WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.570 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.570 --> 00:00:02.370 align:middle line:84% The following content is provided 00:00:02.370 --> 00:00:06.330 align:middle line:84% by MIT OpenCourseWare under a Creative Commons license. 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.050 align:middle line:84% Additional information about our license at MIT OpenCourseWare, 00:00:10.050 --> 00:00:12.710 align:middle line:84% in general, is available at ocw.mit.edu. 00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:16.280 align:middle line:90% 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:18.710 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: OK, then what we'll do 00:00:18.710 --> 00:00:24.770 align:middle line:84% today is a recapitulation of the semester, a forward look 00:00:24.770 --> 00:00:27.800 align:middle line:84% into the rest of the semester, adjusting 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:34.160 align:middle line:84% the syllabus to concerns, all concerns as best we can. 00:00:34.160 --> 00:00:40.370 align:middle line:84% And then I want to do an introduction 00:00:40.370 --> 00:00:43.330 align:middle line:90% to codes of ethics. 00:00:43.330 --> 00:00:46.660 align:middle line:84% And as long as we're not talking too much about hyperspaces, 00:00:46.660 --> 00:00:49.030 align:middle line:90% then I won't get carried off. 00:00:49.030 --> 00:00:53.110 align:middle line:84% I'll be able to talk about that that I don't 00:00:53.110 --> 00:00:54.490 align:middle line:90% want to talk about hyperspaces. 00:00:54.490 --> 00:00:57.640 align:middle line:84% But then we'll talk about codes of ethics. 00:00:57.640 --> 00:00:59.990 align:middle line:84% We've all met our visitor today, and he 00:00:59.990 --> 00:01:03.490 align:middle line:84% is welcome to participate in the class. 00:01:03.490 --> 00:01:06.250 align:middle line:84% He's a colleague of Tony and mine, 00:01:06.250 --> 00:01:09.250 align:middle line:84% and it's an honor to have with us. 00:01:09.250 --> 00:01:13.987 align:middle line:84% But you will find, in this class, a motivation 00:01:13.987 --> 00:01:15.070 align:middle line:90% to say something, I think. 00:01:15.070 --> 00:01:17.710 align:middle line:90% 00:01:17.710 --> 00:01:24.670 align:middle line:84% Tell you what, before we get started on this recap, 00:01:24.670 --> 00:01:30.940 align:middle line:84% we have two opportunities to make up our class with two 00:01:30.940 --> 00:01:33.400 align:middle line:90% lectures outside of the class. 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.730 align:middle line:84% And Miss Bethke and I went to one of them. 00:01:37.730 --> 00:01:43.520 align:middle line:84% She's going to give a report on that particular lecture. 00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:45.530 align:middle line:84% And the other one comes up Friday. 00:01:45.530 --> 00:01:52.708 align:middle line:84% And I got a note back from Nancy already saying, all come. 00:01:52.708 --> 00:01:53.250 align:middle line:90% Please, come. 00:01:53.250 --> 00:01:55.230 align:middle line:84% Looking forward to us the whole bit. 00:01:55.230 --> 00:01:57.420 align:middle line:84% So we can participate if necessary. 00:01:57.420 --> 00:02:01.140 align:middle line:84% So you don't mind if I make sure I got everything up 00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:02.015 align:middle line:90% while you're talking. 00:02:02.015 --> 00:02:02.730 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: No. 00:02:02.730 --> 00:02:03.397 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: OK. 00:02:03.397 --> 00:02:05.182 align:middle line:90% GUEST SPEAKER: [INAUDIBLE] 00:02:05.182 --> 00:02:06.890 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Well, I plan to be surprised 00:02:06.890 --> 00:02:09.880 align:middle line:90% by what you have to say. 00:02:09.880 --> 00:02:21.670 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: So on Friday, [INAUDIBLE] and in the 1980s, 00:02:21.670 --> 00:02:26.020 align:middle line:84% he was very active, in fact, a leader in developing internet 00:02:26.020 --> 00:02:26.950 align:middle line:90% protocol. 00:02:26.950 --> 00:02:30.930 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] but I didn't. 00:02:30.930 --> 00:02:35.940 align:middle line:84% One of the chief architects of the internet. 00:02:35.940 --> 00:02:42.000 align:middle line:84% So this talk [INAUDIBLE] how things have changed since then 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.540 align:middle line:84% and how he's trying to have a new outlook on designing 00:02:45.540 --> 00:02:48.550 align:middle line:90% the internet for the future. 00:02:48.550 --> 00:02:52.350 align:middle line:84% So he started by saying, the code and protocol that 00:02:52.350 --> 00:02:54.450 align:middle line:84% defined the internet were originally 00:02:54.450 --> 00:02:57.250 align:middle line:84% created by a small group of computer scientists, 00:02:57.250 --> 00:02:58.560 align:middle line:90% many here at MIT. 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.200 align:middle line:90% You called these, the Techies. 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:06.300 align:middle line:84% And in the 1990s, Clark realized that these techies were not 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:10.080 align:middle line:84% in charge anymore of the internet, that instead, 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.560 align:middle line:84% economic, social values, politics, this much larger 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.140 align:middle line:84% social space was dictating the way 00:03:16.140 --> 00:03:17.910 align:middle line:90% the internet was developing. 00:03:17.910 --> 00:03:23.050 align:middle line:84% And in return, the internet was changing the social space. 00:03:23.050 --> 00:03:25.120 align:middle line:84% It was deeply affecting the way people lived 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:28.270 align:middle line:90% and the way society functions. 00:03:28.270 --> 00:03:33.580 align:middle line:84% And so now Clark's goals for his professional life 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:37.150 align:middle line:84% are to understand this larger social space 00:03:37.150 --> 00:03:39.790 align:middle line:84% and how it interacts with the internet. 00:03:39.790 --> 00:03:44.228 align:middle line:84% And then, he said, back derive the technology for the future 00:03:44.228 --> 00:03:45.900 align:middle line:90% and [INAUDIBLE] of the internet. 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:48.350 align:middle line:84% So instead of making incremental changes, 00:03:48.350 --> 00:03:52.580 align:middle line:84% really understand this larger social space. 00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:55.310 align:middle line:84% He found that he needed a word to describe 00:03:55.310 --> 00:03:57.650 align:middle line:84% the ever-present and ongoing conflicts 00:03:57.650 --> 00:04:00.800 align:middle line:84% between different groups of users of the internet. 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.010 align:middle line:84% And he calls these social conflicts tussle. 00:04:04.010 --> 00:04:06.770 align:middle line:84% So if you hear him talk or read one of his papers, 00:04:06.770 --> 00:04:08.660 align:middle line:90% you'll see this word tussle. 00:04:08.660 --> 00:04:16.110 align:middle line:84% And in his mind social phenomena, 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:19.649 align:middle line:84% social structures are always being tweaked by us. 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:20.850 align:middle line:90% There's never a final. 00:04:20.850 --> 00:04:22.079 align:middle line:90% There's never a final way. 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.454 align:middle line:84% Public schools are going to be this way forever and ever. 00:04:24.454 --> 00:04:25.770 align:middle line:90% No, we're always changing. 00:04:25.770 --> 00:04:27.630 align:middle line:84% But engineers and computer scientists 00:04:27.630 --> 00:04:32.410 align:middle line:84% are used to designing for a final end, for a final outcome. 00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:35.580 align:middle line:84% And so we have computer scientists 00:04:35.580 --> 00:04:40.880 align:middle line:84% who are really being called upon to do social engineering, 00:04:40.880 --> 00:04:42.300 align:middle line:90% to create the social space. 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:44.150 align:middle line:84% But their training is computer science, 00:04:44.150 --> 00:04:45.950 align:middle line:84% and so there needs to be a rethinking 00:04:45.950 --> 00:04:47.280 align:middle line:90% of designing for tussle. 00:04:47.280 --> 00:04:50.960 align:middle line:90% 00:04:50.960 --> 00:04:52.300 align:middle line:90% Let's see. 00:04:52.300 --> 00:04:56.230 align:middle line:84% So what Clark proposes is to try to predict 00:04:56.230 --> 00:04:58.330 align:middle line:84% these social tussles, these conflicts 00:04:58.330 --> 00:05:00.940 align:middle line:84% between different groups of users of the internet, 00:05:00.940 --> 00:05:04.120 align:middle line:84% and then create an infrastructure that 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.850 align:middle line:90% is robust to those tussles. 00:05:06.850 --> 00:05:09.460 align:middle line:84% So you have to be creative, do a lot of predictive [INAUDIBLE] 00:05:09.460 --> 00:05:10.750 align:middle line:90% in his model. 00:05:10.750 --> 00:05:13.570 align:middle line:84% And he tries to predict these tussles 00:05:13.570 --> 00:05:15.560 align:middle line:84% by thinking about different groups of users, 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.670 align:middle line:84% so interactions between one person 00:05:18.670 --> 00:05:21.070 align:middle line:84% and another person on the internet, interactions 00:05:21.070 --> 00:05:23.770 align:middle line:84% between different groups, interactions 00:05:23.770 --> 00:05:27.220 align:middle line:84% that are common to a whole country, 00:05:27.220 --> 00:05:30.930 align:middle line:84% and the interactions that are beyond country borders. 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:35.130 align:middle line:84% So some examples of tussles are over music sharing. 00:05:35.130 --> 00:05:38.390 align:middle line:84% Like, no one predicted that the way 00:05:38.390 --> 00:05:42.650 align:middle line:84% they can structure the internet would fuel this huge music 00:05:42.650 --> 00:05:44.600 align:middle line:90% sharing problem. 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.390 align:middle line:84% Whether or not to enable encryption over the internet. 00:05:47.390 --> 00:05:50.450 align:middle line:84% For a long time, the government didn't want encryption 00:05:50.450 --> 00:05:56.660 align:middle line:84% to be enabled because then spies could use the internet. 00:05:56.660 --> 00:06:00.020 align:middle line:84% Very recently, what Google is doing in China 00:06:00.020 --> 00:06:05.590 align:middle line:84% to make search engines tailored to the laws 00:06:05.590 --> 00:06:08.650 align:middle line:84% or practices of a specific country, 00:06:08.650 --> 00:06:12.040 align:middle line:84% he says, what we have is technology 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.010 align:middle line:84% that is the same everywhere but policies and cultures 00:06:15.010 --> 00:06:16.810 align:middle line:90% that are very different. 00:06:16.810 --> 00:06:19.656 align:middle line:84% And we are used to designing technology 00:06:19.656 --> 00:06:20.573 align:middle line:90% for specific cultures. 00:06:20.573 --> 00:06:24.620 align:middle line:84% We don't know how to design technology 00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:27.470 align:middle line:84% in many different cultures at once. 00:06:27.470 --> 00:06:32.290 align:middle line:84% So in conclusion, he says, part of predicting tussle 00:06:32.290 --> 00:06:33.940 align:middle line:84% is to think about the values that 00:06:33.940 --> 00:06:36.510 align:middle line:84% were embedded in the creation of the internet. 00:06:36.510 --> 00:06:40.750 align:middle line:84% The computer scientist who wrote the initial code and protocol 00:06:40.750 --> 00:06:44.440 align:middle line:84% did embed values, user empowerment, the ability 00:06:44.440 --> 00:06:48.890 align:middle line:84% to be anonymous, distrust of those in control, 00:06:48.890 --> 00:06:52.120 align:middle line:84% and the idea that what is not forbidden is permitted. 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.640 align:middle line:84% So whether we like it or not, they 00:06:54.640 --> 00:06:56.395 align:middle line:84% embedded those values in the way they 00:06:56.395 --> 00:06:57.970 align:middle line:90% wrote the protocol and code. 00:06:57.970 --> 00:06:59.920 align:middle line:84% So there's that in one set, and then there's 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:03.370 align:middle line:84% values that we expect, that users expect, 00:07:03.370 --> 00:07:07.330 align:middle line:84% freedom from attack, stability, freedom of speech, 00:07:07.330 --> 00:07:09.010 align:middle line:90% access to information. 00:07:09.010 --> 00:07:12.370 align:middle line:84% So those values that the creators embedded, 00:07:12.370 --> 00:07:14.860 align:middle line:84% the values that users expect are in conflict. 00:07:14.860 --> 00:07:19.670 align:middle line:84% And then there's all these other conflicts [INAUDIBLE] cultures. 00:07:19.670 --> 00:07:20.895 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Yes. 00:07:20.895 --> 00:07:22.520 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: It was very interesting. 00:07:22.520 --> 00:07:24.212 align:middle line:84% He was a great speaker, in general. 00:07:24.212 --> 00:07:25.887 align:middle line:90% 00:07:25.887 --> 00:07:28.345 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: There were some good questions from the floor. 00:07:28.345 --> 00:07:32.080 align:middle line:90% 00:07:32.080 --> 00:07:35.740 align:middle line:90% One person-- let me see. 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:40.780 align:middle line:84% How did he frame that question about happiness? 00:07:40.780 --> 00:07:44.080 align:middle line:84% GUEST SPEAKER: Someone asked if, in thinking 00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:47.950 align:middle line:84% about what the internet should enable 00:07:47.950 --> 00:07:51.310 align:middle line:84% or what its value should be, do you ever 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:54.820 align:middle line:84% consider one of its purposes to be enabling 00:07:54.820 --> 00:07:57.220 align:middle line:90% the pursuit of happiness? 00:07:57.220 --> 00:07:58.940 align:middle line:84% That's kind of what the person asked. 00:07:58.940 --> 00:08:01.700 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Yes, the way he asked 00:08:01.700 --> 00:08:12.220 align:middle line:84% it was a question in political science, 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:15.280 align:middle line:84% the notion here in the United States 00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:21.600 align:middle line:84% that one should be free to pursue happiness. 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:27.630 align:middle line:84% But we all know that that pursuit of happiness concept 00:08:27.630 --> 00:08:34.890 align:middle line:84% comes from the happiness principle in ethics, 00:08:34.890 --> 00:08:41.220 align:middle line:84% that you should be free to pursue happiness, all right. 00:08:41.220 --> 00:08:47.550 align:middle line:84% And I think Dave Clark took it the way that it 00:08:47.550 --> 00:08:52.080 align:middle line:84% was put as a question of political science 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.430 align:middle line:84% and didn't have much to say about it. 00:08:56.430 --> 00:08:59.070 align:middle line:84% I'm sure that I wouldn't have had anything to say about it. 00:08:59.070 --> 00:09:01.492 align:middle line:84% But the question, when you look at it 00:09:01.492 --> 00:09:03.450 align:middle line:84% from the standpoint of the happiness principle, 00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:07.650 align:middle line:84% now that is an intriguing question. 00:09:07.650 --> 00:09:09.420 align:middle line:84% Does the internet make people happy? 00:09:09.420 --> 00:09:16.650 align:middle line:90% 00:09:16.650 --> 00:09:20.210 align:middle line:84% I'll tell you one way that I think we 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:21.650 align:middle line:90% shouldn't answer the question. 00:09:21.650 --> 00:09:24.710 align:middle line:84% What would life be like if we didn't have it, all right? 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:27.590 align:middle line:84% The reason I say that that's not a good way 00:09:27.590 --> 00:09:31.120 align:middle line:84% to answer the question is that a drug addict 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:32.390 align:middle line:90% says the same thing. 00:09:32.390 --> 00:09:34.390 align:middle line:84% What would it be like if I didn't have my drugs? 00:09:34.390 --> 00:09:37.390 align:middle line:90% 00:09:37.390 --> 00:09:43.020 align:middle line:84% We might be addicted to this thing called the internet. 00:09:43.020 --> 00:09:45.380 align:middle line:84% And if we are addicted to it, then I 00:09:45.380 --> 00:09:47.180 align:middle line:84% don't think that that kind of happiness 00:09:47.180 --> 00:09:49.010 align:middle line:84% is what John Stuart Mill was talking about. 00:09:49.010 --> 00:09:52.230 align:middle line:90% 00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:59.018 align:middle line:84% OK, so let's not leave that as a rhetorical question. 00:09:59.018 --> 00:10:00.310 align:middle line:90% Let's pursue that for a second. 00:10:00.310 --> 00:10:02.950 align:middle line:84% Does the internet make anybody happy? 00:10:02.950 --> 00:10:07.165 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Well, that's a different question [INAUDIBLE] 00:10:07.165 --> 00:10:09.540 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: All right, how would you break it down then? 00:10:09.540 --> 00:10:13.170 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:10:13.170 --> 00:10:15.450 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: I'm asking, does it make people happy? 00:10:15.450 --> 00:10:15.990 align:middle line:90% Is it good? 00:10:15.990 --> 00:10:25.695 align:middle line:90% 00:10:25.695 --> 00:10:26.570 align:middle line:90% That's for everybody. 00:10:26.570 --> 00:10:27.230 align:middle line:90% Is it good? 00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:29.570 align:middle line:84% I mean, do we really like the internet? 00:10:29.570 --> 00:10:35.222 align:middle line:90% 00:10:35.222 --> 00:10:38.160 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] personally, sometimes. 00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:39.657 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:10:39.657 --> 00:10:42.651 align:middle line:84% Yes, very much, very [INAUDIBLE].. 00:10:42.651 --> 00:10:48.140 align:middle line:84% And sometimes it's very constructive. 00:10:48.140 --> 00:10:51.134 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:10:51.134 --> 00:11:06.610 align:middle line:90% 00:11:06.610 --> 00:11:08.650 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: OK, so you're saying 00:11:08.650 --> 00:11:11.307 align:middle line:84% that everything has a price tag attached to it, 00:11:11.307 --> 00:11:12.640 align:middle line:90% the price to pay for everything. 00:11:12.640 --> 00:11:14.985 align:middle line:84% And you're willing to pay the price for this thing. 00:11:14.985 --> 00:11:15.568 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:11:15.568 --> 00:11:19.220 align:middle line:90% 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:20.552 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Keep talking. 00:11:20.552 --> 00:11:22.010 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: At its best, the internet 00:11:22.010 --> 00:11:26.110 align:middle line:84% is a technology that fosters connection, [INAUDIBLE] 00:11:26.110 --> 00:11:28.900 align:middle line:90% that [INAUDIBLE]. 00:11:28.900 --> 00:11:32.160 align:middle line:90% 00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:33.390 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: So go ahead. 00:11:33.390 --> 00:11:37.360 align:middle line:90% 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:44.640 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But it does that without [INAUDIBLE] which 00:11:44.640 --> 00:11:49.300 align:middle line:84% is really [INAUDIBLE] for being [INAUDIBLE] to be 00:11:49.300 --> 00:11:55.430 align:middle line:84% able to connect one another without actually [INAUDIBLE] 00:11:55.430 --> 00:12:03.726 align:middle line:84% Even with [INAUDIBLE] I don't think we [INAUDIBLE] what 00:12:03.726 --> 00:12:04.718 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE]. 00:12:04.718 --> 00:12:09.200 align:middle line:90% 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.711 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: I have one advantage. 00:12:11.711 --> 00:12:14.480 align:middle line:90% I'm 63 years old. 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:17.290 align:middle line:84% I can remember when there was no internet, 00:12:17.290 --> 00:12:19.870 align:middle line:84% or if there was an internet, nobody knew about it 00:12:19.870 --> 00:12:23.020 align:middle line:90% except the specialists. 00:12:23.020 --> 00:12:27.480 align:middle line:84% And I can put myself in a position of asking myself, 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.510 align:middle line:84% if somebody brought an idea for the internet before me 00:12:30.510 --> 00:12:35.120 align:middle line:84% and showed me the price, would I buy it? 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:42.870 align:middle line:90% Would I have bought it in 1960? 00:12:42.870 --> 00:12:45.270 align:middle line:84% The only thing that I can think that would have given me 00:12:45.270 --> 00:12:48.890 align:middle line:84% pause about that whole thing was privacy, 00:12:48.890 --> 00:12:54.320 align:middle line:84% that a cost that I might have to pay for this whole thing 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.620 align:middle line:84% is that my Social Security number, everything is 00:12:57.620 --> 00:13:00.080 align:middle line:90% right out for anybody to use. 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.560 align:middle line:90% And I'm putting aside-- 00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:07.700 align:middle line:84% no, I'm not putting aside, but I'm not focusing on the fact 00:13:07.700 --> 00:13:11.665 align:middle line:84% that they can get in my bank account, transfer funds. 00:13:11.665 --> 00:13:13.040 align:middle line:84% I'm really talking about how they 00:13:13.040 --> 00:13:15.380 align:middle line:84% can do all sorts of other things with things 00:13:15.380 --> 00:13:18.590 align:middle line:84% that are very private to me and things 00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:20.510 align:middle line:84% that I have a legitimate right not to tell you 00:13:20.510 --> 00:13:22.700 align:middle line:90% or anybody else. 00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:25.140 align:middle line:90% Now, I'm still in 1960. 00:13:25.140 --> 00:13:29.220 align:middle line:84% I still have this thing in my mind before me what I wanted. 00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:33.820 align:middle line:84% Tell me all of the uses, all of the bad things. 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:36.321 align:middle line:84% I'm not so sure what I would say. 00:13:36.321 --> 00:13:38.530 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:38.530 --> 00:13:42.330 align:middle line:84% I an not so sure about what I would say. 00:13:42.330 --> 00:13:46.170 align:middle line:84% That being unsure, makes a statement. 00:13:46.170 --> 00:13:47.550 align:middle line:84% Given that I was in that position 00:13:47.550 --> 00:13:50.860 align:middle line:84% and had all of these big choices and understood them 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:53.500 align:middle line:84% like I do now, would I take this thing? 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:57.700 align:middle line:84% And I probably would have a big difficulty with it. 00:13:57.700 --> 00:14:00.290 align:middle line:84% I would say, well, thinking right now, 00:14:00.290 --> 00:14:02.210 align:middle line:84% I would probably say something like, 00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:04.780 align:middle line:84% well, let's see if we can't work out the privacy issue. 00:14:04.780 --> 00:14:06.480 align:middle line:90% Then bring it back. 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.980 align:middle line:84% Well, we might not be able to work that out for two or three 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:10.480 align:middle line:90% years, four or five years. 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:12.400 align:middle line:84% Well, hopefully, I'll still be alive. 00:14:12.400 --> 00:14:13.390 align:middle line:90% Bring it back then. 00:14:13.390 --> 00:14:16.330 align:middle line:84% I probably wouldn't want to do it without that issue solved. 00:14:16.330 --> 00:14:20.640 align:middle line:84% I probably wouldn't want to go into it. 00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:22.576 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: What David Clard was sort of saying 00:14:22.576 --> 00:14:25.247 align:middle line:90% is they didn't predict-- 00:14:25.247 --> 00:14:26.830 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: They never saw it coming. 00:14:26.830 --> 00:14:28.291 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:14:28.291 --> 00:14:37.560 align:middle line:84% No one knew that [INAUDIBLE] the main [INAUDIBLE] 00:14:37.560 --> 00:14:40.158 align:middle line:90% entity [INAUDIBLE]. 00:14:40.158 --> 00:14:42.450 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: All right then, let's ask another question 00:14:42.450 --> 00:14:43.140 align:middle line:90% for this class. 00:14:43.140 --> 00:14:45.990 align:middle line:90% 00:14:45.990 --> 00:14:48.600 align:middle line:84% Can we find where any human being did 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:53.898 align:middle line:84% anything wrong in terms of the internet or-- 00:14:53.898 --> 00:14:55.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Right, that's what didn't come up 00:14:55.690 --> 00:14:56.815 align:middle line:90% very much during this talk. 00:14:56.815 --> 00:15:00.450 align:middle line:84% The word "ethics" never came up [INAUDIBLE].. 00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:02.898 align:middle line:84% We talked about the social [INAUDIBLE].. 00:15:02.898 --> 00:15:06.730 align:middle line:90% 00:15:06.730 --> 00:15:11.390 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: OK, all right, any questions or-- 00:15:11.390 --> 00:15:11.890 align:middle line:90% go ahead. 00:15:11.890 --> 00:15:13.330 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: I interrupted you. 00:15:13.330 --> 00:15:18.103 align:middle line:84% You asked if we could find a [INAUDIBLE].. 00:15:18.103 --> 00:15:20.270 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: I remember now what I was going to say. 00:15:20.270 --> 00:15:22.160 align:middle line:84% What you had to say was more intriguing, 00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:25.910 align:middle line:84% but I was going to ask is the internet-- can we 00:15:25.910 --> 00:15:36.330 align:middle line:84% talk about the internet as being a moral agent? 00:15:36.330 --> 00:15:39.630 align:middle line:90% Is the internet itself bad? 00:15:39.630 --> 00:15:42.660 align:middle line:84% Now, the internet becomes a very interesting question 00:15:42.660 --> 00:15:45.630 align:middle line:84% about a technology being bad because the technology is 00:15:45.630 --> 00:15:50.210 align:middle line:84% activated by human beings all the time. 00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:51.635 align:middle line:84% It's what human beings are doing. 00:15:51.635 --> 00:15:54.150 align:middle line:90% 00:15:54.150 --> 00:15:58.560 align:middle line:84% But now, Dave Clark comes in and says 00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:02.010 align:middle line:84% that it's fair to think about the internet 00:16:02.010 --> 00:16:06.510 align:middle line:84% as an object that has a life of its own, that the rest of us 00:16:06.510 --> 00:16:09.500 align:middle line:84% do not control this thing totally. 00:16:09.500 --> 00:16:11.630 align:middle line:84% So can we think about it in moral terms? 00:16:11.630 --> 00:16:18.410 align:middle line:90% 00:16:18.410 --> 00:16:21.095 align:middle line:84% Let's leave that as a rhetorical question for right now. 00:16:21.095 --> 00:16:22.595 align:middle line:84% We'll come back at the end of class. 00:16:22.595 --> 00:16:30.970 align:middle line:90% 00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:34.980 align:middle line:84% OK, that question's still on the floor, 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:37.020 align:middle line:84% but I want to give a recapitulation of a talk 00:16:37.020 --> 00:16:40.320 align:middle line:84% that I gave yesterday, which I wrote for this class as well. 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.350 align:middle line:84% It's a recapitulation of the course. 00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:45.420 align:middle line:84% And the class that I gave yesterday 00:16:45.420 --> 00:16:48.570 align:middle line:84% was for this course called Managing 00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:53.640 align:middle line:84% Nuclear Technology out of the nuclear engineering program 00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:55.380 align:middle line:90% here. 00:16:55.380 --> 00:17:02.200 align:middle line:84% And it was a graduate class, but not everybody in the class 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:03.760 align:middle line:90% was a nuclear engineer. 00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:08.770 align:middle line:90% Some of them with TPP majors. 00:17:08.770 --> 00:17:10.960 align:middle line:84% Another thing that made the class very interesting 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:15.210 align:middle line:84% was that there were two students in there from France. 00:17:15.210 --> 00:17:17.400 align:middle line:84% That was interesting to me because France 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.935 align:middle line:84% has embraced nuclear power, whereas the United States has 00:17:20.935 --> 00:17:21.810 align:middle line:90% had problems with it. 00:17:21.810 --> 00:17:32.150 align:middle line:90% 00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:38.690 align:middle line:84% So the outline of the talk is as follows. 00:17:38.690 --> 00:17:42.050 align:middle line:84% We want to talk about, what were the times like? 00:17:42.050 --> 00:17:45.040 align:middle line:84% And I'm talking about mainly in the United States 00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:46.540 align:middle line:84% but not because the United States is 00:17:46.540 --> 00:17:48.400 align:middle line:84% more important than anything else 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.730 align:middle line:84% but because we're here in the United States. 00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:57.010 align:middle line:84% And that brought about what we call the STS movement, science, 00:17:57.010 --> 00:17:58.420 align:middle line:90% technology, and society. 00:17:58.420 --> 00:18:02.030 align:middle line:84% You know we have an STS department here. 00:18:02.030 --> 00:18:07.880 align:middle line:84% Our STS Department does have a focus and, not 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:09.410 align:middle line:84% to the exclusion of everything else, 00:18:09.410 --> 00:18:14.090 align:middle line:84% but it focuses on history of technology. 00:18:14.090 --> 00:18:16.930 align:middle line:90% 00:18:16.930 --> 00:18:20.500 align:middle line:84% But STS in the beginning was a response 00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:24.490 align:middle line:84% to many issues in the American life, 00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:27.970 align:middle line:84% and I'll talk about those, which I call the times. 00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:38.470 align:middle line:84% And out of it came an engagement of two learned disciplines. 00:18:38.470 --> 00:18:40.180 align:middle line:84% The engagements that we're talking about 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:45.770 align:middle line:84% mostly are going to be with ethics and with engineering, 00:18:45.770 --> 00:18:50.120 align:middle line:84% which gives rise to engineering ethics. 00:18:50.120 --> 00:18:53.900 align:middle line:84% And we'll look at a particular case study of TMI, which 00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:56.120 align:middle line:90% is Three Mile Island nuclear-- 00:18:56.120 --> 00:18:59.060 align:middle line:90% they call it an accident-- 00:18:59.060 --> 00:19:01.040 align:middle line:90% that's the official term-- 00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:01.952 align:middle line:90% 1979. 00:19:01.952 --> 00:19:03.410 align:middle line:84% We'll look at a case study of that. 00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:05.990 align:middle line:84% We did look at it a little bit in class. 00:19:05.990 --> 00:19:08.780 align:middle line:84% We read a little bit about that, but I 00:19:08.780 --> 00:19:11.390 align:middle line:84% would like to go a little bit deeper into it today. 00:19:11.390 --> 00:19:15.280 align:middle line:84% And then let's talk about whether or not 00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:19.460 align:middle line:84% we're making a world for ourselves that we want. 00:19:19.460 --> 00:19:22.880 align:middle line:90% 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.600 align:middle line:84% And I'm asking the question about-- 00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:29.200 align:middle line:84% or do we really have a brave new world and if that's good. 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.020 align:middle line:84% If you read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, that was not 00:19:32.020 --> 00:19:34.900 align:middle line:84% a place that we would really want, 00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:39.160 align:middle line:84% human beings grown in hatcheries, they call them. 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:41.620 align:middle line:84% OK, but nevertheless, this is a good term 00:19:41.620 --> 00:19:42.550 align:middle line:90% to raise the question. 00:19:42.550 --> 00:19:45.192 align:middle line:90% 00:19:45.192 --> 00:19:46.150 align:middle line:90% So this is the outline. 00:19:46.150 --> 00:19:49.010 align:middle line:84% These are the main sections of this talk. 00:19:49.010 --> 00:19:51.710 align:middle line:84% And when it comes to engineering ethics, 00:19:51.710 --> 00:19:57.380 align:middle line:84% there were a number of issues that motivated the whole thing. 00:19:57.380 --> 00:20:01.430 align:middle line:84% One was in 1974, Spiro T Agnew, I 00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:04.670 align:middle line:90% was about to say, as you recall. 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:09.150 align:middle line:84% Spiro T Agnew was vice president of the United States. 00:20:09.150 --> 00:20:16.050 align:middle line:84% He was accused and resigned as a result of the scandal. 00:20:16.050 --> 00:20:19.410 align:middle line:84% Those are two terms of art for this particular case, 00:20:19.410 --> 00:20:23.630 align:middle line:84% an accusation and scandal, not conviction. 00:20:23.630 --> 00:20:31.170 align:middle line:84% OK, he was accused of taking bribes from engineers, 00:20:31.170 --> 00:20:33.510 align:middle line:84% and the scandal that broke out over it 00:20:33.510 --> 00:20:37.740 align:middle line:84% prompted his resignation and gave motivation 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:39.555 align:middle line:84% for this thing called engineering ethics. 00:20:39.555 --> 00:20:42.480 align:middle line:90% 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:50.820 align:middle line:84% The Challenger accident was one that we have looked at, 00:20:50.820 --> 00:20:54.270 align:middle line:84% and in the Challenger accident we 00:20:54.270 --> 00:20:57.760 align:middle line:84% looked at the issue of whistle-blowing. 00:20:57.760 --> 00:21:01.790 align:middle line:84% We looked at the question of what engineering really is. 00:21:01.790 --> 00:21:04.850 align:middle line:84% Is engineering inherently lethal? 00:21:04.850 --> 00:21:08.470 align:middle line:84% And this particular one was interesting to us 00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:10.450 align:middle line:84% from a number of reasons but not the least 00:21:10.450 --> 00:21:14.080 align:middle line:84% of which was that this was the first massive flight 00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:19.840 align:middle line:84% with a shuttle that had a person on board who was neither 00:21:19.840 --> 00:21:25.690 align:middle line:84% an employee of NASA nor of the military, which 00:21:25.690 --> 00:21:29.440 align:middle line:84% meant that that person was not an expert on this. 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.410 align:middle line:84% That was McAuliffe, who was a schoolteacher. 00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:37.240 align:middle line:84% And they were trying to make the case that space travel could 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.510 align:middle line:84% be for ordinary people just like getting on an airplane. 00:21:40.510 --> 00:21:43.750 align:middle line:84% It's for ordinary people now, all right? 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:49.840 align:middle line:84% Bhopal introduced the issue of safety standards 00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:55.480 align:middle line:84% across cultures, that in the United States we had-- 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.700 align:middle line:84% Union Carbide had some safety standards 00:21:57.700 --> 00:22:00.280 align:middle line:90% for its chemical plants. 00:22:00.280 --> 00:22:01.300 align:middle line:90% They went to India. 00:22:01.300 --> 00:22:04.720 align:middle line:90% There were different standards. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.150 align:middle line:84% An accident occurred, killed 3,000 people, 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:08.620 align:middle line:90% children included. 00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:12.340 align:middle line:84% And the question is, as you just raised the question 00:22:12.340 --> 00:22:17.400 align:middle line:84% about Google in China, what do we do about ethical standards? 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:18.990 align:middle line:84% I'm not talking about legal standards, 00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:25.340 align:middle line:84% ethical standards across cultures raises that issue. 00:22:25.340 --> 00:22:27.560 align:middle line:84% And Three Mile Island is something 00:22:27.560 --> 00:22:30.290 align:middle line:84% I talk about in a little bit of detail 00:22:30.290 --> 00:22:33.680 align:middle line:84% because we haven't talked about it in detail in the class yet. 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.930 align:middle line:90% 00:22:37.930 --> 00:22:40.030 align:middle line:84% The STS movement did not include-- 00:22:40.030 --> 00:22:42.520 align:middle line:84% was not restricted to engineering ethics. 00:22:42.520 --> 00:22:44.800 align:middle line:84% There's a discipline called environmental ethics. 00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:49.290 align:middle line:90% 00:22:49.290 --> 00:22:51.690 align:middle line:84% There's a discipline-- and when I say discipline, 00:22:51.690 --> 00:23:00.520 align:middle line:84% I'm talking about a world view, a way of looking at the world-- 00:23:00.520 --> 00:23:01.960 align:middle line:84% we talked about that already-- how 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:05.110 align:middle line:84% it is that a scientist looks at the world in one way, 00:23:05.110 --> 00:23:08.060 align:middle line:84% an engineer can look at the world in another way. 00:23:08.060 --> 00:23:12.730 align:middle line:84% That it has a body of learning, that it 00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:16.570 align:middle line:84% has a community of scholars that cultivate 00:23:16.570 --> 00:23:19.240 align:middle line:84% that cultivates that body of learning, 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:24.120 align:middle line:84% and university degree-granting programs. 00:23:24.120 --> 00:23:28.460 align:middle line:84% So if you do not get a degree in business ethics, 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:33.050 align:middle line:84% you can certainly get a degree in STS, even the PhD, 00:23:33.050 --> 00:23:38.570 align:middle line:84% with a major in engineering ethics or business ethics. 00:23:38.570 --> 00:23:40.130 align:middle line:84% That's what my master's degree is. 00:23:40.130 --> 00:23:42.350 align:middle line:90% My master's degree is in STS. 00:23:42.350 --> 00:23:46.140 align:middle line:84% The major is in engineering ethics. 00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:52.190 align:middle line:84% Bioethics, medical ethics, academic ethics. 00:23:52.190 --> 00:23:54.770 align:middle line:84% In the class yesterday, this issue 00:23:54.770 --> 00:23:57.330 align:middle line:90% here raised some questions. 00:23:57.330 --> 00:23:59.280 align:middle line:84% The students wanted to know how-- 00:23:59.280 --> 00:24:03.610 align:middle line:84% the student phrased the question, what ethical problems 00:24:03.610 --> 00:24:04.948 align:middle line:90% do faculty have? 00:24:04.948 --> 00:24:11.320 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLES] I said, well, even if we put aside questions that-- 00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:15.260 align:middle line:84% ethical issues that faculty have with students, 00:24:15.260 --> 00:24:17.840 align:middle line:84% we have a lot of ethical issues among ourselves. 00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:19.400 align:middle line:90% And the biggest one probably-- 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:20.775 align:middle line:84% I don't know what you would think 00:24:20.775 --> 00:24:26.060 align:middle line:84% about it, our faculty members here, but it's plagiarism. 00:24:26.060 --> 00:24:28.970 align:middle line:84% That is the nightmare for us, for one faculty member 00:24:28.970 --> 00:24:31.910 align:middle line:90% to plagiarize another one. 00:24:31.910 --> 00:24:37.430 align:middle line:84% And that becomes a matter of irritation for students too, 00:24:37.430 --> 00:24:42.570 align:middle line:84% but I think the big issue for students in plagiarism 00:24:42.570 --> 00:24:46.170 align:middle line:84% is after the plagiarism has occurred. 00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:47.760 align:middle line:84% Actually, it's not so much plagiarism. 00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:52.610 align:middle line:84% It's falsification of data because you get this paper. 00:24:52.610 --> 00:24:55.750 align:middle line:84% You're going to build your master's thesis on this paper. 00:24:55.750 --> 00:24:58.690 align:middle line:84% And just before you go in for your defense, 00:24:58.690 --> 00:25:00.415 align:middle line:84% you find out that the data is corrupt. 00:25:00.415 --> 00:25:02.530 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:25:02.530 --> 00:25:05.020 align:middle line:84% What would you do in a situation-- the committee is 00:25:05.020 --> 00:25:08.385 align:middle line:84% sitting there saying, well look, we know it wasn't your fault, 00:25:08.385 --> 00:25:13.220 align:middle line:84% but we can't pass this thing, all right? 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:15.880 align:middle line:90% So that can be pretty bad. 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:20.320 align:middle line:90% And TPP, part of STS movement. 00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.470 align:middle line:90% 00:25:23.470 --> 00:25:29.650 align:middle line:84% This picture up here, I think, best describes what the people, 00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:34.120 align:middle line:84% the scholars in the STS movement-- 00:25:34.120 --> 00:25:39.100 align:middle line:84% how we looked at ourselves in relationship 00:25:39.100 --> 00:25:41.952 align:middle line:84% to big business and big government. 00:25:41.952 --> 00:25:48.700 align:middle line:90% 00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:54.910 align:middle line:84% And there were big hopes back in those days for us. 00:25:54.910 --> 00:25:55.990 align:middle line:90% I say us. 00:25:55.990 --> 00:25:58.360 align:middle line:84% I was one of the young people in those-- 00:25:58.360 --> 00:26:01.180 align:middle line:84% I was just being brought along and learning. 00:26:01.180 --> 00:26:03.820 align:middle line:90% This is 1972, '73. 00:26:03.820 --> 00:26:06.560 align:middle line:84% I was just being brought up by these people. 00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:09.640 align:middle line:84% They were cultivating me, and most of them 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:13.920 align:middle line:84% were philosophers some were-- there 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.380 align:middle line:90% were some engineers involved. 00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:19.200 align:middle line:84% And one of the big hopes, as we will 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:23.370 align:middle line:84% see in just a minute, for the philosophers was that this was 00:26:23.370 --> 00:26:27.430 align:middle line:84% now an opportunity, they thought, 00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:31.120 align:middle line:84% to put their names in the history of philosophy 00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:34.390 align:middle line:84% along with Aristotle and Plato and other people 00:26:34.390 --> 00:26:36.460 align:middle line:84% because now we have the opportunity 00:26:36.460 --> 00:26:39.580 align:middle line:90% to create a new ethic. 00:26:39.580 --> 00:26:41.530 align:middle line:84% So now we can write things and be 00:26:41.530 --> 00:26:43.870 align:middle line:90% equated with the Immanuel Kant. 00:26:43.870 --> 00:26:47.650 align:middle line:84% And we can be equated with John Stuart Mill. 00:26:47.650 --> 00:26:52.000 align:middle line:84% And so what I'm trying to describe to you, 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:55.330 align:middle line:84% the nice word for it is euphoria. 00:26:55.330 --> 00:27:01.800 align:middle line:90% 00:27:01.800 --> 00:27:11.670 align:middle line:84% The correct word for it, the correct word for it is high. 00:27:11.670 --> 00:27:17.540 align:middle line:84% We were all high on this whole notion of starting-- 00:27:17.540 --> 00:27:19.400 align:middle line:84% creating something that we said was 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:25.190 align:middle line:84% going to be a learned discipline and getting our names 00:27:25.190 --> 00:27:29.293 align:middle line:84% in the history book with the greats. 00:27:29.293 --> 00:27:30.210 align:middle line:90% Not all that happened. 00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:32.575 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:27:32.575 --> 00:27:38.830 align:middle line:90% 00:27:38.830 --> 00:27:41.650 align:middle line:84% One of our hopes-- let's talk about what some of those hopes 00:27:41.650 --> 00:27:44.280 align:middle line:90% were. 00:27:44.280 --> 00:27:50.130 align:middle line:84% One hope was that we could borrow-- 00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:53.460 align:middle line:90% as we have discussed in class-- 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:58.860 align:middle line:84% that we can borrow from United States law, which 00:27:58.860 --> 00:28:02.880 align:middle line:84% provides that an organization, particularly a corporation, 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.970 align:middle line:84% has personhood in law, can commit a crime, 00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:08.430 align:middle line:84% and can be punished for the crime independently 00:28:08.430 --> 00:28:11.330 align:middle line:84% of the people in the organization. 00:28:11.330 --> 00:28:13.850 align:middle line:84% So the hope was that maybe we could 00:28:13.850 --> 00:28:19.730 align:middle line:84% talk about an organization having personhood in morality 00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:23.825 align:middle line:84% and that a corporation could be bad or good. 00:28:23.825 --> 00:28:26.780 align:middle line:90% 00:28:26.780 --> 00:28:30.740 align:middle line:84% And we wanted to be able to write a scholarship on that. 00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:37.380 align:middle line:84% A paper came out by a man named John Ladd, 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:45.150 align:middle line:84% who is a friend of mine now, who said that corporations cannot 00:28:45.150 --> 00:28:50.410 align:middle line:84% be moral agents because there is no way that you can assign 00:28:50.410 --> 00:28:56.620 align:middle line:84% to them feelings, moral impulses. 00:28:56.620 --> 00:28:59.460 align:middle line:90% 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:02.826 align:middle line:84% And a corporation cannot care about you. 00:29:02.826 --> 00:29:05.720 align:middle line:84% So you cannot hold it responsible. 00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:12.370 align:middle line:84% It has a will, but it does not have an affect. 00:29:12.370 --> 00:29:15.250 align:middle line:84% Well, that killed-- dashed the hopes a lot 00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:17.900 align:middle line:90% of people for a long time. 00:29:17.900 --> 00:29:23.920 align:middle line:84% But we had quite a renowned visitor in class, what? 00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:28.180 align:middle line:84% About two weeks ago, a week or so ago, 00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:33.580 align:middle line:84% who affirmed what many people affirm and that is that we just 00:29:33.580 --> 00:29:39.050 align:middle line:84% cannot throw away our sentiment that organizations, 00:29:39.050 --> 00:29:41.460 align:middle line:90% some of them, do-- 00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:45.780 align:middle line:84% are moral agents no matter what we say about it, 00:29:45.780 --> 00:29:53.333 align:middle line:84% that there's something still dissatisfying to us to leave 00:29:53.333 --> 00:29:54.500 align:middle line:90% them out of the moral space. 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:57.850 align:middle line:90% 00:29:57.850 --> 00:30:00.100 align:middle line:90% There were some other hopes. 00:30:00.100 --> 00:30:05.070 align:middle line:90% 00:30:05.070 --> 00:30:09.910 align:middle line:84% Now, we talked about this painting, Rafael's painting 00:30:09.910 --> 00:30:12.640 align:middle line:90% in the Vatican. 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:17.440 align:middle line:84% We talked about how he wanted to characterize 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:20.800 align:middle line:90% Greek philosophers. 00:30:20.800 --> 00:30:26.010 align:middle line:84% And we talked about how it's in the Vatican in these Roman 00:30:26.010 --> 00:30:27.750 align:middle line:90% vaulted ceiling-- 00:30:27.750 --> 00:30:32.850 align:middle line:84% under these Roman vaulted ceilings to show that in 00:30:32.850 --> 00:30:36.660 align:middle line:90% 1509, 1510, up to 1513. 00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:39.450 align:middle line:84% This is the same time where Michelangelo 00:30:39.450 --> 00:30:43.680 align:middle line:84% was painting the Sistine Chapel, same time, same place, 00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:45.570 align:middle line:90% different buildings-- 00:30:45.570 --> 00:30:51.120 align:middle line:84% that there was a place for Greek thought in the Western world. 00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:58.140 align:middle line:84% And out of this thought we get two traditions in ethics. 00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:01.710 align:middle line:90% 00:31:01.710 --> 00:31:07.280 align:middle line:84% One of them comes from Aristotle. 00:31:07.280 --> 00:31:27.490 align:middle line:84% And Aristotle's tradition is a tradition 00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:36.990 align:middle line:84% that approaches ethics from a rational point of view. 00:31:36.990 --> 00:31:43.470 align:middle line:84% That is to say, we can use reason sometimes informed 00:31:43.470 --> 00:31:48.380 align:middle line:84% by facts to decide right and wrong action, 00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:49.400 align:middle line:90% good and bad behavior. 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.350 align:middle line:90% 00:31:52.350 --> 00:32:02.820 align:middle line:84% That's the Aristotelian tradition, 00:32:02.820 --> 00:32:07.710 align:middle line:84% and that is based, as I said, on reason. 00:32:07.710 --> 00:32:15.420 align:middle line:84% And out of that tradition we get two other traditions. 00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:32.040 align:middle line:84% One is that an ethical problem can be decided purely on logic. 00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:38.750 align:middle line:84% And we have thanks to Immanuel Kant 00:32:38.750 --> 00:32:42.890 align:middle line:90% for giving us that approach. 00:32:42.890 --> 00:32:48.800 align:middle line:84% That is to say that an act can be determined right or wrong 00:32:48.800 --> 00:32:53.540 align:middle line:84% or a thing can be determined good or bad 00:32:53.540 --> 00:32:57.480 align:middle line:90% based on principles. 00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:03.330 align:middle line:84% And for him, first principles were principals of logic, 00:33:03.330 --> 00:33:06.750 align:middle line:84% and that gives us one great tradition 00:33:06.750 --> 00:33:11.440 align:middle line:90% that still holds with us today. 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:19.740 align:middle line:84% The other one is empirical, and it 00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:25.020 align:middle line:84% says that an action can be judged good or bad, right 00:33:25.020 --> 00:33:32.890 align:middle line:84% or wrong depending on the happiness that it tends 00:33:32.890 --> 00:33:36.700 align:middle line:84% to either give people or take from people 00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:39.160 align:middle line:90% as a result of the action. 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:41.050 align:middle line:90% So it's factual. 00:33:41.050 --> 00:33:48.070 align:middle line:84% And we have probably John Stuart Mill, not who 00:33:48.070 --> 00:33:50.620 align:middle line:84% originated this point of view but, 00:33:50.620 --> 00:33:54.790 align:middle line:84% who pretty much did more than anybody else, I think, 00:33:54.790 --> 00:33:56.290 align:middle line:90% to perfect it. 00:33:56.290 --> 00:33:58.960 align:middle line:84% Frankly, I think that Jeremy Bentham 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:04.400 align:middle line:84% is the person that made the greatest 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.580 align:middle line:84% contribution because he saw it as a solution 00:34:07.580 --> 00:34:09.122 align:middle line:90% to a political problem. 00:34:09.122 --> 00:34:10.580 align:middle line:84% And not so much a political problem 00:34:10.580 --> 00:34:11.997 align:middle line:84% but a problem of political science 00:34:11.997 --> 00:34:17.449 align:middle line:84% that he was trying to really organize thinking about how 00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:19.400 align:middle line:90% to build a British society. 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:23.479 align:middle line:84% But nevertheless, Mill worked out all of the kinks. 00:34:23.479 --> 00:34:24.979 align:middle line:84% And when I say all of the kinks, you 00:34:24.979 --> 00:34:26.940 align:middle line:84% know what I mean by that, the major ones. 00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:29.550 align:middle line:84% We can still write a dissertation on this stuff, 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:32.960 align:middle line:84% but he's the one that's remembered mostly for that. 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:38.150 align:middle line:90% 00:34:38.150 --> 00:34:43.460 align:middle line:84% There is another tradition that we 00:34:43.460 --> 00:34:50.969 align:middle line:84% have insofar as Greek antiquity is concerned 00:34:50.969 --> 00:34:54.225 align:middle line:90% that is given to us by Plato. 00:34:54.225 --> 00:35:01.260 align:middle line:90% 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:07.260 align:middle line:84% And Plato's tradition is that really 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:10.140 align:middle line:84% what is good and bad, what is right and wrong 00:35:10.140 --> 00:35:15.150 align:middle line:90% is determined by character. 00:35:15.150 --> 00:35:19.470 align:middle line:90% 00:35:19.470 --> 00:35:22.200 align:middle line:84% There are certain people who are good people. 00:35:22.200 --> 00:35:25.560 align:middle line:84% There are certain people, he would say, are bad people. 00:35:25.560 --> 00:35:28.590 align:middle line:84% And what he would say makes the difference 00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:35.190 align:middle line:84% between a good person, a bad person, and an ordinary person 00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:37.005 align:middle line:84% or what he calls the possession of virtues. 00:35:37.005 --> 00:35:42.660 align:middle line:90% 00:35:42.660 --> 00:35:47.580 align:middle line:84% And he can articulate those virtues, 00:35:47.580 --> 00:35:50.160 align:middle line:84% which means that, as we come into different cultures, 00:35:50.160 --> 00:35:51.660 align:middle line:84% we can articulate different virtues. 00:35:51.660 --> 00:35:53.760 align:middle line:84% But nevertheless, it's the notion 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.370 align:middle line:84% that we're talking about good character. 00:35:56.370 --> 00:36:01.410 align:middle line:84% And he got his virtues from the kind of society 00:36:01.410 --> 00:36:05.310 align:middle line:84% that he came from, and that society was a warrior society, 00:36:05.310 --> 00:36:06.070 align:middle line:90% basically. 00:36:06.070 --> 00:36:09.750 align:middle line:84% And so good virtues meant good warrior virtues, 00:36:09.750 --> 00:36:11.410 align:middle line:90% heroic virtues. 00:36:11.410 --> 00:36:13.970 align:middle line:90% 00:36:13.970 --> 00:36:16.206 align:middle line:84% Now, out of that in the United States-- 00:36:16.206 --> 00:36:18.962 align:middle line:90% 00:36:18.962 --> 00:36:21.170 align:middle line:84% and here's a point that we have not covered in class, 00:36:21.170 --> 00:36:25.550 align:middle line:84% but it's an opportunity for me to cover to cover it in class. 00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:36.770 align:middle line:90% In the United States, since-- 00:36:36.770 --> 00:36:38.265 align:middle line:90% let me put down a number. 00:36:38.265 --> 00:36:39.890 align:middle line:84% Tell me if you can correct this number. 00:36:39.890 --> 00:36:48.620 align:middle line:90% 00:36:48.620 --> 00:36:53.060 align:middle line:84% In the United States, since about 1650, 00:36:53.060 --> 00:37:01.170 align:middle line:84% there was in the universities a concept called 00:37:01.170 --> 00:37:02.610 align:middle line:90% classical education. 00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:04.080 align:middle line:90% Do what number I'm looking for? 00:37:04.080 --> 00:37:08.380 align:middle line:90% 00:37:08.380 --> 00:37:11.340 align:middle line:84% When the first university in the United States was founded. 00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:13.950 align:middle line:84% Well, first of all, do you know which university that was? 00:37:13.950 --> 00:37:17.500 align:middle line:90% 00:37:17.500 --> 00:37:21.130 align:middle line:84% Harvard, yeah, right down the street. 00:37:21.130 --> 00:37:23.670 align:middle line:90% 00:37:23.670 --> 00:37:25.720 align:middle line:90% It was 16 something. 00:37:25.720 --> 00:37:26.770 align:middle line:90% Remember? 00:37:26.770 --> 00:37:29.075 align:middle line:84% I don't remember the exact date, but it was after-- 00:37:29.075 --> 00:37:29.950 align:middle line:90% I remember this much. 00:37:29.950 --> 00:37:32.440 align:middle line:84% It was after 1620 when the pilgrims landed. 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:36.940 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLES] And I remember it was 16 something, OK? 00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:46.250 align:middle line:84% Now, classical education was education for the clergy 00:37:46.250 --> 00:37:49.430 align:middle line:90% and for the aristocratic class. 00:37:49.430 --> 00:37:56.080 align:middle line:90% 00:37:56.080 --> 00:38:01.890 align:middle line:84% And the idea was that what a person needed from a college 00:38:01.890 --> 00:38:05.190 align:middle line:84% education, what these people needed from a college education 00:38:05.190 --> 00:38:16.040 align:middle line:84% was good character and that the virtues of good character 00:38:16.040 --> 00:38:24.160 align:middle line:84% were spelled out in Christian religion, 00:38:24.160 --> 00:38:28.830 align:middle line:84% and that the textbooks, the curriculum 00:38:28.830 --> 00:38:31.888 align:middle line:90% was taken from Greek antiquity. 00:38:31.888 --> 00:38:35.380 align:middle line:90% 00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:41.050 align:middle line:84% Trivium quadrivium, classical studies in philosophy, 00:38:41.050 --> 00:39:00.198 align:middle line:84% mathematics, science, rhetoric, dialectic, and literature. 00:39:00.198 --> 00:39:12.150 align:middle line:90% 00:39:12.150 --> 00:39:14.730 align:middle line:84% Now, I have some numbers I've committed to memory. 00:39:14.730 --> 00:39:18.937 align:middle line:84% I trust my memory on these numbers, 00:39:18.937 --> 00:39:20.520 align:middle line:84% but that doesn't mean I'm going to ask 00:39:20.520 --> 00:39:22.200 align:middle line:90% you to trust these numbers. 00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:24.438 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLES] So as a matter of fact, 00:39:24.438 --> 00:39:25.980 align:middle line:84% I'm going to ask you to look them up, 00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:28.063 align:middle line:84% but I have some other figures, some other numbers. 00:39:28.063 --> 00:39:39.910 align:middle line:90% 00:39:39.910 --> 00:39:48.310 align:middle line:84% Before the Civil War, before 1861, 00:39:48.310 --> 00:39:50.815 align:middle line:84% there were 350 universities in the United States. 00:39:50.815 --> 00:39:54.450 align:middle line:90% 00:39:54.450 --> 00:39:56.940 align:middle line:90% It got up to about 350. 00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:01.110 align:middle line:84% Now, some had closed their doors. 00:40:01.110 --> 00:40:03.930 align:middle line:84% There were new ones that came in, but there were about 350 00:40:03.930 --> 00:40:04.430 align:middle line:90% of them. 00:40:04.430 --> 00:40:10.480 align:middle line:90% 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:15.360 align:middle line:84% 11 out of 12 of those universities 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.210 align:middle line:84% over the entire periods of their existence 00:40:18.210 --> 00:40:24.380 align:middle line:84% up until the Civil War, 11 out of 12 presidents 00:40:24.380 --> 00:40:26.482 align:middle line:90% were clergymen. 00:40:26.482 --> 00:40:31.310 align:middle line:90% 00:40:31.310 --> 00:40:36.020 align:middle line:84% And many of the ones who were not clergy 00:40:36.020 --> 00:40:39.320 align:middle line:84% had studied for the ministry but decided either to go to law 00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:43.025 align:middle line:90% or otherwise not get ordained. 00:40:43.025 --> 00:40:48.960 align:middle line:90% 00:40:48.960 --> 00:41:01.810 align:middle line:84% In 1833, a man by the name of John Quincy, not to be confused 00:41:01.810 --> 00:41:04.810 align:middle line:84% with John Quincy Adams, but I think 00:41:04.810 --> 00:41:07.420 align:middle line:84% was a relative of John Quincy Adams, 00:41:07.420 --> 00:41:12.280 align:middle line:84% a man by the name of John Quincy became president of Harvard. 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.160 align:middle line:90% 00:41:16.160 --> 00:41:21.360 align:middle line:84% And John Quincy said his program is to get rid 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:22.860 align:middle line:90% of classical education. 00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:25.500 align:middle line:90% 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:28.020 align:middle line:90% He was not a clergyman. 00:41:28.020 --> 00:41:29.760 align:middle line:84% He was one of the first clergyman 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.980 align:middle line:84% to become president of a university in the United 00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:35.640 align:middle line:84% States, who was not a clergyman at all, 00:41:35.640 --> 00:41:40.090 align:middle line:84% I mean, in any of his training, OK? 00:41:40.090 --> 00:41:42.820 align:middle line:84% Now, why did he want to get rid of classical education, 00:41:42.820 --> 00:41:47.980 align:middle line:84% and what did he want to replace it with, and why? 00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:52.000 align:middle line:84% If you don't know, your speculation 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.820 align:middle line:84% is invited because you will probably be right. 00:41:56.820 --> 00:42:00.940 align:middle line:90% We're talking about 1833. 00:42:00.940 --> 00:42:03.190 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Very beginning of the Industrial Revolution. 00:42:03.190 --> 00:42:05.565 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Very beginning of the Industrial Revolution. 00:42:05.565 --> 00:42:08.310 align:middle line:90% 00:42:08.310 --> 00:42:14.930 align:middle line:84% Is classical education going to help you make a plant? 00:42:14.930 --> 00:42:15.430 align:middle line:90% No. 00:42:15.430 --> 00:42:17.753 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:42:17.753 --> 00:42:19.170 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: At least in his mind. 00:42:19.170 --> 00:42:20.981 align:middle line:84% And apparently, he was not alone. 00:42:20.981 --> 00:42:21.606 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:42:21.606 --> 00:42:23.430 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:42:23.430 --> 00:42:27.190 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: So what would get the United States 00:42:27.190 --> 00:42:31.060 align:middle line:84% into the Industrial Revolution, which had already started 00:42:31.060 --> 00:42:33.680 align:middle line:90% in Britain at that time? 00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:35.350 align:middle line:84% When did it get on the continent? 00:42:35.350 --> 00:42:38.604 align:middle line:90% Before us, I'm sure. 00:42:38.604 --> 00:42:42.640 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] before [INAUDIBLE].. 00:42:42.640 --> 00:42:45.700 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Around that time, turned it, OK. 00:42:45.700 --> 00:42:49.920 align:middle line:84% John Quincy-- now, here's where you have to-- 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.500 align:middle line:84% when you read any of this stuff, you 00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:56.970 align:middle line:84% have to read between the lines on some of the words they use. 00:42:56.970 --> 00:43:03.337 align:middle line:84% John Quincy said science and mathematics, OK? 00:43:03.337 --> 00:43:05.670 align:middle line:84% So you can say, well, science and mathematics is already 00:43:05.670 --> 00:43:07.140 align:middle line:90% here. 00:43:07.140 --> 00:43:10.020 align:middle line:84% John Quincy meant applied science 00:43:10.020 --> 00:43:11.980 align:middle line:90% and applied mathematics. 00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:16.865 align:middle line:84% And he did not use the word engineering at the beginning, 00:43:16.865 --> 00:43:18.240 align:middle line:84% but that's who these people were. 00:43:18.240 --> 00:43:21.330 align:middle line:84% They were engineers, applied scientists, 00:43:21.330 --> 00:43:22.530 align:middle line:90% and applied mathematicians. 00:43:22.530 --> 00:43:25.640 align:middle line:84% That's what he thought we needed. 00:43:25.640 --> 00:43:31.060 align:middle line:84% So a struggle ensued at that point 00:43:31.060 --> 00:43:36.400 align:middle line:84% that has not been resolved in the United States. 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:43.790 align:middle line:84% John Quincy introduced a new curriculum that 00:43:43.790 --> 00:43:49.543 align:middle line:90% got a name 100 years later, OK? 00:43:49.543 --> 00:43:51.085 align:middle line:84% I'll tell you what the name of it is. 00:43:51.085 --> 00:44:03.706 align:middle line:90% 00:44:03.706 --> 00:44:04.700 align:middle line:90% Pragmatism. 00:44:04.700 --> 00:44:08.190 align:middle line:90% 00:44:08.190 --> 00:44:09.830 align:middle line:90% So it went by different names. 00:44:09.830 --> 00:44:13.650 align:middle line:84% Still, you can talk about the alternative 00:44:13.650 --> 00:44:16.170 align:middle line:84% to classical education being pragmatic. 00:44:16.170 --> 00:44:19.210 align:middle line:90% 00:44:19.210 --> 00:44:21.850 align:middle line:84% Scholars of education have different names, 00:44:21.850 --> 00:44:23.320 align:middle line:84% but it's good for us in this class 00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:25.420 align:middle line:84% to use the philosophical name because we can now 00:44:25.420 --> 00:44:35.980 align:middle line:84% associate that with a person, John Dewey, OK? 00:44:35.980 --> 00:44:38.960 align:middle line:84% Now, what was the nature of this? 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.480 align:middle line:84% Why do you think people would do battle 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:49.910 align:middle line:84% over replacing the curriculum, replacing classical education? 00:44:49.910 --> 00:44:51.600 align:middle line:84% And let's think of all of the reasons. , 00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:57.160 align:middle line:84% Well one of them starts out being that the religious 00:44:57.160 --> 00:44:59.160 align:middle line:84% institutions had funded a whole lot of colleges. 00:44:59.160 --> 00:45:02.727 align:middle line:90% 00:45:02.727 --> 00:45:05.090 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:45:05.090 --> 00:45:10.100 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Yes, and if not anti-religious, definitely 00:45:10.100 --> 00:45:15.650 align:middle line:84% anti-religious people, or better stated, anti-religious control. 00:45:15.650 --> 00:45:19.960 align:middle line:90% 00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:23.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] that there would have been they'll 00:45:23.390 --> 00:45:25.458 align:middle line:90% be ignorant in [INAUDIBLE]. 00:45:25.458 --> 00:45:26.250 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Right. 00:45:26.250 --> 00:45:28.770 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:45:28.770 --> 00:45:32.330 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: And if you go to the Midwest today, 00:45:32.330 --> 00:45:38.910 align:middle line:84% you see much of the same arguments about schools, today. 00:45:38.910 --> 00:45:44.350 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That's the reason why [INAUDIBLE].. 00:45:44.350 --> 00:45:46.330 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Well, what happened was-- 00:45:46.330 --> 00:45:48.280 align:middle line:84% the main reason I'm bringing this up, 00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:50.513 align:middle line:84% and I'm still going to go back do some more history. 00:45:50.513 --> 00:45:52.930 align:middle line:84% I'm still going to require you to get these numbers right. 00:45:52.930 --> 00:45:54.910 align:middle line:84% I'm still going to require you to say when you've 00:45:54.910 --> 00:45:57.118 align:middle line:84% got the numbers right to bring the right numbers back 00:45:57.118 --> 00:45:58.970 align:middle line:90% to class, OK? 00:45:58.970 --> 00:46:05.900 align:middle line:84% But nevertheless, I'm going to trust my memory, for right now. 00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:14.950 align:middle line:84% No, the main reason for bringing this up is that character, 00:46:14.950 --> 00:46:18.660 align:middle line:84% this whole platonic tradition got wiped out 00:46:18.660 --> 00:46:19.535 align:middle line:90% in the United States. 00:46:19.535 --> 00:46:23.360 align:middle line:90% 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:24.740 align:middle line:90% We never replaced it. 00:46:24.740 --> 00:46:28.010 align:middle line:84% If we had religious character at first, 00:46:28.010 --> 00:46:30.290 align:middle line:84% could we have another kind of character? 00:46:30.290 --> 00:46:33.620 align:middle line:90% It never was replaced. 00:46:33.620 --> 00:46:34.120 align:middle line:90% OK? 00:46:34.120 --> 00:46:35.870 align:middle line:84% Now, that's the reason I'm bringing it up, 00:46:35.870 --> 00:46:38.300 align:middle line:90% that Plato got wiped out. 00:46:38.300 --> 00:46:40.300 align:middle line:84% And in the end, I'm going to say Plato has got 00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:43.562 align:middle line:90% to be brought back, all right? 00:46:43.562 --> 00:46:45.270 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to give you my thesis on it. 00:46:45.270 --> 00:46:48.460 align:middle line:84% You don't have to adopt my thesis on it. 00:46:48.460 --> 00:46:50.490 align:middle line:84% But if you don't adopt my thesis on it, 00:46:50.490 --> 00:46:52.170 align:middle line:90% you've got two responsibilities. 00:46:52.170 --> 00:46:57.570 align:middle line:84% Number one, tell me what thesis you do adopt, and number two, 00:46:57.570 --> 00:47:01.220 align:middle line:90% give me your justification, OK? 00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:04.330 align:middle line:90% 00:47:04.330 --> 00:47:05.980 align:middle line:84% But the fact is that we just won't 00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:11.320 align:middle line:84% see this tradition in the United States after the Civil War. 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:15.820 align:middle line:90% 00:47:15.820 --> 00:47:17.020 align:middle line:90% OK? 00:47:17.020 --> 00:47:22.910 align:middle line:84% We have what's called the Scopes trial in the United States 00:47:22.910 --> 00:47:26.600 align:middle line:84% where a schoolteacher-- this was in the 1920s-- 00:47:26.600 --> 00:47:30.605 align:middle line:84% was put on trial for teaching creationism in the class. 00:47:30.605 --> 00:47:33.530 align:middle line:90% 00:47:33.530 --> 00:47:36.400 align:middle line:90% And evolution? 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:37.192 align:middle line:90% I said creationism? 00:47:37.192 --> 00:47:38.567 align:middle line:84% I didn't mean to say creationism. 00:47:38.567 --> 00:47:39.740 align:middle line:90% I meant to say evolution. 00:47:39.740 --> 00:47:43.670 align:middle line:84% It was against creationism in the classroom. 00:47:43.670 --> 00:47:45.580 align:middle line:84% It became national news and became a big-- 00:47:45.580 --> 00:47:46.870 align:middle line:90% they made movies out of it. 00:47:46.870 --> 00:47:49.690 align:middle line:90% 00:47:49.690 --> 00:47:51.310 align:middle line:90% So this battle continued. 00:47:51.310 --> 00:47:53.430 align:middle line:84% Can you think of any other reasons 00:47:53.430 --> 00:47:55.180 align:middle line:84% that people would want to fight over this? 00:47:55.180 --> 00:48:00.070 align:middle line:90% 00:48:00.070 --> 00:48:03.200 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Possibly that the sentiment that the upper 00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:05.220 align:middle line:90% classes who were [INAUDIBLE]-- 00:48:05.220 --> 00:48:06.095 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Clearly. 00:48:06.095 --> 00:48:08.264 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: --weren't supposed to stoop 00:48:08.264 --> 00:48:11.245 align:middle line:90% to their level [INAUDIBLE]. 00:48:11.245 --> 00:48:12.620 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: John Dewey said, why 00:48:12.620 --> 00:48:18.877 align:middle line:84% have education just for the aristocrats and the preachers? 00:48:18.877 --> 00:48:19.960 align:middle line:90% Why don't the poor people? 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:21.764 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] that aristocrats [INAUDIBLE] special 00:48:21.764 --> 00:48:22.306 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE]-- 00:48:22.306 --> 00:48:23.097 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Right. 00:48:23.097 --> 00:48:24.140 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:48:24.140 --> 00:48:25.730 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Right. 00:48:25.730 --> 00:48:28.055 align:middle line:84% It was threatening to them in many ways. 00:48:28.055 --> 00:48:31.010 align:middle line:90% 00:48:31.010 --> 00:48:39.360 align:middle line:84% Can you imagine yourself an aristocrat in 1850 at Harvard, 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:42.020 align:middle line:84% and there's some kid just coming off a farm 00:48:42.020 --> 00:48:46.970 align:middle line:90% from Iowa coming to Harvard? 00:48:46.970 --> 00:48:49.963 align:middle line:90% Uh, not a fit. 00:48:49.963 --> 00:48:52.380 align:middle line:84% You can see where somebody would object to that, teachers, 00:48:52.380 --> 00:48:53.598 align:middle line:90% students, everybody. 00:48:53.598 --> 00:48:56.950 align:middle line:90% 00:48:56.950 --> 00:48:59.335 align:middle line:90% OK, so that was a class issue. 00:48:59.335 --> 00:49:02.123 align:middle line:90% 00:49:02.123 --> 00:49:04.040 align:middle line:84% And this whole thing filtered all the way down 00:49:04.040 --> 00:49:10.290 align:middle line:84% to first grade, not just the colleges, all right? 00:49:10.290 --> 00:49:12.450 align:middle line:84% Can you think of another issue, any other issue? 00:49:12.450 --> 00:49:17.760 align:middle line:84% I'll tell you one that's not-- that actually is like the-- 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.390 align:middle line:84% it's actually one that's obvious when you think about it, 00:49:21.390 --> 00:49:24.000 align:middle line:84% but you might not be motivated to think about it. 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:27.420 align:middle line:90% 00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:32.390 align:middle line:84% Here's, to me, what turned out to be 00:49:32.390 --> 00:49:35.210 align:middle line:84% a battleground in the United States 00:49:35.210 --> 00:49:41.870 align:middle line:84% over these two forms of education 00:49:41.870 --> 00:49:50.343 align:middle line:90% that I think was paramount. 00:49:50.343 --> 00:49:54.420 align:middle line:90% 00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:58.540 align:middle line:84% And that was, here's the question. 00:49:58.540 --> 00:49:59.710 align:middle line:90% Here is the question. 00:49:59.710 --> 00:50:04.000 align:middle line:90% 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:08.360 align:middle line:84% We've talked about means and ends. 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.590 align:middle line:84% We gave a name to it called teleology. 00:50:10.590 --> 00:50:13.880 align:middle line:90% 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:17.480 align:middle line:84% And the question is, what is the end of education, 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.570 align:middle line:90% the state or the individual? 00:50:21.570 --> 00:50:23.460 align:middle line:90% John Dewey's end was the state. 00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:28.180 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLES] Classical education is the individual. 00:50:28.180 --> 00:50:46.640 align:middle line:90% 00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:51.173 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Are you [INAUDIBLE] that [INAUDIBLE] 00:50:51.173 --> 00:50:55.907 align:middle line:84% or did John Dewey himself say that this [INAUDIBLE]?? 00:50:55.907 --> 00:50:57.490 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: I see what you're saying. 00:50:57.490 --> 00:50:59.530 align:middle line:84% This was a matter of open debate, 00:50:59.530 --> 00:51:03.290 align:middle line:84% and it was a matter that Dewey was charged with. 00:51:03.290 --> 00:51:09.350 align:middle line:84% And Dewey, and I think it's fair to say that in his mind 00:51:09.350 --> 00:51:14.240 align:middle line:84% his greatest work was one of his later works-- 00:51:14.240 --> 00:51:16.540 align:middle line:90% we got plenty of time-- 00:51:16.540 --> 00:51:21.920 align:middle line:84% was one of his later works called Democracy and Education. 00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:26.350 align:middle line:84% So Dewey tried to defend himself against these claims 00:51:26.350 --> 00:51:31.250 align:middle line:84% of education for the state as opposed to the individual, 00:51:31.250 --> 00:51:33.140 align:middle line:90% all right? 00:51:33.140 --> 00:51:35.970 align:middle line:84% I happen to take the position that that defense is not 00:51:35.970 --> 00:51:36.470 align:middle line:90% strong. 00:51:36.470 --> 00:51:42.970 align:middle line:90% 00:51:42.970 --> 00:51:44.710 align:middle line:84% But the point that I want to make 00:51:44.710 --> 00:51:47.140 align:middle line:84% that I think we all will agree on it 00:51:47.140 --> 00:51:48.670 align:middle line:84% and be able to see the justification 00:51:48.670 --> 00:51:52.480 align:middle line:84% that this was a point of debate, that 00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:59.518 align:middle line:84% was a major point of debate, and it continues, OK? 00:51:59.518 --> 00:52:01.290 align:middle line:90% All right? 00:52:01.290 --> 00:52:04.020 align:middle line:84% The classicists, the religious classicists 00:52:04.020 --> 00:52:09.570 align:middle line:84% would say that the ideal for the state is in heaven. 00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:12.390 align:middle line:84% More precisely, that if you're Christian, 00:52:12.390 --> 00:52:15.190 align:middle line:84% you're talking about the Trinity, 00:52:15.190 --> 00:52:17.830 align:middle line:84% that the relationship of God the Father, God the son, 00:52:17.830 --> 00:52:21.220 align:middle line:84% God the Holy Spirit is the model for the family, 00:52:21.220 --> 00:52:25.360 align:middle line:84% for government, for the community, and for business, 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:26.050 align:middle line:90% all right? 00:52:26.050 --> 00:52:28.420 align:middle line:90% That's what they would say. 00:52:28.420 --> 00:52:31.940 align:middle line:84% So they would say, yes, we are not just for the individual, 00:52:31.940 --> 00:52:34.250 align:middle line:90% but we're for the state. 00:52:34.250 --> 00:52:36.620 align:middle line:84% And John Dewey and the others would 00:52:36.620 --> 00:52:40.310 align:middle line:84% say that argument doesn't sound strong coming from you all. 00:52:40.310 --> 00:52:43.110 align:middle line:90% 00:52:43.110 --> 00:52:47.580 align:middle line:84% Democracy is by definition, as the Greeks put it, a community 00:52:47.580 --> 00:52:49.110 align:middle line:90% of free individuals. 00:52:49.110 --> 00:52:51.390 align:middle line:84% The individual is the primacy in democracy. 00:52:51.390 --> 00:52:55.980 align:middle line:90% 00:52:55.980 --> 00:52:58.290 align:middle line:84% So everybody said we're covering both bases, 00:52:58.290 --> 00:53:02.790 align:middle line:84% and each side said you really aren't sincere about this. 00:53:02.790 --> 00:53:05.105 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:53:05.105 --> 00:53:06.480 align:middle line:90% 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:06.980 align:middle line:90% All right? 00:53:06.980 --> 00:53:10.740 align:middle line:90% 00:53:10.740 --> 00:53:18.270 align:middle line:84% In 1945, a very important book was published. 00:53:18.270 --> 00:53:24.009 align:middle line:84% It was called General Education in a Free Society. 00:53:24.009 --> 00:53:40.000 align:middle line:90% 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:43.200 align:middle line:90% Now, this book came out in 1945. 00:53:43.200 --> 00:53:45.880 align:middle line:90% That's auspicious. 00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:47.750 align:middle line:90% Second World War ended. 00:53:47.750 --> 00:53:50.557 align:middle line:90% 00:53:50.557 --> 00:53:52.390 align:middle line:84% The National Science Foundation was founded. 00:53:52.390 --> 00:53:55.700 align:middle line:90% 00:53:55.700 --> 00:53:59.690 align:middle line:84% And it attempted General Education 00:53:59.690 --> 00:54:03.170 align:middle line:84% in a Free Society, this book, to make sense out 00:54:03.170 --> 00:54:10.850 align:middle line:84% of this debate, classical versus pragmatic education, 00:54:10.850 --> 00:54:14.010 align:middle line:90% tried to find a compromise. 00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:15.030 align:middle line:90% Now, who wrote it? 00:54:15.030 --> 00:54:17.710 align:middle line:90% 00:54:17.710 --> 00:54:18.210 align:middle line:90% All right? 00:54:18.210 --> 00:54:19.002 align:middle line:90% You ready for this? 00:54:19.002 --> 00:54:20.728 align:middle line:84% If you haven't heard of this book, 00:54:20.728 --> 00:54:22.020 align:middle line:90% you'd never guess who wrote it. 00:54:22.020 --> 00:54:25.230 align:middle line:90% 00:54:25.230 --> 00:54:26.730 align:middle line:84% I'll tell you why you'd never guess. 00:54:26.730 --> 00:54:28.105 align:middle line:84% It was a committee that wrote it. 00:54:28.105 --> 00:54:29.850 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:54:29.850 --> 00:54:32.400 align:middle line:84% It was a faculty committee at Harvard. 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.722 align:middle line:84% Believe it or not, I mentioned Harvard three times already. 00:54:35.722 --> 00:54:37.630 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:54:37.630 --> 00:54:41.760 align:middle line:84% It was a faculty committee at Harvard commissioned by a very 00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:44.010 align:middle line:90% famous college president. 00:54:44.010 --> 00:54:47.010 align:middle line:84% You could name a lot of Nobel Prize-winning faculty members, 00:54:47.010 --> 00:54:49.950 align:middle line:84% but it's hard to name college presidents. 00:54:49.950 --> 00:54:51.900 align:middle line:84% But there's one that you ought to remember, 00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:57.848 align:middle line:84% James Bryant Conant, C-O-N-A-N-T. 00:54:57.848 --> 00:55:01.230 align:middle line:84% And he commissioned this committee, 00:55:01.230 --> 00:55:03.330 align:middle line:84% and the committee came back with this report. 00:55:03.330 --> 00:55:07.620 align:middle line:84% And the report actually tried to make a compromise out 00:55:07.620 --> 00:55:08.760 align:middle line:90% of all of this. 00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:11.760 align:middle line:84% We can go through what the compromise meant. 00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:13.650 align:middle line:84% I'd like to take a minute or two to say 00:55:13.650 --> 00:55:16.740 align:middle line:84% what the compromise meant, but the compromise never stuck. 00:55:16.740 --> 00:55:20.520 align:middle line:90% And I'll tell you this-- 00:55:20.520 --> 00:55:24.480 align:middle line:84% let's see what this very important book is about. 00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:28.170 align:middle line:90% 00:55:28.170 --> 00:55:31.550 align:middle line:90% It's a book that's hard to get. 00:55:31.550 --> 00:55:34.340 align:middle line:84% To my knowledge, you might be able to get it on eBay. 00:55:34.340 --> 00:55:37.638 align:middle line:84% You won't be able to get it on amazon.com. 00:55:37.638 --> 00:55:39.180 align:middle line:84% I'll tell you where else you will not 00:55:39.180 --> 00:55:42.010 align:middle line:84% be able to get it, Harvard's bookstore. 00:55:42.010 --> 00:55:44.410 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:55:44.410 --> 00:55:48.740 align:middle line:90% 00:55:48.740 --> 00:55:52.660 align:middle line:84% My copy was a gift from an older faculty member when 00:55:52.660 --> 00:55:56.080 align:middle line:90% I was a young faculty member. 00:55:56.080 --> 00:55:59.980 align:middle line:84% Now, here's what they tried to do. 00:55:59.980 --> 00:56:01.630 align:middle line:84% General education in a free society-- 00:56:01.630 --> 00:56:03.755 align:middle line:84% then I'm going to go back to these slides, and then 00:56:03.755 --> 00:56:05.800 align:middle line:84% we'll get on-- and we'll finish up the class. 00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.660 align:middle line:84% General Education in a Free Society 00:56:07.660 --> 00:56:11.770 align:middle line:84% said that education has got to have two parts. 00:56:11.770 --> 00:56:15.690 align:middle line:90% 00:56:15.690 --> 00:56:20.582 align:middle line:84% One part is for the individual, and the other part 00:56:20.582 --> 00:56:21.290 align:middle line:90% is for the state. 00:56:21.290 --> 00:56:23.565 align:middle line:90% [CHUCKLES] 00:56:23.565 --> 00:56:25.840 align:middle line:90% 00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:27.910 align:middle line:84% The part that's for the individual 00:56:27.910 --> 00:56:31.030 align:middle line:84% is called general education, and you 00:56:31.030 --> 00:56:33.520 align:middle line:90% take many classical studies. 00:56:33.520 --> 00:56:35.710 align:middle line:90% And it's supposed to be-- 00:56:35.710 --> 00:56:37.060 align:middle line:90% to bring back character. 00:56:37.060 --> 00:56:38.935 align:middle line:84% I'm going to tell you why it never came back, 00:56:38.935 --> 00:56:43.240 align:middle line:84% but that's what the argument was. 00:56:43.240 --> 00:56:48.230 align:middle line:84% And that special education was the other one. 00:56:48.230 --> 00:56:52.420 align:middle line:84% And special education was to help 00:56:52.420 --> 00:56:54.610 align:middle line:90% you find a job and a career. 00:56:54.610 --> 00:56:58.330 align:middle line:90% 00:56:58.330 --> 00:57:04.190 align:middle line:84% And given that the state pretty much determines 00:57:04.190 --> 00:57:07.500 align:middle line:84% what jobs are available and where your career is going, 00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:11.090 align:middle line:84% that's indirectly how you satisfy 00:57:11.090 --> 00:57:15.170 align:middle line:84% the people who say we need to have education for the state. 00:57:15.170 --> 00:57:18.880 align:middle line:84% At first, to get in the Industrial Revolution. 00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:24.150 align:middle line:84% Secondly, to defend ourselves against, guess what? 00:57:24.150 --> 00:57:26.630 align:middle line:90% Communism. 00:57:26.630 --> 00:57:30.490 align:middle line:90% Why were we afraid of communism? 00:57:30.490 --> 00:57:32.410 align:middle line:84% We were afraid of communism because we 00:57:32.410 --> 00:57:34.060 align:middle line:90% were afraid of the Russians. 00:57:34.060 --> 00:57:36.640 align:middle line:84% We were afraid of the Russians because the Russians had 00:57:36.640 --> 00:57:40.360 align:middle line:84% a formula that said, if we need three million engineers, 00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.845 align:middle line:84% we will command that we shall have three million engineers. 00:57:42.845 --> 00:57:45.220 align:middle line:84% In the United States, if we need three million engineers, 00:57:45.220 --> 00:57:47.260 align:middle line:84% we say, well, we've got some scholarships. 00:57:47.260 --> 00:57:48.670 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:57:48.670 --> 00:57:55.170 align:middle line:84% In other words, could we compete with a culture like that? 00:57:55.170 --> 00:57:57.530 align:middle line:84% That was the question, all right? 00:57:57.530 --> 00:57:59.960 align:middle line:84% So a lot of people who wanted education for the state 00:57:59.960 --> 00:58:02.770 align:middle line:90% wanted us to be competitive. 00:58:02.770 --> 00:58:08.710 align:middle line:84% All of this free choice did not promise to be competitive, OK? 00:58:08.710 --> 00:58:11.830 align:middle line:84% So this General Education in a Free Society 00:58:11.830 --> 00:58:14.740 align:middle line:84% said we should have two kinds, general education 00:58:14.740 --> 00:58:16.570 align:middle line:90% and special education. 00:58:16.570 --> 00:58:19.540 align:middle line:84% General education was what they put 00:58:19.540 --> 00:58:21.970 align:middle line:84% in the part of the curriculum we call the core curriculum. 00:58:21.970 --> 00:58:24.700 align:middle line:84% That is, the courses that everybody takes. 00:58:24.700 --> 00:58:28.250 align:middle line:84% Special education is what they call the major. 00:58:28.250 --> 00:58:30.800 align:middle line:84% You want to be an engineer, an economist, or whatever. 00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:34.290 align:middle line:84% That's what you specialize in and get your special education. 00:58:34.290 --> 00:58:38.660 align:middle line:84% So you see, this book did have a formula, a lot of which 00:58:38.660 --> 00:58:40.820 align:middle line:84% that we live by, at least in the United States, 00:58:40.820 --> 00:58:44.060 align:middle line:90% today, all right? 00:58:44.060 --> 00:58:46.640 align:middle line:84% Then the book comes out its early pages, 00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:49.250 align:middle line:84% we're talking about before you get, I think, to page-- 00:58:49.250 --> 00:58:50.715 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:58:50.715 --> 00:58:53.090 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: We have another-- we have until five minutes 00:58:53.090 --> 00:58:56.137 align:middle line:90% of, and this is a class, so-- 00:58:56.137 --> 00:58:57.595 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] five minutes. 00:58:57.595 --> 00:58:58.990 align:middle line:90% OK, [INAUDIBLE]. 00:58:58.990 --> 00:59:04.150 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Yeah, so at 10:55, yeah, we'll be out of here. 00:59:04.150 --> 00:59:05.960 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:07.655 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 10:35. 00:59:07.655 --> 00:59:08.530 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:59:08.530 --> 00:59:09.520 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Oh, this is right here? 00:59:09.520 --> 00:59:09.820 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 00:59:09.820 --> 00:59:10.210 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Sorry. 00:59:10.210 --> 00:59:10.530 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: OK. 00:59:10.530 --> 00:59:11.030 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:59:11.030 --> 00:59:12.880 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: We'll be in there in a little bit. 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:13.422 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: OK. 00:59:13.422 --> 00:59:14.255 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: All right. 00:59:14.255 --> 00:59:15.937 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 00:59:15.937 --> 00:59:17.770 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: I could have said that we could 00:59:17.770 --> 00:59:19.062 align:middle line:90% dispose of those pizzas, right? 00:59:19.062 --> 00:59:19.690 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:59:19.690 --> 00:59:22.190 align:middle line:90% It might not be ethical, but-- 00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:25.240 align:middle line:84% all right, let's finish up this thing here. 00:59:25.240 --> 00:59:30.100 align:middle line:84% That ethics was included and the-- 00:59:30.100 --> 00:59:34.210 align:middle line:84% I forgot to mention ethics when I was mentioning these courses. 00:59:34.210 --> 00:59:36.340 align:middle line:84% I don't know why I forgot to mention ethics, 00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:40.900 align:middle line:84% but ethics was included in all of this. 00:59:40.900 --> 00:59:43.990 align:middle line:84% And what the General Education in a Free Society 00:59:43.990 --> 00:59:52.320 align:middle line:84% said was the big challenge to general education-- 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:55.460 align:middle line:84% there were two challenges to general education. 00:59:55.460 --> 00:59:57.140 align:middle line:90% It said this in 1945. 00:59:57.140 --> 01:00:02.840 align:middle line:84% I'm sure that it sounds like it was said in 2005. 01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:06.950 align:middle line:84% They said there were two big challenges. 01:00:06.950 --> 01:00:11.985 align:middle line:90% One of the challenges was that-- 01:00:11.985 --> 01:00:15.040 align:middle line:90% 01:00:15.040 --> 01:00:17.440 align:middle line:84% they called it the proliferation of knowledge. 01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:19.270 align:middle line:84% There's just too many things-- too much-- 01:00:19.270 --> 01:00:22.560 align:middle line:90% too many books being written. 01:00:22.560 --> 01:00:26.300 align:middle line:84% So out of all of these things, which ones 01:00:26.300 --> 01:00:29.330 align:middle line:84% do you choose to teach to everybody? 01:00:29.330 --> 01:00:32.810 align:middle line:90% 01:00:32.810 --> 01:00:35.985 align:middle line:84% The second one was diversification of culture. 01:00:35.985 --> 01:00:38.850 align:middle line:90% 01:00:38.850 --> 01:00:46.830 align:middle line:84% The United States population between 1850 in 1950, 01:00:46.830 --> 01:00:48.600 align:middle line:90% I think increased by a-- 01:00:48.600 --> 01:00:53.090 align:middle line:84% of kids in school increased by something like 20 times. 01:00:53.090 --> 01:00:56.860 align:middle line:84% That's another number for you to verify, but it's a big number. 01:00:56.860 --> 01:00:59.680 align:middle line:84% And the question then is how do you 01:00:59.680 --> 01:01:03.310 align:middle line:84% teach, once you've decided what to teach, 01:01:03.310 --> 01:01:05.850 align:middle line:84% how do you teach it to each individual given 01:01:05.850 --> 01:01:10.080 align:middle line:84% different tastes and abilities and all of that? 01:01:10.080 --> 01:01:14.730 align:middle line:84% OK, so they said that what they needed 01:01:14.730 --> 01:01:17.250 align:middle line:84% was what was called a unity principle. 01:01:17.250 --> 01:01:25.140 align:middle line:90% 01:01:25.140 --> 01:01:28.370 align:middle line:84% And that is that after you have chosen 01:01:28.370 --> 01:01:31.850 align:middle line:84% from all of this wealth of knowledge and learning, 01:01:31.850 --> 01:01:36.060 align:middle line:84% better stated learning, which few things you're 01:01:36.060 --> 01:01:45.760 align:middle line:84% going to teach to everybody, and after you decided that you know 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:50.420 align:middle line:84% how to teach it to each individual, what you've 01:01:50.420 --> 01:01:58.070 align:middle line:84% got to do is to say that what a person has learned in school 01:01:58.070 --> 01:02:03.180 align:middle line:84% has got to help them learn more when they get out of school. 01:02:03.180 --> 01:02:07.520 align:middle line:84% So all of this stuff has to fit into some kind of pattern. 01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:09.540 align:middle line:90% Now, we did that in this course. 01:02:09.540 --> 01:02:13.730 align:middle line:84% We were [INAUDIBLE] to be able to show a pattern between 01:02:13.730 --> 01:02:18.500 align:middle line:84% the structure of ethics and the structure of science when we 01:02:18.500 --> 01:02:24.770 align:middle line:84% said talk about the empirical, the rational, and now-- 01:02:24.770 --> 01:02:27.050 align:middle line:84% which I have gone into any detail on because I'm 01:02:27.050 --> 01:02:29.180 align:middle line:90% waiting for the-- 01:02:29.180 --> 01:02:32.000 align:middle line:84% believe it or not, Three Mile Island piece to do it. 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.090 align:middle line:84% But the question is, how do you take 01:02:35.090 --> 01:02:43.180 align:middle line:84% learning from music and mathematics and art 01:02:43.180 --> 01:02:47.910 align:middle line:84% and physics, how do you make sense out of all of that? 01:02:47.910 --> 01:02:52.320 align:middle line:84% And what they went through were some formulas, 01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:55.080 align:middle line:84% and many proposals have come in but nobody 01:02:55.080 --> 01:02:57.720 align:middle line:84% has accepted any of them as a principle 01:02:57.720 --> 01:02:58.800 align:middle line:90% for general education. 01:02:58.800 --> 01:02:59.490 align:middle line:90% Let's name some. 01:02:59.490 --> 01:03:01.323 align:middle line:84% The first one that came in was Christianity. 01:03:01.323 --> 01:03:03.390 align:middle line:90% [CHUCKLES] 01:03:03.390 --> 01:03:05.940 align:middle line:84% Well, not everybody is a Christian. 01:03:05.940 --> 01:03:09.330 align:middle line:90% So they threw that out. 01:03:09.330 --> 01:03:11.250 align:middle line:90% I'll name one or two-- 01:03:11.250 --> 01:03:11.820 align:middle line:90% cut me off. 01:03:11.820 --> 01:03:13.237 align:middle line:84% This is a good place to cut me off 01:03:13.237 --> 01:03:16.020 align:middle line:84% if you think of some others, some other proposals 01:03:16.020 --> 01:03:22.050 align:middle line:84% and if they came up, and why they were slashed down. 01:03:22.050 --> 01:03:27.300 align:middle line:84% One of them was cultural literacy. 01:03:27.300 --> 01:03:30.120 align:middle line:84% Back in the '50s, it was called the Chicago School. 01:03:30.120 --> 01:03:32.620 align:middle line:90% They dedicated themselves to-- 01:03:32.620 --> 01:03:35.170 align:middle line:90% well, that's been thrown out. 01:03:35.170 --> 01:03:37.750 align:middle line:90% 01:03:37.750 --> 01:03:42.130 align:middle line:84% Nobody just seems to benefit from a vocabulary. 01:03:42.130 --> 01:03:43.210 align:middle line:90% You don't get meaning. 01:03:43.210 --> 01:03:44.620 align:middle line:90% Don't get context. 01:03:44.620 --> 01:03:45.948 align:middle line:90% There's too much of it. 01:03:45.948 --> 01:03:47.740 align:middle line:84% If it's technological, it changes too fast. 01:03:47.740 --> 01:03:51.540 align:middle line:90% 01:03:51.540 --> 01:03:54.360 align:middle line:84% Critical thinking, actually that was the Chicago School. 01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:58.507 align:middle line:90% Critical thinking, OK? 01:03:58.507 --> 01:03:59.340 align:middle line:90% That got thrown out. 01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:00.880 align:middle line:90% Can anybody name any others? 01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.810 align:middle line:84% There were a whole bunch of others. 01:04:03.810 --> 01:04:08.670 align:middle line:84% The book said that it did not have a solution to this problem 01:04:08.670 --> 01:04:10.560 align:middle line:90% of a unity principle. 01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:12.870 align:middle line:84% It had the faith that somebody was going to find one. 01:04:12.870 --> 01:04:14.550 align:middle line:90% Nobody's found one to this day. 01:04:14.550 --> 01:04:18.590 align:middle line:90% 01:04:18.590 --> 01:04:28.220 align:middle line:84% So that means we're struggling along with what 01:04:28.220 --> 01:04:30.380 align:middle line:90% was left out of this piece. 01:04:30.380 --> 01:04:37.752 align:middle line:84% And one of the big casualties of it still is character. 01:04:37.752 --> 01:04:43.300 align:middle line:90% 01:04:43.300 --> 01:04:44.490 align:middle line:90% What is engineering? 01:04:44.490 --> 01:04:46.450 align:middle line:90% Oh, let's see now. 01:04:46.450 --> 01:04:48.205 align:middle line:84% I really wanted this to be a good picture. 01:04:48.205 --> 01:04:53.090 align:middle line:90% 01:04:53.090 --> 01:04:55.768 align:middle line:84% Can anybody tell what this picture is of? 01:04:55.768 --> 01:04:58.060 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 01:04:58.060 --> 01:05:03.320 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Yeah, it's a nighttime view 01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:06.270 align:middle line:90% of the Stata Center. 01:05:06.270 --> 01:05:10.430 align:middle line:84% This building is right up here on campus, OK? 01:05:10.430 --> 01:05:13.130 align:middle line:84% Now, we did discuss some ideas about what 01:05:13.130 --> 01:05:16.580 align:middle line:90% really is engineering. 01:05:16.580 --> 01:05:19.160 align:middle line:84% Joel Moses, Dr. Moses came in, and he 01:05:19.160 --> 01:05:26.990 align:middle line:84% said that Plato and Aristotle gave us two ways of thinking. 01:05:26.990 --> 01:05:32.240 align:middle line:84% Aristotle gave us a systematic way 01:05:32.240 --> 01:05:35.720 align:middle line:84% of thinking that was what we call analytic. 01:05:35.720 --> 01:05:40.010 align:middle line:90% 01:05:40.010 --> 01:05:44.480 align:middle line:84% And that is, if you want to understand something, 01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:50.750 align:middle line:84% you break it up into its parts and you understand the parts. 01:05:50.750 --> 01:05:53.030 align:middle line:84% And then you put the parts back together, 01:05:53.030 --> 01:05:54.830 align:middle line:84% and maybe you can understand the whole. 01:05:54.830 --> 01:05:57.470 align:middle line:90% 01:05:57.470 --> 01:06:00.830 align:middle line:90% Plato said was synthetic. 01:06:00.830 --> 01:06:05.440 align:middle line:90% 01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:13.150 align:middle line:84% Plato said, well, if we want to understand a thing, 01:06:13.150 --> 01:06:22.150 align:middle line:84% we first say what it is, and then we say what it is not. 01:06:22.150 --> 01:06:26.460 align:middle line:90% 01:06:26.460 --> 01:06:28.980 align:middle line:84% And then somehow out of a synthetic approach, 01:06:28.980 --> 01:06:32.430 align:middle line:84% we're able to understand better what this thing is that we're 01:06:32.430 --> 01:06:36.250 align:middle line:90% talking about as a whole. 01:06:36.250 --> 01:06:41.040 align:middle line:84% And when you bring these two approaches, traditions together 01:06:41.040 --> 01:06:46.200 align:middle line:84% into one, you get something different from the two. 01:06:46.200 --> 01:06:50.110 align:middle line:90% And we call it engineering. 01:06:50.110 --> 01:06:57.310 align:middle line:84% Now, the reason that we are going to take that idea very 01:06:57.310 --> 01:07:00.000 align:middle line:90% seriously is not because-- 01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:02.230 align:middle line:84% simply because somebody is here to say it, 01:07:02.230 --> 01:07:05.800 align:middle line:84% not because it is compelling, but because there really 01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:07.630 align:middle line:84% isn't a philosophy of engineering out here. 01:07:07.630 --> 01:07:09.850 align:middle line:90% There really isn't. 01:07:09.850 --> 01:07:13.630 align:middle line:84% I'm writing a book on it, so I have my views about it. 01:07:13.630 --> 01:07:15.850 align:middle line:84% And there will be a time towards the end of the class 01:07:15.850 --> 01:07:17.558 align:middle line:84% when I will share my views, which 01:07:17.558 --> 01:07:18.850 align:middle line:90% you will find very interesting. 01:07:18.850 --> 01:07:20.558 align:middle line:84% It doesn't really conflict with all this. 01:07:20.558 --> 01:07:24.640 align:middle line:90% It subsumes it. 01:07:24.640 --> 01:07:28.070 align:middle line:90% 01:07:28.070 --> 01:07:30.590 align:middle line:84% And what I will say is that engineering 01:07:30.590 --> 01:07:38.780 align:middle line:84% began when what used to be called the practical arts, 01:07:38.780 --> 01:07:41.360 align:middle line:84% road building, things like that, came together 01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:43.190 align:middle line:84% with the science and mathematics. 01:07:43.190 --> 01:07:46.600 align:middle line:90% 01:07:46.600 --> 01:07:51.100 align:middle line:84% OK, we put those two together, and we're just about done. 01:07:51.100 --> 01:07:52.210 align:middle line:90% We had talked about-- 01:07:52.210 --> 01:07:55.160 align:middle line:90% 01:07:55.160 --> 01:07:56.930 align:middle line:90% did I do-- no, I didn't. 01:07:56.930 --> 01:07:58.530 align:middle line:90% It's just [INAUDIBLE]. 01:07:58.530 --> 01:07:59.430 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 01:07:59.430 --> 01:08:00.452 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Is she OK? 01:08:00.452 --> 01:08:02.660 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Remember, she said she had to go to a test. 01:08:02.660 --> 01:08:03.743 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: That's right. 01:08:03.743 --> 01:08:08.090 align:middle line:90% 01:08:08.090 --> 01:08:09.890 align:middle line:84% We talked about how engineering and ethics 01:08:09.890 --> 01:08:10.970 align:middle line:90% can engage each other. 01:08:10.970 --> 01:08:13.170 align:middle line:84% Sometimes, you don't really have to be an engineer. 01:08:13.170 --> 01:08:16.189 align:middle line:84% You really don't need to the technological system. 01:08:16.189 --> 01:08:19.340 align:middle line:84% What you do then, if this is technology 01:08:19.340 --> 01:08:22.729 align:middle line:84% and if these are people, then you study their interactions 01:08:22.729 --> 01:08:25.330 align:middle line:84% and how they relate themselves to technology. 01:08:25.330 --> 01:08:26.330 align:middle line:90% And you make a decision. 01:08:26.330 --> 01:08:29.330 align:middle line:84% We did that already in class, particularly, 01:08:29.330 --> 01:08:31.208 align:middle line:90% when we analyzed the A7D case. 01:08:31.208 --> 01:08:32.750 align:middle line:84% You really didn't have to a whole lot 01:08:32.750 --> 01:08:34.370 align:middle line:90% about airplanes and brakes. 01:08:34.370 --> 01:08:38.830 align:middle line:90% 01:08:38.830 --> 01:08:42.609 align:middle line:84% In this case, and when we talk about like with Three Mile 01:08:42.609 --> 01:08:47.479 align:middle line:84% Island, you really have to know what a nuclear plant is 01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:52.029 align:middle line:84% to understand about how to make an ethical judgment 01:08:52.029 --> 01:08:54.050 align:middle line:90% about the situation. 01:08:54.050 --> 01:09:00.845 align:middle line:84% And there is this interdisciplinary mode. 01:09:00.845 --> 01:09:03.220 align:middle line:84% Now, I want to take a minute to say something about that, 01:09:03.220 --> 01:09:05.540 align:middle line:84% and according to my watch, we've got six minutes 01:09:05.540 --> 01:09:06.670 align:middle line:90% and we're out of here. 01:09:06.670 --> 01:09:11.560 align:middle line:90% 01:09:11.560 --> 01:09:20.020 align:middle line:84% Now, this slide here provoked a long and in-depth discussion 01:09:20.020 --> 01:09:24.220 align:middle line:84% yesterday both in the class and outside of it. 01:09:24.220 --> 01:09:29.260 align:middle line:84% I want to [INAUDIBLE] Lester's office, which is actually 01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:30.520 align:middle line:90% in the same suite that I'm in. 01:09:30.520 --> 01:09:32.040 align:middle line:90% [CHUCKLES] 01:09:32.040 --> 01:09:33.883 align:middle line:84% Went down and we talked for about-- 01:09:33.883 --> 01:09:35.800 align:middle line:84% I think-- we had lunch together in his office, 01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:39.640 align:middle line:84% and we talked for almost an hour. 01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:43.870 align:middle line:84% This one is the big issue here because what it says 01:09:43.870 --> 01:09:48.760 align:middle line:84% is that there's a possibility when you engage two learned 01:09:48.760 --> 01:09:55.260 align:middle line:84% disciplines that, in order to solve the problem, 01:09:55.260 --> 01:09:58.850 align:middle line:84% you have to throw out one of the fundamental principles of one 01:09:58.850 --> 01:10:01.580 align:middle line:90% of those disciplines. 01:10:01.580 --> 01:10:03.080 align:middle line:90% Now, let's see how that happens. 01:10:03.080 --> 01:10:08.060 align:middle line:84% In ethics, here's what I did with this paper. 01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:13.790 align:middle line:84% When I said let's put a person in a situation-- 01:10:13.790 --> 01:10:16.360 align:middle line:90% 01:10:16.360 --> 01:10:19.210 align:middle line:90% in this case was my Uncle Roy. 01:10:19.210 --> 01:10:24.520 align:middle line:84% And other cases we called them [NON-ENGLISH].. 01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:27.280 align:middle line:84% The Nigerians called it [NON-ENGLISH].. 01:10:27.280 --> 01:10:29.950 align:middle line:90% 01:10:29.950 --> 01:10:33.370 align:middle line:90% Jews call it the [NON-ENGLISH]. 01:10:33.370 --> 01:10:35.860 align:middle line:84% You put a person into a situation 01:10:35.860 --> 01:10:38.170 align:middle line:90% who is not a virtuous person. 01:10:38.170 --> 01:10:39.760 align:middle line:84% Now, once you do that, you're outside 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:44.230 align:middle line:84% of the realm of everything that Western ethics has to say. 01:10:44.230 --> 01:10:46.510 align:middle line:84% You're outside of the realm because we're not 01:10:46.510 --> 01:10:49.520 align:middle line:90% looking to do the right thing. 01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:53.860 align:middle line:84% We're talking about a situation that is exigent. 01:10:53.860 --> 01:10:57.320 align:middle line:84% You have to make a decision right away, potentially lethal, 01:10:57.320 --> 01:11:00.490 align:middle line:90% so you have to make a decision. 01:11:00.490 --> 01:11:05.620 align:middle line:84% And the question is, after you've done it here, 01:11:05.620 --> 01:11:07.660 align:middle line:84% and even if you've done the wrong thing, 01:11:07.660 --> 01:11:09.880 align:middle line:84% will the rest of the society forgive you? 01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:12.550 align:middle line:90% 01:11:12.550 --> 01:11:17.260 align:middle line:84% Now, when I brought this thing up with philosophers 01:11:17.260 --> 01:11:20.950 align:middle line:84% the first time, they were of one mind, 01:11:20.950 --> 01:11:24.010 align:middle line:84% in total agreement, total agreement 01:11:24.010 --> 01:11:26.590 align:middle line:84% that this was outside of the realm of anything 01:11:26.590 --> 01:11:29.833 align:middle line:84% we call ethics or moral philosophy. 01:11:29.833 --> 01:11:33.220 align:middle line:90% 01:11:33.220 --> 01:11:37.030 align:middle line:84% They finally accepted it, but it's outside the realm. 01:11:37.030 --> 01:11:38.950 align:middle line:84% Now, here's what I want you to try to do. 01:11:38.950 --> 01:11:40.970 align:middle line:90% I want you try to do two things. 01:11:40.970 --> 01:11:43.810 align:middle line:84% First of all, I want you to try to imagine 01:11:43.810 --> 01:11:49.690 align:middle line:84% that you were doing this, but you're 01:11:49.690 --> 01:11:52.820 align:middle line:90% doing it for your dissertation. 01:11:52.820 --> 01:11:54.577 align:middle line:84% Your committee is going to say no. 01:11:54.577 --> 01:11:57.260 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 01:11:57.260 --> 01:12:00.320 align:middle line:84% Let's say that you're a faculty member and you want to do this. 01:12:00.320 --> 01:12:03.020 align:middle line:84% And you want to go up for tenure. 01:12:03.020 --> 01:12:04.520 align:middle line:90% Committee going to say no. 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.620 align:middle line:90% All right, so there is-- 01:12:06.620 --> 01:12:09.410 align:middle line:84% I argue-- and I'm not alone in this-- 01:12:09.410 --> 01:12:16.010 align:middle line:84% that-- and Lester is a guy who does public policy 01:12:16.010 --> 01:12:20.390 align:middle line:84% and had been doing it when he came here 01:12:20.390 --> 01:12:22.490 align:middle line:90% along with nuclear engineering. 01:12:22.490 --> 01:12:24.710 align:middle line:84% And he had to deal with this problem 01:12:24.710 --> 01:12:27.350 align:middle line:84% in terms of getting rank and tenure, all right? 01:12:27.350 --> 01:12:30.820 align:middle line:84% So the question is, when you're engaging two or more 01:12:30.820 --> 01:12:35.510 align:middle line:84% learned disciplines, what do you do if you encounter 01:12:35.510 --> 01:12:38.990 align:middle line:84% a problem that you can solve but at the expense 01:12:38.990 --> 01:12:41.480 align:middle line:84% of a first principle in one of the disciplines 01:12:41.480 --> 01:12:44.360 align:middle line:90% that you're bringing together? 01:12:44.360 --> 01:12:45.770 align:middle line:84% What normally happens out of that 01:12:45.770 --> 01:12:48.740 align:middle line:84% is that you spawn a brand new discipline. 01:12:48.740 --> 01:12:50.360 align:middle line:84% What happens when you spawn a brand 01:12:50.360 --> 01:12:55.100 align:middle line:84% new discipline is that you're the only expert on the planet 01:12:55.100 --> 01:12:56.990 align:middle line:90% on that new discipline. 01:12:56.990 --> 01:12:59.150 align:middle line:84% And anybody who's going to make a judgment about it 01:12:59.150 --> 01:13:01.430 align:middle line:90% is outside the realm. 01:13:01.430 --> 01:13:02.850 align:middle line:90% It takes time. 01:13:02.850 --> 01:13:06.080 align:middle line:90% This is a cultural issue. 01:13:06.080 --> 01:13:10.130 align:middle line:84% So I'm just going to conclude and just 01:13:10.130 --> 01:13:14.210 align:middle line:84% show you some of these other slides, actually, 01:13:14.210 --> 01:13:18.350 align:middle line:84% that the Three Mile Island case was aggravated 01:13:18.350 --> 01:13:22.880 align:middle line:84% by some real events and movies that were made of real events. 01:13:22.880 --> 01:13:26.090 align:middle line:84% And this particular case occurred-- 01:13:26.090 --> 01:13:28.610 align:middle line:84% this particular movie came out two weeks 01:13:28.610 --> 01:13:30.870 align:middle line:84% before Three Mile Island actually happened. 01:13:30.870 --> 01:13:33.810 align:middle line:84% It was almost as though it predicted the Three Mile Island 01:13:33.810 --> 01:13:34.310 align:middle line:90% case. 01:13:34.310 --> 01:13:36.740 align:middle line:84% And what that meant was that people couldn't 01:13:36.740 --> 01:13:39.470 align:middle line:84% make good rational decisions about nuclear power 01:13:39.470 --> 01:13:41.450 align:middle line:90% in the United States. 01:13:41.450 --> 01:13:45.260 align:middle line:90% Those movies scared us to death. 01:13:45.260 --> 01:13:51.620 align:middle line:84% And what happened here that is very 01:13:51.620 --> 01:13:55.730 align:middle line:84% important for an ethical class, a class in ethics, which 01:13:55.730 --> 01:13:58.610 align:middle line:84% is also an ethical class, I hope, 01:13:58.610 --> 01:14:04.050 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLES] that when this pump went bad, 01:14:04.050 --> 01:14:07.850 align:middle line:84% it was just a mechanical, it was just a technological failure. 01:14:07.850 --> 01:14:11.460 align:middle line:90% It just went bad, did not pump. 01:14:11.460 --> 01:14:15.320 align:middle line:84% And when it did not pump, it caused readings 01:14:15.320 --> 01:14:19.760 align:middle line:84% to be made in the control room that were deceptive. 01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:21.800 align:middle line:84% It did not say that the pumps were working. 01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:24.710 align:middle line:84% It said that something was overheating. 01:14:24.710 --> 01:14:27.050 align:middle line:84% And when they tried to compensate 01:14:27.050 --> 01:14:28.890 align:middle line:90% they did the wrong thing. 01:14:28.890 --> 01:14:31.670 align:middle line:84% And this almost could have-- this 01:14:31.670 --> 01:14:34.820 align:middle line:84% could have been the real scare of nuclear power, 01:14:34.820 --> 01:14:36.440 align:middle line:90% could have been a meltdown. 01:14:36.440 --> 01:14:38.750 align:middle line:84% The important thing for ethics is 01:14:38.750 --> 01:14:44.660 align:middle line:84% that we could never assign moral responsibility 01:14:44.660 --> 01:14:47.910 align:middle line:90% to any individual. 01:14:47.910 --> 01:14:50.670 align:middle line:84% So the question is, is there something about the way we 01:14:50.670 --> 01:14:52.710 align:middle line:84% as a culture look at nuclear power that 01:14:52.710 --> 01:14:54.060 align:middle line:90% is wrong and maybe bad? 01:14:54.060 --> 01:14:57.300 align:middle line:90% 01:14:57.300 --> 01:15:00.260 align:middle line:84% And I would argue that that's true. 01:15:00.260 --> 01:15:01.970 align:middle line:84% I went to work for the Nuclear Regulatory 01:15:01.970 --> 01:15:05.090 align:middle line:90% Commission June 1 of 1979. 01:15:05.090 --> 01:15:06.620 align:middle line:84% That was March, April, May, June. 01:15:06.620 --> 01:15:09.920 align:middle line:84% That was three months right after Three Mile Island. 01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:11.510 align:middle line:84% And this is a nuclear power plant. 01:15:11.510 --> 01:15:15.590 align:middle line:84% My job was to analyze what happens 01:15:15.590 --> 01:15:24.230 align:middle line:84% if a small aircraft crashes into a containment structure. 01:15:24.230 --> 01:15:28.450 align:middle line:90% That was in 1979. 01:15:28.450 --> 01:15:32.080 align:middle line:84% I wound up being on a consultant list at the CIA 01:15:32.080 --> 01:15:34.780 align:middle line:90% for this kind of problem. 01:15:34.780 --> 01:15:40.430 align:middle line:90% It looks a lot like 911. 01:15:40.430 --> 01:15:45.590 align:middle line:84% So with that, then I conclude that we got some things to do. 01:15:45.590 --> 01:15:56.410 align:middle line:84% And those conclusions there, we've made all along. 01:15:56.410 --> 01:15:58.930 align:middle line:84% I think we need character development back. 01:15:58.930 --> 01:16:01.770 align:middle line:84% I think we need to define competency with good character. 01:16:01.770 --> 01:16:05.100 align:middle line:84% And the last part of it is that I think organizations 01:16:05.100 --> 01:16:06.180 align:middle line:90% have moral agency. 01:16:06.180 --> 01:16:08.315 align:middle line:84% And I will prove it before this class is over. 01:16:08.315 --> 01:16:09.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I was going to say, you 01:16:09.690 --> 01:16:11.107 align:middle line:84% convinced me when we first started 01:16:11.107 --> 01:16:13.680 align:middle line:84% the class that I really had a problem that didn't bother me. 01:16:13.680 --> 01:16:17.152 align:middle line:84% But I'm convinced now that it's possible for this organization. 01:16:17.152 --> 01:16:18.610 align:middle line:84% And one of the things I [INAUDIBLE] 01:16:18.610 --> 01:16:20.550 align:middle line:84% just talking about the internet is 01:16:20.550 --> 01:16:22.026 align:middle line:84% whether these conflicts [INAUDIBLE] 01:16:22.026 --> 01:16:24.538 align:middle line:84% engineer and design can have moral agency. 01:16:24.538 --> 01:16:26.830 align:middle line:84% I've been reading a lot of stuff on network neutrality. 01:16:26.830 --> 01:16:28.497 align:middle line:84% So you probably know a lot more about it 01:16:28.497 --> 01:16:30.495 align:middle line:84% and understand it a lot more than I do. 01:16:30.495 --> 01:16:32.870 align:middle line:84% So it kind of made me play with this idea of the internet 01:16:32.870 --> 01:16:34.850 align:middle line:90% being neutral and being ethical. 01:16:34.850 --> 01:16:35.640 align:middle line:90% It's fascinating. 01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:37.640 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: You going to write something on it? 01:16:37.640 --> 01:16:38.915 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Maybe. 01:16:38.915 --> 01:16:39.465 align:middle line:90% Maybe I will. 01:16:39.465 --> 01:16:41.090 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: All right, well, you got-- 01:16:41.090 --> 01:16:42.740 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] help me, Professor Broome, yeah, 01:16:42.740 --> 01:16:42.920 align:middle line:90% definitely. 01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:44.050 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Well, two of us will help. 01:16:44.050 --> 01:16:45.140 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 01:16:45.140 --> 01:16:46.410 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Yeah. 01:16:46.410 --> 01:16:48.213 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 01:16:48.213 --> 01:16:49.755 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Any questions, comments? 01:16:49.755 --> 01:16:55.104 align:middle line:90% 01:16:55.104 --> 01:16:58.353 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: This is a little bit outside of the presentation 01:16:58.353 --> 01:17:03.380 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] when you mentioned the term interdisciplinary, 01:17:03.380 --> 01:17:05.970 align:middle line:84% this is a discussion I've been having with a lot of people. 01:17:05.970 --> 01:17:07.428 align:middle line:84% How would you define the difference 01:17:07.428 --> 01:17:10.857 align:middle line:84% between multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary, or-- 01:17:10.857 --> 01:17:12.190 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Cross-disciplinary. 01:17:12.190 --> 01:17:12.640 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yeah. 01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:14.740 align:middle line:84% Transdisciplinary is a new one that I recently learned. 01:17:14.740 --> 01:17:15.740 align:middle line:90% TAFT BROOME: Right, yes. 01:17:15.740 --> 01:17:17.608 align:middle line:90% 01:17:17.608 --> 01:17:19.650 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: How are we going to define those terms? 01:17:19.650 --> 01:17:21.192 align:middle line:84% TAFT BROOME: Yeah, cross-disciplinary 01:17:21.192 --> 01:17:23.580 align:middle line:84% is when you use the tools and methods of one discipline 01:17:23.580 --> 01:17:26.190 align:middle line:90% to study the other one. 01:17:26.190 --> 01:17:27.780 align:middle line:84% Multidisciplinary is when you want 01:17:27.780 --> 01:17:29.910 align:middle line:84% to study a problem when both of the disciplines 01:17:29.910 --> 01:17:34.230 align:middle line:84% interact together to give you the solution. 01:17:34.230 --> 01:17:38.190 align:middle line:84% And interdisciplinary is when the two interact, 01:17:38.190 --> 01:17:41.640 align:middle line:84% but one has to give up a fundamental principle of it, 01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:43.932 align:middle line:84% of itself in order to solve the problem. 01:17:43.932 --> 01:17:45.390 align:middle line:84% In other words, the two disciplines 01:17:45.390 --> 01:17:46.650 align:middle line:90% do not remain intact. 01:17:46.650 --> 01:17:51.030 align:middle line:84% One of them loses something or is replaced by something else. 01:17:51.030 --> 01:17:53.760 align:middle line:90% 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:55.890 align:middle line:84% I have not talked about transdisciplinary, but only 01:17:55.890 --> 01:17:56.550 align:middle line:90% those three. 01:17:56.550 --> 01:17:58.670 align:middle line:84% And that's the way I have defined it.