WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.960 align:middle line:90% [SQUEAKING] 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:04.410 align:middle line:90% [RUSTLING] 00:00:04.410 --> 00:00:05.880 align:middle line:90% [CLICKING] 00:00:05.880 --> 00:00:11.270 align:middle line:90% 00:00:11.270 --> 00:00:14.120 align:middle line:84% ANDREW: Now we'll hear from Chair Van Nostrand, who 00:00:14.120 --> 00:00:18.680 align:middle line:84% has since, I believe, May 2023 chaired the Massachusetts 00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:20.670 align:middle line:90% Department of Public Utilities. 00:00:20.670 --> 00:00:24.090 align:middle line:90% 00:00:24.090 --> 00:00:26.870 align:middle line:90% JAMES VAN NOSTRAND: Thank you. 00:00:26.870 --> 00:00:28.241 align:middle line:90% Thanks, everybody. 00:00:28.241 --> 00:00:30.830 align:middle line:90% 00:00:30.830 --> 00:00:33.980 align:middle line:84% So I really appreciate the opportunity to be here. 00:00:33.980 --> 00:00:36.020 align:middle line:84% As Andrew mentioned, I've been chair 00:00:36.020 --> 00:00:41.060 align:middle line:84% of the commission coming up on almost two years, May of 2023. 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:42.650 align:middle line:84% And one of the things I inherited 00:00:42.650 --> 00:00:45.260 align:middle line:84% was what was a pending proceeding in Massachusetts 00:00:45.260 --> 00:00:47.750 align:middle line:84% called the Future of Gas Proceeding, where 00:00:47.750 --> 00:00:49.760 align:middle line:84% we issued an order that's very relevant to what 00:00:49.760 --> 00:00:51.300 align:middle line:90% we've been talking about today. 00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:53.690 align:middle line:84% I wanted to provide a little bit of what 00:00:53.690 --> 00:00:55.160 align:middle line:90% I had to learn when I got here. 00:00:55.160 --> 00:00:58.170 align:middle line:84% I was a law professor in West Virginia University. 00:00:58.170 --> 00:00:59.630 align:middle line:84% You can imagine kind of the culture 00:00:59.630 --> 00:01:03.930 align:middle line:84% shock of going from a coal state to a wonderful blue state 00:01:03.930 --> 00:01:06.600 align:middle line:84% pursuing really aggressive clean-energy targets. 00:01:06.600 --> 00:01:08.660 align:middle line:84% But that provides the framework for what 00:01:08.660 --> 00:01:11.510 align:middle line:84% we're trying to do at the Department of Public Utilities 00:01:11.510 --> 00:01:13.460 align:middle line:84% and how network geothermal potentially 00:01:13.460 --> 00:01:16.345 align:middle line:90% fits into that whole message-- 00:01:16.345 --> 00:01:17.220 align:middle line:90% the whole initiative. 00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:19.080 align:middle line:84% So what's the statutory framework? 00:01:19.080 --> 00:01:19.922 align:middle line:90% What are we doing? 00:01:19.922 --> 00:01:22.130 align:middle line:84% And then a little bit about the current demonstration 00:01:22.130 --> 00:01:24.110 align:middle line:84% projects, but I think you've probably heard a lot about those 00:01:24.110 --> 00:01:24.960 align:middle line:90% already. 00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:27.230 align:middle line:84% So one of the things is the Global Warming Solutions 00:01:27.230 --> 00:01:30.870 align:middle line:84% Act of 2008 said we're going to be net zero by 2050, 00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:34.250 align:middle line:84% and then later on, another subsequent climate bill 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:36.800 align:middle line:84% says we're going to establish sector-specific emissions 00:01:36.800 --> 00:01:39.930 align:middle line:84% reduction targets for 2025 and 2030. 00:01:39.930 --> 00:01:44.250 align:middle line:84% So that was the Clean Energy and Climate Plan of June of 2022. 00:01:44.250 --> 00:01:46.380 align:middle line:84% And this is just an excerpt from that plan, 00:01:46.380 --> 00:01:51.320 align:middle line:84% but you can see starting off in 1990 and then to the far right 00:01:51.320 --> 00:01:53.940 align:middle line:90% is 2030, four various sectors. 00:01:53.940 --> 00:01:55.620 align:middle line:84% And you can see the building sector. 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:59.490 align:middle line:84% You can see that reduction that we need to achieve by 2030. 00:01:59.490 --> 00:02:04.580 align:middle line:84% And this down below just excerpts that building sector. 00:02:04.580 --> 00:02:07.120 align:middle line:84% So that's what we're striving for in terms of, 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.070 align:middle line:84% how does this network geothermal fit into? 00:02:09.070 --> 00:02:11.890 align:middle line:84% How does the transition to the natural-gas industry, what 00:02:11.890 --> 00:02:13.250 align:middle line:90% are we trying to accomplish? 00:02:13.250 --> 00:02:15.880 align:middle line:84% It's really trying to achieve those goals. 00:02:15.880 --> 00:02:18.370 align:middle line:84% They're now statutory, the Global Warming Solutions Act. 00:02:18.370 --> 00:02:21.920 align:middle line:84% And the fact that the CESP, the Clean Energy and Climate Plan, 00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:25.270 align:middle line:84% established these subsector targets pretty much 00:02:25.270 --> 00:02:29.120 align:middle line:84% says residential's got to get from 15.3 down to 7.8. 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:31.310 align:middle line:84% And for commercial and the total percent reduction, 00:02:31.310 --> 00:02:33.230 align:middle line:90% 47% reduction. 00:02:33.230 --> 00:02:35.360 align:middle line:84% And so that's what we're trying to achieve. 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.980 align:middle line:84% That's basically I see my job as a regulator is 00:02:38.980 --> 00:02:41.540 align:middle line:84% these policy decisions have been made by the legislature. 00:02:41.540 --> 00:02:46.600 align:middle line:84% My job is to implement them and try to make that happen. 00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:48.340 align:middle line:90% So the statutory framework-- 00:02:48.340 --> 00:02:51.440 align:middle line:84% I think Ania talked about this somewhat already, 00:02:51.440 --> 00:02:55.480 align:middle line:84% but where network geothermal comes into the 2021 climate 00:02:55.480 --> 00:02:59.650 align:middle line:84% bill expressly allowed the gas utilities to propose 00:02:59.650 --> 00:03:02.800 align:middle line:90% these pilot-scale projects. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.870 align:middle line:84% Another piece that came in the following year-- 00:03:05.870 --> 00:03:09.250 align:middle line:84% and you may be hearing a lot about GSEP, 00:03:09.250 --> 00:03:12.490 align:middle line:90% or Gas System Enhancement Plans. 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:14.320 align:middle line:84% The gas utilities in Massachusetts 00:03:14.320 --> 00:03:16.240 align:middle line:84% are spending a lot of money every year 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:18.130 align:middle line:84% to address what is referred to in the statute 00:03:18.130 --> 00:03:19.760 align:middle line:90% as leak-prone pipes. 00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:24.460 align:middle line:84% So back in 2014, the Gas Leaks Act was passed. 00:03:24.460 --> 00:03:28.150 align:middle line:84% That basically provided preferential rate recovery 00:03:28.150 --> 00:03:31.450 align:middle line:84% for costs incurred by the gas utilities 00:03:31.450 --> 00:03:34.250 align:middle line:84% to repair or address leak-prone pipe. 00:03:34.250 --> 00:03:37.040 align:middle line:84% The notion is these are safety issues. 00:03:37.040 --> 00:03:38.090 align:middle line:90% They're risk issues. 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:40.760 align:middle line:84% Obviously, we have a lot of old infrastructure in Massachusetts. 00:03:40.760 --> 00:03:45.610 align:middle line:84% So that expedited rate recovery sort of removes one of the tools 00:03:45.610 --> 00:03:49.990 align:middle line:84% that we have as regulators, which is called regulatory lag. 00:03:49.990 --> 00:03:52.240 align:middle line:84% Typically a utility will spend the money, 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.330 align:middle line:84% and then it won't recover it in rates for a while. 00:03:55.330 --> 00:03:58.300 align:middle line:84% Could be a year, two years, but that gap 00:03:58.300 --> 00:04:01.000 align:middle line:84% provides an incentive for cost containment. 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.360 align:middle line:84% Well, what the Gas Leaks Act did in 2014 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.690 align:middle line:84% was pretty much say we file your gas system enhancement 00:04:06.690 --> 00:04:09.160 align:middle line:90% plan with the DPU October 31. 00:04:09.160 --> 00:04:10.840 align:middle line:84% We have six months to go over it. 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.740 align:middle line:84% And then May 1, you begin recovering those costs in rates. 00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:17.430 align:middle line:84% So it provides this expedited rate treatment 00:04:17.430 --> 00:04:21.660 align:middle line:90% to address the leak-prone pipe. 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:22.960 align:middle line:90% So it's very controversial. 00:04:22.960 --> 00:04:26.370 align:middle line:84% We had a GSEP working group that met through a lot of 2023 00:04:26.370 --> 00:04:30.000 align:middle line:84% to figure out that Gas Leaks Act, having been passed 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.265 align:middle line:84% in 2014 focusing primarily on the safety issue and the risk 00:04:34.265 --> 00:04:36.640 align:middle line:84% issue, but then we have the climate bill that says, well, 00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:38.890 align:middle line:84% we need to achieve these greenhouse-gas reductions. 00:04:38.890 --> 00:04:41.250 align:middle line:84% Do we need to revisit the Gas Leaks 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:44.370 align:middle line:84% Act in light of the new focus on reducing 00:04:44.370 --> 00:04:45.700 align:middle line:90% greenhouse-gas emissions? 00:04:45.700 --> 00:04:47.830 align:middle line:84% And so a lot of work is revisiting that. 00:04:47.830 --> 00:04:49.990 align:middle line:84% We currently have those filings in front of us. 00:04:49.990 --> 00:04:52.920 align:middle line:84% We'll be issuing orders April 30 with respect 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.470 align:middle line:84% to gas system enhancement plans, beginning on May 1. 00:04:56.470 --> 00:04:59.370 align:middle line:84% But a big thing in how network geothermal fits into this 00:04:59.370 --> 00:05:00.785 align:middle line:90% is the 2022 climate bill-- 00:05:00.785 --> 00:05:02.410 align:middle line:84% I think Ania might have mentioned this, 00:05:02.410 --> 00:05:06.030 align:middle line:84% but we can basically-- one means of addressing 00:05:06.030 --> 00:05:09.510 align:middle line:84% the leak-prone pipe, rather than just replacing it with more gas 00:05:09.510 --> 00:05:13.440 align:middle line:84% pipe, is to replace it with a utility-scale, nonemitting, 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:16.560 align:middle line:84% renewable thermal energy infrastructure, a.k.a. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:18.070 align:middle line:90% geothermal network. 00:05:18.070 --> 00:05:23.160 align:middle line:84% So that is a big benefit in terms of we're 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.100 align:middle line:84% trying to avoid potentially stranded investment 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:28.950 align:middle line:84% by continuing to replace gas pipes with gas pipes that are 00:05:28.950 --> 00:05:30.820 align:middle line:90% going to last 50 or 60 years. 00:05:30.820 --> 00:05:34.170 align:middle line:84% This says, well, when you're spending that money on your GSEP 00:05:34.170 --> 00:05:38.160 align:middle line:84% plan, you can actually use a thermal energy network would 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.830 align:middle line:84% be one way of addressing the leak-prone pipe 00:05:40.830 --> 00:05:44.100 align:middle line:84% and avoiding that stranded cost by just putting more natural-gas 00:05:44.100 --> 00:05:45.730 align:middle line:90% infrastructure into the ground. 00:05:45.730 --> 00:05:50.430 align:middle line:84% And as Ania mentioned, the 2024 climate bill actually 00:05:50.430 --> 00:05:52.530 align:middle line:84% makes it specific that a gas company 00:05:52.530 --> 00:05:55.650 align:middle line:84% is allowed to get in the business of creating 00:05:55.650 --> 00:05:57.720 align:middle line:90% these thermal energy networks. 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:00.740 align:middle line:84% And then he also mentioned we're trying 00:06:00.740 --> 00:06:02.360 align:middle line:84% to address this obligation to serve, 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:03.960 align:middle line:90% very controversial in the state. 00:06:03.960 --> 00:06:07.710 align:middle line:84% But it's basically, as you can see Ania's chart, 00:06:07.710 --> 00:06:12.882 align:middle line:84% if you have a customer who does not want to give up their gas, 00:06:12.882 --> 00:06:15.590 align:middle line:84% how can you make the case, we're going to substitute this network 00:06:15.590 --> 00:06:17.610 align:middle line:90% geothermal for your gas? 00:06:17.610 --> 00:06:19.140 align:middle line:90% Very controversial. 00:06:19.140 --> 00:06:21.710 align:middle line:84% So they took a shot at addressing the obligation 00:06:21.710 --> 00:06:25.350 align:middle line:84% to serve, at least with respect to new hookups, 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:27.600 align:middle line:84% by allowing the consideration of adequate substitutes. 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:29.810 align:middle line:84% In other words, you might not have a right to gas service 00:06:29.810 --> 00:06:31.260 align:middle line:84% if there are adequate substitutes, 00:06:31.260 --> 00:06:33.440 align:middle line:90% the non-gas substitutes. 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:36.440 align:middle line:84% But we're still working our way through this. 00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:39.170 align:middle line:84% And then that eligible infrastructure investment 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:42.270 align:middle line:84% in these GSEP programs, it's not just replacement. 00:06:42.270 --> 00:06:44.090 align:middle line:84% It also includes retirement, which 00:06:44.090 --> 00:06:45.870 align:middle line:84% means we can actually take out the pipe. 00:06:45.870 --> 00:06:47.690 align:middle line:84% One way of addressing the leak-prone pipe 00:06:47.690 --> 00:06:49.320 align:middle line:84% is just to remove the leak-prone pipe 00:06:49.320 --> 00:06:50.730 align:middle line:90% because you're going to convert. 00:06:50.730 --> 00:06:53.500 align:middle line:84% You're going to convert customers to electrification, 00:06:53.500 --> 00:06:56.000 align:middle line:84% electrified solutions, whether it's ground-source heat pumps 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.550 align:middle line:90% or air-source heat pumps. 00:06:58.550 --> 00:07:02.250 align:middle line:84% So when I got here in May of 2023, I inherited this docket. 00:07:02.250 --> 00:07:05.310 align:middle line:84% It had been started in October of 2020, 00:07:05.310 --> 00:07:08.940 align:middle line:84% and I think the record had closed in October of 2022. 00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:10.940 align:middle line:84% And I thought, I think we need to probably issue 00:07:10.940 --> 00:07:15.800 align:middle line:84% an order in this docket, but it was basically, 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:19.200 align:middle line:84% what is going to be the pathway for the natural-gas utilities? 00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:21.230 align:middle line:84% How do we achieve these greenhouse-gas reduction 00:07:21.230 --> 00:07:23.090 align:middle line:84% targets, which the Global Warming Solutions 00:07:23.090 --> 00:07:26.880 align:middle line:84% Act and the 2021 climate bill require us to achieve? 00:07:26.880 --> 00:07:30.110 align:middle line:84% And so we issued this order basically setting forth 00:07:30.110 --> 00:07:31.890 align:middle line:90% this regulatory framework. 00:07:31.890 --> 00:07:34.310 align:middle line:84% And what we basically landed on was electrification 00:07:34.310 --> 00:07:36.450 align:middle line:84% is going to be the primary pathway, 00:07:36.450 --> 00:07:38.780 align:middle line:84% and that's air-source heat pumps, ground-source heat 00:07:38.780 --> 00:07:42.080 align:middle line:84% pumps, which includes the geothermal energy networks. 00:07:42.080 --> 00:07:44.870 align:middle line:84% And the way I described what we did in that order was basically 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:49.070 align:middle line:84% point out to this clean-energy framework 00:07:49.070 --> 00:07:51.120 align:middle line:84% that I had in the first couple of slides. 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.080 align:middle line:84% We just want to put the LDCs, the local gas distribution 00:07:54.080 --> 00:07:57.840 align:middle line:84% utilities, on a pathway to achieve net zero by 2050. 00:07:57.840 --> 00:08:03.170 align:middle line:84% And so part of that is, in a couple of months, April 1, 00:08:03.170 --> 00:08:06.710 align:middle line:84% each LDC has to file a climate compliance plan. 00:08:06.710 --> 00:08:08.260 align:middle line:84% In other words, show that you are 00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:11.090 align:middle line:84% on a pathway that's going to get you to net zero by 2050. 00:08:11.090 --> 00:08:13.210 align:middle line:84% You're going to achieve those sublimits 00:08:13.210 --> 00:08:14.930 align:middle line:90% that I had on that other slide. 00:08:14.930 --> 00:08:17.080 align:middle line:84% The other big thing we did in 2080 00:08:17.080 --> 00:08:21.880 align:middle line:84% was put the burden on the LDC, the local gas distribution 00:08:21.880 --> 00:08:22.700 align:middle line:90% companies. 00:08:22.700 --> 00:08:24.820 align:middle line:84% Before you make any additional investment 00:08:24.820 --> 00:08:26.690 align:middle line:84% in natural-gas distribution infrastructure, 00:08:26.690 --> 00:08:30.520 align:middle line:84% show that you considered a nongas pipeline alternative. 00:08:30.520 --> 00:08:32.809 align:middle line:84% And that could be-- it could be energy efficiency. 00:08:32.809 --> 00:08:35.260 align:middle line:84% It could be air-source heat pump, ground-source heat 00:08:35.260 --> 00:08:36.650 align:middle line:90% pump, network geothermal. 00:08:36.650 --> 00:08:40.190 align:middle line:84% But, basically, we want to avoid stranded costs. 00:08:40.190 --> 00:08:42.860 align:middle line:84% We want to avoid putting additional pipe in the ground. 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:44.690 align:middle line:90% So that was a big element. 00:08:44.690 --> 00:08:47.290 align:middle line:84% And right now, the natural-gas distribution companies, 00:08:47.290 --> 00:08:48.620 align:middle line:90% they're all working together. 00:08:48.620 --> 00:08:52.330 align:middle line:84% They're going to be filing with us an agreed-upon nongas 00:08:52.330 --> 00:08:55.010 align:middle line:84% pipeline, an NPA framework, because we 00:08:55.010 --> 00:08:57.010 align:middle line:84% need to start applying that as they're coming in 00:08:57.010 --> 00:08:59.710 align:middle line:84% and asking for new, additional investment. 00:08:59.710 --> 00:09:03.550 align:middle line:84% Have you consider an NPA, that Nongas Pipeline Alternative? 00:09:03.550 --> 00:09:06.440 align:middle line:84% And then the other thing that I think Ania mentioned, 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.950 align:middle line:84% so March 1, roughly a year from now, 00:09:09.950 --> 00:09:13.710 align:middle line:84% then we're requiring each LDC to file a targeted electrification 00:09:13.710 --> 00:09:14.210 align:middle line:90% project. 00:09:14.210 --> 00:09:16.660 align:middle line:84% In other words, try to take out/decommission 00:09:16.660 --> 00:09:19.540 align:middle line:84% a portion of a gas service territory in favor 00:09:19.540 --> 00:09:21.790 align:middle line:84% of air-source heat pump, ground-source heat 00:09:21.790 --> 00:09:25.122 align:middle line:84% pump, electric, or network geothermal. 00:09:25.122 --> 00:09:27.580 align:middle line:84% You have to work with your applicable electric distribution 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:29.080 align:middle line:84% company because in Massachusetts, we 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:31.610 align:middle line:84% have some utilities that are both gas and electric. 00:09:31.610 --> 00:09:34.510 align:middle line:84% Sometimes Eversource provides the electric 00:09:34.510 --> 00:09:36.320 align:middle line:84% and National Grid provides the gas. 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.240 align:middle line:90% You've got to come in together. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.540 align:middle line:84% National Grid actually filed a target electrification 00:09:40.540 --> 00:09:43.840 align:middle line:84% demonstration proposal in December of 2024 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.050 align:middle line:84% for the towns of Leominster and Winthrop, 00:09:46.050 --> 00:09:47.800 align:middle line:84% where they're going to try to decommission 00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:49.175 align:middle line:84% part of the gas service territory 00:09:49.175 --> 00:09:51.290 align:middle line:90% in favor of electrification. 00:09:51.290 --> 00:09:57.430 align:middle line:84% But that's going to be a big part of how we manage this gas 00:09:57.430 --> 00:10:00.600 align:middle line:84% transition is the climate compliance plans and the role 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:04.480 align:middle line:84% that these demonstration projects are going to play. 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.540 align:middle line:84% And that's where the obligation-to-serve piece 00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:08.850 align:middle line:84% is so challenging because when you look at the chart 00:10:08.850 --> 00:10:12.423 align:middle line:84% that Ania had, all it takes is one customer who says, 00:10:12.423 --> 00:10:14.340 align:middle line:84% I don't want to give up my gas, and you're not 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:15.632 align:middle line:90% able to take out that. 00:10:15.632 --> 00:10:17.340 align:middle line:84% You're not able to decommission the pipe, 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:19.890 align:middle line:84% and the numbers just don't work all that well if you 00:10:19.890 --> 00:10:21.160 align:middle line:90% can't decommission the pipe. 00:10:21.160 --> 00:10:23.460 align:middle line:84% So that's why states are struggling with, 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:30.000 align:middle line:84% how can we substitute basically another means 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.860 align:middle line:84% of providing the essential service of heat 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:35.040 align:middle line:90% instead of natural gas? 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:39.540 align:middle line:84% So one of the things that it's helpful along the lines 00:10:39.540 --> 00:10:42.900 align:middle line:84% of Ania's discussion of the demonstration projects-- 00:10:42.900 --> 00:10:45.240 align:middle line:84% because the 2021 climate bill specifically 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.940 align:middle line:84% authorizes the gas companies to file with us 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:51.540 align:middle line:84% demonstration projects, proposals, and it 00:10:51.540 --> 00:10:52.730 align:middle line:90% lays out some criteria. 00:10:52.730 --> 00:10:54.730 align:middle line:84% So when we look at these demonstration projects, 00:10:54.730 --> 00:10:56.520 align:middle line:84% when Framingham comes in and when Eversource comes in 00:10:56.520 --> 00:10:58.830 align:middle line:84% with the Framingham project and National Grid comes in 00:10:58.830 --> 00:11:01.750 align:middle line:84% for the Lowell and Franklin Fields projects, 00:11:01.750 --> 00:11:03.210 align:middle line:84% these are the criteria that we are 00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:05.880 align:middle line:84% going to apply in determining the rate treatment, the rate 00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:09.300 align:middle line:90% recovery of those costs. 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:10.642 align:middle line:90% Pretty straightforward. 00:11:10.642 --> 00:11:12.600 align:middle line:84% Must have reasonable likelihood of facilitating 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:13.630 align:middle line:90% substantial reductions. 00:11:13.630 --> 00:11:17.070 align:middle line:84% That goes back to achieving those greenhouse-gas limits. 00:11:17.070 --> 00:11:19.680 align:middle line:84% We don't want you to blend in hydrogen and RNG. 00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:22.120 align:middle line:84% And we need to use a third-party evaluation. 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.810 align:middle line:84% And then we consider the reasonableness 00:11:24.810 --> 00:11:26.170 align:middle line:90% of the size, scope, and scale. 00:11:26.170 --> 00:11:28.775 align:middle line:84% In other words, do the benefits justify the proposed cost? 00:11:28.775 --> 00:11:31.110 align:middle line:84% And another key element is the calculation 00:11:31.110 --> 00:11:32.970 align:middle line:84% of benefits must include the calculations 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:35.340 align:middle line:84% of the social value of greenhouse-gas emissions 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:35.860 align:middle line:90% reduction. 00:11:35.860 --> 00:11:38.520 align:middle line:84% That's going to be a good way of, when you're 00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:40.067 align:middle line:84% looking at those costs and benefits, 00:11:40.067 --> 00:11:41.650 align:middle line:84% you're going to put a price on carbon, 00:11:41.650 --> 00:11:42.570 align:middle line:84% basically, the carbon that you're 00:11:42.570 --> 00:11:44.880 align:middle line:84% avoiding by taking out that natural-gas infrastructure 00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:47.350 align:middle line:84% and replacing it with something else. 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:49.220 align:middle line:84% So real briefly, I think we're going 00:11:49.220 --> 00:11:50.970 align:middle line:84% to hear a lot about the Framingham project 00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:52.510 align:middle line:90% that Eversource has done. 00:11:52.510 --> 00:11:55.707 align:middle line:84% There's a phase II that was awarded a preliminary grant, 00:11:55.707 --> 00:11:58.040 align:middle line:84% I think, by the Department of Energy, which is caught up 00:11:58.040 --> 00:12:02.000 align:middle line:84% in all this stuff that's going on in Washington, DC, right now. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:06.030 align:middle line:84% So that was approved in the Eversource rate case from 2020, 00:12:06.030 --> 00:12:07.700 align:middle line:90% DPU 19-120. 00:12:07.700 --> 00:12:10.758 align:middle line:84% And then National Grid had a separate proceeding where-- 00:12:10.758 --> 00:12:12.300 align:middle line:84% this is before I got here, of course, 00:12:12.300 --> 00:12:13.865 align:middle line:84% but authorizing up to $15.6 million 00:12:13.865 --> 00:12:17.270 align:middle line:84% for four network geothermal projects, the first of which 00:12:17.270 --> 00:12:18.240 align:middle line:90% was in Lowell. 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.450 align:middle line:84% And I think National Grid has announced that they 00:12:20.450 --> 00:12:22.460 align:middle line:90% are terminating that project. 00:12:22.460 --> 00:12:25.560 align:middle line:84% I think just the level of participation wasn't as great. 00:12:25.560 --> 00:12:27.510 align:middle line:84% The numbers didn't work very well. 00:12:27.510 --> 00:12:29.990 align:middle line:84% But they've also filed for the Franklin Field Apartments 00:12:29.990 --> 00:12:31.530 align:middle line:84% with the Boston Housing Authority, 00:12:31.530 --> 00:12:34.345 align:middle line:84% and so that project is moving forward. 00:12:34.345 --> 00:12:35.970 align:middle line:84% And then we'll be looking-- like I say, 00:12:35.970 --> 00:12:37.260 align:middle line:84% we'll be applying those criteria. 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.093 align:middle line:84% Then we consider the rate recovery treatment 00:12:39.093 --> 00:12:41.207 align:middle line:90% of these demonstration projects. 00:12:41.207 --> 00:12:43.040 align:middle line:84% So with that, I'm happy to answer questions. 00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:46.390 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:12:46.390 --> 00:12:58.000 align:middle line:90%