WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.090 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.090 --> 00:00:02.490 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided under a Creative 00:00:02.490 --> 00:00:04.030 align:middle line:90% Commons license. 00:00:04.030 --> 00:00:06.330 align:middle line:84% Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.690 align:middle line:84% continue to offer high quality educational resources for free. 00:00:10.690 --> 00:00:13.320 align:middle line:84% To make a donation or view additional materials 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:17.280 align:middle line:84% from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:20.530 align:middle line:90% at ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:20.530 --> 00:00:22.310 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: I'd like to introduce Jesper. 00:00:22.310 --> 00:00:25.320 align:middle line:84% Jesper Juul is a old friend of the lab 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:30.850 align:middle line:84% and currently at the Royal Danish Academy-- 00:00:30.850 --> 00:00:32.225 align:middle line:90% So it is very long. 00:00:32.225 --> 00:00:34.058 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: It's actually longer than this. 00:00:34.058 --> 00:00:36.600 align:middle line:84% Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts Schools 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:40.180 align:middle line:84% of Architecture Conservation and Design, School of Design. 00:00:40.180 --> 00:00:42.960 align:middle line:90% PROFESSOR: Right. 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:46.970 align:middle line:90% And you've also taught at NYU. 00:00:46.970 --> 00:00:49.200 align:middle line:84% You're a visiting professor here. 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:55.369 align:middle line:84% And you've been a games scholar for a decade now? 00:00:55.369 --> 00:00:57.035 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Yeah, a bit more than that. 00:00:57.035 --> 00:00:58.743 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: Maybe it's more than a decade. 00:00:58.743 --> 00:01:01.950 align:middle line:90% 00:01:01.950 --> 00:01:04.170 align:middle line:84% If you take a bunch of the classes here, 00:01:04.170 --> 00:01:08.220 align:middle line:84% we sometimes have readings from Jesper-- articles 00:01:08.220 --> 00:01:10.130 align:middle line:90% that he's written. 00:01:10.130 --> 00:01:16.650 align:middle line:84% But this is another example of the talks 00:01:16.650 --> 00:01:19.770 align:middle line:84% that we've been having on this is what people do once they 00:01:19.770 --> 00:01:21.210 align:middle line:90% understand game design, right? 00:01:21.210 --> 00:01:23.240 align:middle line:90% Some people study games. 00:01:23.240 --> 00:01:27.420 align:middle line:84% Some people do research and write books about it. 00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:29.670 align:middle line:84% And ask interesting questions that 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:32.730 align:middle line:84% try to find out more about what makes games fascinating. 00:01:32.730 --> 00:01:36.735 align:middle line:84% Or what makes the environment in which we create games 00:01:36.735 --> 00:01:40.120 align:middle line:90% or we play games interesting. 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:42.924 align:middle line:84% So with that, I'd like hand it over to Jesper. 00:01:42.924 --> 00:01:43.590 align:middle line:90% JESPER JUUL: Hi. 00:01:43.590 --> 00:01:48.420 align:middle line:84% PROFESSOR: And this is game design 608. 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:54.300 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Hello, game design 608. 00:01:54.300 --> 00:01:58.794 align:middle line:84% So are you doing digital games, or analog games, or? 00:01:58.794 --> 00:02:00.520 align:middle line:90% We're doing analog. 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:02.220 align:middle line:90% JESPER JUUL: Analog, all right. 00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:05.620 align:middle line:84% So I think I'll mostly be talking about digital games 00:02:05.620 --> 00:02:08.360 align:middle line:84% right now, but I think it probably 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:11.450 align:middle line:90% applies to some extent. 00:02:11.450 --> 00:02:14.490 align:middle line:90% Phil, introduced me so nicely. 00:02:14.490 --> 00:02:18.180 align:middle line:84% So this is really a part of a conference presentation 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:21.850 align:middle line:90% I did earlier in April. 00:02:21.850 --> 00:02:25.140 align:middle line:84% And so if you're interested in reading the full paper, 00:02:25.140 --> 00:02:27.600 align:middle line:90% it's on my website. 00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:30.410 align:middle line:84% And it's kind of URL or independent style. 00:02:30.410 --> 00:02:32.850 align:middle line:84% And if you just go to /text you'll see some of the other 00:02:32.850 --> 00:02:35.630 align:middle line:90% stuff I've written. 00:02:35.630 --> 00:02:39.600 align:middle line:84% And I've written a few books about video games. 00:02:39.600 --> 00:02:45.610 align:middle line:84% So I wrote one about video games and storytelling. 00:02:45.610 --> 00:02:47.970 align:middle line:90% And one about casual games. 00:02:47.970 --> 00:02:51.030 align:middle line:84% And my most recent one, called The Art of Failure 00:02:51.030 --> 00:02:54.400 align:middle line:84% is, in a way, about being a sore loser. 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.950 align:middle line:84% So it's an essay on the pain of playing video games. 00:02:57.950 --> 00:03:01.670 align:middle line:84% So I focus on the question of why 00:03:01.670 --> 00:03:04.660 align:middle line:84% we claim we enjoy video games even though if you look 00:03:04.660 --> 00:03:07.200 align:middle line:84% at people who claim that, they often look quite unhappy 00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:08.040 align:middle line:90% actually. 00:03:08.040 --> 00:03:10.610 align:middle line:90% So it's a discussion on that. 00:03:10.610 --> 00:03:14.692 align:middle line:84% But this one is a social study of different things 00:03:14.692 --> 00:03:18.650 align:middle line:84% across the culture of independent games. 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:24.330 align:middle line:84% And so, there seems to be a kind of consensus 00:03:24.330 --> 00:03:27.420 align:middle line:84% that independent games would become a important aspect 00:03:27.420 --> 00:03:29.850 align:middle line:90% of game culture. 00:03:29.850 --> 00:03:33.040 align:middle line:84% And you can see this in several ways-- 00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:35.866 align:middle line:84% with a very cheap kind of Google engram way 00:03:35.866 --> 00:03:39.070 align:middle line:84% of showing that something is popular. 00:03:39.070 --> 00:03:41.910 align:middle line:84% I don't know if anybody knows why it's never flat, 00:03:41.910 --> 00:03:42.420 align:middle line:90% this curve. 00:03:42.420 --> 00:03:43.740 align:middle line:90% Does somebody know? 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:46.590 align:middle line:84% So in economic game theory, there's 00:03:46.590 --> 00:03:48.650 align:middle line:84% actually a concept called independent game. 00:03:48.650 --> 00:03:52.260 align:middle line:84% So it means a game that's not attached to other games. 00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:54.560 align:middle line:84% So that's why it's never quite fled the curve. 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:57.750 align:middle line:84% But it shows you that, from 2000 on, 00:03:57.750 --> 00:04:00.234 align:middle line:84% people started talking about independent games. 00:04:00.234 --> 00:04:02.530 align:middle line:84% And you can also see that somebody at Microsoft, 00:04:02.530 --> 00:04:05.900 align:middle line:84% they could spend a good deal of energy 00:04:05.900 --> 00:04:08.094 align:middle line:84% to claim how independent game friendly 00:04:08.094 --> 00:04:10.435 align:middle line:90% they are with the new console. 00:04:10.435 --> 00:04:11.890 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:04:11.890 --> 00:04:15.082 align:middle line:84% And we can tell by-- probably a few different reasons why we 00:04:15.082 --> 00:04:16.290 align:middle line:90% talk about independent games. 00:04:16.290 --> 00:04:19.019 align:middle line:84% And one of them may be the budgets 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:21.541 align:middle line:84% have become too big and too late development. 00:04:21.541 --> 00:04:23.499 align:middle line:84% So there is this kind of opening for games that 00:04:23.499 --> 00:04:25.220 align:middle line:90% are made on a smaller budget. 00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:29.070 align:middle line:84% And also that it's become easier to distribute games. 00:04:29.070 --> 00:04:31.190 align:middle line:84% So it used to be, in order to distribute a game, 00:04:31.190 --> 00:04:33.820 align:middle line:84% you had to find a disc and a box. 00:04:33.820 --> 00:04:36.160 align:middle line:84% And that's no longer true, fortunately. 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:38.640 align:middle line:84% And this means it's become possible to make games 00:04:38.640 --> 00:04:40.582 align:middle line:90% in different styles. 00:04:40.582 --> 00:04:43.320 align:middle line:84% And they also found that there's this thing that-- 00:04:43.320 --> 00:04:46.730 align:middle line:90% which can sound kind of weird-- 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:48.835 align:middle line:84% the independent games, in a way, pre-supposed 00:04:48.835 --> 00:04:50.934 align:middle line:90% the idea of independent games. 00:04:50.934 --> 00:04:53.690 align:middle line:84% So let me explain what that means. 00:04:53.690 --> 00:04:57.850 align:middle line:84% If you're making a game on a small budget, 00:04:57.850 --> 00:05:01.060 align:middle line:84% one of the things you need to be able to be sure of 00:05:01.060 --> 00:05:03.600 align:middle line:84% is that people who see your game, 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:07.080 align:middle line:84% don't just think of it as a game with too small a budget-- 00:05:07.080 --> 00:05:08.840 align:middle line:84% that they actually understand that this 00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:11.850 align:middle line:84% is a game that has some positive qualities to it. 00:05:11.850 --> 00:05:13.400 align:middle line:84% Or that there's a particular reason 00:05:13.400 --> 00:05:14.545 align:middle line:90% why it has a small budget. 00:05:14.545 --> 00:05:16.790 align:middle line:84% Or the fact that a bigger budget wouldn't 00:05:16.790 --> 00:05:19.130 align:middle line:90% have made this game any better. 00:05:19.130 --> 00:05:22.550 align:middle line:84% And so I think that the idea of the independent game 00:05:22.550 --> 00:05:25.120 align:middle line:84% is really that idea that you can actually say 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:26.685 align:middle line:90% I'm making an independent game. 00:05:26.685 --> 00:05:29.100 align:middle line:84% And people will understand that this 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:31.400 align:middle line:84% is a game that has a particular set of qualities 00:05:31.400 --> 00:05:32.990 align:middle line:90% where it's a feature-- 00:05:32.990 --> 00:05:37.622 align:middle line:84% the fact that it's a game with a small budget. 00:05:37.622 --> 00:05:40.690 align:middle line:84% And so, it doesn't mean-- you can see the question, what 00:05:40.690 --> 00:05:42.910 align:middle line:84% makes people assume that something 00:05:42.910 --> 00:05:45.820 align:middle line:84% is an independent game when they see it? 00:05:45.820 --> 00:05:47.890 align:middle line:84% I don't think it's just that it says 00:05:47.890 --> 00:05:49.355 align:middle line:90% independent game somewhere. 00:05:49.355 --> 00:05:51.730 align:middle line:84% But I do think there's actually a particular style that's 00:05:51.730 --> 00:05:53.500 align:middle line:90% come into independent games. 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:55.601 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:05:55.601 --> 00:05:57.350 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Essentially you see that when 00:05:57.350 --> 00:06:00.220 align:middle line:84% people write about independent games, 00:06:00.220 --> 00:06:01.780 align:middle line:84% the first thing everybody will say 00:06:01.780 --> 00:06:04.270 align:middle line:84% is that you can't define anything. 00:06:04.270 --> 00:06:07.250 align:middle line:84% It's the first thing you have to say. 00:06:07.250 --> 00:06:10.480 align:middle line:84% So you always have people say that you can't define it 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.800 align:middle line:84% because this creates discord in the game community. 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.890 align:middle line:84% Or you want to talk about independent in different ways, 00:06:16.890 --> 00:06:19.477 align:middle line:84% economic, technological, or cultural status. 00:06:19.477 --> 00:06:21.310 align:middle line:84% And then the third people say, well, there's 00:06:21.310 --> 00:06:23.845 align:middle line:84% no point in trying to define independent games 00:06:23.845 --> 00:06:25.390 align:middle line:90% in the first place. 00:06:25.390 --> 00:06:29.230 align:middle line:84% So I think that's actually [INAUDIBLE] 00:06:29.230 --> 00:06:31.130 align:middle line:84% On the other hand, if you look at what 00:06:31.130 --> 00:06:34.280 align:middle line:84% people who make independent games say 00:06:34.280 --> 00:06:36.920 align:middle line:84% there's actually a lot of things in common. 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.940 align:middle line:84% So Dan Cook talked about that independent games largely 00:06:40.940 --> 00:06:44.410 align:middle line:84% favor someone who's authentic and deserving. 00:06:44.410 --> 00:06:47.060 align:middle line:84% Edmund McMillen liked to talk about honesty and speaking 00:06:47.060 --> 00:06:47.810 align:middle line:90% from your heart. 00:06:47.810 --> 00:06:52.270 align:middle line:84% He made Super Meat Boy, and Dan Cook made Triple Town. 00:06:52.270 --> 00:06:54.890 align:middle line:84% And [? Robert ?] [? Aumann ?] talks about your personal 00:06:54.890 --> 00:06:57.272 align:middle line:84% relationship with the work-- to independent games. 00:06:57.272 --> 00:06:59.480 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] [? Chavez ?] a whole discussion comparing 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.520 align:middle line:84% independent games to funk music-- 00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:07.730 align:middle line:84% small, kind of personal, anyone can do it kind of thing. 00:07:07.730 --> 00:07:09.530 align:middle line:84% And various [INAUDIBLE] has talked 00:07:09.530 --> 00:07:12.763 align:middle line:84% about the smaller budgets allowing games 00:07:12.763 --> 00:07:15.840 align:middle line:84% to be more personal, more relevant. 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:19.820 align:middle line:84% And so I think these are quite similar in some ways. 00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:23.250 align:middle line:84% So they talk about the honest and the traditional 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:25.030 align:middle line:84% and, what I call, minimal complexity. 00:07:25.030 --> 00:07:28.480 align:middle line:84% You can understand who made the game. 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.700 align:middle line:84% Like we talked about just before with Kickstarter-- 00:07:31.700 --> 00:07:35.265 align:middle line:84% if you buy Triple-A game it's not 00:07:35.265 --> 00:07:37.670 align:middle line:84% necessarily clear who actually made the game. 00:07:37.670 --> 00:07:40.670 align:middle line:84% And with independent games, there's much more of an idea 00:07:40.670 --> 00:07:44.120 align:middle line:84% that you will have a feeling of the author's-- of the 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.728 align:middle line:90% creator's-- personality. 00:07:47.728 --> 00:07:50.630 align:middle line:84% All right, so you see that these are 00:07:50.630 --> 00:07:56.200 align:middle line:84% what I call moral and aesthetic claims at the same time. 00:07:56.200 --> 00:08:02.070 align:middle line:84% So it's not just saying that these are better games. 00:08:02.070 --> 00:08:03.700 align:middle line:90% It's a bit more deep than that. 00:08:03.700 --> 00:08:07.740 align:middle line:84% It's also saying that this is a better way of making a game. 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:11.360 align:middle line:84% So not just that it will be a better product, 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:15.132 align:middle line:84% but that, even say, the quality of life of someone who makes 00:08:15.132 --> 00:08:16.340 align:middle line:90% an indie game will be better. 00:08:16.340 --> 00:08:19.600 align:middle line:84% But also that we will all be better off if more people make 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:20.470 align:middle line:90% independent games. 00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:23.410 align:middle line:84% We'll have more communication, and more ideas 00:08:23.410 --> 00:08:26.380 align:middle line:84% being spread, and more diversity, and so on. 00:08:26.380 --> 00:08:29.690 align:middle line:90% 00:08:29.690 --> 00:08:33.320 align:middle line:84% Now, the thing is this is not exactly new. 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:41.260 align:middle line:84% So this is called the trellis wallpaper 00:08:41.260 --> 00:08:45.970 align:middle line:84% by William Morris and Philip Webb from 1862. 00:08:45.970 --> 00:08:49.780 align:middle line:84% So one of the things that strikes you as indie 00:08:49.780 --> 00:08:52.830 align:middle line:84% is that it actually is quite similar to somethings that 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:54.870 align:middle line:90% have happened several times. 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:56.650 align:middle line:84% But I think particularly it happened 00:08:56.650 --> 00:09:01.702 align:middle line:84% with the arts and crafts movement of the 19th century. 00:09:01.702 --> 00:09:03.910 align:middle line:84% So you can see when we talk about independent games I 00:09:03.910 --> 00:09:07.720 align:middle line:84% do think it ties into several things such as the idea of DIY 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:12.250 align:middle line:84% or the maker movement or the idea of local food production, 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:15.130 align:middle line:84% like the locavore movement-- this idea that if you go 00:09:15.130 --> 00:09:20.057 align:middle line:84% to a restaurant you should know where the chicken you 00:09:20.057 --> 00:09:22.200 align:middle line:90% ate actually came from. 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:24.523 align:middle line:84% Only yesterday I was at this restaurant called Emu-- 00:09:24.523 --> 00:09:27.790 align:middle line:84% I didn't know [INAUDIBLE] and they did list, 00:09:27.790 --> 00:09:31.240 align:middle line:84% on the left side of the menu, all of the farms 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:32.615 align:middle line:84% where they get their ingredients. 00:09:32.615 --> 00:09:35.550 align:middle line:84% And it has this kind of like, wow, isn't it amazing. 00:09:35.550 --> 00:09:39.580 align:middle line:84% And of course I've never heard of any of those farms. 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:41.500 align:middle line:90% I have no idea where they are. 00:09:41.500 --> 00:09:43.000 align:middle line:84% But it kind of still works for me 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.205 align:middle line:84% because you can understand that there's 00:09:46.205 --> 00:09:49.920 align:middle line:84% a kind of honesty or something authentic about it. 00:09:49.920 --> 00:09:53.460 align:middle line:84% But the arts and crafts movement, 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:57.130 align:middle line:84% specifically discussed as being this late-19th century 00:09:57.130 --> 00:10:02.030 align:middle line:84% movement, where people reacted against the industrialization 00:10:02.030 --> 00:10:03.115 align:middle line:90% and machine production. 00:10:03.115 --> 00:10:05.950 align:middle line:84% And they felt that this included a loss 00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:07.730 align:middle line:90% of quality or personality. 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:10.670 align:middle line:84% So that you didn't even know who made the product. 00:10:10.670 --> 00:10:13.170 align:middle line:84% And the product itself would be, kind of, worse. 00:10:13.170 --> 00:10:18.530 align:middle line:84% And then the proponents of John Ruskin-- 00:10:18.530 --> 00:10:22.820 align:middle line:84% he talked about this idea that in medieval times 00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:26.120 align:middle line:84% there was a much better-- you had the [INAUDIBLE] 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.850 align:middle line:84% by the medieval guild, kind of a small group of people 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:31.580 align:middle line:84% making something like a Gothic building. 00:10:31.580 --> 00:10:36.460 align:middle line:84% And William Morris talks about this idea that handicrafts-- 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:39.230 align:middle line:84% the craftsperson making something 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:41.110 align:middle line:84% that's much better than what would 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.150 align:middle line:90% be made by machine production. 00:10:43.150 --> 00:10:45.040 align:middle line:90% And again, not just that. 00:10:45.040 --> 00:10:48.110 align:middle line:84% It would be better products, but that society 00:10:48.110 --> 00:10:50.420 align:middle line:84% at large, the world, would be a better place 00:10:50.420 --> 00:10:53.221 align:middle line:90% if we made things that way. 00:10:53.221 --> 00:10:56.680 align:middle line:84% And I do think you can say that-- 00:10:56.680 --> 00:10:59.360 align:middle line:84% I think it's very clear, with the idea of independent games. 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:00.800 align:middle line:84% It's kind of similar in the sense 00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:04.630 align:middle line:84% that when they talked about the revival of the craftsmanship 00:11:04.630 --> 00:11:06.870 align:middle line:84% and handicrafts, that we actually 00:11:06.870 --> 00:11:10.330 align:middle line:84% get a big machine, or big corporate productions-- 00:11:10.330 --> 00:11:12.824 align:middle line:90% a mass production. 00:11:12.824 --> 00:11:14.240 align:middle line:84% And I think, very similar, you can 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.660 align:middle line:84% say that independent games are a reaction against very large 00:11:17.660 --> 00:11:19.980 align:middle line:90% Triple-A production teams. 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:22.930 align:middle line:84% And so we have this idea that we should return to the smaller 00:11:22.930 --> 00:11:27.050 align:middle line:84% productions, and this will make everybody-- everything better 00:11:27.050 --> 00:11:28.568 align:middle line:90% on a number of levels. 00:11:28.568 --> 00:11:31.935 align:middle line:90% 00:11:31.935 --> 00:11:32.810 align:middle line:90% Does that make sense? 00:11:32.810 --> 00:11:35.830 align:middle line:90% 00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:37.790 align:middle line:84% I don't know, do you have strong feelings 00:11:37.790 --> 00:11:38.896 align:middle line:90% about independent games? 00:11:38.896 --> 00:11:43.320 align:middle line:90% 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:51.395 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: An independent game that you get [INAUDIBLE] 00:11:51.395 --> 00:11:56.345 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I do completely [INAUDIBLE] 00:11:56.345 --> 00:11:59.315 align:middle line:84% I think independent games now have more freedom 00:11:59.315 --> 00:12:03.760 align:middle line:84% to explore different mechanics and step away 00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:10.620 align:middle line:84% from what sells because they don't have the million dollar 00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:13.542 align:middle line:84% investments that they have to make sure it sells. 00:12:13.542 --> 00:12:15.246 align:middle line:84% And they don't have to be like, oh, it's 00:12:15.246 --> 00:12:19.386 align:middle line:84% been proven to do well with the market. 00:12:19.386 --> 00:12:21.334 align:middle line:84% And they have more freedom in that way. 00:12:21.334 --> 00:12:25.250 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:12:25.250 --> 00:12:26.487 align:middle line:90% JESPER JUUL: Yeah. 00:12:26.487 --> 00:12:28.570 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So I found that, just for me personally, 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:31.350 align:middle line:84% I don't really play games unless I'm 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:32.665 align:middle line:90% planning on playing them a lot. 00:12:32.665 --> 00:12:34.640 align:middle line:84% So I play competitively League of Legends 00:12:34.640 --> 00:12:36.751 align:middle line:90% or [INAUDIBLE] Brothers. 00:12:36.751 --> 00:12:39.000 align:middle line:84% And some of the problems I have with independent games 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:42.542 align:middle line:84% is that I don't feel like they're as developed. 00:12:42.542 --> 00:12:44.412 align:middle line:84% They're generally on the more creative side. 00:12:44.412 --> 00:12:46.870 align:middle line:84% Which is definitely something appreciable but not something 00:12:46.870 --> 00:12:47.460 align:middle line:90% that I enjoy. 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:52.440 align:middle line:84% I prefer getting very good at, physically, mechanics and such. 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:54.750 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Yeah, I guess, [INAUDIBLE] multi-player 00:12:54.750 --> 00:12:56.680 align:middle line:84% actually does not [INAUDIBLE] adaptable. 00:12:56.680 --> 00:12:59.386 align:middle line:84% There's this new collection out called [INAUDIBLE] 00:12:59.386 --> 00:13:01.140 align:middle line:90% Does anybody play that? 00:13:01.140 --> 00:13:03.708 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [? Bobby ?] [? Pinchot ?] [INAUDIBLE] 00:13:03.708 --> 00:13:04.583 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:13:04.583 --> 00:13:07.050 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:13:07.050 --> 00:13:10.247 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Yeah, that's true it's not, 00:13:10.247 --> 00:13:12.070 align:middle line:90% in a way, a competitive sport. 00:13:12.070 --> 00:13:14.014 align:middle line:90% It's not that at all. 00:13:14.014 --> 00:13:17.920 align:middle line:84% There's a game I like, [INAUDIBLE]. 00:13:17.920 --> 00:13:19.160 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:24.130 align:middle line:84% So that's kind of part of that complex. 00:13:24.130 --> 00:13:27.963 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So kind of on the opposite note, I think, 00:13:27.963 --> 00:13:30.149 align:middle line:84% not all, but a lot of independent games have 00:13:30.149 --> 00:13:34.526 align:middle line:84% the ability to just be quicker in single-player mode because-- 00:13:34.526 --> 00:13:36.308 align:middle line:84% While not all competitive aspects 00:13:36.308 --> 00:13:38.474 align:middle line:84% might be not be there, because massive multi-players 00:13:38.474 --> 00:13:41.136 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] They can be hard in single-player mode 00:13:41.136 --> 00:13:43.920 align:middle line:84% because they don't, for example, they 00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:46.010 align:middle line:84% don't need to remake the investments up. 00:13:46.010 --> 00:13:48.091 align:middle line:84% So a lot of people are frustrated when they lose. 00:13:48.091 --> 00:13:51.280 align:middle line:84% But they explore that realm more readily. 00:13:51.280 --> 00:13:57.790 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: I do think it's also a kind of nostalgia 00:13:57.790 --> 00:13:59.936 align:middle line:90% for an earlier time. 00:13:59.936 --> 00:14:01.353 align:middle line:84% And I do think that it's also part 00:14:01.353 --> 00:14:02.700 align:middle line:90% of the question of difficulties. 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:06.560 align:middle line:84% So it's a part of it in the sense that all of the edges 00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:09.490 align:middle line:84% are being removed, or the challenge 00:14:09.490 --> 00:14:12.190 align:middle line:84% is being removed from big game productions 00:14:12.190 --> 00:14:13.670 align:middle line:90% to please everybody. 00:14:13.670 --> 00:14:15.610 align:middle line:84% If you make an indie game, you can 00:14:15.610 --> 00:14:19.060 align:middle line:84% make something that's more harder, more focused, 00:14:19.060 --> 00:14:21.335 align:middle line:84% and have things like extreme difficulty. 00:14:21.335 --> 00:14:25.019 align:middle line:84% I think that's certainly an argument that people make. 00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:26.560 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Actually I have a question. 00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:28.752 align:middle line:84% Does anybody remember the phrase, Nintendo hard? 00:14:28.752 --> 00:14:29.849 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:14:29.849 --> 00:14:32.265 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: OK, because that's not what Nintendo is anymore, 00:14:32.265 --> 00:14:33.191 align:middle line:90% right? 00:14:33.191 --> 00:14:35.610 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Not really. 00:14:35.610 --> 00:14:38.460 align:middle line:84% But on the flip-side to that coin, 00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:41.404 align:middle line:84% aren't you sort of breaking the number one design 00:14:41.404 --> 00:14:43.510 align:middle line:90% rule, flexibility? 00:14:43.510 --> 00:14:46.140 align:middle line:84% When you make games incredibly difficult such 00:14:46.140 --> 00:14:52.216 align:middle line:84% that you're carving out a very small niche audience 00:14:52.216 --> 00:14:55.460 align:middle line:84% and saying, screw you to everybody else. 00:14:55.460 --> 00:14:57.910 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Yeah, and so these are subjects 00:14:57.910 --> 00:14:59.500 align:middle line:90% we'll get to in a bit-- 00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:01.950 align:middle line:84% that the arts and crafts movement also 00:15:01.950 --> 00:15:05.200 align:middle line:84% has this political theme that it would be for everybody-- 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.720 align:middle line:84% art by the people, for the people. 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.880 align:middle line:84% But then the criticism is that it ended up 00:15:09.880 --> 00:15:13.515 align:middle line:84% making conspicuous consumption for rich people. 00:15:13.515 --> 00:15:18.900 align:middle line:84% And you see the same thing with the locavore food movement. 00:15:18.900 --> 00:15:21.000 align:middle line:84% It's usually pretty expensive actually. 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:23.200 align:middle line:84% And so it's something that happens, 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:28.270 align:middle line:84% that in a way you cannot have these ideals of broadening 00:15:28.270 --> 00:15:30.380 align:middle line:90% things, this kind of production. 00:15:30.380 --> 00:15:34.847 align:middle line:84% But often it also [INAUDIBLE] flip-side 00:15:34.847 --> 00:15:36.430 align:middle line:84% of actually narrowing it and making it 00:15:36.430 --> 00:15:44.032 align:middle line:90% an elite object for [INAUDIBLE] 00:15:44.032 --> 00:15:45.490 align:middle line:84% One thing I thought was interesting 00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:49.280 align:middle line:90% was anything common in the way-- 00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:52.860 align:middle line:84% just talking about the visual style in independent games. 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:55.310 align:middle line:84% And he had three games that we often 00:15:55.310 --> 00:15:58.970 align:middle line:84% talk of as being independent, and [INAUDIBLE], which 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:02.060 align:middle line:84% has a pixelated or large pixel style 00:16:02.060 --> 00:16:05.020 align:middle line:84% and yet it moves this torn paper and crayons [INAUDIBLE]. 00:16:05.020 --> 00:16:09.040 align:middle line:84% Obviously, children's drawings with crayons. 00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:13.660 align:middle line:84% And so on one hand these are different graphical styles. 00:16:13.660 --> 00:16:15.280 align:middle line:84% But actually, you can see what they 00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:19.600 align:middle line:84% do have in common is what you can call a double layer. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.150 align:middle line:84% It's a representation of a representation. 00:16:22.150 --> 00:16:29.750 align:middle line:84% So the [INAUDIBLE] represents 1980s size pixels which 00:16:29.750 --> 00:16:31.350 align:middle line:90% then represent a game world. 00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:33.380 align:middle line:84% And yet it moves with the sense paper which 00:16:33.380 --> 00:16:35.030 align:middle line:90% then represents a game world. 00:16:35.030 --> 00:16:36.870 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] the sense experience which 00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:38.790 align:middle line:90% then represents a game world. 00:16:38.790 --> 00:16:44.200 align:middle line:84% And compare this to a modern Triple-A game. 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:46.150 align:middle line:90% You don't really have that. 00:16:46.150 --> 00:16:49.490 align:middle line:84% You have 3D graphics within the game world. 00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:51.210 align:middle line:90% So when can say that-- 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:53.380 align:middle line:90% I think that's pretty common. 00:16:53.380 --> 00:16:55.410 align:middle line:84% And I think without a representation 00:16:55.410 --> 00:16:57.490 align:middle line:90% of independent game-- 00:16:57.490 --> 00:16:59.510 align:middle line:84% I think when we usually see a game 00:16:59.510 --> 00:17:02.200 align:middle line:84% and recognize it as being an independent game, 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:05.380 align:middle line:84% it's often because you have this type of style-- 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:07.970 align:middle line:84% a representation of a representation. 00:17:07.970 --> 00:17:10.400 align:middle line:84% And often we'll have to use something 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.319 align:middle line:84% from contemporary technology, obviously. 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:15.099 align:middle line:84% But you said, to emulate something that's 00:17:15.099 --> 00:17:17.589 align:middle line:90% low-tech and cheap, right? 00:17:17.589 --> 00:17:20.920 align:middle line:90% So you can see that-- 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.460 align:middle line:84% you can compare this to some casual games 00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:29.830 align:middle line:84% like matching games which might signal jewels 00:17:29.830 --> 00:17:31.890 align:middle line:90% or diamonds or something. 00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:34.630 align:middle line:84% I think it's very clear that most independent games tend 00:17:34.630 --> 00:17:40.935 align:middle line:84% to emulate very cheap materials like torn paper and things 00:17:40.935 --> 00:17:43.880 align:middle line:90% like that. 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:45.490 align:middle line:84% I think also the reason why people 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:47.912 align:middle line:84% do this is that, in a way, what you've done 00:17:47.912 --> 00:17:52.090 align:middle line:84% is that you're signaling that we have made a deliberate 00:17:52.090 --> 00:17:56.230 align:middle line:90% choice to have this style. 00:17:56.230 --> 00:17:59.800 align:middle line:84% And we have deliberately chosen to make 00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:01.240 align:middle line:90% a game on a small budget. 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:02.770 align:middle line:84% So I think this is [INAUDIBLE] but I 00:18:02.770 --> 00:18:05.330 align:middle line:84% think that's what this kind of style signals. 00:18:05.330 --> 00:18:06.940 align:middle line:84% And it's also signalling this thing 00:18:06.940 --> 00:18:09.315 align:middle line:84% of [INAUDIBLE] authenticity, or knowing 00:18:09.315 --> 00:18:13.510 align:middle line:84% who made the game, or transparency in the production 00:18:13.510 --> 00:18:15.520 align:middle line:90% process. 00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:18.480 align:middle line:84% And so you can think of it like this, 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.500 align:middle line:84% that indie is using this [INAUDIBLE] 00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:22.660 align:middle line:90% to mean two different things. 00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:27.440 align:middle line:84% Indie, on paper, means a financially independent team. 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.190 align:middle line:84% Then I think that's also [INAUDIBLE] that people talked 00:18:30.190 --> 00:18:32.495 align:middle line:84% about indie from the game-development community-- 00:18:32.495 --> 00:18:35.060 align:middle line:84% talked about it in a way that it was morally and politically 00:18:35.060 --> 00:18:36.690 align:middle line:90% and aesthetically better. 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:40.630 align:middle line:84% Not just better games but also better for everybody 00:18:40.630 --> 00:18:43.240 align:middle line:84% when games are made this way because you can communicate 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.170 align:middle line:90% values and ideals, and so on. 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.220 align:middle line:84% And that indie has a particular kind of style. 00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:50.170 align:middle line:84% And I think that this kind of style 00:18:50.170 --> 00:18:52.040 align:middle line:84% of having these kind of representation 00:18:52.040 --> 00:18:56.909 align:middle line:84% of a representation, is one that people use to signal, 00:18:56.909 --> 00:18:58.700 align:middle line:84% now we are making a game with a small team. 00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:02.060 align:middle line:84% And it has this positive value of being authentic 00:19:02.060 --> 00:19:04.570 align:middle line:84% and something that we can figure out 00:19:04.570 --> 00:19:08.420 align:middle line:90% what's going on on who made it. 00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:12.050 align:middle line:84% I'll just show quickly how that kind of style appeared. 00:19:12.050 --> 00:19:14.960 align:middle line:90% So this is looking at the-- 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.500 align:middle line:84% do you know Independent Game Festival? 00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:19.269 align:middle line:90% Did you follow this? 00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:20.102 align:middle line:90% So that's all right. 00:19:20.102 --> 00:19:23.770 align:middle line:84% So anyway, this is a game dealers conference every year 00:19:23.770 --> 00:19:24.415 align:middle line:90% since 2000. 00:19:24.415 --> 00:19:26.410 align:middle line:84% There's been Independent Games Festival. 00:19:26.410 --> 00:19:31.060 align:middle line:84% And this is the longest running festival of independent games. 00:19:31.060 --> 00:19:34.850 align:middle line:84% And this is a jury-based competition. 00:19:34.850 --> 00:19:36.920 align:middle line:84% And so one of the things that's interesting 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.840 align:middle line:84% is looking at the winners of the grand prize in this Independent 00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:42.024 align:middle line:90% Games Festival. 00:19:42.024 --> 00:19:43.690 align:middle line:84% And one of the things that's kind of odd 00:19:43.690 --> 00:19:48.010 align:middle line:84% is that if you look at the first five years, none of the games 00:19:48.010 --> 00:19:52.290 align:middle line:84% actually signal independent very well in a contemporary way. 00:19:52.290 --> 00:19:54.730 align:middle line:84% So you can see that the three of them 00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:59.220 align:middle line:84% are somewhat regular games of armed conflict. 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:04.760 align:middle line:84% And then Wild Earth is a Pokemon snap-style game. 00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:10.513 align:middle line:84% The Bad Milk is this weird, never released associational 00:20:10.513 --> 00:20:11.189 align:middle line:90% CD-ROM. 00:20:11.189 --> 00:20:13.730 align:middle line:84% You click on things, and then other things appear, and so on. 00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:16.760 align:middle line:90% It never came out. 00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:22.210 align:middle line:84% But you can see that this feels like it's 00:20:22.210 --> 00:20:23.360 align:middle line:90% from a different time. 00:20:23.360 --> 00:20:26.960 align:middle line:84% If you see the picture of the two top games, 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.044 align:middle line:84% there's nothing that signals independent game 00:20:30.044 --> 00:20:33.320 align:middle line:90% in a modern sense. 00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:37.060 align:middle line:84% And I think part of this is because at this time 00:20:37.060 --> 00:20:40.340 align:middle line:84% online distribution just wasn't that big a deal. 00:20:40.340 --> 00:20:44.200 align:middle line:84% And so when people submitted to the festival what they did 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:46.464 align:middle line:84% was sometimes probably just they hoped 00:20:46.464 --> 00:20:48.255 align:middle line:84% that they would get noticed by a publisher. 00:20:48.255 --> 00:20:49.600 align:middle line:84% Who would then fund them, so they 00:20:49.600 --> 00:20:52.016 align:middle line:84% could make a very big version of the game which could them 00:20:52.016 --> 00:20:54.510 align:middle line:90% be shipped on a disc. 00:20:54.510 --> 00:20:57.870 align:middle line:84% And then we see that from 2005 on, 00:20:57.870 --> 00:21:00.649 align:middle line:84% the winners of this festival gradually became 00:21:00.649 --> 00:21:02.190 align:middle line:84% more of this style I'm talking about. 00:21:02.190 --> 00:21:06.000 align:middle line:84% You see the paradigmatic 2-D platform 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.260 align:middle line:90% with some kind of twist. 00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:10.460 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] Then with the winner we 00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:16.260 align:middle line:84% see a low-poly style that I think 00:21:16.260 --> 00:21:18.600 align:middle line:90% refers to a movie like Tron. 00:21:18.600 --> 00:21:23.360 align:middle line:84% And then we see various takes on water colors and the hand 00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:25.680 align:middle line:90% drawing graphics. 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.980 align:middle line:84% And you see, this actually coincides with the gradual rise 00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:30.780 align:middle line:90% of digital distribution. 00:21:30.780 --> 00:21:34.160 align:middle line:84% So first there's things like downloadable casual games, 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.670 align:middle line:84% that it becomes possible-- or those Flash games sites. 00:21:37.670 --> 00:21:39.270 align:middle line:84% It was more possible to distribute 00:21:39.270 --> 00:21:42.090 align:middle line:84% a game without having to put it in a box. 00:21:42.090 --> 00:21:45.600 align:middle line:90% 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:49.410 align:middle line:84% More recently then we see, we still have this pixel style. 00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:51.990 align:middle line:84% But then that gets merged with different things, 00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:55.285 align:middle line:84% like in a game like Monaco it has these various lighting 00:21:55.285 --> 00:21:55.785 align:middle line:90% effects. 00:21:55.785 --> 00:22:00.300 align:middle line:84% And then in Minecraft and [INAUDIBLE] it gets moved 00:22:00.300 --> 00:22:04.740 align:middle line:84% into a third dimension-- so not that-- 00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:08.830 align:middle line:84% and this is what I call counterfactual nostalgia-- 00:22:08.830 --> 00:22:12.270 align:middle line:84% in a way it's pixelated as if there 00:22:12.270 --> 00:22:14.580 align:middle line:84% was a time in the 1980s when people 00:22:14.580 --> 00:22:17.160 align:middle line:84% would make [INAUDIBLE] games with big pixels. 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.590 align:middle line:90% This never happened obviously. 00:22:18.590 --> 00:22:25.200 align:middle line:84% But we have this Steampunk anachronism about it. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.670 align:middle line:84% But still, you can see, it signals that this 00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:30.600 align:middle line:90% is a particular game-- 00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:33.770 align:middle line:84% or a particular style and then they used modern effects on it. 00:22:33.770 --> 00:22:39.410 align:middle line:84% In the last two years you have this flat mostly gray-scale 00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:40.516 align:middle line:90% pixels [INAUDIBLE] now. 00:22:40.516 --> 00:22:41.890 align:middle line:84% But then there are certain things 00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:44.560 align:middle line:84% that seem to be happening in the game play where half 00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:48.140 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] to me the life of a poor [INAUDIBLE] 00:22:48.140 --> 00:22:56.900 align:middle line:84% and pay the police simulates being an immigration officer. 00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:59.420 align:middle line:84% And so I think it goes to [INAUDIBLE] people 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:01.510 align:middle line:90% talk about the moral current. 00:23:01.510 --> 00:23:04.710 align:middle line:84% Like there is a lot of discussion about participation, 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:07.220 align:middle line:84% in various ways, in games and certainly 00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:10.310 align:middle line:84% a lot of emphasis on trying to make games 00:23:10.310 --> 00:23:13.640 align:middle line:84% with more serious themes so they'll cover a broader 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:17.174 align:middle line:90% range of themes. 00:23:17.174 --> 00:23:20.160 align:middle line:90% And so you see-- 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:22.650 align:middle line:84% so this shows you where this kind of style 00:23:22.650 --> 00:23:25.370 align:middle line:84% comes from-- the representation of the representation. 00:23:25.370 --> 00:23:29.070 align:middle line:84% You'll also see that basically every single winner since 2005 00:23:29.070 --> 00:23:32.591 align:middle line:84% of this festival has had this representation 00:23:32.591 --> 00:23:35.180 align:middle line:90% of representation. 00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:38.060 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:23:38.060 --> 00:23:39.020 align:middle line:90% What does it mean? 00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:42.800 align:middle line:84% Well, I think there are a few contradictions 00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:44.130 align:middle line:90% in independent games. 00:23:44.130 --> 00:23:47.580 align:middle line:84% So one of them has to do with what we call the DIY movement. 00:23:47.580 --> 00:23:50.490 align:middle line:84% It's that anybody can make a video game now 00:23:50.490 --> 00:23:52.160 align:middle line:90% with independent games-- 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:53.970 align:middle line:84% versus the idea of independent games 00:23:53.970 --> 00:23:58.940 align:middle line:84% as being a way for people to do games that are particularly 00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:00.740 align:middle line:90% expertly crafted. 00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:04.930 align:middle line:84% So some of those like Terry Cavanagh-- 00:24:04.930 --> 00:24:07.160 align:middle line:84% he talked about how it's easy for him 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.460 align:middle line:84% to make a game with this pixel style 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:12.336 align:middle line:84% because he doesn't consider himself 00:24:12.336 --> 00:24:15.290 align:middle line:90% that great a graphic artist. 00:24:15.290 --> 00:24:19.010 align:middle line:84% And so this pixel style is easy for him to do-- 00:24:19.010 --> 00:24:21.410 align:middle line:90% to make in a convincing way. 00:24:21.410 --> 00:24:24.080 align:middle line:84% On the other hand, if you want to make a game 00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:27.790 align:middle line:84% like that in a tool like Unity 3d. 00:24:27.790 --> 00:24:31.270 align:middle line:84% But people at Unity 3d really doesn't want you to do that. 00:24:31.270 --> 00:24:35.165 align:middle line:84% So the people at Unity 3d will do a serious filtering thing 00:24:35.165 --> 00:24:39.350 align:middle line:84% on your texture so if you just draw something with big pixels 00:24:39.350 --> 00:24:42.310 align:middle line:84% it will be very blurry, like the image on the left. 00:24:42.310 --> 00:24:44.960 align:middle line:84% So you have to do various things of changing 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.330 align:middle line:84% the settings in the rendering of Unity 3d 00:24:47.330 --> 00:24:49.580 align:middle line:90% to actually do pixel style. 00:24:49.580 --> 00:24:53.420 align:middle line:84% That's not really what the tool is meant for doing anyway. 00:24:53.420 --> 00:24:58.430 align:middle line:84% So this develops the possibility of demonstrating 00:24:58.430 --> 00:25:02.000 align:middle line:84% technical expertise, by working against the intentions 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.200 align:middle line:90% of the tool. 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.840 align:middle line:90% And that is a kind of feature. 00:25:05.840 --> 00:25:10.110 align:middle line:84% And so I think certainly that's the conflict 00:25:10.110 --> 00:25:12.706 align:middle line:84% within independent games-- between making 00:25:12.706 --> 00:25:17.210 align:middle line:84% independent games being these very small games in which you 00:25:17.210 --> 00:25:20.270 align:middle line:84% develop and have the opportunity to show off how great they are 00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:24.890 align:middle line:84% at various technical skills in a delicate and very small system. 00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:27.460 align:middle line:84% Versus independent games as being something 00:25:27.460 --> 00:25:31.130 align:middle line:90% where it's open to everybody. 00:25:31.130 --> 00:25:34.130 align:middle line:84% So you can take a designer like Anna Anthropy, 00:25:34.130 --> 00:25:38.080 align:middle line:84% who wrote a book called Rise of the Videogame Zinesters-- 00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:41.220 align:middle line:84% How Freaks, Normals, Amateurs, Artists, Dreamers, Drop-Outs, 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:43.630 align:middle line:84% Queers, Housewives and People Like You 00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:45.185 align:middle line:90% Are Taking Back an Art Form. 00:25:45.185 --> 00:25:50.260 align:middle line:84% So it's about making game development more democratic. 00:25:50.260 --> 00:25:53.740 align:middle line:84% And at the same time, when you see Anna Anthropy's games, 00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:56.136 align:middle line:84% she's actually a very, very good designer. 00:25:56.136 --> 00:25:58.539 align:middle line:84% So she makes these kind of games that 00:25:58.539 --> 00:26:00.330 align:middle line:84% are very-- she's good at combining elements 00:26:00.330 --> 00:26:05.730 align:middle line:84% from game history and to use them in a new way. 00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:08.465 align:middle line:84% The second element-- second contradiction I think 00:26:08.465 --> 00:26:10.900 align:middle line:90% is more on the use end. 00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:16.100 align:middle line:84% That, on one hand the idea of independent games 00:26:16.100 --> 00:26:20.430 align:middle line:84% tends to have this idea of democratization. 00:26:20.430 --> 00:26:23.670 align:middle line:84% It becomes games by the people for people. 00:26:23.670 --> 00:26:29.100 align:middle line:84% On the other hand, I think also that now that it's so common 00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:31.980 align:middle line:84% to play video games-- and more than 50% of the population 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:35.160 align:middle line:84% actually plays video games on a regular basis-- 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.800 align:middle line:84% then I think to some extent indie games can 00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:40.960 align:middle line:84% be this way of showing that you have a more sophisticated taste 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.860 align:middle line:90% than the great masses, right? 00:26:43.860 --> 00:26:49.160 align:middle line:84% That if everybody played Candy Crush, 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:52.320 align:middle line:84% then you can show that you are playing some obscure game 00:26:52.320 --> 00:26:56.130 align:middle line:84% from the Humble Bundle that regular people don't really 00:26:56.130 --> 00:26:56.760 align:middle line:90% under-- 00:26:56.760 --> 00:26:58.400 align:middle line:90% have learned to appreciate. 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:04.310 align:middle line:84% Then it becomes more this kind of fine wine tasting issue. 00:27:04.310 --> 00:27:12.120 align:middle line:84% So I think that certainly you have break-out indie games 00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:14.720 align:middle line:90% like Minecraft, obviously. 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.690 align:middle line:84% Which of course is a very, very broad hit 00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:20.430 align:middle line:90% across a lot of countries. 00:27:20.430 --> 00:27:22.370 align:middle line:84% It sold, what, 50 million copies? 00:27:22.370 --> 00:27:24.470 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, mind-blowingly large. 00:27:24.470 --> 00:27:26.968 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Mind-blowingly large. 00:27:26.968 --> 00:27:30.220 align:middle line:84% And then of course still the developer, [INAUDIBLE] 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:35.204 align:middle line:84% He still has this scruffy look to him. 00:27:35.204 --> 00:27:36.870 align:middle line:84% So [INAUDIBLE] they said he had stylists 00:27:36.870 --> 00:27:42.280 align:middle line:84% to make him scruffy so he keeps his indie credibility. 00:27:42.280 --> 00:27:45.480 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: He's [INAUDIBLE] 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:50.470 align:middle line:84% JESPER JUUL: Yeah, but you can see this a ongoing conflict 00:27:50.470 --> 00:27:53.350 align:middle line:84% within independent games-- whether this was something 00:27:53.350 --> 00:27:55.060 align:middle line:84% that's supposed to be very broad, 00:27:55.060 --> 00:27:57.927 align:middle line:84% or whether it is a connoisseur thing. 00:27:57.927 --> 00:28:02.600 align:middle line:90% 00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:07.440 align:middle line:84% And I should say, I do think that you can actually see this 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.485 align:middle line:84% as a result of the fact that so many people are 00:28:09.485 --> 00:28:10.318 align:middle line:90% playing video games. 00:28:10.318 --> 00:28:12.620 align:middle line:84% So it used to be that you could say, the fact 00:28:12.620 --> 00:28:15.120 align:middle line:84% that you play video games made you 00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:17.640 align:middle line:84% belong to a particular category of people. 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.590 align:middle line:84% But now that video game playing is 00:28:19.590 --> 00:28:21.575 align:middle line:84% so common you need to-- people need 00:28:21.575 --> 00:28:24.270 align:middle line:84% to select a certain subset of video games 00:28:24.270 --> 00:28:27.560 align:middle line:84% to have an identity as video game players. 00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:30.400 align:middle line:84% And I think that indie games can be seen as a kind of response 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:30.900 align:middle line:90% to that. 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:34.410 align:middle line:84% It's something-- it allows you to feel that you 00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:36.800 align:middle line:90% have a particular place, right? 00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:46.220 align:middle line:84% So according to authenticity and the [INAUDIBLE] Richard 00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:49.190 align:middle line:84% Peterson talked about the idea of the authentic-- 00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:52.670 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] So one of the things he studied is country music. 00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:57.060 align:middle line:84% And he looks at how different people argue 00:28:57.060 --> 00:28:59.300 align:middle line:84% for various types of country music 00:28:59.300 --> 00:29:01.665 align:middle line:84% as being authentic in different ways. 00:29:01.665 --> 00:29:05.085 align:middle line:84% So it can be authentic in terms of who recorded it, 00:29:05.085 --> 00:29:09.810 align:middle line:84% or in terms of style, or various things like that. 00:29:09.810 --> 00:29:12.110 align:middle line:84% And so he says that authenticity works 00:29:12.110 --> 00:29:15.450 align:middle line:84% when people try to put in effort in order to make something 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:16.225 align:middle line:90% appear authentic. 00:29:16.225 --> 00:29:19.290 align:middle line:84% So it's just like the restaurant that they 00:29:19.290 --> 00:29:23.430 align:middle line:84% spend energy listing all of the places 00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:26.390 align:middle line:84% from where they got their ingredients to make 00:29:26.390 --> 00:29:29.195 align:middle line:84% the whole menu appear more authentic and local. 00:29:29.195 --> 00:29:32.410 align:middle line:90% 00:29:32.410 --> 00:29:33.790 align:middle line:90% A kind of critical-- 00:29:33.790 --> 00:29:35.750 align:middle line:84% this particular kind of critical argument 00:29:35.750 --> 00:29:38.970 align:middle line:84% against the thing that you like is, 00:29:38.970 --> 00:29:40.860 align:middle line:84% to be experienced as authentic, something 00:29:40.860 --> 00:29:42.030 align:middle line:90% must be marked as authentic. 00:29:42.030 --> 00:29:44.370 align:middle line:84% And this makes it authentic-- inauthentic 00:29:44.370 --> 00:29:47.220 align:middle line:84% rather because something has been done deliberately. 00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:50.130 align:middle line:84% And you can certainly see all kinds of products, 00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:52.590 align:middle line:84% obviously, where you can see there's 00:29:52.590 --> 00:29:54.015 align:middle line:90% some kind of advertising agent. 00:29:54.015 --> 00:29:58.170 align:middle line:84% He has spent a large amount of time trying to figure out 00:29:58.170 --> 00:30:00.350 align:middle line:84% how to make that particular thing look 00:30:00.350 --> 00:30:03.360 align:middle line:84% authentic-- by choosing the right [INAUDIBLE] or colors, 00:30:03.360 --> 00:30:06.840 align:middle line:84% or making it appear like an old country store 00:30:06.840 --> 00:30:09.090 align:middle line:84% even though it's a big multi-billion dollar 00:30:09.090 --> 00:30:11.250 align:middle line:90% corporation. 00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:14.690 align:middle line:90% And so you could see this as-- 00:30:14.690 --> 00:30:16.350 align:middle line:90% you can think of-- 00:30:16.350 --> 00:30:19.370 align:middle line:84% this would be a critical idea of-- 00:30:19.370 --> 00:30:21.480 align:middle line:84% this would be a critical think you can 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:22.680 align:middle line:90% say about independent games. 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.138 align:middle line:84% But of course you don't necessarily 00:30:24.138 --> 00:30:27.480 align:middle line:84% have to make games with this particular style, right? 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.950 align:middle line:84% And then test it in ways that something 00:30:29.950 --> 00:30:32.720 align:middle line:84% inauthentic about choosing a kind of style 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.360 align:middle line:90% to seem authentic. 00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:39.250 align:middle line:84% And so I think it's also a bit more complicated like that, 00:30:39.250 --> 00:30:41.890 align:middle line:84% right, because, in a way, just the fact 00:30:41.890 --> 00:30:43.790 align:middle line:84% that it's possible to make a game 00:30:43.790 --> 00:30:46.730 align:middle line:90% and choose a particular style. 00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:49.515 align:middle line:84% That style is so interesting because it's actually 00:30:49.515 --> 00:30:51.760 align:middle line:84% cheap-- it is fairly cheap to make games 00:30:51.760 --> 00:30:55.720 align:middle line:84% with large pixel or scanned paper, or things like that. 00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:59.370 align:middle line:84% So even though you could say it's not-- 00:30:59.370 --> 00:31:03.040 align:middle line:84% it's something that people deliberately choose. 00:31:03.040 --> 00:31:05.405 align:middle line:84% And so it's not authentic in that sense, 00:31:05.405 --> 00:31:08.490 align:middle line:84% but it's still something that enables game development. 00:31:08.490 --> 00:31:10.420 align:middle line:84% It does solve that particular problem 00:31:10.420 --> 00:31:13.010 align:middle line:84% of how do you make a game on a small budget 00:31:13.010 --> 00:31:16.780 align:middle line:84% and make it appear as a deliberate choice, rather 00:31:16.780 --> 00:31:19.415 align:middle line:84% than just a game with too small a budget. 00:31:19.415 --> 00:31:21.960 align:middle line:84% So you can see that this is what that particular style does. 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:26.340 align:middle line:90% 00:31:26.340 --> 00:31:28.120 align:middle line:84% I should say there are a few games that we 00:31:28.120 --> 00:31:30.453 align:middle line:84% tend to talk of as independent which doesn't necessarily 00:31:30.453 --> 00:31:32.820 align:middle line:90% match this style. 00:31:32.820 --> 00:31:36.674 align:middle line:84% So [INAUDIBLE] is a particularly interesting case 00:31:36.674 --> 00:31:38.340 align:middle line:84% because it does have this representation 00:31:38.340 --> 00:31:41.120 align:middle line:90% of a representation style. 00:31:41.120 --> 00:31:43.260 align:middle line:84% It's made to look at the painting. 00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:45.890 align:middle line:84% So in a particular way, it's not meant 00:31:45.890 --> 00:31:50.714 align:middle line:84% to look as somebody tried to off-hand improvise 00:31:50.714 --> 00:31:51.630 align:middle line:90% a painting or drawing. 00:31:51.630 --> 00:31:55.610 align:middle line:84% It's actually meant to look a bit like fine art. 00:31:55.610 --> 00:31:57.160 align:middle line:84% And so, you see, it-- in a way it 00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:58.930 align:middle line:84% has this thing of being a representation 00:31:58.930 --> 00:31:59.950 align:middle line:90% of a representation. 00:31:59.950 --> 00:32:03.300 align:middle line:84% But here it's actually supposed to signal this having fine 00:32:03.300 --> 00:32:06.160 align:middle line:90% and nice or sophisticated. 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:10.210 align:middle line:84% And there is-- and I think this [INAUDIBLE]. 00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:11.702 align:middle line:90% You guys play [INAUDIBLE]? 00:32:11.702 --> 00:32:14.360 align:middle line:90% 00:32:14.360 --> 00:32:17.590 align:middle line:84% So [INAUDIBLE] is meant to be a kind of work 00:32:17.590 --> 00:32:20.470 align:middle line:84% of art with a capital A. And I do 00:32:20.470 --> 00:32:23.790 align:middle line:84% think this is why that particular style was chosen. 00:32:23.790 --> 00:32:25.650 align:middle line:90% I think it's a bit simplistic