WEBVTT

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[SQUEAKING]

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[RUSTLING]

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[CLICKING]

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PROFESSOR: Next, we have
someone very famous.

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I'm going to talk him up.

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He's my former boss,
Jay Egg, and he's

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going to present on Penn South.

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JAY EGG: Thank you.

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I've got a lapel also.

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Thank you, Nick.

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And as a matter of
fact, Nick will probably

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recognize some of the
beginning of my presentation

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here because he
was involved in one

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of the first presentations we
did on the Penn South Community.

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As a matter of fact, he's
involved in the design and did

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some of this 3D modeling.

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And I've got to drop
back just a little bit.

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Both Cary who was on
remotely, Cary, first of all,

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sits on the IAPMO Uniform
Mechanical Code Technical

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Committee.

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In other words,
we write, approve,

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and submit the final codes.

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And there is a geothermal
code as of 2024.

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And as of 2027, there will be
a thermal energy network code.

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Interestingly enough,
Mark Metzner, C448,

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is basis that we use for design.

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So a lot of that is being
adopted perhaps completely.

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So we have so many
players in here,

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and I can honestly
say everybody in here

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has had a great
deal to do with what

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we're going to talk about now.

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Now, first of all, this is
part of a PON 4614 NYSERDA.

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That's a public
opportunity notice.

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Now, what they do is they put
these things out and they say,

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we've got a problem.

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Can you come up with a solution?

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And if we come up with a
good solution or a problem

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to fit a solution, and this was
for thermal energy networks,

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they award US funding for this.

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So this one started in 2021.

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Actually Penn South
hired Egg Geo before that

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because they wanted to convert
their campus to geothermal.

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And the reason why
is because they

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had-- let me jump back and
make sure I didn't, yeah, it'll

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cover it in a minute.

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They had this 5-megawatt boiler.

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And in addition to that, they
generate their own electricity.

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And so local law 91 told them
if they didn't fix their carbon

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emissions by x year, which
keeps getting extended,

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they would get fined
millions of dollars a year.

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So New York City is
one of those cities

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that you hear about
the carrot, the way

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to get people to do things.

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They've got the stick.

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If you have too many
carbon emissions,

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you will get fined
millions of dollars a year.

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So they hired us.

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They're pretty
affluent community.

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15 22-story buildings covering
five blocks in downtown

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Manhattan, home
to 2,500 families.

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And they have an 1,800-ton
central chiller plant.

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You can see the
cooling tower there,

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and a 5-megawatt central boiler.

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And sorry about
the overlap here.

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That happens sometimes in these.

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So just look through it.

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Local law 38, local law 97, I
won't go into the details of it,

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but they needed to get
compliant on these.

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So they hired us.

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And then Nick, when Nick
was working with us,

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we put in an application
for this pond,

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and we were awarded this pond.

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So we began to study how we
could take this community off

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of these boilers and
stop the emissions.

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There is a New York City tool.

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And I keep hearing
about this with regard

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to boreholes, and Brock,
you probably know this.

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You can go on to a
tool online, and if you

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were to look at the details
on these graphs on the right,

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it shows you how many
boreholes you need to drill,

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what the thermal capacity is
under the footprint of that

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to do a closed loop system.

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So the first thing we
did is studied that,

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and we got the entire
community involved with that.

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But then we really
started looking at this,

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and this was not easy.

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This alone took Nick, our
operations manager Justin,

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myself, my wife used to work
with us as our marketing

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director, and we put
on our combat boots.

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And we went out and we beat on
doors because we wanted to find

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out where to get the energy
to do that 5-megawatt load.

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Well, as it turns out, this
is the US postal Service

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across the street, and
we worked with a couple,

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well, with first we tried to
get with the federal government,

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and then we found out we could
use a local property management

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company.

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But we got the
data on it and they

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have about 8 megawatts
of thermal rejection

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through their cooling towers.

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So we said, aha.

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And they have data
centers and equipment.

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So they may have
it all year round.

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And this particular center
uses this orange building.

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This is the physical
plant, the chiller plant,

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where it provides all the
heating for all these buildings.

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And we said, well, if we could
get this energy over here,

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we could maybe even do the whole
thing without a single borehole.

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And like what Cary said earlier,
that's the whole point of this.

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So we said, yeah, let's
go ahead and look at that.

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And we went forward with that.

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And then we put on
our combat boots.

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And we went out and we talked
to the State University

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of New York.

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We talked to the public
school over here.

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We've even got Penn
Station involved now.

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We're almost all the way to
the Hudson River at this point.

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We may even be able to tap into
that by the time we're done.

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At any rate, we went
to work on this,

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and one of the
things you'll know,

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and this is the biggest
concern we always hear about,

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to go underneath the
streets of New York

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is a freaking nightmare.

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This, when Nick was there,
when we presented to Con Ed

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because Con Ed did a lot
like Eversource did here,

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they were directed by the PSC
to do these thermal energy

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networks.

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Well, you want to take
any kind of a guess

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how much this is going to cost?

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Try almost a quarter
billion dollars.

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So we went to Con
Ed, and they said,

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if you can get it down to
90 million, you can have it.

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We walked because we
weren't going to go cheap

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and we weren't done
with our study.

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We just said, no.

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And Penn South said, we'll
do whatever you want to.

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So we walked and we're finding
ways to reduce that cost now.

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Meanwhile, Con Ed's
doing great work.

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I mean, Greg Koumoullos and
the whole team over there.

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But we wanted to do this.

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And part of what a
NYSERDA study does this.

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This is very important.

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Nothing moves fast
with government.

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You've heard that,
except I've got

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to take it back with Eversource
and heat, it just whoom!

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Before I even knew
what happened,

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it was done over
here in Framingham.

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I can't wait to see that a
week from Saturday after the GR

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conference.

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But for us, we were just like,
no, we want to get through this.

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Plus, Sue Dougherty over at
NYSERDA is our project manager.

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And for every problem,
they ask 100 questions.

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They said, well, how are
you going to deal with that?

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because they don't fund
this so that somebody

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can get something for free.

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Why do you think they fund it?

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So we can clear a path
for others to do it.

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And that's exactly
what we're doing.

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So the amount of paperwork we
do to tread the way for others

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to follow is monstrous.

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Our hats off to our
engineers and so forth.

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So we move forward.

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This is actually from
earlier this month.

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They turned in task 5.

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We had to model it
without the post office,

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because what if the post
office decides to move?

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They're just renting
the building after all.

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And what if we don't
have that 8 megawatts?

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So we really had to look at it.

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It's kind of like the
backup boiler scenario.

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So our guys really
started looking at it

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and they said, OK, here's where
we can put the closed loop,

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but we'd have to do the
advanced boring solution

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like they did in Framingham.

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And so that's expensive.

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But we have other
technologies, and that

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involves aquifer coupled.

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And by the way, this
particular part of Manhattan

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has a very robust
glacial till aquifer.

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So we checked that.

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We got involved with it.

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We looked at what's
called advective flow.

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If you've listened to a lot
of what we're talking about,

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doing these advective
flow studies

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shows how fast when we're
extracting heat or rejecting

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heat, it can be restored.

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Plus we have to show
thermal influence

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to the neighboring properties,
because in New York.

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They want to know what you're
doing to everybody's property.

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So each of these models,
as Nick will tell you,

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or any scientists, can take
8 to 16, even 40 hours.

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But we get through
this and we look

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at the bottom line is we get a
thermal influence over 25 years.

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And I think that's the
way we're going to go.

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We're going to go
with four doublets,

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and we're going to be
able to handle the peak.

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We're still going to need
some boilers and so forth.

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But this is the Penn South
underground utilities.

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This is how it's
going to be piped.

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And this is what it looks like.

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You've heard a lot about,
from Cary about these

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are the singular loops.

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And then there's a
transportation loop.

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As a matter of fact,
right here in Framingham,

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they have those two loops.

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They'll be able to shed or
add load one to another.

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All of these
individual loops here

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will be able to share
energy with one another.

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And this is just a picture of
what we call the transportation

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loop.

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What is it transporting?

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It's transporting energy.

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It's like the grid.

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When you take a big
load, maybe in Texas they

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need extra electricity,
and you can

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get it from maybe Arizona
or something like that.

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In a much smaller way,
that's the way it works.

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And that is my presentation.

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Thank you, everybody.

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[APPLAUSE]

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