WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.090 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.090 --> 00:00:02.490 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.490 --> 00:00:04.030 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:04.030 --> 00:00:06.330 align:middle line:84% Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.690 align:middle line:84% continue to offer high quality educational resources for free. 00:00:10.690 --> 00:00:13.320 align:middle line:84% To make a donation or view additional materials 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:17.280 align:middle line:84% from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:20.580 align:middle line:90% at ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:20.580 --> 00:00:25.030 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So today's reading is kind of there for two reasons. 00:00:25.030 --> 00:00:27.600 align:middle line:84% One, the David Parlett reading is 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:30.435 align:middle line:84% to introduce to you this book which is called 00:00:30.435 --> 00:00:31.560 align:middle line:90% The History Of Board Games. 00:00:31.560 --> 00:00:36.190 align:middle line:84% How many of you read the version from Stellar OK. 00:00:36.190 --> 00:00:38.085 align:middle line:84% Anyone get the book from the library? 00:00:38.085 --> 00:00:39.960 align:middle line:84% Because I think it's on reserve if you really 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:44.820 align:middle line:84% want to read a hardback, paper book, 00:00:44.820 --> 00:00:46.560 align:middle line:84% you could just go to a library and you 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:48.227 align:middle line:84% should be able to check it out, probably 00:00:48.227 --> 00:00:49.440 align:middle line:90% from the humanities library. 00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:54.210 align:middle line:84% So I'm just letting you know that that option is out there. 00:00:54.210 --> 00:00:56.130 align:middle line:84% So one of the reasons is; one, just 00:00:56.130 --> 00:01:01.020 align:middle line:84% to introduce to you a bit of what historical research looks 00:01:01.020 --> 00:01:04.102 align:middle line:90% like in game studies. 00:01:04.102 --> 00:01:05.519 align:middle line:84% There are people who have careers, 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:08.670 align:middle line:84% like David Parlett, who basically 00:01:08.670 --> 00:01:12.900 align:middle line:84% go deep into the history of how some kind of game evolved. 00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:15.950 align:middle line:84% One of our old alums, Jason Begy? 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:17.640 align:middle line:90% He looks at railroad games. 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:19.970 align:middle line:84% I'm pretty sure he hasn't changed his thesis topic yet? 00:01:19.970 --> 00:01:24.610 align:middle line:84% Again, he's been looking at that for like three years, four ? 00:01:24.610 --> 00:01:25.235 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:01:25.235 --> 00:01:26.530 align:middle line:90% Three years now. 00:01:26.530 --> 00:01:30.710 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: And so they'll go to museums. 00:01:30.710 --> 00:01:32.936 align:middle line:90% They'll talk to archaeologists. 00:01:32.936 --> 00:01:34.894 align:middle line:84% In the case of railroad games, obviously, there 00:01:34.894 --> 00:01:36.900 align:middle line:90% are no archaeologists involved. 00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:43.340 align:middle line:84% But you talk to people who worked on classic game designs. 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:44.538 align:middle line:90% You talk to retailers. 00:01:44.538 --> 00:01:46.080 align:middle line:84% You talk to people who actually owned 00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:47.860 align:middle line:90% or played some of these games. 00:01:47.860 --> 00:01:51.990 align:middle line:84% And I'm wondering if a lot of the games that are written 00:01:51.990 --> 00:01:56.575 align:middle line:84% in today's reading were kind of ancient-- really, 00:01:56.575 --> 00:01:57.550 align:middle line:90% really ancient-- 00:01:57.550 --> 00:01:58.050 align:middle line:90% games. 00:01:58.050 --> 00:01:59.925 align:middle line:84% But how many of you feel like you've actually 00:01:59.925 --> 00:02:02.220 align:middle line:84% played a game that sounded like one 00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:05.433 align:middle line:90% of those that were written up? 00:02:05.433 --> 00:02:07.600 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well especially they had dreidel in there. 00:02:07.600 --> 00:02:10.289 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Yeah, they had the dreidel in there. 00:02:10.289 --> 00:02:15.290 align:middle line:90% And that's Purim and Hanukkah? 00:02:15.290 --> 00:02:16.580 align:middle line:90% Those are the two-- 00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:17.580 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Just Hanukkah. 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:20.220 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: That was pretty much just Hanukkah. 00:02:20.220 --> 00:02:22.488 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:02:22.488 --> 00:02:24.780 align:middle line:84% It's funny because when I was reading about the dreidel 00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:27.770 align:middle line:84% I was actually; like the initials-- 00:02:27.770 --> 00:02:29.455 align:middle line:90% a great miracle happened there-- 00:02:29.455 --> 00:02:31.580 align:middle line:84% I didn't realize that there was a different version 00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:33.430 align:middle line:84% if you played dreidel in Jerusalem, where 00:02:33.430 --> 00:02:36.000 align:middle line:90% a great thing happened there. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.730 align:middle line:84% Which makes sense for Hanukkah but I don't think-- 00:02:38.730 --> 00:02:41.495 align:middle line:84% that doesn't quite make sense for Purim because-- 00:02:41.495 --> 00:02:42.870 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, it's only Hanukkah. 00:02:42.870 --> 00:02:46.500 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: That's just to do with Jerusalem. 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:48.120 align:middle line:90% All right what else? 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:52.110 align:middle line:84% The other games, the State Board games or-- a lot 00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:58.080 align:middle line:84% of these games border on someone setting up shop on the street 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.883 align:middle line:84% and then if the cops come they run away, 00:03:00.883 --> 00:03:02.341 align:middle line:84% one of those kinds of games, right? 00:03:02.341 --> 00:03:05.730 align:middle line:90% 00:03:05.730 --> 00:03:09.090 align:middle line:84% Let's see, what were some of the other things? 00:03:09.090 --> 00:03:11.280 align:middle line:90% They had a lot of lots. 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:15.420 align:middle line:84% And one of the traditional Roman implements 00:03:15.420 --> 00:03:16.983 align:middle line:90% was the knuckle bone. 00:03:16.983 --> 00:03:19.990 align:middle line:84% I'm not quite sure if they mention what type of animal 00:03:19.990 --> 00:03:20.490 align:middle line:90% it was? 00:03:20.490 --> 00:03:21.032 align:middle line:90% I think was-- 00:03:21.032 --> 00:03:21.714 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Sheep. 00:03:21.714 --> 00:03:24.170 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Sheep or goat, yeah. 00:03:24.170 --> 00:03:27.120 align:middle line:84% But that's where the idea comes from. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:32.130 align:middle line:84% And the idea comes up quite a bit in game studies, at least 00:03:32.130 --> 00:03:34.500 align:middle line:84% since Holsinger's time, since I think 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:39.150 align:middle line:84% the 60s, where it's introduced as a generic term 00:03:39.150 --> 00:03:41.340 align:middle line:90% to describe games of chance. 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:44.280 align:middle line:84% I think the word earlier might also 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:49.920 align:middle line:84% have been used like in traditional Latin scholarship 00:03:49.920 --> 00:03:52.116 align:middle line:90% to describe games of chance. 00:03:52.116 --> 00:03:54.116 align:middle line:84% But that's where you get phrases like alea iacta 00:03:54.116 --> 00:03:59.730 align:middle line:84% est. Does anyone know what that means? 00:03:59.730 --> 00:04:01.220 align:middle line:90% The die is cast. 00:04:01.220 --> 00:04:04.790 align:middle line:90% It is what Julius Caesar-- 00:04:04.790 --> 00:04:07.860 align:middle line:84% Julias Caesar says when he was about to cross 00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:09.600 align:middle line:90% the Rubicon, famously. 00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:14.190 align:middle line:84% And originally there was some confusion 00:04:14.190 --> 00:04:20.279 align:middle line:84% about whether that meant that the die, like dice, has thrown? 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.340 align:middle line:84% Or whether that means that the die; 00:04:23.340 --> 00:04:29.670 align:middle line:84% as in the mold for something that you put liquid iron in, 00:04:29.670 --> 00:04:31.800 align:middle line:90% and then you cast it. 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:36.070 align:middle line:84% But that still has the same sort of sense of, all right, It's 00:04:36.070 --> 00:04:37.070 align:middle line:90% out of our hands, right? 00:04:37.070 --> 00:04:38.028 align:middle line:90% It's already been done. 00:04:38.028 --> 00:04:39.720 align:middle line:90% So I get the same point across. 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.060 align:middle line:84% But actually look at Latin, specifically 00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:44.540 align:middle line:84% talking about these knuckle bones. 00:04:44.540 --> 00:04:48.650 align:middle line:84% These knuckle bones that you are throwing which are called alea. 00:04:48.650 --> 00:04:52.660 align:middle line:90% So now it's up to date. 00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:55.200 align:middle line:84% But Parlett makes an interesting point 00:04:55.200 --> 00:05:05.630 align:middle line:84% that we are trying to simulate something that seems realistic. 00:05:05.630 --> 00:05:08.780 align:middle line:84% That even with your best efforts or with your worst efforts, 00:05:08.780 --> 00:05:12.980 align:middle line:84% sometimes certain things are out of your control. 00:05:12.980 --> 00:05:17.520 align:middle line:84% And simply just describing them as games of chance 00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:19.070 align:middle line:84% might be doing them a disservice. 00:05:19.070 --> 00:05:21.670 align:middle line:84% Because you see the same sort of randomization 00:05:21.670 --> 00:05:25.370 align:middle line:84% that comes up in computer games and things like combat. 00:05:25.370 --> 00:05:28.100 align:middle line:84% Especially strategy games, where there's a chance 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:30.680 align:middle line:84% that something may fail, a chance that something 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:32.690 align:middle line:90% may succeed. 00:05:32.690 --> 00:05:35.390 align:middle line:84% And when you think about games like war games simulations, 00:05:35.390 --> 00:05:39.150 align:middle line:84% they are obviously not trying to create this fantastic 00:05:39.150 --> 00:05:41.700 align:middle line:84% sort of fantasy element, unless you are talking about things 00:05:41.700 --> 00:05:44.990 align:middle line:90% like RPG fire games. 00:05:44.990 --> 00:05:47.490 align:middle line:84% But we're talking about World War II games and things 00:05:47.490 --> 00:05:51.170 align:middle line:84% like that, that are trying very hard to simulate something 00:05:51.170 --> 00:05:52.170 align:middle line:90% that's real. 00:05:52.170 --> 00:05:54.378 align:middle line:84% And one of the things that they're trying to simulate 00:05:54.378 --> 00:05:57.340 align:middle line:84% is sometimes you just don't have control over everything. 00:05:57.340 --> 00:05:59.750 align:middle line:84% And that's where randomisation elements-- 00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:03.200 align:middle line:84% this particular chapter is about dice and other physical things 00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:04.120 align:middle line:90% that you use. 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:05.240 align:middle line:90% We included spinners. 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:09.900 align:middle line:84% We included things that were basically binary. 00:06:09.900 --> 00:06:11.810 align:middle line:84% And that's actually a cute idea, if anybody 00:06:11.810 --> 00:06:15.110 align:middle line:84% wants to think about trying to introduce the Bell Curve to any 00:06:15.110 --> 00:06:17.940 align:middle line:84% of your results without having to be having people 00:06:17.940 --> 00:06:20.190 align:middle line:90% roll a whole bunch of dice. 00:06:20.190 --> 00:06:26.110 align:middle line:84% Or if rolling two dice gives you numbers 2 to 12, 00:06:26.110 --> 00:06:27.620 align:middle line:84% but you wanted a different range, 00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:30.530 align:middle line:84% you could just have them roll a whole bunch of flat sticks 00:06:30.530 --> 00:06:32.250 align:middle line:84% and then it lands one, zero, one zero, 00:06:32.250 --> 00:06:34.130 align:middle line:84% and you still get a nice bell curve. 00:06:34.130 --> 00:06:37.570 align:middle line:84% So that's an idea you can use in your game as well 00:06:37.570 --> 00:06:39.320 align:middle line:84% or you can use things like spinners, which 00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:41.690 align:middle line:84% pretty much just give you the equal chance 00:06:41.690 --> 00:06:44.210 align:middle line:90% no matter which side you land. 00:06:44.210 --> 00:06:47.140 align:middle line:84% And you can make a spinner of arbitrary complexity. 00:06:47.140 --> 00:06:49.370 align:middle line:84% You could make a 20-sided spinner. 00:06:49.370 --> 00:06:54.220 align:middle line:84% It will look basically like a circle but you could. 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:59.430 align:middle line:84% So one thing that Parlett introduces 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:04.340 align:middle line:84% is this idea that games of chance 00:07:04.340 --> 00:07:10.550 align:middle line:84% are also some of games of imperfect information. 00:07:10.550 --> 00:07:12.420 align:middle line:84% Games of perfect and imperfect information, 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:14.520 align:middle line:84% what's the difference between the two of them? 00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:15.470 align:middle line:84% It's the first time we're encountering 00:07:15.470 --> 00:07:16.580 align:middle line:90% these terms in this class. 00:07:16.580 --> 00:07:18.860 align:middle line:84% But I wouldn't want to hazard a guess. 00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:21.580 align:middle line:90% 00:07:21.580 --> 00:07:25.114 align:middle line:84% What's an example of a game of perfect information? 00:07:25.114 --> 00:07:26.242 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Chess. 00:07:26.242 --> 00:07:26.950 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Chess. 00:07:26.950 --> 00:07:28.867 align:middle line:84% That Is a game of perfect information because? 00:07:28.867 --> 00:07:31.440 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Because all of the information 00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:34.412 align:middle line:84% you are going to be using in that game 00:07:34.412 --> 00:07:35.970 align:middle line:90% is right there in front of you. 00:07:35.970 --> 00:07:36.980 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Right. 00:07:36.980 --> 00:07:40.872 align:middle line:84% Players see all the games state, although Parlett says, 00:07:40.872 --> 00:07:42.610 align:middle line:84% but they don't know and one of them 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:45.310 align:middle line:84% got out on the wrong side of bed that morning. 00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:47.800 align:middle line:84% They don't necessarily know how experienced each other is, 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:50.920 align:middle line:84% and that's kind of weird is that part of the game 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:52.990 align:middle line:84% was the outside of the game, right? 00:07:52.990 --> 00:07:55.600 align:middle line:84% And other examples of games of perfect or imperfect 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:57.016 align:middle line:90% information? 00:07:57.016 --> 00:07:59.810 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Go is imperfect information. 00:07:59.810 --> 00:08:01.822 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Imperfect, which would-- 00:08:01.822 --> 00:08:03.280 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Poker would be imperfect. 00:08:03.280 --> 00:08:05.560 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Poker would be imperfect because you-- 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:07.340 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You don't know the deck, 00:08:07.340 --> 00:08:09.847 align:middle line:84% you don't know what's in your opponent's hand, 00:08:09.847 --> 00:08:10.540 align:middle line:90% stuff like that. 00:08:10.540 --> 00:08:11.915 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Does poker always have 00:08:11.915 --> 00:08:13.990 align:middle line:90% to be played with a single deck? 00:08:13.990 --> 00:08:15.102 align:middle line:90% All 52 cards? 00:08:15.102 --> 00:08:17.156 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You could even not know how many cards, 00:08:17.156 --> 00:08:17.760 align:middle line:90% how many decks there are. 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:19.093 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: OK, you may not know. 00:08:19.093 --> 00:08:21.580 align:middle line:90% So that's a question too. 00:08:21.580 --> 00:08:23.010 align:middle line:84% When typically we play it at home, 00:08:23.010 --> 00:08:24.860 align:middle line:84% it's just one deck of cards of 52. 00:08:24.860 --> 00:08:27.250 align:middle line:84% You know that you're holding the King of spades. 00:08:27.250 --> 00:08:30.280 align:middle line:84% There's no other King of spades out there. 00:08:30.280 --> 00:08:33.130 align:middle line:84% But you play in some casinos, and they've 00:08:33.130 --> 00:08:36.345 align:middle line:84% got a five deck mix, there could be two kings in spades. 00:08:36.345 --> 00:08:39.419 align:middle line:90% 00:08:39.419 --> 00:08:41.485 align:middle line:90% Yeah? 00:08:41.485 --> 00:08:43.360 align:middle line:84% Poker is all about trying to figure out 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.290 align:middle line:84% what other people have, and what's the chances. 00:08:47.290 --> 00:08:49.420 align:middle line:84% Actually, you already know what other people have, 00:08:49.420 --> 00:08:52.000 align:middle line:84% but it's all trying to read what's the chances that they've 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:57.610 align:middle line:84% got something, plus what's the chances of your hand beating 00:08:57.610 --> 00:08:58.110 align:middle line:90% that? 00:08:58.110 --> 00:08:59.800 align:middle line:84% Because it's all the variance in poker, 00:08:59.800 --> 00:09:01.217 align:middle line:84% like Texas hold'em and everything, 00:09:01.217 --> 00:09:04.700 align:middle line:84% which have other kinds of cards that nobody gets to see, 00:09:04.700 --> 00:09:06.670 align:middle line:90% that everyone gets to see. 00:09:06.670 --> 00:09:09.480 align:middle line:84% So perfect and imperfect information 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.130 align:middle line:84% is kind of like a sledge hammer to deal with this, 00:09:12.130 --> 00:09:13.970 align:middle line:90% because you're not quite sure. 00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:16.540 align:middle line:84% Like random numbers or random cards that you're 00:09:16.540 --> 00:09:18.410 align:middle line:84% drawing from the five card stack, 00:09:18.410 --> 00:09:20.680 align:middle line:84% or random numbers that you're rolling out of a die 00:09:20.680 --> 00:09:22.930 align:middle line:84% is a very, very different quality 00:09:22.930 --> 00:09:25.630 align:middle line:84% to that piece of information than a card 00:09:25.630 --> 00:09:28.630 align:middle line:84% that somebody is holding and not revealing to everybody else, 00:09:28.630 --> 00:09:32.110 align:middle line:84% because it that's a fixed quantity. 00:09:32.110 --> 00:09:34.660 align:middle line:84% It's something that was dealt in the past, 00:09:34.660 --> 00:09:38.993 align:middle line:84% and Parlett describes it as sort of past imperfect information. 00:09:38.993 --> 00:09:40.910 align:middle line:84% And then there's future imperfect information, 00:09:40.910 --> 00:09:43.710 align:middle line:84% you're going to roll it and then and only then 00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:47.090 align:middle line:84% is that information generated even though no one knew it. 00:09:47.090 --> 00:09:48.850 align:middle line:90% No one knows that number. 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:52.120 align:middle line:84% So there's a scholar called Celia Pearce over 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.720 align:middle line:84% in Georgia Tech, and she came up with a taxonomy 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:58.870 align:middle line:84% just to help her discuss this with her design teams, 00:09:58.870 --> 00:10:01.100 align:middle line:84% and I thought it was really, really useful. 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:04.390 align:middle line:84% So instead of saying imperfect and perfect information, 00:10:04.390 --> 00:10:07.050 align:middle line:84% we start off with what the obvious one, 00:10:07.050 --> 00:10:08.350 align:middle line:90% which is public information. 00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:12.478 align:middle line:84% Games of perfect information and games of-- 00:10:12.478 --> 00:10:14.020 align:middle line:84% all information is public, everything 00:10:14.020 --> 00:10:15.340 align:middle line:90% is public information. 00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:20.860 align:middle line:84% The state of a board in chess or in checkers, or probably 00:10:20.860 --> 00:10:23.530 align:middle line:84% fun computer games where this is the case as well, 00:10:23.530 --> 00:10:27.550 align:middle line:84% although multiplayer computer games-- 00:10:27.550 --> 00:10:29.653 align:middle line:90% but nothing comes to mind-- 00:10:29.653 --> 00:10:31.570 align:middle line:84% a of computer games take advantage of the fact 00:10:31.570 --> 00:10:32.987 align:middle line:84% that everyone has their own screen 00:10:32.987 --> 00:10:35.140 align:middle line:90% to do imperfect information. 00:10:35.140 --> 00:10:39.310 align:middle line:84% So when you start jumping into the realm of imperfect 00:10:39.310 --> 00:10:43.910 align:middle line:84% information that's private, which 00:10:43.910 --> 00:10:46.670 align:middle line:84% is the stuff that one person, at least one person 00:10:46.670 --> 00:10:49.688 align:middle line:84% knows for sure, possibly, if you're playing a team game, 00:10:49.688 --> 00:10:51.980 align:middle line:84% there's more than one person who knows this information 00:10:51.980 --> 00:10:53.168 align:middle line:90% for sure. 00:10:53.168 --> 00:10:54.710 align:middle line:84% If you're playing a game like bridge, 00:10:54.710 --> 00:11:00.880 align:middle line:84% where you're sort of communicating, but in codes-- 00:11:00.880 --> 00:11:03.313 align:middle line:84% if you've been playing with someone for a long time, 00:11:03.313 --> 00:11:04.730 align:middle line:84% you can get to the situation where 00:11:04.730 --> 00:11:06.188 align:middle line:84% even though I can't see your cards, 00:11:06.188 --> 00:11:07.838 align:middle line:84% I pretty much know what cards you have 00:11:07.838 --> 00:11:09.380 align:middle line:84% because you're my teammate and you're 00:11:09.380 --> 00:11:12.222 align:middle line:84% trying to communicate with me in a way that I understand. 00:11:12.222 --> 00:11:15.910 align:middle line:90% 00:11:15.910 --> 00:11:20.180 align:middle line:84% There's random information which is stuff 00:11:20.180 --> 00:11:26.015 align:middle line:84% that you get from, say, drawing from the top of five 00:11:26.015 --> 00:11:30.530 align:middle line:84% stack deck of poker cards, or something that you 00:11:30.530 --> 00:11:32.540 align:middle line:90% get from rolling a die. 00:11:32.540 --> 00:11:34.640 align:middle line:84% Stuff that you can't really intuit, 00:11:34.640 --> 00:11:37.258 align:middle line:84% what Parlett calls future imperfect. 00:11:37.258 --> 00:11:39.800 align:middle line:84% Things that will be thought of, for all intents and purposes, 00:11:39.800 --> 00:11:43.680 align:middle line:84% that information introduced the moment 00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:47.780 align:middle line:84% you trigger that rendering-- that randomizing method. 00:11:47.780 --> 00:11:50.831 align:middle line:84% The moment you throw the dreidel, spin the dreidel, 00:11:50.831 --> 00:11:51.815 align:middle line:90% roll the dreidel? 00:11:51.815 --> 00:11:53.190 align:middle line:90% It spins, OK. 00:11:53.190 --> 00:11:55.490 align:middle line:84% The moment you throw the knucklebones, whatever it is, 00:11:55.490 --> 00:11:58.480 align:middle line:84% that's the moment when the information gets generated. 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.520 align:middle line:84% There may be some probability in how 00:12:01.520 --> 00:12:03.020 align:middle line:90% you expect this to work out. 00:12:03.020 --> 00:12:04.700 align:middle line:84% Like if you're rolling two dice, you 00:12:04.700 --> 00:12:07.030 align:middle line:84% expect number 7 to be the most likely outcome, 00:12:07.030 --> 00:12:11.312 align:middle line:84% and number 2 and number 12 could be the least likely outcomes. 00:12:11.312 --> 00:12:12.770 align:middle line:84% But that information doesn't really 00:12:12.770 --> 00:12:15.330 align:middle line:84% exist until the moment it's generated. 00:12:15.330 --> 00:12:18.960 align:middle line:90% 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.760 align:middle line:90% So what's missing? 00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:27.098 align:middle line:90% 00:12:27.098 --> 00:12:33.195 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There's information that's computable out there, 00:12:33.195 --> 00:12:35.042 align:middle line:84% so, for instance, when you're playing 00:12:35.042 --> 00:12:36.630 align:middle line:90% cards or something like that. 00:12:36.630 --> 00:12:38.870 align:middle line:84% I know technically that the rules 00:12:38.870 --> 00:12:41.860 align:middle line:84% are you can't see the round that's in play, 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:44.530 align:middle line:84% but there's information which, if you were at a computer 00:12:44.530 --> 00:12:46.440 align:middle line:84% you would remember this information, 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.850 align:middle line:84% but oftentimes it's a fact that you can't actually remember it. 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:53.020 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: The stuff that's hard to remember, 00:12:53.020 --> 00:12:57.180 align:middle line:90% the stuff that like-- 00:12:57.180 --> 00:12:59.180 align:middle line:84% let me see if I'm hearing you right. 00:12:59.180 --> 00:13:02.570 align:middle line:84% So for instance, the game off blackjack to a card 00:13:02.570 --> 00:13:05.300 align:middle line:84% counter is a very different game of blackjack for someone 00:13:05.300 --> 00:13:07.380 align:middle line:84% who sits down and plays for one round. 00:13:07.380 --> 00:13:07.880 align:middle line:90% Right? 00:13:07.880 --> 00:13:10.960 align:middle line:84% Because the game of blackjack for a card counter 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.270 align:middle line:84% is aware that this five stack deck of cards 00:13:14.270 --> 00:13:17.120 align:middle line:84% has had a certain number of cards played out of it. 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.750 align:middle line:84% And knowing, being able to remember how much has he played 00:13:20.750 --> 00:13:23.930 align:middle line:84% out of it has changed the actual percentage 00:13:23.930 --> 00:13:27.110 align:middle line:90% of what could come out. 00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:30.540 align:middle line:84% So what's been played before is technically public information. 00:13:30.540 --> 00:13:33.132 align:middle line:84% So previous rounds that were played out in the open, 00:13:33.132 --> 00:13:35.090 align:middle line:84% if you were really, really paying attention you 00:13:35.090 --> 00:13:36.465 align:middle line:84% could have seen that information. 00:13:36.465 --> 00:13:38.128 align:middle line:84% It's hard to remember, but you could 00:13:38.128 --> 00:13:40.670 align:middle line:84% have if you were a computer, if you're a video tape recorder, 00:13:40.670 --> 00:13:43.160 align:middle line:84% you would to be able to see that information. 00:13:43.160 --> 00:13:44.660 align:middle line:84% But then there's all the other cards 00:13:44.660 --> 00:13:49.130 align:middle line:84% left in this stack that's already been shuffled, 00:13:49.130 --> 00:13:51.830 align:middle line:84% and it's kind of in a fixed order. 00:13:51.830 --> 00:13:54.567 align:middle line:84% It was randomized before they shuffled it, 00:13:54.567 --> 00:13:56.400 align:middle line:84% so then not it's been shuffled and it's just 00:13:56.400 --> 00:13:58.790 align:middle line:90% sitting on a stack. 00:13:58.790 --> 00:14:03.577 align:middle line:84% That's what Pearce calls hidden information. 00:14:03.577 --> 00:14:05.660 align:middle line:84% It doesn't even have to be like a five stack deck, 00:14:05.660 --> 00:14:08.960 align:middle line:84% it could be just the three cards that were dealt face down 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:12.960 align:middle line:84% at the beginning-- is it three cards for Texas hold'em? 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.460 align:middle line:90% Two? 00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:16.460 align:middle line:84% OK, the two cards that are dealt face down in the center, nobody 00:14:16.460 --> 00:14:18.552 align:middle line:84% gets to see that until right at the end. 00:14:18.552 --> 00:14:21.612 align:middle line:90% 00:14:21.612 --> 00:14:23.570 align:middle line:84% But they're dealt at the beginning of the game, 00:14:23.570 --> 00:14:25.130 align:middle line:90% like in the second hand or-- 00:14:25.130 --> 00:14:26.152 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: The public? 00:14:26.152 --> 00:14:26.860 align:middle line:90% The public cards? 00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:28.090 align:middle line:90% Oh, that's three. 00:14:28.090 --> 00:14:29.090 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Three, right. 00:14:29.090 --> 00:14:31.425 align:middle line:90% And they're down, right? 00:14:31.425 --> 00:14:33.580 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: After the first round, they're face up. 00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:35.630 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: After the first round they-- 00:14:35.630 --> 00:14:37.480 align:middle line:90% Yeah, that's right. 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:39.290 align:middle line:84% It's a long time since I played hold 'em. 00:14:39.290 --> 00:14:42.420 align:middle line:84% So three cards, they're face down, but they've been dealt. 00:14:42.420 --> 00:14:45.470 align:middle line:84% So the randomizing, they have been triggered, 00:14:45.470 --> 00:14:48.449 align:middle line:84% the information is there, but no one knows it yet. 00:14:48.449 --> 00:14:50.366 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In other words, not really different 00:14:50.366 --> 00:14:51.740 align:middle line:90% from random information. 00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:53.716 align:middle line:84% Like the difference between like, 00:14:53.716 --> 00:14:56.186 align:middle line:84% I haven't actually dealt the card yet, 00:14:56.186 --> 00:14:59.150 align:middle line:84% and I've dealt the card and no one's sees it. 00:14:59.150 --> 00:15:01.620 align:middle line:84% It seems like hidden information that no one 00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:03.430 align:middle line:84% knows is equivalent to random, like it's 00:15:03.430 --> 00:15:04.930 align:middle line:84% hidden information that's equivalent 00:15:04.930 --> 00:15:07.070 align:middle line:90% to random information. 00:15:07.070 --> 00:15:08.000 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Not quite. 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.860 align:middle line:84% There is a different quality with it, 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:12.140 align:middle line:84% because that variable can no longer 00:15:12.140 --> 00:15:15.350 align:middle line:90% change in the rest of the game. 00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:18.500 align:middle line:84% Maybe the Texas Hold em one starts to get a little blurry, 00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:19.385 align:middle line:90% and it's-- 00:15:19.385 --> 00:15:21.605 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But random information, like-- 00:15:21.605 --> 00:15:25.170 align:middle line:90% 00:15:25.170 --> 00:15:28.530 align:middle line:84% it's like players can treat-- like you 00:15:28.530 --> 00:15:29.850 align:middle line:90% can't treat it any different. 00:15:29.850 --> 00:15:32.880 align:middle line:84% Just because like if for some reason 00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:35.208 align:middle line:84% we've decided that we were, let's say 00:15:35.208 --> 00:15:37.080 align:middle line:84% I had a die-rolling-- let's say I wrote 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.360 align:middle line:84% a die-rolling program and the random seed, 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.110 align:middle line:84% and you are right-- no one knows what the next random seed was 00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:45.230 align:middle line:84% until what the next die-roll showed them. 00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:47.688 align:middle line:84% And you could say this is hidden information and not random 00:15:47.688 --> 00:15:50.580 align:middle line:84% information because the random seed i-- it already knows the-- 00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:51.340 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Yeah, if you knew the seed 00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:53.180 align:middle line:84% and you knew the randomisation algorithm, 00:15:53.180 --> 00:15:54.150 align:middle line:84% then I would argue that information 00:15:54.150 --> 00:15:55.170 align:middle line:90% is no longer random. 00:15:55.170 --> 00:15:56.900 align:middle line:84% That's why they call it pseudo-random. 00:15:56.900 --> 00:15:58.920 align:middle line:84% It's not actually random anymore. 00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:01.088 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But it's random in the sense that no-one-- 00:16:01.088 --> 00:16:03.380 align:middle line:84% it's random with regards to players so that players can 00:16:03.380 --> 00:16:05.922 align:middle line:84% treat it as random information, because they don't know how-- 00:16:05.922 --> 00:16:09.372 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: You can treat it as random information. 00:16:09.372 --> 00:16:12.880 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So if you deal two cards out, face down 00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:15.945 align:middle line:84% in the deck, then at the time when you're dealing 00:16:15.945 --> 00:16:17.243 align:middle line:90% the first one, it's random? 00:16:17.243 --> 00:16:17.868 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:16:17.868 --> 00:16:22.375 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But then the card that's the first one 00:16:22.375 --> 00:16:24.300 align:middle line:84% is a card that's already in play, 00:16:24.300 --> 00:16:25.800 align:middle line:84% and so when you take the second one, 00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:30.620 align:middle line:84% that card has a smaller phase of possibility. 00:16:30.620 --> 00:16:32.790 align:middle line:84% There is a specific card that that second one 00:16:32.790 --> 00:16:34.988 align:middle line:90% can't beat, the first one. 00:16:34.988 --> 00:16:37.530 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But we don't have to see it that way, we can just-- 00:16:37.530 --> 00:16:40.080 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: What I'm saying is that if you want to-- 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.695 align:middle line:84% if you deal one card and you want 00:16:42.695 --> 00:16:46.380 align:middle line:84% to reproduce the exact same situation elsewhere and then 00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:49.637 align:middle line:84% continue dealing from the deck, then maybe you're 00:16:49.637 --> 00:16:51.970 align:middle line:84% going to shuffle the deck before you deal a second card, 00:16:51.970 --> 00:16:53.906 align:middle line:84% and then that new card is random-- 00:16:53.906 --> 00:16:58.035 align:middle line:84% the second card-- except it's random out of a smaller 00:16:58.035 --> 00:16:59.070 align:middle line:90% possibility. 00:16:59.070 --> 00:17:03.820 align:middle line:84% And it's not just random because there is hidden information 00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:06.869 align:middle line:90% that the-- 00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:08.331 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: That's one other thing 00:17:08.331 --> 00:17:10.380 align:middle line:84% that you're not taking into consideration, 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:13.810 align:middle line:84% and that's the fact that before-- 00:17:13.810 --> 00:17:17.579 align:middle line:84% after these three cards in Texas hold'em are dealt out face 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:19.329 align:middle line:84% down, there was no a chance to look at it, 00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:21.870 align:middle line:84% but everyone's gotten a chance to see some of the cards that 00:17:21.870 --> 00:17:25.349 align:middle line:84% already have been dealt. And that has already changed 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:29.130 align:middle line:84% the likelihood of what that card could be down, because-- 00:17:29.130 --> 00:17:33.395 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Just because something isn't perfectly uniformly 00:17:33.395 --> 00:17:36.622 align:middle line:84% random, chosen from the distribution of everything, 00:17:36.622 --> 00:17:38.080 align:middle line:84% doesn't mean it's not still random. 00:17:38.080 --> 00:17:39.870 align:middle line:84% So what I'm saying is just because like-- 00:17:39.870 --> 00:17:44.500 align:middle line:84% so if I deal a face down cards, and then I 00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:47.280 align:middle line:84% throw a face up card that's the five of diamonds, 00:17:47.280 --> 00:17:49.600 align:middle line:84% even though I know it's a face down card, 00:17:49.600 --> 00:17:51.590 align:middle line:84% it's not the five of diamond, it's still random 00:17:51.590 --> 00:17:53.716 align:middle line:84% because it's now drawn from an equivalent 00:17:53.716 --> 00:17:57.044 align:middle line:90% of random information, yeah. 00:17:57.044 --> 00:17:59.434 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I mean, this is perfect Schrodinger's cat, 00:17:59.434 --> 00:17:59.934 align:middle line:90% isn't it? 00:17:59.934 --> 00:18:01.809 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: No, it's not, because what happens 00:18:01.809 --> 00:18:03.480 align:middle line:84% is that you keep getting new cards 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.030 align:middle line:84% throughout the entire game, right? 00:18:06.030 --> 00:18:09.313 align:middle line:84% And these cards slowly get revealed. 00:18:09.313 --> 00:18:12.280 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I see that there is a distinction made between random 00:18:12.280 --> 00:18:17.060 align:middle line:84% and hidden for the purposes of the classification of games. 00:18:17.060 --> 00:18:19.770 align:middle line:84% There's probably a useful reason for it. 00:18:19.770 --> 00:18:22.950 align:middle line:84% I mean, sure, you can think of it as like now there's 00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:25.200 align:middle line:84% pendence between different cards and things like that, 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.660 align:middle line:84% was probably just there for a useful way 00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:29.130 align:middle line:90% of thinking about games. 00:18:29.130 --> 00:18:31.436 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: What I'm saying is I don't think it's useful, 00:18:31.436 --> 00:18:33.352 align:middle line:84% and I think it's a kind of predicament. 00:18:33.352 --> 00:18:35.490 align:middle line:84% I think that there's different relationships. 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:38.340 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I'm not talking about statistical difference. 00:18:38.340 --> 00:18:42.300 align:middle line:84% I'm talking about what the players think about these three 00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:43.050 align:middle line:90% cards. 00:18:43.050 --> 00:18:44.970 align:middle line:84% They know the three cards are not being 00:18:44.970 --> 00:18:47.290 align:middle line:90% re-dealt every single hand. 00:18:47.290 --> 00:18:51.750 align:middle line:84% They know that no one can say, for instance, like someone 00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:56.670 align:middle line:84% can take the deck and shuffle it in the middle of a poker game. 00:18:56.670 --> 00:18:58.800 align:middle line:90% No one complains about that. 00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:00.310 align:middle line:90% You're allowed to do that. 00:19:00.310 --> 00:19:04.650 align:middle line:84% You can't re-deal another three cards. 00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:06.030 align:middle line:90% You're not allowed to. 00:19:06.030 --> 00:19:07.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It doesn't change the probability distribution. 00:19:07.260 --> 00:19:08.780 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: It doesn't the probability distribution 00:19:08.780 --> 00:19:10.260 align:middle line:90% but you're not allowed to. 00:19:10.260 --> 00:19:14.590 align:middle line:84% The rules do not allow you to re-deal those three cards. 00:19:14.590 --> 00:19:17.788 align:middle line:84% There is a different weight that the rules 00:19:17.788 --> 00:19:19.330 align:middle line:84% have placed on those three cards that 00:19:19.330 --> 00:19:21.920 align:middle line:84% have been dealt saying those things are now fixed, 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.096 align:middle line:84% whereas everything in that deck can be re-ordered. 00:19:25.096 --> 00:19:28.290 align:middle line:90% 00:19:28.290 --> 00:19:30.160 align:middle line:90% Your hand and your hand. 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: For a different example, 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:38.860 align:middle line:84% is the game Clue, where you have like this one item, the one 00:19:38.860 --> 00:19:42.220 align:middle line:84% person and the one room, and that is the way to getting it. 00:19:42.220 --> 00:19:44.720 align:middle line:84% In some senses it's random, but it 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.272 align:middle line:84% determines who wins the game, and so in that sense 00:19:47.272 --> 00:19:50.440 align:middle line:84% it's like you wouldn't think if it as random necessarily, 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.932 align:middle line:84% and while your rolling to move around and discover 00:19:53.932 --> 00:19:55.140 align:middle line:90% these things would be random. 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:57.040 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: And that is actually also 00:19:57.040 --> 00:19:59.950 align:middle line:84% statistically different example, but a much clearer example 00:19:59.950 --> 00:20:00.970 align:middle line:90% of hidden information. 00:20:00.970 --> 00:20:03.497 align:middle line:84% Because that one, as you play the game, 00:20:03.497 --> 00:20:05.080 align:middle line:84% you are getting more and more and more 00:20:05.080 --> 00:20:07.450 align:middle line:84% information about what those cards could be. 00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:09.283 align:middle line:84% In fact, that's the whole point of the game, 00:20:09.283 --> 00:20:12.360 align:middle line:84% right, is trying to figure out what's in there. 00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:13.930 align:middle line:84% So in that particular case, that's 00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:17.050 align:middle line:84% hidden information that's random at the point 00:20:17.050 --> 00:20:19.930 align:middle line:84% when it was generated, but after that it is-- 00:20:19.930 --> 00:20:21.790 align:middle line:84% but as soon as people start playing, 00:20:21.790 --> 00:20:24.830 align:middle line:84% start making accusations, it's no longer random, 00:20:24.830 --> 00:20:27.210 align:middle line:90% it's just hidden information. 00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:30.110 align:middle line:84% So yeah, Clue is a much better example of that. 00:20:30.110 --> 00:20:33.100 align:middle line:84% Maybe the three cards and the Texas hold 'em are different. 00:20:33.100 --> 00:20:35.555 align:middle line:84% I still maintain that the quality of these-- 00:20:35.555 --> 00:20:37.180 align:middle line:84% they may not be statistically different 00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:38.950 align:middle line:84% but they are qualitatively different, 00:20:38.950 --> 00:20:42.760 align:middle line:84% because you can never re-randomize those cards 00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:43.835 align:middle line:90% according to the rules. 00:20:43.835 --> 00:20:45.710 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's something players think about, 00:20:45.710 --> 00:20:47.040 align:middle line:90% not because they're-- 00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:49.316 align:middle line:84% I think the reason different players think about them 00:20:49.316 --> 00:20:50.238 align:middle line:90% differently is that-- 00:20:50.238 --> 00:20:51.280 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Well, that's-- 00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:52.670 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: That's not true. 00:20:52.670 --> 00:20:54.030 align:middle line:90% That's just not true. 00:20:54.030 --> 00:20:56.450 align:middle line:84% The cards are down and they're down. 00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:58.719 align:middle line:90% You cannot un-put them down. 00:20:58.719 --> 00:21:02.511 align:middle line:84% So qualitatively, they are completely different. 00:21:02.511 --> 00:21:06.447 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: When they're exactly the same, did you re-deal-- 00:21:06.447 --> 00:21:07.280 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:21:07.280 --> 00:21:09.285 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: OK, he had his hand up first, 00:21:09.285 --> 00:21:12.194 align:middle line:84% so let me get with him first and then we'll get back to you. 00:21:12.194 --> 00:21:14.402 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It's actually also statistically different, 00:21:14.402 --> 00:21:18.390 align:middle line:84% because let me just simplify the poker example a lot. 00:21:18.390 --> 00:21:20.580 align:middle line:84% Let's say that we take one card from the deck 00:21:20.580 --> 00:21:24.060 align:middle line:84% and put it face-down, and then we flip a second card 00:21:24.060 --> 00:21:26.650 align:middle line:90% so that everyone sees it. 00:21:26.650 --> 00:21:28.260 align:middle line:84% And then, let's say someone gets it 00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:30.295 align:middle line:84% into their head to take that one card that 00:21:30.295 --> 00:21:31.850 align:middle line:84% was hidden, and shuffle it back in 00:21:31.850 --> 00:21:34.610 align:middle line:84% and deal a new one, that actually does-- 00:21:34.610 --> 00:21:36.610 align:middle line:84% The two situations where you do that 00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:38.090 align:middle line:84% and where you don't are different, 00:21:38.090 --> 00:21:44.630 align:middle line:84% because in the first situation, the card that was hidden 00:21:44.630 --> 00:21:49.860 align:middle line:84% had a equal probability over all 52 cards and followed-- 00:21:49.860 --> 00:21:52.420 align:middle line:84% and when you get one piece, the extra piece of information, 00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:55.210 align:middle line:84% after that your adjusted probability distribution is 00:21:55.210 --> 00:21:57.920 align:middle line:90% equal over the 51 cards. 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.520 align:middle line:84% However, if you reveal that one card and then take it back, 00:22:02.520 --> 00:22:05.380 align:middle line:90% then if someone-- 00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:08.430 align:middle line:84% you don't necessarily have that card visible to everyone, 00:22:08.430 --> 00:22:09.750 align:middle line:90% for example-- 00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:12.660 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: But it's true that the example-- 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:16.130 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Two or three cards, it would be the same. 00:22:16.130 --> 00:22:17.680 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Yeah, you are describing 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:19.180 align:middle line:84% a situation where someone's actually 00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:24.450 align:middle line:84% had a chance to actually look at that card, face-down, yeah. 00:22:24.450 --> 00:22:26.980 align:middle line:84% And that does change things because that 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:30.040 align:middle line:84% becomes private information to someone else. 00:22:30.040 --> 00:22:33.690 align:middle line:84% So that takes it kind of outside of the realm of example, 00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:36.580 align:middle line:84% but yeah, I do agree that statistically there's 00:22:36.580 --> 00:22:38.260 align:middle line:84% not actually a huge amount of difference 00:22:38.260 --> 00:22:39.580 align:middle line:84% between the cards that are face-down 00:22:39.580 --> 00:22:41.122 align:middle line:84% and the cards that you're drawing off 00:22:41.122 --> 00:22:43.180 align:middle line:90% the top of the deck. 00:22:43.180 --> 00:22:45.561 align:middle line:84% And then get your hand and then your hand. 00:22:45.561 --> 00:22:48.186 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So the problem I have is first of all, statistically, 00:22:48.186 --> 00:22:49.267 align:middle line:90% there's no difference. 00:22:49.267 --> 00:22:51.920 align:middle line:84% Not a little difference, there's no difference. 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.778 align:middle line:84% And so as a player, you sort of think 00:22:54.778 --> 00:22:56.909 align:middle line:84% about cards that are faced a little bit differently 00:22:56.909 --> 00:22:58.242 align:middle line:90% than cards that are in the deck. 00:22:58.242 --> 00:23:00.489 align:middle line:84% But if I'm playing to win, ultimately I 00:23:00.489 --> 00:23:02.194 align:middle line:84% have to think of them as mostly random. 00:23:02.194 --> 00:23:02.861 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Sure. 00:23:02.861 --> 00:23:05.403 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Like I have to think of them as what would probably 00:23:05.403 --> 00:23:07.160 align:middle line:90% be distributions of the cards. 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:08.660 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Strategically, you could, 00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:10.190 align:middle line:84% it's probably advantageous for you 00:23:10.190 --> 00:23:12.830 align:middle line:84% to think that they're the same statistical, 00:23:12.830 --> 00:23:15.140 align:middle line:90% difference because they are. 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:17.510 align:middle line:84% And I'm not disagreeing that statistically they 00:23:17.510 --> 00:23:18.920 align:middle line:90% have the same likelihood there. 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:21.170 align:middle line:84% I'm saying that in terms of how the rules are worded, 00:23:21.170 --> 00:23:22.630 align:middle line:90% they are very different. 00:23:22.630 --> 00:23:24.796 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: OK, so does the use of this definition 00:23:24.796 --> 00:23:26.796 align:middle line:84% come in when you're like just writing the rules? 00:23:26.796 --> 00:23:28.985 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: When you're designing a game. 00:23:28.985 --> 00:23:30.860 align:middle line:84% Not necessarily when you're playing the game, 00:23:30.860 --> 00:23:32.256 align:middle line:84% but when you're designing the game. 00:23:32.256 --> 00:23:32.970 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: One thing to think about 00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:34.985 align:middle line:84% is is when we were talking about that clear example, 00:23:34.985 --> 00:23:36.568 align:middle line:84% when you have something that's hidden, 00:23:36.568 --> 00:23:38.710 align:middle line:84% you can possibly gain information about it that 00:23:38.710 --> 00:23:39.937 align:middle line:90% will be useful, right? 00:23:39.937 --> 00:23:42.020 align:middle line:84% You gain information about what that Clue card is. 00:23:42.020 --> 00:23:44.187 align:middle line:84% There's no way you're ever going to gain information 00:23:44.187 --> 00:23:46.460 align:middle line:84% about what the next roll of the die is going to be, 00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:48.960 align:middle line:84% unless you're doing some kind of major statistical analysis. 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:50.210 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: But that's possible. 00:23:50.210 --> 00:23:53.207 align:middle line:90% 00:23:53.207 --> 00:23:55.040 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: For roll of a die, yeah, I mean-- 00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:58.542 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But it's still random, there's still a probability 00:23:58.542 --> 00:23:59.950 align:middle line:90% distribution over what it is? 00:23:59.950 --> 00:24:01.124 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Not really. 00:24:01.124 --> 00:24:03.404 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, if you're rolling the die-- 00:24:03.404 --> 00:24:03.866 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I'm not going through that. 00:24:03.866 --> 00:24:05.574 align:middle line:84% It's just theoretically possible that you 00:24:05.574 --> 00:24:06.991 align:middle line:84% could compute what the die roll is 00:24:06.991 --> 00:24:08.500 align:middle line:90% going to be before I roll it. 00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:11.200 align:middle line:90% 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.368 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: There's one very clear example 00:24:13.368 --> 00:24:14.660 align:middle line:90% when you can compute it, right? 00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:17.540 align:middle line:84% Because you know those dice are loaded. 00:24:17.540 --> 00:24:21.753 align:middle line:84% Yeah, you know those dice are loaded, 00:24:21.753 --> 00:24:23.170 align:middle line:84% and in that particular case you've 00:24:23.170 --> 00:24:25.942 align:middle line:84% got private information just in the same way 00:24:25.942 --> 00:24:28.400 align:middle line:84% that if you're using, say a pseudo random number generator. 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:30.608 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But if you flip a Clue card more than once, 00:24:30.608 --> 00:24:31.530 align:middle line:90% it doesn't change. 00:24:31.530 --> 00:24:34.390 align:middle line:84% And if you get information about what that is, 00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:38.210 align:middle line:90% it stays the same, right? 00:24:38.210 --> 00:24:41.126 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you think that the Clue example is an example 00:24:41.126 --> 00:24:42.098 align:middle line:90% of private information? 00:24:42.098 --> 00:24:42.843 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: No. 00:24:42.843 --> 00:24:45.385 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is it an example of private and random information, 00:24:45.385 --> 00:24:47.230 align:middle line:90% it's not really like-- 00:24:47.230 --> 00:24:49.650 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: No, it's important to remember, 00:24:49.650 --> 00:24:52.750 align:middle line:84% to know that isn't information because no player actually 00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:56.540 align:middle line:84% gets to see what that card is when it 00:24:56.540 --> 00:24:58.162 align:middle line:90% is inserted into the envelope. 00:24:58.162 --> 00:24:59.620 align:middle line:84% For those people who haven't played 00:24:59.620 --> 00:25:01.787 align:middle line:84% Clue, what happens is that you've got a whole stack, 00:25:01.787 --> 00:25:08.650 align:middle line:84% you have three different stacks of people, places, and things 00:25:08.650 --> 00:25:13.390 align:middle line:84% that you can kill people with from the 1950s or something. 00:25:13.390 --> 00:25:15.400 align:middle line:90% And then you get one-- 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.400 align:middle line:84% three-deck card shuffle, you pick up one card for each, 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.520 align:middle line:84% and those three cards go into an envelope 00:25:21.520 --> 00:25:24.245 align:middle line:84% that nobody gets to see until pretty late in the game. 00:25:24.245 --> 00:25:26.890 align:middle line:90% 00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:28.900 align:middle line:84% And that those cards will never change. 00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:31.740 align:middle line:84% That's a very clear example of hidden information 00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:34.240 align:middle line:84% because at the point when they were generated, you're right, 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:35.410 align:middle line:90% that was random. 00:25:35.410 --> 00:25:38.073 align:middle line:84% But then it gets turned to this piece of hidden information 00:25:38.073 --> 00:25:40.240 align:middle line:84% that everyone is trying to find out during the game. 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:41.823 align:middle line:84% The whole point of Clue is that you're 00:25:41.823 --> 00:25:46.180 align:middle line:90% trying to figure this out. 00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:47.620 align:middle line:84% And there are rules governing who 00:25:47.620 --> 00:25:50.110 align:middle line:84% gets to see that hidden information, 00:25:50.110 --> 00:25:53.590 align:middle line:84% when, there's rules governing how you generate 00:25:53.590 --> 00:25:56.650 align:middle line:84% that information, and there are mechanics for you 00:25:56.650 --> 00:25:58.622 align:middle line:84% to be able to figure out what's inside there. 00:25:58.622 --> 00:26:01.240 align:middle line:90% 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:02.360 align:middle line:90% Let me see. 00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:05.350 align:middle line:84% There was another point that I was going to make about that. 00:26:05.350 --> 00:26:08.230 align:middle line:84% And it's true that if you, say we implemented 00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:09.970 align:middle line:84% that on a computer or any game that 00:26:09.970 --> 00:26:12.340 align:middle line:84% has some sort of randomizing thing in a computer, 00:26:12.340 --> 00:26:15.070 align:middle line:84% and you could figure out how the randomizing was 00:26:15.070 --> 00:26:17.460 align:middle line:84% being done because very few things in a computer 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:20.640 align:middle line:90% are truly random. 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.920 align:middle line:84% Then you will be able to, say figure out OK, 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:25.840 align:middle line:84% the next die roll should be a certain number. 00:26:25.840 --> 00:26:28.690 align:middle line:84% The other day I talked about how when you play certain strategy 00:26:28.690 --> 00:26:31.120 align:middle line:84% games, and you had like a 50% chance of succeeding 00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:33.760 align:middle line:84% at something, then technically if you 00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:35.020 align:middle line:90% save the game right behind-- 00:26:35.020 --> 00:26:37.510 align:middle line:84% right before you did it, and you kept doing it, 00:26:37.510 --> 00:26:40.330 align:middle line:84% then you will eventually have 100% chance of succeeding, 00:26:40.330 --> 00:26:44.050 align:middle line:84% because you just keep playing it until you win. 00:26:44.050 --> 00:26:46.800 align:middle line:84% Unless, of course, it's a pseudo random number generator 00:26:46.800 --> 00:26:49.510 align:middle line:84% that is saving the seed, and so the outcome always turns out 00:26:49.510 --> 00:26:51.735 align:middle line:90% to be the same each time. 00:26:51.735 --> 00:26:53.110 align:middle line:84% And if you have that information, 00:26:53.110 --> 00:26:54.610 align:middle line:84% that's actually private information. 00:26:54.610 --> 00:26:56.740 align:middle line:84% The question is, is that actually 00:26:56.740 --> 00:26:58.360 align:middle line:84% going to be something that you're 00:26:58.360 --> 00:27:01.430 align:middle line:84% designing into your game, or something that you just 00:27:01.430 --> 00:27:03.540 align:middle line:90% choose to live with? 00:27:03.540 --> 00:27:06.730 align:middle line:84% And as a designer, you get to make that decision. 00:27:06.730 --> 00:27:08.970 align:middle line:84% You get to decide things like, I'm 00:27:08.970 --> 00:27:11.700 align:middle line:84% going to save the random number seed when I save the same game. 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:15.310 align:middle line:84% You can decide to reveal what you're randomizing scheme 00:27:15.310 --> 00:27:19.608 align:middle line:84% is to the rest of the world, and to a hardcore computer hacker, 00:27:19.608 --> 00:27:22.150 align:middle line:84% it wouldn't it be that hard to figure out what kind of method 00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:22.733 align:middle line:90% they're using. 00:27:22.733 --> 00:27:26.360 align:middle line:90% 00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:27.940 align:middle line:84% You can choose to say no, this is 00:27:27.940 --> 00:27:30.120 align:middle line:90% a very closely guarded secret. 00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:38.800 align:middle line:84% I'm actually generating it by analyzing this Geiger counter, 00:27:38.800 --> 00:27:41.580 align:middle line:84% and seeing when certain ticks come, 00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:48.410 align:middle line:84% I mean that's as close to random as we can get. 00:27:48.410 --> 00:27:50.635 align:middle line:84% You can choose to do all of that as a designer, 00:27:50.635 --> 00:27:53.410 align:middle line:84% and the question is where do you want to set 00:27:53.410 --> 00:27:56.020 align:middle line:90% those limits for your own game? 00:27:56.020 --> 00:27:59.230 align:middle line:84% Things like, for instance, yeah theoretically, a pair of dice 00:27:59.230 --> 00:28:01.740 align:middle line:84% can generate any number between two and 12. 00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:04.240 align:middle line:84% But anyone who has played games for a certain amount of time 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.680 align:middle line:84% realizes that 2 and 12 are really rare compared to 7. 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.002 align:middle line:84% And there are games that take advantage of that, 00:28:11.002 --> 00:28:13.210 align:middle line:84% and there are games who don't take advantage of that. 00:28:13.210 --> 00:28:16.230 align:middle line:84% There are some games that basically treat a roll of 12 00:28:16.230 --> 00:28:19.330 align:middle line:84% and a roll of two exactly the same as a roll of 7, especially 00:28:19.330 --> 00:28:22.500 align:middle line:90% like the race games. 00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:27.390 align:middle line:84% You move that number of steps but they're not like balanced 00:28:27.390 --> 00:28:31.930 align:middle line:84% so that 2 and 12 are expected to come up 00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:33.790 align:middle line:90% less often or more often. 00:28:33.790 --> 00:28:35.680 align:middle line:84% That's why you-- I've seen versions of things 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:38.603 align:middle line:84% like Candy Land, where they replace the spinner with dice. 00:28:38.603 --> 00:28:41.140 align:middle line:84% And it's like, wait a minute, that completely throws off 00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:42.600 align:middle line:90% the likelihood that-- 00:28:42.600 --> 00:28:44.920 align:middle line:84% the way how the pace of the game works. 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.653 align:middle line:84% But for Candy Land it doesn't matter. 00:28:48.653 --> 00:28:52.870 align:middle line:84% So you're kind of equally likely to win. 00:28:52.870 --> 00:28:54.460 align:middle line:84% So for that game, that's something 00:28:54.460 --> 00:28:57.310 align:middle line:84% where you can do those types of substitutions. 00:28:57.310 --> 00:28:59.890 align:middle line:84% I think it is actually very, very useful 00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:01.510 align:middle line:84% to be able to talk about this when 00:29:01.510 --> 00:29:04.690 align:middle line:84% it comes to the design of your own rules. 00:29:04.690 --> 00:29:07.610 align:middle line:84% It's useful to be able to talk about it with other designers. 00:29:07.610 --> 00:29:09.640 align:middle line:84% Say he has this piece of information 00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:13.358 align:middle line:84% that we're storing early on, maybe because we got cards that 00:29:13.358 --> 00:29:14.900 align:middle line:84% are flipped down, maybe you got cards 00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:16.108 align:middle line:90% we're putting it an envelope. 00:29:16.108 --> 00:29:19.000 align:middle line:84% Maybe just a quantity of things in a bag or something, and then 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.590 align:middle line:84% you have to reach into it and pull things out, like the bag 00:29:21.590 --> 00:29:23.860 align:middle line:90% in Scrabble. 00:29:23.860 --> 00:29:30.080 align:middle line:84% Things that sort of randomize in a bag, 00:29:30.080 --> 00:29:33.280 align:middle line:84% the actual which one you're going to draw next from it 00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:36.190 align:middle line:84% is somewhat random, based on some sort of probability. 00:29:36.190 --> 00:29:39.150 align:middle line:84% But the possibility of that could be public information. 00:29:39.150 --> 00:29:40.750 align:middle line:90% It could be hidden information. 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:44.590 align:middle line:84% You might not know what the distribution of stuff 00:29:44.590 --> 00:29:45.908 align:middle line:90% inside that bag to begin with. 00:29:45.908 --> 00:29:48.580 align:middle line:90% 00:29:48.580 --> 00:29:51.070 align:middle line:84% And that's why I want you to be able to use 00:29:51.070 --> 00:29:54.520 align:middle line:84% these words in describing how things are working 00:29:54.520 --> 00:29:57.450 align:middle line:84% in your own game, to your own teammates, 00:29:57.450 --> 00:29:59.463 align:middle line:90% and especially to us. 00:29:59.463 --> 00:30:00.880 align:middle line:84% Because we want to understand what 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:02.338 align:middle line:84% it is that you're trying to achieve 00:30:02.338 --> 00:30:04.340 align:middle line:90% with this bit of information. 00:30:04.340 --> 00:30:06.820 align:middle line:84% Hidden information typically is something 00:30:06.820 --> 00:30:09.400 align:middle line:84% that you're going to try to allow people to figure out 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:10.800 align:middle line:90% over time. 00:30:10.800 --> 00:30:13.090 align:middle line:84% And that's a lot of that's a lot of stake 00:30:13.090 --> 00:30:16.072 align:middle line:84% over what that hidden piece of information is. 00:30:16.072 --> 00:30:17.530 align:middle line:84% Whereas that's not a whole lot of-- 00:30:17.530 --> 00:30:23.530 align:middle line:84% and it's kind of like shared among everybody who's looking 00:30:23.530 --> 00:30:25.020 align:middle line:90% at a piece of information. 00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:29.770 align:middle line:84% Whereas something that's random is usually, 00:30:29.770 --> 00:30:31.840 align:middle line:84% kind of at that moment it's really important, 00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:34.390 align:middle line:84% and after that it's not so important anymore. 00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:35.890 align:middle line:84% It has some sort of consequence that 00:30:35.890 --> 00:30:41.020 align:middle line:84% might be recorded in the score, but it's not like from turn 00:30:41.020 --> 00:30:44.410 align:middle line:84% to turn that particular role or that particular spin 00:30:44.410 --> 00:30:47.650 align:middle line:90% was all that important. 00:30:47.650 --> 00:30:49.880 align:middle line:84% Private information and public information 00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.150 align:middle line:84% tend to be pretty easy to talk about, 00:30:52.150 --> 00:30:56.470 align:middle line:84% so they're just useful terms to get people 00:30:56.470 --> 00:30:59.150 align:middle line:90% to discuss with each other. 00:30:59.150 --> 00:31:02.115 align:middle line:84% And so I just want to introduce these terms, 00:31:02.115 --> 00:31:05.505 align:middle line:84% this is the taxonomy that was provided by Celia Pearce. 00:31:05.505 --> 00:31:06.880 align:middle line:84% It sort of expands on the perfect 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:09.670 align:middle line:84% and the imperfect information because imperfect information 00:31:09.670 --> 00:31:11.950 align:middle line:84% gets kind of fuzzy because it has 00:31:11.950 --> 00:31:14.830 align:middle line:90% all these different versions. 00:31:14.830 --> 00:31:19.750 align:middle line:84% And now that I everybody who's planning on showing up today 00:31:19.750 --> 00:31:22.600 align:middle line:84% has shown up, we should probably start 00:31:22.600 --> 00:31:25.150 align:middle line:90% setting up for play tests. 00:31:25.150 --> 00:31:26.680 align:middle line:90% So is everyone sitting in teams? 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.340 align:middle line:84% I think everyone's more or less sitting where you were, right ? 00:31:30.340 --> 00:31:33.320 align:middle line:84% Any questions so far on other questions 00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:35.670 align:middle line:84% based on what are we talking about? 00:31:35.670 --> 00:31:38.680 align:middle line:84% Like to clarify why I think these 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:40.024 align:middle line:90% should be used differently. 00:31:40.024 --> 00:31:42.632 align:middle line:90% 00:31:42.632 --> 00:31:45.090 align:middle line:84% How many of you have changed your game mechanic by the way? 00:31:45.090 --> 00:31:49.070 align:middle line:90% 00:31:49.070 --> 00:31:52.745 align:middle line:84% What would you describe it as now? 00:31:52.745 --> 00:31:54.310 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah, maybe deception. 00:31:54.310 --> 00:31:56.280 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Deception. 00:31:56.280 --> 00:31:58.650 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: It's not built. 00:31:58.650 --> 00:32:00.790 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: OK, something like laughing, 00:32:00.790 --> 00:32:05.857 align:middle line:84% something like faking out your opponent. 00:32:05.857 --> 00:32:08.440 align:middle line:84% Everyone else still pretty much sticking with what you've got? 00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:10.501 align:middle line:90% Is that still building? 00:32:10.501 --> 00:32:15.142 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You're building like a board. 00:32:15.142 --> 00:32:16.600 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: You're building a board. 00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:18.267 align:middle line:84% I haven't see that part of the game yet. 00:32:18.267 --> 00:32:21.310 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, not building-- you're building on the board. 00:32:21.310 --> 00:32:24.790 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I think I need to just play our game to get it. 00:32:24.790 --> 00:32:26.440 align:middle line:84% Because it looks like [INAUDIBLE].. 00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:31.840 align:middle line:84% All right, so again, can I see which group 00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:34.110 align:middle line:90% has two-player games? 00:32:34.110 --> 00:32:36.060 align:middle line:90% 1, 2, 3, OK. 00:32:36.060 --> 00:32:37.800 align:middle line:90% And the rest? 00:32:37.800 --> 00:32:40.620 align:middle line:90% Who has four-player games? 00:32:40.620 --> 00:32:42.960 align:middle line:84% And you all have the be three-player games? 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.740 align:middle line:90% OK, all right. 00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:46.460 align:middle line:90% 00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:49.580 align:middle line:84% So, wait, hold on, both of you are two-player games 00:32:49.580 --> 00:32:52.520 align:middle line:84% and then you played each other's games last time? 00:32:52.520 --> 00:32:54.140 align:middle line:90% Oh, you didn't? 00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:56.250 align:middle line:90% OK, all right then. 00:32:56.250 --> 00:32:58.040 align:middle line:84% Then that's easy, the two of you should 00:32:58.040 --> 00:32:59.880 align:middle line:90% be playing each other's games. 00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:05.510 align:middle line:84% Again, there should be observers who have recording material 00:33:05.510 --> 00:33:06.300 align:middle line:90% to be able to-- 00:33:06.300 --> 00:33:10.252 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Is there a team of two playing the game, though? 00:33:10.252 --> 00:33:11.960 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: No, don't play simultaneously. 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:12.650 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK, got it. 00:33:12.650 --> 00:33:14.317 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: So that team comes over here, 00:33:14.317 --> 00:33:17.060 align:middle line:84% plays this game, then everybody here goes over there, 00:33:17.060 --> 00:33:18.920 align:middle line:90% plays that game. 00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:21.670 align:middle line:84% There's probably enough time for that. 00:33:21.670 --> 00:33:23.300 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Would it make sense if it all 00:33:23.300 --> 00:33:26.288 align:middle line:84% had two-player games on one set of tables? 00:33:26.288 --> 00:33:28.580 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I think it would help if just the two of you 00:33:28.580 --> 00:33:30.820 align:middle line:84% just came up here and brought your game with you. 00:33:30.820 --> 00:33:33.260 align:middle line:84% And then you can just like hang out here because-- 00:33:33.260 --> 00:33:36.000 align:middle line:84% we're only going to end up playing one of, 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.210 align:middle line:84% either you're team's game or their team at one time. 00:33:38.210 --> 00:33:40.400 align:middle line:84% They're not going to play both games simultaneously. 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:42.770 align:middle line:90% The rest of you, let's see. 00:33:42.770 --> 00:33:45.795 align:middle line:84% How many of you have your game ready to go? 00:33:45.795 --> 00:33:47.170 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: What was your question? 00:33:47.170 --> 00:33:51.750 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: How many of you have had a game ready to go? 00:33:51.750 --> 00:33:52.790 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:33:52.790 --> 00:33:55.790 align:middle line:84% I've played your game recently, you haven't. 00:33:55.790 --> 00:33:57.248 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I've not played this one. 00:33:57.248 --> 00:33:58.873 align:middle line:84% I've played an old version of that one, 00:33:58.873 --> 00:34:01.090 align:middle line:84% and I've played the one in the corner yesterday. 00:34:01.090 --> 00:34:03.170 align:middle line:90% I haven't played those two. 00:34:03.170 --> 00:34:04.610 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: OK. 00:34:04.610 --> 00:34:07.870 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] Have these two groups 00:34:07.870 --> 00:34:09.489 align:middle line:90% played each other's games yet? 00:34:09.489 --> 00:34:10.340 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Probably. 00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:11.173 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: You have? 00:34:11.173 --> 00:34:13.110 align:middle line:84% Then what I'm going to suggest is 00:34:13.110 --> 00:34:19.139 align:middle line:84% that three people from this group come over here 00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:21.360 align:middle line:84% and play this game first, all right? 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.404 align:middle line:84% And then Rick and I will join these two 00:34:27.404 --> 00:34:32.310 align:middle line:84% to play the middle game, and then the four of you 00:34:32.310 --> 00:34:34.150 align:middle line:90% will play that game. 00:34:34.150 --> 00:34:36.150 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I've played that game already, though. 00:34:36.150 --> 00:34:37.370 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Oh, you have? 00:34:37.370 --> 00:34:38.429 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:34:38.429 --> 00:34:39.710 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: I think we can-- 00:34:39.710 --> 00:34:41.460 align:middle line:84% all four of you have played the same game? 00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:42.030 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:34:42.030 --> 00:34:43.613 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Has it changed dramatically 00:34:43.613 --> 00:34:47.190 align:middle line:84% since the last time you played the game? 00:34:47.190 --> 00:34:48.106 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Not really. 00:34:48.106 --> 00:34:50.742 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: How many tests of each game are we trying to get to? 00:34:50.742 --> 00:34:52.284 align:middle line:84% At least 2 play threws for each game? 00:34:52.284 --> 00:34:53.866 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Just one, actually. 00:34:53.866 --> 00:34:56.732 align:middle line:84% I'm pretty sure that after one they'll be things to change. 00:34:56.732 --> 00:34:58.690 align:middle line:84% And if we have time, maybe we can get one more. 00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:00.930 align:middle line:90% 00:35:00.930 --> 00:35:03.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Let me do a quick scan to see what other staff are 00:35:03.430 --> 00:35:05.583 align:middle line:90% available, and we can get-- 00:35:05.583 --> 00:35:07.750 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Let's see if we can get a few more people 00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:11.560 align:middle line:90% to play that game over there. 00:35:11.560 --> 00:35:13.670 align:middle line:84% All right, so let me just change this up then. 00:35:13.670 --> 00:35:17.400 align:middle line:84% Three of you come over here and bring this game right now. 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:17.900 align:middle line:90% OK? 00:35:17.900 --> 00:35:21.920 align:middle line:90% 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.690 align:middle line:84% For the presentation at the end of assignment one, 00:35:26.690 --> 00:35:29.190 align:middle line:84% I do want you to talk a little bit about the game 00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:31.345 align:middle line:84% but don't explain the rules of your game 00:35:31.345 --> 00:35:32.910 align:middle line:90% before doing your presentation. 00:35:32.910 --> 00:35:34.827 align:middle line:84% That will use up all the time that you've got. 00:35:34.827 --> 00:35:38.240 align:middle line:84% Talk about a process, talk about what you started with, 00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:41.990 align:middle line:84% what you tried, what didn't work and what kind of changes 00:35:41.990 --> 00:35:43.180 align:middle line:90% that make you make. 00:35:43.180 --> 00:35:46.360 align:middle line:84% You know, what worked and how you rolled with it. 00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:48.110 align:middle line:84% I want to hear more about the story of how 00:35:48.110 --> 00:35:51.170 align:middle line:84% you got to where you are, because right after you do 00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:54.062 align:middle line:84% the presentation, we'll actually sit down and play 00:35:54.062 --> 00:35:55.520 align:middle line:84% each other's games just like today, 00:35:55.520 --> 00:35:57.170 align:middle line:84% only it's not a playtest so you don't 00:35:57.170 --> 00:35:58.860 align:middle line:84% have to do like recording or anything, 00:35:58.860 --> 00:35:59.973 align:middle line:90% everyone just plays games. 00:35:59.973 --> 00:36:01.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: How is the presentation? 00:36:01.390 --> 00:36:02.960 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I think only five minutes. 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.250 align:middle line:90% It should be in the syllabus. 00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:05.950 align:middle line:90% I thought I wrote five minutes. 00:36:05.950 --> 00:36:07.693 align:middle line:90% It's pretty fast. 00:36:07.693 --> 00:36:09.110 align:middle line:84% It doesn't have to be one of those 00:36:09.110 --> 00:36:11.380 align:middle line:84% like every single person on the team 00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:13.040 align:middle line:84% has to say something kind of thing, 00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:17.420 align:middle line:84% but if you want to organize it that way you totally can. 00:36:17.420 --> 00:36:21.270 align:middle line:84% I just want to hear about what is the story of the game. 00:36:21.270 --> 00:36:22.840 align:middle line:84% The other thing is that I actually 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:27.150 align:middle line:84% did look up the situation with Texas hold 'em, 00:36:27.150 --> 00:36:28.860 align:middle line:84% but I am going to reverse my position. 00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:31.140 align:middle line:84% That is, I think, not hidden information. 00:36:31.140 --> 00:36:33.270 align:middle line:90% And two things swayed me. 00:36:33.270 --> 00:36:36.230 align:middle line:84% One is I started discussing it with a bunch of other game 00:36:36.230 --> 00:36:39.497 align:middle line:84% designers online, and I discovered 00:36:39.497 --> 00:36:41.330 align:middle line:84% that there are a couple of variants of Texas 00:36:41.330 --> 00:36:43.970 align:middle line:84% hold 'em, where you never deal what 00:36:43.970 --> 00:36:45.810 align:middle line:90% they call the flop face down. 00:36:45.810 --> 00:36:49.407 align:middle line:84% You just play it face up one at a time. 00:36:49.407 --> 00:36:50.990 align:middle line:84% At this point, it's just a random view 00:36:50.990 --> 00:36:54.410 align:middle line:84% from the top of the deck and that makes it-- 00:36:54.410 --> 00:36:58.190 align:middle line:84% it started to be the same either way, 00:36:58.190 --> 00:37:00.740 align:middle line:84% only just because they're listed, right, that it's 00:37:00.740 --> 00:37:01.740 align:middle line:90% basically a random deal. 00:37:01.740 --> 00:37:03.547 align:middle line:90% So yes, that is in fact random. 00:37:03.547 --> 00:37:05.880 align:middle line:84% That's a very bad example to use for hidden information, 00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.000 align:middle line:84% whereas the Clue thing is because the whole point 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.410 align:middle line:84% of that game is that it gives you 00:37:09.410 --> 00:37:12.092 align:middle line:84% all these tools to be able to reveal this information. 00:37:12.092 --> 00:37:14.300 align:middle line:84% At that point in time where you put your cards inside 00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:16.670 align:middle line:84% it is random but then once it's inside 00:37:16.670 --> 00:37:20.730 align:middle line:84% and a person starts that's hidden information. 00:37:20.730 --> 00:37:22.570 align:middle line:90% Thank you very much. 00:37:22.570 --> 00:37:25.748 align:middle line:90%