1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,920 MARK ROBERTI: OK, thank you, ladies and gentlemen. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:04,050 My name is Mark Roberti. 3 00:00:04,050 --> 00:00:05,790 I'm going to be moderating this session. 4 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:09,930 I'm from RFID Journal. 5 00:00:09,930 --> 00:00:12,520 You've already met all of our panelists. 6 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,180 We have Simon Langford from Walmart, 7 00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:20,460 Claus Garbisch from DHL, Dick Cantwell from Gillette / P&G 8 00:00:20,460 --> 00:00:24,750 and Mike Rose from J&J. So the purpose of this panel 9 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:28,800 is to try to crystallize some of the ideas that 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,650 have been discussed over the past two days, 11 00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:35,730 and try to help you to begin thinking about how we can 12 00:00:35,730 --> 00:00:39,930 facilitate collaboration between the companies that are using 13 00:00:39,930 --> 00:00:44,010 RFID and the researchers who are investigating 14 00:00:44,010 --> 00:00:46,680 various aspects of deploying RFID. 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:52,440 So I'll throw it out to any of our panelists. 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,560 What's the primary role that you see 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,740 the academic-- would like to see the academic community 18 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:03,360 playing in terms of helping you and your sector, your industry 19 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,780 at large, achieve the level of adoption 20 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:09,158 that you're hoping to achieve? 21 00:01:09,158 --> 00:01:10,700 DICK CANTWELL: I think one thing that 22 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:15,180 occurred to me in the morning session 23 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:18,600 was not only the ability to do the research, 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,900 but the ability to share that research across a broader 25 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:23,350 community. 26 00:01:23,350 --> 00:01:26,190 I find in the conferences that I attend 27 00:01:26,190 --> 00:01:27,720 people are very interested in what 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,740 I have to say, what others have to say, which says to me 29 00:01:31,740 --> 00:01:36,900 that there's a great need for coordinating that research, 30 00:01:36,900 --> 00:01:38,310 synergizing that research. 31 00:01:38,310 --> 00:01:41,250 And I think it's great that this community is coming together 32 00:01:41,250 --> 00:01:44,715 to try to do that. 33 00:01:44,715 --> 00:01:47,125 MICHAEL ROSE: I think the other area, too, that-- 34 00:01:47,125 --> 00:01:49,060 this is a great two-day session. 35 00:01:49,060 --> 00:01:52,420 I think we're were caught up in responding 36 00:01:52,420 --> 00:01:55,690 to the needs of our customers, the regulators, 37 00:01:55,690 --> 00:01:57,470 wherever we might be. 38 00:01:57,470 --> 00:02:01,090 And I think that the important role that the research team 39 00:02:01,090 --> 00:02:03,200 plays is what's coming next. 40 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,390 So we're working on today's problem in my organization. 41 00:02:07,390 --> 00:02:10,070 What we need to be looking at is where the future might take us. 42 00:02:10,070 --> 00:02:12,070 And that's where I think it's invaluable to have 43 00:02:12,070 --> 00:02:14,335 the academic help and support. 44 00:02:14,335 --> 00:02:16,450 SIMON LANGFORD: I would add also I 45 00:02:16,450 --> 00:02:21,880 think it's important that the academic world actually 46 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:27,400 is in step with the end users. 47 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,850 And by that, what I mean is that they are learning alongside us 48 00:02:30,850 --> 00:02:35,470 as we pilot, as we learn, as we grow our deployments. 49 00:02:35,470 --> 00:02:40,030 And so the business issues we're trying 50 00:02:40,030 --> 00:02:43,200 to solve they're fully versed in those, 51 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:48,465 and we're not creating isolated companies. 52 00:02:48,465 --> 00:02:50,710 CLAUS GARBISCH: And from my point of view, 53 00:02:50,710 --> 00:02:54,760 when we are doing the test, we are always having 54 00:02:54,760 --> 00:03:01,720 some challenges, and that the academic community 55 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,700 is taking up these challenges. 56 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:07,270 Like we were mentioning, these metal 57 00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:14,710 and fluid problems, or what is the right technology 58 00:03:14,710 --> 00:03:17,920 for item tagging? 59 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,500 Is this HF, is this UHF? 60 00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:23,770 So there, to get the right answers, 61 00:03:23,770 --> 00:03:28,510 that we go forward with our testing with our customers 62 00:03:28,510 --> 00:03:30,145 that we do there the right steps. 63 00:03:32,945 --> 00:03:34,570 MARK ROBERTI: There's some talk earlier 64 00:03:34,570 --> 00:03:37,390 about incremental change Bill brought up 65 00:03:37,390 --> 00:03:39,370 versus radical change. 66 00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:42,250 Do you see the academic community focusing 67 00:03:42,250 --> 00:03:44,410 on the incremental change, or should they 68 00:03:44,410 --> 00:03:47,500 be more focused on what's potentially transformative 69 00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:48,820 in your businesses-- 70 00:03:48,820 --> 00:03:51,676 a combination of the two. 71 00:03:51,676 --> 00:03:53,400 DICK CANTWELL: I think they have to look 72 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,720 at a combination of the two. 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,290 I mean, we're still at the very, very beginning of implementing 74 00:03:58,290 --> 00:04:00,780 this technology, and we have some very basic 75 00:04:00,780 --> 00:04:04,440 fundamental questions to solve. 76 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,490 Shaving a couple cents off of a tag price 77 00:04:08,490 --> 00:04:12,570 is very meaningful in getting us to the next incremental step 78 00:04:12,570 --> 00:04:16,296 versus having it. 79 00:04:16,296 --> 00:04:18,600 MICHAEL ROSE: I think what's also interesting, 80 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,510 if you equate it to the web, if you go back 81 00:04:21,510 --> 00:04:22,710 where it all started-- 82 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:24,090 MARK ROBERTI: Sorry, are these mics working? 83 00:04:24,090 --> 00:04:26,007 MICHAEL ROSE: I don't know if they're working. 84 00:04:26,007 --> 00:04:27,390 Yeah. 85 00:04:27,390 --> 00:04:29,645 OK, if you put it to the web, I think 86 00:04:29,645 --> 00:04:31,020 what we're missing here with RFID 87 00:04:31,020 --> 00:04:34,620 yet is the killer application. 88 00:04:34,620 --> 00:04:37,650 And we have to create some consumer draw on this right 89 00:04:37,650 --> 00:04:39,550 now is all very supply chain-focused. 90 00:04:39,550 --> 00:04:40,607 It's very interesting. 91 00:04:40,607 --> 00:04:42,690 But the reality is, when you look at the internet, 92 00:04:42,690 --> 00:04:44,398 you look at the world wide web, it really 93 00:04:44,398 --> 00:04:47,770 didn't get interesting until the consumer got engaged in it. 94 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:49,140 So I see RFID the same way. 95 00:04:49,140 --> 00:04:51,140 That's why I was particularly excited about some 96 00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:52,682 of the work that's going on in Korea. 97 00:04:52,682 --> 00:04:55,050 You start seeing some, where maybe in the future 98 00:04:55,050 --> 00:04:56,580 you go aha, that makes some sense. 99 00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:59,010 Then you can start taking that back to our brand teams 100 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:01,380 and building that into future design of products. 101 00:05:01,380 --> 00:05:04,665 So I support the academic-- 102 00:05:04,665 --> 00:05:06,420 Dick's statement of working on both. 103 00:05:06,420 --> 00:05:09,570 But I'm really looking for transformational ideas. 104 00:05:09,570 --> 00:05:12,570 And that's our view within the RFID effort within Johnson 105 00:05:12,570 --> 00:05:14,340 & Johnson is trying to look through it 106 00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:17,070 and how it may transform our business. 107 00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:18,870 MARK ROBERTI: Is there a danger, though, 108 00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:23,580 that academics will go off and explore pie 109 00:05:23,580 --> 00:05:26,190 in the sky, potential applications that 110 00:05:26,190 --> 00:05:31,220 really don't have any relevance, or wind up not being practical? 111 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:34,050 SIMON LANGFORD: I think that's where Dick was saying 112 00:05:34,050 --> 00:05:35,670 about a little bit of both. 113 00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:40,410 That at least at the feet on the ground that you can understand 114 00:05:40,410 --> 00:05:43,050 our current processes and how we're trying to evolve, 115 00:05:43,050 --> 00:05:45,390 and really when is the tipping point when 116 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:48,150 we can take those transformational changes 117 00:05:48,150 --> 00:05:52,770 without disrupting the workflow and pattern of the associates 118 00:05:52,770 --> 00:05:53,715 on the ground? 119 00:05:53,715 --> 00:05:55,470 MARK ROBERTI: All right. 120 00:05:55,470 --> 00:05:58,750 Simon, I know you've worked closely with Bill 121 00:05:58,750 --> 00:06:01,650 at the University of Arkansas. 122 00:06:01,650 --> 00:06:03,720 Any thoughts on that collaboration 123 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,770 and the benefits that your company has 124 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:09,856 received from that work? 125 00:06:09,856 --> 00:06:12,727 SIMON LANGFORD: Lots of benefits. 126 00:06:12,727 --> 00:06:14,310 In terms of that working relationship, 127 00:06:14,310 --> 00:06:16,680 it's been very much a two-way street. 128 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:24,180 And not just giving a prospectus or a piece of work or research 129 00:06:24,180 --> 00:06:27,070 for building his team to go and look at, 130 00:06:27,070 --> 00:06:30,570 but also to get those ideas coming back to us 131 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:33,570 and those challenges and those questions of why do you 132 00:06:33,570 --> 00:06:34,630 do it this way. 133 00:06:34,630 --> 00:06:36,930 Why not this way currently with systems 134 00:06:36,930 --> 00:06:39,120 you already have in place? 135 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:44,250 But that two-way dialogue and regular updates-- and I 136 00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:46,980 think Bill would agree, both him and his team 137 00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:51,990 have benefited from on-the-ground, working 138 00:06:51,990 --> 00:06:55,500 the process in our stores, in our distribution centers, 139 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:57,720 understanding our current situation, 140 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,540 and where we want to move to, whether that be pie 141 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:04,150 in the sky or blue sky stuff. 142 00:07:04,150 --> 00:07:07,230 But those are iterative steps to get us to. 143 00:07:07,230 --> 00:07:08,670 MARK ROBERTI: Do any of the other 144 00:07:08,670 --> 00:07:12,060 panelists have any experience with the academic community? 145 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:14,550 I know, Dick, you worked closely with the Auto-ID Center 146 00:07:14,550 --> 00:07:16,350 in the early days. 147 00:07:16,350 --> 00:07:19,230 Any thoughts on this collaboration, 148 00:07:19,230 --> 00:07:21,693 how important it is and where it should go? 149 00:07:21,693 --> 00:07:23,610 DICK CANTWELL: Well, we've worked very closely 150 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:26,670 really from the early days of the Auto-ID Center with MIT. 151 00:07:26,670 --> 00:07:30,090 Part of it is our proximity across the river. 152 00:07:30,090 --> 00:07:32,850 Not only is there the ability to stretch the mind 153 00:07:32,850 --> 00:07:35,940 and bring real creative academic thinking, 154 00:07:35,940 --> 00:07:41,460 but there's a point of independence. 155 00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:44,970 I mean, we deal with many, many technology vendors, all of whom 156 00:07:44,970 --> 00:07:46,530 are trying to sell us stuff. 157 00:07:46,530 --> 00:07:50,790 And that's valuable partnerships. 158 00:07:50,790 --> 00:07:53,760 But having an independent third party who's academically 159 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,440 grounded, who can look at a business problem, a supply 160 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,560 chain issue, engineer a solution, and come back to you 161 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,880 with data, it adds a certain amount of credibility 162 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,190 to help us with our management, and also, I 163 00:08:08,190 --> 00:08:14,690 think make industry comfortable with the conclusions. 164 00:08:14,690 --> 00:08:19,540 MARK ROBERTI: OK, you've heard some of the papers that 165 00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:21,220 have been presented today. 166 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:24,490 I wonder if the panel could give some general thoughts 167 00:08:24,490 --> 00:08:28,510 about the research that you heard about. 168 00:08:28,510 --> 00:08:29,920 Is it practical? 169 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,480 Is it productive? 170 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,789 Are the things you would like to see being 171 00:08:33,789 --> 00:08:34,960 done that aren't being done? 172 00:08:40,251 --> 00:08:42,470 MICHAEL ROSE: What I heard over the last days, 173 00:08:42,470 --> 00:08:43,809 I it was very worthwhile. 174 00:08:43,809 --> 00:08:47,462 I thought the research seems to be very, very practical, very 175 00:08:47,462 --> 00:08:48,920 well-oriented to the issues that we 176 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,190 have within our industry of trying to figure out 177 00:08:52,190 --> 00:08:56,150 the right approach for tagging of our products, the effect 178 00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:59,195 of various material types and on RFID. 179 00:08:59,195 --> 00:09:01,760 I think it's very well directed research. 180 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,513 I think it was an interesting point-- 181 00:09:03,513 --> 00:09:04,930 I think maybe, Simon, you may have 182 00:09:04,930 --> 00:09:06,750 raised in your presentation, around 183 00:09:06,750 --> 00:09:10,320 can we ever get to replacing EAS tags with RFID? 184 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,500 It'd be great to get an answer on that. 185 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:14,660 So, I mean, just some basic stuff like that, 186 00:09:14,660 --> 00:09:17,330 and I think that's very, very basic 187 00:09:17,330 --> 00:09:18,740 applied research that's needed. 188 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:21,210 MARK ROBERTI: Right, OK, any other thoughts? 189 00:09:25,860 --> 00:09:29,880 OK, Mike, you mentioned during your presentation 190 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,830 that there's a need, particularly 191 00:09:31,830 --> 00:09:34,320 in the pharmaceutical industry, for the whole industry 192 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,100 to move forward. 193 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:37,180 That you can't have track and trace 194 00:09:37,180 --> 00:09:40,290 if the distributors don't do it, but the retailers 195 00:09:40,290 --> 00:09:42,930 and the manufacturers do. 196 00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:47,100 Is there any opportunity for industries to come together 197 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:51,420 to support larger-scale projects, such as the Promise 198 00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:55,320 Project that Dmitri presented? 199 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,850 It seems to me there's a lot of research to be done, 200 00:09:59,850 --> 00:10:01,710 and it would be helpful if there was 201 00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:04,640 some way of funding that and organizing that. 202 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,800 MICHAEL ROSE: Yeah, I think what we all struggle with 203 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,600 is, when you bring in a new technology, 204 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,560 how do you adopt it within the industry. 205 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:15,090 So I think somewhere, we need help from academia in how best 206 00:10:15,090 --> 00:10:18,360 to adopt RFID in the industry. 207 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,760 So yeah, I think some of those larger efforts 208 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,650 are very important to be funded, absolutely. 209 00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:26,250 MARK ROBERTI: Are there industry organizations 210 00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:32,960 that could potentially drum up some funding from members 211 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,980 that could go into that kind of thing? 212 00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:36,980 MICHAEL ROSE: Well, if I'm speaking specifically 213 00:10:36,980 --> 00:10:38,790 around health care, and specifically 214 00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:40,960 for pharmaceutical, health care is very complicated. 215 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,002 There's various segments even within health care. 216 00:10:43,002 --> 00:10:45,090 But just talking pharmaceutical right now-- 217 00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:48,300 and I see Ted nodding up there, we're 218 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:51,120 each members of various industry associations. 219 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,620 So the manufacturers are represented 220 00:10:52,620 --> 00:10:55,660 by pharma, bio, wholesalers by HDMA, 221 00:10:55,660 --> 00:11:00,810 you have the chain drugstores MECDS and CHPA, I think. 222 00:11:00,810 --> 00:11:04,560 So there's a wide variety of associations out there. 223 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:06,900 That's another avenue certainly to reach out 224 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:10,050 for funding, because right now, as we look 225 00:11:10,050 --> 00:11:13,680 at trying to adopt RFID within the pharmaceutical supply 226 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:16,950 chain, it's an area that as we talk within our associations, 227 00:11:16,950 --> 00:11:19,530 we recognize that we need other help. 228 00:11:19,530 --> 00:11:21,120 And it's not just the associations. 229 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,330 So academia plays a role in that, absolutely. 230 00:11:24,330 --> 00:11:26,280 MARK ROBERTI: Right. 231 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:27,030 Is there a-- 232 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:32,130 I think the problem that I see is, 233 00:11:32,130 --> 00:11:35,400 if you want to develop, say, a good item-level tag, 234 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,550 and you want to fund that research, 235 00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:39,930 you put a lot of money into that. 236 00:11:39,930 --> 00:11:42,210 You work with a research department, 237 00:11:42,210 --> 00:11:44,760 and then your entire industry, your competitors, 238 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,490 all get the benefits of that. 239 00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:48,810 So how do we overcome that problem? 240 00:11:48,810 --> 00:11:51,270 And my example is pharma, but I think 241 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:56,496 it applies to logistics or retail or other areas as well. 242 00:11:56,496 --> 00:11:59,200 MICHAEL ROSE: Well, I'll take the discussion away 243 00:11:59,200 --> 00:11:59,713 from pharma. 244 00:11:59,713 --> 00:12:01,630 I think what we're looking at here, regardless 245 00:12:01,630 --> 00:12:05,020 of the industry, is the adoption of RFID. 246 00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:07,930 The only power in it is if you have a large network that 247 00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:08,720 can adopt it. 248 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,850 So there's a huge network effect towards the adoption of RFID. 249 00:12:12,850 --> 00:12:16,000 So when you get to areas around the tag 250 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,330 and some of the supporting network infrastructure required 251 00:12:19,330 --> 00:12:20,800 to communicate that information I'm 252 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,720 not quite so sure that's a competitive advantage. 253 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,730 I think it's the actual use of that information, maybe design 254 00:12:27,730 --> 00:12:31,600 of new products and services off of that common infrastructure, 255 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,080 that become areas where we start to differentiate ourselves 256 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,656 from each other. 257 00:12:36,656 --> 00:12:39,460 SIMON LANGFORD: And I think Claus mentioned 258 00:12:39,460 --> 00:12:43,750 in our discussion earlier today, about collaborating and working 259 00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:48,430 within EPCglobal, and agreeing on the direction 260 00:12:48,430 --> 00:12:51,890 and where we need to have detailed research, 261 00:12:51,890 --> 00:12:56,070 whether that be on item level as we move forward or not. 262 00:12:56,070 --> 00:12:58,600 But I think that group of end users coming together 263 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,290 and that that collaboration has worked great so far, 264 00:13:02,290 --> 00:13:04,300 and has really moved us on a pace, 265 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:06,970 and make sure that the technology that's 266 00:13:06,970 --> 00:13:11,010 being developed is applicable, and will be deployed and used. 267 00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:14,350 CLAUS GARBISCH: And I think we have a responsibility 268 00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:19,870 as big global companies to move it forward, because we 269 00:13:19,870 --> 00:13:22,300 see so many advantages. 270 00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:25,330 But I would not say that, on the long run, 271 00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:27,640 it is a competitive advantage. 272 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,600 You may be an early starter, and you 273 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,240 want that all the others follow you, 274 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,720 because you believe in that technology. 275 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,600 And therefore, I think as the biggest global companies, 276 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,310 we have to go forward. 277 00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:47,967 We have to show that as an example, 278 00:13:47,967 --> 00:13:49,300 and then the others will follow. 279 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:50,500 MARK ROBERTI: Right. 280 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,990 Claus, you're in the middle of the supply chain. 281 00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:55,780 And we often hear about the benefits for the retailer, 282 00:13:55,780 --> 00:13:58,300 we hear about the benefits to the manufacturer. 283 00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:01,150 Are there benefits for the logistics provider, 284 00:14:01,150 --> 00:14:07,600 and are there applications where you can work with the research 285 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,420 community to drive some of the benefits for the logistics 286 00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:11,040 providers? 287 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,810 CLAUS GARBISCH: Yeah, I see it very strongly 288 00:14:13,810 --> 00:14:18,320 in parts which I have not mentioned today. 289 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:25,030 I would say the asset tracking for all our containers in the-- 290 00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:27,670 if you go there on the sea freight side 291 00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:32,440 or for our freight part, this is one 292 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,500 of the very important things. 293 00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:40,240 And in the supply chain, we have advantages as well. 294 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,190 The only thing what I was mentioning 295 00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:47,320 was that it might be that the retail side has 296 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:53,267 more advantages if it is fully deployed and fully implemented. 297 00:14:53,267 --> 00:14:54,100 MARK ROBERTI: Right. 298 00:14:56,950 --> 00:14:59,920 When the internet came along, companies 299 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,220 found some new business opportunities, 300 00:15:03,220 --> 00:15:06,190 new business models that hadn't existed before. 301 00:15:06,190 --> 00:15:11,470 Are there going to be some new business models for RFID, 302 00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:13,420 and should the research community 303 00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:15,350 be looking at those as well? 304 00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:17,800 And I'll just give you a potential example. 305 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,650 As a logistics provider, you're collecting a lot of data. 306 00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:23,770 You could be aggregating that data, and somehow 307 00:15:23,770 --> 00:15:26,860 perhaps selling that data to whoever 308 00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:28,600 would get value out of it. 309 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,310 Do you see opportunities like that, 310 00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:35,050 and would you like to see the academic community looking 311 00:15:35,050 --> 00:15:36,565 at those opportunities? 312 00:15:36,565 --> 00:15:41,920 CLAUS GARBISCH: Yeah, I think we are as a logistics provider. 313 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:47,450 In the past, we were only carrying goods, parcels, 314 00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:49,480 and pallets, and so on. 315 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,140 And today, I think we have another-- 316 00:15:53,140 --> 00:15:55,480 we carry more information. 317 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:00,730 And we see in this new community fields 318 00:16:00,730 --> 00:16:06,460 where we can find new products, and where maybe that we can 319 00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:09,490 store all the information, and that we 320 00:16:09,490 --> 00:16:14,080 are a mediator between our customers. 321 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,690 So we see there chances that we get their new products, 322 00:16:19,690 --> 00:16:22,420 and where we can find new products. 323 00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:25,840 MICHAEL ROSE: One thing that I received within J&J 324 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,600 is an RFID incubator fund. 325 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,372 And it's a pot of money that we put together last year, 326 00:16:32,372 --> 00:16:33,830 and we fund it again for this year. 327 00:16:33,830 --> 00:16:37,240 And we'll see how long we can continue this pot of funding. 328 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,700 And the idea is to help us to think differently 329 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:43,510 about this technology-- think transformationally. 330 00:16:43,510 --> 00:16:47,110 And so yes, I think there could be some new business 331 00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:48,787 models popping out of this. 332 00:16:48,787 --> 00:16:50,620 Some of the work that we've done internally, 333 00:16:50,620 --> 00:16:52,528 J&J tells us that that could be the case. 334 00:16:52,528 --> 00:16:54,070 So at least some exciting areas here. 335 00:16:54,070 --> 00:16:55,445 DICK CANTWELL: I think we're just 336 00:16:55,445 --> 00:16:57,530 starting to scratch the surface with some very 337 00:16:57,530 --> 00:16:58,790 basic applications. 338 00:16:58,790 --> 00:17:06,290 If I use the display examples from this morning from Procter, 339 00:17:06,290 --> 00:17:07,940 that's very basic stuff. 340 00:17:07,940 --> 00:17:09,890 It's just knowing that your display went out 341 00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:11,210 onto the sales floor. 342 00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:13,880 Once that display is on the sales floor, 343 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,040 it opens up a whole new set of opportunities 344 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,640 to understand how the consumer approaches that display, 345 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,800 how fast does the merchandise sell, 346 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,569 what locations in the store sell better than others? 347 00:17:27,569 --> 00:17:30,590 There's a tremendous amount of data and information. 348 00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:33,530 And then you can take it to the next level of actually starting 349 00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:36,860 to have an interactive experience with the consumer. 350 00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:39,380 That's all greenfield innovation, 351 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:44,240 once we lay the basic pipe to establish the technology. 352 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,870 MARK ROBERTI: OK, I'd like to go back to Simon's comment 353 00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:53,270 about working through EPCglobal and making sure 354 00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:55,040 that the research is on track with where 355 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,490 the industry is going. 356 00:17:58,490 --> 00:18:01,550 How do the people in the audience participate in that? 357 00:18:01,550 --> 00:18:05,930 Can they get involved with the BAG meetings? 358 00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:10,470 Is there a potential for opportunities 359 00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:13,520 for perhaps ancillary meetings around the BAGs, 360 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,890 where maybe they're not involved in the BAG meetings, 361 00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:19,640 but then come in afterwards and contribute? 362 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,002 I think a lot of people are struggling. 363 00:18:22,002 --> 00:18:25,040 They're reading what's going on from the outside, 364 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,860 and they're not really able to jump in. 365 00:18:27,860 --> 00:18:30,980 MICHAEL ROSE: Mark, in work with the EPCglobal, 366 00:18:30,980 --> 00:18:33,920 I'm a tri-chair of the Healthcare & Life Science 367 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,210 Business Action Group. 368 00:18:35,210 --> 00:18:37,860 And not to get into the detailed structure, 369 00:18:37,860 --> 00:18:41,180 we actually have one work group that's focused on R&D. 370 00:18:41,180 --> 00:18:44,120 And we would welcome some participation 371 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,510 from the various auto-ID labs to participate directly 372 00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:49,610 on that team. 373 00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:53,360 Frankly, it's a team that is looking at some longer range 374 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,600 areas of opportunity, but we really 375 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,120 could use the help from folks from MIT, 376 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:00,876 and any other auto ID lab. 377 00:19:00,876 --> 00:19:03,530 MARK ROBERTI: OK, that's good to hear. 378 00:19:03,530 --> 00:19:08,250 What about the sensitivity around your business processes 379 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:09,390 and what you are doing? 380 00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:15,390 So if the academics come in, do they need to sign NDAs? 381 00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:16,560 Is that an issue? 382 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,180 How does that relate to-- 383 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:22,560 if they're going to produce a paper or some publication, 384 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,420 how do we manage that sensitivity, 385 00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:27,510 so that we're getting work done, but we're not 386 00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:32,961 compromising a company's proprietary secrets? 387 00:19:32,961 --> 00:19:35,220 DICK CANTWELL: Any academic institution 388 00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:38,970 that does work with Procter will sign an NDA. 389 00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:41,950 But the value of having an academic institution 390 00:19:41,950 --> 00:19:46,860 do that work is, after the work is done, 391 00:19:46,860 --> 00:19:50,800 the proprietary information or connection can be culled out 392 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:51,300 of it. 393 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:52,680 It can be genericized. 394 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,160 It could be combined with other companies' data 395 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,900 that they're also working on. 396 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,170 And an academic white paper that's very compelling, 397 00:20:01,170 --> 00:20:06,670 that sends a message to the industry, can be published. 398 00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:09,470 SIMON LANGFORD: That's exactly the same situation 399 00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:10,780 from our perspective. 400 00:20:10,780 --> 00:20:12,490 MARK ROBERTI: OK. 401 00:20:12,490 --> 00:20:14,960 I'd like to open it up to the audience. 402 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:21,260 This is a chance to ask some of the leaders in the RFID sector 403 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:21,990 questions. 404 00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:26,300 So if you've got a question, come on down and fire away. 405 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:29,150 I know everybody's a little bit tired after two days. 406 00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:31,910 But Steve, go ahead. 407 00:20:31,910 --> 00:20:37,730 STEVE MILES: I have a question that's an area 408 00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:38,940 that we've been working on. 409 00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:42,890 But with this notion that we now have a common XML 410 00:20:42,890 --> 00:20:45,830 representation of something, now part 411 00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:49,010 of our challenge as industries is to work out 412 00:20:49,010 --> 00:20:50,870 how we communicate this. 413 00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:53,090 And in the XML world, those of us 414 00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:54,650 who live in web services-- and we 415 00:20:54,650 --> 00:20:56,570 started out this whole convocation 416 00:20:56,570 --> 00:20:58,640 with Steve Bradt saying, well, remember 417 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,700 it's not so much an internet of things as things 418 00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:05,540 connecting to the internet from the World Wide Web Consortium's 419 00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:06,890 point of view. 420 00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:12,020 So many of the technologies and opportunities 421 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:15,710 for data sharing that we've talked about over the last two 422 00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:19,250 days rely on a multipoint-- 423 00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:22,070 something like a web services transport. 424 00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:28,310 John presented the notion of Google capabilities and so on. 425 00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:31,310 But all of our legacy transaction systems, 426 00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:33,950 the businesses that we run together traditionally, 427 00:21:33,950 --> 00:21:36,680 the way in which we've shared data traditionally, 428 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,140 those of us who have done that successfully, 429 00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:42,390 has been in point-to-point EDI protocols. 430 00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:44,660 And there's the larger-- 431 00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:47,240 I mean, when we talk about what are some of the underlying 432 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,460 trends around us, this notion of moving 433 00:21:49,460 --> 00:21:52,700 to services-oriented architectures and something, 434 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,640 many of us have initiatives inside our companies. 435 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,280 But when we get down to supply chains, 436 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,810 we're still used to connecting point-to-point. 437 00:22:01,810 --> 00:22:05,390 So when I connect for data, even if it's the same XML schema, 438 00:22:05,390 --> 00:22:10,340 it's a separate call setup and a separate protocol 439 00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:13,790 if I'm connecting with one retailer or another. 440 00:22:13,790 --> 00:22:17,700 And I just wondered, from your perspectives 441 00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:21,950 of how you're moving with your organizations 442 00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:28,880 to this world of machine-readable content, 443 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,730 where you saw yourselves in that process, 444 00:22:31,730 --> 00:22:37,520 and whether there were roles for academia to play to assist 445 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:38,750 in making that transition. 446 00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:45,930 SIMON LANGFORD: In terms of where the data resides, 447 00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:50,910 I think that the data will still reside in our case 448 00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:55,690 with Walmart, and with the holder of that data. 449 00:22:55,690 --> 00:22:57,510 And so I think it's difficult to get away 450 00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:00,390 from that point-to-point, and even on sort of track 451 00:23:00,390 --> 00:23:03,690 and trace, than using the ONS to find out 452 00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:07,290 where that case or all that batch of product 453 00:23:07,290 --> 00:23:10,150 has actually been seen last. 454 00:23:10,150 --> 00:23:12,150 But I still think you're going to get to a stage 455 00:23:12,150 --> 00:23:15,930 where you're then going into point-to-point connections 456 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:20,582 to retrieve that information more detailed information. 457 00:23:20,582 --> 00:23:22,290 MICHAEL ROSE: Yeah, I think the challenge 458 00:23:22,290 --> 00:23:24,010 you articulate there, Steve, is based 459 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:25,965 upon our businesses between J&J and Walmart. 460 00:23:25,965 --> 00:23:30,480 It's not J&J and the community at large you know. 461 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,420 I think, however, there are mechanisms 462 00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:37,260 that we could posit that allow us to more open up 463 00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:38,740 the way we exchange data. 464 00:23:38,740 --> 00:23:41,790 So even though the business arrangements are one-on-one, 465 00:23:41,790 --> 00:23:44,490 and the data appears to be exchanged one to one, 466 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:45,990 or will exchange one-to-one, there 467 00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:48,000 could be some common mechanisms that 468 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,980 are used to exchange it across the community. 469 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:53,900 Because I can't see nature of business changing. 470 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,010 This case is, Simon's [INAUDIBLE] with Walmart. 471 00:23:56,010 --> 00:23:58,632 It's not with 55 other retailers talking to Simon. 472 00:23:58,632 --> 00:24:00,090 SIMON LANGFORD: [INAUDIBLE] to this 473 00:24:00,090 --> 00:24:02,620 is to have a common format. 474 00:24:02,620 --> 00:24:06,960 So when you pull up various data from different retailers, 475 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,620 then it's in the same format. 476 00:24:08,620 --> 00:24:10,530 And then you can just, machine to machine, 477 00:24:10,530 --> 00:24:12,930 handle that in the same way, which 478 00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:14,850 is less of a burden on the supplier 479 00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:17,220 or whoever is making that query. 480 00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:20,055 And I think there is, then, the big advantage. 481 00:24:20,055 --> 00:24:22,680 DICK CANTWELL: I think where academia can play a role, 482 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,040 once you have that common format, is to do some modeling 483 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,670 and demonstrate uses of the data that can go 484 00:24:29,670 --> 00:24:33,000 beyond point-to-point exchange. 485 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,250 Maybe it's a discovery mechanism that 486 00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:37,080 has something to do with counterfeiting 487 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:37,920 and authentication. 488 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:43,530 I don't know, but use the academic research 489 00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:48,082 to show how it can be done, and then industry will follow. 490 00:24:48,082 --> 00:24:50,040 SIMON LANGFORD: I guess building on that, Dick, 491 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,593 it's really some of the triggers. 492 00:24:51,593 --> 00:24:53,010 What triggers are you looking for, 493 00:24:53,010 --> 00:24:57,030 not just on track and trace, but on replenishment and out 494 00:24:57,030 --> 00:24:58,450 of stocks and things like that? 495 00:24:58,450 --> 00:25:00,570 One of the key triggers that you would 496 00:25:00,570 --> 00:25:04,260 want to then build algorithms and some logic 497 00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:05,850 within your systems that, instead 498 00:25:05,850 --> 00:25:09,150 of having to troll through masses of data manually, 499 00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:13,745 you're really then just working by exceptions. 500 00:25:13,745 --> 00:25:16,660 MARK ROBERTI: Question there? 501 00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:19,520 AUDIENCE: My name is [INAUDIBLE] I'm from China. 502 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,550 So I actually looked at you four here. 503 00:25:21,550 --> 00:25:23,770 I know you have big business in China-- 504 00:25:23,770 --> 00:25:26,600 like Walmart, purchase stuff from China, 505 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,380 and you open one more store in China DHL 506 00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:33,250 is really famous in China. 507 00:25:33,250 --> 00:25:35,470 But look at something-- 508 00:25:35,470 --> 00:25:39,130 China from the RFID industry and infrastructure 509 00:25:39,130 --> 00:25:41,620 is very different from the States and from Europe 510 00:25:41,620 --> 00:25:43,780 because it's really backward. 511 00:25:43,780 --> 00:25:48,940 So my question is, do you have special strategies 512 00:25:48,940 --> 00:25:53,470 for the RFID adoption for a company, especially for China? 513 00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:57,370 Or you will say that China will be just a part 514 00:25:57,370 --> 00:26:00,670 of your global strategies? 515 00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:04,540 And also the second question, I'm doing some research work 516 00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:05,690 for RFID in China. 517 00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:11,380 So do you have any requests or something we can do for you? 518 00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:14,440 Because we know China and we [INAUDIBLE] the technology 519 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,980 to see whether we can do some research 520 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:21,310 work for these global companies to have 521 00:26:21,310 --> 00:26:24,481 some suitable things for China? 522 00:26:24,481 --> 00:26:27,570 DICK CANTWELL: I think there's a huge opportunity for China 523 00:26:27,570 --> 00:26:31,980 to leapfrog a whole generation of legacy systems 524 00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:34,740 that exist elsewhere in the world, 525 00:26:34,740 --> 00:26:37,200 and be a real innovator, which of course would 526 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,395 be led by people like yourself. 527 00:26:41,395 --> 00:26:43,840 CLAUS GARBISCH: From our point of view, 528 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,730 we are working at the moment on one trial, 529 00:26:48,730 --> 00:26:51,620 which we call China Europe-- 530 00:26:51,620 --> 00:26:54,190 and this is on the fashion side, where 531 00:26:54,190 --> 00:26:58,060 we have one manufacturer who is sourcing in China. 532 00:26:58,060 --> 00:27:01,270 And we want to bring this stuff into Europe, 533 00:27:01,270 --> 00:27:05,080 and we want to do it first with RFID. 534 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:11,140 So this is the first trial where we want to go outside of Europe 535 00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:14,000 and try the overall supply chain. 536 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,725 But this is only on a fashion trial. 537 00:27:17,725 --> 00:27:21,880 SIMON LANGFORD: In terms of how we operate our business 538 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:28,840 in China, we try to have a level set of applications or systems, 539 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,600 so that if we make a change in any country, 540 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,230 we can very quickly roll up benefit to all our countries. 541 00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:42,320 And so in respect to that of your first question, 542 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,840 we would treat China as any other country 543 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,640 in terms of internal systems. 544 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,600 But I think it's important that we can all 545 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,710 work towards a common standard for RFID. 546 00:27:56,710 --> 00:28:01,030 That will mean that, whether we're operating internally 547 00:28:01,030 --> 00:28:05,410 with systems, or importing goods from China, 548 00:28:05,410 --> 00:28:07,780 those products are able to be read, whether they're 549 00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:12,755 going to Europe, the US, South America, around the world. 550 00:28:12,755 --> 00:28:15,130 DICK CANTWELL: If you're looking for a single application 551 00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:17,710 for research, one that would be particularly 552 00:28:17,710 --> 00:28:20,260 germane to my company is counterfeiting 553 00:28:20,260 --> 00:28:22,900 and authentication-- the ability to have 554 00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:26,980 a more reliable way to screen products and know what's real 555 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:28,780 and what's not. 556 00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:30,650 MARK ROBERTI: OK. 557 00:28:30,650 --> 00:28:33,700 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] we are going to do, 558 00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:35,800 really working out the anti-counterfeit issues. 559 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,180 And we joined the European committee project 560 00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:42,820 called [? Bridge, ?] and we're actually especially working 561 00:28:42,820 --> 00:28:44,440 for [INAUDIBLE]. 562 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,160 Thank you. 563 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,350 MARK ROBERTI: OK. 564 00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:46,850 [INAUDIBLE] 565 00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:49,420 AUDIENCE: Yes, hello. 566 00:28:49,420 --> 00:28:53,260 We've been meeting with certain manufacturers, which 567 00:28:53,260 --> 00:28:58,330 have been strongly asked to add RFID technology 568 00:28:58,330 --> 00:29:02,680 to their shipments that are going to a certain distribution 569 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,320 center or certain retail stores in the United States. 570 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,850 The manufacturers that we met said 571 00:29:09,850 --> 00:29:12,290 that they would be complying with the mandate. 572 00:29:12,290 --> 00:29:15,670 However, they were not always very happy to do it. 573 00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:20,110 Some of them that we've met said that they don't really 574 00:29:20,110 --> 00:29:25,180 see any short-term benefit in doing that 575 00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:26,290 at the present moment. 576 00:29:26,290 --> 00:29:29,860 They're trying to take a look at where the ROI would be. 577 00:29:29,860 --> 00:29:33,220 They think there is an ROI, but they don't know for sure. 578 00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:36,310 And their answer to us was, when we started asking them 579 00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:39,040 questions, we're going to go ahead with this because we 580 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,540 have to do. 581 00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:42,640 And we've met other retailers afterwards 582 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,150 who think that the whole Walmart initiative is a great idea, 583 00:29:46,150 --> 00:29:48,790 and they'd also like to do the same thing. 584 00:29:48,790 --> 00:29:51,850 But their suppliers are probably going 585 00:29:51,850 --> 00:29:55,600 to give them some pushback to implementing 586 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,400 the RFID technology. 587 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,440 So my question would be, what would 588 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,140 be some of the best practices that you've 589 00:30:02,140 --> 00:30:03,790 encountered or developed in order 590 00:30:03,790 --> 00:30:07,300 to help the suppliers and manufacturers implement 591 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:09,562 the RFID technology? 592 00:30:09,562 --> 00:30:11,770 SIMON LANGFORD: A couple of points I would make and-- 593 00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:14,770 I referenced this earlier in my presentation is-- 594 00:30:14,770 --> 00:30:17,170 an educational piece. 595 00:30:17,170 --> 00:30:19,450 Educating and sharing, as Dick mentioned, 596 00:30:19,450 --> 00:30:24,010 of whether internally you're working on white papers 597 00:30:24,010 --> 00:30:26,100 or with the academic world working 598 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:29,260 white papers, and research and development, 599 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:31,300 to share that with the wider community. 600 00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:35,320 And that's what we try to do to collaborate with our suppliers. 601 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,180 When we've asked our suppliers to join us on our initiative, 602 00:30:39,180 --> 00:30:42,580 it's not been, OK, you take these products or all 603 00:30:42,580 --> 00:30:44,720 these [? SKUs ?] in your portfolio. 604 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,820 And if you think back to Dick's presentation this morning 605 00:30:48,820 --> 00:30:51,280 about his advantage products. 606 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,200 And Gillette and P&G both independently looked 607 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,140 at their portfolio and chose the products 608 00:30:59,140 --> 00:31:00,910 that were right to tag. 609 00:31:00,910 --> 00:31:03,273 And there's one company now, P&G, 610 00:31:03,273 --> 00:31:04,690 looking at the right products that 611 00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:07,150 deliver ROI in the short term, but looking 612 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:10,090 at those next products that are just on the brink of delivering 613 00:31:10,090 --> 00:31:14,790 a positive ROI, and how do we get those into the program 614 00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:15,290 as well. 615 00:31:15,290 --> 00:31:16,300 And it may be cost. 616 00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:18,100 It may be technology developments. 617 00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:24,400 But I think it's incumbent on us all to share information, 618 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,910 where we're finding positive ROI in business cases 619 00:31:27,910 --> 00:31:28,760 to share those. 620 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,480 And that'll be different for every company, depending 621 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,350 how they're set up, how mature their systems are. 622 00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:41,140 And really, the same answer to the gentleman from China, 623 00:31:41,140 --> 00:31:44,860 where some smaller companies have got older systems. 624 00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:46,360 Then there's an opportunity for them 625 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,380 to leapfrog their computation as well. 626 00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:53,110 AUDIENCE: If I may have a follow-up question, 627 00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:55,810 companies like Procter and Gamble and Gillette 628 00:31:55,810 --> 00:31:59,140 are definitely seeing advantages to RFID from the presentation 629 00:31:59,140 --> 00:32:00,350 that we saw today. 630 00:32:00,350 --> 00:32:02,510 So according to you, what would explain 631 00:32:02,510 --> 00:32:05,260 some of the manufacturers are seeing advantages 632 00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:07,510 and are going forward with the RFID initiative, 633 00:32:07,510 --> 00:32:11,008 whereas others will probably give more pushback? 634 00:32:11,008 --> 00:32:12,550 SIMON LANGFORD: I think it comes down 635 00:32:12,550 --> 00:32:14,860 to taking a hard look at your business. 636 00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:20,790 If you look at P&G, for example, a very efficient company. 637 00:32:20,790 --> 00:32:22,660 But yet, they've still identified-- 638 00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:26,860 and I don't want to speak for you, Dick, internal benefits 639 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:29,590 and collaborative benefits. 640 00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:31,390 And that's a very efficient company. 641 00:32:31,390 --> 00:32:34,510 And as a technology matures, and we get into other areas, 642 00:32:34,510 --> 00:32:37,060 that will only go from strength to strength. 643 00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:40,330 And we've would not just got our top 100 644 00:32:40,330 --> 00:32:43,660 and the suppliers that are going live during this month, 645 00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:46,240 but we've also got volunteers, don't forget. 646 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,440 We have over 60 volunteers now in the program. 647 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,970 And those companies just haven't volunteered just 648 00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:56,200 for the heck of it. 649 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,930 They see real value, and a lot of those companies 650 00:32:58,930 --> 00:33:00,640 are getting real value out of it. 651 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:07,210 And knowing that where we are today in a number of DCs-- 652 00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:10,750 a handful of DCs and stores aligned to those DCs, 653 00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:14,410 yes, we're all investing in the technology today. 654 00:33:14,410 --> 00:33:16,120 But we're going to reach a tipping point 655 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,180 very quickly where we start to get that critical mass. 656 00:33:19,180 --> 00:33:21,520 MICHAEL ROSE: I think our observation around ROI 657 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,950 is you can't expect an ROI right away in this. 658 00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:26,470 I think there's a fair amount of experimentation and design 659 00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:29,930 of experiment that's required to figure out where the ROI is. 660 00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:33,650 So my advice to anyone getting into this, 661 00:33:33,650 --> 00:33:35,780 don't expect a real quick ROI right now, 662 00:33:35,780 --> 00:33:38,570 because you have to understand what products-- like, 663 00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:40,500 Dick went through selection of products. 664 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:43,070 It's a very important step to go through. 665 00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:45,830 And also, then you adjust your focus 666 00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:47,640 as you learn more and more about it. 667 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,760 So I think we're very close to Simon's point, 668 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,500 getting to the tipping point on this. 669 00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:55,395 But to the observations that you're hearing and comments 670 00:33:55,395 --> 00:33:57,020 you're hearing from some manufacturers, 671 00:33:57,020 --> 00:33:58,160 they're very real comments. 672 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,453 I can't deny that. 673 00:33:59,453 --> 00:34:02,120 But I think what they have to do is understand that dealing with 674 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,010 a little bit of an R&D-based approach and they're going 675 00:34:04,010 --> 00:34:05,180 to have to invest a bit. 676 00:34:05,180 --> 00:34:07,013 And they may not see that return right away, 677 00:34:07,013 --> 00:34:08,637 but they will see it down the road. 678 00:34:08,637 --> 00:34:11,179 And a question comes in is, if you're going to play the game, 679 00:34:11,179 --> 00:34:12,920 do you want to sit in the sideline 680 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,373 and watch the game occur and not participate? 681 00:34:15,373 --> 00:34:16,790 Or do you want to get on the field 682 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:19,100 and practice and participate? 683 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:23,120 DICK CANTWELL: I would reinforce what Mike said. 684 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,500 If you believe RFID is going to happen-- 685 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:29,300 and I think 99.9% of people believe 686 00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:31,699 that, then why don't you want to get in the game 687 00:34:31,699 --> 00:34:34,850 and help shape the future? 688 00:34:34,850 --> 00:34:40,400 In the process learn together, with your retail partner, 689 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,690 and create a strong partnership that takes the focus away 690 00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:49,610 from the day-in grind of price and promotion and negotiation, 691 00:34:49,610 --> 00:34:55,115 and begin to plan a future that is going to benefit you both? 692 00:34:55,115 --> 00:34:58,256 MARK ROBERTI: OK, question here? 693 00:34:58,256 --> 00:35:00,950 AUDIENCE: I'm Alfonso Gutierrez from the University 694 00:35:00,950 --> 00:35:02,690 of Wisconsin in Madison. 695 00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:06,290 My question is related to the impact of RFID 696 00:35:06,290 --> 00:35:09,770 in core management information systems, 697 00:35:09,770 --> 00:35:14,720 like manufacturing, resource planning, MRP, and DRP, 698 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,900 the distribution of resource planning. 699 00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:21,650 Those systems which let's say that we could consider core, 700 00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:25,910 but also may consider legacy types of systems related 701 00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:30,890 to new technologies, are based on, basically, inventory 702 00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:32,330 levels. 703 00:35:32,330 --> 00:35:36,440 And if we say that RFID is bringing 704 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,200 a new paradigm, where planning should 705 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,660 be done based on velocity-- 706 00:35:41,660 --> 00:35:45,380 meaning velocity, speed, and direction, 707 00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:51,800 those are terms that MRP and DRP don't know, don't understand. 708 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,150 So my question is, do you see those systems 709 00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:59,540 as resilient enough to absorb these new concepts, 710 00:35:59,540 --> 00:36:02,510 or they have to be revamped? 711 00:36:02,510 --> 00:36:05,220 If so, when do you see that happening? 712 00:36:09,098 --> 00:36:10,640 SIMON LANGFORD: One thing I mentioned 713 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,610 earlier is, I think there's a lot to learn 714 00:36:13,610 --> 00:36:16,140 still replenishment systems. 715 00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:21,620 And that's one area that academia can help with as to 716 00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:25,880 really what does RFID and the UPC data mean to replenishment, 717 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,980 for example, and our distribution methods? 718 00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:32,170 And as I said earlier, we don't know what we don't know. 719 00:36:32,170 --> 00:36:34,910 And as we start to peel the layers of the onion 720 00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:40,040 and look further into the data, there are more wows and ahas 721 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,248 along the way. 722 00:36:42,248 --> 00:36:45,440 DICK CANTWELL: Procter & Gamble believes very strongly 723 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,830 in a consumer-driven supply network. 724 00:36:48,830 --> 00:36:51,560 And RFID is going to be a huge enabler 725 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,050 to get that real demand signal that 726 00:36:54,050 --> 00:36:59,270 can then be worked back upstream eventually to the factory. 727 00:36:59,270 --> 00:37:04,040 And IT infrastructure and IT systems 728 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,520 are going to have to evolve to accommodate it. 729 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,250 But I'm not smart enough to tell you how that's actually 730 00:37:10,250 --> 00:37:12,672 going to happen. 731 00:37:12,672 --> 00:37:13,380 MARK ROBERTI: OK. 732 00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:14,540 Question here? 733 00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:18,420 AUDIENCE: Yeah, given that your companies have been studying 734 00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:20,440 RFID business models for some time, 735 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,470 and you've crunched through the numbers, 736 00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:26,310 I had a question related to item level and smart shelves. 737 00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:29,800 We've all talked about the $0.05 tag for a number of years. 738 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,540 But I was wondering if there's an equivalent price 739 00:37:33,540 --> 00:37:36,540 point for readers that you'd like 740 00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:42,450 to mention, either per reader or per linear foot of shelf space. 741 00:37:45,691 --> 00:37:48,060 SIMON LANGFORD: In terms of readers on shelves 742 00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:50,430 and that sort of thing, that's not really anything 743 00:37:50,430 --> 00:37:51,610 we've looked at right now. 744 00:37:51,610 --> 00:37:55,440 We've been looking at the supply chain, case and pallet. 745 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,620 I think as we get to that stage, I 746 00:37:58,620 --> 00:38:00,390 don't believe you're going to need readers 747 00:38:00,390 --> 00:38:03,240 on every single shelf in the store. 748 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:05,310 I think there will be different ways. 749 00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:08,640 And when we started to look at out-of-stocks, 750 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,237 using case level information, some people 751 00:38:11,237 --> 00:38:12,570 said, well, how can you do that? 752 00:38:12,570 --> 00:38:14,580 Surely, you need to be at the item level. 753 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:18,300 And we walked through our process 754 00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:20,010 and shared that with the industry 755 00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:22,200 as to how we can affect the customer shopping 756 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,727 experience at case level without going to the item. 757 00:38:25,727 --> 00:38:27,310 And that surprised quite a few people, 758 00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:29,143 and I think that there are still more things 759 00:38:29,143 --> 00:38:32,750 there that we can do with case than we know today. 760 00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:35,730 But in terms of reader prices in general, 761 00:38:35,730 --> 00:38:38,700 I would like to see those fall in line 762 00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:41,450 with how tech prices are falling over the last few months. 763 00:38:45,150 --> 00:38:47,220 MARK ROBERTI: I'll add a comment to that. 764 00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:49,470 Meadwestvaco, there's a gentlemen here-- 765 00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:50,460 they are smart systems. 766 00:38:50,460 --> 00:38:53,490 They developed a networking architecture 767 00:38:53,490 --> 00:38:55,880 that allows one reader to control many antennas. 768 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,580 So you don't necessarily have to have a reader on every shelf. 769 00:38:59,580 --> 00:39:01,650 You just put the antennas in, and then you cycle 770 00:39:01,650 --> 00:39:03,630 through the antennas and read the inventory. 771 00:39:03,630 --> 00:39:05,954 So it's a possible solution. 772 00:39:05,954 --> 00:39:08,177 AUDIENCE: I have a follow-up question now 773 00:39:08,177 --> 00:39:11,550 to Steve's question of whether it's peer-to-peer [INAUDIBLE].. 774 00:39:11,550 --> 00:39:13,710 I understand the business is always 775 00:39:13,710 --> 00:39:16,560 going to be peer-to-peer, Johnson & Johnson, Walmart, 776 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,210 because if you look at the supply 777 00:39:18,210 --> 00:39:20,940 chain, the movement of the RFID tags, 778 00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:23,330 the merchandise is going to, let's say, 779 00:39:23,330 --> 00:39:27,170 Walmart, DHL, and then Johnson & Johnson. 780 00:39:27,170 --> 00:39:30,380 Then that's just one chain, and Walmart is simultaneously 781 00:39:30,380 --> 00:39:33,620 have many suppliers, and Johnson & Johnson 782 00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:35,780 is supplying to many retailers. 783 00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:40,783 So Simon says they are always going to keep their own data. 784 00:39:40,783 --> 00:39:42,450 They're not going to surrender the data. 785 00:39:42,450 --> 00:39:47,930 So given those constraints, how will this kind of Google sync 786 00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:48,920 happen? 787 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,440 Because Google here, there's a spider 788 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,920 that visits all the websites unwilling to publish 789 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:55,620 those data. 790 00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:57,840 So put it another way, do you see 791 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:05,540 EPC as a data clearinghouse of all those potential traces 792 00:40:05,540 --> 00:40:06,270 of data? 793 00:40:06,270 --> 00:40:08,780 Or also, do you see other companies 794 00:40:08,780 --> 00:40:11,630 or other organizations that, if they follow, 795 00:40:11,630 --> 00:40:15,745 let's say, EPC standard, they can set up their whole data 796 00:40:15,745 --> 00:40:20,310 warehouse, the clearinghouse, sorry, 797 00:40:20,310 --> 00:40:23,370 so as to achieve the sort of overall holistic view 798 00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:27,656 of traceability [INAUDIBLE]. 799 00:40:27,656 --> 00:40:36,520 SIMON LANGFORD: [INAUDIBLE] is held by others. 800 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,620 But I think we need to take a step back as well 801 00:40:38,620 --> 00:40:41,540 as to what business problem we're trying to solve. 802 00:40:41,540 --> 00:40:44,050 Where do we want to get to? 803 00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:46,030 How do we want to work in the future? 804 00:40:46,030 --> 00:40:49,060 And then design applications and systems 805 00:40:49,060 --> 00:40:52,408 around that and meeting those needs. 806 00:40:52,408 --> 00:40:55,420 MICHAEL ROSE: Yeah, and your question 807 00:40:55,420 --> 00:40:58,430 about how will this Google approach be implemented? 808 00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:59,180 I don't know that. 809 00:40:59,180 --> 00:41:01,600 I haven't a brain big enough to figure that one out. 810 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,970 Sorry. 811 00:41:03,970 --> 00:41:08,320 But I think to Simon's point, we believe in a distributed 812 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,492 architecture around this. 813 00:41:10,492 --> 00:41:12,700 To think that it's all going to be centralized in one 814 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,330 place and one clearinghouse-- 815 00:41:16,330 --> 00:41:18,435 if Google could pull it off, maybe we'd 816 00:41:18,435 --> 00:41:19,810 would be willing to entertain it. 817 00:41:19,810 --> 00:41:23,170 But I'm not so sure yet that I see that and envision 818 00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:25,051 that right now. 819 00:41:25,051 --> 00:41:29,490 CLAUS GARBISCH: Actually, in my opinion, it's not [INAUDIBLE] 820 00:41:29,490 --> 00:41:32,416 MICHAEL ROSE: Right, but Google [INAUDIBLE].. 821 00:41:32,416 --> 00:41:35,190 MARK ROBERTI: But what about the issue 822 00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:37,170 specifically to the pharma industry, where 823 00:41:37,170 --> 00:41:38,400 you've got track and trace. 824 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,370 You may have the FDA that needs to go and get data. 825 00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:45,810 You may need a customs official that needs to go and get 826 00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:48,870 data on a shipment. 827 00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:52,170 There's got to be somebody who's going to hold those Epedigrees 828 00:41:52,170 --> 00:41:56,070 and guarantee that they're secure so that that data can 829 00:41:56,070 --> 00:41:57,360 be recovered, isn't there? 830 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,860 MICHAEL ROSE: Well, that's a very interesting question. 831 00:41:59,860 --> 00:42:03,430 It's still being sorted out with the regulations. 832 00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:05,523 So I think it's a little difficult to presuppose 833 00:42:05,523 --> 00:42:06,690 what the FDA may want to do. 834 00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:09,300 I mean, they comment about how they may want to dip in 835 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:11,470 and access this information. 836 00:42:11,470 --> 00:42:13,800 But even if they do that, today, if they 837 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,400 want to access information in, say, Johnson & Johnson, 838 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,970 and subpoena us for that information. 839 00:42:18,970 --> 00:42:21,810 So the question comes in is just because magically, we're 840 00:42:21,810 --> 00:42:24,300 now producing pedigrees, does it all of a sudden this 841 00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:26,930 open up access to everyone. 842 00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:29,190 I'm not so sure that that's realistic. 843 00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:33,210 MARK ROBERTI: Right OK, question here? 844 00:42:33,210 --> 00:42:37,460 AUDIENCE: I'm [INAUDIBLE],, and I'm a faculty at MIT. 845 00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:39,230 So it seems to me that RFID is currently 846 00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:41,030 in the adoption phase. 847 00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:45,030 So the next stage would be business processing 848 00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:45,630 and so forth. 849 00:42:45,630 --> 00:42:48,540 And then even further it would be business applications. 850 00:42:48,540 --> 00:42:50,663 So my question is, have you started thinking 851 00:42:50,663 --> 00:42:51,830 about business applications? 852 00:42:51,830 --> 00:42:54,200 And by that, I mean, for example, by using 853 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,190 RFID data to say improve replenishment strategies, 854 00:42:58,190 --> 00:43:02,180 improve forecasting, promotions, and so forth, 855 00:43:02,180 --> 00:43:04,470 even with respect to marketing, for example? 856 00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:09,560 And a related, similar question, is, so RFID will definitely 857 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,110 could save less stress on planning, 858 00:43:12,110 --> 00:43:15,020 because the supply blockchain will become more event-driven. 859 00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:18,720 Because RFID, it's about real time information. 860 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,720 So when do you see this transition, 861 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,150 or gradual transition, from planning 862 00:43:23,150 --> 00:43:27,230 more to being event-driven, more responsive, agile 863 00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:29,245 supply chains? 864 00:43:29,245 --> 00:43:30,620 SIMON LANGFORD: I would say we're 865 00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:31,830 moving into that next phase. 866 00:43:31,830 --> 00:43:35,390 We're right on the cusp of taking that next step with some 867 00:43:35,390 --> 00:43:38,546 of our key trading partners. 868 00:43:38,546 --> 00:43:40,890 AUDIENCE: I mean, I guess the question is, have you 869 00:43:40,890 --> 00:43:42,790 started thinking about the next step, 870 00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:44,280 which is business applications? 871 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,400 SIMON LANGFORD: Absolutely, involving 872 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,700 various parts of our business, as well as our trading 873 00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:55,620 partners, whether that be on accounts payable to look 874 00:43:55,620 --> 00:43:59,280 at proof of deliveries and how that would work, 875 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,010 and how we can evolve and work differently and smarter 876 00:44:02,010 --> 00:44:03,030 in the future-- 877 00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:07,080 to how do we replenish and how do we really work by exception, 878 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,930 but automate everything else in the background using EPC data? 879 00:44:10,930 --> 00:44:14,130 So I think there's a lot of work that's still to be done. 880 00:44:14,130 --> 00:44:17,070 Lots of ideas and lots of input from lots of people 881 00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:19,905 and different organizations. 882 00:44:19,905 --> 00:44:22,330 DICK CANTWELL: Once the tag reader infrastructure 883 00:44:22,330 --> 00:44:28,510 is in place, on whatever scale, business applications 884 00:44:28,510 --> 00:44:31,420 are going to come very, very quickly and exponentially. 885 00:44:31,420 --> 00:44:35,676 Because as you prove value, it's just going to beget more value. 886 00:44:35,676 --> 00:44:38,697 AUDIENCE: Thank you. 887 00:44:38,697 --> 00:44:39,780 MARK ROBERTI: [INAUDIBLE]. 888 00:44:39,780 --> 00:44:42,390 AUDIENCE: Hello, I'm Antonio Rizzi with the University 889 00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:45,120 of Parma, Italy. 890 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,490 My question is especially for the manufacturers, 891 00:44:47,490 --> 00:44:49,710 but also for Walmart. 892 00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:51,600 We've carried out research in Italy 893 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,760 to assess the potential of and RFID 894 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,300 and NPC global network on the fast-moving consumer goods. 895 00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:01,470 And we came out with one conclusion was that-- 896 00:45:01,470 --> 00:45:05,940 one possibility to cover the costs of tagging all pallets 897 00:45:05,940 --> 00:45:10,590 and cases could be found in the reduction of stock levels. 898 00:45:10,590 --> 00:45:13,710 And I've heard a lot about reducing out-of-stocks, 899 00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:16,710 but very little has been mentioned 900 00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:19,050 about the reduction of stocks. 901 00:45:19,050 --> 00:45:24,180 And I'm talking of both cycle stock levels and safety stock 902 00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:25,020 levels-- 903 00:45:25,020 --> 00:45:28,080 safety stocks because of the visibility and cycle stock 904 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,120 levels because of the possibility 905 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,690 to adopt transshipment strategies. 906 00:45:33,690 --> 00:45:38,400 I'm just wondering whether the manufacturers here-- 907 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,860 so Gillette and J&J have benefited from those stock 908 00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:48,510 reductions from weeks to days, because of the visibilities, 909 00:45:48,510 --> 00:45:52,230 if they quantify the reduction? 910 00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:56,010 And finally, if they've been able to adopt 911 00:45:56,010 --> 00:45:59,490 transshipment inventory pooling strategies 912 00:45:59,490 --> 00:46:04,148 because of this visibility for the APC global network? 913 00:46:04,148 --> 00:46:06,690 DICK CANTWELL: I think one of the reasons you don't see a lot 914 00:46:06,690 --> 00:46:09,870 of emphasis being put on inventory reduction right now 915 00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:13,740 is we don't have absolute confidence in what our in-stock 916 00:46:13,740 --> 00:46:16,140 position is-- 917 00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:17,730 accurate book stock, if you will, 918 00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:21,330 and accurate location of the merchandise. 919 00:46:21,330 --> 00:46:23,550 That is beginning to happen. 920 00:46:23,550 --> 00:46:28,080 We are beginning to identify real out-of-stock levels, 921 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,160 and beginning to put in place new processes 922 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,860 to be in stock more often and be able to locate inventory 923 00:46:37,860 --> 00:46:40,200 to keep the shelves filled. 924 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,450 Once that happens, and we have confidence 925 00:46:42,450 --> 00:46:44,460 in our in-stock position, then you're 926 00:46:44,460 --> 00:46:50,130 going to find that there's more appetite for lowering safety 927 00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:52,300 stock and reducing inventory. 928 00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:54,877 MICHAEL ROSE: I would say those areas you identified 929 00:46:54,877 --> 00:46:56,460 are ones that we're very interested in 930 00:46:56,460 --> 00:47:00,540 and we're monitoring, but it's very early stage. 931 00:47:00,540 --> 00:47:03,082 But they are key areas that we'd say, yeah, this 932 00:47:03,082 --> 00:47:04,290 could make some sense for us. 933 00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:06,690 It could justify our approach here, 934 00:47:06,690 --> 00:47:09,870 and could justify the expense of tagging products. 935 00:47:09,870 --> 00:47:12,750 So they are two key areas that we're certainly focused on. 936 00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:14,680 AUDIENCE: Yeah, thank. 937 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,340 CLAUS GARBISCH: And you can see it done on fashion. 938 00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:19,470 They do it. 939 00:47:19,470 --> 00:47:27,000 Because the stock due to the short season, 940 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,220 there it is worthwhile to do it with was tags fully. 941 00:47:32,220 --> 00:47:37,230 And then you can get these what you have mentioned, the stock 942 00:47:37,230 --> 00:47:38,180 reduction. 943 00:47:38,180 --> 00:47:40,105 MARK ROBERTI: OK, question here? 944 00:47:40,105 --> 00:47:41,820 AUDIENCE: Yeah, I have a question. 945 00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:44,700 On your slides, and also on your colleagues' slides, 946 00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:47,400 the word privacy occurred. 947 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:48,840 And the question I have-- 948 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,790 I mean, MIT in many papers the kill function 949 00:47:53,790 --> 00:47:58,080 is the optimal answer to solve all those privacy problems. 950 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,420 Some research I did also proposes 951 00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:06,090 that at least in Germany, 75% of consumers 952 00:48:06,090 --> 00:48:12,150 rather want to have chips killed at the retail store instead 953 00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:15,360 of using a privacy-enhancing technology. 954 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,240 Now, the question I have is, do you 955 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:23,370 think that killing the chip at the store exit 956 00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:25,620 will be the answer to privacy? 957 00:48:25,620 --> 00:48:28,521 Do you think that's realistic? 958 00:48:28,521 --> 00:48:30,570 DICK CANTWELL: No. 959 00:48:30,570 --> 00:48:34,230 I think as Simon said earlier, education 960 00:48:34,230 --> 00:48:39,750 is going to be the major opportunity 961 00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:47,850 to dispel concerns about privacy than respect 962 00:48:47,850 --> 00:48:52,530 of guidelines for the safe and responsible use 963 00:48:52,530 --> 00:48:54,720 of the technology. 964 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:59,280 The kill function, as it becomes technologically available, 965 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:05,850 is a necessary right of every consumer. 966 00:49:05,850 --> 00:49:08,790 I think what we will find is the educated consumer who 967 00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:10,890 has the option to kill or not kill 968 00:49:10,890 --> 00:49:12,200 is not going to kill the tech. 969 00:49:15,455 --> 00:49:17,550 SIMON LANGFORD: And also somebody-- 970 00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:19,470 I forget who it was, forgive me, mentioned 971 00:49:19,470 --> 00:49:23,160 about through that education and through people 972 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,940 using the technology and touching the technology will 973 00:49:26,940 --> 00:49:29,580 transfer to a consumer pool. 974 00:49:29,580 --> 00:49:32,910 They want to use the technology for things either in their home 975 00:49:32,910 --> 00:49:35,340 or for returns and warranty information-- 976 00:49:35,340 --> 00:49:36,520 that type of thing. 977 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,360 And there are huge benefits for consumers. 978 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,980 And rather than kill tags, then I 979 00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:45,300 know through some of the working groups, the Hardware Action 980 00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:47,650 Group, they're looking to reduce, 981 00:49:47,650 --> 00:49:49,380 for example, the read range. 982 00:49:49,380 --> 00:49:54,450 So a tag that may read 5 to 10 feet today to reduce that read 983 00:49:54,450 --> 00:49:56,340 range to contact. 984 00:49:56,340 --> 00:50:00,840 And so for privacy, if there's any concerns in the consumers' 985 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,000 mind about privacy, and they would normally 986 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,170 want that killed, then to reduce that read rate to contact 987 00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:11,070 still allows that customer to return that product, 988 00:50:11,070 --> 00:50:14,200 to look at the warranty information, the retailer. 989 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,890 And so it can service them and still add all those benefits. 990 00:50:16,890 --> 00:50:19,150 But that's all for the future. 991 00:50:19,150 --> 00:50:21,150 But as Dick said, the key thing is 992 00:50:21,150 --> 00:50:24,150 education and why we're using it, and what's on the tag 993 00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:26,710 and what's not on the tag about personally 994 00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:29,520 identifiable information. 995 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,160 AUDIENCE: Thank you. 996 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:32,680 MARK ROBERTI: Doesn't it also depend 997 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,130 on the category of products? 998 00:50:34,130 --> 00:50:37,540 So if it's clothes, I may not want a tag in my clothes. 999 00:50:37,540 --> 00:50:40,090 I may either want to cut it off if it's on a hang tag 1000 00:50:40,090 --> 00:50:40,990 or kill it. 1001 00:50:40,990 --> 00:50:42,520 Whereas if it's on-- 1002 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,670 I don't know, my television, I might 1003 00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:48,370 want to keep it so that if my television is stolen, 1004 00:50:48,370 --> 00:50:51,820 I could possibly recover it if it's found. 1005 00:50:51,820 --> 00:50:53,870 DICK CANTWELL: I think you're right. 1006 00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:55,750 I think that different products are 1007 00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:58,900 going to have a greater or lesser likelihood 1008 00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:01,520 to want to have the tag removed. 1009 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:08,470 But I think as Simon points out, as the benefits of the tag 1010 00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:12,700 and keeping the tag are more understood by consumers, 1011 00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:15,640 and they don't fear invasion of privacy 1012 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:21,580 because read range is not that large, it's not 1013 00:51:21,580 --> 00:51:23,440 going to be necessarily something they're 1014 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,220 very interested in spending the time to disable or remove, 1015 00:51:27,220 --> 00:51:29,240 because it's really not an issue in their life. 1016 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:31,210 In fact, it's something that's going 1017 00:51:31,210 --> 00:51:35,710 to give them more opportunities to interact with the product 1018 00:51:35,710 --> 00:51:37,020 after purchase. 1019 00:51:37,020 --> 00:51:38,230 MARK ROBERTI: OK. 1020 00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:40,570 AUDIENCE: I promise this is my last question. 1021 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,350 If RFID can have the potential to help Walmart better manage 1022 00:51:47,350 --> 00:51:49,480 their inventory, reduce out-of-stocks, 1023 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,570 and et cetera, other benefits, then 1024 00:51:52,570 --> 00:51:54,790 could the same be true for their manufacturers? 1025 00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:57,940 Could their manufacturers-- if they ask their suppliers 1026 00:51:57,940 --> 00:51:59,770 to incorporate RFID, could they also 1027 00:51:59,770 --> 00:52:02,470 better manage their production inventory 1028 00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:04,450 and their own processes? 1029 00:52:04,450 --> 00:52:07,390 Do you see this happening where the technology 1030 00:52:07,390 --> 00:52:13,070 will diffuse throughout the supply chain in that direction? 1031 00:52:13,070 --> 00:52:15,570 SIMON LANGFORD: I don't want to speak for the manufacturers. 1032 00:52:15,570 --> 00:52:19,410 But certainly, if there are benefits from our suppliers 1033 00:52:19,410 --> 00:52:23,520 to ourselves, and to the end consumer, then surely, 1034 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,490 there are benefits all the way up the supply chain. 1035 00:52:26,490 --> 00:52:30,720 And the session previously about packaging and the goal 1036 00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:32,790 for tags [INAUDIBLE] to be incorporated 1037 00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:36,000 into packaging, how can we better manage 1038 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,303 that packaging, that raw material in the process? 1039 00:52:40,303 --> 00:52:41,970 MICHAEL ROSE: Right now, we're very much 1040 00:52:41,970 --> 00:52:44,700 focused on working on the consumer 1041 00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:46,350 side with the retailers. 1042 00:52:46,350 --> 00:52:48,660 And then also in this whole area of patient safety, 1043 00:52:48,660 --> 00:52:51,460 there are two areas of focus. 1044 00:52:51,460 --> 00:52:54,200 Over time, you see it expanding from there. 1045 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,660 So yes, we can see where, as we receive goods, 1046 00:52:57,660 --> 00:52:59,790 we may want to have a tag as well. 1047 00:52:59,790 --> 00:53:01,440 We're not going to put it in a mandate 1048 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,490 to say [INAUDIBLE] tagged product that's coming into us. 1049 00:53:05,490 --> 00:53:08,740 We're not at a point where that makes sense for us. 1050 00:53:08,740 --> 00:53:11,378 AUDIENCE: OK, but this was a two-part question. 1051 00:53:11,378 --> 00:53:13,670 [LAUGHTER] 1052 00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:16,350 So if the suppliers are going to incorporate that 1053 00:53:16,350 --> 00:53:18,480 into their product line, eventually, 1054 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,720 the products that have the packages that have RFID 1055 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:23,850 are not only going to go towards Walmart. 1056 00:53:23,850 --> 00:53:25,320 But also, there are other buyers, 1057 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,740 there are other clients. 1058 00:53:26,740 --> 00:53:29,130 So perhaps other retailers, because they're 1059 00:53:29,130 --> 00:53:30,990 receiving packages that have RFID, 1060 00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:33,390 will simply be putting readers and antennas 1061 00:53:33,390 --> 00:53:37,437 in order to benefit from the chip that's already there. 1062 00:53:37,437 --> 00:53:38,520 Do you see this happening? 1063 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,770 And if that's the case, how can Walmart keep 1064 00:53:40,770 --> 00:53:42,790 their competitive advantage? 1065 00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:46,020 SIMON LANGFORD: I would say that's a good thing. 1066 00:53:46,020 --> 00:53:50,280 To date, their product is product flowing here in the US. 1067 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,510 That is flowing to us as part of a manufacturer's tagging 1068 00:53:54,510 --> 00:53:58,600 initiative that is flowing to other retailers. 1069 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,340 Whether they choose to use it and take advantage, 1070 00:54:01,340 --> 00:54:03,270 that's up to that individual retailer. 1071 00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:06,720 But we talk about adoption, and one of the questions earlier 1072 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:09,330 was about competitive advantage, and sharing and not 1073 00:54:09,330 --> 00:54:10,740 sharing information. 1074 00:54:10,740 --> 00:54:13,620 And we're all about adoption and driving adoption, 1075 00:54:13,620 --> 00:54:14,970 and sharing that information. 1076 00:54:14,970 --> 00:54:17,630 How you choose to use that data internally, 1077 00:54:17,630 --> 00:54:19,380 that's up to individual companies, then? 1078 00:54:19,380 --> 00:54:21,480 That's where you get your competitive advantage. 1079 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,900 But in terms of broad scale adoption 1080 00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:27,900 and receiving product and distributing product, then 1081 00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:28,710 they're the givens. 1082 00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:30,293 It's then how you use that intelligent 1083 00:54:30,293 --> 00:54:31,880 within your own four walls. 1084 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:32,880 MARK ROBERTI: Thank you. 1085 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,890 OK, we got time for one more question, 1086 00:54:34,890 --> 00:54:36,360 then we're going to wrap it up. 1087 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,410 AUDIENCE: This is about the security of RFID 1088 00:54:38,410 --> 00:54:39,710 before the point of sale. 1089 00:54:39,710 --> 00:54:44,280 Do you think it's a concern for suppliers, manufacturers, 1090 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,360 and retailers that, if the track that you ship your products 1091 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,850 are scanned by malicious reader-- 1092 00:54:50,850 --> 00:54:54,420 say by a [INAUDIBLE] or a competitor, 1093 00:54:54,420 --> 00:54:55,950 is there really a concern? 1094 00:54:55,950 --> 00:55:02,350 Or if it is, what can be done to solve this problem? 1095 00:55:02,350 --> 00:55:06,210 SIMON LANGFORD: I think one of the discussions in the HLS 1096 00:55:06,210 --> 00:55:12,240 working group is around security and encryption of data. 1097 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:16,260 In the general throes of things, in terms of privacy, 1098 00:55:16,260 --> 00:55:18,690 then somebody standing outside the store, 1099 00:55:18,690 --> 00:55:21,840 trying to read product and determine 1100 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,595 what a person is carrying, then obviously, that's not viable. 1101 00:55:25,595 --> 00:55:26,970 It's just a number, and it'd have 1102 00:55:26,970 --> 00:55:29,400 to have the database to go along with that 1103 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:30,850 to tell what that consumer has. 1104 00:55:30,850 --> 00:55:35,250 But in terms of within the supply chain, 1105 00:55:35,250 --> 00:55:40,050 then we're looking at how we secure that merchandise 1106 00:55:40,050 --> 00:55:44,260 and encrypt those tags so it can handle properly. 1107 00:55:44,260 --> 00:55:46,570 MICHAEL ROSE: Yeah, so I think Simon is right on. 1108 00:55:46,570 --> 00:55:50,760 I'd look at it and say, well, we want to use the technology 1109 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,198 to secure the supply chain. 1110 00:55:52,198 --> 00:55:54,740 But at the same time, if we put it on there, it could be red. 1111 00:55:54,740 --> 00:55:57,290 So there, it may be more easily identified. 1112 00:55:57,290 --> 00:55:59,940 So there has to be some sort of mechanism of which we 1113 00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:03,090 can either allow people to read it, 1114 00:56:03,090 --> 00:56:05,010 but then don't get the information about what 1115 00:56:05,010 --> 00:56:09,150 that product is, or there's some sort of encryption mechanism. 1116 00:56:09,150 --> 00:56:12,912 So we're working for a way of how to sort this through. 1117 00:56:12,912 --> 00:56:15,120 It's been identified in the Healthcare & Life Science 1118 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,580 Business Action Group as an area where 1119 00:56:17,580 --> 00:56:22,610 some companies have expressed some concern around this. 1120 00:56:22,610 --> 00:56:25,260 The reality, though-- if you look at the technology today 1121 00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:27,360 as it exists, if you're trying to read it 1122 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,420 through the back of a truck, if the truck door is shut, 1123 00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:32,100 it'd be hard. 1124 00:56:32,100 --> 00:56:33,570 But I think that's our experience. 1125 00:56:33,570 --> 00:56:39,210 I mean-- but on the other hand, we do have to be vigilant, 1126 00:56:39,210 --> 00:56:41,490 and making sure that we just don't, through 1127 00:56:41,490 --> 00:56:43,440 the enabling of new technology, open up 1128 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,570 a whole other area of weakness. 1129 00:56:46,570 --> 00:56:50,205 So that that's a very hot topic of discussion right now. 1130 00:56:50,205 --> 00:56:51,580 AUDIENCE: Just a quick follow up, 1131 00:56:51,580 --> 00:56:55,080 do you think the current gen 2 [INAUDIBLE] 1132 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,860 pack is ready to be deployed broadly in the supply chain 1133 00:56:58,860 --> 00:57:02,720 before the answer for my previous question is answered? 1134 00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:06,420 I mean, is for sure the-- 1135 00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:10,830 the security problem can be surely solved, 1136 00:57:10,830 --> 00:57:14,610 do you think the gen 2 class tag be broadly deployed? 1137 00:57:14,610 --> 00:57:15,285 Is it a concern? 1138 00:57:18,669 --> 00:57:20,770 SIMON LANGFORD: There are some security features 1139 00:57:20,770 --> 00:57:22,120 built into gen 2. 1140 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:29,950 Whether they're robust enough to satisfy some of the concerns 1141 00:57:29,950 --> 00:57:33,190 that Mike referred to [INAUDIBLE] 1142 00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:34,720 from the requirement. 1143 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,190 MICHAEL ROSE: I would say that it's 1144 00:57:36,190 --> 00:57:39,130 a step forward with those security features built in. 1145 00:57:39,130 --> 00:57:44,410 But I think we're looking at gen 2 also for other reasons-- 1146 00:57:44,410 --> 00:57:45,970 not just for security purposes. 1147 00:57:45,970 --> 00:57:47,620 If anything, I think we're all hoping-- 1148 00:57:47,620 --> 00:57:49,000 and I think our tests are showing 1149 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,900 that we're getting some benefits of improved read rates 1150 00:57:52,900 --> 00:57:53,680 and readability. 1151 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,990 So again, with any new technology, 1152 00:57:58,990 --> 00:58:02,930 it opens up a new potential area that needs to be secured. 1153 00:58:02,930 --> 00:58:06,370 So we need to be vigilant about that through our business 1154 00:58:06,370 --> 00:58:06,937 practices. 1155 00:58:06,937 --> 00:58:09,520 We just can't always look to the technology providing security 1156 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:10,330 as well. 1157 00:58:10,330 --> 00:58:11,425 You have to look at the business practices, 1158 00:58:11,425 --> 00:58:13,000 the way the products are handled. 1159 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,583 There's a whole host of issues that are wrapped around it, not 1160 00:58:15,583 --> 00:58:18,025 just the technical issues. 1161 00:58:18,025 --> 00:58:19,960 MARK ROBERTI: OK, that's all we have time for. 1162 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,130 Ladies and gentlemen, please join me 1163 00:58:21,130 --> 00:58:22,660 in thanking our distinguished panel. 1164 00:58:22,660 --> 00:58:26,620 [APPLAUSE] 1165 00:58:26,620 --> 00:58:29,430 And I'd like to hand it back to Steve for some closing remarks. 1166 00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:32,760 STEVE MILES: Well, [INAUDIBLE] thank you everyone, all of you, 1167 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,030 very much for coming. 1168 00:58:34,030 --> 00:58:35,490 There's some cabs out front. 1169 00:58:35,490 --> 00:58:38,220 I know people have to rush off to the airport. 1170 00:58:38,220 --> 00:58:43,260 Just a reminder-- everyone is invited to the May 1 next RFID 1171 00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:44,550 academic convocation. 1172 00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:46,170 We'll want to open this up. 1173 00:58:46,170 --> 00:58:52,200 We've initiated sessions on the model of the discussions that 1174 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,630 have happened over the last two days 1175 00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:56,740 on the Auto-ID Lab's website. 1176 00:58:56,740 --> 00:59:01,230 Feel free to share that with your colleagues. 1177 00:59:01,230 --> 00:59:02,760 We're opening this up beyond just 1178 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,835 this immediate academic group to vendors as well, 1179 00:59:05,835 --> 00:59:07,710 and looking for opportunities to collaborate. 1180 00:59:07,710 --> 00:59:10,250 Thank you all very much for coming.