WEBVTT 00:00:04.277 --> 00:00:06.110 RICHARD EBERHARDT: My name's Rick Eberhardt. 00:00:06.110 --> 00:00:08.370 I'm the studio manager for the MIT Game Lab. 00:00:08.370 --> 00:00:13.160 I've been with the lab since 2007, 2006, 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:17.020 so since we formed a long, long time ago. 00:00:17.020 --> 00:00:20.020 Before I worked at the lab, most of my background 00:00:20.020 --> 00:00:22.440 has been doing information technology 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:28.370 for academics, institutes, so colleges and universities. 00:00:28.370 --> 00:00:30.860 I always had an interest in games. 00:00:30.860 --> 00:00:35.590 I actually had a cultural studies degree in college 00:00:35.590 --> 00:00:36.310 for my undergrad. 00:00:36.310 --> 00:00:40.270 So coming to the lab, working at the lab for that first year 00:00:40.270 --> 00:00:41.943 as a system administrator really opened 00:00:41.943 --> 00:00:44.420 my eyes to all the different things games can do 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:47.540 and the different potentials games have, but also made me 00:00:47.540 --> 00:00:49.920 realize I can actually start making these kinds of things 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.320 on my own too. 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.850 So since I've started working at the lab, 00:00:54.850 --> 00:00:57.720 I've taken on more duties related 00:00:57.720 --> 00:01:00.950 to project management, things I'd already 00:01:00.950 --> 00:01:06.380 done a lot in IT-- managing people managing projects. 00:01:06.380 --> 00:01:10.941 I teach this Creating Video Games course, 00:01:10.941 --> 00:01:12.440 and for the most part in the course, 00:01:12.440 --> 00:01:15.100 I'm interested in teaching the product management techniques, 00:01:15.100 --> 00:01:18.070 but also the soft skills and the social skills. 00:01:18.070 --> 00:01:19.230 I'm an introvert. 00:01:19.230 --> 00:01:22.240 I have a really hard time having conversations with people. 00:01:22.240 --> 00:01:26.760 And I've had to, in my years in my profession, 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:31.220 figure out ways to not let that be a restriction, 00:01:31.220 --> 00:01:33.040 and actually use that to my advantage 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.340 when I'm talking with teams. 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:38.070 And I find it really successful, actually, in game development. 00:01:38.070 --> 00:01:40.380 I don't know if it could be successful elsewhere, 00:01:40.380 --> 00:01:42.300 but there's a lot of other like-minded people like me 00:01:42.300 --> 00:01:43.133 in game development. 00:01:43.133 --> 00:01:46.550 So it's good to have, for me, to be 00:01:46.550 --> 00:01:51.550 able to use those skills in that setting. 00:01:51.550 --> 00:01:53.300 The other advantage I have at the Game Lab 00:01:53.300 --> 00:01:55.570 is I get to do research. 00:01:55.570 --> 00:01:57.820 I get to help with research on various different types 00:01:57.820 --> 00:01:58.570 of projects. 00:01:58.570 --> 00:02:02.780 So my personal research interests 00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:06.060 tend to be towards closer to what 00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:08.500 this class is talking about-- this meaningful decision 00:02:08.500 --> 00:02:09.580 making. 00:02:09.580 --> 00:02:12.840 I've done some research in using board games 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:16.450 to teach decision making, in particular, like economic 00:02:16.450 --> 00:02:19.890 concepts, like opportunity cost. 00:02:19.890 --> 00:02:23.280 I'm interested in social experiences in games, 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.840 and cooperative gameplay. 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:28.120 Past games I've worked on have been about all sorts 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:28.953 of different things. 00:02:28.953 --> 00:02:34.280 So anything from tools to help game developers make 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.440 3D characters animate faster-- basically 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:39.670 to speed up the workflow process-- 00:02:39.670 --> 00:02:41.510 to games about depression and games 00:02:41.510 --> 00:02:43.625 about other serious topics. 00:02:43.625 --> 00:02:45.250 I really like working with researchers. 00:02:45.250 --> 00:02:47.458 I like working with clients, and I like making games. 00:02:50.644 --> 00:02:51.560 What am I playing now? 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:57.120 So I am playing this game called Gridland, 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.380 made by the same developer who made a previous game called 00:03:00.380 --> 00:03:02.420 A Dark Room. 00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:04.336 It's kind of difficult to describe. 00:03:04.336 --> 00:03:05.710 It's basically a match-three game 00:03:05.710 --> 00:03:09.040 where you're like Bejeweled, you're matching gems. 00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:12.186 But there is a small supply chain mechanic 00:03:12.186 --> 00:03:13.310 going on in the background. 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:17.760 Where as I have the gems combined, 00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:20.610 I can upgrade my weapons, and I can upgrade my armor. 00:03:20.610 --> 00:03:22.610 And then when night comes-- so I'm matching gems 00:03:22.610 --> 00:03:25.120 in the daytime to upgrade things-- and when night comes, 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.110 I'm matching gems to summon enemies and to kill enemies. 00:03:29.110 --> 00:03:34.390 So this Gridland game has a daytime and a nighttime view 00:03:34.390 --> 00:03:34.899 of the game. 00:03:34.899 --> 00:03:36.690 And what I find really interesting about it 00:03:36.690 --> 00:03:39.054 is that all my decisions I make in the day 00:03:39.054 --> 00:03:40.720 are going to have some kind of influence 00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:42.420 in my nighttime decisions. 00:03:42.420 --> 00:03:44.720 So as I make my daytime experience easier, 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:46.845 I'm actually making my nighttime experience harder. 00:03:46.845 --> 00:03:49.230 So it's just a really interesting little challenge 00:03:49.230 --> 00:03:51.250 that the designers put for me to try to solve. 00:03:54.477 --> 00:03:58.270 So outside of the class, the kinds of games I'm making 00:03:58.270 --> 00:04:01.850 are non-digital prototypes, so card games, 00:04:01.850 --> 00:04:05.160 in particular, that are experimenting 00:04:05.160 --> 00:04:10.470 with things like a tech tree and a 4X-style game. 00:04:10.470 --> 00:04:13.040 So if you've played a game like Civilization, 00:04:13.040 --> 00:04:16.860 or StarCraft even, they'll have these tech expansion trees. 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:20.240 So I'm playing around with designing a game that's 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.630 largely just the tech tree. 00:04:22.630 --> 00:04:26.140 I'm doing that with a coworker here, Drew. 00:04:26.140 --> 00:04:30.350 I've also got a game I've been working on, 00:04:30.350 --> 00:04:32.450 off and on for the past couple years, 00:04:32.450 --> 00:04:35.720 about managing cities-- about three players trying 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:36.840 to manage a city. 00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:37.930 They're counsel people. 00:04:37.930 --> 00:04:40.924 I'm trying to convince the mayor about what decisions the mayor 00:04:40.924 --> 00:04:43.340 should make for the city, but, unfortunately, the mayor is 00:04:43.340 --> 00:04:45.460 just the role of a six-sided die. 00:04:45.460 --> 00:04:47.790 So you can try to convince him or her 00:04:47.790 --> 00:04:49.290 what you want, but it really doesn't 00:04:49.290 --> 00:04:52.544 matter because the mayor's got its own agenda. 00:04:52.544 --> 00:04:54.960 So then you're trying to solve the problems with the city, 00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:57.480 while also trying to solve your own personal-- trying 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.550 to basically get political gain while solving the city's 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:01.050 problems. 00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:06.960 There's a lot of different co-op experiences out there-- 00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:11.030 from anything from over the table like cooperative board 00:05:11.030 --> 00:05:14.415 games to couch style co-op in front of the TV. 00:05:19.590 --> 00:05:22.510 I'm trying to think my favorite co-op experience is definitely 00:05:22.510 --> 00:05:24.402 not Pandemic, which I think we're 00:05:24.402 --> 00:05:25.610 talking about in class today. 00:05:28.268 --> 00:05:31.660 I have a hard time deciding what my favorite co-op experience is 00:05:31.660 --> 00:05:34.480 because so often, one of the challenges of co-op games 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:36.810 is somebody takes control, and somebody 00:05:36.810 --> 00:05:40.590 says what the whole everybody on the team is going to do. 00:05:40.590 --> 00:05:43.060 And unfortunately, I'm one of those people. 00:05:43.060 --> 00:05:47.010 If I know the game, I'll start being bossy and I'll take over. 00:05:47.010 --> 00:05:49.610 And what I'd love to see more co-op games 00:05:49.610 --> 00:05:53.080 do is put in mechanics to prevent me from being a jerk. 00:05:53.080 --> 00:05:56.775 Or enable other people to override my jerkiness somehow. 00:06:00.890 --> 00:06:03.390 So the thing I look forward to most in this class every year 00:06:03.390 --> 00:06:05.890 is the playtest sessions, especially when 00:06:05.890 --> 00:06:09.110 it's the first time the team has brought the game into the class 00:06:09.110 --> 00:06:12.900 and they're putting it in front of new users, which we only 00:06:12.900 --> 00:06:15.650 have a couple opportunities for each project for that 00:06:15.650 --> 00:06:16.480 to happen in class. 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.539 After that everyone in the classroom 00:06:18.539 --> 00:06:19.913 has seen the game before, so they 00:06:19.913 --> 00:06:21.725 are not giving the same kind of feedback. 00:06:21.725 --> 00:06:24.100 And what I really like about it is when the games come in 00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:26.200 and they just don't work. 00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:28.190 They're broken horribly. 00:06:28.190 --> 00:06:29.990 Not when it's the technical problems-- 00:06:29.990 --> 00:06:32.465 not when it's the code crashing or it's the broken build. 00:06:32.465 --> 00:06:34.590 That's actually really sad, and I hate to see that. 00:06:34.590 --> 00:06:36.324 But when it's a design issue, when 00:06:36.324 --> 00:06:38.240 they thought it was going to do this one thing 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:39.906 and see the game doing this other thing, 00:06:39.906 --> 00:06:42.470 or they see the players doing this other thing, 00:06:42.470 --> 00:06:46.710 it's at that point that the students understand that OK, 00:06:46.710 --> 00:06:48.550 people do people things. 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:49.840 Humans are human, right? 00:06:49.840 --> 00:06:51.530 You can't always predict everything 00:06:51.530 --> 00:06:52.719 that they're going to do. 00:06:52.719 --> 00:06:54.510 But also that the systems that they created 00:06:54.510 --> 00:06:56.070 are actually incredibly complex. 00:06:56.070 --> 00:06:58.870 So the things that they need to do to fix the systems 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:01.647 are going to be reducing mechanics, removing things 00:07:01.647 --> 00:07:03.730 from the game, making it a little bit more simple, 00:07:03.730 --> 00:07:05.563 so that they can predict a little bit better 00:07:05.563 --> 00:07:06.689 about what's going on. 00:07:06.689 --> 00:07:08.105 But then on the flip side of that, 00:07:08.105 --> 00:07:09.521 though, there's sometimes when you 00:07:09.521 --> 00:07:11.576 see something happen in the game, 00:07:11.576 --> 00:07:13.200 and you just get this emergent gameplay 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:15.720 that is better than what they were going for. 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:17.330 They didn't realize they wanted it. 00:07:17.330 --> 00:07:18.788 When they see it in action, they're 00:07:18.788 --> 00:07:20.660 like, oh, this is actually really great. 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:23.620 What can we do when we're finishing this game 00:07:23.620 --> 00:07:26.229 to really capitalize on this mechanic or this system 00:07:26.229 --> 00:07:28.020 that we just didn't even realize was there? 00:07:31.550 --> 00:07:33.840 I really like systems. 00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:37.150 Outside of the class, I think this 00:07:37.150 --> 00:07:39.660 might be the thing that I actually, 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:41.190 I always had in some capacity. 00:07:41.190 --> 00:07:44.300 But really coming to MIT, working at MIT, 00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:46.430 it's much more part of my life is 00:07:46.430 --> 00:07:50.770 seeing the systems that surround us and the systems of history. 00:07:50.770 --> 00:07:53.050 I've always had an interest in history, 00:07:53.050 --> 00:07:55.310 and a little bit of interest in anthropology. 00:07:55.310 --> 00:08:01.510 But reading Charles Mann's books about 1491 and 1493, 00:08:01.510 --> 00:08:03.490 what happened during the Colombian Exchange, 00:08:03.490 --> 00:08:06.730 when all of these different ideas 00:08:06.730 --> 00:08:10.650 and products and agricultural things 00:08:10.650 --> 00:08:12.910 swapped places from East to West, 00:08:12.910 --> 00:08:16.616 from China to the Americas to Europe. 00:08:16.616 --> 00:08:18.490 There's just some really interesting systems. 00:08:18.490 --> 00:08:20.400 And a lot of the problems we're facing today 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:26.220 are the direct result of that big expansion 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:29.630 of ideas and trading of ideas. 00:08:29.630 --> 00:08:32.357 So I've always been interested in those kind of things. 00:08:32.357 --> 00:08:33.440 And I'm watching The Wire. 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:34.760 I really like The Wire. 00:08:34.760 --> 00:08:38.120 And just seeing the systems that are involved in city planning, 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:45.650 in police work, in education, in all these civic institutions 00:08:45.650 --> 00:08:48.080 that we just take for granted every day. 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.610 Yes, The Wire is a very critical and a very pessimistic 00:08:50.610 --> 00:08:51.420 view of it. 00:08:51.420 --> 00:08:56.780 But it is a great expression of just how all of these problems 00:08:56.780 --> 00:08:57.430 are connected. 00:08:57.430 --> 00:08:59.680 And some of the problems that we are facing right now, 00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:02.960 it's just we can't see the connections. 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:07.622 And I hope that, at least with games, with playing games, 00:09:07.622 --> 00:09:09.580 with making games, people can better understand 00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:13.910 how those systems work. 00:09:13.910 --> 00:09:19.390 For the future of games, games as expressions of systems, 00:09:19.390 --> 00:09:24.990 games as ways of exploring the world around us. 00:09:24.990 --> 00:09:27.620 We've always-- 1,000 of years ago, 00:09:27.620 --> 00:09:30.160 we used games as ways to communicate with each other, 00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:33.600 to have rituals with each other to better connect 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:34.379 with each other. 00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:36.670 And I think we can do that with just games in general-- 00:09:36.670 --> 00:09:38.128 not just video games, but all sorts 00:09:38.128 --> 00:09:40.590 of different kinds of games. 00:09:40.590 --> 00:09:45.470 So seeing that come back to both what people 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:48.267 are talking about when they talk about games in mainstream. 00:09:48.267 --> 00:09:50.225 Other than just this thing that's done for fun, 00:09:50.225 --> 00:09:51.724 it's actually this thing that's very 00:09:51.724 --> 00:09:53.470 important to human daily life. 00:09:53.470 --> 00:09:55.070 And we've been doing it for years. 00:09:55.070 --> 00:09:56.480 It's just it looks different now, 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:59.720 but it's still based on a lot of the same things.