WEBVTT

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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SARAH HANSEN: Today
on Chalk Radio,

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teaching about sustainability
in a sustainable way.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: When
we think about education

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of a different kind, it's
not that what we're doing

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is all wrong and bad, but it's
that we could be doing things

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better, and we could be finding
ways to embrace sustainability

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through a ton of different
avenues in our classrooms.

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SARAH HANSEN: I'm Sarah Hansen.

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For this episode, I sat
down with two educators

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from MIT's Environmental
Solutions Initiative.

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These educators helped
create open resources

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for bringing sustainability
into the classroom.

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SARAH MEYERS: My
name is Sarah Meyers,

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and I'm the education
program manager at ESI.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: My
name is Liz Potter-Nelson,

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and I just finished up as
a postdoctoral associate

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in Environmental and
Sustainability Education

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with ESI.

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SARAH HANSEN: Can
you just tell us

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a little bit about what
the Environmental Solutions

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Initiative is?

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SARAH MEYERS: Absolutely.

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ESI is really MIT's
effort to mobilize

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the knowledge and research and
education across the institute

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so that it doesn't belong
in any one department.

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Many of the problems that
we see in sustainability

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are interdisciplinary
problems, and you need people

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from different disciplines
coming together

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to work together
to solve things.

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So ESI is really MIT's effort
to leverage the best of the best

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from across the university.

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SARAH HANSEN: Climate change
and environmental challenges

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are huge problems with
massive implications

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that affect all of
us in different ways.

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While working together
at ESI, Sarah and Liz

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spent a lot of time
thinking about how

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to address the broad
spectrum of issues

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that climate change and
environmental disruption

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pose through the lens
of sustainability.

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So before delving
into the details

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here, let's first get
clear on something.

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What even is sustainability?

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SARAH MEYERS: First
of all, if you

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ask that question to a
hundred different people,

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you'll get 200 different
answers, as far as I can tell.

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So technically,
sustainable development

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is defined in the
Brundtland Report from 1987

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as development that meets
the needs of the present

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without compromising the
ability of future generations

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to meet their own needs.

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That is a very anthropocentric
statement, I think.

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It doesn't include things
like other species or things

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like the environment itself.

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But even if we just start with
that, it is very, very broad.

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It isn't just recycling.

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It is not just turning
off your lights.

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It is not just climate change.

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If you look right now at
the sustainable development

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goals of the UN,
there are 17 of them.

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They include things
like education

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and women's rights and no
poverty and partnership

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between institutions.

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It's very broadly defined.

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You cannot imagine a future
without understanding human

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behavior, without understanding
the impact of what we have

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already done to this planet, the
impact of histories and culture

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to a people.

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You can't just walk
in somewhere and say,

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we're going to
change the planet.

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SARAH HANSEN: Both Sarah
and Liz spent time teaching

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before working at ESI,
Sarah as a high school math

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teacher and Liz as a high
school science teacher.

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They both became interested
in sustainability

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through different lenses, which
really brought home their point

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about sustainability
being fundamentally

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interdisciplinary.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: Building
from Sarah's explanation

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about sustainability,
where we're

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looking at solving
wicked problems that

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are connected
socially, economically,

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environmentally, sustainability
scholars and sustainability

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education is really
looking at how

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to create people who are
sustainability literate.

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There are people who
have the knowledge skills

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and dispositions to
live sustainably.

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SARAH HANSEN: I've been
in education for a while,

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but this term, sustainability
education, was new for me.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON:
What a lot of people

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are arguing in the literature
is that our current education

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systems support
unsustainable behaviors.

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And so really, when we start
to think about education,

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we're thinking of
education that now starts

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to promote sustainability.

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It starts to, as Sarah
mentioned, not only

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look at our current
needs as people,

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but needs of future generations.

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This can happen in a
lot of different ways.

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It could be as an
instructor finding ways

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that you increase
the conversations

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around sustainability
in your classroom.

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So it could be talking
more about carbon capture

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and different
sustainability ideas,

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talking more about the
science of sustainability

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or the social impacts
of making decisions.

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It could also start by looking
at how you are teaching

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and finding ways
that you can embrace

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student-centered active
learning in the way

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that you're teaching.

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A lot of the
literature is starting

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to say that it's not just
talking about sustainability

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that's important and teaching
students about sustainability

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that's important, but
it's how you're actually

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modeling it and teaching
that within the classroom.

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There are ways
that fundamentally,

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when we start to unpack things
within the education system,

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there are parts of it that are
oppressive to certain people.

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There are parts that are-- we
have a colonialized education

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system in its foundation.

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And so if we really start to get
at the root of sustainability,

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it starts to also
call into question

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some of those systemic things
that are preventing people

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from accessing that education
or living their culture

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within our education system.

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So when we think about
education of a different kind,

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it's not that what we're
doing is all wrong and bad,

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but it's that we could
be doing things better,

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and we could be finding ways
to embrace sustainability

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through a ton of different
avenues in our classrooms.

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SARAH HANSEN: To help
teachers bring sustainability

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into their classrooms no
matter what subject they teach

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or what levels, Sarah and Liz
created the Sustainability

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and Climate Change Across
Learning Environments project,

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also called SCALES.

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SARAH MEYERS: The
Sustainability and Climate

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Change Across
Learning Environments

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project, SCALES, is meant to
leverage all of the resources

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from across MIT classes
and provide them

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to teachers wherever they
are, wherever they may be.

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And they can use
them as open source.

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So they can use
them as they like.

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They can adapt them.

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At a deeper level,
where we'd like to see

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this go is that it
actually becomes

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a repository and a
resource for teachers,

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not just for MIT
curriculum, but for any

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of this kind of curriculum that
might be similarly related.

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And so we went back
to the OCW archives

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was the first place we looked
at classes that we knew had

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climate or sustainability
content to say,

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can we make this publicly
available for teachers?

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So this is actual problem sets
and lecture notes and ideas.

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But then to give a
little bit more support,

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like Liz was saying,
well, how do I teach this?

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What does it mean to
teach with sustainability?

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON:
Any classroom teacher

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that you talk to has heard that
they should be using active

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learning or student-centered
learning or using groups

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or participatory learning.

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So it's not necessarily new,
but it's really connecting now

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those fields of education and
best practices in education

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with sustainability
so that hopefully we

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can start to address some
of the larger sustainability

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questions and
problems in the world,

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knowing that climate
change is real.

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And how do we start preparing
students and generations

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to start tackling
those problems?

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SARAH HANSEN:
SCALES incorporates

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six pedagogical practices.

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Each is meant to foster this
multidisciplinary holistic

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approach to
sustainability education.

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There are so many great
ideas for educators

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to consider incorporating
into their teaching.

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Here's a quick breakdown.

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First, there's collaborative
small group learning.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: Students
work together in groups of two

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to roughly six students to
solve a problem together.

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SARAH HANSEN: Then there's
inquiry-based learning.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON:
Students are starting

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to ask questions and work
to answer their questions.

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SARAH HANSEN:
Experiential learning.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: Things
like going on field trips,

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having guest speakers
in, doing internships,

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other types of hands-on
learning experiences.

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SARAH HANSEN: Service learning.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON:
Where you have students

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who are engaging
with their community

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and providing a
service experience

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within that community.

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SARAH HANSEN:
Place-based learning.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON:
Place-based learning often

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has students going
out into the community

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and learning about
their place, learning

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about the geographical
place that they're in,

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their local
community government.

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SARAH HANSEN: And finally,
culturally sustained learning.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: Culturally
sustained learning starts

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to really look at
how students are

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able to embrace their cultures
within the education system.

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It's built off of culturally
responsive and culturally

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relevant learning.

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And so the idea in this is
that teachers are finding ways

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within their curriculum to
let students not only embrace

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their culture but then also
expand on their culture.

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And so culturally sustained
learning has been building.

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There's things like hip hop
pedagogy that fall under it.

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But for me, a lot
of the way that I

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see this presented in the
materials that we've looked at

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is really in teaching
practices and how

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we help students recognize
their own unique cultures

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and help them start to
advocate for themselves

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in their education setting.

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SARAH HANSEN: Along with
these pedagogical practices,

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SCALES also outlines
competency areas that

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define sustainability literacy.

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These are things like systems
thinking, social justice,

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active citizenship,
and futures thinking.

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LIZ POTTER-NELSON: I
love futures thinking

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because it doesn't happen
very often in our classes,

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but it's this idea of, what does
this look like in the future

00:09:45.090 --> 00:09:46.410 align:middle line:90%
for future generations?

00:09:46.410 --> 00:09:49.050 align:middle line:84%
And when I say it doesn't happen
a lot in our classrooms, what

00:09:49.050 --> 00:09:50.850 align:middle line:84%
I really mean is
in Western society,

00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:53.310 align:middle line:84%
it doesn't happen a
lot in our classrooms.

00:09:53.310 --> 00:09:55.980 align:middle line:84%
We don't often think about what
the impacts of what we're doing

00:09:55.980 --> 00:09:59.760 align:middle line:84%
will be for our grandchildren's
generation and their children.

00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:03.180 align:middle line:84%
And so that, I think, is really
an interesting thing to do,

00:10:03.180 --> 00:10:05.970 align:middle line:84%
and there's some really fun
and unique visioning activities

00:10:05.970 --> 00:10:08.190 align:middle line:84%
that you can do,
where you can say,

00:10:08.190 --> 00:10:09.892 align:middle line:84%
let's revision our
downtown, and what

00:10:09.892 --> 00:10:11.100 align:middle line:90%
does that start to look like?

00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:13.080 align:middle line:84%
But it starts to
really help people

00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.860 align:middle line:84%
see how their choices have
impacts in the future.

00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:18.900 align:middle line:84%
SARAH HANSEN: Just
thinking about teachers,

00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:21.810 align:middle line:90%
you've both been teachers.

00:10:21.810 --> 00:10:24.660 align:middle line:84%
It is a ton of work just
to even set up a classroom

00:10:24.660 --> 00:10:28.248 align:middle line:84%
and arrange the desks and
create a grading system

00:10:28.248 --> 00:10:29.790 align:middle line:84%
and communicate with
parents and make

00:10:29.790 --> 00:10:32.160 align:middle line:90%
sure kids have lunch and food.

00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:37.180 align:middle line:84%
And then they're like, I cannot
add one more thing to my to-do

00:10:37.180 --> 00:10:37.680 align:middle line:90%
list.

00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:40.320 align:middle line:90%
What is your response to them?

00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:41.820 align:middle line:84%
LIZ POTTER-NELSON:
So the goal isn't

00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:43.650 align:middle line:84%
to throw out what
you're doing, but it's

00:10:43.650 --> 00:10:45.360 align:middle line:84%
to make small
changes to what you

00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.640 align:middle line:84%
are doing so that that
way, you can start

00:10:47.640 --> 00:10:49.260 align:middle line:90%
to embrace sustainability.

00:10:49.260 --> 00:10:50.940 align:middle line:84%
I used to be a former
chemistry teacher.

00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:52.830 align:middle line:84%
So maybe you have a
problem set, and you have

00:10:52.830 --> 00:10:54.750 align:middle line:90%
some random chemical equation.

00:10:54.750 --> 00:10:57.600 align:middle line:84%
Maybe you put in the chemical
equation for smog for that one

00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:00.480 align:middle line:84%
instead and start to
loop things like that in.

00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:01.980 align:middle line:84%
Then maybe the next
change you make

00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:03.840 align:middle line:84%
the next year is that
instead of just having

00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.480 align:middle line:84%
that chemical equation
for smog in there

00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:08.400 align:middle line:84%
and students are doing
their calculation,

00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:11.460 align:middle line:84%
they get something about
carbon dioxide out of it.

00:11:11.460 --> 00:11:14.645 align:middle line:84%
It's starting to draw these
little changes in connections.

00:11:14.645 --> 00:11:16.020 align:middle line:84%
It's not throwing
everything out.

00:11:16.020 --> 00:11:18.990 align:middle line:84%
It's not intentionally trying
to add one more thing in.

00:11:18.990 --> 00:11:21.780 align:middle line:84%
It's recognizing the good
that you're doing and then

00:11:21.780 --> 00:11:24.870 align:middle line:84%
finding small places
to make it even better.

00:11:24.870 --> 00:11:27.300 align:middle line:84%
SARAH MEYERS: Teachers
are lifelong learners.

00:11:27.300 --> 00:11:28.440 align:middle line:90%
They really are.

00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.930 align:middle line:84%
It's not like you
learn to teach,

00:11:30.930 --> 00:11:33.840 align:middle line:84%
and then you're like, all right,
I'll do this for 40 years.

00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.590 align:middle line:84%
Teachers continuously go back
for professional development

00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:42.630 align:middle line:84%
to improve their craft
forever, even master teachers.

00:11:42.630 --> 00:11:45.210 align:middle line:90%
This just builds on that.

00:11:45.210 --> 00:11:48.210 align:middle line:84%
We're not saying you can
no longer teach chemistry.

00:11:48.210 --> 00:11:50.160 align:middle line:84%
It's that we know
that students are

00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:53.010 align:middle line:84%
going to be more
engaged when they

00:11:53.010 --> 00:11:55.080 align:middle line:90%
see real-world connections.

00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:57.973 align:middle line:84%
So let's figure out a
way to do more of that

00:11:57.973 --> 00:11:58.890 align:middle line:90%
and to do that better.

00:11:58.890 --> 00:12:01.380 align:middle line:84%
So it's not replacing
what you do,

00:12:01.380 --> 00:12:03.180 align:middle line:90%
but it's enhancing what you do.

00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:06.060 align:middle line:84%
And to me, this
makes perfect sense.

00:12:06.060 --> 00:12:08.850 align:middle line:84%
If you're a teacher who's still
teaching the exact same thing

00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:12.150 align:middle line:84%
in the exact same way
10, 15 years later,

00:12:12.150 --> 00:12:13.530 align:middle line:90%
you're probably bored.

00:12:13.530 --> 00:12:16.140 align:middle line:84%
You probably want
something different.

00:12:16.140 --> 00:12:18.660 align:middle line:84%
And it's supposed
to be a way in.

00:12:18.660 --> 00:12:20.780 align:middle line:90%


00:12:20.780 --> 00:12:22.530 align:middle line:84%
SARAH HANSEN: If you're
a regular listener

00:12:22.530 --> 00:12:25.980 align:middle line:84%
to our podcast, you'll know
how much we at OCW love it

00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:28.380 align:middle line:84%
when teachers use our
materials and remix them

00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:30.180 align:middle line:90%
for use in their own classrooms.

00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:32.640 align:middle line:84%
That's one of the
main reasons we exist.

00:12:32.640 --> 00:12:34.890 align:middle line:84%
And when Sarah and
Liz created SCALES,

00:12:34.890 --> 00:12:37.680 align:middle line:84%
we were so excited to
share this with the world.

00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:40.020 align:middle line:84%
Part of what we love about
it is that it's really

00:12:40.020 --> 00:12:44.760 align:middle line:84%
designed to make that process
of remixing as easy as possible.

00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:48.150 align:middle line:84%
They did this specifically
by providing open resources

00:12:48.150 --> 00:12:53.250 align:middle line:84%
from across MIT's curriculum in
adaptable and editable formats.

00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:55.230 align:middle line:84%
So that's going to
make it really easy

00:12:55.230 --> 00:12:57.870 align:middle line:90%
for you to use these materials.

00:12:57.870 --> 00:13:01.110 align:middle line:84%
We'll end the episode today
with some advice for instructors

00:13:01.110 --> 00:13:04.470 align:middle line:84%
who want to incorporate
SCALES or other OCW materials

00:13:04.470 --> 00:13:06.510 align:middle line:90%
into their classrooms.

00:13:06.510 --> 00:13:09.060 align:middle line:84%
LIZ POTTER-NELSON: The biggest
thing is trust yourself

00:13:09.060 --> 00:13:10.050 align:middle line:90%
as an instructor.

00:13:10.050 --> 00:13:12.990 align:middle line:84%
These are some really
awesome materials and tools

00:13:12.990 --> 00:13:14.640 align:middle line:90%
that worked for an instructor.

00:13:14.640 --> 00:13:17.910 align:middle line:84%
But now, it's figuring out
how to make them work for you.

00:13:17.910 --> 00:13:20.640 align:middle line:84%
So it could be something
that you could immediately

00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:22.650 align:middle line:84%
give to your students,
or it might be something

00:13:22.650 --> 00:13:24.990 align:middle line:84%
that you might need to give them
a little bit more background

00:13:24.990 --> 00:13:26.948 align:middle line:84%
information on or something
that you might want

00:13:26.948 --> 00:13:28.470 align:middle line:90%
to take a little bit further.

00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:31.650 align:middle line:84%
Most of the material is geared
at the undergraduate level,

00:13:31.650 --> 00:13:34.400 align:middle line:84%
so it might be something that if
you are working with a freshman

00:13:34.400 --> 00:13:36.150 align:middle line:84%
or sophomore in high
school that you might

00:13:36.150 --> 00:13:38.010 align:middle line:84%
need to provide some
more scaffolding to

00:13:38.010 --> 00:13:41.070 align:middle line:84%
or adjust the assignment
just a little bit.

00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:43.500 align:middle line:84%
The other piece of that
is you, as the instructor,

00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:45.900 align:middle line:84%
know your students
academically and emotionally.

00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:47.678 align:middle line:84%
Some of the topics
can be a little bit

00:13:47.678 --> 00:13:49.470 align:middle line:84%
heavy for some of your
high school students

00:13:49.470 --> 00:13:51.053 align:middle line:84%
or even some of your
college students.

00:13:51.053 --> 00:13:54.180 align:middle line:84%
And so I think even putting
on that lens of talking

00:13:54.180 --> 00:13:58.140 align:middle line:84%
about climate can trigger
strong emotions in everybody.

00:13:58.140 --> 00:14:00.210 align:middle line:84%
And so just making
sure that as you

00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:02.820 align:middle line:84%
work to remix them that you're
also cognizant that you're

00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:05.550 align:middle line:84%
providing those supports
because you, as the instructor,

00:14:05.550 --> 00:14:07.620 align:middle line:84%
have an awesome
wealth of knowledge.

00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:09.360 align:middle line:90%
And you can easily use these.

00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.443 align:middle line:84%
You just need to trust
yourself and go with it.

00:14:12.443 --> 00:14:14.360 align:middle line:84%
SARAH HANSEN: If you're
interested in teaching

00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:16.100 align:middle line:84%
with the SCALES
materials, you'll

00:14:16.100 --> 00:14:19.370 align:middle line:84%
find them on our MIT
OpenCourseWare website.

00:14:19.370 --> 00:14:23.480 align:middle line:84%
You can also go right
to scales.mit.edu.

00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:25.610 align:middle line:84%
You can follow Sarah
Meyers and her work

00:14:25.610 --> 00:14:29.330 align:middle line:84%
at the MIT Environmental
Solutions Initiative website.

00:14:29.330 --> 00:14:31.910 align:middle line:84%
Liz Potter-Nelson is now
an assistant professor

00:14:31.910 --> 00:14:34.400 align:middle line:84%
of physics and science
education at the University

00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:35.750 align:middle line:90%
of Maine at Farmington.

00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:37.460 align:middle line:90%
You can follow her work there.

00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:40.490 align:middle line:84%
I'll share all these links
with you in the show notes.

00:14:40.490 --> 00:14:42.230 align:middle line:90%
Thank you so much for listening.

00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:45.500 align:middle line:84%
Until next time, signing off
from Cambridge, Massachusetts,

00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:50.630 align:middle line:84%
I'm your host, Sarah Hansen,
from MIT OpenCourseWare.

00:14:50.630 --> 00:14:53.990 align:middle line:84%
MIT Chalk Radio's producers
include myself, Brett Paci,

00:14:53.990 --> 00:14:55.400 align:middle line:90%
and Dave Lishansky.

00:14:55.400 --> 00:14:58.820 align:middle line:84%
The show notes for this episode
were written by peter Chipman.

00:14:58.820 --> 00:15:01.430 align:middle line:84%
The SCALES offering
on MIT OpenCourseWare

00:15:01.430 --> 00:15:03.710 align:middle line:90%
was published by Alicia Franke.

00:15:03.710 --> 00:15:06.380 align:middle line:84%
Be sure to give us a follow
on Instagram, Twitter,

00:15:06.380 --> 00:15:09.250 align:middle line:84%
and wherever you
get your podcasts.

00:15:09.250 --> 00:15:13.000 align:middle line:90%