WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.423 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:03.423 --> 00:00:15.650 align:middle line:90% 00:00:15.650 --> 00:00:17.270 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: Tonight, I want to try 00:00:17.270 --> 00:00:21.590 align:middle line:84% to pose the basic assumption behind the idea 00:00:21.590 --> 00:00:24.830 align:middle line:84% of facilitative leadership in the public sector 00:00:24.830 --> 00:00:29.550 align:middle line:84% and share a few terms, a few concepts. 00:00:29.550 --> 00:00:33.870 align:middle line:84% I want to give you a problem to think about at dinner, 00:00:33.870 --> 00:00:38.700 align:middle line:84% then ask you at your table to pursue the questions, 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:41.540 align:middle line:84% and then save about 10 minutes at the end 00:00:41.540 --> 00:00:44.210 align:middle line:84% to see if something different was happening 00:00:44.210 --> 00:00:46.110 align:middle line:90% at the different tables. 00:00:46.110 --> 00:00:50.900 align:middle line:84% But the key idea tonight is raise this question 00:00:50.900 --> 00:00:55.200 align:middle line:84% and offer some terms, some concepts. 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.870 align:middle line:84% The goal is to begin a conversation. 00:00:57.870 --> 00:01:01.650 align:middle line:84% If I had these ideas all worked out for myself, 00:01:01.650 --> 00:01:04.580 align:middle line:84% I would have written a book, but I definitely 00:01:04.580 --> 00:01:07.170 align:middle line:84% don't have all these ideas worked out. 00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:11.160 align:middle line:84% So my goal is to share some thoughts, 00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:15.020 align:middle line:84% provoke some conversation, ask you 00:01:15.020 --> 00:01:19.550 align:middle line:84% to continue the conversation in small groups, 00:01:19.550 --> 00:01:21.830 align:middle line:90% and then, all together. 00:01:21.830 --> 00:01:26.210 align:middle line:84% And I'm hoping that I can get you to write a couple 00:01:26.210 --> 00:01:28.470 align:middle line:84% pages at the end of the fourth week, 00:01:28.470 --> 00:01:30.840 align:middle line:84% or sooner, should you be motivated. 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.250 align:middle line:84% And that I can take all of those and work them 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:38.370 align:middle line:84% into the kind of summary or synthesis. 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:40.760 align:middle line:84% I will draft something and then encourage 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.330 align:middle line:84% anybody that contributed to continued to work, 00:01:44.330 --> 00:01:47.400 align:middle line:84% to take that draft, develop it further, 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.510 align:middle line:84% and have it be a departmental publication, which 00:01:50.510 --> 00:01:52.350 align:middle line:90% we don't have. 00:01:52.350 --> 00:01:55.410 align:middle line:84% But I don't see why we can't do that, 00:01:55.410 --> 00:01:58.730 align:middle line:84% because I think the question will continue 00:01:58.730 --> 00:02:01.720 align:middle line:90% to be of interest and concern. 00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:08.930 align:middle line:84% This all started last spring at the end of the semester. 00:02:08.930 --> 00:02:12.040 align:middle line:84% My course on negotiation and dispute resolution 00:02:12.040 --> 00:02:16.810 align:middle line:84% in the public sector said, I've looked around 00:02:16.810 --> 00:02:18.650 align:middle line:90% for leadership courses. 00:02:18.650 --> 00:02:20.570 align:middle line:84% They have them at the Kennedy School. 00:02:20.570 --> 00:02:22.640 align:middle line:84% They have them at the business school at Harvard. 00:02:22.640 --> 00:02:24.580 align:middle line:90% They have them at Sloan. 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:27.640 align:middle line:84% But they all seem to assume you're somebody working 00:02:27.640 --> 00:02:29.510 align:middle line:90% in a private organization. 00:02:29.510 --> 00:02:32.560 align:middle line:84% It's not the same thing as leadership 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:35.260 align:middle line:90% in the public context. 00:02:35.260 --> 00:02:39.220 align:middle line:84% Really, the assumption is, you're in an organization 00:02:39.220 --> 00:02:41.026 align:middle line:90% and it's a private organization. 00:02:41.026 --> 00:02:44.192 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:02:44.192 --> 00:02:46.000 align:middle line:90% 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.800 align:middle line:90% How do you manage as a leader? 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:53.590 align:middle line:84% There's nothing said differently about being in a leadership role 00:02:53.590 --> 00:02:55.190 align:middle line:90% in the public sector. 00:02:55.190 --> 00:02:57.530 align:middle line:90% And I think it's very different. 00:02:57.530 --> 00:03:00.110 align:middle line:84% That's what I'm trying to work out. 00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:01.820 align:middle line:90% In what ways is it different? 00:03:01.820 --> 00:03:06.910 align:middle line:84% Should all the basic assumptions be questioned about leadership, 00:03:06.910 --> 00:03:09.830 align:middle line:84% slash management of groups, organizations, 00:03:09.830 --> 00:03:13.070 align:middle line:90% networks in the public sector? 00:03:13.070 --> 00:03:17.440 align:middle line:84% I've spent 50 years working in dispute resolution 00:03:17.440 --> 00:03:20.950 align:middle line:84% in the public sector, in 30 countries. 00:03:20.950 --> 00:03:24.740 align:middle line:84% I want to think comparatively about this. 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:28.960 align:middle line:84% So please, do not constrain yourself unnecessarily 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:32.080 align:middle line:84% to imagine only something in a US context 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.350 align:middle line:84% when we're talking in table conversation. 00:03:36.350 --> 00:03:39.080 align:middle line:84% If you're thinking very much in your culture, 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:42.320 align:middle line:84% your context, your country, just say so. 00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:44.920 align:middle line:84% Don't not do it, but let everybody else 00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:47.560 align:middle line:84% know that you're starting from a different point 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:49.040 align:middle line:90% in the conversation. 00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:51.880 align:middle line:84% And I don't know about how far generalizations 00:03:51.880 --> 00:03:56.200 align:middle line:84% can go about the public sector when 00:03:56.200 --> 00:04:00.930 align:middle line:84% we switch from country and culture to country and culture. 00:04:00.930 --> 00:04:02.900 align:middle line:84% We'll see what you think about that. 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:03.960 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:09.840 align:middle line:84% Imagine a city government has appointed a task 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:14.160 align:middle line:84% force to give the city advice regarding 00:04:14.160 --> 00:04:16.440 align:middle line:84% the decision the city has to make, 00:04:16.440 --> 00:04:21.089 align:middle line:84% regarding the use of a particular piece of public land 00:04:21.089 --> 00:04:24.670 align:middle line:90% that was abandoned, not used. 00:04:24.670 --> 00:04:27.900 align:middle line:84% And now, there are multiple proposals 00:04:27.900 --> 00:04:31.240 align:middle line:84% for how it should be used within that neighborhood, 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.890 align:middle line:84% within the city, within the Metropolitan area. 00:04:34.890 --> 00:04:38.920 align:middle line:84% And the cities ask a task force of people. 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:44.280 align:middle line:84% The usual, the blue ribbon committee was announced, 00:04:44.280 --> 00:04:46.840 align:middle line:84% and a lot of folks yelled about that. 00:04:46.840 --> 00:04:49.230 align:middle line:90% And so more people got added. 00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:52.110 align:middle line:84% That was the solution to representation 00:04:52.110 --> 00:04:55.060 align:middle line:90% that that mayor chose. 00:04:55.060 --> 00:04:55.990 align:middle line:90% OK, fine. 00:04:55.990 --> 00:04:58.500 align:middle line:84% We'll just add more people, especially the ones who've 00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:00.570 align:middle line:90% made noise. 00:05:00.570 --> 00:05:02.880 align:middle line:90% You be on the committee. 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:07.200 align:middle line:84% Begging the question of the representativeness 00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:10.350 align:middle line:84% and thus the credibility of this group, 00:05:10.350 --> 00:05:13.110 align:middle line:90% and whatever it recommends. 00:05:13.110 --> 00:05:16.260 align:middle line:84% But since the city wasn't giving away final decision 00:05:16.260 --> 00:05:19.650 align:middle line:84% making authority, it was just asking for advice 00:05:19.650 --> 00:05:23.340 align:middle line:84% from a task force, didn't worry too much 00:05:23.340 --> 00:05:27.600 align:middle line:90% about representativeness. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:31.980 align:middle line:84% It didn't worry too much about credibility 00:05:31.980 --> 00:05:37.290 align:middle line:84% in the eyes of the groups that weren't at the table. 00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:43.380 align:middle line:84% And so this task force has been meeting. 00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:45.460 align:middle line:84% It didn't have much of a mandate. 00:05:45.460 --> 00:05:49.830 align:middle line:84% Just, we'd like your advice about this undeveloped parcel 00:05:49.830 --> 00:05:53.160 align:middle line:84% that's been sitting here for a long time. 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.130 align:middle line:84% What do you think city should do with it? 00:05:56.130 --> 00:06:00.222 align:middle line:84% And my question to you is, how would you 00:06:00.222 --> 00:06:03.020 align:middle line:84% know who's the real leader of that task force? 00:06:03.020 --> 00:06:06.020 align:middle line:90% They've met multiple times. 00:06:06.020 --> 00:06:10.770 align:middle line:84% They have whatever mandate they had from the mayor's office. 00:06:10.770 --> 00:06:18.800 align:middle line:84% How would we know who's the real leader of this 25-person group? 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.490 align:middle line:84% You could clearly tell that a couple of people 00:06:22.490 --> 00:06:26.810 align:middle line:84% had way more knowledge and experience with regard 00:06:26.810 --> 00:06:30.570 align:middle line:84% to the city, city politics, city planning, city development, 00:06:30.570 --> 00:06:32.310 align:middle line:90% real estate development. 00:06:32.310 --> 00:06:36.120 align:middle line:84% And they were showing it off in the conversation. 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:38.000 align:middle line:90% Did that make them the leader? 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:44.330 align:middle line:84% Or maybe we're listening, and one person, soft voice, 00:06:44.330 --> 00:06:50.310 align:middle line:84% not pushing hard at all on the substantive question, but says, 00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:53.000 align:middle line:84% well, I've been on a bunch of task forces 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.030 align:middle line:84% like this before in the city, and my sense 00:06:56.030 --> 00:06:58.310 align:middle line:84% is we ought to do this, this, and this, 00:06:58.310 --> 00:07:01.580 align:middle line:84% and use our time this way, and get 00:07:01.580 --> 00:07:04.310 align:middle line:84% the involvement of other people like so, and so, 00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:07.190 align:middle line:84% and so, and so, with the fact that person 00:07:07.190 --> 00:07:11.520 align:middle line:84% had the most experience in this kind of a role. 00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:14.760 align:middle line:84% Would that qualify them to be the leader? 00:07:14.760 --> 00:07:17.810 align:middle line:90% Would that make them the leader? 00:07:17.810 --> 00:07:19.820 align:middle line:84% There's one person who clearly is 00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:23.610 align:middle line:84% the workhorse on this committee, they're saying, 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:26.130 align:middle line:84% I'll take the notes, I'll work the flip chart, 00:07:26.130 --> 00:07:28.670 align:middle line:84% and they're making very clear that they're 00:07:28.670 --> 00:07:32.390 align:middle line:84% taking care of all the housekeeping chores 00:07:32.390 --> 00:07:36.200 align:middle line:84% and activities, almost like a secretary, keeping 00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:42.320 align:middle line:84% track of the ideas, and offering their own views along the way. 00:07:42.320 --> 00:07:46.490 align:middle line:84% Is the person willing to do the most work the leader? 00:07:46.490 --> 00:07:48.590 align:middle line:90% Who's the leader? 00:07:48.590 --> 00:07:53.870 align:middle line:84% Or are there just these leadership functions, 00:07:53.870 --> 00:07:58.480 align:middle line:84% and different people can all choose on their own 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.780 align:middle line:84% to play different functions, as long as the rest of the group 00:08:01.780 --> 00:08:02.840 align:middle line:90% accepts it? 00:08:02.840 --> 00:08:05.140 align:middle line:84% If we're in a corporate context, I 00:08:05.140 --> 00:08:09.190 align:middle line:84% promise you everyone would know who the leader of the group 00:08:09.190 --> 00:08:13.360 align:middle line:84% is, because whoever said there would be a meeting, whoever 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:17.890 align:middle line:84% said there would be a group appointed the person who 00:08:17.890 --> 00:08:21.130 align:middle line:90% was the head of the group. 00:08:21.130 --> 00:08:25.040 align:middle line:84% Doesn't happen that way most of the time. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:31.900 align:middle line:84% I'm talking about when the larger network of the public 00:08:31.900 --> 00:08:37.700 align:middle line:84% is tapped, and you're trying to organize in cities, 00:08:37.700 --> 00:08:39.679 align:middle line:90% trying to organize them. 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:47.080 align:middle line:84% Don't we need a theory of practice as urban planners, 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:49.870 align:middle line:84% with regard to how this leadership question should 00:08:49.870 --> 00:08:53.380 align:middle line:90% be handled in the public arena? 00:08:53.380 --> 00:08:56.290 align:middle line:90% It's just whatever happens? 00:08:56.290 --> 00:08:58.750 align:middle line:90% Mayor says, it's fine with me. 00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:02.950 align:middle line:84% The whole group can just collect their suggestions 00:09:02.950 --> 00:09:04.280 align:middle line:90% and send them to me. 00:09:04.280 --> 00:09:04.815 align:middle line:90% That's fine. 00:09:04.815 --> 00:09:06.880 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:12.200 align:middle line:84% As practitioners, I think we need a theory of practice. 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:13.610 align:middle line:90% Could be our own. 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:19.280 align:middle line:84% It could be the MIT theory of leadership, 00:09:19.280 --> 00:09:20.350 align:middle line:90% facilitative leadership. 00:09:20.350 --> 00:09:23.090 align:middle line:90% Could be your table's theory. 00:09:23.090 --> 00:09:26.260 align:middle line:84% But I don't see how, as planners, we just 00:09:26.260 --> 00:09:28.000 align:middle line:90% wander forward. 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.580 align:middle line:84% And we're going to be in so many situations in which 00:09:33.580 --> 00:09:40.180 align:middle line:84% ad hoc clusters of people are supposed 00:09:40.180 --> 00:09:43.850 align:middle line:90% to be doing the public's work. 00:09:43.850 --> 00:09:47.690 align:middle line:84% We're usually supposed to be involved in such things. 00:09:47.690 --> 00:09:52.810 align:middle line:84% And I think the key to that is to see yourself 00:09:52.810 --> 00:09:58.360 align:middle line:84% as a facilitative leader, providing a service, a service. 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.870 align:middle line:84% It's a service model of leadership, 00:10:01.870 --> 00:10:04.390 align:middle line:84% which I think is necessary in the public sector. 00:10:04.390 --> 00:10:07.810 align:middle line:84% But you can convince me that that's wrong. 00:10:07.810 --> 00:10:09.940 align:middle line:84% You have plenty of alternative models, 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:13.750 align:middle line:84% and that's why we're going to be having conversations about this. 00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:17.670 align:middle line:84% They need to be empathetic to the interests 00:10:17.670 --> 00:10:20.940 align:middle line:84% of the other people around the table. 00:10:20.940 --> 00:10:26.100 align:middle line:84% If you can't gin up empathy for the others and their quandaries 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:30.930 align:middle line:84% with regard to this, you'll never be a leader of that group. 00:10:30.930 --> 00:10:34.540 align:middle line:84% You have to be a capable, active listener. 00:10:34.540 --> 00:10:36.930 align:middle line:84% If you can't hear how far off you 00:10:36.930 --> 00:10:40.830 align:middle line:84% are about what's going on by listening to people, 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:46.170 align:middle line:84% talking to each other or to you, you won't succeed. 00:10:46.170 --> 00:10:49.800 align:middle line:84% You have to be able to read the group, 00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:53.820 align:middle line:84% to recognize underlying dynamics that 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:57.690 align:middle line:84% let you know more about the interests of the participants. 00:10:57.690 --> 00:11:01.150 align:middle line:84% This is not people raising their hand and saying something. 00:11:01.150 --> 00:11:07.240 align:middle line:84% Reading the group over many occasions, coalition building. 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:11.880 align:middle line:84% You can't keep treating it like a set of individuals who 00:11:11.880 --> 00:11:14.790 align:middle line:90% are only there for themselves. 00:11:14.790 --> 00:11:19.380 align:middle line:84% You have to help them begin to form coalitions. 00:11:19.380 --> 00:11:23.400 align:middle line:84% You cannot function in a service role if you cannot put aside 00:11:23.400 --> 00:11:24.490 align:middle line:90% your ego. 00:11:24.490 --> 00:11:26.980 align:middle line:84% You need to be able to take a long view. 00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:29.200 align:middle line:90% The group needs you to do that. 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.300 align:middle line:84% They're focused on the short term. 00:11:31.300 --> 00:11:35.610 align:middle line:84% I would argue the facilitator leader has to constantly be 00:11:35.610 --> 00:11:38.860 align:middle line:90% thinking about the long term. 00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:44.550 align:middle line:84% You have to be able to write the group's victory speech. 00:11:44.550 --> 00:11:49.030 align:middle line:84% You have to be able to draft that as the facilitative leader, 00:11:49.030 --> 00:11:51.120 align:middle line:84% because it has to take account of how it looks 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.270 align:middle line:90% from all of their standpoints. 00:11:53.270 --> 00:11:57.620 align:middle line:84% You have to promote organizational learning 00:11:57.620 --> 00:11:59.610 align:middle line:90% along the way. 00:11:59.610 --> 00:12:01.020 align:middle line:90% What didn't we do well? 00:12:01.020 --> 00:12:03.320 align:middle line:90% What did we do well? 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:05.790 align:middle line:90% Was that just this one time? 00:12:05.790 --> 00:12:07.730 align:middle line:84% Or is there something there we can 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:12.410 align:middle line:84% change about how we're working so we do better next time? 00:12:12.410 --> 00:12:16.800 align:middle line:84% But if someone is not focused on organizational learning, 00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:19.640 align:middle line:84% it will not just fall out naturally. 00:12:19.640 --> 00:12:22.580 align:middle line:84% Now, when I look at that list of, 00:12:22.580 --> 00:12:25.170 align:middle line:84% let's call them, skills, not micro skills, 00:12:25.170 --> 00:12:30.470 align:middle line:84% but capabilities, capacities, leads me to the conclusion-- 00:12:30.470 --> 00:12:32.660 align:middle line:84% may lead you to a different conclusion-- 00:12:32.660 --> 00:12:37.580 align:middle line:84% that facilitative leaders are made and not born. 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:43.610 align:middle line:84% I believe that the charismatic leader 00:12:43.610 --> 00:12:49.370 align:middle line:84% who provides vision, who provides inspiration, you 00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:51.810 align:middle line:84% might try really hard to become that. 00:12:51.810 --> 00:12:56.840 align:middle line:84% My sense is that charismatic leaders are born. 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:59.430 align:middle line:84% It's not that they don't do anything to improve themselves. 00:12:59.430 --> 00:13:03.740 align:middle line:84% I just don't think you can build yourself up piece by piece 00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:05.870 align:middle line:90% to become charismatic. 00:13:05.870 --> 00:13:09.140 align:middle line:84% I really do think that you're either lucky or not 00:13:09.140 --> 00:13:13.430 align:middle line:84% lucky to be endowed with that ability 00:13:13.430 --> 00:13:16.220 align:middle line:90% as an inspirational leader. 00:13:16.220 --> 00:13:19.580 align:middle line:84% Charismatic leaders, I think, are more 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:22.430 align:middle line:90% likely to be born than made. 00:13:22.430 --> 00:13:27.450 align:middle line:84% Paternalistic leaders, we can train them. 00:13:27.450 --> 00:13:31.820 align:middle line:84% I think Sloan and HBS do a great job. 00:13:31.820 --> 00:13:35.040 align:middle line:84% I can't deny they've made a whole lot of people like that. 00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:40.070 align:middle line:84% I would like to think that if we tried, 00:13:40.070 --> 00:13:44.690 align:middle line:84% DUSP could make a whole lot of facilitative leaders, people 00:13:44.690 --> 00:13:49.110 align:middle line:84% who are collaborative service providers in the public sector. 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:52.520 align:middle line:84% On this question of "Are facilitative leaders are made, 00:13:52.520 --> 00:13:53.770 align:middle line:90% not born?" 00:13:53.770 --> 00:13:57.580 align:middle line:84% I think facilitative leaders can be made. 00:13:57.580 --> 00:14:02.110 align:middle line:84% And there are people who, when it comes down to it, 00:14:02.110 --> 00:14:08.380 align:middle line:84% say yeah, a facilitative leader, can provide direction 00:14:08.380 --> 00:14:12.160 align:middle line:90% without taking control. 00:14:12.160 --> 00:14:14.740 align:middle line:84% They know that everyone has to be 00:14:14.740 --> 00:14:16.640 align:middle line:90% involved in all the decisions. 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:21.970 align:middle line:84% Leadership in the public sector requires different kinds 00:14:21.970 --> 00:14:25.060 align:middle line:84% of skills, orientation, and a different theory 00:14:25.060 --> 00:14:28.850 align:middle line:84% from leadership in private organizational contexts. 00:14:28.850 --> 00:14:35.290 align:middle line:84% I'm counting on the conversation over these four weeks 00:14:35.290 --> 00:14:41.860 align:middle line:84% to maybe make a case, the beginning of a case 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:47.260 align:middle line:84% to take to the Department and say, what exactly are you hoping 00:14:47.260 --> 00:14:50.440 align:middle line:90% I'm going to turn out to be? 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:51.890 align:middle line:90% Don't tell me, planner. 00:14:51.890 --> 00:14:53.600 align:middle line:90% That just doesn't do it. 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.040 align:middle line:90% It has to be more than that. 00:14:57.040 --> 00:15:01.240 align:middle line:84% So we break for dinner, and then I 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:07.360 align:middle line:84% will ask you to consider some of the questions 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.320 align:middle line:90% from within what I presented. 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.710 align:middle line:84% I'm hoping to get from each of you, 00:15:11.710 --> 00:15:16.920 align:middle line:84% by the end of week four, some reflection on this proposition 00:15:16.920 --> 00:15:17.670 align:middle line:90% that I'm offering. 00:15:17.670 --> 00:15:20.822 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:15:20.822 --> 00:15:27.040 align:middle line:90% 00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:29.950 align:middle line:84% So public-private, any difference? 00:15:29.950 --> 00:15:31.220 align:middle line:90% Important difference? 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:31.900 align:middle line:90% Always? 00:15:31.900 --> 00:15:32.750 align:middle line:90% Sometimes? 00:15:32.750 --> 00:15:33.400 align:middle line:90% Maybe? 00:15:33.400 --> 00:15:38.800 align:middle line:84% Second question, facilitative leaders are made, not born. 00:15:38.800 --> 00:15:40.600 align:middle line:90% Does that sound right to you? 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:44.170 align:middle line:84% And anybody become a facilitative leader? 00:15:44.170 --> 00:15:45.370 align:middle line:90% I mean leader. 00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:47.870 align:middle line:84% I don't just mean a facilitative person. 00:15:47.870 --> 00:15:51.550 align:middle line:90% So made, not born. 00:15:51.550 --> 00:15:54.180 align:middle line:90% Public versus private. 00:15:54.180 --> 00:15:59.460 align:middle line:84% And can you really construe leadership as service? 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:02.230 align:middle line:84% Can you say I'm a leader, I'm providing service, 00:16:02.230 --> 00:16:03.640 align:middle line:90% that's what I'm doing? 00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:06.060 align:middle line:84% Service in the public interest, that's 00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:10.380 align:middle line:84% the dominant consideration in thinking about leadership 00:16:10.380 --> 00:16:11.350 align:middle line:90% in the public sector. 00:16:11.350 --> 00:16:15.490 align:middle line:84% Can you imagine yourself in a service role, 00:16:15.490 --> 00:16:20.520 align:middle line:84% someone who's recognized for the service they 00:16:20.520 --> 00:16:22.930 align:middle line:90% provide in the public arena? 00:16:22.930 --> 00:16:26.220 align:middle line:90% So I offer those three points. 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:28.210 align:middle line:90% See where the discussion goes. 00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:29.890 align:middle line:90% Take 20 minutes. 00:16:29.890 --> 00:16:31.810 align:middle line:90% Meet somebody you don't know. 00:16:31.810 --> 00:16:34.690 align:middle line:84% Talk to someone you do know and you never get to talk to. 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:37.070 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:16:37.070 --> 00:16:38.820 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: One of my managers was like, you 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:43.050 align:middle line:84% need to have the confidence to assert, and make a decision 00:16:43.050 --> 00:16:46.350 align:middle line:84% and move forward with it, rather than trying to make everything 00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:48.250 align:middle line:90% a collective decision. 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:50.260 align:middle line:84% When you're like, they're leading a group. 00:16:50.260 --> 00:16:53.250 align:middle line:84% And I do think there's kind of a gender dynamic involved 00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:54.360 align:middle line:90% in that where-- 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.347 align:middle line:84% and I felt like I was younger in the office. 00:16:56.347 --> 00:16:57.930 align:middle line:84% I felt like, oh, I should be deferring 00:16:57.930 --> 00:17:00.660 align:middle line:84% to all of the other people in this group 00:17:00.660 --> 00:17:02.350 align:middle line:90% in order to make decisions. 00:17:02.350 --> 00:17:04.470 align:middle line:84% I do think women may be socialized 00:17:04.470 --> 00:17:09.912 align:middle line:84% to be more facilitative, rather than paternal or top down. 00:17:09.912 --> 00:17:11.829 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I don't want to say caretaking role, 00:17:11.829 --> 00:17:15.490 align:middle line:84% but it does begin to feel like you're nurturing consensus, 00:17:15.490 --> 00:17:18.690 align:middle line:84% sort of tending to everyone's needs, as opposed 00:17:18.690 --> 00:17:21.369 align:middle line:90% to achieving the best solution. 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:24.339 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: It kind of feels like herding cats sometimes, 00:17:24.339 --> 00:17:27.329 align:middle line:84% and there is a lot of emotional labor 00:17:27.329 --> 00:17:31.770 align:middle line:84% involved, understanding social dynamics, and power 00:17:31.770 --> 00:17:35.440 align:middle line:84% and political dynamics, sometimes even-- 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.704 align:middle line:90% I don't know-- babysitting. 00:17:37.704 --> 00:17:38.680 align:middle line:90% You know? 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:39.660 align:middle line:90% You know? 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:43.320 align:middle line:84% It doesn't feel like a sexy leader role. 00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:45.100 align:middle line:90% It's definitely not. 00:17:45.100 --> 00:17:47.610 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think if you're delivering a product, as opposed 00:17:47.610 --> 00:17:50.930 align:middle line:84% to a service, you don't have to have much empathy. 00:17:50.930 --> 00:17:53.550 align:middle line:84% You just need drive and ambition. 00:17:53.550 --> 00:17:58.010 align:middle line:84% But if you're leaning into process, 00:17:58.010 --> 00:18:00.740 align:middle line:84% which I think is the nature of facilitation, 00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:05.310 align:middle line:84% you need to be patient with folks to provide the service. 00:18:05.310 --> 00:18:09.320 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I feel like this can be very easily underappreciated, 00:18:09.320 --> 00:18:10.890 align:middle line:90% this kind of service. 00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:13.280 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I feel like maybe leadership 00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:19.070 align:middle line:84% does contain a meaning of achieving on a consensus. 00:18:19.070 --> 00:18:22.260 align:middle line:84% We still need to lead people to somewhere. 00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:25.400 align:middle line:84% Public sector is trying to achieve or best 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:29.270 align:middle line:84% serve public interest by incorporating different voices 00:18:29.270 --> 00:18:33.110 align:middle line:84% from multi stakeholders. but for private corporate, 00:18:33.110 --> 00:18:36.170 align:middle line:84% they have a clear vision or a clear goal 00:18:36.170 --> 00:18:39.140 align:middle line:84% that I want to create this product. 00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:43.010 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: There is no involvement of the community 00:18:43.010 --> 00:18:44.400 align:middle line:90% in what we are doing. 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.060 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The governance is different than probably 00:18:47.060 --> 00:18:49.790 align:middle line:84% the skills that you may need in terms of leadership. 00:18:49.790 --> 00:18:52.910 align:middle line:84% They may have commonalities, but I 00:18:52.910 --> 00:18:54.930 align:middle line:84% do believe that there are certain differences. 00:18:54.930 --> 00:18:59.300 align:middle line:84% My perception is that the private sector is more vertical, 00:18:59.300 --> 00:19:03.300 align:middle line:84% and it's more based on appointments and authorities. 00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:06.870 align:middle line:84% And in the public sector, in my experience, 00:19:06.870 --> 00:19:09.327 align:middle line:84% you may need a lot more influence. 00:19:09.327 --> 00:19:10.910 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In the public sector, what's 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:12.650 align:middle line:84% more dangerous is that you're kind 00:19:12.650 --> 00:19:15.090 align:middle line:84% of putting on this facade of, this is the public. 00:19:15.090 --> 00:19:17.720 align:middle line:84% But then the mechanisms there don't allow people 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.700 align:middle line:90% to equally come to the table. 00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:22.250 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The trust of the public and private sectors 00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:22.890 align:middle line:90% are different. 00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:25.280 align:middle line:84% The nature of leadership should be different. 00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:28.670 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: How do you think managing people differs 00:19:28.670 --> 00:19:29.990 align:middle line:90% in the public sector? 00:19:29.990 --> 00:19:32.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Many South European countries, you 00:19:32.510 --> 00:19:34.923 align:middle line:90% have to play a low profile. 00:19:34.923 --> 00:19:35.840 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: As a leader. 00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:37.460 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: No, as an individual that 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:38.760 align:middle line:90% wants to aspire as a leader. 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:41.347 align:middle line:90% I have a hard time here. 00:19:41.347 --> 00:19:42.180 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: In the US. 00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:43.555 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: In the US particularly. 00:19:43.555 --> 00:19:47.530 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I've been working 20 years with an Anglo-Saxon organization 00:19:47.530 --> 00:19:48.520 align:middle line:90% that's with the UN. 00:19:48.520 --> 00:19:51.350 align:middle line:84% And I think that this doesn't work in other cultures, 00:19:51.350 --> 00:19:52.588 align:middle line:90% in many cultures. 00:19:52.588 --> 00:19:54.130 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think it's very difficult 00:19:54.130 --> 00:19:57.170 align:middle line:84% to transpose these styles of leadership wholesale. 00:19:57.170 --> 00:19:59.740 align:middle line:84% But by developing these skills, you 00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:02.650 align:middle line:84% can eventually be bestowed the power by the community, 00:20:02.650 --> 00:20:04.750 align:middle line:84% because they see that you are ready to show up. 00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:06.760 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And you are aligned to their values. 00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:08.000 align:middle line:90% And that's very important. 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.020 align:middle line:84% In Japan, for example, they have a hard time partnering 00:20:11.020 --> 00:20:12.740 align:middle line:90% and negotiating with Americans. 00:20:12.740 --> 00:20:17.337 align:middle line:84% They are self-confident and outspoken, and they are bold. 00:20:17.337 --> 00:20:17.920 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Yes. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.530 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And this boldness which, here is considering 00:20:20.530 --> 00:20:23.990 align:middle line:84% a skill and something positive, you are confident with yourself, 00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:25.880 align:middle line:84% which don't take me wrong, it's not bad, 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.570 align:middle line:84% in certain cultures could be considered arrogant. 00:20:28.570 --> 00:20:31.968 align:middle line:84% And it's important to play a more low profile role. 00:20:31.968 --> 00:20:33.760 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So how does that vary when you're 00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:35.450 align:middle line:90% in that particular world? 00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:38.478 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: That is one of the places is empathy. 00:20:38.478 --> 00:20:40.270 align:middle line:84% You are reading the room and you understand 00:20:40.270 --> 00:20:42.020 align:middle line:84% that, for example, in the Nordic countries, 00:20:42.020 --> 00:20:43.340 align:middle line:90% people don't want you to shine. 00:20:43.340 --> 00:20:44.630 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Ah, that's interesting. 00:20:44.630 --> 00:20:45.740 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: People don't want to shine. 00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:47.323 align:middle line:84% The power of the many Nordic countries 00:20:47.323 --> 00:20:50.510 align:middle line:84% is the community itself, while here in the United States, 00:20:50.510 --> 00:20:52.870 align:middle line:84% I can see that this distinction-- 00:20:52.870 --> 00:20:55.220 align:middle line:84% and you can see that in movies and narratives-- 00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:56.780 align:middle line:90% a leader is someone that shines. 00:20:56.780 --> 00:20:59.060 align:middle line:84% That concept of leadership doesn't apply everywhere. 00:20:59.060 --> 00:21:01.670 align:middle line:84% For us Norwegians, working in Japan is perfect. 00:21:01.670 --> 00:21:03.830 align:middle line:84% But Americans, they always have a clash. 00:21:03.830 --> 00:21:07.000 align:middle line:84% Certain communities are more silent. 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.378 align:middle line:84% Some things, you don't have to discuss. 00:21:09.378 --> 00:21:11.420 align:middle line:84% And I'm not saying that they are better or worse. 00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:13.795 align:middle line:84% There are certain communities that they have other values 00:21:13.795 --> 00:21:16.190 align:middle line:90% than the financial things. 00:21:16.190 --> 00:21:17.690 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: This goes for public fans. 00:21:17.690 --> 00:21:19.810 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of times, you're rewarded 00:21:19.810 --> 00:21:22.160 align:middle line:84% for just doing your current job well, 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.030 align:middle line:84% which allows you to start out as like a technical skill. 00:21:25.030 --> 00:21:27.610 align:middle line:84% And then you can get promoted to a manager role of people 00:21:27.610 --> 00:21:28.850 align:middle line:90% who do that technical stuff. 00:21:28.850 --> 00:21:31.090 align:middle line:84% But you're not taught how to be a manager 00:21:31.090 --> 00:21:33.620 align:middle line:84% and how to support people, how to develop their skill set. 00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:36.850 align:middle line:84% You're just really good at that level of what you do. 00:21:36.850 --> 00:21:39.560 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Things like empathy and being a good listener 00:21:39.560 --> 00:21:41.720 align:middle line:90% are things that might get-- 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.885 align:middle line:84% I don't know-- kind of not embody those qualities as much. 00:21:44.885 --> 00:21:46.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Yeah, I'd honestly love 00:21:46.260 --> 00:21:50.560 align:middle line:84% to talk about the efficiency piece in the public sector, 00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:53.520 align:middle line:84% because cost efficiency is usually one of the biggest 00:21:53.520 --> 00:21:54.600 align:middle line:90% conversations. 00:21:54.600 --> 00:21:59.252 align:middle line:84% Then efficiency isn't articulated as prize-worthy. 00:21:59.252 --> 00:22:01.710 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: Anything come up that anybody felt strongly 00:22:01.710 --> 00:22:04.770 align:middle line:84% about, or any of those three issues? 00:22:04.770 --> 00:22:08.460 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The concept of leadership as a service. 00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:10.560 align:middle line:90% And we kind of had-- 00:22:10.560 --> 00:22:12.330 align:middle line:84% maybe this is a philosophical question 00:22:12.330 --> 00:22:17.290 align:middle line:84% about whether there's such thing as selfless leadership. 00:22:17.290 --> 00:22:20.730 align:middle line:84% Or is everyone always in the back of their minds, 00:22:20.730 --> 00:22:23.280 align:middle line:84% doing something for their own benefit? 00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:26.620 align:middle line:84% Even if you are facilitating, trying to be a facilitator, 00:22:26.620 --> 00:22:29.280 align:middle line:84% where do you get a little ego rush 00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:35.550 align:middle line:84% when you make something happen, are we all at DUSP because we 00:22:35.550 --> 00:22:39.150 align:middle line:84% truly want to change the world, or because we think that we're 00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:41.430 align:middle line:90% important enough to do that? 00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:42.540 align:middle line:90% LARRY SUSSKIND: Thank you. 00:22:42.540 --> 00:22:45.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Thanks for the existential crisis. 00:22:45.510 --> 00:22:49.380 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Those who have some charismatic characteristics will 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:51.790 align:middle line:90% naturally be a better leader. 00:22:51.790 --> 00:22:54.750 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So we opened up by discussing 00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:57.690 align:middle line:84% the question of whether facilitative leaders are 00:22:57.690 --> 00:22:59.410 align:middle line:90% made or born. 00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:04.230 align:middle line:84% And we talked a little bit about the role of gender, and race, 00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:06.880 align:middle line:90% and sexuality in this question. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.820 align:middle line:84% Just kind of speaking from my experience, 00:23:08.820 --> 00:23:11.550 align:middle line:84% being a woman in the public sector, I found myself 00:23:11.550 --> 00:23:14.670 align:middle line:84% deferring to a more facilitative form of leadership, 00:23:14.670 --> 00:23:18.000 align:middle line:84% when maybe being a little bit more assertive 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.150 align:middle line:84% or taking on more of a decision making role 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:22.890 align:middle line:90% would have been better. 00:23:22.890 --> 00:23:27.690 align:middle line:84% So I think that yeah, thinking about the social dynamics around 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:32.020 align:middle line:84% whether someone is innately facilitative is important. 00:23:32.020 --> 00:23:34.390 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A lot of the time in public settings, 00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:37.650 align:middle line:84% there's apprehension to take that more decision making 00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:42.600 align:middle line:84% position, just because that's maybe not the role 00:23:42.600 --> 00:23:44.610 align:middle line:84% that we've historically occupied. 00:23:44.610 --> 00:23:51.950 align:middle line:84% And so we defer to, potentially, more caretaking, more nurturing, 00:23:51.950 --> 00:23:54.330 align:middle line:84% I guess, function in decision making. 00:23:54.330 --> 00:23:56.870 align:middle line:84% So we tend to build in consensus, 00:23:56.870 --> 00:24:00.290 align:middle line:84% rather than delegate responsibility or asserting 00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:02.750 align:middle line:90% expertise in a realm. 00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:06.050 align:middle line:84% Because if you don't look like the decision maker, oftentimes 00:24:06.050 --> 00:24:08.490 align:middle line:84% your credibility could be reckoned, 00:24:08.490 --> 00:24:10.680 align:middle line:90% challenged, pushed back against. 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:14.120 align:middle line:84% And so the next best thing is often 00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:17.390 align:middle line:84% to maybe opt for facilitation instead, especially 00:24:17.390 --> 00:24:19.670 align:middle line:84% in a public setting, when sometimes it 00:24:19.670 --> 00:24:23.400 align:middle line:84% can be hard to corral really competing interests. 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.180 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: OK, we have a very interesting discussion around-- 00:24:26.180 --> 00:24:28.340 align:middle line:84% we may have in our minds a concept 00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:31.310 align:middle line:84% of leader that perhaps is not shared 00:24:31.310 --> 00:24:33.140 align:middle line:90% with other parts of the world. 00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:34.880 align:middle line:84% And I think that this is very important 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.220 align:middle line:84% where we are defining some of the skills that 00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:39.920 align:middle line:84% makes a leader, because we are still, especially 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:42.200 align:middle line:84% in certain communities, certain societies, 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:46.070 align:middle line:84% create a narrative in certain communities, what leadership 00:24:46.070 --> 00:24:46.920 align:middle line:90% should be. 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:51.800 align:middle line:84% We discover that leaders are made by the legitimacy 00:24:51.800 --> 00:24:53.610 align:middle line:84% that the community give to someone. 00:24:53.610 --> 00:24:56.300 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: What legitimizes the leader 00:24:56.300 --> 00:24:59.510 align:middle line:84% and gives them that capacity, that authority 00:24:59.510 --> 00:25:01.620 align:middle line:90% to influence all those folks? 00:25:01.620 --> 00:25:04.490 align:middle line:84% Usually, we see the arrow going the other way, which 00:25:04.490 --> 00:25:07.100 align:middle line:84% is, the legitimacy of the leader is 00:25:07.100 --> 00:25:11.430 align:middle line:84% a function of the support of the population in the public arena. 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:17.420 align:middle line:84% So the arrow goes from the constituency to the leader. 00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:21.050 align:middle line:90% It's providing legitimacy. 00:25:21.050 --> 00:25:23.330 align:middle line:84% And yet we're crediting the leader 00:25:23.330 --> 00:25:26.900 align:middle line:84% with providing direction and helping everybody 00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:28.710 align:middle line:90% see what they're going to do. 00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:33.900 align:middle line:84% So if we talk about legitimacy and sources of legitimacy, 00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:39.060 align:middle line:84% and we talk about authority and the sources of authority, 00:25:39.060 --> 00:25:41.940 align:middle line:84% then we can certainly compare public and private. 00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:44.330 align:middle line:84% There are very different sources of legitimacy, 00:25:44.330 --> 00:25:45.770 align:middle line:90% sources of authority. 00:25:45.770 --> 00:25:49.210 align:middle line:84% If we talk about responsibility, comparing leaders 00:25:49.210 --> 00:25:51.790 align:middle line:84% in the private sector versus leaders 00:25:51.790 --> 00:25:54.710 align:middle line:84% in the public sector, what's their responsibility, 00:25:54.710 --> 00:25:57.470 align:middle line:90% clearly, it's different. 00:25:57.470 --> 00:26:00.250 align:middle line:84% So if you begin to pile up these differences 00:26:00.250 --> 00:26:04.000 align:middle line:84% and you say, all right, so how is this public sector 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.667 align:middle line:84% leader leading to get a different source of authority, 00:26:08.667 --> 00:26:10.750 align:middle line:84% a different source of legitimacy, different nature 00:26:10.750 --> 00:26:13.180 align:middle line:84% of responsibility, forget about the skills 00:26:13.180 --> 00:26:14.450 align:middle line:90% they have or don't have. 00:26:14.450 --> 00:26:16.690 align:middle line:84% There's a big difference, I think. 00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:19.690 align:middle line:84% Now, we could say, oh, you're just saying that because you're 00:26:19.690 --> 00:26:23.030 align:middle line:84% looking at it from a Western perspective, 00:26:23.030 --> 00:26:26.720 align:middle line:84% or you're looking at it from a US perspective. 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:29.560 align:middle line:84% And that may be, although, when I 00:26:29.560 --> 00:26:32.110 align:middle line:84% look at the sources of legitimacy 00:26:32.110 --> 00:26:36.170 align:middle line:84% for leaders in some different countries, I can't find out-- 00:26:36.170 --> 00:26:38.740 align:middle line:84% I can't figure out what they are. 00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:45.170 align:middle line:84% People have taken leadership, and legitimacy wasn't the issue. 00:26:45.170 --> 00:26:47.360 align:middle line:90% They took the leadership. 00:26:47.360 --> 00:26:50.200 align:middle line:84% I'm not saying they worked against an electoral process 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:51.830 align:middle line:90% in a democratic context. 00:26:51.830 --> 00:26:54.760 align:middle line:84% I'm saying, but what gave them credibility 00:26:54.760 --> 00:26:58.910 align:middle line:84% as a leader wasn't just that they were elected, my goodness. 00:26:58.910 --> 00:27:04.930 align:middle line:84% That something else gave them credibility, gave them the right 00:27:04.930 --> 00:27:06.910 align:middle line:90% to exercise authority. 00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:11.210 align:middle line:84% And I'm wondering what their sense of responsibility was. 00:27:11.210 --> 00:27:12.880 align:middle line:84% I know that those three things are 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.730 align:middle line:84% different when I talk to and watch 00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:19.000 align:middle line:84% leaders in the public arena, versus leadership 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:20.450 align:middle line:90% in a private company. 00:27:20.450 --> 00:27:25.090 align:middle line:84% And we didn't get to discuss what you 00:27:25.090 --> 00:27:28.180 align:middle line:90% mean by the public interest. 00:27:28.180 --> 00:27:32.650 align:middle line:84% We're presuming the responsibility partly 00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:34.910 align:middle line:90% to the public's interest. 00:27:34.910 --> 00:27:38.620 align:middle line:84% That's part, at least, of what a leader in the public sector 00:27:38.620 --> 00:27:39.890 align:middle line:90% has to do. 00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:43.800 align:middle line:84% And then where do they get satisfaction, the questions 00:27:43.800 --> 00:27:45.400 align:middle line:90% that you raised first? 00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:47.430 align:middle line:84% What do they think success means, 00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:49.000 align:middle line:90% and what does it give them? 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.550 align:middle line:90% What does it generate for them? 00:27:51.550 --> 00:27:56.530 align:middle line:84% I said earlier that if you take service seriously as a model, 00:27:56.530 --> 00:27:59.220 align:middle line:84% that you would include in that the ability to put 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:00.550 align:middle line:90% your ego aside. 00:28:00.550 --> 00:28:02.620 align:middle line:90% I don't mean you have no ego. 00:28:02.620 --> 00:28:07.120 align:middle line:84% I mean the issue is, when I rank my responsibilities, 00:28:07.120 --> 00:28:08.310 align:middle line:90% what's first? 00:28:08.310 --> 00:28:10.530 align:middle line:84% And when there's a trade off, what's 00:28:10.530 --> 00:28:14.830 align:middle line:84% dominant, and over time, consistently? 00:28:14.830 --> 00:28:18.900 align:middle line:84% And my sense is that we've got to talk 00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:24.000 align:middle line:84% about being an effective leader who 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.900 align:middle line:84% can meet the public interest, but also, there's 00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:32.350 align:middle line:84% satisfaction that comes from being effective in that role. 00:28:32.350 --> 00:28:33.880 align:middle line:90% And that's for that person. 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:35.680 align:middle line:84% I don't mean to erase any of that 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:40.360 align:middle line:84% when I talk about service as the primary model. 00:28:40.360 --> 00:28:45.610 align:middle line:84% Yes, people still will pursue the things that satisfy them, 00:28:45.610 --> 00:28:47.940 align:middle line:84% that they're going to be motivated, not just 00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:52.300 align:middle line:84% by being in service, not just by meeting the public interest, 00:28:52.300 --> 00:28:55.840 align:middle line:84% but by doing a good job being recognized for that. 00:28:55.840 --> 00:29:01.830 align:middle line:84% It's just, what's got priority when trade offs have to be made? 00:29:01.830 --> 00:29:06.340 align:middle line:90% What's the primary objective? 00:29:06.340 --> 00:29:07.540 align:middle line:90% We'll come back to them. 00:29:07.540 --> 00:29:13.930 align:middle line:84% But born versus made, public versus private, 00:29:13.930 --> 00:29:16.800 align:middle line:84% when we make these distinctions, do we 00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:21.630 align:middle line:84% end up with a model of a leader that we would admire 00:29:21.630 --> 00:29:26.130 align:middle line:90% in any country in the world? 00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:27.280 align:middle line:90% Maybe not. 00:29:27.280 --> 00:29:30.630 align:middle line:84% Maybe there's just radical differences by culture, 00:29:30.630 --> 00:29:33.040 align:middle line:90% and context and location. 00:29:33.040 --> 00:29:37.380 align:middle line:84% I'm very prepared to hear that that's a view that's 00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:38.710 align:middle line:90% come out of everybody. 00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:42.650 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The levels of governance, power relationships 00:29:42.650 --> 00:29:46.940 align:middle line:84% and power dynamics, responsibility, and even impact 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.190 align:middle line:84% that the public and private sector may have, 00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:55.490 align:middle line:84% they also will be reflected on some skills and characteristics 00:29:55.490 --> 00:29:58.560 align:middle line:84% that will be shared by both of them. 00:29:58.560 --> 00:30:01.250 align:middle line:84% But there are certain characteristics and skills 00:30:01.250 --> 00:30:04.580 align:middle line:84% and nuanced in even a political sense 00:30:04.580 --> 00:30:07.160 align:middle line:84% that you will need in the public sector more than 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.380 align:middle line:84% in the private sector, in order to move forward initiatives, 00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:13.550 align:middle line:84% in order to create consensus, in order to engage 00:30:13.550 --> 00:30:16.310 align:middle line:90% with different communities. 00:30:16.310 --> 00:30:21.290 align:middle line:84% So we thought that it could be a little bit more 00:30:21.290 --> 00:30:24.350 align:middle line:84% complex in the public sector, and therefore those skills 00:30:24.350 --> 00:30:26.390 align:middle line:90% must be enhanced. 00:30:26.390 --> 00:30:28.670 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Something that we discussed 00:30:28.670 --> 00:30:32.030 align:middle line:84% is the difference in the public sector versus the private sector 00:30:32.030 --> 00:30:34.190 align:middle line:84% of the accountability measures, and how, 00:30:34.190 --> 00:30:37.920 align:middle line:84% in a lot of different contexts across the world, 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.160 align:middle line:84% the public sector, a big fault is 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.620 align:middle line:84% that you might have a good relationship with people 00:30:42.620 --> 00:30:45.030 align:middle line:84% that you're interacting with through a public process. 00:30:45.030 --> 00:30:48.470 align:middle line:84% But if there is no tangible outcome 00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:51.180 align:middle line:84% that people see from their time and efforts, 00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:53.600 align:middle line:84% people are going to be frustrated and disempowered 00:30:53.600 --> 00:30:54.810 align:middle line:90% by the process. 00:30:54.810 --> 00:30:56.810 align:middle line:84% And then they'll be much less likely 00:30:56.810 --> 00:31:00.210 align:middle line:84% or even refuse to participate again. 00:31:00.210 --> 00:31:04.370 align:middle line:84% And in the private sector, that is just not really something 00:31:04.370 --> 00:31:07.340 align:middle line:84% that people have to navigate because the accountability is 00:31:07.340 --> 00:31:09.680 align:middle line:84% already built into the leadership role. 00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:11.510 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: And then we talked a little bit 00:31:11.510 --> 00:31:15.750 align:middle line:84% about the leaders, facilitative leaders that are made or born. 00:31:15.750 --> 00:31:18.770 align:middle line:84% And I think collectively, we did talk about they're 00:31:18.770 --> 00:31:22.850 align:middle line:84% mostly made, because a lot of qualities that you did point 00:31:22.850 --> 00:31:24.950 align:middle line:84% out, like empathy, or active listening, 00:31:24.950 --> 00:31:28.500 align:middle line:84% or putting your ego aside, or organizational learning, 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:31.850 align:middle line:84% I feel like are things you learn by actually interacting 00:31:31.850 --> 00:31:35.460 align:middle line:84% with people, by doing this again and again, this process. 00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:38.300 align:middle line:84% We need to stop thinking of this one person needs 00:31:38.300 --> 00:31:41.290 align:middle line:84% to have all of these qualities, and maybe just think along 00:31:41.290 --> 00:31:44.890 align:middle line:84% the lines of how you can continue to do it better. 00:31:44.890 --> 00:31:46.070 align:middle line:90% LARRY SUSSKIND: Thank you. 00:31:46.070 --> 00:31:47.800 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:31:47.800 --> 00:31:51.910 align:middle line:84% We'll meet again same time next week. 00:31:51.910 --> 00:31:54.940 align:middle line:84% Think about your own view of what 00:31:54.940 --> 00:31:58.580 align:middle line:84% makes a leader in the public sector successful. 00:31:58.580 --> 00:32:00.080 align:middle line:90% So do think about that. 00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:02.150 align:middle line:84% Thank you all so much for coming, 00:32:02.150 --> 00:32:04.030 align:middle line:90% and we'll see you next week. 00:32:04.030 --> 00:32:05.930 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:32:05.930 --> 00:32:06.430 align:middle line:90% 00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.780 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:32:09.780 --> 00:32:39.000 align:middle line:90%