WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.570 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.570 --> 00:00:02.370 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided 00:00:02.370 --> 00:00:06.330 align:middle line:84% by MIT OpenCourseWare under a Creative Commons license. 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:08.430 align:middle line:84% Additional information about our license 00:00:08.430 --> 00:00:10.800 align:middle line:84% and MIT OpenCourseWare in general 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.730 align:middle line:90% is available at ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:12.730 --> 00:00:15.630 align:middle line:90% 00:00:15.630 --> 00:00:19.500 align:middle line:84% JON GRUDEN: Dr. Joel Moses, who is 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:28.880 align:middle line:84% going to give us a talk that will clarify and get us 00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:32.010 align:middle line:84% to think deeply about the nature of engineering 00:00:32.010 --> 00:00:34.210 align:middle line:90% as a learning discipline. 00:00:34.210 --> 00:00:37.030 align:middle line:84% I think he'll talk less about engineering 00:00:37.030 --> 00:00:42.070 align:middle line:84% as a professional society, which is what a lot of people 00:00:42.070 --> 00:00:47.430 align:middle line:84% talk about when they talk engineering or as a profession. 00:00:47.430 --> 00:00:50.070 align:middle line:84% And I think he's going to talk less about it 00:00:50.070 --> 00:00:56.335 align:middle line:90% as a practice of work. 00:00:56.335 --> 00:00:58.030 align:middle line:84% In other words, sociology of work. 00:00:58.030 --> 00:01:01.680 align:middle line:84% We're not going to talk a whole lot about what engineers 00:01:01.680 --> 00:01:02.900 align:middle line:90% do when they go on the job. 00:01:02.900 --> 00:01:06.402 align:middle line:84% We're going to talk about what we call a learning 00:01:06.402 --> 00:01:07.570 align:middle line:90% discipline [INAUDIBLE]. 00:01:07.570 --> 00:01:10.342 align:middle line:84% Incidentally, that's the focus about this. 00:01:10.342 --> 00:01:13.639 align:middle line:90% So we got a lot to follow up on. 00:01:13.639 --> 00:01:16.940 align:middle line:90% There's different points. 00:01:16.940 --> 00:01:20.410 align:middle line:84% And as I said, I'm teaching this course, Engineering Ethics, 00:01:20.410 --> 00:01:23.370 align:middle line:84% as an engagement of two learning disciplines, engineering 00:01:23.370 --> 00:01:24.330 align:middle line:90% and ethics. 00:01:24.330 --> 00:01:25.830 align:middle line:84% So I got a little bit on the ethics, 00:01:25.830 --> 00:01:28.035 align:middle line:84% and I'm putting lot more on the engineering, 00:01:28.035 --> 00:01:31.030 align:middle line:84% and we'll cover other [? things. ?] 00:01:31.030 --> 00:01:36.160 align:middle line:84% So with that, I think you're ready. 00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:36.910 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Right. 00:01:36.910 --> 00:01:37.545 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: OK. 00:01:37.545 --> 00:01:38.170 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: OK. 00:01:38.170 --> 00:01:42.280 align:middle line:84% So the emphasis here is going to be a philosophy of engineering 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:43.210 align:middle line:90% as opposed to ethics. 00:01:43.210 --> 00:01:45.530 align:middle line:90% Ethics can be drawn from that. 00:01:45.530 --> 00:01:48.700 align:middle line:84% So how would you classify engineering again? 00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:49.820 align:middle line:90% Metaphysics. 00:01:49.820 --> 00:01:51.370 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: Metaphysics-- 00:01:51.370 --> 00:01:51.820 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Epistemology. 00:01:51.820 --> 00:01:52.660 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: Epistemology. 00:01:52.660 --> 00:01:53.285 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: OK. 00:01:53.285 --> 00:01:55.750 align:middle line:84% This is really more about metaphysics and epistemology 00:01:55.750 --> 00:01:56.800 align:middle line:90% than it is about ethics. 00:01:56.800 --> 00:02:02.320 align:middle line:90% 00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:06.160 align:middle line:84% So I won't have too many references because this is-- 00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:09.910 align:middle line:84% I didn't spend my life trying to remember 00:02:09.910 --> 00:02:11.080 align:middle line:90% everybody who said what. 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:13.960 align:middle line:90% But this is my belief. 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:17.620 align:middle line:84% I think there's a lot of truth to what I have to say. 00:02:17.620 --> 00:02:20.290 align:middle line:84% OK, so here we're going to ask a question, 00:02:20.290 --> 00:02:23.740 align:middle line:84% how do different countries think about engineering? 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:25.960 align:middle line:90% Attitudes. 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.930 align:middle line:84% Germany and Japan have relatively positive attitudes 00:02:28.930 --> 00:02:30.310 align:middle line:90% on engineering. 00:02:30.310 --> 00:02:32.500 align:middle line:90% Britain, much less positive. 00:02:32.500 --> 00:02:36.760 align:middle line:84% And in Britain, an engineer is someone who runs-- 00:02:36.760 --> 00:02:37.945 align:middle line:90% who operates engines. 00:02:37.945 --> 00:02:40.660 align:middle line:90% 00:02:40.660 --> 00:02:44.890 align:middle line:84% In France, contrast, the word "ingenieur" 00:02:44.890 --> 00:02:47.770 align:middle line:84% is very similar to the word for "ingenious," 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:49.180 align:middle line:90% ingenieur or something. 00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:51.310 align:middle line:84% I can't pronounce it necessarily very well. 00:02:51.310 --> 00:02:54.640 align:middle line:84% Much more positive attitude toward engineering 00:02:54.640 --> 00:02:55.390 align:middle line:90% than in Britain. 00:02:55.390 --> 00:02:59.020 align:middle line:84% Where do we get most of our ideas from? 00:02:59.020 --> 00:03:00.880 align:middle line:90% Britain. 00:03:00.880 --> 00:03:04.100 align:middle line:84% But nevertheless, there is a clear difference in the US. 00:03:04.100 --> 00:03:04.600 align:middle line:90% No, no. 00:03:04.600 --> 00:03:07.540 align:middle line:84% I'd like the lights on, if you don't mind. 00:03:07.540 --> 00:03:10.960 align:middle line:84% There's a clear difference in US with Britain 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.760 align:middle line:84% we're not quite as positive than it is in Japan, 00:03:13.760 --> 00:03:15.580 align:middle line:84% but not as negative as in Britain. 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:18.430 align:middle line:90% Somewhere in the middle. 00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:20.830 align:middle line:84% So what's our claim-- our thesis? 00:03:20.830 --> 00:03:22.900 align:middle line:84% National cultural values, especially 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:26.225 align:middle line:84% the dominant philosophies in a particular country 00:03:26.225 --> 00:03:28.600 align:middle line:84% has a great deal to do with these difference in attitudes 00:03:28.600 --> 00:03:29.920 align:middle line:90% toward engineering. 00:03:29.920 --> 00:03:33.040 align:middle line:90% That's one belief that I have. 00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:35.410 align:middle line:84% Also another belief-- a general belief 00:03:35.410 --> 00:03:38.650 align:middle line:90% is, there's no right answer. 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:42.160 align:middle line:84% Everything depends on context, there's a context change. 00:03:42.160 --> 00:03:46.340 align:middle line:84% Cultures change slowly but they do change. 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:50.350 align:middle line:84% And so for example, if you compare American attitudes 00:03:50.350 --> 00:03:55.180 align:middle line:84% toward manufacturing in the '60s and then in the '80s 00:03:55.180 --> 00:03:57.580 align:middle line:84% and then in this decade, there are a lot of differences 00:03:57.580 --> 00:03:59.570 align:middle line:90% because the competitive issues. 00:03:59.570 --> 00:04:03.385 align:middle line:84% So it's not a static situation at all. 00:04:03.385 --> 00:04:09.860 align:middle line:90% 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:17.110 align:middle line:84% So continuing to a discussion of these cultural attitudes. 00:04:17.110 --> 00:04:21.670 align:middle line:84% Yeah, compare engineering to medicine, law, and business-- 00:04:21.670 --> 00:04:23.800 align:middle line:90% MBA type education. 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:26.920 align:middle line:90% 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:29.630 align:middle line:84% The kids that come to MIT have been 00:04:29.630 --> 00:04:34.100 align:middle line:84% viewed as not entirely, but largely lower 00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:36.140 align:middle line:84% middle class or maybe middle class 00:04:36.140 --> 00:04:40.310 align:middle line:84% people who are aspiring to move up in the economic chain. 00:04:40.310 --> 00:04:44.000 align:middle line:84% Now let's say they have moved up in the economic chain. 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.360 align:middle line:84% Do they want their kids to go into engineering? 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:49.850 align:middle line:84% Do mommies and daddies want their-- what do they want? 00:04:49.850 --> 00:04:53.170 align:middle line:90% They want them to become-- 00:04:53.170 --> 00:04:56.330 align:middle line:90% and maybe MBAs, right? 00:04:56.330 --> 00:04:59.510 align:middle line:84% Now that's not true in every country. 00:04:59.510 --> 00:05:02.630 align:middle line:84% In Japan, the engineers are more highly valued than lawyers, 00:05:02.630 --> 00:05:05.510 align:middle line:90% I would dare say. 00:05:05.510 --> 00:05:07.700 align:middle line:90% In India too. 00:05:07.700 --> 00:05:09.590 align:middle line:84% In the US, parents want their children become 00:05:09.590 --> 00:05:12.060 align:middle line:90% doctors, lawyers and MBA. 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:14.030 align:middle line:84% If you want more women and minorities 00:05:14.030 --> 00:05:16.985 align:middle line:84% to enter engineering, you can concentrate 00:05:16.985 --> 00:05:18.860 align:middle line:84% on getting women minorities into engineering. 00:05:18.860 --> 00:05:21.470 align:middle line:84% But will also pay to improve the general attitude 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:22.400 align:middle line:90% toward engineering. 00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:25.340 align:middle line:90% 00:05:25.340 --> 00:05:27.800 align:middle line:84% It's not bad, but it's not as good 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:30.150 align:middle line:90% as it is in other countries. 00:05:30.150 --> 00:05:31.700 align:middle line:90% Now you can go too far. 00:05:31.700 --> 00:05:35.840 align:middle line:84% In Germany, if you are a professor, doctor, 00:05:35.840 --> 00:05:37.878 align:middle line:84% you go into a company in the United States, 00:05:37.878 --> 00:05:39.170 align:middle line:90% they'll say, what does he know? 00:05:39.170 --> 00:05:40.970 align:middle line:90% He's an academic, et cetera. 00:05:40.970 --> 00:05:42.920 align:middle line:84% In Germany, they'll say, yes, sir. 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:43.730 align:middle line:90% Absolutely. 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:44.330 align:middle line:90% Yes, sir. 00:05:44.330 --> 00:05:46.070 align:middle line:90% We do what you say. 00:05:46.070 --> 00:05:48.170 align:middle line:90% You can go too far. 00:05:48.170 --> 00:05:52.280 align:middle line:84% But in another aspect where problems show up 00:05:52.280 --> 00:05:54.380 align:middle line:90% is in Britain or in England. 00:05:54.380 --> 00:05:57.740 align:middle line:84% The lords-- if you are aristocracy, well, 00:05:57.740 --> 00:06:00.050 align:middle line:84% if you have a big company, you need an aristocrat 00:06:00.050 --> 00:06:00.897 align:middle line:90% to become the CEO. 00:06:00.897 --> 00:06:02.480 align:middle line:84% What do they know about that business? 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:03.590 align:middle line:90% Not lots. 00:06:03.590 --> 00:06:04.940 align:middle line:90% But they are aristocrats. 00:06:04.940 --> 00:06:08.000 align:middle line:84% By golly, they deserve to be CEOs. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.530 align:middle line:84% That's not necessarily the best thing. 00:06:10.530 --> 00:06:13.760 align:middle line:84% So you have problems in Britain in technology. 00:06:13.760 --> 00:06:17.630 align:middle line:90% 00:06:17.630 --> 00:06:19.560 align:middle line:84% Now let me switch gears a little bit. 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.600 align:middle line:84% And this is getting closer to my real interest. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:28.600 align:middle line:84% Who are the two greatest philosophers in antiquity? 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:29.990 align:middle line:90% It's Plato and Aristotle. 00:06:29.990 --> 00:06:31.940 align:middle line:84% Well, I could have said Moses and Aristotle, 00:06:31.940 --> 00:06:36.220 align:middle line:84% but that requires another lecture. 00:06:36.220 --> 00:06:36.830 align:middle line:90% A quote. 00:06:36.830 --> 00:06:41.580 align:middle line:90% 00:06:41.580 --> 00:06:44.055 align:middle line:84% Plato is Moses writing in attic Greek. 00:06:44.055 --> 00:06:48.980 align:middle line:90% 00:06:48.980 --> 00:06:54.840 align:middle line:84% I didn't make that one up, but that's a side discussion. 00:06:54.840 --> 00:06:57.155 align:middle line:84% So the two greatest philosophers in antiquity 00:06:57.155 --> 00:06:59.450 align:middle line:90% are Plato and Aristotle. 00:06:59.450 --> 00:07:01.670 align:middle line:90% We're talking about 380 BCE. 00:07:01.670 --> 00:07:03.500 align:middle line:90% Aristotle was Plato's student. 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:05.510 align:middle line:90% Makes life interesting. 00:07:05.510 --> 00:07:08.390 align:middle line:84% Have a very different attitude on math, science, problem 00:07:08.390 --> 00:07:10.220 align:middle line:90% solving, design, organization. 00:07:10.220 --> 00:07:13.220 align:middle line:84% And these differences between Plato and Aristotle 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:18.800 align:middle line:84% show up in the next 2,400 years again and again and again. 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:21.080 align:middle line:84% It's as if somehow or other these 00:07:21.080 --> 00:07:25.760 align:middle line:84% are the two poles of ways of thinking deeply 00:07:25.760 --> 00:07:30.640 align:middle line:90% about a lot of important issues. 00:07:30.640 --> 00:07:34.040 align:middle line:84% Aristotle was interested in science. 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:37.700 align:middle line:84% If you look at what is he known for in biology? 00:07:37.700 --> 00:07:43.330 align:middle line:84% Does anybody-- the classification 00:07:43.330 --> 00:07:48.250 align:middle line:84% of things and the species, et cetera, families. 00:07:48.250 --> 00:07:51.230 align:middle line:90% Oh, he was a born classifier. 00:07:51.230 --> 00:07:52.930 align:middle line:90% Now how did he get-- 00:07:52.930 --> 00:07:59.850 align:middle line:84% he got money to send people out throughout the Greek islands 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:02.850 align:middle line:84% and to get him all the various kinds of flowers, 00:08:02.850 --> 00:08:06.390 align:middle line:84% plants, different kinds of animals and what have you 00:08:06.390 --> 00:08:08.040 align:middle line:90% so he could classify it all. 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:10.470 align:middle line:84% Where did he get the money to send all these people out? 00:08:10.470 --> 00:08:11.730 align:middle line:90% He had a student-- 00:08:11.730 --> 00:08:14.340 align:middle line:90% famous student, Aristotle did. 00:08:14.340 --> 00:08:16.180 align:middle line:90% Who was his student? 00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:17.430 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Alexander the Great. 00:08:17.430 --> 00:08:18.000 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: You got it. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:18.990 align:middle line:90% Alexander the Great. 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:21.870 align:middle line:84% You know how much money he got out of Alexander the Great? 00:08:21.870 --> 00:08:24.500 align:middle line:90% 30 talents of gold. 00:08:24.500 --> 00:08:29.280 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I know, multimillion dollars, 30 talents of gold 00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:33.400 align:middle line:84% that he spent to do this research. 00:08:33.400 --> 00:08:34.360 align:middle line:90% And what did he do? 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:36.850 align:middle line:84% He came up with structures for classifying. 00:08:36.850 --> 00:08:44.148 align:middle line:90% 00:08:44.148 --> 00:08:46.440 align:middle line:84% What do we call this-- what do I call these structures? 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:47.815 align:middle line:84% These are called tree structures. 00:08:47.815 --> 00:08:54.910 align:middle line:90% 00:08:54.910 --> 00:08:58.880 align:middle line:84% So in his biology work, he creates this classification 00:08:58.880 --> 00:08:59.380 align:middle line:90% structure. 00:08:59.380 --> 00:09:00.310 align:middle line:90% We still use it. 00:09:00.310 --> 00:09:04.280 align:middle line:90% 00:09:04.280 --> 00:09:07.880 align:middle line:84% But it turns out that everything he did-- 00:09:07.880 --> 00:09:08.870 align:middle line:90% his mode of thought-- 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:11.670 align:middle line:84% everything turned out to have this kind of a diagram. 00:09:11.670 --> 00:09:16.670 align:middle line:84% So let's look at the world according to Aristotle. 00:09:16.670 --> 00:09:19.250 align:middle line:90% Tip of the world is God. 00:09:19.250 --> 00:09:20.810 align:middle line:90% But there is no God. 00:09:20.810 --> 00:09:24.790 align:middle line:84% This is called the unmoved mover. 00:09:24.790 --> 00:09:26.050 align:middle line:90% Ring a bell? 00:09:26.050 --> 00:09:30.070 align:middle line:84% Everything in the world is somewhere in the tree. 00:09:30.070 --> 00:09:33.160 align:middle line:90% 00:09:33.160 --> 00:09:37.150 align:middle line:84% You take a snapshot, you know where everything is. 00:09:37.150 --> 00:09:41.560 align:middle line:84% Advance one second, things move, but they're still 00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:43.000 align:middle line:90% in a tree structure. 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:45.960 align:middle line:84% Maybe it's slightly different one, but it's a tree structure. 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.970 align:middle line:84% Little problem with this Aristotelian physics. 00:09:48.970 --> 00:09:55.510 align:middle line:84% He cannot express the notion which is Newton's law, 00:09:55.510 --> 00:09:58.300 align:middle line:84% an object in motion remains in motion unless there's a force 00:09:58.300 --> 00:09:59.380 align:middle line:90% applied. 00:09:59.380 --> 00:10:03.100 align:middle line:84% The concept of motion doesn't exist because all 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:05.620 align:middle line:90% what you have are snapshots. 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:07.990 align:middle line:90% So a thing is always somewhere. 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:10.470 align:middle line:90% It ain't moving. 00:10:10.470 --> 00:10:12.780 align:middle line:84% Now you take another snapshot, it's somewhere else. 00:10:12.780 --> 00:10:16.440 align:middle line:84% There was something happen, we don't talk about that. 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.570 align:middle line:84% But nevertheless, the point I'm trying to make 00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:22.200 align:middle line:84% is, in back of Aristotle's mind is this notion. 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:25.040 align:middle line:90% And it explains everything. 00:10:25.040 --> 00:10:27.200 align:middle line:90% Aristotelian logic. 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:28.490 align:middle line:90% You got it. 00:10:28.490 --> 00:10:31.190 align:middle line:84% My guess is, Aristotelian ethics will have this character. 00:10:31.190 --> 00:10:32.960 align:middle line:90% I haven't studied that. 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:34.730 align:middle line:84% My guess is, Aristotelian, I think, 00:10:34.730 --> 00:10:39.180 align:middle line:84% has that character because that's how I Aristotle thought. 00:10:39.180 --> 00:10:42.000 align:middle line:84% Everything breaks down, decomposes. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.680 align:middle line:90% Those things get decomposed. 00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:46.380 align:middle line:84% Things get into finer and finer detail. 00:10:46.380 --> 00:10:47.850 align:middle line:90% Empiricism rules. 00:10:47.850 --> 00:10:48.720 align:middle line:90% Details matter. 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.670 align:middle line:90% 00:10:52.670 --> 00:10:54.470 align:middle line:90% Top-down tree structures. 00:10:54.470 --> 00:11:00.140 align:middle line:84% He's a reductionist par excellence, loves science. 00:11:00.140 --> 00:11:03.265 align:middle line:90% Plato, very different. 00:11:03.265 --> 00:11:05.880 align:middle line:90% 00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:10.280 align:middle line:84% He's not a scientist, he's a mathematician. 00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:12.963 align:middle line:84% Plato describes himself as a geometer. 00:11:12.963 --> 00:11:14.630 align:middle line:84% Actually proved the theorem in geometry. 00:11:14.630 --> 00:11:17.170 align:middle line:90% 00:11:17.170 --> 00:11:20.820 align:middle line:90% He is an idealist. 00:11:20.820 --> 00:11:22.030 align:middle line:90% Ideal forms. 00:11:22.030 --> 00:11:26.790 align:middle line:84% Remember how many different kinds of perfect bodies 00:11:26.790 --> 00:11:27.840 align:middle line:90% there are? 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.810 align:middle line:90% Things that are ideal. 00:11:30.810 --> 00:11:33.030 align:middle line:90% Abstract thinker. 00:11:33.030 --> 00:11:33.660 align:middle line:90% Details? 00:11:33.660 --> 00:11:35.250 align:middle line:90% Nah. 00:11:35.250 --> 00:11:37.680 align:middle line:90% Abstract thinking. 00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:40.365 align:middle line:84% What kind of structure does he have in back of his mind? 00:11:40.365 --> 00:11:46.800 align:middle line:90% 00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:49.125 align:middle line:84% These kinds of pyramids are called layered systems. 00:11:49.125 --> 00:11:54.240 align:middle line:90% 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:59.070 align:middle line:84% So what's Plato's most famous book? 00:11:59.070 --> 00:12:01.170 align:middle line:90% The Republic. 00:12:01.170 --> 00:12:04.380 align:middle line:90% Here is society in The Republic. 00:12:04.380 --> 00:12:08.246 align:middle line:90% At the tip of the society is a-- 00:12:08.246 --> 00:12:10.080 align:middle line:90% you remember? 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:11.263 align:middle line:90% Philosopher king. 00:12:11.263 --> 00:12:11.805 align:middle line:90% That's right. 00:12:11.805 --> 00:12:17.100 align:middle line:90% 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:20.100 align:middle line:84% That this level of people who work together-- they're 00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:21.210 align:middle line:90% not individualistic. 00:12:21.210 --> 00:12:23.640 align:middle line:84% This is highly individualistically oriented. 00:12:23.640 --> 00:12:26.100 align:middle line:84% I'm not saying Aristotle was as individualistic 00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:28.570 align:middle line:90% as people became later. 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:31.320 align:middle line:84% But that lends itself to individualism. 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.350 align:middle line:90% These people are together. 00:12:34.350 --> 00:12:37.740 align:middle line:90% This is communism before Marx. 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:41.360 align:middle line:90% These are called the guardians. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.690 align:middle line:84% And they are the top layer of this society-- 00:12:44.690 --> 00:12:48.110 align:middle line:90% the perfect society. 00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:50.990 align:middle line:90% And also called the gold layer. 00:12:50.990 --> 00:12:54.410 align:middle line:84% And therefore, this is silver and this is bronze. 00:12:54.410 --> 00:12:58.520 align:middle line:84% And people here wind up in this level 00:12:58.520 --> 00:13:04.350 align:middle line:84% because they couldn't pass certain educational levels. 00:13:04.350 --> 00:13:07.370 align:middle line:84% And they wind up in here because intermediate educational 00:13:07.370 --> 00:13:11.150 align:middle line:84% level-- the smartest people, the ones who pass all the tests, 00:13:11.150 --> 00:13:12.480 align:middle line:90% they wind up in here. 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.660 align:middle line:84% And the absolute smartest person at any given time 00:13:14.660 --> 00:13:17.430 align:middle line:90% is the philosopher king. 00:13:17.430 --> 00:13:21.960 align:middle line:84% And the key is here, these guys are absolutely worked together. 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.660 align:middle line:84% It's only a theorist like Plato could 00:13:24.660 --> 00:13:27.750 align:middle line:84% make an unbelievable mistake about society, 00:13:27.750 --> 00:13:29.370 align:middle line:90% which is what he did. 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:33.300 align:middle line:84% In order to be sure that these guardians who 00:13:33.300 --> 00:13:39.600 align:middle line:84% determine who passes a test won't give their own children 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:42.510 align:middle line:84% an unfair advantage, he wanted to be 00:13:42.510 --> 00:13:45.240 align:middle line:84% sure they didn't know who their own children were. 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:49.450 align:middle line:84% Therefore, all the women in here are at large. 00:13:49.450 --> 00:13:53.760 align:middle line:84% No one gets married to a particular person 00:13:53.760 --> 00:13:55.860 align:middle line:84% because then they'd know who was the father. 00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:58.770 align:middle line:90% 00:13:58.770 --> 00:14:02.640 align:middle line:84% Only a theorist could make this mistake. 00:14:02.640 --> 00:14:04.330 align:middle line:84% There's nothing perfect about this. 00:14:04.330 --> 00:14:08.340 align:middle line:84% It's just an entirely different way of thinking-- abstraction, 00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:11.820 align:middle line:90% reductionism. 00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:16.710 align:middle line:84% Plato was a member of the Greek aristocracy. 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:20.160 align:middle line:84% Of course, his party fell out of favor, 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:23.920 align:middle line:90% and he got pretty pissed off. 00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:26.500 align:middle line:90% Maybe you can cut that out. 00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:30.960 align:middle line:84% He got quite unhappy at the killing of Socrates 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.280 align:middle line:84% at the fact that his party lost, et cetera, with the Athenians. 00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:42.600 align:middle line:84% And he tried to create an ideal society insistently, 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:43.950 align:middle line:90% but that didn't work. 00:14:43.950 --> 00:14:46.680 align:middle line:84% But in any case, it's an entirely different way 00:14:46.680 --> 00:14:49.440 align:middle line:90% of thinking is my claim. 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.660 align:middle line:90% There isn't anything right. 00:14:52.660 --> 00:14:55.390 align:middle line:84% And engineering-- let's go back to engineering-- 00:14:55.390 --> 00:14:58.180 align:middle line:84% needs both science and mathematics. 00:14:58.180 --> 00:15:01.300 align:middle line:84% And my claim is mathematics is a different-- is ideal, 00:15:01.300 --> 00:15:02.980 align:middle line:90% science is empirical. 00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:06.310 align:middle line:84% You need both the abstract capability from science 00:15:06.310 --> 00:15:11.050 align:middle line:84% and the reductionist worldview of mathematics. 00:15:11.050 --> 00:15:14.020 align:middle line:84% And if you have a society that is highly empirical, 00:15:14.020 --> 00:15:16.390 align:middle line:84% like the British emphasizing science, 00:15:16.390 --> 00:15:18.100 align:middle line:84% you may not get good engineering. 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:21.160 align:middle line:84% If you have a society it's too heavily abstract-- 00:15:21.160 --> 00:15:23.020 align:middle line:90% that's unlikely-- 00:15:23.020 --> 00:15:24.560 align:middle line:84% then you probably also won't work. 00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:26.710 align:middle line:84% I can't think of an example like that quite. 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:31.240 align:middle line:84% But a society that has both working for it, 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:36.120 align:middle line:84% like the Germans or the Japanese, then engineering 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:37.080 align:middle line:90% will flourish. 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:38.055 align:middle line:90% That's my argument. 00:15:38.055 --> 00:15:43.050 align:middle line:90% 00:15:43.050 --> 00:15:46.330 align:middle line:90% Here is a structure. 00:15:46.330 --> 00:15:50.050 align:middle line:84% I claim that when Americans talk about hierarchies, 00:15:50.050 --> 00:15:54.100 align:middle line:84% they usually think this way, almost entirely. 00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:55.420 align:middle line:90% But this is also a hierarchy. 00:15:55.420 --> 00:15:58.000 align:middle line:90% 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.890 align:middle line:84% People here are in some sense higher than people there. 00:16:00.890 --> 00:16:03.790 align:middle line:84% Likewise, people here are higher than that, et cetera. 00:16:03.790 --> 00:16:06.470 align:middle line:84% This philosopher king is the highest of all. 00:16:06.470 --> 00:16:10.390 align:middle line:84% Give me an organization that is modeled like that. 00:16:10.390 --> 00:16:13.360 align:middle line:90% 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:14.738 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: A university. 00:16:14.738 --> 00:16:15.780 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: A university. 00:16:15.780 --> 00:16:18.220 align:middle line:90% Exactly. 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:21.660 align:middle line:90% And this is the-- 00:16:21.660 --> 00:16:23.187 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:16:23.187 --> 00:16:24.020 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Provost. 00:16:24.020 --> 00:16:25.892 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Provost. 00:16:25.892 --> 00:16:26.600 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Yeah. 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:27.760 align:middle line:90% This is the provost. 00:16:27.760 --> 00:16:31.690 align:middle line:84% These are the deans, department heads, faculty. 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:33.760 align:middle line:84% Or maybe these are the full professors, 00:16:33.760 --> 00:16:36.700 align:middle line:84% associate professors, and assistant professor. 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:39.650 align:middle line:84% It's a pure three-layered hierarchy. 00:16:39.650 --> 00:16:42.200 align:middle line:84% And in olden times, all the full professors 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:49.080 align:middle line:84% would get together and make decisions as a body. 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.970 align:middle line:84% What happened in a critical year for University in 1807, 00:16:53.970 --> 00:16:56.970 align:middle line:84% is that there was this character-- 00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:00.330 align:middle line:90% forget his name right now-- 00:17:00.330 --> 00:17:05.099 align:middle line:84% in the hospital in Berlin and he had this notion 00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:09.839 align:middle line:84% that he had to split the surgeons from the-- 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.069 align:middle line:84% who are the guys who checked to see 00:17:13.069 --> 00:17:14.670 align:middle line:90% if the stuff was done right? 00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:15.812 align:middle line:90% The pathologist. 00:17:15.812 --> 00:17:17.520 align:middle line:84% They were constantly fighting each other. 00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:19.145 align:middle line:84% Pathologist saying, you made a mistake. 00:17:19.145 --> 00:17:20.353 align:middle line:90% The surgeon said, no, no, no. 00:17:20.353 --> 00:17:21.119 align:middle line:90% I did perfect. 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.950 align:middle line:90% Don't tell me I made a mistake. 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:25.109 align:middle line:90% So he created departments. 00:17:25.109 --> 00:17:28.590 align:middle line:84% And departments break up the university 00:17:28.590 --> 00:17:31.230 align:middle line:90% and break up this structure. 00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:33.570 align:middle line:90% So this was in Berlin in 1807. 00:17:33.570 --> 00:17:38.100 align:middle line:84% And by 1880, again in the medical school, 00:17:38.100 --> 00:17:41.440 align:middle line:90% this was at Johns Hopkins. 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.440 align:middle line:84% And in 1885, it made it to Harvard. 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:49.660 align:middle line:84% And ever since, we've had it in the United States. 00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:52.510 align:middle line:84% But where did the University get their idea 00:17:52.510 --> 00:17:55.430 align:middle line:90% how to organize things? 00:17:55.430 --> 00:17:58.700 align:middle line:84% You said last time, the original universities 00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:01.240 align:middle line:90% like Bologna and Paris-- 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:05.237 align:middle line:84% especially Paris and Oxford were associated with what? 00:18:05.237 --> 00:18:07.820 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well the way I said it was that they were associated 00:18:07.820 --> 00:18:09.500 align:middle line:90% with the Holy Roman Empire. 00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:10.820 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Holy Roman Empire. 00:18:10.820 --> 00:18:12.110 align:middle line:90% You're getting close. 00:18:12.110 --> 00:18:15.350 align:middle line:90% So where does this come from? 00:18:15.350 --> 00:18:16.790 align:middle line:90% The church. 00:18:16.790 --> 00:18:17.990 align:middle line:90% The Pope. 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:19.130 align:middle line:90% The Cardinals. 00:18:19.130 --> 00:18:19.800 align:middle line:90% The bishops. 00:18:19.800 --> 00:18:20.300 align:middle line:90% The priests. 00:18:20.300 --> 00:18:23.220 align:middle line:90% 00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:28.050 align:middle line:84% Now let me tell you, Moses was the original Platonist. 00:18:28.050 --> 00:18:29.175 align:middle line:90% This shows up in the Bible. 00:18:29.175 --> 00:18:33.447 align:middle line:90% 00:18:33.447 --> 00:18:34.780 align:middle line:90% How did it show up in the Bible? 00:18:34.780 --> 00:18:40.540 align:middle line:90% 00:18:40.540 --> 00:18:42.010 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: As the fathers. 00:18:42.010 --> 00:18:42.760 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Close. 00:18:42.760 --> 00:18:50.780 align:middle line:84% High priests, the kohanim, the priests, the Levis, 00:18:50.780 --> 00:18:51.800 align:middle line:90% the Israelites. 00:18:51.800 --> 00:18:54.390 align:middle line:90% 00:18:54.390 --> 00:18:56.015 align:middle line:84% You want to talk about neural networks? 00:18:56.015 --> 00:19:00.410 align:middle line:90% 00:19:00.410 --> 00:19:04.220 align:middle line:84% It ain't quite like that, but you're getting close. 00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:06.890 align:middle line:90% So we see examples. 00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:12.750 align:middle line:84% In the West, Plato and his mode of thought 00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:19.550 align:middle line:90% was dominant until about 1,300. 00:19:19.550 --> 00:19:21.470 align:middle line:90% And what happened? 00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:27.320 align:middle line:84% What happened was starting-- let me guess, around 1150, 00:19:27.320 --> 00:19:30.110 align:middle line:90% people rediscovered Aristotle. 00:19:30.110 --> 00:19:31.580 align:middle line:90% His writings were lost. 00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:34.520 align:middle line:90% 00:19:34.520 --> 00:19:40.690 align:middle line:84% And the rediscovery started with the Arabs. 00:19:40.690 --> 00:19:45.190 align:middle line:84% They had access to Aristotle's writings from the Middle East. 00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:51.220 align:middle line:84% And it went through people like Maimonides. 00:19:51.220 --> 00:19:54.730 align:middle line:84% And then finally, it went through St. Thomas Aquinas 00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:56.830 align:middle line:90% around 1250, let me guess. 00:19:56.830 --> 00:20:02.980 align:middle line:84% And by 1250, St. Thomas then redefined Catholicism 00:20:02.980 --> 00:20:09.240 align:middle line:84% to be more in line with Aristotelian logical, 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.540 align:middle line:84% rational, somewhat more individualistic-- 00:20:12.540 --> 00:20:15.090 align:middle line:90% 00:20:15.090 --> 00:20:16.220 align:middle line:90% not so much science based. 00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:17.970 align:middle line:84% I don't think it's St. Thomas really cared 00:20:17.970 --> 00:20:19.320 align:middle line:90% much for the science. 00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:23.160 align:middle line:84% But that whole development beginning 1250 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:28.560 align:middle line:84% led, eventually, to the Renaissance to a science mode 00:20:28.560 --> 00:20:31.200 align:middle line:84% emphasis, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.350 align:middle line:84% And that's why the name of the rows that we 00:20:34.350 --> 00:20:37.920 align:middle line:84% were talking about last time are such an interesting book. 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.880 align:middle line:84% Because it was written for about this time when 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.930 align:middle line:84% the transition from Platonic thought or Neoplatonic thought 00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:48.450 align:middle line:84% of the church to Aristotelian thought 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:52.470 align:middle line:84% could be influenced one way or the other. 00:20:52.470 --> 00:20:55.500 align:middle line:84% And that's why the murders occurred 00:20:55.500 --> 00:21:00.180 align:middle line:84% when people read Aristotle's logic, which book had 00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:02.790 align:middle line:84% a tremendous influence on the way people 00:21:02.790 --> 00:21:05.700 align:middle line:84% were thinking in the Renaissance and beyond. 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:09.463 align:middle line:90% 00:21:09.463 --> 00:21:10.380 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:12.338 align:middle line:84% This is going to be an assignment [INAUDIBLE].. 00:21:12.338 --> 00:21:15.300 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: OK, there he is. 00:21:15.300 --> 00:21:20.670 align:middle line:84% Sean Connery is the guy who figures out who killed and why. 00:21:20.670 --> 00:21:24.620 align:middle line:90% 00:21:24.620 --> 00:21:26.240 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: And he was roughly-- 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.170 align:middle line:84% brings a conflation of several characters 00:21:28.170 --> 00:21:30.462 align:middle line:84% who are roughly William [INAUDIBLE],, wouldn't you say? 00:21:30.462 --> 00:21:30.805 align:middle line:90% 00:21:30.805 --> 00:21:32.930 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: I don't if he was William [INAUDIBLE],, 00:21:32.930 --> 00:21:37.850 align:middle line:84% but the author obviously made it up. 00:21:37.850 --> 00:21:39.260 align:middle line:90% But he had a point. 00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:40.910 align:middle line:90% And I think that's the point. 00:21:40.910 --> 00:21:43.970 align:middle line:84% That here is a tremendous sea change 00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:46.730 align:middle line:84% in Western thinking from a Neoplatonic-- 00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:48.760 align:middle line:90% I'm not saying Plato is right. 00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:49.730 align:middle line:90% It's different. 00:21:49.730 --> 00:21:51.890 align:middle line:84% And it has advantage in some cases, disadvantage 00:21:51.890 --> 00:21:53.030 align:middle line:90% in other cases. 00:21:53.030 --> 00:21:58.540 align:middle line:84% A tremendous sea change going on in mode of thought. 00:21:58.540 --> 00:22:01.040 align:middle line:84% So this guy was trying to hold back and say, no, no, no, no. 00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:02.900 align:middle line:90% Let's keep the order. 00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:08.860 align:middle line:90% 00:22:08.860 --> 00:22:12.310 align:middle line:84% In a sense, this slide coming up, 00:22:12.310 --> 00:22:15.078 align:middle line:84% Catholic Church historically influenced by Neoplatonic. 00:22:15.078 --> 00:22:16.870 align:middle line:84% Organizational hierarchies largely layered. 00:22:16.870 --> 00:22:20.470 align:middle line:84% Pope, college of Cardinal, synods of bishops. 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:22.810 align:middle line:84% Aristotle's closer to Protestant. 00:22:22.810 --> 00:22:25.500 align:middle line:90% 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:31.430 align:middle line:84% And Protestantism is closer to science, et cetera. 00:22:31.430 --> 00:22:33.470 align:middle line:84% It's more network oriented as supposed 00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:34.850 align:middle line:90% to centralize hierarchies. 00:22:34.850 --> 00:22:39.650 align:middle line:84% Lends itself to more network distributed things. 00:22:39.650 --> 00:22:41.360 align:middle line:90% And that's the final comment. 00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:42.590 align:middle line:90% Be careful, dear student. 00:22:42.590 --> 00:22:44.090 align:middle line:90% Not all hierarchies are alike. 00:22:44.090 --> 00:22:48.170 align:middle line:84% Americans think all hierarchies are like this. 00:22:48.170 --> 00:22:50.630 align:middle line:84% But here is an example, this is hierarchical 00:22:50.630 --> 00:22:52.230 align:middle line:90% in a different way. 00:22:52.230 --> 00:22:54.680 align:middle line:84% And it has advantages and disadvantages. 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.050 align:middle line:84% I would claim-- I don't if I do it in the slides-- 00:22:57.050 --> 00:22:59.480 align:middle line:84% that Japanese organizations are more like this 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:00.560 align:middle line:90% than they are like that. 00:23:00.560 --> 00:23:03.500 align:middle line:84% Internally, locally, they are tree structured. 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:07.850 align:middle line:84% But there is a way of looking at the structure of the firm which 00:23:07.850 --> 00:23:11.980 align:middle line:90% has this character as well. 00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:16.510 align:middle line:84% Because Japan does have that set of approaches. 00:23:16.510 --> 00:23:19.880 align:middle line:90% 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:24.240 align:middle line:84% So philosophy and religion intimately connected, 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.453 align:middle line:84% intimately connected to ways of thinking. 00:23:28.453 --> 00:23:29.870 align:middle line:84% Engineering is going to flourish-- 00:23:29.870 --> 00:23:32.740 align:middle line:84% I said this before-- in nations that have both a holistic, as 00:23:32.740 --> 00:23:34.000 align:middle line:90% well as reductionistic model. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.740 align:middle line:84% So Plato is the ultimate holistic thinker, but also 00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:39.340 align:middle line:90% rational. 00:23:39.340 --> 00:23:42.250 align:middle line:84% So in contrast to mysticism, which 00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:46.180 align:middle line:84% tends to be holistic and not necessarily rational, 00:23:46.180 --> 00:23:48.080 align:middle line:90% Plato is rational. 00:23:48.080 --> 00:23:51.820 align:middle line:84% But he also tends to think holistically. 00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:54.500 align:middle line:90% So these guys all work together. 00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:55.810 align:middle line:90% It's the whole. 00:23:55.810 --> 00:23:59.733 align:middle line:84% We are trying to improve this society. 00:23:59.733 --> 00:24:00.900 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I have a question. 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:01.608 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Sure. 00:24:01.608 --> 00:24:04.190 align:middle line:90% 00:24:04.190 --> 00:24:07.312 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The Platonic model over there. 00:24:07.312 --> 00:24:08.020 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Yeah. 00:24:08.020 --> 00:24:11.333 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: When we talk about the university. 00:24:11.333 --> 00:24:13.250 align:middle line:84% Let's talk about the university, but this time 00:24:13.250 --> 00:24:16.480 align:middle line:84% is talking about it in terms of curriculum. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.840 align:middle line:84% And let's talk about how we organize the curriculum. 00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:23.720 align:middle line:84% Now let's talk about two kinds of curriculum. 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:28.920 align:middle line:84% General education and special education. 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.660 align:middle line:84% It's just occurred to me that maybe we 00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:33.280 align:middle line:84% could think of general education in the Platonic model, 00:24:33.280 --> 00:24:33.780 align:middle line:90% because-- 00:24:33.780 --> 00:24:35.210 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: That's the way it was. 00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:36.810 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --at each level, everybody 00:24:36.810 --> 00:24:38.958 align:middle line:84% knows a little bit of something about it. 00:24:38.958 --> 00:24:40.500 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: But that's exactly right. 00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:43.470 align:middle line:84% When you think of Middle Ages, the university 00:24:43.470 --> 00:24:47.880 align:middle line:84% taught either quadrillion or the four things, the rhetoric 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:49.710 align:middle line:90% and geometry. 00:24:49.710 --> 00:24:52.080 align:middle line:84% And everybody was learning the same thing. 00:24:52.080 --> 00:24:53.280 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:24:53.280 --> 00:24:56.570 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: The specialization starts occurring 00:24:56.570 --> 00:24:59.560 align:middle line:90% with the medical schools. 00:24:59.560 --> 00:25:03.340 align:middle line:84% The medical system said, we need you to understand anatomy. 00:25:03.340 --> 00:25:07.150 align:middle line:84% It isn't one of the four things that everybody is taught. 00:25:07.150 --> 00:25:10.720 align:middle line:84% So the medical schools force the issue on specialization. 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:14.090 align:middle line:84% And they force the issue on department structure. 00:25:14.090 --> 00:25:17.960 align:middle line:84% There was no department structure in the Middle Ages. 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:19.280 align:middle line:90% All the professors were-- 00:25:19.280 --> 00:25:21.080 align:middle line:90% full professors were alike. 00:25:21.080 --> 00:25:23.270 align:middle line:84% And they would teach their courses all right. 00:25:23.270 --> 00:25:26.420 align:middle line:84% But they'd get together for lunch or whatever. 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.160 align:middle line:90% We work together. 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:31.460 align:middle line:90% We're in it together. 00:25:31.460 --> 00:25:34.040 align:middle line:84% Oh, now, they would make money by asking 00:25:34.040 --> 00:25:37.460 align:middle line:84% the students to pay tuition if they attend their classes. 00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:41.150 align:middle line:84% But it seems like the departmental structure really 00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:46.010 align:middle line:84% made it an absolute sea change in the nature of the research 00:25:46.010 --> 00:25:46.880 align:middle line:90% university. 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.020 align:middle line:90% 00:25:51.020 --> 00:25:53.660 align:middle line:84% So how does Germany get to have this holistic and 00:25:53.660 --> 00:25:56.150 align:middle line:90% reductionistic thing? 00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:59.540 align:middle line:84% Partly because Germany is Catholic in the South, 00:25:59.540 --> 00:26:00.830 align:middle line:90% Protestant in the North. 00:26:00.830 --> 00:26:04.640 align:middle line:84% And they have melded the two views. 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:08.030 align:middle line:84% I'm not saying Catholicism is super Platonic, 00:26:08.030 --> 00:26:12.020 align:middle line:84% it's more Platonic than it is not. 00:26:12.020 --> 00:26:14.840 align:middle line:90% They've melded these views. 00:26:14.840 --> 00:26:17.840 align:middle line:84% And you could argue, well, people say, how did Nazism 00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:22.160 align:middle line:84% succeed when the Germans are so highly educated 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:23.910 align:middle line:84% and this, that, and the other thing? 00:26:23.910 --> 00:26:25.970 align:middle line:84% And the answer is Hitler beat them up 00:26:25.970 --> 00:26:28.550 align:middle line:84% and he tried to break the melding. 00:26:28.550 --> 00:26:35.150 align:middle line:84% He tried to get the Southern point of view become dominant 00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:37.130 align:middle line:90% over the northern view. 00:26:37.130 --> 00:26:40.460 align:middle line:84% Rather than melding, break the melding. 00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:44.040 align:middle line:84% And he took a while, but he succeeded. 00:26:44.040 --> 00:26:46.610 align:middle line:84% And so the Germans behaved in ways 00:26:46.610 --> 00:26:49.780 align:middle line:84% that were surprising to people who knew them. 00:26:49.780 --> 00:26:52.240 align:middle line:84% The Japanese have three dominant religions 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.980 align:middle line:84% and have the most flexible culture 00:26:56.980 --> 00:26:59.650 align:middle line:84% in terms of attitudes toward reductionism holism. 00:26:59.650 --> 00:27:04.060 align:middle line:90% They could switch on a dime. 00:27:04.060 --> 00:27:05.120 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: On this point. 00:27:05.120 --> 00:27:06.665 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Yeah. 00:27:06.665 --> 00:27:09.040 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: You have to say something special about Germany 00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:10.984 align:middle line:84% when it comes to the university, the research they 00:27:10.984 --> 00:27:11.700 align:middle line:90% do in Germany. 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:12.367 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Yes. 00:27:12.367 --> 00:27:15.120 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Because everybody else was talking about handing down 00:27:15.120 --> 00:27:17.370 align:middle line:90% traditional knowledge. 00:27:17.370 --> 00:27:21.150 align:middle line:84% I mean, nobody was adding to Aristotle. 00:27:21.150 --> 00:27:22.980 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: No, that changed. 00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:23.880 align:middle line:90% Indeed. 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:27.960 align:middle line:84% So what the first wave, say between St. Thomas 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:32.490 align:middle line:84% and say 1550-1600, the first wave, 00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:37.860 align:middle line:84% they viewed the Greeks whom they rediscovered as God. 00:27:37.860 --> 00:27:40.900 align:middle line:90% I mean what they said went. 00:27:40.900 --> 00:27:42.910 align:middle line:90% So let me give you an example. 00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:45.990 align:middle line:84% I may have the numbers wrong but the idea is just right. 00:27:45.990 --> 00:27:47.820 align:middle line:90% So when Aristotle said-- 00:27:47.820 --> 00:27:50.485 align:middle line:84% and Aristotle, remember, was somebody who'd 00:27:50.485 --> 00:27:51.735 align:middle line:90% gathered a lot of information. 00:27:51.735 --> 00:27:53.475 align:middle line:84% And he had these 30 talents of gold 00:27:53.475 --> 00:27:55.140 align:middle line:84% that allowed them to do these things. 00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:58.530 align:middle line:84% When Aristotle said that a fly had eight legs, 00:27:58.530 --> 00:28:02.250 align:middle line:90% no one bothered to check. 00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:04.200 align:middle line:90% Well, the flies have six legs. 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:06.090 align:middle line:84% Oh, maybe he said six and they have eight. 00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:08.010 align:middle line:84% But whatever it was, they got it wrong. 00:28:08.010 --> 00:28:12.020 align:middle line:84% No one checked because Aristotle said so. 00:28:12.020 --> 00:28:15.170 align:middle line:84% In medicine for hundreds of thousands years, 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:17.420 align:middle line:90% Galen's book on medicine-- 00:28:17.420 --> 00:28:19.570 align:middle line:84% Galen said, I tell you what to do. 00:28:19.570 --> 00:28:23.990 align:middle line:84% You take the blood out, you give them these root extracts. 00:28:23.990 --> 00:28:25.430 align:middle line:90% None of which works. 00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:28.100 align:middle line:84% But Galen said, I know what I'm doing. 00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:31.580 align:middle line:84% And he wrote at that time period through the Middle Ages, 00:28:31.580 --> 00:28:32.850 align:middle line:90% that's what they did. 00:28:32.850 --> 00:28:36.250 align:middle line:90% No one bothered to check. 00:28:36.250 --> 00:28:40.120 align:middle line:84% Science begins slowly but surely around, 00:28:40.120 --> 00:28:42.610 align:middle line:90% let's say, 1600 suddenly. 00:28:42.610 --> 00:28:44.145 align:middle line:90% And they are doing experiments. 00:28:44.145 --> 00:28:46.270 align:middle line:84% In the Middle Ages, they weren't doing experiments. 00:28:46.270 --> 00:28:49.480 align:middle line:84% They were buying Aristotle's line. 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:54.400 align:middle line:84% The philosopher was telling you to do this, it is. 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:57.680 align:middle line:84% It's only later that they actually changed. 00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:59.920 align:middle line:84% But the fact is that they Aristotle was 00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:04.390 align:middle line:84% a necessary bridge between the Neoplatonic thought 00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:09.430 align:middle line:84% of the Dark Ages and the first Millennium, say, after Christ. 00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:15.145 align:middle line:84% And it was a necessary bridge to allow the science to develop. 00:29:15.145 --> 00:29:21.630 align:middle line:90% 00:29:21.630 --> 00:29:23.730 align:middle line:84% So Germany and Japan have a positive attitude 00:29:23.730 --> 00:29:24.840 align:middle line:90% toward engineering. 00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:30.300 align:middle line:84% And in the 1980s, when we were losing in the car manufacturing 00:29:30.300 --> 00:29:33.300 align:middle line:84% to the Germans and the Japanese, especially Japanese, 00:29:33.300 --> 00:29:35.370 align:middle line:84% we were really trying to figure out why is it 00:29:35.370 --> 00:29:36.690 align:middle line:90% that they were doing so well. 00:29:36.690 --> 00:29:40.560 align:middle line:84% And again, I would say it's a little bit of this issue coming 00:29:40.560 --> 00:29:41.370 align:middle line:90% up. 00:29:41.370 --> 00:29:45.930 align:middle line:84% That is here, we were highly individualistic, weren't 00:29:45.930 --> 00:29:47.470 align:middle line:90% working as teams as well. 00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:49.930 align:middle line:84% We learned the Japanese worked in teams. 00:29:49.930 --> 00:29:52.830 align:middle line:84% And so we picked up on some of these things in the early '90s. 00:29:52.830 --> 00:29:55.320 align:middle line:84% Teamwork, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. 00:29:55.320 --> 00:29:57.750 align:middle line:84% Did we really understand how the Japanese work? 00:29:57.750 --> 00:29:59.010 align:middle line:90% No. 00:29:59.010 --> 00:30:01.830 align:middle line:90% But we made a fair progress. 00:30:01.830 --> 00:30:04.797 align:middle line:84% I mean, all cars nowadays, based on teamwork 00:30:04.797 --> 00:30:06.630 align:middle line:84% and a number of other things we've picked up 00:30:06.630 --> 00:30:08.940 align:middle line:84% from the Japanese, really are better 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:10.530 align:middle line:90% than they were otherwise. 00:30:10.530 --> 00:30:14.100 align:middle line:84% Now it turns out the Japanese didn't stop improving 00:30:14.100 --> 00:30:16.950 align:middle line:90% and we didn't realize that. 00:30:16.950 --> 00:30:18.740 align:middle line:84% So what's happening in the automobile 00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:20.490 align:middle line:84% industry in the United States is that they 00:30:20.490 --> 00:30:24.240 align:middle line:84% have taken their understanding of the Toyota process, 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.190 align:middle line:90% as it's called. 00:30:26.190 --> 00:30:28.807 align:middle line:84% The lean manufacturing is another term for it. 00:30:28.807 --> 00:30:30.390 align:middle line:84% That they've taken their understanding 00:30:30.390 --> 00:30:32.820 align:middle line:84% and they've made it into a religion. 00:30:32.820 --> 00:30:34.860 align:middle line:90% You do this, you do that. 00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:36.360 align:middle line:90% Reduce waste. 00:30:36.360 --> 00:30:37.800 align:middle line:90% You do just in time. 00:30:37.800 --> 00:30:40.050 align:middle line:90% You do this, you do that. 00:30:40.050 --> 00:30:42.220 align:middle line:84% The Japanese-- the Toyota people have figured out, 00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:45.060 align:middle line:84% hey, you know, that doesn't work as well as we should. 00:30:45.060 --> 00:30:50.040 align:middle line:84% For example, it used to be that the Toyota 00:30:50.040 --> 00:30:54.850 align:middle line:84% people had this line where you basically put the car together. 00:30:54.850 --> 00:31:00.360 align:middle line:84% And the idea was that things move without stopping. 00:31:00.360 --> 00:31:04.800 align:middle line:84% Now if anybody screwed up, your job as somebody on the line 00:31:04.800 --> 00:31:07.500 align:middle line:84% it's to pull the cord, stop the line, 00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:10.050 align:middle line:84% fix the thing at its source-- not at the end when 00:31:10.050 --> 00:31:11.200 align:middle line:90% it's hard to fix. 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.150 align:middle line:84% Fix it at its source, and then continue. 00:31:15.150 --> 00:31:18.240 align:middle line:84% Well, these lines were very long and they had maybe 50 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.770 align:middle line:90% different people on the line. 00:31:19.770 --> 00:31:23.430 align:middle line:84% And these poor Japanese who noticed an error, 00:31:23.430 --> 00:31:24.480 align:middle line:90% they were afraid. 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:25.560 align:middle line:90% Oh, my God. 00:31:25.560 --> 00:31:28.620 align:middle line:90% We stopped this 50 person line. 00:31:28.620 --> 00:31:30.140 align:middle line:90% Maybe I shouldn't. 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:31.600 align:middle line:90% Oh, I'm scared. 00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:32.730 align:middle line:90% I'm not going to do it. 00:31:32.730 --> 00:31:35.580 align:middle line:90% So they figured this out. 00:31:35.580 --> 00:31:39.840 align:middle line:84% They said, hey, we can't have a 50-person line moving 00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:44.280 align:middle line:84% without having everything just in time. 00:31:44.280 --> 00:31:47.590 align:middle line:84% No stacking up of anything, blah, blah, blah. 00:31:47.590 --> 00:31:50.220 align:middle line:84% And if we really want to fix the error at its source, 00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:53.910 align:middle line:84% we're going to have to break it up into lines of maybe 10. 00:31:53.910 --> 00:31:57.540 align:middle line:84% Now psychologically, you're more likely to pull the cord 00:31:57.540 --> 00:31:59.550 align:middle line:90% when you should, et cetera. 00:31:59.550 --> 00:32:01.140 align:middle line:84% Did the Americans understand this? 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:01.710 align:middle line:90% No. 00:32:01.710 --> 00:32:05.220 align:middle line:90% Because they had the rules. 00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:07.230 align:middle line:84% They're following the rules of 1988. 00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:09.870 align:middle line:84% And by 1998, they were falling behinder and behinder. 00:32:09.870 --> 00:32:13.520 align:middle line:90% 00:32:13.520 --> 00:32:15.560 align:middle line:84% We learned from the Japanese, but not enough. 00:32:15.560 --> 00:32:22.180 align:middle line:90% 00:32:22.180 --> 00:32:25.600 align:middle line:84% Now of all the major manufacturing countries 00:32:25.600 --> 00:32:30.260 align:middle line:84% in the world, England had the most problem. 00:32:30.260 --> 00:32:34.360 align:middle line:84% So not only is it largely a Protestant country, 00:32:34.360 --> 00:32:35.455 align:middle line:90% so it means-- 00:32:35.455 --> 00:32:37.390 align:middle line:84% there's nothing wrong with that, obviously. 00:32:37.390 --> 00:32:40.480 align:middle line:84% But it means that you are more likely to be here, 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:43.030 align:middle line:84% everything is more individualistic, 00:32:43.030 --> 00:32:44.920 align:middle line:90% reductionistic, science based. 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:47.590 align:middle line:84% Not so much engineering because you have 00:32:47.590 --> 00:32:49.990 align:middle line:90% both of these things going on. 00:32:49.990 --> 00:32:52.930 align:middle line:84% In addition to which, they still have this remnant 00:32:52.930 --> 00:32:57.250 align:middle line:84% of the hierarchy from the Middle Ages because of aristocracy. 00:32:57.250 --> 00:32:59.350 align:middle line:84% So they don't have the mode of thought, 00:32:59.350 --> 00:33:03.950 align:middle line:90% but they have this thing-- 00:33:03.950 --> 00:33:05.450 align:middle line:90% really problematic. 00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:09.220 align:middle line:84% And so what happened in the automobile industry in England? 00:33:09.220 --> 00:33:11.880 align:middle line:90% It got bought out. 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:13.140 align:middle line:90% I mean Ford owns-- 00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:16.395 align:middle line:90% 00:33:16.395 --> 00:33:17.970 align:middle line:90% they own Jaguar. 00:33:17.970 --> 00:33:22.800 align:middle line:84% The Germans own Land Rover or something. 00:33:22.800 --> 00:33:24.990 align:middle line:84% Mercedes owns one of the companies. 00:33:24.990 --> 00:33:26.868 align:middle line:84% So basically, there's nothing left. 00:33:26.868 --> 00:33:28.410 align:middle line:84% I mean, they just lost out completely 00:33:28.410 --> 00:33:29.400 align:middle line:90% on the automobile part. 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:33.510 align:middle line:90% 00:33:33.510 --> 00:33:37.260 align:middle line:84% So they have just as many smart people, tinkerers people 00:33:37.260 --> 00:33:38.850 align:middle line:90% come up with ideas. 00:33:38.850 --> 00:33:41.280 align:middle line:84% But when it comes down to a sizable business, 00:33:41.280 --> 00:33:44.700 align:middle line:84% then you run into this issue of, we better get a lord in there. 00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:47.740 align:middle line:84% And it doesn't necessarily work very well. 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:50.880 align:middle line:84% So obviously, they do very well in certain issues 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.680 align:middle line:84% like insurance and variety of other kinds of things. 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:56.010 align:middle line:84% But when it comes down to things that 00:33:56.010 --> 00:34:00.660 align:middle line:84% require depth of engineering and large scale, 00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:02.550 align:middle line:90% they have really done poorly. 00:34:02.550 --> 00:34:08.540 align:middle line:90% 00:34:08.540 --> 00:34:12.850 align:middle line:84% So the US gets much of its philosophy, at least, 00:34:12.850 --> 00:34:14.590 align:middle line:90% from Britain. 00:34:14.590 --> 00:34:18.040 align:middle line:84% So to some degree, engineering is not as highly valued 00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:20.710 align:middle line:90% as doctor, lawyer, MBA. 00:34:20.710 --> 00:34:22.659 align:middle line:84% But we do better than the British 00:34:22.659 --> 00:34:25.179 align:middle line:84% because we don't have a class structure mentality. 00:34:25.179 --> 00:34:28.540 align:middle line:84% And many of our technological firms 00:34:28.540 --> 00:34:30.040 align:middle line:84% are run by their founders, at least, 00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:32.800 align:middle line:84% initially and others who may have an MBA. 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.510 align:middle line:84% But they appreciate the technology to a large degree, 00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:40.780 align:middle line:90% and so we do better. 00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:42.517 align:middle line:90% Now we do even better? 00:34:42.517 --> 00:34:43.600 align:middle line:90% I think the answer is yes. 00:34:43.600 --> 00:34:45.820 align:middle line:84% But it's not going to be easy to make the transition. 00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:49.389 align:middle line:90% 00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:55.989 align:middle line:90% So I've taken you to here, 1300. 00:34:55.989 --> 00:34:58.630 align:middle line:84% People realized that there was a conflict between those two. 00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:01.770 align:middle line:84% Because Aristotle was rediscovered 00:35:01.770 --> 00:35:06.490 align:middle line:84% and the university professors said, now, wait a minute. 00:35:06.490 --> 00:35:09.440 align:middle line:84% These different modes of thought. 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:11.765 align:middle line:90% So there became a controversy. 00:35:11.765 --> 00:35:23.980 align:middle line:84% It was called the nominalism versus realism controversy. 00:35:23.980 --> 00:35:26.670 align:middle line:90% You ever hear that term? 00:35:26.670 --> 00:35:31.050 align:middle line:84% About somewhere in the 1300s, I would guess. 00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:38.040 align:middle line:84% Now which one of these guys, Plato or Aristotle, 00:35:38.040 --> 00:35:39.555 align:middle line:90% is likely to be the realist? 00:35:39.555 --> 00:35:44.540 align:middle line:90% 00:35:44.540 --> 00:35:45.820 align:middle line:90% A-ha. 00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:47.960 align:middle line:90% Trick question. 00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:49.340 align:middle line:90% It's Plato. 00:35:49.340 --> 00:35:53.080 align:middle line:84% So let me explain what the issue here is. 00:35:53.080 --> 00:35:53.785 align:middle line:90% Lambda calculus. 00:35:53.785 --> 00:35:57.760 align:middle line:90% 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:03.570 align:middle line:84% The meaning of a name in lambda calculus is nothing. 00:36:03.570 --> 00:36:05.370 align:middle line:84% X is an X. It could just as well be 00:36:05.370 --> 00:36:12.270 align:middle line:84% a Y. That's the Aristotelian position in the 14th century, 00:36:12.270 --> 00:36:14.070 align:middle line:90% nominalism. 00:36:14.070 --> 00:36:17.260 align:middle line:90% Names don't mean anything. 00:36:17.260 --> 00:36:20.830 align:middle line:84% Realism says, the name might tell you 00:36:20.830 --> 00:36:27.030 align:middle line:84% something about the person or but the future of this person. 00:36:27.030 --> 00:36:29.460 align:middle line:90% Boy, names mean a lot. 00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:33.420 align:middle line:84% They convey the reality of the situation. 00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:35.580 align:middle line:84% They get at the essence of the person, maybe. 00:36:35.580 --> 00:36:38.990 align:middle line:90% 00:36:38.990 --> 00:36:41.790 align:middle line:90% Plato. 00:36:41.790 --> 00:36:44.040 align:middle line:90% A chair isn't just a chair. 00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:46.650 align:middle line:84% Think of Shakespeare, a rose is a rose by any other name, 00:36:46.650 --> 00:36:48.960 align:middle line:90% nominalist position. 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:55.585 align:middle line:84% A chair is a representative of the ideal chair in heaven. 00:36:55.585 --> 00:36:57.460 align:middle line:84% The fact that it's a chair means that there's 00:36:57.460 --> 00:36:59.410 align:middle line:84% a direct correspondence to the ideal. 00:36:59.410 --> 00:37:00.580 align:middle line:90% This thing is a copy. 00:37:00.580 --> 00:37:03.730 align:middle line:84% It's not as good, but it's a chair. 00:37:03.730 --> 00:37:07.200 align:middle line:90% It has some chairness to it. 00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:10.260 align:middle line:84% So once I learned that the correspondent named chair 00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:13.500 align:middle line:84% to the chairness of a thing that's a chair, 00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:16.050 align:middle line:84% there's reality attached to the name. 00:37:16.050 --> 00:37:18.855 align:middle line:90% 00:37:18.855 --> 00:37:20.730 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't say that Aristotle and Plato would 00:37:20.730 --> 00:37:23.490 align:middle line:90% argue quite this way in 400 BC. 00:37:23.490 --> 00:37:29.220 align:middle line:84% But in 1400 BC, the professors are getting this way 00:37:29.220 --> 00:37:31.260 align:middle line:84% as their descendants, if you will-- 00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:32.790 align:middle line:90% intellectual descendants. 00:37:32.790 --> 00:37:37.050 align:middle line:84% This was a big issue and it shows up in the Bible 00:37:37.050 --> 00:37:39.300 align:middle line:84% when Moses says to God, now, if you're 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.430 align:middle line:84% going to send me down to Pharaoh, what should 00:37:41.430 --> 00:37:43.420 align:middle line:90% I tell him and the Jewish-- 00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:47.040 align:middle line:84% the other Hebrews, what's your name? 00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:49.050 align:middle line:84% And boy, you remember the answer? 00:37:49.050 --> 00:37:51.880 align:middle line:90% What a weird answer. 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.072 align:middle line:90% I am that I am. 00:37:54.072 --> 00:37:56.130 align:middle line:90% Is that a name? 00:37:56.130 --> 00:37:57.110 align:middle line:90% No. 00:37:57.110 --> 00:38:01.330 align:middle line:84% There's somebody who doesn't want to tell you the name 00:38:01.330 --> 00:38:05.050 align:middle line:84% because the name would reveal too much of the essence. 00:38:05.050 --> 00:38:09.110 align:middle line:84% And this is in essence it's indescribable, has no limit. 00:38:09.110 --> 00:38:13.630 align:middle line:84% Therefore, attaching a name to it is too restrictive. 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:16.160 align:middle line:90% 00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:18.490 align:middle line:84% This is a person who believes that name really 00:38:18.490 --> 00:38:22.000 align:middle line:90% represents reality of a kind. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.800 align:middle line:90% Therefore, don't get-- 00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:26.590 align:middle line:90% God, no name. 00:38:26.590 --> 00:38:27.790 align:middle line:90% Be careful with the name. 00:38:27.790 --> 00:38:28.720 align:middle line:90% Be very careful. 00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:33.810 align:middle line:84% It really is circumscribing to much, this notion. 00:38:33.810 --> 00:38:35.960 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That brings to mind, since we 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:37.440 align:middle line:84% can talk about films in this class, 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.616 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you're familiar with this film called Pi. 00:38:40.616 --> 00:38:42.480 align:middle line:90% Yeah? 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:47.390 align:middle line:84% But it's a young mathematician, a genius, 00:38:47.390 --> 00:38:53.040 align:middle line:84% who is trying to figure out some patterns in the number pi 00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:54.432 align:middle line:90% as you take it out. 00:38:54.432 --> 00:38:55.140 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Yeah. 00:38:55.140 --> 00:39:00.535 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] being able to predict 00:39:00.535 --> 00:39:01.410 align:middle line:90% the future within it. 00:39:01.410 --> 00:39:03.810 align:middle line:84% He's being accosted by all of these people 00:39:03.810 --> 00:39:05.740 align:middle line:84% from the stock market and everything. 00:39:05.740 --> 00:39:14.420 align:middle line:84% And he winds up with this rabbi who wants him to tell-- 00:39:14.420 --> 00:39:20.000 align:middle line:84% wants him to say that there's a pattern in pi 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.390 align:middle line:84% after so many numbers, and then it repeats. 00:39:23.390 --> 00:39:25.940 align:middle line:90% And it is the name of God. 00:39:25.940 --> 00:39:29.640 align:middle line:84% Now I never understood that part of the film. 00:39:29.640 --> 00:39:31.640 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: So that brings up a different issue. 00:39:31.640 --> 00:39:33.598 align:middle line:84% I wasn't going to bring it up, but now that you 00:39:33.598 --> 00:39:35.010 align:middle line:90% mentioned this, I'll tell you. 00:39:35.010 --> 00:39:39.670 align:middle line:84% So this is Moses way of thinking. 00:39:39.670 --> 00:39:43.460 align:middle line:84% Abstract, don't bother me with details. 00:39:43.460 --> 00:39:47.200 align:middle line:84% The rabbis actually learned from the Greeks. 00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:49.900 align:middle line:84% You see, Alexander the Great attacks the Middle East 00:39:49.900 --> 00:39:53.080 align:middle line:90% around 322 BC. 00:39:53.080 --> 00:39:54.908 align:middle line:90% So they come after that. 00:39:54.908 --> 00:39:56.200 align:middle line:90% They're affected by the Greeks. 00:39:56.200 --> 00:39:57.880 align:middle line:84% They won't admit it necessarily, but they 00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:58.838 align:middle line:90% effected by the Greeks. 00:39:58.838 --> 00:40:05.320 align:middle line:84% They become ultra empirical, ultra rational, logical. 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.360 align:middle line:84% Not so much individualistic, but they 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.460 align:middle line:84% take on a lot of Aristotelian kind 00:40:09.460 --> 00:40:12.010 align:middle line:90% of way of looking at things. 00:40:12.010 --> 00:40:15.890 align:middle line:84% And become even more so in the case of my Maimonides. 00:40:15.890 --> 00:40:21.010 align:middle line:84% When Aristotle's whose writings were rediscovered by the Arabs, 00:40:21.010 --> 00:40:24.370 align:middle line:84% he spoke Arabic and he learned from them. 00:40:24.370 --> 00:40:29.650 align:middle line:84% And he modified Judaism to become even more 00:40:29.650 --> 00:40:35.740 align:middle line:90% logical, rational, rule based. 00:40:35.740 --> 00:40:36.970 align:middle line:90% He has axioms. 00:40:36.970 --> 00:40:39.670 align:middle line:90% He's got 13 axioms. 00:40:39.670 --> 00:40:41.050 align:middle line:90% It's amazing. 00:40:41.050 --> 00:40:47.960 align:middle line:84% But where do the Jews rediscover Aristotle? 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:50.500 align:middle line:90% Because they have. 00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:53.240 align:middle line:84% And it comes back to what you were saying. 00:40:53.240 --> 00:40:56.550 align:middle line:90% In mysticism, Kabbalah. 00:40:56.550 --> 00:40:59.820 align:middle line:84% What's Kabbalah spend a lot of its time on? 00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:00.765 align:middle line:90% The name of God. 00:41:00.765 --> 00:41:04.040 align:middle line:90% 00:41:04.040 --> 00:41:05.090 align:middle line:90% God is without end. 00:41:05.090 --> 00:41:06.440 align:middle line:90% There's only one God. 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:09.470 align:middle line:84% And boy, if you only knew the name of God, 00:41:09.470 --> 00:41:12.985 align:middle line:84% this would be so powerful a weapon 00:41:12.985 --> 00:41:14.360 align:middle line:84% because you can get all the power 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:15.350 align:middle line:90% of the universe in your hand. 00:41:15.350 --> 00:41:16.767 align:middle line:84% And you've got to be very careful. 00:41:16.767 --> 00:41:18.080 align:middle line:90% You can't do that. 00:41:18.080 --> 00:41:19.790 align:middle line:84% You've got to shy away from that. 00:41:19.790 --> 00:41:22.340 align:middle line:90% 00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:23.820 align:middle line:90% It's one of the key issues. 00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:26.720 align:middle line:84% So to the extent that mysticism, which 00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:30.590 align:middle line:84% exists in every religion on Earth, 00:41:30.590 --> 00:41:33.260 align:middle line:84% is the closest analog we now have in religion, 00:41:33.260 --> 00:41:39.200 align:middle line:84% I would say, to Platonic thought. 00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:43.460 align:middle line:84% Not quite there, but it carries some of the same ideas. 00:41:43.460 --> 00:41:46.090 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Do you think we're trying to get that idea today 00:41:46.090 --> 00:41:48.190 align:middle line:90% in the word icon? 00:41:48.190 --> 00:41:49.780 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: I don't know. 00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:52.430 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Because it's supposed to be that looks 00:41:52.430 --> 00:41:54.530 align:middle line:90% like what it references. 00:41:54.530 --> 00:41:56.030 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: Yeah, but you see, think 00:41:56.030 --> 00:41:58.700 align:middle line:90% of the mosaic commandment. 00:41:58.700 --> 00:42:01.080 align:middle line:90% Do not make a graven image. 00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:03.440 align:middle line:84% So if you want to have God be abstract-- 00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.380 align:middle line:90% and the mystics do. 00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:11.080 align:middle line:84% If you want God be abstract you can't have a real icon. 00:42:11.080 --> 00:42:12.700 align:middle line:90% That goes against abstraction. 00:42:12.700 --> 00:42:14.620 align:middle line:84% And now you've got it down there. 00:42:14.620 --> 00:42:16.720 align:middle line:84% This is what God looks-- no, no, no, no, no. 00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:18.130 align:middle line:90% Can't have that. 00:42:18.130 --> 00:42:19.300 align:middle line:90% Can't have that. 00:42:19.300 --> 00:42:22.210 align:middle line:84% See Moses really was an abstract thinker. 00:42:22.210 --> 00:42:25.990 align:middle line:84% There's one God, no graven image. 00:42:25.990 --> 00:42:28.630 align:middle line:90% Be careful with the name. 00:42:28.630 --> 00:42:30.700 align:middle line:84% Do not take the Lord's name in vain. 00:42:30.700 --> 00:42:34.450 align:middle line:84% I say, that's simpler than what people had in mind. 00:42:34.450 --> 00:42:39.090 align:middle line:84% Don't ever use the Lord's name because then you 00:42:39.090 --> 00:42:47.570 align:middle line:84% are attached to much specificity to this abstract notion. 00:42:47.570 --> 00:42:50.300 align:middle line:90% So to continue the path. 00:42:50.300 --> 00:42:52.880 align:middle line:90% This is 14th century. 00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:01.500 align:middle line:84% In the 18th century, are Hume and Kant. 00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:08.070 align:middle line:84% So let's say this is about 1700 and this is about 1775. 00:43:08.070 --> 00:43:13.080 align:middle line:84% A lot of things happen around 1776, it turns out. 00:43:13.080 --> 00:43:17.100 align:middle line:84% What is Hume saying, among other things? 00:43:17.100 --> 00:43:19.080 align:middle line:90% He's British, Kant's German. 00:43:19.080 --> 00:43:21.330 align:middle line:84% And from now on, the British and the Germans 00:43:21.330 --> 00:43:22.830 align:middle line:84% are going to be fighting each other. 00:43:22.830 --> 00:43:26.770 align:middle line:84% And they're fighting over this set of issues. 00:43:26.770 --> 00:43:30.430 align:middle line:84% Hume says, a baby is born "tabula rasa"-- 00:43:30.430 --> 00:43:32.830 align:middle line:84% I think he got the term from Aristotle-- 00:43:32.830 --> 00:43:35.840 align:middle line:84% which means the baby doesn't know anything, 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:40.650 align:middle line:84% complete clean slate, and everything is learned. 00:43:40.650 --> 00:43:43.190 align:middle line:90% Everything is learned. 00:43:43.190 --> 00:43:47.950 align:middle line:90% The biologist would argue. 00:43:47.950 --> 00:43:51.140 align:middle line:84% Their claim would be, hey, these genes really have an impact. 00:43:51.140 --> 00:43:51.720 align:middle line:90% No, no, no. 00:43:51.720 --> 00:43:55.400 align:middle line:90% For him, a baby, clean slate. 00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:01.100 align:middle line:84% And that's the British view, which emphasizes logic, 00:44:01.100 --> 00:44:03.260 align:middle line:90% rationality of that kind. 00:44:03.260 --> 00:44:08.250 align:middle line:84% Kant comes in, and what's the name of his famous book? 00:44:08.250 --> 00:44:11.120 align:middle line:90% Critique of Pure Reason. 00:44:11.120 --> 00:44:17.160 align:middle line:84% Because Hume is the ultimate pure reason view. 00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:18.660 align:middle line:90% You have axioms. 00:44:18.660 --> 00:44:20.700 align:middle line:90% You have deduction mechanisms. 00:44:20.700 --> 00:44:23.460 align:middle line:84% And everything follows from that. 00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:26.940 align:middle line:90% No, no, no, no, no, Kant says. 00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:31.800 align:middle line:84% Pure reason doesn't explain the world very well, or not enough. 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:37.770 align:middle line:84% And he believes in built in things. 00:44:37.770 --> 00:44:40.680 align:middle line:84% I forget exactly what he calls them. 00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:45.300 align:middle line:90% What is Kantian categories? 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:48.030 align:middle line:90% You have built in categories. 00:44:48.030 --> 00:44:53.070 align:middle line:84% So if you look at cognitive science nowadays 00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:56.670 align:middle line:84% and you ask the question, how does a child 00:44:56.670 --> 00:44:59.460 align:middle line:90% manage to see things? 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:02.940 align:middle line:84% We know that they have built in mechanisms 00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:04.290 align:middle line:90% for seeing certain things. 00:45:04.290 --> 00:45:07.410 align:middle line:84% There's a famous paper written by one of our colleagues 00:45:07.410 --> 00:45:14.068 align:middle line:84% which says, what the fly's eye tells the fly's brain-- 00:45:14.068 --> 00:45:14.860 align:middle line:90% is that what it is? 00:45:14.860 --> 00:45:16.193 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I think that's what it is. 00:45:16.193 --> 00:45:18.760 align:middle line:84% What the fly's eye tell the fly's brain. 00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:21.520 align:middle line:84% And what they did was they would put electrodes 00:45:21.520 --> 00:45:24.370 align:middle line:84% into the fly's brain and they would 00:45:24.370 --> 00:45:26.710 align:middle line:90% see when things would light up. 00:45:26.710 --> 00:45:29.620 align:middle line:84% And they would send images across the field 00:45:29.620 --> 00:45:30.670 align:middle line:90% of view of the fly. 00:45:30.670 --> 00:45:35.350 align:middle line:84% And it turns out that if you had something which 00:45:35.350 --> 00:45:39.220 align:middle line:84% looked like this and it went through the field of view 00:45:39.220 --> 00:45:42.580 align:middle line:84% of the eye and it moved, then certain kinds of things 00:45:42.580 --> 00:45:43.780 align:middle line:90% would light up. 00:45:43.780 --> 00:45:47.740 align:middle line:84% You see, those neurons in the fly's eye I 00:45:47.740 --> 00:45:51.030 align:middle line:84% we're looking for things like that moving. 00:45:51.030 --> 00:45:54.610 align:middle line:90% Because that could be a-- 00:45:54.610 --> 00:45:56.710 align:middle line:84% that could be something that it could eat. 00:45:56.710 --> 00:45:59.200 align:middle line:90% Now is this a fly's eye? 00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:04.000 align:middle line:90% What the-- oh, I'm sorry. 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:04.930 align:middle line:90% It's a frog. 00:46:04.930 --> 00:46:07.120 align:middle line:84% What the frog's I tells the frog's brain. 00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:08.650 align:middle line:90% And what's the frog want to do? 00:46:08.650 --> 00:46:10.900 align:middle line:90% Eat flies. 00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:16.630 align:middle line:84% So you see something moving like that, that's a fly. 00:46:16.630 --> 00:46:19.930 align:middle line:84% So this thing was trained, built in category 00:46:19.930 --> 00:46:22.090 align:middle line:90% to look for that kind of stuff. 00:46:22.090 --> 00:46:25.540 align:middle line:84% And I don't know what we are trained to do, 00:46:25.540 --> 00:46:28.480 align:middle line:84% but the assumption that we have built in categories 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.610 align:middle line:90% has a lot of truth here. 00:46:30.610 --> 00:46:34.270 align:middle line:84% This is a more of a Platonic view-- not purely Platonic, 00:46:34.270 --> 00:46:37.570 align:middle line:84% but more of a Platonic view than an Aristotelian view, 00:46:37.570 --> 00:46:41.510 align:middle line:84% which would say it's really just logic. 00:46:41.510 --> 00:46:43.730 align:middle line:84% It all follows from a few axioms. 00:46:43.730 --> 00:46:45.980 align:middle line:84% And so when you see Lord Russell-- 00:46:45.980 --> 00:46:48.380 align:middle line:84% you may have heard Lord Russell, a famous logician 00:46:48.380 --> 00:46:51.410 align:middle line:84% mathematician in the 20th century 00:46:51.410 --> 00:46:53.570 align:middle line:84% and the Cambridge professor-- say, 00:46:53.570 --> 00:46:55.310 align:middle line:84% I can't understand these Germans. 00:46:55.310 --> 00:46:57.290 align:middle line:84% I mean, Kant, who can understand him? 00:46:57.290 --> 00:46:59.400 align:middle line:84% Of course, other philosophers will say, 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:03.320 align:middle line:84% Kant's the greatest philosopher in the last 200 or 300 years. 00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:07.010 align:middle line:84% But the British, especially, the Cambridge school, just they 00:47:07.010 --> 00:47:08.270 align:middle line:90% don't get it. 00:47:08.270 --> 00:47:09.600 align:middle line:90% They don't understand it. 00:47:09.600 --> 00:47:13.050 align:middle line:84% So this different mode of thought, which is my opinion, 00:47:13.050 --> 00:47:14.930 align:middle line:84% goes way back to Aristotle and Plato. 00:47:14.930 --> 00:47:16.880 align:middle line:84% Different ways of thinking about the world. 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.520 align:middle line:84% Even though Aristotle was Plato's student, 00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:20.720 align:middle line:90% they didn't see eye to eye. 00:47:20.720 --> 00:47:23.880 align:middle line:90% 00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:26.342 align:middle line:84% So what does this have to do with engineering? 00:47:26.342 --> 00:47:35.210 align:middle line:90% 00:47:35.210 --> 00:47:37.740 align:middle line:90% Well, let me go back. 00:47:37.740 --> 00:47:43.970 align:middle line:84% So I think Taft introduced this as being a different way 00:47:43.970 --> 00:47:46.205 align:middle line:90% of looking at engineering. 00:47:46.205 --> 00:47:48.080 align:middle line:84% People who write about engineering philosophy 00:47:48.080 --> 00:47:51.325 align:middle line:84% tend to emphasize what makes engineering unique, 00:47:51.325 --> 00:47:53.450 align:middle line:84% different from science, different from mathematics, 00:47:53.450 --> 00:47:55.930 align:middle line:90% different from social science. 00:47:55.930 --> 00:47:59.300 align:middle line:84% Design, for example, makes engineering unique. 00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:01.850 align:middle line:90% Well, I want to argue. 00:48:01.850 --> 00:48:04.460 align:middle line:84% I think engineering isn't that unique. 00:48:04.460 --> 00:48:09.290 align:middle line:84% Because in a sense, everybody designs in a university. 00:48:09.290 --> 00:48:14.840 align:middle line:84% So let's talk about what they design. 00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:17.640 align:middle line:84% And philosophers care about design issues. 00:48:17.640 --> 00:48:24.320 align:middle line:84% But in a sense, this approach is systems engineering. 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:27.182 align:middle line:84% Take a problem, break it up into pods, keep doing it. 00:48:27.182 --> 00:48:27.890 align:middle line:90% Blah, blah, blah. 00:48:27.890 --> 00:48:32.520 align:middle line:84% All the great American systems engineers think this way. 00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:36.120 align:middle line:84% This approach is maybe more of the way mathematicians 00:48:36.120 --> 00:48:37.200 align:middle line:90% like to solve problems. 00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:39.240 align:middle line:90% Take a problem, abstract it. 00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:41.070 align:middle line:90% Make it even more abstract. 00:48:41.070 --> 00:48:42.630 align:middle line:84% Get it down to something so simple 00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:45.390 align:middle line:84% that you can actually solve the abstract problem. 00:48:45.390 --> 00:48:49.810 align:middle line:84% And now specialized to a particular solution. 00:48:49.810 --> 00:48:54.730 align:middle line:84% Here, get it down to the simplest thing, which 00:48:54.730 --> 00:48:56.650 align:middle line:90% you can solve and back it up. 00:48:56.650 --> 00:49:00.520 align:middle line:84% This one, no, move it up and then down. 00:49:00.520 --> 00:49:01.152 align:middle line:90% No, no. 00:49:01.152 --> 00:49:02.110 align:middle line:90% These guys say, no, no. 00:49:02.110 --> 00:49:04.080 align:middle line:90% Down then up. 00:49:04.080 --> 00:49:06.890 align:middle line:84% Different way of looking at things. 00:49:06.890 --> 00:49:09.260 align:middle line:84% And nobody is absolutely right all the time. 00:49:09.260 --> 00:49:13.060 align:middle line:90% 00:49:13.060 --> 00:49:17.940 align:middle line:84% So let's talk about design, organization, et cetera. 00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:24.380 align:middle line:84% So I claim design is of interest to every field in the universe. 00:49:24.380 --> 00:49:27.470 align:middle line:84% Writers, composers, artists, obviously, architects. 00:49:27.470 --> 00:49:30.200 align:middle line:90% Biologists nowadays. 00:49:30.200 --> 00:49:32.030 align:middle line:84% Maybe physicist not so much though. 00:49:32.030 --> 00:49:32.690 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:49:32.690 --> 00:49:34.355 align:middle line:84% I mean, they could say, look, we're 00:49:34.355 --> 00:49:36.230 align:middle line:84% not trying to figure out the nature of design 00:49:36.230 --> 00:49:38.180 align:middle line:84% because we really only care about one design. 00:49:38.180 --> 00:49:41.510 align:middle line:84% How did God do it in the first place? 00:49:41.510 --> 00:49:45.830 align:middle line:84% So design variation, which is the interesting thing to me, 00:49:45.830 --> 00:49:48.770 align:middle line:84% how do you maintain flexibility in a design 00:49:48.770 --> 00:49:50.180 align:middle line:90% so you can make changes easily? 00:49:50.180 --> 00:49:52.220 align:middle line:90% It's things that's not an issue. 00:49:52.220 --> 00:49:54.080 align:middle line:84% Biologists care about design variation 00:49:54.080 --> 00:49:57.020 align:middle line:84% because development and evolution, things of that sort. 00:49:57.020 --> 00:50:01.250 align:middle line:90% But physicists, less so. 00:50:01.250 --> 00:50:04.760 align:middle line:84% So bottom line, you have to look hard to find a field which 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:08.210 align:middle line:84% isn't interested in design, and therefore, 00:50:08.210 --> 00:50:10.650 align:middle line:84% has some relationship to engineering. 00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:19.470 align:middle line:90% 00:50:19.470 --> 00:50:22.070 align:middle line:84% So the claim is that legacy views-- 00:50:22.070 --> 00:50:24.050 align:middle line:84% and lots there are different legacies. 00:50:24.050 --> 00:50:25.970 align:middle line:90% We, as humans, have a legacy. 00:50:25.970 --> 00:50:30.170 align:middle line:84% We're limited by our ability to solve problems. 00:50:30.170 --> 00:50:34.010 align:middle line:84% The phrase 7 plus or minus 2 ring a bell? 00:50:34.010 --> 00:50:35.390 align:middle line:90% You've heard it, right? 00:50:35.390 --> 00:50:38.270 align:middle line:90% But you haven't and you haven't? 00:50:38.270 --> 00:50:41.430 align:middle line:84% So there was a psychologist here at MIT 50 years ago, 00:50:41.430 --> 00:50:42.920 align:middle line:90% his name was George Miller. 00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.800 align:middle line:84% And he wrote a paper called The Magic Number, 7 Plus or Minus 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:46.910 align:middle line:90% 2. 00:50:46.910 --> 00:50:50.360 align:middle line:84% And The Magic Number, 7 Plus or Minus 2 00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:54.240 align:middle line:84% is based on experiments that he did with people. 00:50:54.240 --> 00:50:56.090 align:middle line:90% Now ring a bell? 00:50:56.090 --> 00:50:58.150 align:middle line:90% And what do you think-- 00:50:58.150 --> 00:51:00.160 align:middle line:84% how many different things you can remember? 00:51:00.160 --> 00:51:01.070 align:middle line:90% It could be numbers. 00:51:01.070 --> 00:51:01.930 align:middle line:90% It could be words. 00:51:01.930 --> 00:51:04.360 align:middle line:84% How many different things you could remember at a time. 00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:07.540 align:middle line:84% And people can go between five and nine, 00:51:07.540 --> 00:51:11.000 align:middle line:84% depending on the individual, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:12.440 align:middle line:90% So here is a legacy-- 00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:16.630 align:middle line:84% a restriction that we inherit as humans, assuming he's 00:51:16.630 --> 00:51:18.220 align:middle line:90% right, of course. 00:51:18.220 --> 00:51:21.170 align:middle line:90% And he seems to be. 00:51:21.170 --> 00:51:23.230 align:middle line:84% But there are other legacies-- other things 00:51:23.230 --> 00:51:25.140 align:middle line:84% that restrict our ability to do things. 00:51:25.140 --> 00:51:28.510 align:middle line:84% One is the country we were born in. 00:51:28.510 --> 00:51:31.540 align:middle line:84% Maybe our religion, certainly our education. 00:51:31.540 --> 00:51:34.690 align:middle line:84% If we're trained as electrical engineers or civil engineers 00:51:34.690 --> 00:51:37.840 align:middle line:84% or mathematicians, that'll have a way of affecting it. 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:41.380 align:middle line:84% I'm certainly affected by having been trained in mathematics 00:51:41.380 --> 00:51:43.150 align:middle line:84% because, remember, this guy isn't 00:51:43.150 --> 00:51:45.100 align:middle line:90% things like a mathematician. 00:51:45.100 --> 00:51:45.910 align:middle line:90% That's a logician. 00:51:45.910 --> 00:51:48.130 align:middle line:84% That's a funny kind of mathematician. 00:51:48.130 --> 00:51:51.070 align:middle line:90% 00:51:51.070 --> 00:51:52.750 align:middle line:84% So let's look at mathematics, which I 00:51:52.750 --> 00:51:54.820 align:middle line:90% a little bit about the history. 00:51:54.820 --> 00:51:58.390 align:middle line:84% Especially in the 19th century, British mathematicians 00:51:58.390 --> 00:52:00.370 align:middle line:84% didn't do well in the 19th century 00:52:00.370 --> 00:52:05.210 align:middle line:84% because there was so in love with Newton. 00:52:05.210 --> 00:52:07.550 align:middle line:84% So what they did was they went into the study 00:52:07.550 --> 00:52:10.080 align:middle line:84% of differentiable equations, special cases, 00:52:10.080 --> 00:52:11.330 align:middle line:90% the differentiable equations. 00:52:11.330 --> 00:52:13.822 align:middle line:84% Even more special cases of solution differentiable 00:52:13.822 --> 00:52:15.530 align:middle line:84% equations, this that and the other thing. 00:52:15.530 --> 00:52:17.780 align:middle line:84% And they got stuck in there and they really 00:52:17.780 --> 00:52:19.070 align:middle line:90% didn't make much progress. 00:52:19.070 --> 00:52:21.530 align:middle line:84% And again, it shows the empirical aspects-- 00:52:21.530 --> 00:52:26.750 align:middle line:84% it's special cases, empiricism are very closely connected. 00:52:26.750 --> 00:52:28.400 align:middle line:84% On the other hand, the Germans, who 00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.280 align:middle line:84% I claim have this more abstract view of things, 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:35.330 align:middle line:84% they made enormous progress certainly 00:52:35.330 --> 00:52:38.870 align:middle line:84% by the mid-19th century in algebra. 00:52:38.870 --> 00:52:42.980 align:middle line:84% Algebraic geometry, algebraic topology, abstract algebra, 00:52:42.980 --> 00:52:44.540 align:middle line:90% blah, blah, blah. 00:52:44.540 --> 00:52:46.890 align:middle line:84% All of which emphasize abstraction, 00:52:46.890 --> 00:52:49.910 align:middle line:84% which is a consistent with their content philosophy. 00:52:49.910 --> 00:52:52.160 align:middle line:84% Which again, is consistent with Platonic way 00:52:52.160 --> 00:52:56.390 align:middle line:84% of looking at things, et cetera, et cetera. 00:52:56.390 --> 00:53:00.490 align:middle line:84% And these guys want out in terms of most of mathematics. 00:53:00.490 --> 00:53:01.360 align:middle line:90% Not all. 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:03.340 align:middle line:84% Certainly, logic-- the kind of stuff 00:53:03.340 --> 00:53:05.020 align:middle line:84% that we study in computer science, logic 00:53:05.020 --> 00:53:07.880 align:middle line:84% and combinatorics is more like this. 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.390 align:middle line:84% But the stuff we don't study in computer science that 00:53:10.390 --> 00:53:14.110 align:middle line:84% is real mathematics, topology, geometry-- 00:53:14.110 --> 00:53:16.270 align:middle line:84% well, we do a little bit of algebraic geometry. 00:53:16.270 --> 00:53:18.520 align:middle line:90% Algebra. 00:53:18.520 --> 00:53:22.420 align:middle line:84% Even analysis tends to be much more abstract, much more based 00:53:22.420 --> 00:53:26.410 align:middle line:90% on these kinds of notions. 00:53:26.410 --> 00:53:29.603 align:middle line:84% So I would say, by the mid 20th century certainly, 00:53:29.603 --> 00:53:31.645 align:middle line:84% most mathematicians followed the German approach. 00:53:31.645 --> 00:53:33.180 align:middle line:84% It doesn't mean the German approach 00:53:33.180 --> 00:53:34.180 align:middle line:90% is right for everything. 00:53:34.180 --> 00:53:37.210 align:middle line:84% I keep saying, there is no right answer. 00:53:37.210 --> 00:53:40.120 align:middle line:84% But let me tell you, you can take this too far. 00:53:40.120 --> 00:53:42.680 align:middle line:90% The French took it too far. 00:53:42.680 --> 00:53:45.290 align:middle line:84% So one of the problems you can run 00:53:45.290 --> 00:53:47.030 align:middle line:84% into if you're going to be abstract 00:53:47.030 --> 00:53:49.580 align:middle line:84% is to say, well, I'm going to make lots and lots and lots 00:53:49.580 --> 00:53:52.220 align:middle line:84% and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of abstractions. 00:53:52.220 --> 00:53:54.860 align:middle line:84% And I had the whole power with 20 00:53:54.860 --> 00:53:57.050 align:middle line:84% different-- actually in software, we see this a lot 00:53:57.050 --> 00:53:57.910 align:middle line:90% now. 00:53:57.910 --> 00:54:00.980 align:middle line:84% If people building in one software layer above a layer, 00:54:00.980 --> 00:54:02.240 align:middle line:90% they go nuts. 00:54:02.240 --> 00:54:05.930 align:middle line:84% The idea is to have relatively few layers that really 00:54:05.930 --> 00:54:08.690 align:middle line:84% add something, rather than lots and layers that 00:54:08.690 --> 00:54:09.620 align:middle line:90% add very little. 00:54:09.620 --> 00:54:12.800 align:middle line:84% And if you're a logician, then you buy into the notion 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:14.520 align:middle line:84% that abstraction is a good thing. 00:54:14.520 --> 00:54:16.670 align:middle line:84% but if you carry it to the extreme, 00:54:16.670 --> 00:54:18.180 align:middle line:84% then you will have so many layers 00:54:18.180 --> 00:54:19.640 align:middle line:90% you just get lost completely. 00:54:19.640 --> 00:54:21.710 align:middle line:90% You don't really say anything. 00:54:21.710 --> 00:54:24.590 align:middle line:84% That's what happened in mid 20th century. 00:54:24.590 --> 00:54:29.490 align:middle line:84% In France, there was a movement called the Bourbaki school. 00:54:29.490 --> 00:54:32.820 align:middle line:84% The Bourbaki was one of Napoleon's generals. 00:54:32.820 --> 00:54:34.480 align:middle line:90% They made up the name. 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:39.090 align:middle line:84% A bunch of mathematicians wrote under the name Bourbaki 00:54:39.090 --> 00:54:42.860 align:middle line:84% And they read did-- they re-approved 00:54:42.860 --> 00:54:44.930 align:middle line:84% a lot of mathematics that was already 00:54:44.930 --> 00:54:48.770 align:middle line:84% known from a fundamental point of view of set theory 00:54:48.770 --> 00:54:49.610 align:middle line:90% and logic. 00:54:49.610 --> 00:54:52.130 align:middle line:84% And this had an effect, for example, 00:54:52.130 --> 00:54:57.790 align:middle line:84% on education k-12 in the '60s and '70s when we did new math. 00:54:57.790 --> 00:55:02.990 align:middle line:84% That was those guys in the American context. 00:55:02.990 --> 00:55:06.610 align:middle line:84% So Bourbaki was going to revolutionize the teaching 00:55:06.610 --> 00:55:09.190 align:middle line:84% and research and mathematics by redoing it 00:55:09.190 --> 00:55:11.300 align:middle line:84% all from a very fundamental point of view. 00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:13.360 align:middle line:84% Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots 00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:14.890 align:middle line:90% of abstractions. 00:55:14.890 --> 00:55:18.220 align:middle line:84% And eventually, people said, this is nuts. 00:55:18.220 --> 00:55:19.880 align:middle line:90% This is absolutely insane. 00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:21.007 align:middle line:90% Get rid of those guys. 00:55:21.007 --> 00:55:22.090 align:middle line:90% And they stopped doing it. 00:55:22.090 --> 00:55:27.940 align:middle line:90% 00:55:27.940 --> 00:55:31.210 align:middle line:84% Don't go crazy over abstractions. 00:55:31.210 --> 00:55:34.510 align:middle line:84% Some are good, too many is too many. 00:55:34.510 --> 00:55:38.040 align:middle line:90% 00:55:38.040 --> 00:55:43.060 align:middle line:84% So back to an issue I discussed already, manufacturing. 00:55:43.060 --> 00:55:48.930 align:middle line:90% 00:55:48.930 --> 00:55:49.950 align:middle line:90% I'll read it with you. 00:55:49.950 --> 00:55:51.870 align:middle line:84% US Manufacturers in the 1980s were 00:55:51.870 --> 00:55:54.120 align:middle line:84% very concerned over the ability of the Japanese 00:55:54.120 --> 00:55:57.000 align:middle line:84% to manufacture cars more cheaply with higher quality 00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.050 align:middle line:90% than the Americans. 00:55:58.050 --> 00:56:00.900 align:middle line:84% The German produced cars with greater performance 00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:01.830 align:middle line:90% than the Americans. 00:56:01.830 --> 00:56:04.890 align:middle line:84% Not necessarily higher quality or cheaper, but better 00:56:04.890 --> 00:56:05.710 align:middle line:90% performance. 00:56:05.710 --> 00:56:10.020 align:middle line:90% And so caught between those two. 00:56:10.020 --> 00:56:13.240 align:middle line:84% Then we started looking at the Toyota process. 00:56:13.240 --> 00:56:14.560 align:middle line:90% And I got to tell you a story. 00:56:14.560 --> 00:56:19.590 align:middle line:84% There was a joint Toyota-GM plant 00:56:19.590 --> 00:56:21.840 align:middle line:90% in California called NUMMI. 00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:25.290 align:middle line:84% I don't know why it was called NUMMI, had some meaning. 00:56:25.290 --> 00:56:28.500 align:middle line:84% And basically, an existing GM plant 00:56:28.500 --> 00:56:32.070 align:middle line:84% took over all the union labor that they had in the plant. 00:56:32.070 --> 00:56:35.400 align:middle line:84% And they retaught them, with Japanese managers, 00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.080 align:middle line:90% how to do things. 00:56:37.080 --> 00:56:39.330 align:middle line:90% And the quality went way up. 00:56:39.330 --> 00:56:41.800 align:middle line:90% The production rate went way up. 00:56:41.800 --> 00:56:44.760 align:middle line:84% And GM sent all their vice presidents to go in there 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:45.570 align:middle line:90% and investigate. 00:56:45.570 --> 00:56:48.450 align:middle line:84% What did these guys do with our plant? 00:56:48.450 --> 00:56:49.578 align:middle line:90% They're working with us. 00:56:49.578 --> 00:56:50.370 align:middle line:90% They did something. 00:56:50.370 --> 00:56:51.630 align:middle line:90% It all works. 00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:57.420 align:middle line:84% And I talked to one guy who had seen the plant six times. 00:56:57.420 --> 00:57:00.060 align:middle line:84% And he said, I don't see anything different. 00:57:00.060 --> 00:57:01.590 align:middle line:90% They do the same thing we do. 00:57:01.590 --> 00:57:02.490 align:middle line:90% What is going on? 00:57:02.490 --> 00:57:04.900 align:middle line:84% I mean, why-- I can't figure this out. 00:57:04.900 --> 00:57:08.700 align:middle line:84% So finally, he admitted-- he said, OK, OK. 00:57:08.700 --> 00:57:10.560 align:middle line:90% Let the guys who run the plant-- 00:57:10.560 --> 00:57:16.670 align:middle line:84% the Japanese guy-- give me a three-hour lecture as to what 00:57:16.670 --> 00:57:18.350 align:middle line:90% they think is different. 00:57:18.350 --> 00:57:20.840 align:middle line:84% So he finally, after six visits to the plant, 00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:23.810 align:middle line:84% when he didn't get it, OK, got a three-hour lecture. 00:57:23.810 --> 00:57:26.840 align:middle line:90% And then his eyes lit up. 00:57:26.840 --> 00:57:29.070 align:middle line:84% It was such a different way of thinking. 00:57:29.070 --> 00:57:30.860 align:middle line:90% He just couldn't see it. 00:57:30.860 --> 00:57:33.290 align:middle line:90% Simply could not see it. 00:57:33.290 --> 00:57:37.080 align:middle line:84% But once explained, it made sense. 00:57:37.080 --> 00:57:40.430 align:middle line:84% So it was a different way of looking at things. 00:57:40.430 --> 00:57:43.850 align:middle line:90% And we learn from them. 00:57:43.850 --> 00:57:48.010 align:middle line:84% And I claim that the reason that they were successful 00:57:48.010 --> 00:57:53.640 align:middle line:84% is they looked at the production process in a more abstract way. 00:57:53.640 --> 00:57:57.090 align:middle line:84% And that fits in with the national cultural 00:57:57.090 --> 00:58:00.150 align:middle line:90% of value, my claim. 00:58:00.150 --> 00:58:04.170 align:middle line:84% In Germany, where quality wasn't so much the issue. 00:58:04.170 --> 00:58:05.910 align:middle line:90% It was mastery of details. 00:58:05.910 --> 00:58:12.585 align:middle line:84% The German mastery of details is a big deal of that culture. 00:58:12.585 --> 00:58:18.570 align:middle line:84% Meister is what they call them, meister, uber meister. 00:58:18.570 --> 00:58:22.570 align:middle line:84% And that gave him the ability to do things better and better. 00:58:22.570 --> 00:58:25.860 align:middle line:84% Some people actually claimed the Germans lost World War II 00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:28.950 align:middle line:84% because they were too wedded to this notion of mastery. 00:58:28.950 --> 00:58:32.640 align:middle line:84% So they have all these great guys on their production plants 00:58:32.640 --> 00:58:34.680 align:middle line:90% making tanks. 00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:38.550 align:middle line:84% Well, each one of them makes a slightly different tank 00:58:38.550 --> 00:58:40.917 align:middle line:84% based on his way of doing things. 00:58:40.917 --> 00:58:42.250 align:middle line:90% He won't listen to anybody else. 00:58:42.250 --> 00:58:44.140 align:middle line:90% You make the tank this way. 00:58:44.140 --> 00:58:46.680 align:middle line:84% So the Germans went into battle against Russia 00:58:46.680 --> 00:58:50.610 align:middle line:84% with a whole slew of tanks, which are fine and dandy. 00:58:50.610 --> 00:58:53.190 align:middle line:84% Each of them worked very well, until for some reason, 00:58:53.190 --> 00:58:54.960 align:middle line:90% some part failed. 00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:57.600 align:middle line:84% And they had a problem getting any parts because all the parts 00:58:57.600 --> 00:58:59.350 align:middle line:90% were different. 00:58:59.350 --> 00:59:01.720 align:middle line:84% Whereas, the Americans made the same tank 00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:03.280 align:middle line:90% over and over and over again. 00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.080 align:middle line:84% And by golly, there was no problem 00:59:05.080 --> 00:59:08.160 align:middle line:90% with interchangeable parts. 00:59:08.160 --> 00:59:10.060 align:middle line:84% Anyways, probably not the only reason 00:59:10.060 --> 00:59:13.450 align:middle line:84% they lost, but maybe one of the reasons. 00:59:13.450 --> 00:59:16.270 align:middle line:84% So we learned from the Japanese, who are still ahead, 00:59:16.270 --> 00:59:18.320 align:middle line:90% as I said before. 00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:22.580 align:middle line:84% And one of the things we learned was wrong. 00:59:22.580 --> 00:59:24.700 align:middle line:84% So one of the things we thought we learned 00:59:24.700 --> 00:59:31.830 align:middle line:84% is how to organize firms, which we realized were hierarchical. 00:59:31.830 --> 00:59:34.870 align:middle line:84% But as they grew, we allowed the hierarchy 00:59:34.870 --> 00:59:38.630 align:middle line:90% to grow into many, many levels. 00:59:38.630 --> 00:59:40.030 align:middle line:90% And so we said, no, no, no. 00:59:40.030 --> 00:59:42.190 align:middle line:84% The way to understand the Japanese 00:59:42.190 --> 00:59:45.860 align:middle line:84% is they don't have middle managers. 00:59:45.860 --> 00:59:48.540 align:middle line:84% Let's get rid of the middle managers. 00:59:48.540 --> 00:59:51.450 align:middle line:84% Well, what it really, to me, explains 00:59:51.450 --> 00:59:54.310 align:middle line:84% is we don't understand middle management. 00:59:54.310 --> 00:59:55.980 align:middle line:84% What's the role of a middle manager? 00:59:55.980 --> 00:59:58.320 align:middle line:84% Well, in the American way, a role of the middle managers 00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:00.240 align:middle line:90% to check up on people. 01:00:00.240 --> 01:00:02.280 align:middle line:84% Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? 01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:05.280 align:middle line:90% Are you screwing up? 01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.130 align:middle line:84% Oh, that's not the role of a middle manager. 01:00:07.130 --> 01:00:08.838 align:middle line:84% The role of a middle manager is, is there 01:00:08.838 --> 01:00:10.530 align:middle line:90% any way I can help you? 01:00:10.530 --> 01:00:14.640 align:middle line:84% Can I teach you what it is that you need to know? 01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:16.380 align:middle line:90% On the next project-- 01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:19.170 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's a different attitude 01:00:19.170 --> 01:00:20.670 align:middle line:84% toward the role of middle manager. 01:00:20.670 --> 01:00:23.460 align:middle line:84% You can have fewer levels of middle management 01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:26.250 align:middle line:84% if you recognize what the proper role is. 01:00:26.250 --> 01:00:29.610 align:middle line:84% But if you simply say, middle management is just at waste, 01:00:29.610 --> 01:00:32.400 align:middle line:84% just added fat, let's get rid of it. 01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:34.650 align:middle line:84% You're going to get run yourself into some difficulty. 01:00:34.650 --> 01:00:36.420 align:middle line:90% And I think many companies have. 01:00:36.420 --> 01:00:41.040 align:middle line:90% 01:00:41.040 --> 01:00:46.140 align:middle line:84% So what saved us in the '90s is the line here. 01:00:46.140 --> 01:00:47.340 align:middle line:90% The two problems. 01:00:47.340 --> 01:00:49.980 align:middle line:84% Problem number one is that Japanese got 01:00:49.980 --> 01:00:53.260 align:middle line:90% hurt by the real estate bubble. 01:00:53.260 --> 01:01:00.430 align:middle line:84% In 1988 or '89, the government of New Zealand 01:01:00.430 --> 01:01:05.540 align:middle line:84% sold its embassy in downtown Tokyo. 01:01:05.540 --> 01:01:07.460 align:middle line:84% And the value of real estate was so high, 01:01:07.460 --> 01:01:09.950 align:middle line:84% they were able to zero out their national debt. 01:01:09.950 --> 01:01:12.530 align:middle line:90% 01:01:12.530 --> 01:01:16.490 align:middle line:84% The value of the few acres in downtown Tokyo 01:01:16.490 --> 01:01:23.300 align:middle line:84% near the Emperor's palace was equal to the assessed value 01:01:23.300 --> 01:01:25.750 align:middle line:90% of California. 01:01:25.750 --> 01:01:27.730 align:middle line:90% I mean, it was out of sight. 01:01:27.730 --> 01:01:30.130 align:middle line:90% And did they have a bubble. 01:01:30.130 --> 01:01:32.440 align:middle line:84% And then the Japanese don't allow 01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:35.290 align:middle line:84% themselves to let the banks go out of business readily. 01:01:35.290 --> 01:01:38.590 align:middle line:84% And therefore, they just took years and years and years 01:01:38.590 --> 01:01:39.700 align:middle line:90% to get out of this. 01:01:39.700 --> 01:01:41.900 align:middle line:84% And they're just starting to come out of it. 01:01:41.900 --> 01:01:44.380 align:middle line:84% And so that helped the Americans in the '90s. 01:01:44.380 --> 01:01:46.090 align:middle line:90% They didn't have the Japanese-- 01:01:46.090 --> 01:01:47.860 align:middle line:84% the same Japanese to compete with. 01:01:47.860 --> 01:01:50.020 align:middle line:84% And what hurt the Germans in the '90s 01:01:50.020 --> 01:01:52.690 align:middle line:84% was reunification with East Germany, where the West 01:01:52.690 --> 01:01:54.550 align:middle line:84% Germans had to send a lot of money 01:01:54.550 --> 01:01:58.690 align:middle line:84% over to make the East Germans appear a little closer 01:01:58.690 --> 01:02:02.500 align:middle line:84% in terms of their economic status to the West Germans. 01:02:02.500 --> 01:02:04.910 align:middle line:90% And so they got hurt that way. 01:02:04.910 --> 01:02:07.190 align:middle line:84% On the other hand, now, as you could say, 01:02:07.190 --> 01:02:10.460 align:middle line:84% well, so we're doing fine against these guys. 01:02:10.460 --> 01:02:13.280 align:middle line:84% But they're coming back is my argument. 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:16.210 align:middle line:84% But now everybody is worried about China and India. 01:02:16.210 --> 01:02:19.720 align:middle line:84% And it's not clear exactly how these different modes 01:02:19.720 --> 01:02:21.970 align:middle line:84% of thought and variations on them 01:02:21.970 --> 01:02:25.720 align:middle line:84% are going to deal with the challenge from a billion three 01:02:25.720 --> 01:02:28.420 align:middle line:84% or whatever the number is of people in China 01:02:28.420 --> 01:02:30.670 align:middle line:90% and the Indian challenge. 01:02:30.670 --> 01:02:32.050 align:middle line:90% I'm not predicting the future. 01:02:32.050 --> 01:02:35.200 align:middle line:84% I'm just saying that this way of thinking about it 01:02:35.200 --> 01:02:40.060 align:middle line:84% tends to clarify, at least in my thinking, what 01:02:40.060 --> 01:02:43.100 align:middle line:84% has been going on, even as recently as a decade ago. 01:02:43.100 --> 01:02:47.140 align:middle line:84% But in terms of predicting the future, it's not as good. 01:02:47.140 --> 01:02:49.675 align:middle line:90% 01:02:49.675 --> 01:02:50.175 align:middle line:90% End. 01:02:50.175 --> 01:02:54.168 align:middle line:90% 01:02:54.168 --> 01:02:55.710 align:middle line:84% JON GRUDEN: I hope you stay up there. 01:02:55.710 --> 01:02:59.325 align:middle line:90% We got some more questions. 01:02:59.325 --> 01:02:59.950 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: OK. 01:02:59.950 --> 01:03:01.300 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: Or comments. 01:03:01.300 --> 01:03:04.568 align:middle line:84% Let's have a little more discussion. 01:03:04.568 --> 01:03:07.110 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Could we hear a little bit more about the Toyota-GM 01:03:07.110 --> 01:03:07.680 align:middle line:90% you said that-- 01:03:07.680 --> 01:03:08.683 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: NUMMI plant. 01:03:08.683 --> 01:03:10.870 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --the manager went out there and could see-- 01:03:10.870 --> 01:03:13.037 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: The vice president went out there, yeah. 01:03:13.037 --> 01:03:16.568 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --three hours, and what were the differences? 01:03:16.568 --> 01:03:18.860 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: He may not realize the importance of things 01:03:18.860 --> 01:03:20.570 align:middle line:90% like just in time. 01:03:20.570 --> 01:03:23.120 align:middle line:84% I mean, things were being delivered, 01:03:23.120 --> 01:03:25.910 align:middle line:84% but they got deliveries in GM plants too. 01:03:25.910 --> 01:03:27.500 align:middle line:84% But the fact that their deliveries 01:03:27.500 --> 01:03:32.180 align:middle line:84% were relatively few and specialized to the cars just 01:03:32.180 --> 01:03:36.950 align:middle line:84% now being worked on, maybe something he may have missed. 01:03:36.950 --> 01:03:40.100 align:middle line:84% Now mind you, this is the guy who came a year later here 01:03:40.100 --> 01:03:41.750 align:middle line:90% and gave a talk at Kresge. 01:03:41.750 --> 01:03:44.420 align:middle line:84% And he said, well, I got my MBA at MIT. 01:03:44.420 --> 01:03:46.710 align:middle line:84% And then he had a briefcase with him. 01:03:46.710 --> 01:03:48.710 align:middle line:84% He threw out the contents of a briefcase. 01:03:48.710 --> 01:03:50.610 align:middle line:90% It was a bunch of books. 01:03:50.610 --> 01:03:53.780 align:middle line:84% And he says, these are the books they taught me. 01:03:53.780 --> 01:03:55.730 align:middle line:84% Now, in the automobile business, we 01:03:55.730 --> 01:03:58.040 align:middle line:84% have recalls for things that don't work. 01:03:58.040 --> 01:04:00.440 align:middle line:90% MIT should have a recall. 01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:04.780 align:middle line:84% And for free, they should re-educate us. 01:04:04.780 --> 01:04:06.710 align:middle line:90% He was a character. 01:04:06.710 --> 01:04:10.790 align:middle line:84% So after he learned these things, he saw the light. 01:04:10.790 --> 01:04:13.250 align:middle line:84% The trouble is, I said earlier-- and maybe you missed it, 01:04:13.250 --> 01:04:17.030 align:middle line:84% Tony-- is that in some sense, it became a religion 01:04:17.030 --> 01:04:17.810 align:middle line:90% after a while. 01:04:17.810 --> 01:04:20.920 align:middle line:84% These are the seven steps to heaven. 01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:24.290 align:middle line:84% And we didn't realize the Japanese were constantly 01:04:24.290 --> 01:04:25.970 align:middle line:84% tinkering with the process and they 01:04:25.970 --> 01:04:27.260 align:middle line:90% were improving and improving. 01:04:27.260 --> 01:04:30.110 align:middle line:90% And even the Germans got better. 01:04:30.110 --> 01:04:32.930 align:middle line:84% I mean, what happened was that of all 01:04:32.930 --> 01:04:39.080 align:middle line:84% the firms, the worst performing in terms of quality and cost-- 01:04:39.080 --> 01:04:41.240 align:middle line:84% well, not so much quality, but certainly cost-- 01:04:41.240 --> 01:04:43.550 align:middle line:90% were Daimler-Benz Mercedes. 01:04:43.550 --> 01:04:45.925 align:middle line:84% And the president Mercedes called up president of MIT 01:04:45.925 --> 01:04:49.640 align:middle line:84% in '88 or '89 and he said, you can't publish that result. 01:04:49.640 --> 01:04:51.920 align:middle line:84% You're going to be like a laughing stock. 01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:55.520 align:middle line:84% You can't tell me a Mercedes is the worst performing plant 01:04:55.520 --> 01:04:56.750 align:middle line:90% on Earth. 01:04:56.750 --> 01:04:58.580 align:middle line:84% Well, we published the result anyway. 01:04:58.580 --> 01:04:59.650 align:middle line:90% And this guy got canned. 01:04:59.650 --> 01:05:00.650 align:middle line:90% And the new guy came in. 01:05:00.650 --> 01:05:02.770 align:middle line:84% He says, I'm going to make every vice president 01:05:02.770 --> 01:05:05.630 align:middle line:90% of the company read that book. 01:05:05.630 --> 01:05:06.980 align:middle line:90% So he got the religion. 01:05:06.980 --> 01:05:10.790 align:middle line:84% And they all did because once you show what the numbers are-- 01:05:10.790 --> 01:05:13.160 align:middle line:90% a little dose of reality-- 01:05:13.160 --> 01:05:16.780 align:middle line:84% it made a big difference in the automobile industry. 01:05:16.780 --> 01:05:18.450 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I read somewhere and-- 01:05:18.450 --> 01:05:19.380 align:middle line:84% maybe I'm thinking of something else. 01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:21.020 align:middle line:84% We're talking about lean manufacturing? 01:05:21.020 --> 01:05:23.312 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: Yes, it's exactly what we're talking about. 01:05:23.312 --> 01:05:26.455 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: If you're on a certain level of the hierarchy, 01:05:26.455 --> 01:05:27.838 align:middle line:90% you don't move up? 01:05:27.838 --> 01:05:29.528 align:middle line:90% Is that true? 01:05:29.528 --> 01:05:32.580 align:middle line:84% Because if you're his friend and you do a certain job, 01:05:32.580 --> 01:05:35.700 align:middle line:84% you do it really well, maybe you get a different kind of reward. 01:05:35.700 --> 01:05:37.500 align:middle line:90% But you won't be promoted to-- 01:05:37.500 --> 01:05:40.030 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: So the promotion process, to remind you, 01:05:40.030 --> 01:05:42.810 align:middle line:90% you don't have very many levels. 01:05:42.810 --> 01:05:44.460 align:middle line:84% So one of the things that happens 01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:47.910 align:middle line:84% is promotions, if they do occur, are slow. 01:05:47.910 --> 01:05:51.510 align:middle line:84% Americans love to be promoted fast. 01:05:51.510 --> 01:05:54.870 align:middle line:90% I want to be promoted fast. 01:05:54.870 --> 01:05:57.720 align:middle line:84% Two or three years on the job and I want out of here. 01:05:57.720 --> 01:06:00.450 align:middle line:84% Leave all the mess to my successor. 01:06:00.450 --> 01:06:04.440 align:middle line:90% So the Japanese move slowly. 01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:10.680 align:middle line:84% Now in terms of promotion, what happens is first off, 01:06:10.680 --> 01:06:13.650 align:middle line:84% they retire early, 55, unless they 01:06:13.650 --> 01:06:15.300 align:middle line:90% happen to be senior management. 01:06:15.300 --> 01:06:17.760 align:middle line:84% Then they can retire at 60 or 65 maybe. 01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:20.010 align:middle line:84% But 55 is a normal retirement age 01:06:20.010 --> 01:06:22.050 align:middle line:90% for so-called salaried workers. 01:06:22.050 --> 01:06:27.750 align:middle line:84% And what happens is they move over to a subsidiary company. 01:06:27.750 --> 01:06:30.030 align:middle line:84% And a subsidiary company knows that they better 01:06:30.030 --> 01:06:32.550 align:middle line:84% hire some of these guys otherwise 01:06:32.550 --> 01:06:35.910 align:middle line:84% they're not going to remain as part of the supply chain 01:06:35.910 --> 01:06:36.660 align:middle line:90% as much. 01:06:36.660 --> 01:06:40.380 align:middle line:84% So slower promotions-- not nonexistent, but slower 01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:41.010 align:middle line:90% promotions. 01:06:41.010 --> 01:06:43.020 align:middle line:84% Some people don't get promoted, but they 01:06:43.020 --> 01:06:45.090 align:middle line:90% don't get demoted either. 01:06:45.090 --> 01:06:53.200 align:middle line:84% They get given a chair further away from the action. 01:06:53.200 --> 01:06:56.760 align:middle line:84% So in principle, everybody in a given level at the company 01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:58.920 align:middle line:84% is at a given level of the company. 01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:01.950 align:middle line:84% But when you listen to people, you 01:07:01.950 --> 01:07:04.050 align:middle line:90% listen only to a few of them. 01:07:04.050 --> 01:07:06.300 align:middle line:84% The others can talk all they want, 01:07:06.300 --> 01:07:08.250 align:middle line:84% nobody's going to pay much attention to-- 01:07:08.250 --> 01:07:11.790 align:middle line:84% everybody realizes that within this particular level, 01:07:11.790 --> 01:07:14.700 align:middle line:84% all these guys who are 40 years old, two or three of them 01:07:14.700 --> 01:07:17.370 align:middle line:84% are really the ones to listen to. 01:07:17.370 --> 01:07:19.680 align:middle line:90% It's a complicated game. 01:07:19.680 --> 01:07:23.610 align:middle line:84% But again, very much related to this issue. 01:07:23.610 --> 01:07:27.030 align:middle line:84% Whereas, the fast promotion, if you have 20 different levels, 01:07:27.030 --> 01:07:31.440 align:middle line:84% you want to go through, [SHUFFLING SOUND].. 01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.200 align:middle line:84% And again, also the salary ratio, 01:07:34.200 --> 01:07:37.590 align:middle line:84% we worry about how high the ratio is in the United States. 01:07:37.590 --> 01:07:41.220 align:middle line:84% Several to one between a CEO and the lowest paid worker. 01:07:41.220 --> 01:07:44.490 align:middle line:84% But maybe only a dozen to one in Japan. 01:07:44.490 --> 01:07:46.170 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's a different attitude. 01:07:46.170 --> 01:07:49.290 align:middle line:84% And again, the attitude of, we're all in it together. 01:07:49.290 --> 01:07:51.930 align:middle line:90% We are the Toyota team. 01:07:51.930 --> 01:07:55.860 align:middle line:84% And we are going to beat out, not only GM and Ford, 01:07:55.860 --> 01:07:59.070 align:middle line:90% but Nissan and Honda. 01:07:59.070 --> 01:08:00.990 align:middle line:84% On the other hand, we're going to cooperate 01:08:00.990 --> 01:08:02.640 align:middle line:90% between Toyota and Nissan. 01:08:02.640 --> 01:08:05.940 align:middle line:84% We're going to cooperate on processes, not on products. 01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:08.615 align:middle line:84% We're going to cooperate on business practices, 01:08:08.615 --> 01:08:09.450 align:middle line:90% on knowledge. 01:08:09.450 --> 01:08:11.670 align:middle line:84% But not things that are intimately 01:08:11.670 --> 01:08:13.720 align:middle line:90% tied to our products. 01:08:13.720 --> 01:08:16.979 align:middle line:84% So there is an attitude about what's to be cooperated on 01:08:16.979 --> 01:08:18.569 align:middle line:90% and what's to be competed on. 01:08:18.569 --> 01:08:22.560 align:middle line:84% And it is a very different way of doing business. 01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:25.979 align:middle line:84% And it works some of the time, not all the time. 01:08:25.979 --> 01:08:28.157 align:middle line:90% Nothing works all the time. 01:08:28.157 --> 01:08:28.740 align:middle line:90% You hear that? 01:08:28.740 --> 01:08:32.135 align:middle line:90% 01:08:32.135 --> 01:08:34.930 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Can I ask you about your claim 01:08:34.930 --> 01:08:37.696 align:middle line:84% that design isn't as unique as engineering. 01:08:37.696 --> 01:08:38.779 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Of course not. 01:08:38.779 --> 01:08:41.460 align:middle line:90% 01:08:41.460 --> 01:08:43.649 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Which I agree with. 01:08:43.649 --> 01:08:46.140 align:middle line:84% But so then I wonder, how do you think 01:08:46.140 --> 01:08:50.010 align:middle line:90% about defining engineering? 01:08:50.010 --> 01:08:52.680 align:middle line:84% I guess you would say just engineering is 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:57.420 align:middle line:84% closer than to what systems philosophers do. 01:08:57.420 --> 01:08:58.410 align:middle line:90% But [INAUDIBLE]. 01:08:58.410 --> 01:08:59.910 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: No, systems philosophers 01:08:59.910 --> 01:09:03.660 align:middle line:84% worry about all kinds of systems or organizational systems. 01:09:03.660 --> 01:09:04.529 align:middle line:90% All kind of things. 01:09:04.529 --> 01:09:06.390 align:middle line:84% What engineers tend to do is they 01:09:06.390 --> 01:09:10.920 align:middle line:84% use their knowledge of math, science, and engineering 01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:14.920 align:middle line:84% science in order to develop products, processes, 01:09:14.920 --> 01:09:16.748 align:middle line:90% systems for society. 01:09:16.748 --> 01:09:17.790 align:middle line:90% There are certain kinds-- 01:09:17.790 --> 01:09:19.111 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: --specific purpose. 01:09:19.111 --> 01:09:20.069 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Absolutely. 01:09:20.069 --> 01:09:20.569 align:middle line:90% Absolutely. 01:09:20.569 --> 01:09:21.212 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 01:09:21.212 --> 01:09:22.170 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Absolutely. 01:09:22.170 --> 01:09:26.550 align:middle line:84% But see, in a sense, so is design and music. 01:09:26.550 --> 01:09:29.130 align:middle line:84% But the musician doesn't necessarily 01:09:29.130 --> 01:09:30.990 align:middle line:84% rely on his understanding of physics. 01:09:30.990 --> 01:09:35.950 align:middle line:84% He doesn't rely on energy as a variable. 01:09:35.950 --> 01:09:37.700 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That's [? definitely ?] strange. 01:09:37.700 --> 01:09:39.560 align:middle line:84% Like, music isn't necessarily constrained-- 01:09:39.560 --> 01:09:41.010 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: It's constrained in some ways, 01:09:41.010 --> 01:09:41.790 align:middle line:90% but not in other ways. 01:09:41.790 --> 01:09:43.498 align:middle line:84% Let me give you an example of constraint. 01:09:43.498 --> 01:09:46.729 align:middle line:84% So I was taking music appreciation 101. 01:09:46.729 --> 01:09:49.130 align:middle line:84% And a student got up in the course 01:09:49.130 --> 01:09:51.569 align:middle line:84% and he said, Professor, I don't understand. 01:09:51.569 --> 01:09:53.779 align:middle line:84% How did Mozart manage to write so many symphonies 01:09:53.779 --> 01:09:58.550 align:middle line:84% when he was so constrained by the sonata form, ABA? 01:09:58.550 --> 01:10:01.040 align:middle line:84% The professor's answer was, because Mozart 01:10:01.040 --> 01:10:02.642 align:middle line:84% was so constrained by the sonata form, 01:10:02.642 --> 01:10:04.100 align:middle line:84% he was able to write lots of music. 01:10:04.100 --> 01:10:08.090 align:middle line:90% 01:10:08.090 --> 01:10:11.060 align:middle line:90% Constraints can be good. 01:10:11.060 --> 01:10:12.810 align:middle line:90% Constraints can be good. 01:10:12.810 --> 01:10:15.450 align:middle line:84% So computer scientists actually have a problem. 01:10:15.450 --> 01:10:17.360 align:middle line:84% They're not so constrained by physics 01:10:17.360 --> 01:10:19.280 align:middle line:90% and so they can try anything. 01:10:19.280 --> 01:10:20.690 align:middle line:90% And boy, they bollocks it up. 01:10:20.690 --> 01:10:24.380 align:middle line:84% They get overly complex software without realizing it. 01:10:24.380 --> 01:10:27.320 align:middle line:84% And after a while, they can't make any further changes. 01:10:27.320 --> 01:10:29.870 align:middle line:84% I'll give you an example of overly complex software. 01:10:29.870 --> 01:10:32.780 align:middle line:84% So Jimmy Carter was president before you were born, 01:10:32.780 --> 01:10:35.750 align:middle line:90% but I remember him well. 01:10:35.750 --> 01:10:37.250 align:middle line:90% I'm sure Taft does too. 01:10:37.250 --> 01:10:40.730 align:middle line:90% And he was not the smartest guy. 01:10:40.730 --> 01:10:43.430 align:middle line:84% He was an engineer, so not necessarily the smartest 01:10:43.430 --> 01:10:44.010 align:middle line:90% politician. 01:10:44.010 --> 01:10:45.620 align:middle line:84% Now one of the things he decided he 01:10:45.620 --> 01:10:48.740 align:middle line:84% was going to do because he believed in truth and all that 01:10:48.740 --> 01:10:50.960 align:middle line:84% is he was going to allow people to call him 01:10:50.960 --> 01:10:52.910 align:middle line:84% on the radio on Saturday afternoons 01:10:52.910 --> 01:10:54.960 align:middle line:90% and ask any question they want. 01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:57.710 align:middle line:84% So a lady called up and she said, well, 01:10:57.710 --> 01:11:00.260 align:middle line:90% I get Social Security. 01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:03.140 align:middle line:84% And Social Security has updated, my check 01:11:03.140 --> 01:11:05.480 align:middle line:84% is increased relative to inflation. 01:11:05.480 --> 01:11:07.250 align:middle line:84% In those days, inflation was quite high. 01:11:07.250 --> 01:11:09.920 align:middle line:90% And it's done once a year. 01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:11.900 align:middle line:84% Because inflation is so high, it would really 01:11:11.900 --> 01:11:16.460 align:middle line:84% help me a lot if it were done twice a year. 01:11:16.460 --> 01:11:18.650 align:middle line:90% He said, OK, I'll look into it. 01:11:18.650 --> 01:11:21.650 align:middle line:84% So months later, some enterprising journalists said, 01:11:21.650 --> 01:11:24.590 align:middle line:84% whatever happened to that lady's question? 01:11:24.590 --> 01:11:26.210 align:middle line:90% And Carter had to own up. 01:11:26.210 --> 01:11:30.320 align:middle line:84% He said, well, we asked the people at HHS 01:11:30.320 --> 01:11:31.500 align:middle line:90% where they can do this. 01:11:31.500 --> 01:11:34.955 align:middle line:84% And they said, well, if they try doing that they couldn't 01:11:34.955 --> 01:11:37.580 align:middle line:84% guarantee that the checks would come out because the system was 01:11:37.580 --> 01:11:40.250 align:middle line:84% so complicated, the ramification of that little change 01:11:40.250 --> 01:11:43.370 align:middle line:84% could create such a havoc that they dare not do it. 01:11:43.370 --> 01:11:45.215 align:middle line:90% That's overly complicated. 01:11:45.215 --> 01:11:50.340 align:middle line:90% 01:11:50.340 --> 01:11:53.130 align:middle line:84% A minute to go, guys, according to that watch. 01:11:53.130 --> 01:11:56.630 align:middle line:90% 01:11:56.630 --> 01:11:58.610 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: Well, thanks again. 01:11:58.610 --> 01:12:01.930 align:middle line:84% And next week, we are off Tuesday. 01:12:01.930 --> 01:12:02.740 align:middle line:90% Is that right? 01:12:02.740 --> 01:12:05.020 align:middle line:84% JOEL MOSES: Yes, because Tuesday's a Monday. 01:12:05.020 --> 01:12:06.700 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: Tuesday's a Monday? 01:12:06.700 --> 01:12:09.010 align:middle line:84% OK, well, then first thing I need to know 01:12:09.010 --> 01:12:13.310 align:middle line:84% is, what kind of publication rights 01:12:13.310 --> 01:12:15.740 align:middle line:84% are you going to give us with these slides 01:12:15.740 --> 01:12:18.090 align:middle line:84% since I've got them on my machine? 01:12:18.090 --> 01:12:19.130 align:middle line:90% Can we send them to the? 01:12:19.130 --> 01:12:21.030 align:middle line:90% JOEL MOSES: Oh, absolutely. 01:12:21.030 --> 01:12:24.480 align:middle line:84% JON GRUDEN: All right, then I'll take responsibility for that. 01:12:24.480 --> 01:12:27.160 align:middle line:90% I have a grading scheme. 01:12:27.160 --> 01:12:30.040 align:middle line:84% And I'll be frank with you, I really 01:12:30.040 --> 01:12:34.370 align:middle line:84% don't want to put it in concrete until you talk about it. 01:12:34.370 --> 01:12:39.120 align:middle line:84% Now I want to be able to reveal some of my subconscious to you 01:12:39.120 --> 01:12:40.330 align:middle line:90% before we do this. 01:12:40.330 --> 01:12:43.550 align:middle line:90% 01:12:43.550 --> 01:12:48.920 align:middle line:84% You want to look at partly a Democratic process. 01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:52.205 align:middle line:90% And I emphasize partly. 01:12:52.205 --> 01:12:54.330 align:middle line:84% And you could say what you think is right, what you 01:12:54.330 --> 01:12:56.710 align:middle line:90% think is fair, unfair about it. 01:12:56.710 --> 01:13:00.370 align:middle line:84% The [INAUDIBLE],, what I'm really looking for you to say 01:13:00.370 --> 01:13:03.640 align:middle line:84% is, well, look, Dr. Gruden, this latest scheme 01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:06.520 align:middle line:84% here is not as tough as we feel it should be. 01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:08.680 align:middle line:84% We want a more rigorous class in here. 01:13:08.680 --> 01:13:10.130 align:middle line:90% We want to do x, y, z. 01:13:10.130 --> 01:13:13.480 align:middle line:84% I'm really looking for you to add something to this. 01:13:13.480 --> 01:13:14.975 align:middle line:90% You don't have to do that. 01:13:14.975 --> 01:13:16.850 align:middle line:84% But if you think something's unfair about it, 01:13:16.850 --> 01:13:17.920 align:middle line:90% I want to hear about it. 01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:20.680 align:middle line:84% And wherever I go from there, I want 01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:23.200 align:middle line:84% to be able to say, well, I heard from them. 01:13:23.200 --> 01:13:25.300 align:middle line:84% They won't do it, but I heard from them, 01:13:25.300 --> 01:13:28.490 align:middle line:84% if that's what it really comes down to it. 01:13:28.490 --> 01:13:32.010 align:middle line:84% Your next assignment-- how you doing with this work? 01:13:32.010 --> 01:13:32.830 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Oh, gosh. 01:13:32.830 --> 01:13:34.580 align:middle line:84% My book, something happened with the mail, 01:13:34.580 --> 01:13:35.622 align:middle line:90% but they're resending it. 01:13:35.622 --> 01:13:37.300 align:middle line:84% I should get it in a couple of days. 01:13:37.300 --> 01:13:37.720 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: OK. 01:13:37.720 --> 01:13:39.899 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So actually, definitely about next Thursday, 01:13:39.899 --> 01:13:40.270 align:middle line:90% I would think. 01:13:40.270 --> 01:13:41.520 align:middle line:90% JON GRUDEN: Oh, that far away? 01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:42.600 align:middle line:90% 01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:43.835 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Well, we can share. 01:13:43.835 --> 01:13:45.210 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I have your email, so I 01:13:45.210 --> 01:13:47.543 align:middle line:84% can [? work ?] on getting it in the next couple of days. 01:13:47.543 --> 01:13:49.890 align:middle line:84% JON GRUDEN: Well, I have another copy. 01:13:49.890 --> 01:13:52.240 align:middle line:90% I'll loan you my copy. 01:13:52.240 --> 01:13:54.913 align:middle line:84% I have, actually, an older version in my office. 01:13:54.913 --> 01:13:56.330 align:middle line:84% I'll give you the updated version. 01:13:56.330 --> 01:13:57.997 align:middle line:84% What I want you to do is read two cases, 01:13:57.997 --> 01:13:59.140 align:middle line:90% since we have so much time. 01:13:59.140 --> 01:14:04.420 align:middle line:84% I want you to read the Ford Pinto case. 01:14:04.420 --> 01:14:09.652 align:middle line:84% And I want you to read the Challenger case. 01:14:09.652 --> 01:14:12.890 align:middle line:90% 01:14:12.890 --> 01:14:18.560 align:middle line:84% Next week, we'll start converging on something 01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:22.070 align:middle line:84% much more high quality with the ethics. 01:14:22.070 --> 01:14:24.320 align:middle line:84% And then we're going to start putting the ethics 01:14:24.320 --> 01:14:26.510 align:middle line:90% and the engineering together. 01:14:26.510 --> 01:14:30.580 align:middle line:84% And my assignment for next week-- for the following week-- 01:14:30.580 --> 01:14:36.215 align:middle line:84% will be turn in the first analysis. 01:14:36.215 --> 01:14:39.470 align:middle line:84% And I'll give you the format, tell you how to write 01:14:39.470 --> 01:14:41.420 align:middle line:90% and see what's done. 01:14:41.420 --> 01:14:44.930 align:middle line:84% Once you get my methods down, then we'll 01:14:44.930 --> 01:14:48.020 align:middle line:84% start talking about a little education. 01:14:48.020 --> 01:14:51.070 align:middle line:90% You'll start doing it your way. 01:14:51.070 --> 01:14:55.800 align:middle line:84% Also, you want to sign that you listened and watched this film. 01:14:55.800 --> 01:14:59.270 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 01:14:59.270 --> 01:15:01.300 align:middle line:90% OK, that's it.