 align:middle line:84% Actually on my first play through there's a scene where 00:28:47.069 --> 00:28:49.021 align:middle line:84% there's a kid possessed by a demon. 00:28:49.021 --> 00:28:50.100 align:middle line:84% You have the choice whether you kill him or not. 00:28:50.100 --> 00:28:53.734 align:middle line:84% The first time I killed him and-- 00:28:53.734 --> 00:28:56.560 align:middle line:90% I thought everybody did. 00:28:56.560 --> 00:28:58.270 align:middle line:90% I had no compunction about it. 00:28:58.270 --> 00:29:00.965 align:middle line:84% It was like die demon, demon die. 00:29:00.965 --> 00:29:04.320 align:middle line:84% It turns out everybody really hated that, all the other 00:29:04.320 --> 00:29:06.650 align:middle line:90% characters, my companions. 00:29:06.650 --> 00:29:10.080 align:middle line:84% And this play time through I was I'll try it. 00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:14.140 align:middle line:84% And it was all this extra work involved. 00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:19.960 align:middle line:84% But it seems like in the game whether you want to do the 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.770 align:middle line:84% good thing or not it generally works to your advantage to do 00:29:23.770 --> 00:29:26.520 align:middle line:84% the good thing because you get more stuff, either better 00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:29.020 align:middle line:84% approval ratings from your companions who then unlock 00:29:29.020 --> 00:29:31.360 align:middle line:90% bonuses or you get stuff. 00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:32.910 align:middle line:90% Whereas, being the jerk-- 00:29:32.910 --> 00:29:35.976 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It kind of depends on who your companions are. 00:29:35.976 --> 00:29:37.344 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Does it? 00:29:37.344 --> 00:29:38.535 align:middle line:90% Who approves? 00:29:38.535 --> 00:29:40.724 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: People like the-- 00:29:40.724 --> 00:29:42.849 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Like Elven assassin, I can't remember 00:29:42.849 --> 00:29:43.488 align:middle line:90% what his name is. 00:29:43.488 --> 00:29:44.802 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, Zevran. 00:29:44.802 --> 00:29:46.330 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:29:46.330 --> 00:29:49.088 align:middle line:84% but she likes all the jerky things. 00:29:49.088 --> 00:29:49.996 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:29:49.996 --> 00:29:51.358 align:middle line:84% I didn't have Zevran the first time through. 00:29:51.358 --> 00:29:52.490 align:middle line:90% That's why [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:29:52.490 --> 00:29:55.030 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Also that one guy, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:29:55.030 --> 00:29:57.620 align:middle line:90% 00:29:57.620 --> 00:29:58.800 align:middle line:84% that can spot [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:00.686 align:middle line:90% No, no, another guy. 00:30:00.686 --> 00:30:03.000 align:middle line:84% I think you can get him on your team at least. 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.950 align:middle line:84% He's in the temple where there's that big dragon and 00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:10.980 align:middle line:84% where you're doing some ash quest or something. 00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:13.080 align:middle line:84% And he wants you to pour dragon blood on 00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:14.000 align:middle line:90% the ashes or something. 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:15.933 align:middle line:84% I'm pretty sure you can get him on your team. 00:30:15.933 --> 00:30:18.250 align:middle line:90% Am I right or am I wrong? 00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:20.920 align:middle line:84% But I think you can get them as part of your final army. 00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:24.810 align:middle line:84% And they're pretty good, and they're bad. 00:30:24.810 --> 00:30:27.025 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I just chose poorly, apparently, my 00:30:27.025 --> 00:30:28.100 align:middle line:90% companions [INAUDIBLE] 00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:32.040 align:middle line:84% moralistic ones like kill a kid. 00:30:32.040 --> 00:30:33.780 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:30:33.780 --> 00:30:35.350 align:middle line:84% In the reading you did [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:30:35.350 --> 00:30:39.600 align:middle line:84% talks about different choices and the way that game 00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:41.550 align:middle line:84% designers are putting games together. 00:30:41.550 --> 00:30:44.320 align:middle line:84% And he talks about two different categories, the open 00:30:44.320 --> 00:30:46.035 align:middle line:84% and the closed ethical systems. 00:30:46.035 --> 00:30:48.780 align:middle line:90% 00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:53.100 align:middle line:84% The open was more letting players determine for 00:30:53.100 --> 00:30:55.710 align:middle line:84% themselves [UNINTELLIGIBLE] they want to take and kind of 00:30:55.710 --> 00:30:58.730 align:middle line:84% seeing how that goes through, whereas the closed is the 00:30:58.730 --> 00:31:03.100 align:middle line:84% system that forces a particular way of 00:31:03.100 --> 00:31:05.080 align:middle line:90% playing upon you. 00:31:05.080 --> 00:31:08.440 align:middle line:84% And so, just kind of going through these here, where do 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:12.570 align:middle line:84% you see them falling in terms of closed and open? 00:31:12.570 --> 00:31:14.800 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Wait. 00:31:14.800 --> 00:31:17.134 align:middle line:84% You confused me with those [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:31:17.134 --> 00:31:19.614 align:middle line:84% You said open means that you have the decision on how to 00:31:19.614 --> 00:31:23.270 align:middle line:84% value actions or on what to do? 00:31:23.270 --> 00:31:25.850 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Well he says, for example, in The Sims with 00:31:25.850 --> 00:31:29.840 align:middle line:84% drowning, he mentions The Sims is an open game where you can 00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:36.990 align:middle line:84% do what you want and think about what happens. 00:31:36.990 --> 00:31:39.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A definitely closed example, it's not up there, 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:40.180 align:middle line:84% but I'll give you a closed example up there 00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:42.050 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:31:42.050 --> 00:31:46.220 align:middle line:84% In the first Modern Warfare game they have a flashback 00:31:46.220 --> 00:31:50.230 align:middle line:84% sequence where you have to snipe the featured bad guy, 00:31:50.230 --> 00:31:51.640 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:57.110 align:middle line:84% And even though in the game story he survives your attempt 00:31:57.110 --> 00:32:00.780 align:middle line:84% to kill him, if you don't actually hit him with the 00:32:00.780 --> 00:32:04.390 align:middle line:84% bullet the game won't let you progress. 00:32:04.390 --> 00:32:08.240 align:middle line:84% So you have to go and basically snipe this dude no 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.080 align:middle line:84% matter what, the game won't let you do it. 00:32:10.080 --> 00:32:10.530 align:middle line:84% And that's just part of the story, 00:32:10.530 --> 00:32:11.870 align:middle line:90% that's just how it works. 00:32:11.870 --> 00:32:15.530 align:middle line:84% And it's dubiously moral that you should be meddling with 00:32:15.530 --> 00:32:16.980 align:middle line:90% such affairs but you know. 00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.590 align:middle line:84% And it actually comes back to bite you later in the game 00:32:19.590 --> 00:32:23.250 align:middle line:84% because you're at the place where it's causing problems 00:32:23.250 --> 00:32:25.134 align:middle line:84% for you the fact that you tried snipe this guy. 00:32:25.134 --> 00:32:26.660 align:middle line:84% And they had you play the flashback but 00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:28.820 align:middle line:90% you have to do it. 00:32:28.820 --> 00:32:32.256 align:middle line:84% And it's all directed [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:32:32.256 --> 00:32:34.720 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Isn't like the Cube murder closed as well because 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.860 align:middle line:90% you don't have a choice. 00:32:36.860 --> 00:32:38.730 align:middle line:84% You have to kill him to move on. 00:32:38.730 --> 00:32:39.145 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: The what? 00:32:39.145 --> 00:32:40.910 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The Cube murder in [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:32:40.910 --> 00:32:42.910 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, the Cube. 00:32:42.910 --> 00:32:47.926 align:middle line:84% I'm thinking Q. Yeah, that would be closed because you 00:32:47.926 --> 00:32:50.704 align:middle line:84% simply can't move on, and you just have to deal with your-- 00:32:50.704 --> 00:32:52.100 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: But that's the joke. 00:32:52.100 --> 00:32:53.454 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah, yeah. 00:32:53.454 --> 00:32:54.704 align:middle line:90% Exactly. 00:32:54.704 --> 00:32:56.650 align:middle line:90% 00:32:56.650 --> 00:32:58.794 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Starification is fairly closed. 00:32:58.794 --> 00:33:01.566 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah. 00:33:01.566 --> 00:33:04.196 align:middle line:84% You can bad mouth those people you just can't play 00:33:04.196 --> 00:33:06.148 align:middle line:90% Katamari I'm sorry. 00:33:06.148 --> 00:33:09.076 align:middle line:90% 00:33:09.076 --> 00:33:13.370 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I have a question actually about when we passed 00:33:13.370 --> 00:33:15.181 align:middle line:90% Sleep Is Death griefing. 00:33:15.181 --> 00:33:18.163 align:middle line:84% It seems to me that was intended by design. 00:33:18.163 --> 00:33:19.654 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Which one? 00:33:19.654 --> 00:33:22.150 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The Sleep Is Death griefing directly under 00:33:22.150 --> 00:33:22.420 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:33:22.420 --> 00:33:27.201 align:middle line:84% Like the idea that I am a GM, you're a player, and part of 00:33:27.201 --> 00:33:30.995 align:middle line:84% the challenge is not knowing whether your player is going 00:33:30.995 --> 00:33:32.310 align:middle line:90% to play along with you. 00:33:32.310 --> 00:33:33.920 align:middle line:90% But that's part of the game. 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:35.968 align:middle line:84% So I don't know that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:33:35.968 --> 00:33:38.413 align:middle line:90% closed or open. 00:33:38.413 --> 00:33:42.325 align:middle line:90% That tension's intended. 00:33:42.325 --> 00:33:45.259 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: I don't know. 00:33:45.259 --> 00:33:47.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's still open, right? 00:33:47.690 --> 00:33:50.910 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I would say this one is open, I guess, 00:33:50.910 --> 00:33:53.960 align:middle line:84% because you are allowed to do what you want. 00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.350 align:middle line:84% The example he gives for closed ended is-- one of 00:33:56.350 --> 00:34:02.105 align:middle line:84% them-- is Manhunt where you have to kill the bull and the 00:34:02.105 --> 00:34:04.940 align:middle line:84% more grisly you kill them the better in some ways 00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:06.540 align:middle line:90% you don't like it. 00:34:06.540 --> 00:34:07.500 align:middle line:84% There's just no way to get through the game. 00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:08.850 align:middle line:84% The other example he also gives is 00:34:08.850 --> 00:34:10.870 align:middle line:90% Shadow of the Colossus. 00:34:10.870 --> 00:34:16.305 align:middle line:84% And that one, especially, it's ambiguous in terms of, OK, I 00:34:16.305 --> 00:34:19.219 align:middle line:84% have to kill these things, and if you play through you 00:34:19.219 --> 00:34:21.580 align:middle line:84% realize well, wait a minute, they're just hanging out 00:34:21.580 --> 00:34:24.947 align:middle line:84% they're not really doing anything necessarily bad but I 00:34:24.947 --> 00:34:26.270 align:middle line:84% have to keep killing them anyhow. 00:34:26.270 --> 00:34:30.690 align:middle line:84% And you can start to feel guilty but it's what you have 00:34:30.690 --> 00:34:31.719 align:middle line:90% to do to play the game. 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:33.530 align:middle line:84% So you would say that's a closed system. 00:34:33.530 --> 00:34:39.185 align:middle line:90% 00:34:39.185 --> 00:34:42.050 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and Indigo Prophecy might be 00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:46.730 align:middle line:84% closed because you have to go on with the story, you have to 00:34:46.730 --> 00:34:50.435 align:middle line:84% make decisions such in order to progress on. 00:34:50.435 --> 00:34:53.749 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I feel like it isn't-- is that right? 00:34:53.749 --> 00:34:56.920 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think the idea is that closed would be you don't 00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:58.200 align:middle line:90% get to make decisions. 00:34:58.200 --> 00:35:01.330 align:middle line:84% Closed is like if you want to play the game you have to make 00:35:01.330 --> 00:35:04.030 align:middle line:84% this moral decision-- you don't have a choice in the 00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:07.090 align:middle line:84% moral decision, you have to be evil. 00:35:07.090 --> 00:35:08.520 align:middle line:90% And that's one thing. 00:35:08.520 --> 00:35:11.150 align:middle line:84% And another game could be you have to be good but if you 00:35:11.150 --> 00:35:13.620 align:middle line:84% have the decision between both paths then that's open, I 00:35:13.620 --> 00:35:14.020 align:middle line:90% believe, right? 00:35:14.020 --> 00:35:14.710 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yes. 00:35:14.710 --> 00:35:18.010 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The premise behind Inidgo Prophecy was that you 00:35:18.010 --> 00:35:20.240 align:middle line:84% can choose to do any action in the game it would just have a 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:21.770 align:middle line:90% different ending as a result. 00:35:21.770 --> 00:35:25.200 align:middle line:84% But in practice it only had a few endings but the premise 00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:28.148 align:middle line:84% was that it would have countless endings depending on 00:35:28.148 --> 00:35:31.010 align:middle line:90% your actions. 00:35:31.010 --> 00:35:34.244 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and Age of Empires III is going to 00:35:34.244 --> 00:35:36.650 align:middle line:90% have some closed-- 00:35:36.650 --> 00:35:40.300 align:middle line:84% Maid exploitation because for the campaigns at least 00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:40.980 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:44.740 align:middle line:84% there are conditions for completing a scenario 00:35:44.740 --> 00:35:45.010 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:50.092 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, so you have to do [UNINTELLIGIBLE]? 00:35:50.092 --> 00:35:52.826 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The [UNINTELLIGIBLE] is open. 00:35:52.826 --> 00:35:54.284 align:middle line:90% [? QTA ?] is open. 00:35:54.284 --> 00:35:55.040 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:35:55.040 --> 00:35:57.050 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Most of the rest are open. 00:35:57.050 --> 00:35:57.860 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah. 00:35:57.860 --> 00:35:59.748 align:middle line:90% Fallout 3 is definitely open. 00:35:59.748 --> 00:36:02.464 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The western style one. 00:36:02.464 --> 00:36:05.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The F.E.A.R nail gun is actually-- 00:36:05.510 --> 00:36:07.235 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: The nail gun is what? 00:36:07.235 --> 00:36:09.730 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I don't know of anyone who's gotten through 00:36:09.730 --> 00:36:11.610 align:middle line:84% F.E.A.R without killing someone with a nail gun at 00:36:11.610 --> 00:36:12.091 align:middle line:90% some point. 00:36:12.091 --> 00:36:14.500 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But is that [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:36:14.500 --> 00:36:20.270 align:middle line:90% 00:36:20.270 --> 00:36:22.475 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Can you punch things? 00:36:22.475 --> 00:36:24.050 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah you can. 00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:25.730 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You can't run at that level. 00:36:25.730 --> 00:36:27.773 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You can actually kung fu kick things, which is 00:36:27.773 --> 00:36:29.920 align:middle line:90% pretty cool, in slow mo. 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.530 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In fact, I don't say all the rest 00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:34.360 align:middle line:90% of them seem open. 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:35.350 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Pretty open, yeah. 00:36:35.350 --> 00:36:36.835 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:36:36.835 --> 00:36:37.825 align:middle line:90% kicking people. 00:36:37.825 --> 00:36:39.409 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: You don't have to do this at 00:36:39.409 --> 00:36:39.805 align:middle line:90% any point, do you? 00:36:39.805 --> 00:36:41.290 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No. 00:36:41.290 --> 00:36:44.260 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:36:44.260 --> 00:36:45.260 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK. 00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:48.010 align:middle line:84% So most of these-- what, do we say about [UNINTELLIGIBLE]? 00:36:48.010 --> 00:36:48.916 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh. 00:36:48.916 --> 00:36:50.166 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Open. 00:36:50.166 --> 00:36:52.656 align:middle line:90% 00:36:52.656 --> 00:36:58.140 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Regarding BioShock, would that be open or closed? 00:36:58.140 --> 00:36:59.460 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well [UNINTELLIGIBLE] open-- 00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:01.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You have a choice but it's in your best 00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:04.300 align:middle line:84% interests to do one or the other. 00:37:04.300 --> 00:37:06.292 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:37:06.292 --> 00:37:10.380 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So if you have only one thing you can do it's 00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:11.540 align:middle line:90% fairly closed. 00:37:11.540 --> 00:37:14.170 align:middle line:84% If you have only two things you can do that are very 00:37:14.170 --> 00:37:17.078 align:middle line:84% clearly defined is it really an open system or is it just a 00:37:17.078 --> 00:37:18.695 align:middle line:90% closed system with two paths. 00:37:18.695 --> 00:37:21.120 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was under the impression that 00:37:21.120 --> 00:37:23.070 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:37:23.070 --> 00:37:25.534 align:middle line:84% because you weren't self-guiding the system was 00:37:25.534 --> 00:37:28.992 align:middle line:84% determining whether what you were doing was good or bad. 00:37:28.992 --> 00:37:30.968 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was thinking [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:37:30.968 --> 00:37:32.944 align:middle line:84% I thought inFAMOUS [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:37:32.944 --> 00:37:35.414 align:middle line:90% would also be closed. 00:37:35.414 --> 00:37:36.664 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:37:36.664 --> 00:37:38.822 align:middle line:90% 00:37:38.822 --> 00:37:40.794 align:middle line:84% I didn't get the difference between only having one option 00:37:40.794 --> 00:37:43.259 align:middle line:84% and the system telling you which option 00:37:43.259 --> 00:37:47.696 align:middle line:90% is the right option. 00:37:47.696 --> 00:37:52.590 align:middle line:84% So in that case some of these turn from open to close. 00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:54.880 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Like this one. {INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.220 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: BioShock would then be closed. 00:37:57.220 --> 00:38:00.328 align:middle line:84% Fallout 3 The Dream Land, would that be closed? 00:38:00.328 --> 00:38:03.056 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It isn't telling you which choice 00:38:03.056 --> 00:38:03.304 align:middle line:90% is the right option. 00:38:03.304 --> 00:38:07.870 align:middle line:84% You needn't be morally [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:38:07.870 --> 00:38:09.540 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: What do you think? 00:38:09.540 --> 00:38:11.830 align:middle line:90% Do you think he's saying-- 00:38:11.830 --> 00:38:13.205 align:middle line:84% I know what you're saying because he also mentioned Ice 00:38:13.205 --> 00:38:15.315 align:middle line:84% Field Republic as a closed option. 00:38:15.315 --> 00:38:18.330 align:middle line:90% 00:38:18.330 --> 00:38:22.870 align:middle line:84% Is it that there are two discrete, like good or evil, 00:38:22.870 --> 00:38:26.700 align:middle line:84% like the Jedi or the dark path? 00:38:26.700 --> 00:38:29.400 align:middle line:90% Is Fallout that concrete? 00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.050 align:middle line:90% Fallout 3. 00:38:31.050 --> 00:38:34.950 align:middle line:90% I know inFAMOUS is. 00:38:34.950 --> 00:38:37.760 align:middle line:84% You're either going one way or the other. 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.025 align:middle line:84% But I'm not as sure, and I'm just asking people who've 00:38:40.025 --> 00:38:44.606 align:middle line:84% played it, is Fallout 3 that particular in is it setting up 00:38:44.606 --> 00:38:45.928 align:middle line:84% a dichotomy of the good character versus 00:38:45.928 --> 00:38:48.373 align:middle line:90% evil, or is it much-- 00:38:48.373 --> 00:38:49.840 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's much more of a gradient. 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:51.796 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:38:51.796 --> 00:38:53.752 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:38:53.752 --> 00:38:56.020 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In Baldur's Gate there's two things. 00:38:56.020 --> 00:38:57.310 align:middle line:84% There's your alignment, which you pick at the 00:38:57.310 --> 00:38:58.998 align:middle line:90% beginning of the game. 00:38:58.998 --> 00:39:02.832 align:middle line:84% It's more like D&D style but it's fixed. 00:39:02.832 --> 00:39:07.970 align:middle line:84% But then there's this thing that's your reputation, which 00:39:07.970 --> 00:39:11.400 align:middle line:84% can be decreased if you do certain things, from the game 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:13.545 align:middle line:90% point of view, in view others. 00:39:13.545 --> 00:39:16.530 align:middle line:84% So you can get into doing bad stuff sometimes without 00:39:16.530 --> 00:39:18.170 align:middle line:84% actually decreasing your reputation. 00:39:18.170 --> 00:39:22.802 align:middle line:84% You can also just pick a evil alignment and then do only 00:39:22.802 --> 00:39:25.142 align:middle line:84% good things, and that's just very weird. 00:39:25.142 --> 00:39:27.860 align:middle line:84% So I don't exactly remember how the alignment really 00:39:27.860 --> 00:39:29.020 align:middle line:90% factors into game play. 00:39:29.020 --> 00:39:30.370 align:middle line:84% But there's a moment, for example, in the game, there's 00:39:30.370 --> 00:39:31.970 align:middle line:90% a big story for-- 00:39:31.970 --> 00:39:35.460 align:middle line:84% it rejoins it afterwards-- but you you have to ally yourself 00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:39.960 align:middle line:84% with either the Thieves Guild or the vampires in town who 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:42.420 align:middle line:90% are competing affections. 00:39:42.420 --> 00:39:44.700 align:middle line:84% So you have the thieves against the vampires. 00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:46.726 align:middle line:84% If it's the thieves against the vampires you got to pick 00:39:46.726 --> 00:39:52.790 align:middle line:84% one to help you raid a certain area, and you don't really 00:39:52.790 --> 00:39:54.160 align:middle line:90% have other choices. 00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:58.020 align:middle line:84% And one doesn't make you gooder or eviler. 00:39:58.020 --> 00:39:59.070 align:middle line:90% They're both kind of bad. 00:39:59.070 --> 00:40:01.800 align:middle line:84% But you have to do it to find the person that 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:03.740 align:middle line:90% you're trying to get. 00:40:03.740 --> 00:40:06.650 align:middle line:90% That's kind of closed. 00:40:06.650 --> 00:40:10.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So in terms of Baldur's Gate II, I would say, 00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:12.790 align:middle line:84% one, there's the reputation stats, which I've found never 00:40:12.790 --> 00:40:14.310 align:middle line:84% really into the [UNINTELLIGIBLE], which is 00:40:14.310 --> 00:40:15.700 align:middle line:90% some type of metric for your-- 00:40:15.700 --> 00:40:17.290 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That's not true. 00:40:17.290 --> 00:40:19.696 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You kill everyone and you have to go 00:40:19.696 --> 00:40:21.690 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] to do that. 00:40:21.690 --> 00:40:24.300 align:middle line:84% People in your party can duel you for your honor if they get 00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:25.280 align:middle line:90% upset at you. 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.260 align:middle line:84% Kaldor dueled me, left my party, and then tried to 00:40:28.260 --> 00:40:30.710 align:middle line:84% attack me because I was too evil. 00:40:30.710 --> 00:40:31.690 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:40:31.690 --> 00:40:32.460 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:32.990 align:middle line:90% I stood out. 00:40:32.990 --> 00:40:35.440 align:middle line:84% Like very, very specific actions that will affect your 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.795 align:middle line:84% alignment, and there aren't very many of those. 00:40:37.795 --> 00:40:41.310 align:middle line:84% In addition you have these cut scene decisions, which are 00:40:41.310 --> 00:40:43.326 align:middle line:84% also very black or white, good or evil. 00:40:43.326 --> 00:40:45.522 align:middle line:84% But I would say there's a lot of decisions in the game that 00:40:45.522 --> 00:40:49.470 align:middle line:84% don't [UNINTELLIGIBLE], that have both that ethical choice 00:40:49.470 --> 00:40:54.980 align:middle line:84% but not nearly as much of a mechanical impact. 00:40:54.980 --> 00:40:57.010 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: One of the things he also mentions in 00:40:57.010 --> 00:41:00.508 align:middle line:84% relation to the open system, going back to The Sims, is 00:41:00.508 --> 00:41:05.470 align:middle line:84% that you can do what you want and the game doesn't 00:41:05.470 --> 00:41:08.040 align:middle line:90% necessarily punish you. 00:41:08.040 --> 00:41:11.480 align:middle line:84% You can murder and you can drown your Sims, and the rest 00:41:11.480 --> 00:41:15.290 align:middle line:84% of the Sims in the house don't move away in fear or 00:41:15.290 --> 00:41:18.010 align:middle line:90% disapprove of your action. 00:41:18.010 --> 00:41:20.270 align:middle line:84% It's just up to you whether you want to feel 00:41:20.270 --> 00:41:21.840 align:middle line:90% bad about it or not. 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:27.990 align:middle line:84% Or the game has no larger response other than let a Sim 00:41:27.990 --> 00:41:31.745 align:middle line:84% die once the site lit a Sim on fire. 00:41:31.745 --> 00:41:36.200 align:middle line:84% And I wish they rolled for his life and got a zombie back. 00:41:36.200 --> 00:41:39.830 align:middle line:84% It turns out the only way zombies happen in the game is 00:41:39.830 --> 00:41:40.655 align:middle line:84% if you make somebody else unhappy. 00:41:40.655 --> 00:41:44.120 align:middle line:84% So then I had to kill a zombie. 00:41:44.120 --> 00:41:45.120 align:middle line:90% It was sad. 00:41:45.120 --> 00:41:48.070 align:middle line:84% So that was another element to it. 00:41:48.070 --> 00:41:49.900 align:middle line:84% One of the things that he talks about in general in 00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:55.030 align:middle line:84% relation to all of this, and a lot of these fit is ethics to 00:41:55.030 --> 00:41:57.570 align:middle line:90% your statistics. 00:41:57.570 --> 00:42:01.190 align:middle line:84% That somehow ethical systems are on this point or sliding 00:42:01.190 --> 00:42:03.685 align:middle line:84% scale and that you're heading towards good or you're heading 00:42:03.685 --> 00:42:04.560 align:middle line:90% towards evil. 00:42:04.560 --> 00:42:07.880 align:middle line:84% We were even mentioning this before class started that you 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.530 align:middle line:84% can blow up an entire town but then if you give three beggars 00:42:11.530 --> 00:42:15.215 align:middle line:84% $0.50 cents each suddenly you're back at neutral because 00:42:15.215 --> 00:42:18.804 align:middle line:84% of the way that these sliding systems work in bizzarely 00:42:18.804 --> 00:42:20.090 align:middle line:90% mechanical ways. 00:42:20.090 --> 00:42:22.144 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, you can buy reputation back 00:42:22.144 --> 00:42:24.092 align:middle line:90% by stoning two temples. 00:42:24.092 --> 00:42:26.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's like indulgences. 00:42:26.040 --> 00:42:27.680 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah it is, exactly. 00:42:27.680 --> 00:42:29.120 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Indulgences [INAUDIBLE]. 00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:32.480 align:middle line:90% 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.360 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I have to close this now because I'm getting high 00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:36.320 align:middle line:90% off of marker fumes. 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:40.064 align:middle line:84% I wanted to show you an example of one that we haven't 00:42:40.064 --> 00:42:41.036 align:middle line:90% talked about yet. 00:42:41.036 --> 00:42:43.466 align:middle line:84% Somebody mentioned Call of Duty. 00:42:43.466 --> 00:42:44.438 align:middle line:84% This one is actually from last year. 00:42:44.438 --> 00:42:48.326 align:middle line:84% It's not Castro, which is the new one, but-- 00:42:48.326 --> 00:42:50.270 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is it the Russian hostage thing? 00:42:50.270 --> 00:42:51.242 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: Yes. 00:42:51.242 --> 00:42:53.672 align:middle line:90% It's the new Russian level-- 00:42:53.672 --> 00:42:54.644 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:42:54.644 --> 00:42:55.894 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: From Modern Warfare 2. 00:42:55.894 --> 00:42:58.758 align:middle line:90% 00:42:58.758 --> 00:43:02.880 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's like a competition. 00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:06.440 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So this was last year's Call of Duty, and 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:07.990 align:middle line:90% this was the optional level. 00:43:07.990 --> 00:43:09.890 align:middle line:90% You did not have to play it. 00:43:09.890 --> 00:43:13.520 align:middle line:84% And of course it caused a big storm when it was released. 00:43:13.520 --> 00:43:15.973 align:middle line:84% I'm just going to play it and then we can talk about it 00:43:15.973 --> 00:43:17.817 align:middle line:90% afterwards. 00:43:17.817 --> 00:43:19.360 align:middle line:90% Has anyone played this? 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:21.334 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:43:21.334 --> 00:43:25.318 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Want to provide a little context or explain 00:43:25.318 --> 00:43:28.306 align:middle line:90% the a little bit more? 00:43:28.306 --> 00:43:32.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the convoluted plot is that this is a false 00:43:32.690 --> 00:43:36.850 align:middle line:84% flag attack, which is staged by a terrorist organization, 00:43:36.850 --> 00:43:40.590 align:middle line:84% which is meant to frame the CIA to start a war between 00:43:40.590 --> 00:43:42.620 align:middle line:90% Russia and the US. 00:43:42.620 --> 00:43:46.200 align:middle line:84% And so the idea here is that you are playing a character 00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:49.740 align:middle line:84% who is undercover as part of the CIA who is part of this 00:43:49.740 --> 00:43:51.710 align:middle line:90% terrorist organization. 00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:55.240 align:middle line:84% And then you end up being double crossed because they, 00:43:55.240 --> 00:43:57.799 align:middle line:84% as it was just revealed at the end, they knew you were a CIA 00:43:57.799 --> 00:44:00.620 align:middle line:84% agent and they're trying to pin the attack on America. 00:44:00.620 --> 00:44:03.160 align:middle line:90% 00:44:03.160 --> 00:44:04.250 align:middle line:90% So that's the-- 00:44:04.250 --> 00:44:06.000 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you have the option [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.370 align:middle line:84% of shooting Makarov in the back or-- 00:44:08.370 --> 00:44:09.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, I don't believe so. 00:44:09.430 --> 00:44:12.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If you tried and shoot Makarov then the level 00:44:12.690 --> 00:44:15.870 align:middle line:84% ends with a fail, and you have to arrest him again. 00:44:15.870 --> 00:44:18.730 align:middle line:84% If you try and get through the level without shooting any 00:44:18.730 --> 00:44:20.610 align:middle line:90% civilians the level also ends. 00:44:20.610 --> 00:44:26.170 align:middle line:84% Makarov decides that you're a traitor and shoots you before 00:44:26.170 --> 00:44:26.950 align:middle line:90% doing anything else-- 00:44:26.950 --> 00:44:28.330 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Before he's supposed to shoot you later. 00:44:28.330 --> 00:44:28.977 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Before he's supposed to shoot 00:44:28.977 --> 00:44:30.364 align:middle line:90% you, I seem to remember. 00:44:30.364 --> 00:44:34.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think you can get through the mission by not 00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:37.495 align:middle line:84% shooting any civilians but you can't get through without 00:44:37.495 --> 00:44:38.950 align:middle line:90% shooting any of the cops. 00:44:38.950 --> 00:44:39.875 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah, there's-- 00:44:39.875 --> 00:44:41.855 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If you don't shoot the cops then you can't 00:44:41.855 --> 00:44:42.350 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:44:42.350 --> 00:44:44.330 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah that's true. 00:44:44.330 --> 00:44:45.580 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:44:45.580 --> 00:44:49.280 align:middle line:90% 00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:52.710 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Although that guy was incredibly diligent about 00:44:52.710 --> 00:44:53.960 align:middle line:90% killing civilians. 00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.540 align:middle line:90% 00:44:56.540 --> 00:44:58.187 align:middle line:84% I did not play that level that way. 00:44:58.187 --> 00:44:59.181 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh, god. 00:44:59.181 --> 00:45:02.660 align:middle line:90% I did. 00:45:02.660 --> 00:45:07.450 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, that guy took his work to heart. 00:45:07.450 --> 00:45:10.940 align:middle line:84% I don't think that I would have-- like Owen says-- 00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:13.944 align:middle line:84% I haven't played Modern Warfare 2 yet or Black Ops, 00:45:13.944 --> 00:45:17.805 align:middle line:84% for that matter-- but I don't feel like it would come to me 00:45:17.805 --> 00:45:20.770 align:middle line:84% that it was really necessary to just hunt down every last 00:45:20.770 --> 00:45:21.263 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:45:21.263 --> 00:45:22.742 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: He's thorough. 00:45:22.742 --> 00:45:26.200 align:middle line:90% He's very thorough. 00:45:26.200 --> 00:45:28.110 align:middle line:84% But it is also interesting that you-- 00:45:28.110 --> 00:45:28.910 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:45:28.910 --> 00:45:31.370 align:middle line:84% and that's all right-- that you think, well, I'm killing 00:45:31.370 --> 00:45:32.350 align:middle line:90% all of these people-- 00:45:32.350 --> 00:45:33.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So that I can then kill him, 00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:34.030 align:middle line:90% probably, or something. 00:45:34.030 --> 00:45:35.970 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Right, or it's for a greater good, right, 00:45:35.970 --> 00:45:39.260 align:middle line:84% that I'm going to get in with this group and help bring down 00:45:39.260 --> 00:45:43.880 align:middle line:84% this terrorist cell, whereas, ha, ha, not so much. 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:48.056 align:middle line:84% Call of Duty, has anyone played Black Ops? 00:45:48.056 --> 00:45:49.340 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Not yet. 00:45:49.340 --> 00:45:53.250 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: There's a scene in it, another level where you 00:45:53.250 --> 00:45:55.850 align:middle line:90% can assassinate Castro. 00:45:55.850 --> 00:45:57.830 align:middle line:90% And I was just watching it-- 00:45:57.830 --> 00:45:58.880 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It pissed off Castro. 00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:00.320 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: --this morning. 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.320 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It did. 00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.760 align:middle line:90% They-- 00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:09.200 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: No the Cuba objected to the video game. 00:46:09.200 --> 00:46:10.910 align:middle line:90% I watched that level. 00:46:10.910 --> 00:46:13.680 align:middle line:84% It's not nearly as exciting as this one. 00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:17.190 align:middle line:84% Although it's interesting in that you infiltrate his 00:46:17.190 --> 00:46:21.370 align:middle line:84% compound, you get up to-- he's in his bedroom with his 00:46:21.370 --> 00:46:23.510 align:middle line:90% whatever she is-- 00:46:23.510 --> 00:46:25.040 align:middle line:90% and you shoot him. 00:46:25.040 --> 00:46:29.310 align:middle line:84% And in this clip the guy shot him in the head and it slows 00:46:29.310 --> 00:46:33.190 align:middle line:84% down to bullet time actually, and you see it enter his 00:46:33.190 --> 00:46:35.130 align:middle line:90% forehead and he falls over. 00:46:35.130 --> 00:46:39.120 align:middle line:84% And then the enraged lover grabs the machine gun and 00:46:39.120 --> 00:46:41.080 align:middle line:84% starts firing at you in her negligee. 00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:43.260 align:middle line:90% So you have to kill her too. 00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:44.947 align:middle line:84% And, yeah, Cuba is the operation. 00:46:44.947 --> 00:46:49.398 align:middle line:84% But I don't think it takes a lot to get Cuba mad at the 00:46:49.398 --> 00:46:50.016 align:middle line:90% United States anyway. 00:46:50.016 --> 00:46:51.500 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Can you score that? 00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:54.190 align:middle line:84% I don't see the statistics, the like statistics. 00:46:54.190 --> 00:46:55.320 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE]. 00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:56.430 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:46:56.430 --> 00:46:57.120 align:middle line:90% see if I dislike. 00:46:57.120 --> 00:46:58.600 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's pretty high [INAUDIBLE]. 00:46:58.600 --> 00:47:08.356 align:middle line:90% 00:47:08.356 --> 00:47:10.826 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: In the previous Modern Warfare 00:47:10.826 --> 00:47:14.310 align:middle line:90% game there's actually-- 00:47:14.310 --> 00:47:17.150 align:middle line:84% I haven't seen anyone draw this parallel, but there is a 00:47:17.150 --> 00:47:20.886 align:middle line:84% level where you are in the middle of a firefight, a US 00:47:20.886 --> 00:47:25.930 align:middle line:84% Marine in some Middle Eastern war zone, and you are told to 00:47:25.930 --> 00:47:32.210 align:middle line:84% shoot at enemies who are coming onto your center but at 00:47:32.210 --> 00:47:36.130 align:middle line:84% such a range that you cannot tell friend from foe. 00:47:36.130 --> 00:47:39.030 align:middle line:84% That it's absolutely certain that whatever it is you can 00:47:39.030 --> 00:47:41.680 align:middle line:84% get there's a 50% chance that there's 00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:43.840 align:middle line:90% actually one of your allies. 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:45.950 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's also the really creepy-- 00:47:45.950 --> 00:47:47.050 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Gunship sequence. 00:47:47.050 --> 00:47:49.025 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --the gunship sequence, which is-- 00:47:49.025 --> 00:47:50.750 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Which gets most of the attention. 00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:59.146 align:middle line:84% But I was surprised by the subtlety of the sequence where 00:47:59.146 --> 00:48:02.279 align:middle line:84% you are just in the middle of a firefight in Modern Warfare 00:48:02.279 --> 00:48:06.230 align:middle line:84% 1 because it has that situation of you are being 00:48:06.230 --> 00:48:13.445 align:middle line:84% told to kill but you may not, even though everyone that you 00:48:13.445 --> 00:48:16.090 align:middle line:84% might be shooting at is a combatant, you may not want to 00:48:16.090 --> 00:48:19.140 align:middle line:90% shoot everyone in this space. 00:48:19.140 --> 00:48:21.720 align:middle line:84% I felt that made a more interesting, subtle point 00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:22.150 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:26.180 align:middle line:84% That's kind of what the situation of being in the 00:48:26.180 --> 00:48:31.264 align:middle line:84% Middle East right now is like, as far as you can tell. 00:48:31.264 --> 00:48:34.570 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I was thinking about this because I actually 00:48:34.570 --> 00:48:39.260 align:middle line:84% did an interview last week, two weeks ago, with some radio 00:48:39.260 --> 00:48:42.150 align:middle line:84% people and it was about Black Ops being released because 00:48:42.150 --> 00:48:45.190 align:middle line:84% it's the best selling entertainment media ever. 00:48:45.190 --> 00:48:47.750 align:middle line:84% And they introduced it, of course, on the segment as the 00:48:47.750 --> 00:48:51.620 align:middle line:84% ultra violent video game, Call of Duty. 00:48:51.620 --> 00:48:53.560 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That's pretty accurate. 00:48:53.560 --> 00:48:55.970 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: It is please. 00:48:55.970 --> 00:49:00.370 align:middle line:84% And one of the questions that each affiliate asked over and 00:49:00.370 --> 00:49:03.850 align:middle line:84% over is they mentioned the Castro level and they said, 00:49:03.850 --> 00:49:07.290 align:middle line:90% have video games gone too far? 00:49:07.290 --> 00:49:10.830 align:middle line:84% Is there a line that shouldn't be crossed? 00:49:10.830 --> 00:49:14.730 align:middle line:84% And I'm sure if they had-- none of these people actually 00:49:14.730 --> 00:49:17.285 align:middle line:84% played video games so they were just 00:49:17.285 --> 00:49:19.250 align:middle line:90% reading their scripts-- 00:49:19.250 --> 00:49:22.400 align:middle line:84% this might have even fit even better in terms of 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:23.950 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:49:23.950 --> 00:49:27.136 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'm surprised this got through. 00:49:27.136 --> 00:49:29.750 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Well it's an optional level. 00:49:29.750 --> 00:49:31.830 align:middle line:90% You don't have to do it. 00:49:31.830 --> 00:49:33.560 align:middle line:84% Interesting comment right there. 00:49:33.560 --> 00:49:36.800 align:middle line:84% If it was JFK airport or US citizens-- 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:42.440 align:middle line:84% But leaving aside just the knee jerk gamer defense, well, 00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:45.690 align:middle line:84% it's just for fun or it's just a video game, how do you 00:49:45.690 --> 00:49:47.250 align:middle line:90% answer that question? 00:49:47.250 --> 00:49:51.580 align:middle line:84% I know what I spew to them but I'm just curious in terms of 00:49:51.580 --> 00:49:56.150 align:middle line:84% what does it mean beyond just games as statistics for the 00:49:56.150 --> 00:49:57.660 align:middle line:90% good or the dark side? 00:49:57.660 --> 00:50:00.460 align:middle line:90% 00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:02.330 align:middle line:84% Is there a point you think where it can go too 00:50:02.330 --> 00:50:04.590 align:middle line:90% far with the game? 00:50:04.590 --> 00:50:07.870 align:middle line:84% What's the assumption behind that question? 00:50:07.870 --> 00:50:12.790 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's a really disturbing news report I was 00:50:12.790 --> 00:50:18.120 align:middle line:84% reading about this Japanese game called RapeLay. 00:50:18.120 --> 00:50:22.040 align:middle line:84% And for me it was clear this is totally messed up, I can't 00:50:22.040 --> 00:50:24.530 align:middle line:90% believe this exists. 00:50:24.530 --> 00:50:29.020 align:middle line:84% But the part that was disturbing was the defense put 00:50:29.020 --> 00:50:31.580 align:middle line:90% forth by the developers. 00:50:31.580 --> 00:50:34.810 align:middle line:84% And they were saying who are you guys to be telling us this 00:50:34.810 --> 00:50:35.990 align:middle line:90% is messed up. 00:50:35.990 --> 00:50:38.190 align:middle line:84% You Americans, you make games all the time where you have to 00:50:38.190 --> 00:50:39.490 align:middle line:90% kill people. 00:50:39.490 --> 00:50:43.750 align:middle line:84% Murder is a much worse crime than rape. 00:50:43.750 --> 00:50:46.600 align:middle line:84% Our game is not nearly as bad as, say, this. 00:50:46.600 --> 00:50:50.690 align:middle line:84% And I was, wait, no, but that's more messed up. 00:50:50.690 --> 00:50:52.710 align:middle line:90% But, what? 00:50:52.710 --> 00:50:55.535 align:middle line:84% And I don't know what to think of it. 00:50:55.535 --> 00:50:58.285 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:50:58.285 --> 00:50:58.760 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: What? 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.005 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In a South Park episode they address it 00:51:02.005 --> 00:51:04.312 align:middle line:90% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:51:04.312 --> 00:51:07.570 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Actually, just online on that game in 00:51:07.570 --> 00:51:10.114 align:middle line:84% particular there was a backlash that I heard in Japan 00:51:10.114 --> 00:51:14.120 align:middle line:84% about RapeLay mainly because the game had been out for 00:51:14.120 --> 00:51:18.360 align:middle line:84% maybe two years and gone completely unnoticed until, 00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:21.520 align:middle line:84% basically, the West heard about it, American and Europe. 00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:23.960 align:middle line:84% Because I think it showed up on Amazon.com or something at 00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:24.820 align:middle line:90% some point. 00:51:24.820 --> 00:51:26.986 align:middle line:84% And of course, there was a gigantic controversy. 00:51:26.986 --> 00:51:29.004 align:middle line:84% The media blew it up completely, 00:51:29.004 --> 00:51:30.932 align:middle line:90% and so then, in Japan-- 00:51:30.932 --> 00:51:34.306 align:middle line:84% was it banned in Japan, I think? 00:51:34.306 --> 00:51:35.270 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No. 00:51:35.270 --> 00:51:35.752 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:51:35.752 --> 00:51:37.633 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But it had been out for a while and no one had 00:51:37.633 --> 00:51:37.753 align:middle line:90% paid attention. 00:51:37.753 --> 00:51:39.182 align:middle line:90% All of a sudden-- 00:51:39.182 --> 00:51:41.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Apparently Japanese politicians started cracking 00:51:41.200 --> 00:51:42.730 align:middle line:90% down on these types of games. 00:51:42.730 --> 00:51:45.270 align:middle line:84% And a lot of fans got really angry and they said this is 00:51:45.270 --> 00:51:49.130 align:middle line:84% just like your Western Euro-centric view, and why is 00:51:49.130 --> 00:51:51.090 align:middle line:84% this backlashing onto us kind of thing. 00:51:51.090 --> 00:51:54.200 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: The only reason why there was a backlash was 00:51:54.200 --> 00:51:56.470 align:middle line:84% because of political attention not 00:51:56.470 --> 00:51:59.880 align:middle line:90% necessarily because of moral-- 00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:02.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A lot of our moral framework is 00:52:02.470 --> 00:52:05.180 align:middle line:90% Judeo-Christian in nature. 00:52:05.180 --> 00:52:08.550 align:middle line:84% I read an entire Wikipedia article on such things 00:52:08.550 --> 00:52:10.720 align:middle line:90% afterwards. 00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:15.120 align:middle line:84% Child pornography, as long as it doesn't actually show the 00:52:15.120 --> 00:52:18.000 align:middle line:84% actors, so representations, animated, 3D, whatever is not 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:20.640 align:middle line:90% illegal in Japan. 00:52:20.640 --> 00:52:24.110 align:middle line:84% And there's no real political pressure 00:52:24.110 --> 00:52:25.720 align:middle line:90% either to make it illegal. 00:52:25.720 --> 00:52:28.090 align:middle line:84% It's just not part of the public consciousness that it's 00:52:28.090 --> 00:52:31.190 align:middle line:84% something that needs to be made illegal. 00:52:31.190 --> 00:52:36.240 align:middle line:84% And the point is not a weird point, completely crazy, that 00:52:36.240 --> 00:52:40.580 align:middle line:84% killing people is probably the worst crime. 00:52:40.580 --> 00:52:42.980 align:middle line:84% And the West makes games that advocate that all the time. 00:52:42.980 --> 00:52:46.312 align:middle line:90% 00:52:46.312 --> 00:52:48.395 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the question of [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:52:48.395 --> 00:52:49.596 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Would there probably be a radio 00:52:49.596 --> 00:52:52.837 align:middle line:90% interview with that answer? 00:52:52.837 --> 00:52:56.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In terms of the question of whether or not a 00:52:56.390 --> 00:52:58.520 align:middle line:84% game crosses the line first assumes that there is a line 00:52:58.520 --> 00:52:59.315 align:middle line:90% to be crossed. 00:52:59.315 --> 00:53:03.710 align:middle line:84% And second, I guess, my answer would be yes there is a line 00:53:03.710 --> 00:53:05.140 align:middle line:84% but that line is basically whether or not 00:53:05.140 --> 00:53:05.990 align:middle line:90% people buy the game. 00:53:05.990 --> 00:53:08.120 align:middle line:84% If people buy the game the game hasn't 00:53:08.120 --> 00:53:10.052 align:middle line:90% really crossed the line. 00:53:10.052 --> 00:53:16.850 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So [UNINTELLIGIBLE], the video reminds me of the 00:53:16.850 --> 00:53:20.440 align:middle line:84% game of 9/11, where you are a person on 00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:21.800 align:middle line:90% one of the top floors-- 00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:22.940 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, and you could jump. 00:53:22.940 --> 00:53:23.530 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:53:23.530 --> 00:53:25.230 align:middle line:84% Well, that's the only way to end the game. 00:53:25.230 --> 00:53:28.340 align:middle line:84% You can go any way you want but there's no escape. 00:53:28.340 --> 00:53:33.785 align:middle line:84% And so the only way to end the game is to jump out a window. 00:53:33.785 --> 00:53:38.784 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: That had the same response. 00:53:38.784 --> 00:53:41.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was just going to say, back on the point of is 00:53:41.510 --> 00:53:42.630 align:middle line:90% there a line or not? 00:53:42.630 --> 00:53:45.060 align:middle line:84% I think the line is not a line on whether it 00:53:45.060 --> 00:53:45.960 align:middle line:90% becomes OK or not. 00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:46.725 align:middle line:90% It's a line between-- 00:53:46.725 --> 00:53:48.690 align:middle line:84% I know we mentioned this before, but-- between 00:53:48.690 --> 00:53:49.940 align:middle line:90% pornography and art. 00:53:49.940 --> 00:53:52.090 align:middle line:90% 00:53:52.090 --> 00:53:55.350 align:middle line:84% There's ways to take pictures of naked human bodies and it's 00:53:55.350 --> 00:53:57.580 align:middle line:84% artful and people respect it and all that. 00:53:57.580 --> 00:54:01.653 align:middle line:84% And there's ways in games to represent killing and rape and 00:54:01.653 --> 00:54:04.790 align:middle line:84% all that kind of stuff in a way that provides a message 00:54:04.790 --> 00:54:07.090 align:middle line:84% within this framework that makes it OK. 00:54:07.090 --> 00:54:09.520 align:middle line:90% And there's games where-- 00:54:09.520 --> 00:54:12.390 align:middle line:84% I think Manhunt is one of these-- where there's no real 00:54:12.390 --> 00:54:15.780 align:middle line:84% point other than just displaying just terrible, 00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:18.940 align:middle line:84% terrible images for the sake of displaying that. 00:54:18.940 --> 00:54:22.610 align:middle line:84% In my mind it's very, very similar to the discussion of 00:54:22.610 --> 00:54:25.858 align:middle line:84% is that image pornography or art? 00:54:25.858 --> 00:54:28.555 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: See, I think that's the right way to go with this 00:54:28.555 --> 00:54:31.030 align:middle line:90% kind of a thing in particular. 00:54:31.030 --> 00:54:34.440 align:middle line:84% I feel that there's this question of is it doing 00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.630 align:middle line:84% anything meaningful in the game other than just being 00:54:36.630 --> 00:54:37.880 align:middle line:90% gratuitous? 00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:39.915 align:middle line:84% And in this case it's definitely, yes. 00:54:39.915 --> 00:54:46.480 align:middle line:84% It progresses the plot, it makes you think, I guess, a 00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:49.570 align:middle line:84% bit about the characters that are involved. 00:54:49.570 --> 00:54:55.120 align:middle line:84% There's character development with Makarov here, it's 00:54:55.120 --> 00:54:57.985 align:middle line:84% showing the shady dealings of the CIA and all 00:54:57.985 --> 00:54:59.340 align:middle line:90% this kind of business. 00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:02.870 align:middle line:84% It's also making a political statement at the same time. 00:55:02.870 --> 00:55:07.410 align:middle line:84% So yeah, it's not just nailing people's eyes to the ceiling 00:55:07.410 --> 00:55:11.622 align:middle line:84% with a nail gun and what have you. 00:55:11.622 --> 00:55:13.613 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was thinking, are there any games that 00:55:13.613 --> 00:55:13.732 align:middle line:90% are over the line? 00:55:13.732 --> 00:55:14.650 align:middle line:84% I could definitely imagine a game that 00:55:14.650 --> 00:55:16.332 align:middle line:90% would be over the line. 00:55:16.332 --> 00:55:20.706 align:middle line:84% You could imagine in RapeLay, or whatever it's called, there 00:55:20.706 --> 00:55:23.622 align:middle line:84% were a customizable character thing that you were 00:55:23.622 --> 00:55:25.274 align:middle line:84% advertising, rape your neighbors or 00:55:25.274 --> 00:55:25.566 align:middle line:90% something like that. 00:55:25.566 --> 00:55:27.510 align:middle line:84% I would be uncomfortable with something like that. 00:55:27.510 --> 00:55:30.110 align:middle line:90% 00:55:30.110 --> 00:55:33.380 align:middle line:84% I almost wanted to say that there is no line if people buy 00:55:33.380 --> 00:55:37.392 align:middle line:84% it, but I feel like there are some things that they would be 00:55:37.392 --> 00:55:39.630 align:middle line:84% over the line regardless of whether people buy it or not. 00:55:39.630 --> 00:55:41.860 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: People might even buy it because they are 00:55:41.860 --> 00:55:43.040 align:middle line:90% over this line. 00:55:43.040 --> 00:55:44.180 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah, of course. 00:55:44.180 --> 00:55:45.890 align:middle line:90% That's why you would buy that. 00:55:45.890 --> 00:55:48.250 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: How many of you have played or seen Super 00:55:48.250 --> 00:55:50.967 align:middle line:90% Columbine Massacre RPG? 00:55:50.967 --> 00:55:53.352 align:middle line:84% How many of you have heard of it? 00:55:53.352 --> 00:55:54.310 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:55:54.310 --> 00:55:57.254 align:middle line:90% Does that game cross the line? 00:55:57.254 --> 00:55:58.652 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Can somebody describe this? 00:55:58.652 --> 00:55:59.118 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:55:59.118 --> 00:56:03.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I mean, I get the idea. from the title. 00:56:03.390 --> 00:56:05.750 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Somebody want to? 00:56:05.750 --> 00:56:13.085 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: It's kind of a Super Nintendo US-style RPG. 00:56:13.085 --> 00:56:17.045 align:middle line:84% It has you walking around in this sort of Final Fantasy 00:56:17.045 --> 00:56:23.320 align:middle line:84% with Nintendo era kind of graphics with quotes and 00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:28.675 align:middle line:84% dialogue that have been collected from the actual news 00:56:28.675 --> 00:56:35.435 align:middle line:90% reports of the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 00:56:35.435 --> 00:56:38.900 align:middle line:90% diaries and stuff like that. 00:56:38.900 --> 00:56:47.645 align:middle line:84% And yeah, it is largely about the events leading up to and 00:56:47.645 --> 00:56:48.800 align:middle line:90% the massacre itself. 00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:52.265 align:middle line:84% Yes, and you do go around-- and I can't remember whether 00:56:52.265 --> 00:56:53.255 align:middle line:90% you actually-- 00:56:53.255 --> 00:56:55.235 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: You do everything. 00:56:55.235 --> 00:56:56.250 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: You shoot everybody. 00:56:56.250 --> 00:56:58.770 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: You have to sneak into the school. 00:56:58.770 --> 00:57:03.370 align:middle line:84% I forget which one you start off as, it's either Kinkel or 00:57:03.370 --> 00:57:05.250 align:middle line:84% Harris, but you pick up your friend. 00:57:05.250 --> 00:57:07.527 align:middle line:84% It's very RPGish in the beginning where you're in the 00:57:07.527 --> 00:57:10.470 align:middle line:84% room because you touch objects and it gives flashbacks to 00:57:10.470 --> 00:57:13.770 align:middle line:84% your friendship with this guy like learning how to make pipe 00:57:13.770 --> 00:57:16.270 align:middle line:84% bombs behind the convenience store. 00:57:16.270 --> 00:57:17.550 align:middle line:84% And you pick him up, you go to the school. 00:57:17.550 --> 00:57:20.470 align:middle line:84% You have to sneak in and plant some bombs. 00:57:20.470 --> 00:57:22.564 align:middle line:84% And after those go off then you move through the school 00:57:22.564 --> 00:57:23.560 align:middle line:90% and you're shooting. 00:57:23.560 --> 00:57:28.042 align:middle line:84% And it's interesting [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 00:57:28.042 --> 00:57:34.870 align:middle line:84% I've showed it to a class once in Ohio, my old school, and 00:57:34.870 --> 00:57:38.050 align:middle line:84% I'm sneaking into the school, right, and there are security 00:57:38.050 --> 00:57:40.130 align:middle line:90% cameras you have to avoid. 00:57:40.130 --> 00:57:43.050 align:middle line:84% And students, you can't be seen by them either. 00:57:43.050 --> 00:57:45.760 align:middle line:84% And there's a point where I'm trying to manipulate the 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.400 align:middle line:84% character and everyone in class is like, oh, 00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:49.590 align:middle line:90% that way, that way. 00:57:49.590 --> 00:57:52.790 align:middle line:84% Oh, oh, you blew it, you got seen, you got kicked out. 00:57:52.790 --> 00:57:55.045 align:middle line:84% And it was like this moment of typical gaming, 00:57:55.045 --> 00:57:56.696 align:middle line:90% like, oh, you did it. 00:57:56.696 --> 00:58:00.300 align:middle line:84% And then you realize, I got kicked out of the school 00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:02.068 align:middle line:84% because I was trying to plant a bomb. 00:58:02.068 --> 00:58:02.640 align:middle line:90% And this was based on 00:58:02.640 --> 00:58:03.980 align:middle line:90% something that really happened. 00:58:03.980 --> 00:58:06.490 align:middle line:84% And it was that moment of like you were saying with the 00:58:06.490 --> 00:58:09.560 align:middle line:84% friendly fire and not sure who you're shooting. 00:58:09.560 --> 00:58:14.250 align:middle line:84% And it was like, wow, this is something that made me think 00:58:14.250 --> 00:58:15.958 align:middle line:84% about what about all those other games where I'm happy to 00:58:15.958 --> 00:58:18.802 align:middle line:84% kill people, and I don't really think about the 00:58:18.802 --> 00:58:19.276 align:middle line:90% consequences. 00:58:19.276 --> 00:58:20.698 align:middle line:84% And this is a game where you are forced to. 00:58:20.698 --> 00:58:22.790 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a really interesting parallel in 00:58:22.790 --> 00:58:26.020 align:middle line:84% a film that I could think of, The Battle of Algiers. 00:58:26.020 --> 00:58:29.985 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you've seen this but there's this scene 00:58:29.985 --> 00:58:36.665 align:middle line:84% where you are following the insurgents who are these two 00:58:36.665 --> 00:58:40.940 align:middle line:84% women who've managed to smuggle bombs into a cafe they 00:58:40.940 --> 00:58:45.685 align:middle line:84% think leaders of the civilians hang out, which is largely 00:58:45.685 --> 00:58:49.680 align:middle line:84% frequented by the ruling class French 00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:51.670 align:middle line:90% section of society there. 00:58:51.670 --> 00:58:55.670 align:middle line:84% And there's this incredibly tense scene where they're 00:58:55.670 --> 00:58:59.835 align:middle line:84% trying to leave their bombs in the cafe without being 00:58:59.835 --> 00:59:01.767 align:middle line:90% detected and get out of there. 00:59:01.767 --> 00:59:03.840 align:middle line:84% And you're like, oh my god, are they going to be 00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:04.670 align:middle line:90% able to make it? 00:59:04.670 --> 00:59:07.369 align:middle line:84% I hope that they can bomb this cafe. 00:59:07.369 --> 00:59:09.301 align:middle line:90% What am I thinking? 00:59:09.301 --> 00:59:11.716 align:middle line:90% This is terrible. 00:59:11.716 --> 00:59:16.546 align:middle line:84% And you definitely have that same kind of tension. 00:59:16.546 --> 00:59:19.900 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I feel like people devote too much emotional 00:59:19.900 --> 00:59:23.910 align:middle line:90% energy into getting offended. 00:59:23.910 --> 00:59:26.410 align:middle line:84% They pour their heart and souls into 00:59:26.410 --> 00:59:28.884 align:middle line:90% getting offended by things. 00:59:28.884 --> 00:59:34.230 align:middle line:84% And the line for me is is it does it advocate and is it 00:59:34.230 --> 00:59:36.540 align:middle line:90% instructional? 00:59:36.540 --> 00:59:39.140 align:middle line:84% If it's not either of those two things it doesn't affect 00:59:39.140 --> 00:59:43.380 align:middle line:84% me really, and if you really want to go out and play some 00:59:43.380 --> 00:59:46.620 align:middle line:84% messed up shit it's none of my business. 00:59:46.620 --> 00:59:49.796 align:middle line:84% And my line is not going to be the same as your line, it's 00:59:49.796 --> 00:59:51.090 align:middle line:84% not going to be the same as someone else's line. 00:59:51.090 --> 00:59:54.600 align:middle line:84% And because there is no human definable line it really 00:59:54.600 --> 00:59:56.940 align:middle line:84% scares me that someone could define a line. 00:59:56.940 --> 01:00:00.820 align:middle line:84% And since I don't like that idea I'd rather say that as 01:00:00.820 --> 01:00:04.970 align:middle line:84% long as it's not like and then you pull back the safety, and 01:00:04.970 --> 01:00:07.500 align:middle line:84% here's how you sneak into the airport, and then here's how 01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:08.510 align:middle line:90% you shoot this. 01:00:08.510 --> 01:00:10.650 align:middle line:84% As long as it's not something like that, and now please go 01:00:10.650 --> 01:00:12.340 align:middle line:84% do it, here's why you should because 01:00:12.340 --> 01:00:14.340 align:middle line:90% America is evil, or whatever. 01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:16.260 align:middle line:84% That would scare me because I think that would be increasing 01:00:16.260 --> 01:00:18.445 align:middle line:84% the chances that someone shoots me up at an airport. 01:00:18.445 --> 01:00:22.840 align:middle line:84% But otherwise, because my attitudes are so liberal and 01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:23.700 align:middle line:84% someone else's attitude is going to be so conservative, 01:00:23.700 --> 01:00:25.764 align:middle line:84% and oh god, someone else's attitude is going to be even 01:00:25.764 --> 01:00:28.405 align:middle line:84% more liberal than mine and be OK with things that I wouldn't 01:00:28.405 --> 01:00:28.820 align:middle line:90% feel comfortable with. 01:00:28.820 --> 01:00:30.590 align:middle line:84% If I was allowed to draw a line, someone else could draw 01:00:30.590 --> 01:00:33.290 align:middle line:84% that somewhere else, either before or after, and that 01:00:33.290 --> 01:00:35.160 align:middle line:90% would just mess everything up. 01:00:35.160 --> 01:00:37.730 align:middle line:84% And so that's how I feel about it. 01:00:37.730 --> 01:00:40.760 align:middle line:84% And I think that the environment right now kind of 01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:43.775 align:middle line:90% tends towards that in that-- 01:00:43.775 --> 01:00:44.310 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]? 01:00:44.310 --> 01:00:44.920 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Huh? 01:00:44.920 --> 01:00:46.050 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: The line drawing? 01:00:46.050 --> 01:00:47.570 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah, in that-- 01:00:47.570 --> 01:00:49.650 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Depends on which line drawing? 01:00:49.650 --> 01:00:51.370 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 01:00:51.370 --> 01:00:53.600 align:middle line:84% People who make games are not intrinsically, on average, 01:00:53.600 --> 01:00:56.193 align:middle line:84% really messed up, and so tend to make stuff that they feel 01:00:56.193 --> 01:00:58.410 align:middle line:90% generally comfortable with. 01:00:58.410 --> 01:01:02.080 align:middle line:84% And those who are messed up, you just draw attention to 01:01:02.080 --> 01:01:05.670 align:middle line:84% them, really, by giving them publicity anyway. 01:01:05.670 --> 01:01:07.545 align:middle line:84% For every person who says that-- 01:01:07.545 --> 01:01:10.840 align:middle line:90% 01:01:10.840 --> 01:01:12.825 align:middle line:84% Diablo 2 got an M rating because of violence. 01:01:12.825 --> 01:01:14.950 align:middle line:84% Now if you look at it today it's like little sprites 01:01:14.950 --> 01:01:16.400 align:middle line:90% whacking at each other. 01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:18.090 align:middle line:84% But that was the line back then. 01:01:18.090 --> 01:01:22.700 align:middle line:84% And if that's the line today then this stuff is absolutely 01:01:22.700 --> 01:01:24.310 align:middle line:84% horrendous and should not be disseminated. 01:01:24.310 --> 01:01:26.950 align:middle line:84% But I think it should be, and someone else might think what 01:01:26.950 --> 01:01:29.410 align:middle line:90% I think is OK is not OK. 01:01:29.410 --> 01:01:33.870 align:middle line:84% It's just going to be what I think is not OK is OK. 01:01:33.870 --> 01:01:35.238 align:middle line:90% It's very complicated. 01:01:35.238 --> 01:01:37.433 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: This guy got death threats. 01:01:37.433 --> 01:01:39.798 align:middle line:90% Apparently seen this game. 01:01:39.798 --> 01:01:46.635 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I'd strongly like to agree with the a lot of 01:01:46.635 --> 01:01:53.240 align:middle line:84% effort being put into the line drawing especially the public 01:01:53.240 --> 01:01:57.548 align:middle line:84% display of, hey, I'm drawing the line here, mostly by 01:01:57.548 --> 01:02:02.690 align:middle line:84% politicians but also by people with some sort of possibly, 01:02:02.690 --> 01:02:06.650 align:middle line:90% often self-interested agenda. 01:02:06.650 --> 01:02:09.900 align:middle line:84% And both by the game industry and by people who 01:02:09.900 --> 01:02:11.770 align:middle line:84% [UNINTELLIGIBLE] the game industry. 01:02:11.770 --> 01:02:19.030 align:middle line:84% It seems like there's more effort either being used to 01:02:19.030 --> 01:02:23.320 align:middle line:84% figure out what is offensive and what is not offensive than 01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:29.770 align:middle line:84% to discuss the need that some things 01:02:29.770 --> 01:02:31.190 align:middle line:90% should be able to offend. 01:02:31.190 --> 01:02:35.430 align:middle line:84% That we should have stuff that needs [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 01:02:35.430 --> 01:02:39.912 align:middle line:90% 01:02:39.912 --> 01:02:43.896 align:middle line:84% There needs to be some stuff that crosses because maybe the 01:02:43.896 --> 01:02:44.900 align:middle line:90% line [INAUDIBLE]. 01:02:44.900 --> 01:02:47.280 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And it's a method to sensitize adults to violence. 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.630 align:middle line:84% There's so much violence these days it'd be better if you 01:02:49.630 --> 01:02:51.686 align:middle line:84% didn't freak out at every little-- 01:02:51.686 --> 01:02:54.674 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think it's totally OK to be 01:02:54.674 --> 01:02:55.490 align:middle line:90% freaked out at things. 01:02:55.490 --> 01:02:56.790 align:middle line:84% I think that you should definitely say when you're 01:02:56.790 --> 01:03:00.016 align:middle line:84% offended by something, and I think that should be open to 01:03:00.016 --> 01:03:05.860 align:middle line:84% debate like whether something is a decent artistic 01:03:05.860 --> 01:03:08.540 align:middle line:84% expression or [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:03:08.540 --> 01:03:12.540 align:middle line:84% So there's a difference between staging that you find 01:03:12.540 --> 01:03:15.290 align:middle line:84% something offensive and attempting to have these 01:03:15.290 --> 01:03:16.460 align:middle line:84% things banned or [INTERPOSING VOICES] 01:03:16.460 --> 01:03:17.546 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I agree. 01:03:17.546 --> 01:03:21.110 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'm totally fine with people wasting words on 01:03:21.110 --> 01:03:22.830 align:middle line:90% saying whether it's-- 01:03:22.830 --> 01:03:24.200 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No clearly. 01:03:24.200 --> 01:03:26.420 align:middle line:84% But as long as because you are offended you think I shouldn't 01:03:26.420 --> 01:03:28.610 align:middle line:84% be able to look at it, that's the problem. 01:03:28.610 --> 01:03:29.540 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 01:03:29.540 --> 01:03:30.250 align:middle line:90% I think it's-- 01:03:30.250 --> 01:03:35.480 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Or even better, if by being offended you get to 01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:38.830 align:middle line:90% now make your point. 01:03:38.830 --> 01:03:41.460 align:middle line:84% This is why it is offensive to me and these are 01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:42.730 align:middle line:90% my reasons for it. 01:03:42.730 --> 01:03:46.110 align:middle line:84% It might be more informative and actually better for 01:03:46.110 --> 01:03:49.900 align:middle line:84% society to get those ideas out into the open. 01:03:49.900 --> 01:03:52.310 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Suppose you get offended by proxy? 01:03:52.310 --> 01:03:56.715 align:middle line:84% It doesn't offend me but I can see how it offends others. 01:03:56.715 --> 01:03:59.910 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: I think there's also a conflation of taking 01:03:59.910 --> 01:04:04.310 align:middle line:84% offense and discomfort because playing these games might be 01:04:04.310 --> 01:04:06.046 align:middle line:90% uncomfortable. 01:04:06.046 --> 01:04:10.385 align:middle line:84% And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing if it 01:04:10.385 --> 01:04:13.110 align:middle line:84% makes you think about, like [UNINTELLIGIBLE] was saying, 01:04:13.110 --> 01:04:15.940 align:middle line:84% or like [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game, this Super Columbine Massacre, 01:04:15.940 --> 01:04:17.740 align:middle line:84% if it makes you think about things in a different way, or 01:04:17.740 --> 01:04:18.650 align:middle line:90% like that film. 01:04:18.650 --> 01:04:21.815 align:middle line:84% And especially games have the ability to provoke that in you 01:04:21.815 --> 01:04:23.430 align:middle line:84% to make you think because you're the one. 01:04:23.430 --> 01:04:24.720 align:middle line:84% Especially these games that force you 01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:25.640 align:middle line:90% to do certain things. 01:04:25.640 --> 01:04:28.546 align:middle line:84% It's like, well, I don't even think about is there a game 01:04:28.546 --> 01:04:31.460 align:middle line:84% that you absolutely refuse to play because there was 01:04:31.460 --> 01:04:33.670 align:middle line:84% something in it that you just really did not want to do? 01:04:33.670 --> 01:04:36.200 align:middle line:90% 01:04:36.200 --> 01:04:37.100 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: That's fine. 01:04:37.100 --> 01:04:38.600 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: OK? 01:04:38.600 --> 01:04:40.100 align:middle line:90% I think we'll end there. 01:04:40.100 --> 01:04:41.350 align:middle line:90%