WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.485 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:02.485 --> 00:00:10.843 align:middle line:90% 00:00:10.843 --> 00:00:12.260 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: The fourth session 00:00:12.260 --> 00:00:17.190 align:middle line:84% is to talk about you in a facilitative leader's role. 00:00:17.190 --> 00:00:20.840 align:middle line:84% Do you imagine yourself stepping into a leader 00:00:20.840 --> 00:00:23.340 align:middle line:90% role in a public sector? 00:00:23.340 --> 00:00:27.860 align:middle line:84% Do you think you need to develop additional skills 00:00:27.860 --> 00:00:30.630 align:middle line:84% or capabilities before you would do that? 00:00:30.630 --> 00:00:33.780 align:middle line:84% Do you know for sure you will never do that? 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:38.210 align:middle line:84% I want the discussion to be about each person imagining 00:00:38.210 --> 00:00:39.270 align:middle line:90% themselves. 00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:44.540 align:middle line:84% Yes or no, maybe, but only if in a leadership 00:00:44.540 --> 00:00:47.899 align:middle line:90% role in the public arena. 00:00:47.899 --> 00:00:50.394 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:50.394 --> 00:01:22.870 align:middle line:90% 00:01:22.870 --> 00:01:27.430 align:middle line:84% In the negotiation field, we often teach about the need 00:01:27.430 --> 00:01:31.690 align:middle line:84% to be able to self-regulate between empathy 00:01:31.690 --> 00:01:33.560 align:middle line:90% and assertiveness. 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:38.170 align:middle line:84% We make that distinction and we make that connection 00:01:38.170 --> 00:01:41.500 align:middle line:84% because in most negotiations, we think 00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:45.340 align:middle line:84% it's important to hear what the other side's concerns 00:01:45.340 --> 00:01:47.380 align:middle line:84% and interests are so that you can 00:01:47.380 --> 00:01:52.460 align:middle line:84% find a way of responding to them in exchange for reciprocity. 00:01:52.460 --> 00:01:56.210 align:middle line:84% But if you can't listen, can't hear, 00:01:56.210 --> 00:02:00.780 align:middle line:84% can't empathize with their concerns, 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:03.680 align:middle line:84% it's unlikely you'll suggest something 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:08.130 align:middle line:84% that meets their interests, meets their needs and yours. 00:02:08.130 --> 00:02:11.420 align:middle line:84% We tend to think of empathy as something 00:02:11.420 --> 00:02:15.030 align:middle line:84% we pour out with people we care about. 00:02:15.030 --> 00:02:21.500 align:middle line:84% But in this leadership / negotiation / consensus building 00:02:21.500 --> 00:02:28.940 align:middle line:84% context, we argue that you need to be able to up the empathy 00:02:28.940 --> 00:02:32.810 align:middle line:84% quotient in order to be able to create enough 00:02:32.810 --> 00:02:39.480 align:middle line:84% of a relationship with the others to hear their concerns, 00:02:39.480 --> 00:02:45.740 align:middle line:84% so that you can construct some proposal that's good for them 00:02:45.740 --> 00:02:47.250 align:middle line:90% and great for you. 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:51.260 align:middle line:84% And if you can't listen and present yourself 00:02:51.260 --> 00:02:55.790 align:middle line:84% in an empathetic way, you're not likely to find out from them 00:02:55.790 --> 00:02:58.450 align:middle line:84% what's really on their mind and what 00:02:58.450 --> 00:03:01.160 align:middle line:84% their most important concerns are. 00:03:01.160 --> 00:03:04.990 align:middle line:84% So there's a constant need to adjust, 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:08.380 align:middle line:84% in the context of the kinds of hypotheticals we've been talking 00:03:08.380 --> 00:03:14.470 align:middle line:84% about, how much empathy you're exhibiting, how much empathy 00:03:14.470 --> 00:03:16.070 align:middle line:90% you're trying to gin up. 00:03:16.070 --> 00:03:17.750 align:middle line:84% I'm not talking about play acting. 00:03:17.750 --> 00:03:21.610 align:middle line:84% I'm talking about serious effort to empathize 00:03:21.610 --> 00:03:23.030 align:middle line:90% with the concerns of the other. 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:24.800 align:middle line:84% They'll know if it's not serious, 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:26.680 align:middle line:84% and if it's not serious, it won't have 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.430 align:middle line:90% the effect you need it to have. 00:03:28.430 --> 00:03:33.190 align:middle line:84% So how can you gin up empathy for someone 00:03:33.190 --> 00:03:34.870 align:middle line:84% that you disagree with, you don't 00:03:34.870 --> 00:03:39.680 align:middle line:84% like, who you think is evil, who stands for bad things. 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:44.260 align:middle line:84% But I'm saying you have got to find out 00:03:44.260 --> 00:03:46.270 align:middle line:84% what's important to them, and you've 00:03:46.270 --> 00:03:49.450 align:middle line:84% got to get them to trust you enough to tell you 00:03:49.450 --> 00:03:56.490 align:middle line:84% what's important to them so that you can construct proposals 00:03:56.490 --> 00:04:00.790 align:middle line:84% for the other, which could be a group and not just a person, 00:04:00.790 --> 00:04:04.810 align:middle line:84% and be assertive about that at the same time, 00:04:04.810 --> 00:04:08.400 align:middle line:84% in the same setting, in the same interactions in which you have 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.120 align:middle line:90% also been empathetic. 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:15.630 align:middle line:84% There's a tension between them, but both need to be present. 00:04:15.630 --> 00:04:20.190 align:middle line:84% There's a really important distinction between facilitation 00:04:20.190 --> 00:04:21.550 align:middle line:90% and mediation. 00:04:21.550 --> 00:04:24.550 align:middle line:84% I did not call this mediating leadership. 00:04:24.550 --> 00:04:27.910 align:middle line:84% I call this facilitating leadership. 00:04:27.910 --> 00:04:31.950 align:middle line:84% That's because facilitation means something different 00:04:31.950 --> 00:04:34.060 align:middle line:90% from mediation. 00:04:34.060 --> 00:04:40.500 align:middle line:84% You can't mediate unless you can claim and perform 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:42.400 align:middle line:90% in a neutral way. 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:46.270 align:middle line:84% The definition of mediation is neutral, non-partisan. 00:04:46.270 --> 00:04:50.460 align:middle line:84% Now, no human really is neutral ever. 00:04:50.460 --> 00:04:54.640 align:middle line:84% But in this professional role of mediation, 00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:59.670 align:middle line:84% you have to be accepted as non-partisan by the parties. 00:04:59.670 --> 00:05:01.670 align:middle line:84% So the measure of your neutrality 00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:05.480 align:middle line:84% is their perception of you and their willingness 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.640 align:middle line:84% to accept the fact you are not there 00:05:07.640 --> 00:05:12.450 align:middle line:84% to advance one side or the other side, or your own interests. 00:05:12.450 --> 00:05:15.780 align:middle line:84% Because if someone thinks I've done something that's partisan, 00:05:15.780 --> 00:05:17.100 align:middle line:90% they will tell me to leave. 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:20.250 align:middle line:84% So neutrality goes with mediation. 00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:24.510 align:middle line:84% Facilitation is a skill more than it is a role. 00:05:24.510 --> 00:05:26.880 align:middle line:90% You have your own interests. 00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:31.140 align:middle line:84% You haven't promised neutrality to the group, 00:05:31.140 --> 00:05:34.130 align:middle line:84% but you've promised or you're offering 00:05:34.130 --> 00:05:40.370 align:middle line:84% to facilitate a collective effort to deal with whatever 00:05:40.370 --> 00:05:43.130 align:middle line:90% the conflict or the problem is. 00:05:43.130 --> 00:05:49.500 align:middle line:84% Sometimes a spoiler will show themselves and they'll say, 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:53.070 align:middle line:84% I don't care what this process is going to do. 00:05:53.070 --> 00:05:56.790 align:middle line:84% I can't accept anything less than x. 00:05:56.790 --> 00:06:01.530 align:middle line:84% And you're trying to have the parties be creative and generate 00:06:01.530 --> 00:06:04.510 align:middle line:84% new options that will meet everybody's interests, 00:06:04.510 --> 00:06:07.170 align:middle line:84% and this person's proposal clearly 00:06:07.170 --> 00:06:12.220 align:middle line:84% will make it impossible if they won't move off that position. 00:06:12.220 --> 00:06:14.200 align:middle line:84% We're not going to be part of any agreement, 00:06:14.200 --> 00:06:16.060 align:middle line:90% and there's nothing you can say. 00:06:16.060 --> 00:06:18.660 align:middle line:84% There's no song you can sing that's going 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:22.530 align:middle line:84% to get me to agree to something where we don't 00:06:22.530 --> 00:06:24.580 align:middle line:90% get this, or at least this. 00:06:24.580 --> 00:06:30.570 align:middle line:84% And there's a really very specific maneuver at that moment 00:06:30.570 --> 00:06:33.880 align:middle line:84% that facilitators and mediators use. 00:06:33.880 --> 00:06:38.020 align:middle line:84% And I can only tell you, from my own experience, 00:06:38.020 --> 00:06:43.810 align:middle line:84% it stops the flow of the spoiler's bad vibrations. 00:06:43.810 --> 00:06:47.520 align:middle line:84% So when someone says, if I don't get at least this, we're out. 00:06:47.520 --> 00:06:50.950 align:middle line:84% And the facilitator says, well, before anybody responds, 00:06:50.950 --> 00:06:53.220 align:middle line:84% you wouldn't want any more than that? 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:55.340 align:middle line:84% If I can get the rest of this group 00:06:55.340 --> 00:06:57.950 align:middle line:84% to do better than that for you, you 00:06:57.950 --> 00:06:59.880 align:middle line:84% wouldn't want to be part of that conversation? 00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:04.280 align:middle line:84% You would be amazed at the way the facial expressions of people 00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:08.480 align:middle line:84% who've built up for a week, they're coming to this meeting 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.120 align:middle line:84% and they were going to unload, and they 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:15.360 align:middle line:84% know everybody's going to be angry at them or hate them, 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.550 align:middle line:84% but they've worked themselves up, and we have to have this. 00:07:19.550 --> 00:07:22.460 align:middle line:84% Because the moment they say, well, no, I 00:07:22.460 --> 00:07:24.810 align:middle line:84% wouldn't be averse to more, you say, OK, good. 00:07:24.810 --> 00:07:26.820 align:middle line:84% So you need to join the conversation. 00:07:26.820 --> 00:07:29.070 align:middle line:84% You need to listen to other people's interests. 00:07:29.070 --> 00:07:32.790 align:middle line:84% We need to see how much more value we can create. 00:07:32.790 --> 00:07:35.940 align:middle line:84% And then you can make a case for what you need 00:07:35.940 --> 00:07:38.400 align:middle line:84% and let's see if we can't reframe. 00:07:38.400 --> 00:07:42.930 align:middle line:84% All of it is around moving them off that position. 00:07:42.930 --> 00:07:45.780 align:middle line:84% And I'm not suggesting compromise. 00:07:45.780 --> 00:07:48.060 align:middle line:84% So they got to take a minute to process it. 00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:50.860 align:middle line:84% And then they'll say something like, usually, 00:07:50.860 --> 00:07:53.380 align:middle line:84% can you guarantee that they'll get me something better 00:07:53.380 --> 00:07:54.410 align:middle line:90% than that? 00:07:54.410 --> 00:07:56.510 align:middle line:90% I said, we can try. 00:07:56.510 --> 00:08:00.350 align:middle line:84% I can't guarantee anybody will get anything right now, 00:08:00.350 --> 00:08:02.750 align:middle line:84% but there's a really good chance, 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:05.920 align:middle line:84% if everybody is negotiating to try 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:11.120 align:middle line:84% to meet their own interests and others, that we can do that. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.240 align:middle line:84% And they get up and leave because they 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:14.660 align:middle line:90% don't know what else to do. 00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:18.520 align:middle line:84% They can't admit that it might be in their interest 00:08:18.520 --> 00:08:21.580 align:middle line:84% to stay because they've told their people they were going 00:08:21.580 --> 00:08:24.430 align:middle line:84% to come tonight and blast this thing 00:08:24.430 --> 00:08:29.210 align:middle line:84% and make their position clear, and too bad for everybody else. 00:08:29.210 --> 00:08:31.900 align:middle line:84% And I don't know what they're going to say to their people 00:08:31.900 --> 00:08:32.870 align:middle line:90% when they go back. 00:08:32.870 --> 00:08:34.700 align:middle line:84% They'll have some rationalization. 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:40.960 align:middle line:84% But they were so put off by the facilitation response 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:45.310 align:middle line:90% that they just walked away. 00:08:45.310 --> 00:08:48.370 align:middle line:84% It's not clear they would never come back. 00:08:48.370 --> 00:08:52.570 align:middle line:84% If this process is going to go on a while, as a facilitator, 00:08:52.570 --> 00:08:55.440 align:middle line:84% I would certainly call them after the meeting 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:59.340 align:middle line:84% and say, anything that you can say about whether you 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:01.090 align:middle line:90% might rejoin the group? 00:09:01.090 --> 00:09:05.700 align:middle line:84% You're cordially invited to come back to the next meeting. 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:08.590 align:middle line:84% No discussion of what happened necessary. 00:09:08.590 --> 00:09:12.910 align:middle line:84% They sometimes will leave, and in some instances, 00:09:12.910 --> 00:09:15.330 align:middle line:84% it's possible to bring them back if you 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:19.990 align:middle line:84% can make it not an embarrassing or humiliating process. 00:09:19.990 --> 00:09:21.700 align:middle line:90% That's the facilitator's job. 00:09:21.700 --> 00:09:25.570 align:middle line:84% You're right to be concerned that there might be spoilers. 00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:30.180 align:middle line:84% You're right to be concerned that you're not 00:09:30.180 --> 00:09:33.165 align:middle line:84% interested in helping to find some lowest common denominator 00:09:33.165 --> 00:09:37.440 align:middle line:84% or compromise that starts with the spoiler dictating 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:40.750 align:middle line:84% the outer limits of what can be produced. 00:09:40.750 --> 00:09:43.270 align:middle line:84% You don't want to be part of that, and I wouldn't either. 00:09:43.270 --> 00:09:44.560 align:middle line:90% I don't blame you. 00:09:44.560 --> 00:09:47.060 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:09:47.060 --> 00:09:52.060 align:middle line:90% 00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:56.560 align:middle line:84% A number of people said, maybe someday I 00:09:56.560 --> 00:09:59.470 align:middle line:84% might want to be in a facilitative leadership 00:09:59.470 --> 00:10:03.640 align:middle line:84% position, but I don't feel like I 00:10:03.640 --> 00:10:10.060 align:middle line:84% have the level of self-control or self-confidence 00:10:10.060 --> 00:10:13.420 align:middle line:90% to take that role right now. 00:10:13.420 --> 00:10:15.530 align:middle line:84% Maybe there's more things I can learn. 00:10:15.530 --> 00:10:18.170 align:middle line:84% Maybe there's more things I can observe, 00:10:18.170 --> 00:10:22.370 align:middle line:84% but I don't see myself now being able to do that. 00:10:22.370 --> 00:10:24.580 align:middle line:84% My response is, well, that's great 00:10:24.580 --> 00:10:27.830 align:middle line:84% that you have that perspective on yourself. 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:32.290 align:middle line:84% Doesn't mean you can't add what skills and competencies 00:10:32.290 --> 00:10:33.320 align:middle line:90% need to be added. 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.690 align:middle line:84% It doesn't mean you have to sign off forever 00:10:35.690 --> 00:10:39.740 align:middle line:84% on the prospect of being in a facilitative leadership role. 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:42.550 align:middle line:84% There are times in people's work life 00:10:42.550 --> 00:10:46.140 align:middle line:84% where they're tapped to play a leadership role, 00:10:46.140 --> 00:10:51.810 align:middle line:84% and they may not think they're ready, and they say, no. 00:10:51.810 --> 00:10:54.300 align:middle line:90% I don't see myself doing that. 00:10:54.300 --> 00:10:55.210 align:middle line:90% That's fine. 00:10:55.210 --> 00:10:57.250 align:middle line:84% If that's not you, then that's not you. 00:10:57.250 --> 00:11:00.520 align:middle line:84% I don't see that as a terrible problem. 00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:02.970 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:11:02.970 --> 00:11:08.370 align:middle line:90% 00:11:08.370 --> 00:11:13.380 align:middle line:84% One person described all of the micro skills 00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:20.560 align:middle line:84% that I listed for you last time as values rather than skills, 00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:24.510 align:middle line:84% as if somehow they're about what you believe as opposed 00:11:24.510 --> 00:11:26.170 align:middle line:90% to what you can do. 00:11:26.170 --> 00:11:29.310 align:middle line:90% And these are skills. 00:11:29.310 --> 00:11:31.500 align:middle line:90% They're learned. 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:34.570 align:middle line:84% You're not necessarily born with them, 00:11:34.570 --> 00:11:38.340 align:middle line:84% and they don't come just because you've decided you want them. 00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:42.820 align:middle line:84% You have to work to build these micro skills. 00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:46.590 align:middle line:84% And the micro skills give you a repertoire. 00:11:46.590 --> 00:11:48.710 align:middle line:84% I think it's a mistake to think of them 00:11:48.710 --> 00:11:51.120 align:middle line:90% in the category of values. 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:55.010 align:middle line:84% If you want to use facilitation and consensus building, 00:11:55.010 --> 00:12:00.440 align:middle line:84% that's a set of skills, and you can't just wish it. 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.170 align:middle line:84% You have to learn it, or you have 00:12:03.170 --> 00:12:07.340 align:middle line:84% to work with someone for a while who is already more accomplished 00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:13.010 align:middle line:84% at it and indirectly apprentice so that you can try it out 00:12:13.010 --> 00:12:16.250 align:middle line:84% and then begin to build your self-confidence about being 00:12:16.250 --> 00:12:17.790 align:middle line:90% able to do this. 00:12:17.790 --> 00:12:20.250 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:12:20.250 --> 00:12:28.130 align:middle line:90% 00:12:28.130 --> 00:12:34.970 align:middle line:84% Several people said, while they could see themselves becoming 00:12:34.970 --> 00:12:40.400 align:middle line:84% facilitative leaders, they had no clear idea right now 00:12:40.400 --> 00:12:44.940 align:middle line:84% of how you turn a confrontation into a collaborative problem 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:46.600 align:middle line:90% solving circumstance. 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:49.780 align:middle line:84% They don't see how you could make it happen. 00:12:49.780 --> 00:12:53.580 align:middle line:84% And so they're happy to see themselves 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:55.500 align:middle line:84% as facilitative leaders, but if that 00:12:55.500 --> 00:13:01.680 align:middle line:84% includes transforming a conflict into a collaborative problem 00:13:01.680 --> 00:13:06.655 align:middle line:84% solving situation, they just didn't think that was possible. 00:13:06.655 --> 00:13:09.030 align:middle line:84% What I'm going to say is true regardless of whether we're 00:13:09.030 --> 00:13:11.590 align:middle line:90% in a leadership context or not. 00:13:11.590 --> 00:13:17.190 align:middle line:84% I want to take you to the kind of moment that 00:13:17.190 --> 00:13:22.380 align:middle line:84% happens when everybody shows up with their own ideas about what 00:13:22.380 --> 00:13:26.880 align:middle line:84% the right design to solve a problem would be, 00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:29.670 align:middle line:84% and you decide, well, let's use the next half 00:13:29.670 --> 00:13:31.390 align:middle line:90% hour to brainstorm. 00:13:31.390 --> 00:13:34.030 align:middle line:84% Everybody still came with their own idea. 00:13:34.030 --> 00:13:37.980 align:middle line:84% Somebody says, let's just take the next half hour 00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:40.650 align:middle line:90% and engage in brainstorming. 00:13:40.650 --> 00:13:45.330 align:middle line:84% Now, anybody who's done that knows it's 00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:49.200 align:middle line:84% just a couple of preconditions for effective brainstorming. 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.680 align:middle line:84% Everybody has to agree that everything that's said 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:55.090 align:middle line:90% is an idea, is a suggestion. 00:13:55.090 --> 00:13:57.840 align:middle line:84% For this half hour, we're going to brainstorm. 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.040 align:middle line:84% In my practice as mediator, my way 00:14:02.040 --> 00:14:08.370 align:middle line:84% of embodying the need to move that confrontation into problem 00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:13.590 align:middle line:84% solving is often, if I'm sitting across from someone, I stand up 00:14:13.590 --> 00:14:17.620 align:middle line:84% and I take my chair and I put it next to them, say, 00:14:17.620 --> 00:14:20.040 align:middle line:84% let's see how many things we can think 00:14:20.040 --> 00:14:25.875 align:middle line:84% of that we agree on that would be a good idea in handling this. 00:14:25.875 --> 00:14:30.700 align:middle line:84% I'm on your side is what I'm showing and saying. 00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:33.480 align:middle line:84% I'm trying to convert the confrontation 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.800 align:middle line:90% into a collaborative moment. 00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:39.960 align:middle line:84% The idea of talking about how you're going to talk 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.330 align:middle line:84% is crucial to transforming a conflict 00:14:43.330 --> 00:14:45.110 align:middle line:90% into a collaborative moment. 00:14:45.110 --> 00:14:49.780 align:middle line:84% I have to build a different context right in front of us 00:14:49.780 --> 00:14:51.350 align:middle line:90% while we're sitting there. 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:53.500 align:middle line:90% How can we work together? 00:14:53.500 --> 00:14:56.420 align:middle line:84% I know everybody's got their own ideas here, 00:14:56.420 --> 00:14:57.740 align:middle line:90% and we'll hear about those. 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:02.140 align:middle line:84% But before we do that, let's just see what we agree on 00:15:02.140 --> 00:15:05.570 align:middle line:84% are good ideas relative to solving this problem. 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:06.980 align:middle line:90% Let's brainstorm. 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:09.430 align:middle line:84% To brainstorm effectively, we need 00:15:09.430 --> 00:15:13.070 align:middle line:84% to hold off on negative or evaluative comments. 00:15:13.070 --> 00:15:16.190 align:middle line:84% We need to just put as many things up there as we can. 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:18.890 align:middle line:84% There's a time limit for how long we're going to do it. 00:15:18.890 --> 00:15:21.790 align:middle line:84% Nobody's committed to anything just because they 00:15:21.790 --> 00:15:23.360 align:middle line:90% contributed an idea. 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:27.910 align:middle line:84% So don't worry that you're somehow implicitly committing 00:15:27.910 --> 00:15:30.800 align:middle line:84% to something that you'll want to move away from. 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:34.540 align:middle line:84% That's about transforming a built-in conflict 00:15:34.540 --> 00:15:37.780 align:middle line:84% to a collaborative problem solving circumstance. 00:15:37.780 --> 00:15:40.360 align:middle line:84% Doesn't guarantee agreement, but the comments 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.510 align:middle line:84% I was seeing from people is, I just 00:15:42.510 --> 00:15:47.160 align:middle line:84% don't see how I can be in the middle of a conflict 00:15:47.160 --> 00:15:49.720 align:middle line:90% and be a useful facilitator. 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.390 align:middle line:84% You've got to discuss the desire to do that. 00:15:52.390 --> 00:15:54.400 align:middle line:84% You've got to set some ground rules. 00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:57.660 align:middle line:84% Some people may stay quiet the whole brainstorming session 00:15:57.660 --> 00:15:59.680 align:middle line:84% because they can't adjust to that. 00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:01.240 align:middle line:90% They're not flexible enough. 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:05.880 align:middle line:84% You can facilitate the transformation of a conflict 00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:09.550 align:middle line:84% situation to a joint problem solving situation 00:16:09.550 --> 00:16:13.440 align:middle line:84% by naming it as the thing you think the group should 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.610 align:middle line:90% try for a short time. 00:16:15.610 --> 00:16:20.580 align:middle line:84% That's one way of thinking about the transformation 00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:22.950 align:middle line:90% from a conflict situation. 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:29.110 align:middle line:84% Another is to break up a fairly large group into smaller groups. 00:16:29.110 --> 00:16:33.960 align:middle line:84% We work in four groups of three and come up with a criteria 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.440 align:middle line:84% for choosing a good design to solve this problem. 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:38.260 align:middle line:90% 10 minutes. 00:16:38.260 --> 00:16:39.310 align:middle line:90% Time's up. 00:16:39.310 --> 00:16:40.388 align:middle line:90% What did you guys? 00:16:40.388 --> 00:16:40.930 align:middle line:90% What did you? 00:16:40.930 --> 00:16:41.590 align:middle line:90% What did you? 00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:42.140 align:middle line:90% What did you? 00:16:42.140 --> 00:16:46.300 align:middle line:84% It's easier to just have to work with three people than 11 00:16:46.300 --> 00:16:51.790 align:middle line:84% others, so we use that as a way of buffering 00:16:51.790 --> 00:16:56.480 align:middle line:84% the pressures of the conflict to try to move to transformation. 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.560 align:middle line:84% You're thinking of a move and you're doing it, 00:17:00.560 --> 00:17:04.240 align:middle line:84% and you're not worrying about whether people 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.388 align:middle line:84% are going to disagree with what you're proposing, 00:17:07.388 --> 00:17:09.430 align:middle line:84% and you're not worrying about whether they're not 00:17:09.430 --> 00:17:10.520 align:middle line:90% going to like you. 00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:16.540 align:middle line:84% You're just ready to try some things that 00:17:16.540 --> 00:17:19.420 align:middle line:90% will transform the context. 00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:24.130 align:middle line:84% If you don't know how you could right now be 00:17:24.130 --> 00:17:28.150 align:middle line:84% a facilitative leader, because you don't know that you could 00:17:28.150 --> 00:17:30.700 align:middle line:84% be comfortable enough in a conflict 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:35.660 align:middle line:84% to help the group transform it, you can learn how to do that. 00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:40.140 align:middle line:84% But you need some ideas to begin to work with. 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:45.430 align:middle line:84% Last point that came from two people separately. 00:17:45.430 --> 00:17:50.590 align:middle line:84% I think this whole facilitation thing makes me look soft. 00:17:50.590 --> 00:17:54.540 align:middle line:84% I see myself as a principled person 00:17:54.540 --> 00:17:58.890 align:middle line:84% who doesn't get pushed around relative to what I believe 00:17:58.890 --> 00:17:59.950 align:middle line:90% is right. 00:17:59.950 --> 00:18:01.750 align:middle line:90% I believe what I believe. 00:18:01.750 --> 00:18:04.360 align:middle line:84% I represent the people I work with. 00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:06.600 align:middle line:84% All I can suggest to you is there 00:18:06.600 --> 00:18:09.900 align:middle line:84% are other ways of accomplishing the goal of getting people 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:14.940 align:middle line:84% to support what you believe, but at their own volition, 00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.150 align:middle line:84% not because you tell them they have to. 00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:22.290 align:middle line:84% And I would argue effective is in the middle 00:18:22.290 --> 00:18:24.570 align:middle line:90% between soft and hard. 00:18:24.570 --> 00:18:29.020 align:middle line:84% Effective is, none of that matters. 00:18:29.020 --> 00:18:33.630 align:middle line:84% I only care if you perceive me effective in my role as helping 00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:37.340 align:middle line:84% to get a good outcome for the group in which everyone's 00:18:37.340 --> 00:18:38.700 align:middle line:90% interests are met. 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:41.990 align:middle line:84% When someone says, I don't see being in this kind of leadership 00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:46.520 align:middle line:84% role, I guess they see themselves more as some 00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:49.820 align:middle line:84% of our new national leaders, where 00:18:49.820 --> 00:18:52.740 align:middle line:84% they assume they will tell everybody what to do, 00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:56.900 align:middle line:84% and everyone should listen because they are the leader. 00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:59.870 align:middle line:84% That's not the model I'm talking about. 00:18:59.870 --> 00:19:03.180 align:middle line:84% I don't think the people in that role are going to get very far, 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:05.750 align:middle line:84% but we'll see in the United States 00:19:05.750 --> 00:19:09.320 align:middle line:84% over the next couple of years whether that approach gets 00:19:09.320 --> 00:19:10.860 align:middle line:90% anyone where they want to go. 00:19:10.860 --> 00:19:12.920 align:middle line:84% Someone said, it seems like there's 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.900 align:middle line:84% lots of pre-work needed to be a facilitative leader 00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:21.240 align:middle line:84% before the gathering of all the parties. 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:22.980 align:middle line:84% And the answer to that is absolutely yes. 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:24.920 align:middle line:84% And that's why you work as a team, 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:27.600 align:middle line:84% and that's why you have other people. 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:30.060 align:middle line:84% It's not just what you do at the table. 00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:32.880 align:middle line:84% It's what you do to create the table. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.400 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.650 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I think one of the challenges 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:41.880 align:middle line:84% that I can see myself facing as a facilitative leader is 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.250 align:middle line:84% ensuring that all voices in the room 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:49.780 align:middle line:84% are heard equally, while not making it a contrived process. 00:19:49.780 --> 00:19:51.480 align:middle line:84% I still want to maintain this, like, 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:53.040 align:middle line:84% spirit of collaboration and people 00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:55.420 align:middle line:84% just like openly exchanging ideas. 00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:58.020 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: So do you have some preliminary ideas 00:19:58.020 --> 00:20:02.340 align:middle line:84% of how to try that that's not the clunky way? 00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:04.530 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Proposing different questions, maybe. 00:20:04.530 --> 00:20:06.840 align:middle line:84% Other questions that might involve folks who 00:20:06.840 --> 00:20:09.640 align:middle line:90% haven't been speaking as much. 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:10.750 align:middle line:90% But yeah, I don't know. 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:12.970 align:middle line:90% Open to any other ideas too. 00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:14.820 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: So we're in this context 00:20:14.820 --> 00:20:17.050 align:middle line:84% and there's several people speaking a lot, 00:20:17.050 --> 00:20:19.720 align:middle line:84% and there's several people hardly speaking. 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.390 align:middle line:84% And I feel it's my job for everyone to be heard. 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:24.330 align:middle line:90% I'm just repeating your premise. 00:20:24.330 --> 00:20:26.950 align:middle line:84% And I say, wait a minute, wait a minute. 00:20:26.950 --> 00:20:29.730 align:middle line:84% We've only heard from a few people. 00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:32.970 align:middle line:84% Really, let's let people who haven't spoken yet 00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:34.440 align:middle line:90% have the floor. 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.990 align:middle line:84% So I have now empowered those folks, 00:20:36.990 --> 00:20:39.350 align:middle line:84% and I am going to stop anyone who has spoken 00:20:39.350 --> 00:20:41.190 align:middle line:90% before from talking, literally. 00:20:41.190 --> 00:20:43.560 align:middle line:84% That's what my facilitative job is. 00:20:43.560 --> 00:20:48.950 align:middle line:84% And sometimes that will make it more comfortable for someone 00:20:48.950 --> 00:20:52.490 align:middle line:84% who's been quiet because they don't feel comfortable 00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:55.290 align:middle line:90% jumping in when they want to. 00:20:55.290 --> 00:20:56.900 align:middle line:90% That's one idea. 00:20:56.900 --> 00:21:00.750 align:middle line:84% Another idea is to say, everyone be quiet for a few minutes. 00:21:00.750 --> 00:21:03.140 align:middle line:84% Everybody write down two or three answers to the question 00:21:03.140 --> 00:21:04.620 align:middle line:90% that we've been talking about. 00:21:04.620 --> 00:21:05.130 align:middle line:90% Short. 00:21:05.130 --> 00:21:06.180 align:middle line:90% Just short things. 00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:08.460 align:middle line:84% I put a lot of people in that situation. 00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:10.170 align:middle line:84% I haven't singled one person out. 00:21:10.170 --> 00:21:13.560 align:middle line:84% If I'm not singling someone out who's been quiet, 00:21:13.560 --> 00:21:16.080 align:middle line:84% there's a better chance of engaging them. 00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:18.320 align:middle line:84% A third thing is to say, we've been talking 00:21:18.320 --> 00:21:20.700 align:middle line:90% about this for 45 minutes. 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:22.980 align:middle line:84% I want to get a sense of where the group stands. 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:24.660 align:middle line:90% Let's just go around. 00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:26.700 align:middle line:90% Everybody, just 30 seconds. 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:28.350 align:middle line:90% Where do you stand on this? 00:21:28.350 --> 00:21:32.210 align:middle line:84% So I am doing things to encourage 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:33.620 align:middle line:90% the ones who haven't spoken. 00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:37.300 align:middle line:84% I can't make them speak and I do not want to call them, 00:21:37.300 --> 00:21:38.810 align:middle line:84% say, you haven't said anything yet. 00:21:38.810 --> 00:21:39.710 align:middle line:90% Say something. 00:21:39.710 --> 00:21:42.400 align:middle line:84% There are a whole series of ways you 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:46.627 align:middle line:84% can try to do that that I think are better than either saying, 00:21:46.627 --> 00:21:47.960 align:middle line:90% well, they didn't want to speak. 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:48.950 align:middle line:90% They didn't have to speak. 00:21:48.950 --> 00:21:51.492 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I would say that for me the biggest challenge would 00:21:51.492 --> 00:21:54.465 align:middle line:84% be patience and the management of time. 00:21:54.465 --> 00:21:55.840 align:middle line:84% I think that sometimes these kind 00:21:55.840 --> 00:21:58.640 align:middle line:84% of discussions, when they don't have an end time, 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.960 align:middle line:84% it's really difficult to get people 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:04.820 align:middle line:84% to agree because the discussion can keep going. 00:22:04.820 --> 00:22:08.720 align:middle line:84% That's something that I would struggle with how to manage. 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.570 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: I think you're right to worry about it. 00:22:11.570 --> 00:22:13.840 align:middle line:84% I think every facilitator has to worry 00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:17.750 align:middle line:84% about managing time, their time and the group's time. 00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:21.230 align:middle line:84% If I'm entering into that kind of situation, 00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:25.490 align:middle line:84% I need another person in the group to be time keeper. 00:22:25.490 --> 00:22:28.460 align:middle line:84% We could also have a ground rule. 00:22:28.460 --> 00:22:31.590 align:middle line:84% We could say, look, we give everybody 00:22:31.590 --> 00:22:35.280 align:middle line:84% three minutes for a first statement on anything 00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:39.040 align:middle line:84% where you're recognized from the queue to speak next. 00:22:39.040 --> 00:22:42.390 align:middle line:84% I can use that as a device for dealing 00:22:42.390 --> 00:22:46.840 align:middle line:84% with one time problem, which is people who talk too long. 00:22:46.840 --> 00:22:49.540 align:middle line:84% I would not start a meeting without an agenda, 00:22:49.540 --> 00:22:51.100 align:middle line:90% which I sent out ahead. 00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:54.040 align:middle line:84% If you have an agenda for any kind of a group, 00:22:54.040 --> 00:22:57.210 align:middle line:84% you should have time next to each item, including 00:22:57.210 --> 00:22:58.810 align:middle line:90% what is the ending time. 00:22:58.810 --> 00:23:02.370 align:middle line:84% But this is about using agendas, and that's 00:23:02.370 --> 00:23:04.840 align:middle line:90% the leader's responsibility. 00:23:04.840 --> 00:23:07.900 align:middle line:84% Tools for time management for the group, 00:23:07.900 --> 00:23:10.750 align:middle line:90% not just for yourself. 00:23:10.750 --> 00:23:13.530 align:middle line:84% You're not making evaluations about what 00:23:13.530 --> 00:23:16.030 align:middle line:84% were the good suggestions and the bad suggestions, 00:23:16.030 --> 00:23:19.260 align:middle line:84% and you're not editorializing and leaving something out 00:23:19.260 --> 00:23:21.130 align:middle line:90% because you don't agree with it. 00:23:21.130 --> 00:23:26.790 align:middle line:84% Those are some simple, often used tools by facilitators 00:23:26.790 --> 00:23:29.080 align:middle line:84% to deal with the time management problem. 00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:30.970 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Main challenge for me personally 00:23:30.970 --> 00:23:35.840 align:middle line:84% is how to deal with people that want to spoil the process. 00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:40.180 align:middle line:84% It takes sometimes a lot of emotional resilience 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:44.080 align:middle line:84% to keep myself in a state of mind that 00:23:44.080 --> 00:23:46.490 align:middle line:90% could facilitate the processes. 00:23:46.490 --> 00:23:49.300 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: I think it's a challenge for anyone when 00:23:49.300 --> 00:23:53.080 align:middle line:84% we are in a process that goes on for a long time, which 00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:58.460 align:middle line:84% is why most professional facilitators work in pairs. 00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:03.410 align:middle line:84% It has to be someone that you trust to be your alter ego. 00:24:03.410 --> 00:24:05.740 align:middle line:84% I'm talking about someone who can do everything 00:24:05.740 --> 00:24:07.640 align:middle line:84% you can do as well as you can do it, 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:12.070 align:middle line:84% but you're switching roles in order to let one person rest 00:24:12.070 --> 00:24:13.250 align:middle line:90% and recharge. 00:24:13.250 --> 00:24:15.490 align:middle line:84% And if people are going to be spoilers, 00:24:15.490 --> 00:24:20.840 align:middle line:84% and they're very good at it, I don't have a magic solution. 00:24:20.840 --> 00:24:23.890 align:middle line:84% If I put people on the record of having 00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:27.890 align:middle line:84% to give the reasons for why they're doing something, 00:24:27.890 --> 00:24:29.620 align:middle line:90% they have to either lie. 00:24:29.620 --> 00:24:32.760 align:middle line:84% But many people won't take their spoiler's role 00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:34.980 align:middle line:84% to the point of lying because they 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:36.660 align:middle line:84% know it will ruin their reputation 00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:38.560 align:middle line:90% in that context for the future. 00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:41.020 align:middle line:84% Nobody forgets that that person lied, 00:24:41.020 --> 00:24:45.060 align:middle line:84% and suddenly, the spoiler strategy falls away 00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:48.222 align:middle line:84% and they become part of the negotiation group. 00:24:48.222 --> 00:24:49.930 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: A question that I have is like, 00:24:49.930 --> 00:24:52.960 align:middle line:84% not in the moment of being a facilitator, 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.580 align:middle line:84% but communicating that out once the decision has been reached, 00:24:57.580 --> 00:25:02.560 align:middle line:84% maintaining the vigor of that decision and seeing it through. 00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:06.190 align:middle line:84% How do you maintain trust in the process, 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:08.770 align:middle line:84% knowing that, ultimately, you don't have the final say? 00:25:08.770 --> 00:25:11.640 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: You want to be in charge of a written 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:16.690 align:middle line:84% summary of whatever the key outcome findings agreement is, 00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:19.230 align:middle line:84% and you want to draft it, and you want everybody 00:25:19.230 --> 00:25:21.970 align:middle line:84% in the group to have a chance to comment on it. 00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:24.060 align:middle line:84% And if there are disagreements, you 00:25:24.060 --> 00:25:27.400 align:middle line:84% may need to reconvene the parties. 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:31.500 align:middle line:84% You can put your name as the point of contact, 00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:35.160 align:middle line:84% not the author, as the point of contact at the bottom. 00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:38.930 align:middle line:84% And you want to give that to the mayor. 00:25:38.930 --> 00:25:43.790 align:middle line:84% And you want to say, anything not clear in this written 00:25:43.790 --> 00:25:44.820 align:middle line:90% statement? 00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:47.810 align:middle line:90% This is the group's statement. 00:25:47.810 --> 00:25:51.540 align:middle line:84% And then the mayor is going to go say whatever the mayor wants. 00:25:51.540 --> 00:25:57.320 align:middle line:84% But the existence of a statement that the whole group had 00:25:57.320 --> 00:26:01.460 align:middle line:84% a hand in saying OK to is the best way 00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:04.220 align:middle line:84% of ensuring that what came out of the group 00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:06.680 align:middle line:84% doesn't go through the political meat grinder 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:09.810 align:middle line:90% and come out in unrelated ways. 00:26:09.810 --> 00:26:12.260 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: The problem is that when some of the parties 00:26:12.260 --> 00:26:17.870 align:middle line:84% become very rigid and will not move from their stance, what can 00:26:17.870 --> 00:26:20.640 align:middle line:90% I do as a facilitative leader? 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.580 align:middle line:84% My experiences are all based on my government position. 00:26:25.580 --> 00:26:29.930 align:middle line:84% If I am a facilitative leader, without that authority, 00:26:29.930 --> 00:26:31.280 align:middle line:90% what will be my role? 00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:34.360 align:middle line:84% LARRY SUSSKIND: Some people in some countries 00:26:34.360 --> 00:26:39.130 align:middle line:84% would not be able to accept this informal leadership 00:26:39.130 --> 00:26:42.950 align:middle line:84% role while they still held their government appointment. 00:26:42.950 --> 00:26:44.690 align:middle line:90% Not true in the United States. 00:26:44.690 --> 00:26:49.250 align:middle line:84% Not true in some countries, but is true in some countries. 00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:53.720 align:middle line:84% But if that's not the problem, if you can do both, 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:57.830 align:middle line:84% you have to be really clear with the participants. 00:26:57.830 --> 00:27:03.680 align:middle line:84% I have this responsibility and this obligation in the world. 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.460 align:middle line:84% If there's a point of conflict, I would have to opt out. 00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:12.800 align:middle line:84% And you have to tell that in one way to the agency you work for, 00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:16.030 align:middle line:84% and you have to say to the people who still want 00:27:16.030 --> 00:27:18.800 align:middle line:84% you to be in this facilitative leadership role, 00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:21.400 align:middle line:84% if there comes a conflict, I will tell all of you that 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:23.320 align:middle line:90% and I will bow out. 00:27:23.320 --> 00:27:28.110 align:middle line:84% Thank you for participating in the four dinner discussions. 00:27:28.110 --> 00:27:31.100 align:middle line:90% We will make this available. 00:27:31.100 --> 00:27:34.910 align:middle line:84% Hopefully it will be sitting on the department's website. 00:27:34.910 --> 00:27:39.110 align:middle line:84% I also hope that it does lead to the creation 00:27:39.110 --> 00:27:42.560 align:middle line:84% of additional courses dealing with leadership 00:27:42.560 --> 00:27:47.430 align:middle line:84% within the public sector that DUSP takes responsibility for. 00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:50.780 align:middle line:84% Maybe you can become a constituency 00:27:50.780 --> 00:27:54.510 align:middle line:84% to ask for something more on that score. 00:27:54.510 --> 00:27:58.220 align:middle line:84% And I'm obviously always available to talk 00:27:58.220 --> 00:28:02.960 align:middle line:84% with anybody who wants to pick up on these issues one on one. 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:03.500 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:04.310 align:middle line:90% Good night. 00:28:04.310 --> 00:28:07.060 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:28:07.060 --> 00:28:25.000 align:middle line:90%